{"error":false,"id":["157772"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":157772,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157772","日期":"2024-12-04","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-23-13","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":13,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-12-04T10:14:10+08:00","結束時間":"2024-12-04T10:24:34+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:24","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd820836017baf84646acccbcca1a359a53f99ce194948cb68dbf16ab1366b725e1e081535ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林俊憲","委員發言時間":"10:14:10 - 10:24:34","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.09846875000000001,"end":3.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.059093750000002,"end":9.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9.71721875,"end":10.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10.645343750000002,"end":21.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.05721875,"end":21.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21.63096875,"end":28.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":29.96721875,"end":32.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":32.71784375,"end":34.759718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":35.41784375,"end":38.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":38.72534375,"end":39.704093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":40.68284375,"end":41.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":42.58971875,"end":45.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.80846875,"end":68.84721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":50.132843750000006,"end":50.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":59.16096875,"end":60.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.25221875,"end":77.70659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":77.36909375,"end":79.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":80.10284375,"end":80.22096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":80.86221875000001,"end":84.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.45659375000001,"end":85.97534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":85.31721875000001,"end":88.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.67534375000001,"end":97.09596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":89.02971875,"end":89.55284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":89.99159375,"end":91.00409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":93.63659375,"end":94.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":96.45471875000001,"end":103.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":103.64346875000001,"end":104.53784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.70659375000001,"end":113.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":113.46471875,"end":116.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.87346875,"end":120.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":119.38784375,"end":120.56909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":120.67034375,"end":120.70409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":121.05846875,"end":124.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.36159375000001,"end":129.73221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":129.73221875000002,"end":132.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.74909375000001,"end":129.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.88784375,"end":140.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":140.65034375000002,"end":141.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":142.08471875,"end":144.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":145.12221875,"end":151.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.85596875000002,"end":148.29471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.37034375000002,"end":153.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":153.15471875,"end":153.77909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":154.53846875000002,"end":161.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":161.65971875,"end":162.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":162.79034375,"end":162.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.82409375,"end":163.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":163.34721875,"end":170.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":171.10971875,"end":172.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":172.91534375,"end":177.