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有請黃部長"},{"start":23.066,"end":45.78,"text":"謝謝部長我想數位信任很重要啦也希望全民可以信任數法部那我想我還是非常感謝我仔細閱讀了你們相關的這個過去一年所做的事跟相關的計畫在相關的資安跟技術上我覺得是有精進有不錯的成果先予以感謝那但是有幾個議題還是想要來就教一下想請教部長"},{"start":47.061,"end":66.56,"text":"在新的計畫書裡面呢你們有這個MOCN的預算是5.6億那低軌衛星是編了1.7億但是你們在第15頁的時候自己講了其實用所謂的傳統的這個5G的網路或者一般的電信基地台重大災難發生的時候可能會有部分的業者失效"},{"start":67.561,"end":76.134,"text":"全球現在都在佈建低軌衛星但是我們反而MOCN的預算竟然是它的將近三倍這個規劃您知道嗎?您同意嗎?"},{"start":77.312,"end":78.992,"text":"這個請司長在這邊做個說明謝偉文我看這技術是這樣子"},{"start":101.119,"end":117.9,"text":"現在三大業者並沒有用這個合成的這個技術所以他需要一些資本支出所以這個6億我們需要重新建對但是現在全世界都在限低軌衛星啊結果你們現在是在補足多網路的跨網路我知道啊可是這個合不合邏輯啊部長有沒有理解過"},{"start":119.571,"end":134.791,"text":"我們看了各國都是低軌衛星支出開始高於傳統的網路就算你是多網路是對吧衛星只有Mega級的流量那你救災的時候你是要怎麼樣你要下載2G上傳2G嗎不是吧對吧"},{"start":136.573,"end":138.675,"text":"二、新增1億計畫．新增AI網絡主動式防禦關鍵技術研究計畫．"},{"start":163.594,"end":186.913,"text":"兩頁的內容有什麼具體產出用什麼技術誰還執行一億要弄出30位資安人才啦這個部長知不知道啊你能不能簡要的回答第一個這個因為深層AI用深層AI來做網路防禦是一個新的發展那我們這個計畫是委託這個會做一套自己的系統嗎委託誰會外包嗎是資安院嗎"},{"start":190.396,"end":212.025,"text":"那就是資安院執行就不用開標案了然後訓練30位人才然後產出會產出一套自己的軟體嗎用的是什麼樣的AI用的是什麼樣的技術已經確定了嗎還是需要額外的報告我跟委員報告一下這個是委託由資安院來執行那我們會內部我們沒有在委外"},{"start":212.785,"end":213.365,"text":"謝謝,您可以在旁邊,部長。"},{"start":232.259,"end":249.754,"text":"書面上就是寫30位你不要現在來了突然變150然後到底是採用什麼技術講清楚這是一億的計畫好不好往後面所以能不能提出報告再提出來多久可以給細節一點的或者你們內部的計畫分享一下我們提報告給委員"},{"start":250.615,"end":269.09,"text":"人民的錢一週內可以吧因為這個預算你都編進去啊好不好好再來資安事件現在有非常多監理站詐騙也提醒所有的民眾連我們辦公室助理都收到而且是怎麼樣他剛被開完罰單結果就收到就收到監理站繳罰還的詐騙的信件"},{"start":272.632,"end":291.159,"text":"請問訴發部這邊有沒有收到監理站的這個結果上網一查一大堆人被騙11月10號就是11月一堆監理站各種方面而且都是那種剛收到交通罰單沒多久就收到這個繳費的詐騙的簡訊有沒有監理站或交通的單位有沒有跟你們通報"},{"start":292.179,"end":293.38,"text":"我們目前沒有收到通報吧?"},{"start":317.802,"end":332.45,"text":"目前沒有嘛對不對這個消息已經都在網路上了民眾都非常的恐慌可不可以麻煩一樣多久以內一周好不好這個詐騙快一點瞭解一下有或沒有就好然後我們來看一下說我們能幫什麼忙"},{"start":334.15,"end":352.336,"text":"一一一的短碼破功啦我想各位應該也知道這個消息了齁當然我知道短碼是一個好的做法但是有沒有解決方案結果呢我們看短碼有問題gov.tw可能也有問題這個到底我們在防詐上面應該要如何做我是希望齁應該要"},{"start":354.016,"end":368.651,"text":"更多的落實你們有很多跨部會的預算更多的落實合作資安打詐這一題我就之後有機會再交流因為時間很有限了資安人力短缺也麻煩注意一下剛剛呢這個中加兵委員有提到以新續職"},{"start":370.152,"end":392.887,"text":"這個方向我們也是覺得是從阿宅的角度來看也是認同所以希望這個部分呢也予以去了解那治安的人力的培育也要增加啦什麼11個啦30個啦150啦我覺得都是遠遠不夠其實你們預算是很充足的希望能夠補足治安人力增加流財的誘因最後我想請教部長一件事近期通查網"},{"start":394.324,"end":420.336,"text":"算是不小心提前下架了啦那雲端發票還有很多政府機關的數位的平台大家都有點擔心可能會有不被信任的問題所以我想訴發部應該要帶頭被信任而不是帶頭被不信任啦所以我想請教部長請教部長這個題很認真知通系統的外包是否需要做外包廠商的適任性查核"},{"start":421.158,"end":422.699,"text":"連查核都是外包啊"},{"start":451.053,"end":473.112,"text":"事任性查核抱歉我在問的是事任性查核抱歉部長我跟您溝通一下這是你們資通安全管理法的私情細則資通安全管理法裡面就算你們內部請資安院來做或者你們內部來做都要有公務人員的事任性查核不能有不適任的人來做我們的資通系統這是第一點"},{"start":473.692,"end":499.104,"text":"第二點連外包廠商都應該要有適任性的查核這是你們的資通安全管理法我們目前認為而且資通系統的定義對不起講得非常清楚這是資通安全法第三條第一項用於資料的收集控制傳輸儲存流通刪除資訊或對資訊進行其他處理使用或分享系統等於幾乎所有的資訊系統在外包上都應該要做適任性查核請問部長"},{"start":500.28,"end":500.3,"text":"謝謝委員．"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:36:47.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:36:48.188000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請黃部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-04T12:36:48.188000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:36:52.127000+08:00","text":"請黃部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:36:52.127000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:36:56.066000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:36:56.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:36:56.766000+08:00","text":"謝謝，部長好。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:36:57.707000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:37:00.689000+08:00","text":"數位信任很重要，也希望全民可以信任數發部。