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接問你啦！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:22:36.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:22:37.680000+08:00","text":"為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:22:37.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:22:40.182000+08:00","text":"是因為公部門待遇低嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:22:40.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:22:41.423000+08:00","text":"你們現在是不是有要求給專業加給和績效獎金？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:22:41.423000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:22:42.423000+08:00","text":"核定沒有？","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:22:41.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:22:42.024000+08:00","text":"簡單說明就好，因為時間有限。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"謝署長翠娟","start":"2024-12-04T12:22:42.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:22:42.864000+08:00","text":"因為這個考試是12月28日公布，學生……","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:22:43.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:22:43.485000+08:00","text":"請你簡單告訴本席，有沒有幫助？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:22:43.485000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:22:46.285250+08:00","text":"給專案加給和績效獎金有徵到才嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝署長翠娟","start":"2024-12-04T12:22:46.285250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:22:49.085500+08:00","text":"有幫助，絕對有幫助。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝署長翠娟","start":"2024-12-04T12:22:49.085500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:22:51.885750+08:00","text":"但是要努力爭取，因為如果太少的話，也是沒有辦法和業界競爭。很好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:22:51.885750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:22:54.686000+08:00","text":"部長，你看，馬上說到下一題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:22:54.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:22:55.446000+08:00","text":"政府加薪拚得過民間搶才嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:22:55.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:22:57.907000+08:00","text":"美國的AI工程師年薪超過970萬元，一般的AI工程師，在臺灣大概也有300萬元，他們的平均月收入是25萬元。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:23:19.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:23:29.764000+08:00","text":"考試院現在找的這些人，本席把名字調出來，如果是資安人員或資訊人員，最頂大概是9萬元或8萬8,000元，這樣能比嗎？","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:23:29.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:23:34.948000+08:00","text":"部長，就算加了專業加給和績效獎金，有辦法搶到人嗎？","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:23:34.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:23:35.148000+08:00","text":"這確實是一個問題。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:23:35.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:23:36.249000+08:00","text":"怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:23:36.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:23:39.451000+08:00","text":"怎麼解決？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:23:39.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:23:40.932000+08:00","text":"這是一個全面性的……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:23:40.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:23:43.374000+08:00","text":"我們來看一下，現在公部門資安人員能領多少？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:23:43.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:23:44.514000+08:00","text":"是不是剛剛那個數字？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:23:46.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:23:52.804000+08:00","text":"8萬元、9萬元，月薪有10萬元嗎？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:23:52.804000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:23:54.148000+08:00","text":"有辦法追上業界嗎？","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:23:54.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:23:54.930000+08:00","text":"你知道為什麼嗎？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:23:56.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:24:07.819000+08:00","text":"因為現在政府是以職續薪，如果你是司長階層簡任12職等，就是12萬5,000元，如果是科長9職等，就是八萬多元，依此類推。","quality":0.689},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:24:08.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:24:12.702000+08:00","text":"也就是說，你們的編制是什麼職缺，來的人就是什麼薪水，是不是這樣子？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:24:13.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:24:14.503000+08:00","text":"為什麼請人事和主計上台？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:24:14.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:24:15.024000+08:00","text":"就是要請他們幫忙說明啦！","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:24:16.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:24:19.786000+08:00","text":"兩位處長趕快過來告訴他，政府用的是不是以職續薪？","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"李處長錫東","start":"2024-12-04T12:24:19.786000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:24:23.709000+08:00","text":"沒有錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:24:23.