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後花吧"},{"start":62.534,"end":90.206,"text":"就我們目前業務單位回報說這個25淑女的事件當時的這個案子後來高雄市政府已經主動撤回了對主動撤回嘛但是這個是不是在整個流程整個程序上非常有爭議你認為這個是不是有爭議的事情我已經找出兩次的會議紀錄就舊安基金的把關機制其實我們現在已經開始檢討了部長我想請問一下我也認為這裡面是有一些機制需要強化的狀況把關機不管是事前或事後"},{"start":90.546,"end":104.566,"text":"是部長那我想請問一下那個在這個運用辦法裡面你知道救安基金有哪一些用途嗎?這個移工相關的管理的需求然後提升促進國民就業提升勞動福祉"},{"start":106.508,"end":121.059,"text":"好,他總共有12條,他總共有12條。在舊府法裡面是3個。對,但是在這個辦法裡面,113年的3月11號的修正日期的這個辦法裡面,就案基金的收支保管及運用辦法他總共有12條。是。"},{"start":122.02,"end":150.575,"text":"第一個辦理加強實施職業訓練阿等等的總共12條第12條的部分呢就是其他有關支出我想請問其他有關支出的內涵是什麼可以辦演唱會嗎可以買咖啡嗎還是第二可以嗎跟委員報告這個部分所謂的相關一定是跟前面11款有相關的是很好這個大法官是這樣解釋沒有錯所以可以嗎我剛問這些這些不合理的用法你認為可以嗎部長"},{"start":153.447,"end":176.442,"text":"我們在檢視下來確實覺得有部分的項目是不合理的應該是非常不合理吧當然完全是在這個法之外了吧所以我其實已經要求已經我們已經要求這部分的檢討了所以剛剛這個講得很好其實12款其實這12條應該分兩個層次嘛第一個是不是符合就業安定目的第二個如果符合的情況之下他的手段跟方法是不是適當"},{"start":177.847,"end":204.23,"text":"那其他有關之處其實過去大法官有解釋大法官有解釋嘛就是認為其他用途並不是空白支票必須跟前面11項有這個各款相當這是大法官的見解沒錯嘛對那但是現在看起來這個救安基金就變成所謂勞動部的小金庫甚至是民進黨派系的小金庫我想問一下部長有幾個訴求您可以承諾在3個月內徹查這5年內救安基金的使用用途嗎"},{"start":205.236,"end":212.589,"text":"我們會來徹查然後可不可以公所以您可以三個月內可以公開就是徹查之後然後公開每一筆支出明細嗎"},{"start":215.122,"end":242.98,"text":"呃先讓委員知道其實現在救安基金的使用的狀況目前檢調也在查好那第二個那我們會全力配合所以追究相關人士的責任該送證封送證封該送檢調該送法辦的絕不寬帶您會因為到底對於他有沒有違法的問題這恐怕不是勞動部可以自己說的算的這部分確實檢調在查所以沒錯啊我的訴求也很明確當然不是跟你沒有關係如果有明確的違法的實證我只是說你的態度是不是可以做到這麼公正無私啊該做的"},{"start":243.44,"end":264.863,"text":"就該做不可以寬戴再來就是修法強化救安機制的監督機制避免再被濫用你剛剛有說要檢討那這個部分大概什麼時候你有第三點剛剛其實前面有委員問其實救安基金的監督官機制的強化我們希望在一個月內可以有相關提出相關的這個方案出來"},{"start":266.104,"end":295.072,"text":"是不是可以向全國勞工道歉並提出這個道歉的部分然後具體方案你說一個月內嘛但是我覺得勞動部是不是應該道歉這個就業安定基金已完全的破壞了國人對於國家的信任前幾天才接到有人說他的母親因為因為有身體的需求他去聘僱了外勞那他每個月繳2000塊就業安定基金原來是這樣被政府濫用的所以身為剛上任的部長是不是應該也概括承受向全國勞工朋友道歉"},{"start":298.209,"end":324.556,"text":"我現在是勞動部長我當然該負的責任我當然必須擔起該負的責任那剛剛委員說到說要送政風也好送檢調也好只要有具體的事證再釐清有具體的事證我們絕對不會護短好 但是我希望你應該要代表我們現在的政府真的向全國的勞工朋友和這些雇主們道歉因為這個已經嚴重破壞國家的信任對人民的信任"},{"start":325.922,"end":346.375,"text":"這部分部長你怎麼看?我上任以後的工作勞動部現在當然是在一個很艱困內外很艱困的時刻我的工作就是第一個要把內部安頓好然後能夠重新取得社會大戰對勞動部的信任一級就是說你不願意道歉但是你說你要用行動去證明是不是?"