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:37:02.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:37:17.660000+08:00","text":"本席非常感謝，也仔細閱讀你們過去一年所做的事和相關計畫，在相關的資安和技術上，本席覺得有精進，有不錯的成果，先予以感謝，但是有幾個議題還是想要就教一下。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:37:18.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:37:29.050000+08:00","text":"請教部長，在新的計畫書裡面，你們有編列MOCN的預算5.6億元，低軌衛星是編列1.7億元。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:37:29.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:37:39.540000+08:00","text":"但是你們在第15頁也寫了，其實用傳統的5G網路或者一般的電信基地台，重大災難發生的時候，可能會有部分業者失效。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:37:40.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:37:48.774000+08:00","text":"全球現在都在布建低軌衛星，但是我們的MOCN預算卻反而是將近它的三倍，您知道這個規劃案嗎？","quality":0.738},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:37:48.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:37:49.134000+08:00","text":"您同意嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:37:49.134000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:37:50.134000+08:00","text":"關於MOCN，我們剛才說到韌性，它需要多個solution。對呀！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:37:50.134000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:37:51.134000+08:00","text":"但是災難發生的時候，地面上的沒辦法用，尤其是傳統網路，但是衛星還在啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:37:51.134000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:37:52.134000+08:00","text":"當然，還是需要地面機站，但是你們花6億元布建傳統網路，這樣對嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:37:50.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:37:51.212000+08:00","text":"這個部分請司長說明。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"鄭司長明宗","start":"2024-12-04T12:37:51.212000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:37:52.212000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"鄭司長明宗","start":"2024-12-04T12:37:51.792000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:38:21.328000+08:00","text":"MOCN這個技術是這樣的，現在三大業者並沒有用這個合成的技術，所以它需要一些資本支出，這6億元是因為我們需要重新布建。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:38:21.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:38:23.952000+08:00","text":"對，但是現在全世界都在建低軌衛星啊！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:38:24.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:38:29.298000+08:00","text":"本席知道你們現在是在補足多網路或跨網路，可是這樣合不合邏輯？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:38:30.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:38:30.900000+08:00","text":"部長有沒有了解過？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:38:32.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:38:39.220000+08:00","text":"我們看了各國的狀況，都是低軌衛星支出開始高於傳統網路，就算是多網路也是一樣，對吧？","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"鄭司長明宗","start":"2024-12-04T12:38:40.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:38:42.824000+08:00","text":"委員，衛星只有Mega級的流量，那……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:38:44.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:38:45.728000+08:00","text":"救災的時候是怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:38:45.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:38:47.430000+08:00","text":"要下載2G、上傳2G嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:38:47.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:38:47.591000+08:00","text":"不是吧！是。