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:24:34.216000+08:00","text":"但是美國軍方很特別，因為他們需要這些資訊人才，所以是以薪續職，你在民間多少錢，我們就用多少錢挖你過來。","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:24:35.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:24:42.341000+08:00","text":"如果薪資相當於少校，你一進來就是少校，如果相當於少將，你就是當少將。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:24:42.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:24:46.563000+08:00","text":"部長，我們的資安人才可以參照美國以薪續職嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:24:46.563000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:24:49.183000+08:00","text":"公部門大概很難，因為這牽涉到……很難！","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:24:49.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:24:52.968000+08:00","text":"美國的做法，我們沒辦法比照，怎麼辦？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:25:00.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:25:09.184000+08:00","text":"你們現在有三種做法，一個是正職或約聘僱，就是以職續薪加上加給，有薪酬上限，但是可以直接執行。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:25:09.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:25:11.705000+08:00","text":"另外一種就是委外，外包給廠商去做。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:25:12.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:25:13.906000+08:00","text":"還有一種是什麼？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:25:13.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:25:21.008000+08:00","text":"承攬，找學界、學者承攬委辦，他們就是寫研究報告，但是不能執行，沒有薪資上限。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:25:22.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:25:24.582000+08:00","text":"除了這三種方法，有沒有其他方法可以解決？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:25:24.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:25:26.603000+08:00","text":"我們有法人，像資安院，它現在……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:25:27.484000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:25:28.444000+08:00","text":"資安院就是委外啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:25:29.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:25:30.945000+08:00","text":"它能夠直接執行嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:25:31.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:25:31.946000+08:00","text":"有人搖頭。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:25:31.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:25:33.106000+08:00","text":"到底資安院是不是委外？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:25:33.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:25:34.107000+08:00","text":"還是承攬？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李處長錫東","start":"2024-12-04T12:25:34.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:25:38.609000+08:00","text":"資安院是我們的行政法人，所以基本上也是半個政府機關。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:25:38.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:25:40.250000+08:00","text":"他的薪資也是一樣有上限嘛！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:25:40.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:25:41.751000+08:00","text":"追得上民間的標準嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李處長錫東","start":"2024-12-04T12:25:41.751000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:25:42.751000+08:00","text":"這就相當於剛才委員說的以職續薪。對嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:25:42.751000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:25:43.751000+08:00","text":"是以職續薪嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:25:43.751000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:25:44.751000+08:00","text":"部長，怎麼辦？","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:25:44.751000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:25:45.751000+08:00","text":"請你們研究，一個月內提出辦法，好不好？好。謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:25:43.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:26:06.294000+08:00","text":"接下來談打詐，金管會說詐騙管道都是來自社群平台，其中臉書和Meta加起來市占率四分之三，但是這兩個平台的詐騙廣告就占了90%，將近6萬件。","quality":0.803},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:26:06.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:26:08.015000+08:00","text":"嚴不嚴重？嚴重。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:26:09.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:26:09.396000+08:00","text":"你們怎麼做？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:26:10.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:26:19.404000+08:00","text":"我在報告裡面有說過，現在第一個就是落實廣告實名制，廣告實名制會杜絕很多假的詐騙廣告。很好。","quality":0.805},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:26:20.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:26:23.627000+08:00","text":"我在立法院質詢了13次，行政院通過4個法，對不對？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:26:27.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:26:29.690000+08:00","text":"停止非實名制下廣告是誰做的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:26:29.690000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:26:31.571000+08:00","text":"兆豐金。