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有?我們跟許多相關的國安部門都在密註這個情形發生,也做應處。但是剛剛委員所說的是媒體的說法。哪一部分是媒體的說法?"},{"start":222.574,"end":223.795,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":242.415,"end":243.956,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":255.615,"end":275.287,"text":"我覺得還有一些非常不確定的因素還有一些不確定的因素就你說的這個不確定的因素你認不認同說如果多交流多溝通可以延長誤判的可能性各位委員報告我們也是希望透過交流來緩和兩岸關係你也是希望透過交流"},{"start":278.309,"end":279.189,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":293.374,"end":294.455,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":310.009,"end":324.425,"text":"在2020年的港版國安法以及2020年的維護國家安全的條例公佈之後那麼國人好像有一點點害怕好像有點害怕但是我們看到在2024年就今年"},{"start":324.906,"end":325.846,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":348.695,"end":350.736,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":368.709,"end":370.791,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":397.972,"end":398.793,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":414.535,"end":415.195,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":433.922,"end":434.602,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":457.389,"end":457.929,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":482.466,"end":484.187,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":508.406,"end":535.846,"text":"因為你目前為止你的登錄成效是還不夠的。你也回答了是本席是要告訴你你要怎麼樣去精進方案這個才是重點我們會持續的宣導人家又不願意那你又認為很危險那你又說很危險然後又沒有方案出來而且成效又沒有出來那這個邏輯太奇怪執行效能是不髒的"},{"start":536.827,"end":565.74,"text":"所以我還是給你一個方向你剛才告訴我你有很多的這個系統怎麼樣去防止你把那個說明資料給本席但是我最後還是要告訴你一句話也就是如果兩岸多交流兩岸多溝通是是我們也要努力這個方向你也願意這個方向但是希望是對等尊嚴健康有序的正常交流才不會有誤判的這個可能性這一點是重點你把你那個經濟方案多久給本席"},{"start":566.4,"end":567.54,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:03:52.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:03:53.292000+08:00","text":"謝謝，楊瓊瓔發言，請邱主委。","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-04T13:03:53.292000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:03:54.292000+08:00","text":"請邱主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:03:54.292000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:03:55.292000+08:00","text":"楊委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:03:53.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:04:28.562000+08:00","text":"我們就預算來做討論，陸委會在114年的預算當中，法政業務跟兩岸法政交流政策規劃以及研擬推動是編列了1,339萬1,000元，這個目的是要研議因兩岸交流安全管理及衍生的問題來健全整個制度化處理的機制。是。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:04:29.744000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:04:55.369000+08:00","text":"所以本席要在這邊請教，也就是說，如果是以國安事由限制國人的人身安全，但是又沒有通知我們，也就是說沒有依照海峽兩岸共同打擊犯罪以及司法互助協議的規定來向我國進行通報，請教主委，你有什麼精進的方案能夠保障海峽兩岸人民的權益呢？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:04:55.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:04:55.669000+08:00","text":"請做說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:04:55.669000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:05:03.366750+08:00","text":"是，謝謝楊委員指教。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:05:03.366750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:05:11.064500+08:00","text":"有關於國安事由的案件，過去在陸方包括在馬前總統執政的時候，他們也都沒有通報我方，要有刑事案件才會依照兩岸共同打擊犯罪及司法互助協議跟……","quality":0.016},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:05:11.064500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:05:18.762250+08:00","text":"就你這一句，依照以往都沒有，現在你當主委，你有什麼精進方案？","quality":0.038},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:05:18.762250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:05:26.460000+08:00","text":"本席要聽的是這個，而不是你的批判，我要聽的是你的方法，請做說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:05:26.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:05:37.105000+08:00","text":"我們過去希望如果有協議正常被執行，他們都能夠通報我們，但國安案件就沒有，我們現在如果要確保國人，我們當然會希望透過既有的溝通聯繫機制……","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:05:37.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:05:37.346000+08:00","text":"你有溝通嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:05:37.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:05:37.986000+08:00","text":"請問到目前為止就是沒有，你有什麼精進方案？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:05:38.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:05:38.186000+08:00","text":"你有溝通嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:05:38.186000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:05:41.524625+08:00","text":"我們跟陸方的執法單位，我們也有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:05:41.524625+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:05:44.863250+08:00","text":"有沒有溝通？