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"鄭司長明宗","start":"2024-12-04T12:38:47.591000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:38:48.591000+08:00","text":"但是因為MOCN是要給民眾使用，所以這個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:38:48.591000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:38:49.591000+08:00","text":"沒有關係，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:38:49.591000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:38:50.591000+08:00","text":"部長，希望您了解一下，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:38:50.591000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:38:51.591000+08:00","text":"這個實務上到底符不符合國際趨勢，麻煩了解一下。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:38:51.591000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:38:52.591000+08:00","text":"能不能回復本席？","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:38:52.591000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:38:53.591000+08:00","text":"好，我們回去再做研究調查。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:38:53.591000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:38:54.591000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:38:49.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:38:51.675000+08:00","text":"第二個，你們新增1億元的計畫，這是一個新項目，新增AI網路主動式防禦關鍵技術研究計畫，它只是一個研究計畫喔！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:39:16.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:39:18.196000+08:00","text":"請問這兩頁的內容有什麼具體產出？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:39:18.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:39:20.097000+08:00","text":"用什麼技術？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:39:20.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:39:20.097000+08:00","text":"誰來執行？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:39:21.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:39:26.002000+08:00","text":"1億元要培養出30位資安人才，部長知不知道這個計畫？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:39:26.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:39:27.483000+08:00","text":"你們能不能簡要回答？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:39:27.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:39:36.851000+08:00","text":"第一個，因為用生成式AI來做網路防禦是一個新的發展，我們這個計畫是委託……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:39:36.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:39:37.591000+08:00","text":"會做一套自己的系統嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:39:37.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:39:37.972000+08:00","text":"委託誰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:39:37.972000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:39:38.972000+08:00","text":"資安院。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:39:37.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:39:38.232000+08:00","text":"會外包嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:39:38.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:39:39.893000+08:00","text":"是資安院執行嘛！","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:39:44.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:39:47.858000+08:00","text":"因為是資安院執行就不用開標案了，然後還會訓練30位人才？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:39:49.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:39:50.719000+08:00","text":"會產出一套自己的軟體嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:39:50.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:39:51.599000+08:00","text":"使用什麼樣的AI？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:39:52.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:39:54.440000+08:00","text":"什麼樣的技術？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:39:54.