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":177.72471875000002,"end":182.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":181.69034375,"end":185.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":182.93909375,"end":183.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.09909375,"end":185.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":185.82471875000002,"end":193.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":191.03909375,"end":198.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.90284375000002,"end":204.77534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":204.77534375000002,"end":206.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":207.15471875,"end":210.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.06159375000001,"end":210.56346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.18784375,"end":219.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":219.28784375,"end":219.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":219.35534375,"end":224.63721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":219.60846875000001,"end":220.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":224.94096875000002,"end":229.15971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.21471875,"end":230.98221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":229.68284375000002,"end":231.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":232.06221875000003,"end":237.22596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.02409375000002,"end":233.41221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.12471875000003,"end":238.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":238.06971875000002,"end":241.79909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.05659375000002,"end":241.95096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":241.95096875000002,"end":242.76096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":242.22096875000003,"end":242.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":242.82846875,"end":244.44846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":242.91284375,"end":244.07721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.48221875000002,"end":249.94971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":248.09346875000003,"end":248.92034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":249.94971875000002,"end":260.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.37409375000004,"end":263.19659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":263.19659375000003,"end":264.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.71971875,"end":264.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":266.36909375,"end":267.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.11971875,"end":269.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.44034375,"end":271.63409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":270.33471875000004,"end":271.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":271.63409375000003,"end":274.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":275.85284375000003,"end":288.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.36596875000004,"end":286.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":289.38659375000003,"end":294.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":294.39846875,"end":294.70221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":294.97221875,"end":295.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":296.60909375,"end":298.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":298.98846875000004,"end":306.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":306.05909375000005,"end":306.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.09284375000004,"end":306.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.49784375,"end":307.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":307.25721875,"end":307.29096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":307.89846875,"end":307.91534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.91534375000003,"end":308.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":308.03346875,"end":313.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.16346875,"end":315.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":314.37846875,"end":319.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":320.26784375,"end":328.90784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.38596875,"end":321.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.17909375,"end":321.