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:05:44.863250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:05:48.201875+08:00","text":"第一個，有沒有溝通？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:05:48.201875+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:05:51.540500+08:00","text":"第二個，溝通有沒有良？","quality":0.111},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:05:51.540500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:05:54.879125+08:00","text":"我們都會向對方反映。","quality":0.111},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:05:54.879125+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:05:58.217750+08:00","text":"為什麼你希望的但是沒有，為什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:05:58.217750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:06:01.556375+08:00","text":"是溝通不良？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:06:01.556375+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:06:04.895000+08:00","text":"還是怎麼回事呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:06:04.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:06:13.006000+08:00","text":"我覺得是對岸在執法的態度沒有積極性，他們認為我們不答應他政治前提，所以處於一個……","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:06:13.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:06:19.455000+08:00","text":"這你還是以政治前提來回答所有的一切，我從早上聽到現在就是這個答案。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:06:19.455000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:06:20.455000+08:00","text":"對，但是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:06:19.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:06:42.784000+08:00","text":"所以本席具體建議邱主委，我認為我們兩岸交流，剛剛你也回答了，兩岸交流不是什麼都不能交流，你剛剛也特別回答了，那我覺得我們臺灣這個國家、中華民國是一個好的國家，跟全世界各國都應該要做交流，跟全世界各國都應當有好的交流就要交流嘛，對不對？","quality":0.991},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:06:42.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:06:43.804000+08:00","text":"是，楊委員所言甚是，我們……","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:06:44.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:06:50.626000+08:00","text":"這個非常好，所以本席要請教，我們如果只有一味說對方怎麼樣，我們還是得不到答案，那我方有什麼精進方案？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:06:50.626000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:06:59.906500+08:00","text":"這是本席要聽的，你把你的精進方案書面資料提供給本席。是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:06:59.906500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:07:09.187000+08:00","text":"接下來我要請教的是，外媒有報導這個周末大陸地區要對臺做軍演，有沒有這回事？","quality":0.059},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:07:09.187000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:07:09.987000+08:00","text":"你的訊息有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:07:10.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:07:13.729000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們現在還在密注當中。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:07:14.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:07:16.149000+08:00","text":"密注當中，到底是有還是沒有？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:07:16.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:07:17.009000+08:00","text":"你有沒有掌控？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:07:17.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:07:17.930000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:07:18.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:07:28.073000+08:00","text":"我們跟許多相關的國安部門都在密注這個情形發生，也做應處，但是剛剛委員所說的那是媒體的說法，我們……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:07:28.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:07:29.473000+08:00","text":"哪一部分是媒體的說法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:07:29.473000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:07:38.508500+08:00","text":"就是說已經會有一個固定的時間……","quality":0.071},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:07:38.508500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:07:47.544000+08:00","text":"你說是媒體的說法，換句話說，在你們跟相關單位國防部、國安局有掌控這個訊息，所以你剛才說外媒報導周末有這個事項，你認為是媒體的說法？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:07:47.544000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:07:56.579500+08:00","text":"目前是媒體的說法，我們還在持續關注當中，密注這個情勢的發展。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:07:56.579500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:08:05.615000+08:00","text":"所以你密注這個情勢的發展，到目前還認為不至於成形，可以這麼解讀嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:08:05.