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:39:55.381000+08:00","text":"已經確定了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:39:55.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:39:57.062000+08:00","text":"還是需要另外報告？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"何院長全德","start":"2024-12-04T12:39:59.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:40:03.464000+08:00","text":"這個部分是委託資安院執行，會由我們內部執行，並沒有再委外。","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"何院長全德","start":"2024-12-04T12:40:03.464000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:40:04.624500+08:00","text":"大概是從防禦的角度切入，包括AI的資安訓練、模型，還有人才的培育。","quality":0},{"speaker":"何院長全德","start":"2024-12-04T12:40:04.624500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:40:05.785000+08:00","text":"人才培育不是只有30位，我們一年培養的高階人才大概是150位。","quality":0.083},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:40:05.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:40:06.345000+08:00","text":"謝謝，您可以在旁邊協助回答。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:40:06.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:40:28.181000+08:00","text":"部長，書面上就是寫30位，現在又突然變150位。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:40:29.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:40:31.144000+08:00","text":"到底是採用什麼技術？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:40:31.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:40:33.166000+08:00","text":"請你們說清楚，因為這是1億元的計畫，好不好？","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:40:34.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:40:35.568000+08:00","text":"能不能提出報告？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:40:37.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:40:39.351000+08:00","text":"多久可以提出詳細一點的報告？","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:40:39.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:40:41.453000+08:00","text":"或者和我們分享你們內部的計畫，好不好？","quality":0.529},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:40:42.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:40:42.754000+08:00","text":"好，我們會提報告給委員。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:40:43.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:40:44.356000+08:00","text":"這是人民的錢。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:40:44.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:40:44.976000+08:00","text":"一週內可以吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:40:45.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:40:46.257000+08:00","text":"因為這個預算你們都編進去啦！","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:40:46.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:40:47.478000+08:00","text":"好不好？可以。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:40:47.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:41:02.070000+08:00","text":"再來是資安事件，現在有非常多監理站詐騙訊息，要特別提醒所有民眾，因為連我們辦公室的助理都有收到，而且他是剛被開完罰單，就收到監理站繳罰鍰的詐騙信件。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:41:05.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:41:07.633000+08:00","text":"請問數發部有沒有收到監理站詐騙案的訊息？","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:41:08.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:41:11.114000+08:00","text":"因為我們上網一查，發現一大堆人被騙。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:41:11.