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":330.27471875000003,"end":336.63659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":337.58159375,"end":338.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":339.03284375000004,"end":340.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":340.12971875,"end":341.00721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":341.68221875,"end":343.15034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":344.02784375000005,"end":345.25971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":345.47909375,"end":348.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":348.11159375,"end":350.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":350.42346875000004,"end":352.66784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":353.24159375000005,"end":353.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":354.92909375000005,"end":356.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":357.93284375,"end":358.50659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":360.16034375000004,"end":360.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.59471875,"end":362.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":361.93221875,"end":364.17659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":364.46346875,"end":366.13409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":367.39971875000003,"end":367.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":368.73284375000003,"end":370.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.17971875,"end":372.19221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":371.19659375000003,"end":373.49159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.87971875000005,"end":378.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":377.77784375000005,"end":379.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":379.87034375,"end":381.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":381.77721875000003,"end":381.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.79409375,"end":382.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":383.48159375,"end":386.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.62034375,"end":387.37971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":387.41346875000005,"end":390.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.44284375,"end":389.72534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":390.75471875000005,"end":391.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":391.66596875000005,"end":394.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":395.05784375,"end":397.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":396.22221875,"end":399.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":399.19221875000005,"end":400.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":400.13721875000005,"end":404.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.76534375,"end":406.63409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":406.63409375000003,"end":417.18096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":416.57346875,"end":422.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":422.04096875000005,"end":429.17909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.44534375,"end":427.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":429.12846875,"end":430.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":430.30971875,"end":430.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":430.96784375000004,"end":431.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":431.20409375,"end":432.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.09409375,"end":433.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":434.07284375,"end":435.08534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":435.01784375000005,"end":435.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":435.08534375000005,"end":436.41846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":436.41846875000005,"end":436.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":437.43096875000003,"end":437.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":439.23659375000005,"end":441.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":442.17284375,"end":446.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":447.47159375,"end":448.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":449.36159375000005,"end":449.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":450.42471875,"end":454.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":456.34784375000004,"end":458.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":458.89596875,"end":459.