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:08:08.537000+08:00","text":"我覺得還有一些非常不確定的因素，我們持續掌握。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:08:09.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:08:10.458000+08:00","text":"還有一些不確定的因素？是。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:08:11.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:08:18.863000+08:00","text":"就你說的這個不確定的因素，你認不認同如果多交流、多溝通，可以防止誤判的可能性？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:08:20.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:08:23.946000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們也是希望透過交流來緩和兩岸關係。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:08:23.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:08:25.267000+08:00","text":"你也是希望，好一個希望透過交流。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:08:25.267000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:08:35.864227+08:00","text":"好，你希望透過交流來延緩、來緩和，這個非常好，我們是一個民主國家，本來多交流可以防止誤判情勢，以免擦槍走火，人民要的是一個安全。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:08:35.864227+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:08:46.461455+08:00","text":"好，你這個回答非常好，也就是希望透過多方的交流，所以本席再繼續跟你討論，在港澳蒙藏業務裡頭，你們聯繫服務費用編列114年是8,200萬5,000元，在這個情況之下，2020年「港版國安法」與2024年「維護國家安全條例」公布實施後，國人好像有一點點害怕，但是我們看到在2024年，就是今年1月到7月投資情況的成長，所以相對的也就是陸委會是否有去密切的評估相關的情勢對於臺港民間往來的影響，以強化保障在港以及赴港國人的安全？","quality":0.231},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:08:46.461455+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:08:57.058682+08:00","text":"請說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:08:57.058682+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:09:07.655909+08:00","text":"委員講因為中國大陸有國安條例、港版國安法，或是他們最近所訂的維護國家安全條例，對於我們赴港澳人身安全確實升高風險，所以我們一直也呼籲，赴陸港澳應該要仔細評估必要性，並向我們的動態登錄系統來登錄，以確保國人如果有需要，我們可以提供協助。","quality":0.019},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:09:07.655909+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:09:18.253136+08:00","text":"你講的這個動態登錄，本席就直接跟你討論，因為中華民國是一個民主自由國家，你沒有辦法限制人民怎麼走，但是你要維護他的安全。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:09:18.253136+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:09:28.850364+08:00","text":"對不對？是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:09:28.850364+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:09:39.447591+08:00","text":"因此你講到赴大陸跟港澳相關的就是那個簡訊。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:09:39.447591+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:09:50.044818+08:00","text":"簡訊也有，還有登錄系統。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:09:50.044818+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:10:00.642045+08:00","text":"就是登錄，但是我告訴你成效，113年1月到7月的時候，國人赴港澳、赴陸的登錄比例各自是多少呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:10:00.642045+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:10:11.239273+08:00","text":"是4.8%跟2.45%，換句話說，現在當然好像是高一點，但是都不及5%。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:10:11.239273+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:10:21.836500+08:00","text":"你在整個預算776萬以這樣的成效，是人家不登錄？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:10:21.836500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:10:32.433727+08:00","text":"還是覺得沒有危險？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:10:32.433727+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:10:43.030955+08:00","text":"還是也不知道你的政策？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:10:43.030955+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:10:53.628182+08:00","text":"到底是怎麼回事？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:10:53.628182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:11:04.225409+08:00","text":"請作說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:11:04.225409+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:11:14.822636+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，雖然我們5%真的是不高，並且很偏低，但是……","quality":0.095},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:11:14.822636+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:11:25.419864+08:00","text":"你沒有5%，聽清楚，你只有2.45%及4.8%的登錄。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:11:25.419864+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:11:36.017091+08:00","text":"現在應該有5%。