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:41:24.159000+08:00","text":"11月的時候爆發監理站的詐騙案，各種方式的都有，而且都是剛收到交通罰單，沒多久就收到繳費詐騙簡訊，監理站或交通單位有沒有向你們通報？","quality":0.763},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:41:24.159000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:41:25.159000+08:00","text":"如果是簡訊的話，我也要特別向民眾……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:41:25.159000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:41:26.159000+08:00","text":"對不起，部長，本席怕你搞錯問題，本席的意思是有沒有資料洩漏？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:41:26.159000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:41:27.159000+08:00","text":"有沒有駭客入侵？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:41:27.159000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:41:28.159000+08:00","text":"例如去查誰最近被罰，趕快寄詐騙簡訊給他。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:41:28.159000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:41:29.159000+08:00","text":"有沒有相關的通報？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:41:29.159000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:41:30.159000+08:00","text":"數發部有沒有進行資安查核的協助？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:41:30.159000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:41:31.159000+08:00","text":"有還是沒有？","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:41:25.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:41:26.360000+08:00","text":"我們目前沒有收到通報。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:41:50.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:41:51.362000+08:00","text":"目前沒有嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:41:51.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:41:52.903000+08:00","text":"對不對？對。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:41:52.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:41:57.966000+08:00","text":"這個消息已經在網路上流傳，民眾都非常恐慌，可不可以麻煩你們，多久之內可以處理？","quality":0.743},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:41:58.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:42:00.007000+08:00","text":"一週，好不好？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:42:00.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:42:05.430000+08:00","text":"因為這是詐騙，所以你們的動作要快一點，先了解一下有或沒有就好，然後我們再看能幫什麼忙。","quality":0.641},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:42:07.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:42:10.771000+08:00","text":"再來，111的簡訊短碼破功，各位應該也知道這個消息了。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:42:11.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:42:15.053000+08:00","text":"當然，本席知道短碼是一個好的做法，但是有沒有解決方案？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:42:16.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:42:24.135000+08:00","text":"現在短碼有問題，gov.tw可能也有問題，我們在防詐方面到底應該如何做？","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:42:24.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:42:28.397000+08:00","text":"本席希望要更加落實。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:42:28.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:42:35.705000+08:00","text":"你們有很多跨部會的預算，應該加強落實跨部會合作資安、打詐，這一題之後有機會再交流，因為時間很有限。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:42:36.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:42:50.197000+08:00","text":"資安人力短缺的問題也麻煩注意一下，剛剛鍾佳濱委員有提到以薪續職這個方向，我們從阿宅的角度來看也是認同的，所以希望這個部分你們也要去了解。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:42:50.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:43:02.165000+08:00","text":"另外，資安人力的培育也要增加，11個、30個、150個，本席覺得遠遠不夠，其實你們的預算是很充足的，希望能夠補足資安人力，增加留才的誘因。","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:43:03.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:43:16.948000+08:00","text":"最後本席想請教部長一件事，近期通查網算是不小心提前下架了，對雲端發票和很多政府機關的數位平台，大家都有點擔心，可能會有不被信任的問題。