},{"start":347.555,"end":375.469,"text":"這是我的工作所以你不願意不願意為現在過去勞動部造成的這些問題而向國人道歉我的工作是面對問題跟解決問題好部長河沛山這個前部長下台前曾經與諾立法院兩週內綱全案重新調查提出一個新的報告那現在還沒有出爐請問什麼時候可以給國人一個滿腹的滿意的答案目前重新調查重重啟調查的報告會在下週下週公開跟大家說明下週幾我也希望盡快"},{"start":376.71,"end":377.091,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":398.776,"end":418.936,"text":"部長在這個多事之秋你臨為壽命那包含剛剛提到不管是霸凌或是不當挪用經費啊要查水落石出那你也說很積極的要加速了解業務所以召集了部會人員週末向你業務簡報希望你可以更快的融入這個角色那這個內部事項你也交代過應該低調處理卻被"},{"start":421.482,"end":444.554,"text":"公務人員對於媒體披露出來讓大眾知道那也引來了這個經過過勞造成人員輕生處理方式居然還是繼續加班研究解決方案那這些被人家指責是要滑天下之大機我想問部長對這個出發點是想要加快瞭解業務那利益良善也不為過但是卻因為遭到批評你覺得部長你覺得會委屈嗎"},{"start":447.232,"end":475.43,"text":"其實在確實當時同仁們在我們在排這個報告的會議的時候當時是因為我在週間幾乎已經都排不出時間了所以當時其實才不得不排到週末但後來就是跟當時跟蘇昭偉蘇興泉昭偉其實有確認也跟他溝通也謝謝他在我們來未還報告的時間確認是禮拜三以後我們也多一點的時間所以後來我就把"},{"start":476.31,"end":503.949,"text":"這個在週末的會議給取消所以聽起來是覺得有點委屈但是後來也解決了沒有我其實是我也謝謝蘇英璇召委的體諒這部分我想當時我打電話跟蘇召委其實也表達這個事情那後來其實有幾位基層同仁來提醒確實大家在這一從11月初到現在因為這個霸凌北分署的事件其實大家的家長我只想你是不是宣示一下未來是不是都能夠合理分配工作不要"},{"start":504.729,"end":510.211,"text":"關於謝怡榮分署長據媒體報導你也承認說你2月的時候也就是悲劇發生的8個月前你就知道這個事情存在"},{"start":527.065,"end":543.695,"text":"那謝分署長的土皇帝的作為也略有所聞那時候你身為監督行政機關的立法委員為什麼沒有積極負起相關的責任你難道不知道也有可能是因為你沒有積極處理才導致這個悲劇發生你覺得你是不是也要負起一些責任"},{"start":544.892,"end":562.305,"text":"跟委員說明其實這是並不是二月啦其實這是在去年所以更早之前其實是在去年去年其實當時我還在衛環委員會裡面那我們有對於謝分署長的作風有聽聞但並不是針對無姓公務員的事件"},{"start":563.286,"end":581.185,"text":"當時我也不認識吳興公務員是謝分署長在他的分署內相關的作風我們有聽聞可是因為其實並不是有具體的澄清人來跟我澄清那我手上也並沒有具體的證據所以在我當時聽聞的狀況下面當然先跟勞動部做反應跟提醒"},{"start":582.253,"end":608.036,"text":"所以這件事情就是有兩件事要做嘛對不對部長你就是要積極追查另外一個應該要請相關的單位要認真處理對嗎這是一定的對不對但是又有媒體人爆料說打去政風處關心此案卻回嗆說你可能沒有當過公務人員所以你並不了解我們部門執掌的狀況那這個意思就很明顯嘛就是說啊你不懂啊你不要管啊以及這不是我們單位的事情我們政風不管很合理"},{"start":609.417,"end":628.485,"text":"請問部長這個霸凌到底屬不屬於政風該管的事還是因為也沒有人真正可以管所以就從政府不管所以整個勞動部就可以從根爛起開始挪用各種公款買禮物裝修違法亂計請問一下如果政風單位的心態是如此的話那這個事情要怎麼樣好好調查"},{"start":629.565,"end":650.66,"text":"要怎麼樣要怎麼樣好好的整頓部長相關的霸凌案或者是這些不法侵害的案件當然我們會請政風參與政風當然會參與那我覺得相關在這個在溝通的過程裡面也許有一些語氣大家有一些彼此理解上面我覺得可以做的更好的地方當然我們會來要求對"},{"start":652.861,"end":669.805,"text":"部長 如果你去詢問這些單位啊不管是這些人事室啊 