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就40萬對那另外還有業務費因為你們給的資料就是一大包嘛就說我們這個幾千萬我們要做什麼什麼什麼什麼所以我們也不知道說到底你花多少錢去做跟其他國家的交流啊但我覺得這也不管怎麼樣這也不是海基會的本業啦這種海基會的本業應該要回歸就是兩岸的一些民間的協商嘛"},{"start":236.152,"end":237.673,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":260.157,"end":288.345,"text":"這馬總統時代那時候當時台商有些人身安全事件協處一年大概是兩百件還有加上其他的一些財產法益事件一年大概可以海基會當時處理六百多件不過現在台商的相關的陳情案件大概就只剩下兩百件之前是六百件現在剩兩百件我們這邊都有把那個數據列出來就剩下三分之一這其實是你們主要業務可是你們的這個處理的案件數卻一直下滑"},{"start":289.451,"end":296.877,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":316.047,"end":319.529,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":333.556,"end":335.117,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":363.288,"end":363.808,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":393.388,"end":411.962,"text":"依然存在,你看喔,光是112年海基會緊急服務專線接聽的通數,當然不包括,不只是台商啦,就1萬633通嘛。那相較之前的平均4千多通,實際上兩岸的需求是有增加,是有增加。所以我只是透過這個預算的討論,就是跟主委跟秘書長講,"},{"start":413.303,"end":434.765,"text":"如果你要希望說海基會這個存在被大家認為是有需要的應該就本業上兩岸你如果協助兩岸的人民在溝通上面解決他們的問題嗎而不是說編了很多好像因為主業務變少了所以我為了編預算編預算然後邀請台商之女來導正他教育的觀念"},{"start":435.606,"end":459.566,"text":"然後不然就是我們去各國做交流去辦什麼座談會我認為這不是海基會應該要做的那我覺得主事者的觀念很重要你主事者如果認為說我的主要存在目的是要解決兩岸的問題的話你就會朝那個方向但如果主事者的想法是說反正我們現在兩岸關係不好我也沒什麼業務那我就好好的開展我的對外擴展的業務甚至做教育的工作那整個就偏掉了啦"},{"start":460.987,"end":482.885,"text":"所以我是希望說海基會包括陸委會還是能夠回到本業,不知道這樣怎麼可以如果找個時間有機會我再跟業委員再做當面報告你一定會知道海基會不管在兩岸基本的結構兩岸協商、交流以及各種服務工作我們做了努力和準備找個時間我當面再跟您做報告好謝謝委員我們的本業我們還是最主要的"},{"start":483.365,"end":486.908,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2826,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（12時27分）請陸委會主委和海基會董事長。"],["主席：好，請邱主委、董事長。"],["邱主任委員垂正：葉委員好。"],["葉委員元之：主委好。主委，我想問一下海基會的業務，因為海基會當初成立的目的是因為兩岸官方沒辦法交流，所以成立一個民間機構，透過民間的方式來交流，所以海基會扮演一個兩岸民間橋梁的工作。但是現在大家都知道海基會的功能越來越沒辦法凸顯了，這個當然是因為兩岸關係不好，這個是有大環境的影響。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想在服務交流和協商還是有很多功能。"],["葉委員元之：是啦！可是沒有像之前大家期望的那樣。現在的問題是說，海基會的功能不斷地在萎縮，可是編的預算卻越來越多，你看，這個是海基會明年編的預算，明年編的預算是3,198萬，比去年還多了大概一千多萬，根據海基會所提供的原因，是說因為文教費，還有一些交流活動的費用增加，我想請教一下，這個文教費用主要是用在哪裡？是請臺商子弟回臺灣觀光旅遊還是怎麼樣？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們有三所臺商子弟學校，他們在中國大陸用的教科書，內容涉及到我們主權意涵的，或者是比較敏感的，都會被刪掉，我們往往在暑假和寒假讓他們到臺灣社會來補課，所以我們會舉辦很多活動，包含剛剛說的夏令營、冬令營或探索營，來為他們補充臺灣元素的課程。"],["葉委員元之：主委，我不是說你們辦這個活動不好，而是說它不能成為海基會最主要存在的目的，這個比重就很奇怪。你現在感覺是說，因為怕臺商子弟在那邊受到洗腦，我們要把他們找回來，給他們洗滌一下、導正一下。"],["邱主任委員垂正：強化他們跟臺灣的連結。"],["葉委員元之：感覺海基會變成幫臺商子弟洗滌人心的機構之一，我認為這不是海基會存在最主要目的。"],["邱主任委員垂正：還有其他、還有其他。"],["葉委員元之：這不是海基會存在的最主要目的，這是第一件事情。","第二件事情是，你們提到會到各國去交流嘛，對不對？這也是你們增加預算的原因之一。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想海基會沒有這麼說啦。"],["葉委員元之：有。我們有看到預算書裡面，包括會到大陸以外的其他國家去做交流，跟智庫去做協商。"],["邱主任委員垂正：報告委員，如果有這種狀況，可能要去交流，就是因為川普2.0將採取高關稅，那中國大陸的臺商會到東南亞臺商雲集的地方，像越南、泰國、菲律賓、印尼，對臺商雲集的部分，我們也希望海基會能夠去瞭解臺商的動態。"],["葉委員元之：所以就是到各國去瞭解臺商動態？"],["邱主任委員垂正：但是有沒有編列那麼多預算？