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:43:18.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:43:33.316000+08:00","text":"數發部應該帶頭被信任，而不是帶頭被不信任，所以本席想請教部長，這一題是很認真的，資通系統外包是否需要做外包廠商的適任性查核？","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:43:33.316000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:43:34.316000+08:00","text":"一定要啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:43:34.316000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:43:35.316000+08:00","text":"現在就是共同供應契約會做一些查核，是不是請……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:43:35.316000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:43:36.316000+08:00","text":"都有做嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:43:36.316000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:43:37.316000+08:00","text":"這是法律喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:43:37.316000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:43:38.316000+08:00","text":"資通安全管理法。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林代理署長俊秀","start":"2024-12-04T12:43:38.316000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:43:39.316000+08:00","text":"目前通報查詢網是委託工研院，他們有外包給一家民間企業。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:43:34.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:43:35.679000+08:00","text":"連查核都是外包啊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林代理署長俊秀","start":"2024-12-04T12:43:35.679000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:44:05.534000+08:00","text":"不是查核，我是說那個系統開發。","quality":0.154},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:44:05.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:44:08.236000+08:00","text":"抱歉，本席問的是適任性查核。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:44:08.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:44:26.112000+08:00","text":"抱歉，部長，本席和您溝通一下，這是你們資通安全管理法的施行細則，是資通安全管理法的規定，就算你們內部請資安院來做，或者由你們內部來做，都要做公務人員的適任性查核，不能由不適任的人來做我們的資通系統，這是第一點。","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:44:26.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:44:51.523000+08:00","text":"第二點，連外包廠商都應該要有適任性查核，這是資通安全管理法規定的，而且資通系統的定義寫的非常清楚，這是資通安全法第三條第一項，用於資料的蒐集、控制、傳輸、儲存、流通、刪除資訊或對資訊為其他處理、使用或分享之系統，等於幾乎所有資訊系統外包時都應該做適任性查核。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:44:52.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:44:52.104000+08:00","text":"請問部長，你們有沒有做？","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:44:52.104000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:44:53.104000+08:00","text":"據我的了解，是所謂的機敏系統要做查核。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-04T12:44:53.104000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:44:54.104000+08:00","text":"葛委員，時間差不多了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:44:54.104000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:44:55.104000+08:00","text":"抱歉喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:44:55.104000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:44:56.104000+08:00","text":"這是你們的法條，如果需要修就去修，這不是單指機敏系統喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-12-04T12:44:56.104000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:44:57.104000+08:00","text":"請你們帶頭守法，落實適任性查核，關於這一點，本席希望內部也做個討論，我們雙方來交流，好嗎？謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-12-04T12:44:53.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T12:44:53.300000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-04T12:44:53.