政風室啊他可能表面上也不敢這樣跟你講啦就是剛剛那種態度但內心中他是不是會這樣想你會不會覺得洪立委轉成部長他會不會覺得說你一樣沒幹過公務員什麼都不懂你覺得有沒有可能呢"},{"start":671.172,"end":698.312,"text":"我想我到現在在做勞動部這個新的工作其實我很簡單在這個當下勞動部很艱困的當下其實我們就是全力以赴那我很希望的事情就是為其實跟部內的同仁說我們現在就是要重新的凝聚才能夠讓社會信任那我們會一步一步來做部長所以我其實想要問的就是說你覺得你現在上任部長你的新位子你覺得要磨合多久時間"},{"start":700.29,"end":720.627,"text":"其實我想立法院不會給我蜜月期啊所以你覺得你立刻就可以非常的上手對嗎我不敢講說叫做非常上手但是就我來說的話我當然要盡量的減短這中間我熟悉包括熟悉業務的過程因為外界包括現在大家對於霸凌案的高度的關切其實"},{"start":721.488,"end":740.748,"text":"不會給我太多的時間這我非常清楚的是啊部長我也是正面的期許雖然質詢台的左右兩邊兌換只有7步的距離可是事實上你接下來要面臨的是很多很多的挑戰包含你過去講過的話不只是現在的短期內處理霸凌案長期怎麼改善整個的"},{"start":741.829,"end":762.443,"text":"整個的這個文化甚至是這些就業安定基金甚至未來移工問題然後那個年金問題這都是你接下來要面對的好那我想要請問一下其實你剛剛本來有報告裡面好像有說到其實國際國際上沒有其他的國家有相關的這個霸凌的法規"},{"start":764.281,"end":789.575,"text":"是嗎應該說目前我們看到一些國家他比較是針對職權霸凌他比較是針對職權霸凌就是比較是上對下的部分那就我得到訊息但我們可以再做確認就是針對專法的部分事實上是不是可以參考韓國的職場反霸凌法他們在2019年的時候好像有通過這個職場霸凌禁止法或者職場內禁止欺凌法那裡面有說過"},{"start":791.316,"end":806.347,"text":"職場中禁止利用地位或關係優勢給其他勞工帶來身體或精神上的痛苦違法的行為人可能有刑責、刑法或行政法的責任具體來說具體是被認為職場霸凌的行為有威脅、暴行、惡言、誹謗、排擠"},{"start":810.169,"end":825.357,"text":"還有業務過程中被無事排除進行妨礙或指示簡單來說我們要多久的時間我們的勞動部會提出相關的立法版本各位說明現在確實在霸凌的定義上面我請同仁在國際上面的案例"},{"start":825.697,"end":825.897,"text":"主席"},{"start":843.775,"end":848.738,"text":"所以部長你認為大概有多少時間可以給一個報告或是修法立法的方向"},{"start":867.21,"end":880.044,"text":"立法的方向我們當然現在我們現在是很密切的在辦理中啦齁那我我真的是希望盡快啦就是因為但是因為這個法案的內容包括它的路徑到底是要修職職安法還是專章還是專法"},{"start":883.127,"end":906.824,"text":"這裏面不同的路徑其實我們也請這個相關的學者專家正在那我想一下因為通常做事你總是要有一個期程那你自己心裏面你預計你比較希望你多久時間內因為你剛好說一直不斷的研議再研議那到底要研議多久很會研議那研議到什麼時候會給大家一個比較好的改革方向包含你的救安基金也是一樣因為目前聽起來沒有時程就會是空話"},{"start":908.165,"end":935.791,"text":"我自己希望是在如果可以我要在下個會期至少在修法的規劃上有一個比較清楚的路徑下個會期那救安基金的部分呢救安基金的部分我想剛剛說關於把關的機制的強化的這個方案剛才跟有跟文說大概一個月內我們希望一個月內就會有方案好那我們期待到時候真的可以出來一個讓人家滿意的機制改革"},{"start":936.693,"end":960.167,"text":"之前部長你也曾經在臉書發言砲轟交通部開放客運有條件的開放上期休一甚至有機會連上十天當初你是這麼說只要再有一個連開七天以上疲勞駕駛而出人命的案子交通部應該就會被燒了吧但是你在這篇貼文後阿羅哈客運發生了疲勞駕駛三死十三傷"},{"start":961.731,"end":988.756,"text":"運安會也將發布多起物流業的疲勞駕駛車會的報告甚至昨天北市公車長期疲勞駕駛追撞四台機車那這樣子照您的說法交通部這樣惡搞勞基法是不是至少要被火燒好幾回那前部長許明春也表示說不排除廢止這個放寬許可那對於對此這個部長你會主張直接廢止嗎"},{"start":990.013,"end":997.806,"text":"嗯?廢紙哪一個部分?就是不排除這個之前許明春有表示過不排除廢紙放寬許可就是剛剛前面講的這個目前"},{"start":1002.053,"end":1022.158,"text":"跟委員報告目前的話客運的只有允許他在那個輸運的期間因為包括春節期間輸運期間可以有一些例外的一些放寬氣修醫的部分但是都也只在限於輸運期間所以我意思是說這個這就是這樣說部長你的發文嗎就是也是針對這件事嗎那你覺得這個事情你要"},{"start":1022.978,"end":1022.998,"text":"當然謝謝"},{"start":1052.411,"end":1053.501,"text":"好謝謝六位謝謝部長"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}