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:26:31.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:26:33.612000+08:00","text":"兆豐金開了第一槍，是不是？對。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:26:33.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:26:34.053000+08:00","text":"有沒有效果？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:26:34.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:26:36.794000+08:00","text":"有，Meta說什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:26:36.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:26:39.055000+08:00","text":"數發部說Meta承諾1月前百分之百落實實名制。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:26:39.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:26:40.696000+08:00","text":"是不是這樣？對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:26:40.696000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:26:41.677000+08:00","text":"真的會落實嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:26:41.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:26:42.297000+08:00","text":"我們等著看喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:26:43.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:26:44.398000+08:00","text":"身分驗證百分之百落實。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:26:45.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:26:49.181000+08:00","text":"可是除了Meta之外，未落地的網路平台怎麼納管？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:26:49.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:26:54.804000+08:00","text":"抖音，這裡面有詐騙、有毒品、有色情，小紅書首傳三方詐騙，點數卡被拿走，淘寶也是一樣。","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:26:55.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:26:58.025000+08:00","text":"淘寶、小紅書、抖音有落地嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:26:58.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:27:00.307000+08:00","text":"沒有落地，你們怎麼管？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:27:05.917000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:27:10.040000+08:00","text":"現在第一個就是先處理剛剛說的投資詐騙廣告，這些大概就是藉由……","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:27:10.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:27:11.581000+08:00","text":"那是在平台的部分。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:27:12.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:27:14.703000+08:00","text":"有落地的平台，你們可以要求它，對不對？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:27:14.703000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:27:15.703000+08:00","text":"對，有落地的平台。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:27:14.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:27:16.284000+08:00","text":"沒有落地的平台怎麼辦？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:27:16.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:27:16.564000+08:00","text":"怎麼納管？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:27:17.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:27:19.286000+08:00","text":"也是一樣在一個月內提解決方案，可以嗎？可以。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:27:21.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:27:26.951000+08:00","text":"事業主管機關要我們做網路停止解析，我們就會停止解析。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:27:27.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:27:28.352000+08:00","text":"同步停止解析，那是色情的部分。","quality":0.462},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:27:29.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:27:33.176000+08:00","text":"除了同步停止解析之外，本席都猜得到你要說什麼了，還有哪些對策？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:27:33.917000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:27:43.525000+08:00","text":"其實網路平台改成實名制廣告就有很大的影響，因為越多非實名制的廣告越容易受詐騙。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:27:43.766000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:27:48.289000+08:00","text":"其實業界、民間也自發性要求抵制，如果是非實名制，他們就不下廣告。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:27:49.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:27:51.111000+08:00","text":"這個部分請你們定期公布，好不好？好。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:27:51.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:27:56.232000+08:00","text":"你們要定期公布那些非實名制的廣告平台，以及這個平台的詐騙數量，供民間參考。","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:27:57.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:28:06.576000+08:00","text":"廣告主自己做決定，要不要持續在這些沒有落地，或非採實名制的平台繼續投放廣告，我們讓市場力量發揮機制。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:28:06.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:28:07.396000+08:00","text":"可不可以？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:28:07.396000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:28:08.396000+08:00","text":"可以，這是很好的建議。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:28:07.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:28:10.117000+08:00","text":"以後定期做這件事情，可以嗎？可以。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:28:10.