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":459.09846875000005,"end":467.53596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":467.53596875000005,"end":467.83971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":468.14346875,"end":469.22346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":469.86471875,"end":470.79284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":470.37096875000003,"end":471.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":471.70409375,"end":472.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":472.59846875000005,"end":474.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":476.09159375,"end":476.85096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":478.31909375000004,"end":480.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.32284375,"end":481.33971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":481.33971875000003,"end":483.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":484.37721875000005,"end":485.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":486.30096875000004,"end":487.17846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.17846875000004,"end":487.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":488.69721875000005,"end":488.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.73096875000005,"end":495.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.46409375,"end":496.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.62846875,"end":498.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.56909375000004,"end":498.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":498.58596875,"end":498.65346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":498.97409375,"end":499.56471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.76721875000004,"end":501.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":501.82596875,"end":502.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.85534375000003,"end":503.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":503.12534375,"end":504.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":504.99846875000003,"end":506.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.01096875,"end":506.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.22596875000005,"end":508.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.55909375000005,"end":508.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":508.57596875,"end":509.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.82909375,"end":508.91346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.96409375,"end":509.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":511.32659375000003,"end":517.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":518.04284375,"end":518.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":518.92034375,"end":522.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":523.37534375,"end":526.5647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":527.72909375,"end":531.3234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":532.43721875,"end":532.9265937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":533.11221875,"end":533.6015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":534.0403437500001,"end":535.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":536.31846875,"end":539.4740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":540.3347187500001,"end":545.2622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":546.1397187499999,"end":547.4053437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":548.31659375,"end":549.4978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":549.6159687500001,"end":550.7634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":550.0209687500001,"end":551.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":551.94471875,"end":555.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":555.1003437500001,"end":557.2434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":558.4753437500001,"end":561.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":562.49159375,"end":569.3090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":569.69721875,"end":574.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":574.89471875,"end":577.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":578.35409375,"end":588.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":588.2765937500001,"end":589.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":590.65596875,"end":598.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":599.59971875,"end":607.9865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":608.2397187500001,"end":609.