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:11:36.017091+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:11:46.614318+08:00","text":"不是現在應該……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:11:46.614318+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:11:57.211545+08:00","text":"應該是政府各系統的登錄比例最高，但是我們還是要繼續鼓勵國人來登錄，畢竟赴陸港澳的風險確實比較高，所以我們也是呼籲國人登錄。","quality":0.018},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:11:57.211545+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:12:07.808773+08:00","text":"我們為了要協助國人登錄以及協助我們國人來評估……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:12:07.808773+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:12:18.406000+08:00","text":"主委，你這個邏輯有點奇怪，你一直說是危險的，但是預算給你，你的登錄比是4.8%跟2.45%，又不成比例，表示你的方案應該要怎麼去做精進啊？","quality":0.018},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:12:18.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:12:18.967000+08:00","text":"因為預算給了！","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:12:18.967000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:12:19.967000+08:00","text":"是，我們一方面優化，二方面我們最近也通過了很多風險評估的諮詢專線，也提供我們民眾……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:12:19.967000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:12:20.967000+08:00","text":"通過了很多風險評估的諮詢專線？哇！","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:12:20.967000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:12:21.967000+08:00","text":"你這樣講更讓人覺得恐怖，讓人害怕。","quality":0.067},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:12:21.967000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:12:22.967000+08:00","text":"不會，因為很多人詢問到底要怎麼登錄，我們來予以協助。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:12:22.967000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:12:23.967000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝你的回答。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:12:23.967000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:12:24.967000+08:00","text":"如果他會擔心現在赴陸港澳風險怎麼樣，我們都可以協助評估。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:12:19.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:12:22.549000+08:00","text":"請聽本席的提問，因為目前為止你的登錄成效是還不夠的，對不對？是。","quality":0.536},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:12:23.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:12:31.156000+08:00","text":"你也回答了「是」，本席是要告訴你，你要怎麼樣去精進方案，這個才是重點。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:12:31.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:12:32.957000+08:00","text":"我們會持續的宣導。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:12:32.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:12:40.422000+08:00","text":"預算花下去，人家又不願意，那你又認為很危險，然後又沒有方案出來……","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:12:40.422000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:12:41.422000+08:00","text":"有方案，我們也是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:12:40.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:12:45.826000+08:00","text":"而且成效又沒有出來，這個邏輯太奇怪，執行效能是不彰的。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:12:46.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:12:55.751000+08:00","text":"所以我還是給你一個方向，你剛才告訴我，你有很多的系統怎麼樣去防止，你把書面資料給本席。好。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:12:56.251000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:13:01.494000+08:00","text":"我最後還要再告訴你一句話，也就是如果兩岸多交流、兩岸多溝通……","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:13:01.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:13:03.474000+08:00","text":"是，我們也要努力這個方向。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:13:03.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:13:04.935000+08:00","text":"你也願意這個方向……","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:13:05.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:13:08.577000+08:00","text":"但是必須是要「對等尊嚴、健康有序」的正常交流。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:13:08.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:13:15.720000+08:00","text":"當然，才不會有誤判的這個可能性，這點是重點，你多久可以給本席你的精進方案？","quality":0.697},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:13:15.720000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:13:16.720000+08:00","text":"是的，我們應該很快……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:13:16.720000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:13:17.720000+08:00","text":"很快是多快？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:13:17.720000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:13:18.720000+08:00","text":"是現在還是三天？