應該是沒有，應該是沒有。"],["葉委員元之：有一些業務費，但是至少我看到光是出國到各國去的旅費就有40萬。"],["邱主任委員垂正：對。"],["葉委員元之：另外還有業務費，因為你們給的資料就是一大包，說這個要幾千萬，要做什麼，所以我們也不知道到底你們花多少錢去跟其他國家交流，但是我覺得不管怎麼樣，這也不是海基會的本業，海基會的本業應該是要回歸兩岸的一些民間的協商。就是說，透過官方無法處理的，海基會要扮演它的功能，這才是海基會應該要去努力的方向。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想，對陸配家庭、對臺商、對在臺陸生，以及對在中國大陸的臺生，服務應該要加強。"],["葉委員元之：是，應該是這樣，那後面還有一些數據，也讓主委看一下，知道為什麼我們認為你們的具體業務越來越少，譬如說馬總統的時代，臺商有一些人身安全的事件，協處的件數一年大概是200件，還要加上其他一些財產法益事件，海基會當時是處理六百多件，不過現在臺商的相關陳情案件大概就只剩下200件，之前是600件，現在剩200件，我們這邊都有把那個數據列出來，就是剩下三分之一。這其實是你們的主要業務，可是你們處理的案件數字卻一直下滑。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我覺得看案件類型啦。"],["葉委員元之：你有去分析案件類型嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我去年在海基會的時候，我們一年就可以服務36萬5,000件，而且我們……"],["葉委員元之：沒有，沒有。我現在指的是臺商的部分。等一下還有別的數據，我現在講的是臺商的部分。"],["邱主任委員垂正：好，那我是不是請羅秘書長來說明？"],["葉委員元之：好。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：針對臺商的部分，在馬英九總統時代，海基會一年大概處理四、五百件，我們過去一年是有300件，所以雖然數字……"],["葉委員元之：你看這個數據，112年是277件，111年也是277件。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：葉委員，你引用的數字只是我們其中一項計劃，整個對臺商和大陸相關計畫還有其他統計，因為這只是其中一個表格。"],["葉委員元之：至少這項計畫裡面的人數在遞減。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：臺商的部分是因為這幾年臺商也大量從中國離開。"],["葉委員元之：所以你認為案件減少並不是因為兩岸關係不好，而是因為臺商減少的關係？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：兩岸關係當然有影響，但是中國內部臺商大幅出走……"],["葉委員元之：臺商大幅出走，造成海基會目前收到的可以處理的案件數變少，是這個意思嗎？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：但是我們的服務指標是不希望案件多，案件多就表示糾紛多。"],["葉委員元之：我知道，沒有人會希望案件多，我們只是要了解，海基會主要的業務……"],["羅副董事長文嘉：我們即使是一位、兩位……"],["葉委員元之：這我了解，這我了解，我只是想了解海基會的主要功能是否存在嘛。","好，還有另外一個數據，實際上剛剛秘書長講了，因為兩岸關係不好，然後臺商也變少，但是其實海基會重點工作依然存在，你看，光是112年，海基會緊急服務專線接聽的通數就1萬633通，當然不只是臺商，但相較之前的平均四千多通，實際上兩岸的需求是有增加。我只是透過預算的討論，跟主委和秘書長講，如果你希望海基會被大家認為是有需要的，應該就本業協助兩岸人民在溝通上面解決他們的問題，而不是編了很多，好像因為主業務變少了，所以為了編預算而編預算，然後邀請臺商子女來導正他們教育的觀念，不然就是去各國交流，去辦什麼座談會，我認為這不是海基會應該要做的。我覺得主事者的觀念很重要，主事者如果認為海基會存在的主要目的是要解決兩岸問題的話，就會朝這個方向，但如果主事者的想法是，反正現在兩岸關係不好，海基會也沒什麼業務，那就好好開展對外擴展的業務，甚至做教育的工作，那整個就偏掉了。所以我是希望海基會和陸委會還是回到本業，不知道這樣可不可以？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：委員，我找個時間有機會再跟葉委員當面報告，你一定會知道海基會在兩岸基本的結構、兩岸協商交流及各種服務工作，我們做的努力和準備。"],["葉委員元之：好。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：我找個時間，當面再跟您報告。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝。"],["邱主任委員垂正：委員，我們的本業還是最主要的，那其他功能的擴充，可能要跟委員講的整體……"],["葉委員元之：你們的本業現在感覺就是阻礙兩岸交流，現在本業變這樣了。"],["邱主任委員垂正：沒有，沒有。還是在交流服務，全力以赴。謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝葉元之委員。","接下來請黃國昌委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-13","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","李柏毅","張智倫","黃捷","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","黃建賓","賴士葆","吳琪銘","丁學忠","王義川","葉元之","黃國昌","羅智強","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法\n人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進\n會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】","agenda_id":"11311101_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}