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":610.41659375,"end":615.5803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.79971875,"end":615.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":615.81659375,"end":616.2722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.91784375,"end":623.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":619.0903437500001,"end":619.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":621.30096875,"end":621.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":621.43596875,"end":621.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":621.97596875,"end":622.27971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.029,"end":3.191,"text":"謝謝主席本時邀請我們數法部黃部長黃部長委員好部長好部長這個就是我們這個1111的簡訊之前有媒體有報導是否被破空其實是詐騙我們應該是沒有被突破系統沒有但是呢有這種1111的假訊息"},{"start":30.011,"end":44.832,"text":"那這個事情媒體一報導以後那民眾對11的公信力信任度一定會降低那我請教那現在案子有沒有破啊我現在收到111的簡訊我可以點進去嗎"},{"start":47.561,"end":67.482,"text":"這個案子本身是被破一個歹徒都被逮到了而且他用的設備是大陸的設備那所以我們這個第一個就是我們以後對這種設備要做嚴加管理所以以後不會有啦那我現在收到1111可以點進去嗎報告委員我現在是講說一會收到1111簡訊你要看那個簡訊因為簡訊都會有個連結"},{"start":69.324,"end":78.101,"text":"那個連結一定是一個legal就是合法的一個連結比如說gov.tw所以在點進去以前還是要看一下那個我看那個連結何必一"},{"start":80.926,"end":104.003,"text":"政府設立這樣11的簡訊就是方便民眾辨識嗎?對,辨識以後但是...你一般老人哪看得懂什麼現在先會點gov點...哪看得懂?對,就是這個單是多重...第一個我們...那你不是走回頭路?對,沒有。以前就是因為連結很難辨識,所以呢政府就用個11,看到11你就放心點進去,不會是詐騙。"},{"start":105.084,"end":124.438,"text":"那以後我們會有網路詐騙通報查詢網﹚也許以後民眾在看到這個疫情訊息﹚現在看到11可以填進去行不行啊﹚現在目前應該是﹚我覺得很慘欸政府推11花多少錢我記得那個預算好像一千多萬"},{"start":125.387,"end":127.727,"text":"所以手機如果有2G功能要把它關掉"},{"start":154.588,"end":176.691,"text":"有沒有抓到那個詐騙局長 聘請他當顧問 你剛剛問他 什麼東西你沒有辦法騙過去 給他趕趕啦 請他教我們好不好 要不然你發明一個新東西花那麼多錢 他買一個報費這個幾乎不用錢啦 二局的那個機率台現在幾乎是要報費的東西啦 他拿進來可以改那個電話號碼 就把它改成111就騙了嘛"},{"start":177.942,"end":206.13,"text":"通常是10年前的手機才會有2G的功能啦所以我想這個因為現在台灣是沒有2G網路也沒有2G手機了啦那他拿2G的基地台進來什麼狀況下可以入侵可以騙到我們的因為現在我們是4G、5G網路嘛對 如果你的手機有2G的接收功能你會收到這個簡訊但是現在絕大部分手機這剛剛講就10年前手機也許有2G功能現在新的手機絕對沒有2G功能所以你新買的手機那如果網路不穩定的時候"},{"start":207.55,"end":230.82,"text":"他這樣傳也是可能侵入喔因為那個剛剛講這個這種是單方向的認證以後從3G以後都是雙向認證也就是說那個基地站跟手機會做出會有一個協議嘛他們就會互相認證這個方法在3G以後的手機是沒有用的就2G還有嘛那2G現在台灣有多少用戶啊就有這種手機要多少差不多知不知道"},{"start":232.953,"end":260.378,"text":"你的意思是說你手裡拿的是很舊式的手機或是有2G功能才可能被這種騙嗎?是不是這樣?所以潛在的受害者多少?如果今天買的手機是最近才買的或是這一兩年才買的你就不用擔心?就不用擔心那你要跟民眾說明清楚啊所以我剛問你第一個問題你是身為部長你也不太敢回答我問你看到111的訊息能不能點進去?"},{"start":261.445,"end":264.309,"text":"你如果說叫民眾在點進去以前再看一下連結"},{"start":275.899,"end":276.099,"text":"林俊憲"},{"start":297.297,"end":319.515,"text":"拜託教大家走回頭路啦對啦那再來就是剛委員有講的就是如果手機是比較新的手機是不用擔心這種假的假的我的意思就是這樣嘛你如果大家知道說為什麼政府的東西是沒有被破解政府的系統沒有被破解他是去拿一個很舊的基地台那針對一些拿"},{"start":320.536,"end":321.017,"text":"林俊憲"},{"start":337.642,"end":365.611,"text":"那還是會有吧那市面上現在要再販售新的附帶二級手機的應該是這個現在二級手機應該是沒有了這個你要跟NCC去了解一下要不然你一一一一整體信用崩盤那怎麼辦因為你有很多政策你有很多部會現在還每天在傳"},{"start":367.415,"end":368.796,"text":"所以現在11還可未用啊?"},{"start":395.134,"end":396.775,"text":"新版的手機根本不會放2G的功能"},{"start":422.233,"end":448.336,"text":"如果像我這種新的手機沒有辦法接受2G的訊息他就收不到這種簡訊嗎?是這樣嗎?對你確定嗎?確定那114還可以用喔?一旦都可以用基本上可以用喔?可以可以如果新手機沒問題我覺得這個要趕快發布會去解決了要不然你用花這麼多錢用了這麼大力宣傳的東西如果公信力崩盤你知道你一拆又重來了"},{"start":450.543,"end":473.708,"text":"因為今天有委員在關心數位發展部發生那個霸凌事件這事情真相你們要去調查嘛那部長也答覆說啊數位發展部職場霸凌防治及處理作業要點你會依據這個來做規定嗎對啊你這個要點在哪裡啊要點在你根本沒有這個要點你也不會說啦人事處說明你這個要點你有這個要點嗎"},{"start":481.545,"end":509.151,"text":"報告委跟委員有在哪邊網絡上找不到各部位都有就你們事務部沒有有我們有跟委員報告我們是今年11月28修訂今年多少今年11月28自訂還是修訂那個修訂所以之前就有了有那你放在什麼地方還不能在等一下借我看一下好OK我們等另外喔謝謝"},{"start":511.543,"end":538.763,"text":"你數話部齁其實各部都有一個反霸凌預算我不曉得大家你數話部沒有編列你知不知道反霸凌預算因為這種反霸凌啦其實不是現在才發生啦以前都有啦所以他很多單位都有反霸凌的甚至還有課程他還有一定的預算你要去執行要去教育只有你數話部沒有因為你說過啦你要設立一個申訴調查小組嘛"},{"start":540.37,"end":555.474,"text":"對不對?他是無極職啦但是他你要寫報告書還要出席費用等等喔各部會幾乎都有只有...只有你數位發展部沒有啦但你有在單位有啦放在一般行政裡面這個預算你不要在那邊亂講啦你那個說明欄就沒有啦我現在查起來喔你像那個"},{"start":563.254,"end":589.222,"text":"資安署有啦,結果資安署有啦我查一下你各部的預算你當部長的自己去了解一下你就說你基本上你各部會可是個新單位所以你有一些事項業務你並沒有很完整的納進來你有很多單位你那個數位發展部本身沒有反霸凌的預算這次大家質疑這個數位產業發展署也沒有啦但你資安署有啦"},{"start":590.694,"end":590.714,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":611.176,"end":622.087,"text":"所謂的第三方,那你可能就有需要一些資助幹麻。對,報告委有編但是沒有說明,所以有說明我們會...請你了解一下好不好。好。好,謝謝部長。謝謝委員。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":291,"blocks":[["林委員俊憲：（10時14分）謝謝主席，本席邀請數發部黃部長。"],["主席：黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["主席：部長好。部長，關於111的簡訊，之前有媒體報導它是否被破功，這其實是詐騙，我們應該是沒有被突破啦！"],["黃部長彥男：對，系統沒有。"],["林委員俊憲：但是有這種111的假訊息，這個事情經過媒體報導以後，民眾對111的公信力、信任度一定會降低，那我請教，現在這個案子有沒有破？我現在收到111的簡訊可以點進去嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：這個案子本身被破了，而且歹徒都被逮到，而且他用的設備是大陸的設備，所以我們以後對這種設備要嚴加管理，然後再……"],["林委員俊憲：所以以後不會有了？那我現在收到111簡訊可以點進去嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我現在是講，even收到111簡訊，你要看那個簡訊，因為簡訊都會有一個連結，那個連結一定是一個legal（合法的）連結，比如說.gov.tw，在點進去以前還是要看一下……"],["林委員俊憲：那我看那個連結，何必111？