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:28:22.741000+08:00","text":"定期公布非實名制廣告網路平台，及各網路平台的詐騙案件等各樣數據，讓所有廣告主知道，你不要浪費錢在那些地方投放廣告，因為不但無效，而且還助長詐騙，好不好？","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:28:23.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:28:25.942000+08:00","text":"今天三個決議、兩個報告，怎麼樣招攬人才？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:28:28.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:28:32.244000+08:00","text":"這些未落地的平台未納管前，你們怎麼處置？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:28:33.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:28:34.325000+08:00","text":"最後，定期公布，好不好？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:28:35.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:28:36.865000+08:00","text":"部長，可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:28:36.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:28:36.965000+08:00","text":"好，可以。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-04T12:28:37.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:28:37.365000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:28:37.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:28:37.386000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的指導。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-04T12:28:37.886000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:28:41.028857+08:00","text":"謝謝鍾佳濱委員，謝謝部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-04T12:28:41.328857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:28:44.471714+08:00","text":"接下來請楊瓊瓔委員發言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":901,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（12時21分）主席、在場委員先進、列席的政府機關長官、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請數發部黃部長、主計處李處長和人事處莫處長。"],["主席：請部長、處長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長好，兩位處長好。這是本席今天的質詢標題，短期專案補足政府資安能力，定期公布非實名制廣告平台。部長，既然政府的資安能力不足，為什麼高考只開11個缺？目前中央和地方的缺額是239個，但是職缺只提報11個，結果不到200人來考。因為什麼原因？部長。"],["黃部長彥男：這個部分請資安署署長說明。"],["鍾委員佳濱：本席直接問你啦！為什麼？是因為公部門待遇低嗎？你們現在是不是有要求給專業加給和績效獎金？核定沒有？簡單說明就好，因為時間有限。"],["謝署長翠娟：因為這個考試是12月28日公布，學生……"],["鍾委員佳濱：請你簡單告訴本席，有沒有幫助？給專案加給和績效獎金有徵到才嗎？"],["謝署長翠娟：有幫助，絕對有幫助。但是要努力爭取，因為如果太少的話，也是沒有辦法和業界競爭。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好。部長，你看，馬上說到下一題。政府加薪拚得過民間搶才嗎？美國的AI工程師年薪超過970萬元，一般的AI工程師，在臺灣大概也有300萬元，他們的平均月收入是25萬元。考試院現在找的這些人，本席把名字調出來，如果是資安人員或資訊人員，最頂大概是9萬元或8萬8,000元，這樣能比嗎？部長，就算加了專業加給和績效獎金，有辦法搶到人嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：這確實是一個問題。"],["鍾委員佳濱：怎麼辦？怎麼解決？"],["黃部長彥男：這是一個全面性的……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我們來看一下，現在公部門資安人員能領多少？是不是剛剛那個數字？8萬元、9萬元，月薪有10萬元嗎？有辦法追上業界嗎？你知道為什麼嗎？因為現在政府是以職續薪，如果你是司長階層簡任12職等，就是12萬5,000元，如果是科長9職等，就是八萬多元，依此類推。也就是說，你們的編制是什麼職缺，來的人就是什麼薪水，是不是這樣子？為什麼請人事和主計上台？就是要請他們幫忙說明啦！兩位處長趕快過來告訴他，政府用的是不是以職續薪？"],["李處長錫東：沒有錯。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是美國軍方很特別，因為他們需要這些資訊人才，所以是以薪續職，你在民間多少錢，我們就用多少錢挖你過來。如果薪資相當於少校，你一進來就是少校，如果相當於少將，你就是當少將。部長，我們的資安人才可以參照美國以薪續職嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：公部門大概很難，因為這牽涉到……"],["鍾委員佳濱：很難！美國的做法，我們沒辦法比照，怎麼辦？你們現在有三種做法，一個是正職或約聘僱，就是以職續薪加上加給，有薪酬上限，但是可以直接執行。另外一種就是委外，外包給廠商去做。還有一種是什麼？承攬，找學界、學者承攬委辦，他們就是寫研究報告，但是不能執行，沒有薪資上限。除了這三種方法，有沒有其他方法可以解決？"],["黃部長彥男：我們有法人，像資安院，它現在……"],["鍾委員佳濱：資安院就是委外啊！它能夠直接執行嗎？有人搖頭。到底資安院是不是委外？還是承攬？"],["李處長錫東：資安院是我們的行政法人，所以基本上也是半個政府機關。"],["鍾委員佳濱：他的薪資也是一樣有上限嘛！追得上民間的標準嗎？"],["李處長錫東：這就相當於剛才委員說的以職續薪。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對嘛！是以職續薪嘛！部長，怎麼辦？請你們研究，一個月內提出辦法，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝。接下來談打詐，金管會說詐騙管道都是來自社群平台，其中臉書和Meta加起來市占率四分之三，但是這兩個平台的詐騙廣告就占了90%，將近6萬件。嚴不嚴重？"],["黃部長彥男：嚴重。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你們怎麼做？"],["黃部長彥男：我在報告裡面有說過，現在第一個就是落實廣告實名制，廣告實名制會杜絕很多假的詐騙廣告。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好。我在立法院質詢了13次，行政院通過4個法，對不對？停止非實名制下廣告是誰做的？"],["黃部長彥男：兆豐金。"],["鍾委員佳濱：兆豐金開了第一槍，是不是？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有沒有效果？有，Meta說什麼？數發部說Meta承諾1月前百分之百落實實名制。是不是這樣？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：真的會落實嗎？我們等著看喔！身分驗證百分之百落實。可是除了Meta之外，未落地的網路平台怎麼納管？抖音，這裡面有詐騙、有毒品、有色情，小紅書首傳三方詐騙，點數卡被拿走，淘寶也是一樣。淘寶、小紅書、抖音有落地嗎？沒有落地，你們怎麼管？"],["黃部長彥男：現在第一個就是先處理剛剛說的投資詐騙廣告，這些大概就是藉由……"],["鍾委員佳濱：那是在平台的部分。有落地的平台，你們可以要求它，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：對，有落地的平台。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有落地的平台怎麼辦？怎麼納管？也是一樣在一個月內提解決方案，可以嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：可以。事業主管機關要我們做網路停止解析，我們就會停止解析。"],["鍾委員佳濱：同步停止解析，那是色情的部分。除了同步停止解析之外，本席都猜得到你要說什麼了，還有哪些對策？其實網路平台改成實名制廣告就有很大的影響，因為越多非實名制的廣告越容易受詐騙。其實業界、民間也自發性要求抵制，如果是非實名制，他們就不下廣告。這個部分請你們定期公布，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你們要定期公布那些非實名制的廣告平台，以及這個平台的詐騙數量，供民間參考。廣告主自己做決定，要不要持續在這些沒有落地，或非採實名制的平台繼續投放廣告，我們讓市場力量發揮機制。可不可以？"],["黃部長彥男：可以，這是很好的建議。"],["鍾委員佳濱：以後定期做這件事情，可以嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：定期公布非實名制廣告網路平台，及各網路平台的詐騙案件等各樣數據，讓所有廣告主知道，你不要浪費錢在那些地方投放廣告，因為不但無效，而且還助長詐騙，好不好？今天三個決議、兩個報告，怎麼樣招攬人才？這些未落地的平台未納管前，你們怎麼處置？最後，定期公布，好不好？部長，可以嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：好，可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝委員的指導。"],["主席：謝謝鍾佳濱委員，謝謝部長。","接下來請楊瓊瓔委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}