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:44:58.371429+08:00","text":"謝謝葛如鈞委員，謝謝部長和各位首長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-04T12:44:58.671429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T12:45:01.814286+08:00","text":"接下來請洪孟楷委員發言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1008,"blocks":[["葛委員如鈞：（12時36分）謝謝主席，有請黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["葛委員如鈞：謝謝，部長好。數位信任很重要，也希望全民可以信任數發部。本席非常感謝，也仔細閱讀你們過去一年所做的事和相關計畫，在相關的資安和技術上，本席覺得有精進，有不錯的成果，先予以感謝，但是有幾個議題還是想要就教一下。請教部長，在新的計畫書裡面，你們有編列MOCN的預算5.6億元，低軌衛星是編列1.7億元。但是你們在第15頁也寫了，其實用傳統的5G網路或者一般的電信基地台，重大災難發生的時候，可能會有部分業者失效。全球現在都在布建低軌衛星，但是我們的MOCN預算卻反而是將近它的三倍，您知道這個規劃案嗎？您同意嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：關於MOCN，我們剛才說到韌性，它需要多個solution。"],["葛委員如鈞：對呀！但是災難發生的時候，地面上的沒辦法用，尤其是傳統網路，但是衛星還在啊！當然，還是需要地面機站，但是你們花6億元布建傳統網路，這樣對嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：這個部分請司長說明。"],["鄭司長明宗：謝謝委員。MOCN這個技術是這樣的，現在三大業者並沒有用這個合成的技術，所以它需要一些資本支出，這6億元是因為我們需要重新布建。"],["葛委員如鈞：對，但是現在全世界都在建低軌衛星啊！本席知道你們現在是在補足多網路或跨網路，可是這樣合不合邏輯？部長有沒有了解過？我們看了各國的狀況，都是低軌衛星支出開始高於傳統網路，就算是多網路也是一樣，對吧？"],["鄭司長明宗：委員，衛星只有Mega級的流量，那……"],["葛委員如鈞：救災的時候是怎麼樣？要下載2G、上傳2G嗎？不是吧！"],["鄭司長明宗：是。但是因為MOCN是要給民眾使用，所以這個……"],["葛委員如鈞：沒有關係，謝謝。部長，希望您了解一下，好不好？這個實務上到底符不符合國際趨勢，麻煩了解一下。能不能回復本席？"],["黃部長彥男：好，我們回去再做研究調查。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，謝謝。第二個，你們新增1億元的計畫，這是一個新項目，新增AI網路主動式防禦關鍵技術研究計畫，它只是一個研究計畫喔！請問這兩頁的內容有什麼具體產出？用什麼技術？誰來執行？1億元要培養出30位資安人才，部長知不知道這個計畫？你們能不能簡要回答？"],["黃部長彥男：第一個，因為用生成式AI來做網路防禦是一個新的發展，我們這個計畫是委託……"],["葛委員如鈞：會做一套自己的系統嗎？委託誰？"],["黃部長彥男：資安院。"],["葛委員如鈞：會外包嗎？是資安院執行嘛！因為是資安院執行就不用開標案了，然後還會訓練30位人才？會產出一套自己的軟體嗎？使用什麼樣的AI？什麼樣的技術？已經確定了嗎？還是需要另外報告？"],["何院長全德：這個部分是委託資安院執行，會由我們內部執行，並沒有再委外。大概是從防禦的角度切入，包括AI的資安訓練、模型，還有人才的培育。人才培育不是只有30位，我們一年培養的高階人才大概是150位。"],["葛委員如鈞：謝謝，您可以在旁邊協助回答。部長，書面上就是寫30位，現在又突然變150位。到底是採用什麼技術？請你們說清楚，因為這是1億元的計畫，好不好？能不能提出報告？多久可以提出詳細一點的報告？或者和我們分享你們內部的計畫，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好，我們會提報告給委員。"],["葛委員如鈞：這是人民的錢。一週內可以吧？因為這個預算你們都編進去啦！好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：可以。"],["葛委員如鈞：再來是資安事件，現在有非常多監理站詐騙訊息，要特別提醒所有民眾，因為連我們辦公室的助理都有收到，而且他是剛被開完罰單，就收到監理站繳罰鍰的詐騙信件。請問數發部有沒有收到監理站詐騙案的訊息？因為我們上網一查，發現一大堆人被騙。11月的時候爆發監理站的詐騙案，各種方式的都有，而且都是剛收到交通罰單，沒多久就收到繳費詐騙簡訊，監理站或交通單位有沒有向你們通報？"],["黃部長彥男：如果是簡訊的話，我也要特別向民眾……"],["葛委員如鈞：對不起，部長，本席怕你搞錯問題，本席的意思是有沒有資料洩漏？有沒有駭客入侵？例如去查誰最近被罰，趕快寄詐騙簡訊給他。有沒有相關的通報？數發部有沒有進行資安查核的協助？有還是沒有？"],["黃部長彥男：我們目前沒有收到通報。"],["葛委員如鈞：目前沒有嘛！對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["葛委員如鈞：這個消息已經在網路上流傳，民眾都非常恐慌，可不可以麻煩你們，多久之內可以處理？一週，好不好？因為這是詐騙，所以你們的動作要快一點，先了解一下有或沒有就好，然後我們再看能幫什麼忙。再來，111的簡訊短碼破功，各位應該也知道這個消息了。當然，本席知道短碼是一個好的做法，但是有沒有解決方案？現在短碼有問題，gov.tw可能也有問題，我們在防詐方面到底應該如何做？本席希望要更加落實。你們有很多跨部會的預算，應該加強落實跨部會合作資安、打詐，這一題之後有機會再交流，因為時間很有限。","資安人力短缺的問題也麻煩注意一下，剛剛鍾佳濱委員有提到以薪續職這個方向，我們從阿宅的角度來看也是認同的，所以希望這個部分你們也要去了解。另外，資安人力的培育也要增加，11個、30個、150個，本席覺得遠遠不夠，其實你們的預算是很充足的，希望能夠補足資安人力，增加留才的誘因。","最後本席想請教部長一件事，近期通查網算是不小心提前下架了，對雲端發票和很多政府機關的數位平台，大家都有點擔心，可能會有不被信任的問題。數發部應該帶頭被信任，而不是帶頭被不信任，所以本席想請教部長，這一題是很認真的，資通系統外包是否需要做外包廠商的適任性查核？"],["黃部長彥男：一定要啦！現在就是共同供應契約會做一些查核，是不是請……"],["葛委員如鈞：都有做嗎？這是法律喔！資通安全管理法。"],["林代理署長俊秀：目前通報查詢網是委託工研院，他們有外包給一家民間企業。"],["葛委員如鈞：連查核都是外包啊？"],["林代理署長俊秀：不是查核，我是說那個系統開發。"],["葛委員如鈞：抱歉，本席問的是適任性查核。抱歉，部長，本席和您溝通一下，這是你們資通安全管理法的施行細則，是資通安全管理法的規定，就算你們內部請資安院來做，或者由你們內部來做，都要做公務人員的適任性查核，不能由不適任的人來做我們的資通系統，這是第一點。","第二點，連外包廠商都應該要有適任性查核，這是資通安全管理法規定的，而且資通系統的定義寫的非常清楚，這是資通安全法第三條第一項，用於資料的蒐集、控制、傳輸、儲存、流通、刪除資訊或對資訊為其他處理、使用或分享之系統，等於幾乎所有資訊系統外包時都應該做適任性查核。請問部長，你們有沒有做？"],["黃部長彥男：據我的了解，是所謂的機敏系統要做查核。"],["主席：葛委員，時間差不多了。"],["葛委員如鈞：抱歉喔！這是你們的法條，如果需要修就去修，這不是單指機敏系統喔！請你們帶頭守法，落實適任性查核，關於這一點，本席希望內部也做個討論，我們雙方來交流，好嗎？謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝葛如鈞委員，謝謝部長和各位首長。","接下來請洪孟楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}