政府設立這樣111的簡訊就是方便民眾辨識嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：對，辨識以後……"],["林委員俊憲：一般老人哪看得懂什麼.gov？"],["黃部長彥男：對，這個是多重……"],["林委員俊憲：那不是又走回頭路？"],["黃部長彥男：沒有，報告委員……"],["林委員俊憲：以前就是因為連結很難辨識，所以政府就用一個111，看到111就放心點進去，不會是詐騙。"],["黃部長彥男：對，我們剛剛講的就是以後會有網路詐騙通報查詢網，也許以後民眾再看到這個簡訊不要去……"],["林委員俊憲：那現在看到111可不可以點進去？行不行啊？"],["黃部長彥男：現在這個應該是……"],["林委員俊憲：我覺得很慘，政府推111花多少錢？我記得那個預算好像一千多萬。"],["王司長誠明：大概兩百多萬建置，然後八百多萬是做資安的防護。"],["林委員俊憲：對，一共花一千多萬嘛，每年還有200萬的維護費耶。"],["王司長誠明：每年沒有。我們現在就是在共同供應契約上面，等於機關採購的金額才會當作維護的費用。"],["林委員俊憲：所以這個詐騙集團很厲害啦，我們的4G、5G他們沒辦法突破？"],["黃部長彥男：沒辦法。"],["林委員俊憲：所以他去買一個2G舊的基地臺進來……"],["黃部長彥男：所以手機如果有2G功能的要把它關掉。"],["林委員俊憲：你們有沒有抓到詐騙集團，要不要聘請它當顧問？乾脆問它什麼東西沒有辦法騙過去，叫它教我們啦，請它教我們好不好？要不然你發明一個新東西花那麼多錢，它買一個報廢機幾乎不用錢啊，2G的基地臺幾乎是要報廢的東西，它拿進來可以改電話號碼，對不對？把它改成111就騙了嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：通常是10年前的手機才會有2G的功能，所以我想這一個……"],["林委員俊憲：因為現在臺灣沒有2G網路，也沒有2G手機了。"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["林委員俊憲：那它拿2G的基地臺進來，什麼狀況下可以入侵，可以騙到我們的……因為現在我們是4G、5G的網路嘛。"],["黃部長彥男：對，如果你的手機有2G的接收功能，你會收到這個簡訊，但是現在絕大部分手機，就是剛剛講的，10年前的手機也許有2G功能，現在新的手機絕對沒有2G功能，所以新買的手機……"],["林委員俊憲：如果網路不穩定的時候，他這樣傳也是可能侵入囉？"],["黃部長彥男：因為剛剛講的，這種就是單方向的認證，從3G以後都是雙向認證，也就是那個基地站跟手機會做……"],["林委員俊憲：會有一個協議嘛，他們會有一個互相認證。"],["黃部長彥男：所以這個方法在3G以後的手機是沒有用的。"],["林委員俊憲：就2G還有嘛，那2G現在臺灣有多少用戶啊？有這種手機的人還有多少？知不知道？"],["黃部長彥男：拿舊手機的……"],["林委員俊憲：你的意思是說，你手裡拿的是很舊式的手機……"],["黃部長彥男：或者有2G功能的。"],["林委員俊憲：有2G功能的才可能被這種騙，是不是這樣？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["林委員俊憲：所以潛在的受害者多少？"],["黃部長彥男：如果手機是最近才買的，或者是這一、兩年才買的……"],["林委員俊憲：就不用擔心？"],["黃部長彥男：對，就不用擔心。"],["林委員俊憲：那你要跟民眾說明清楚啊，所以我剛問你第一個問題，你身為部長也不太敢回答，我問你看到111的訊息能不能點進去？"],["黃部長彥男：如果是新的手機可以。"],["林委員俊憲：可以喔？如果被騙怎麼辦？新的手機就不會被騙了？"],["黃部長彥男：111才是安全的。"],["林委員俊憲：如果叫民眾在點進去以前再看一下連結，懂的人就懂，不懂的人……因為當時政府大力宣傳，花很多錢宣傳，就是跟人家說，認111就可以點進去看……"],["黃部長彥男：可信任的一個……"],["林委員俊憲：就不用怕啦，不用怕被騙，但你現在說沒有，現在照部長你今天說的，還要再檢查一下網址，那等於又叫大家走回頭路，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：剛剛委員有講的，如果比較新的手機是不用擔心有這種假的……"],["林委員俊憲：我的意思就是這樣嘛，你讓大家知道為什麼這個111會……政府的東西是沒有被破解的。"],["黃部長彥男：對，政府的系統沒有被破解過。"],["林委員俊憲：它是去拿一個很舊的基地臺，針對一些拿舊手機的人，還有2G接收功能的手機才會接到嘛？聽說它騙了三百多萬啊！這樣也很划算耶，那一臺才多少啊？那個報廢了，我看一臺基地臺搞不好幾乎不用錢，但還是會有吧？市面上現在還有在販售新的、附帶2G的手機嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：現在2G手機應該是沒有了。"],["林委員俊憲：今天NCC沒有人列席，這個你要去跟NCC瞭解一下，不然111整體信用崩盤，那怎麼辦？"],["黃部長彥男：這個是……"],["林委員俊憲：因為有很多政策，很多部會現在還每天在傳，對不對？所以你要趕快去瞭解，看什麼樣的人是潛在、可能的受害者。"],["黃部長彥男：就是還有2G功能手機的人會是可能的受害者。"],["林委員俊憲：我不知道多還少啦！現在市面上販售的……"],["黃部長彥男：沒有2G的。"],["林委員俊憲：附設2G接收功能的還有沒有？"],["黃部長彥男：應該沒有了。"],["林委員俊憲：應該沒有了吧？"],["黃部長彥男：沒有了。"],["林委員俊憲：你要不要找NCC瞭解一下？"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["林委員俊憲：所以現在111還可不可以用？"],["黃部長彥男：111當然可以用。"],["林委員俊憲：還可以用？"],["黃部長彥男：它是一個信任……"],["林委員俊憲：使用新的手機不用怕就對了？"],["黃部長彥男：新的不用怕，對！"],["林委員俊憲：被騙的這幾個受害者都是拿舊手機的嗎？有沒有去瞭解一下？"],["黃部長彥男：能夠接到這個訊息……"],["林委員俊憲：因為也有專家說，有可能在現行的4G、5G網路不穩定，就是當你接收不到4G、5G訊號的時候，像這種2G的，它如果在當地亂傳，有可能會接收到。"],["黃部長彥男：那是比較舊版的手機，新版的手機根本不會放2G的功能。"],["林委員俊憲：如果像我這種新的手機，沒有辦法接收2G的訊息，它就收不到這種簡訊，是這樣嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：是。"],["林委員俊憲：你確定嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：確定。"],["林委員俊憲：所以111還可以用囉？"],["黃部長彥男：111當然可以用。"],["林委員俊憲：基本上可以用嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：可以。如果是新手機，沒問題。"],["林委員俊憲：我覺得這個要趕快跨部會去解決，不然你們花這麼多錢，用這麼大力去宣傳的東西，如果公信力崩盤，一切都要重來。","另外，有委員在關心數發部發生的那個霸凌事件，這件事情的真相你們要去調查吧？"],["黃部長彥男：是的。"],["林委員俊憲：部長曾經表示，你們會依據數位發展部職場霸凌防治及處理作業要點的規定來做處理嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：是。"],["林委員俊憲：這個要點在哪裡？"],["黃部長彥男：要點在……"],["林委員俊憲：根本沒有這個要點！你不要胡說八道！"],["黃部長彥男：我請人事處來說明。"],["林委員俊憲：你們有這個要點嗎？"],["莫處長永榮：報告召委跟委員，有！"],["林委員俊憲：在哪邊？網路上找不到！各部會都有，只有你們數發部沒有！"],["莫處長永榮：有，我們有。跟委員報告，我們是今年11月28日修訂……"],["林委員俊憲：今年什麼時候？"],["莫處長永榮：今年11月28日。"],["林委員俊憲：制定還是修訂？"],["莫處長永榮：修訂。"],["林委員俊憲：所以之前就有了？"],["莫處長永榮：有！"],["林委員俊憲：你們放在什麼地方？怎麼沒人知道！等一下借我看一下。"],["莫處長永榮：好，謝謝委員。"],["林委員俊憲：另外，其實各部會都有一個反霸凌預算，可是你們數發部沒有編列，部長知不知道？"],["黃部長彥男：反霸凌預算？"],["林委員俊憲：因為這種事情不是現在才發生，以前就有，所以很多單位都有反霸凌的預算，甚至還有課程，有一定的預算，要去執行、要去教育，只有你們數發部沒有！你說過，你要設立一個申訴調查小組，對不對？它的成員是無給職，但是他們要寫報告書、要出席費用等等，各部會幾乎都有，只有你們數發部沒有，但是你們有些單位有啦！"],["黃部長彥男：這個預算放在「一般行政」裡面。"],["林委員俊憲：你不要在那邊胡說八道，你們預算書的說明欄就沒有啊！","我查了你們各單位的預算，只有資安署有啦！你當部長的，自己去瞭解一下。"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["林委員俊憲：你們可能是一個新單位，所以有一些業務並沒有完整地納進來，你們數發部本身沒有反霸凌的預算啦！這次被大家質疑的數位產業發展署也沒有，但是資安署有啦！你去看一下資安署預算怎麼編，你如果有編反霸凌預算的話，通常在說明欄一定有點出來。這些錢就是在萬一有發生的時候，要撰寫專案報告，會產生一些費用啦！要聘請一些人來調查，如果是外面的人，所謂的第三方，可能就需要一些支出。"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我們有編，但是沒有說明，以後我們會加在說明欄裡面。"],["林委員俊憲：請你瞭解一下好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["林委員俊憲：謝謝部長。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝委員。"],["主席（廖委員先翔代）：接下來請魯明哲召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}