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:13:18.720000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:13:19.720000+08:00","text":"一個禮拜好嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-12-04T13:13:19.720000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:13:20.720000+08:00","text":"好，一個禮拜把你的精進方案給本席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-12-04T13:13:16.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-04T13:13:16.960000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-04T13:13:17.460000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:13:19.460000+08:00","text":"謝謝楊瓊瓔委員。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-04T13:13:19.760000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-04T13:13:22.331429+08:00","text":"接下來請洪孟楷委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":3043,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（13時3分）謝謝，楊瓊瓔發言，請邱主委。"],["主席：請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們就預算來做討論，陸委會在114年的預算當中，法政業務跟兩岸法政交流政策規劃以及研擬推動是編列了1,339萬1,000元，這個目的是要研議因兩岸交流安全管理及衍生的問題來健全整個制度化處理的機制。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席要在這邊請教，也就是說，如果是以國安事由限制國人的人身安全，但是又沒有通知我們，也就是說沒有依照海峽兩岸共同打擊犯罪以及司法互助協議的規定來向我國進行通報，請教主委，你有什麼精進的方案能夠保障海峽兩岸人民的權益呢？請做說明。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，謝謝楊委員指教。有關於國安事由的案件，過去在陸方包括在馬前總統執政的時候，他們也都沒有通報我方，要有刑事案件才會依照兩岸共同打擊犯罪及司法互助協議跟……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就你這一句，依照以往都沒有，現在你當主委，你有什麼精進方案？本席要聽的是這個，而不是你的批判，我要聽的是你的方法，請做說明。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們過去希望如果有協議正常被執行，他們都能夠通報我們，但國安案件就沒有，我們現在如果要確保國人，我們當然會希望透過既有的溝通聯繫機制……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你有溝通嗎？請問到目前為止就是沒有，你有什麼精進方案？你有溝通嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們跟陸方的執法單位，我們也有……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有沒有溝通？第一個，有沒有溝通？第二個，溝通有沒有良？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們都會向對方反映。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：為什麼你希望的但是沒有，為什麼？是溝通不良？還是怎麼回事呢？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我覺得是對岸在執法的態度沒有積極性，他們認為我們不答應他政治前提，所以處於一個……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這你還是以政治前提來回答所有的一切，我從早上聽到現在就是這個答案。"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，但是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席具體建議邱主委，我認為我們兩岸交流，剛剛你也回答了，兩岸交流不是什麼都不能交流，你剛剛也特別回答了，那我覺得我們臺灣這個國家、中華民國是一個好的國家，跟全世界各國都應該要做交流，跟全世界各國都應當有好的交流就要交流嘛，對不對？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，楊委員所言甚是，我們……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個非常好，所以本席要請教，我們如果只有一味說對方怎麼樣，我們還是得不到答案，那我方有什麼精進方案？這是本席要聽的，你把你的精進方案書面資料提供給本席。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來我要請教的是，外媒有報導這個周末大陸地區要對臺做軍演，有沒有這回事？你的訊息有沒有？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們現在還在密注當中。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：密注當中，到底是有還是沒有？你有沒有掌控？有沒有？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們跟許多相關的國安部門都在密注這個情形發生，也做應處，但是剛剛委員所說的那是媒體的說法，我們……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：哪一部分是媒體的說法？"],["邱主任委員垂正：就是說已經會有一個固定的時間……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你說是媒體的說法，換句話說，在你們跟相關單位國防部、國安局有掌控這個訊息，所以你剛才說外媒報導周末有這個事項，你認為是媒體的說法？"],["邱主任委員垂正：目前是媒體的說法，我們還在持續關注當中，密注這個情勢的發展。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以你密注這個情勢的發展，到目前還認為不至於成形，可以這麼解讀嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我覺得還有一些非常不確定的因素，我們持續掌握。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：還有一些不確定的因素？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就你說的這個不確定的因素，你認不認同如果多交流、多溝通，可以防止誤判的可能性？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們也是希望透過交流來緩和兩岸關係。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你也是希望，好一個希望透過交流。好，你希望透過交流來延緩、來緩和，這個非常好，我們是一個民主國家，本來多交流可以防止誤判情勢，以免擦槍走火，人民要的是一個安全。","好，你這個回答非常好，也就是希望透過多方的交流，所以本席再繼續跟你討論，在港澳蒙藏業務裡頭，你們聯繫服務費用編列114年是8,200萬5,000元，在這個情況之下，2020年「港版國安法」與2024年「維護國家安全條例」公布實施後，國人好像有一點點害怕，但是我們看到在2024年，就是今年1月到7月投資情況的成長，所以相對的也就是陸委會是否有去密切的評估相關的情勢對於臺港民間往來的影響，以強化保障在港以及赴港國人的安全？請說明。"],["邱主任委員垂正：委員講因為中國大陸有國安條例、港版國安法，或是他們最近所訂的維護國家安全條例，對於我們赴港澳人身安全確實升高風險，所以我們一直也呼籲，赴陸港澳應該要仔細評估必要性，並向我們的動態登錄系統來登錄，以確保國人如果有需要，我們可以提供協助。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你講的這個動態登錄，本席就直接跟你討論，因為中華民國是一個民主自由國家，你沒有辦法限制人民怎麼走，但是你要維護他的安全。對不對？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因此你講到赴大陸跟港澳相關的就是那個簡訊。"],["邱主任委員垂正：簡訊也有，還有登錄系統。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就是登錄，但是我告訴你成效，113年1月到7月的時候，國人赴港澳、赴陸的登錄比例各自是多少呢？是4.8%跟2.45%，換句話說，現在當然好像是高一點，但是都不及5%。你在整個預算776萬以這樣的成效，是人家不登錄？還是覺得沒有危險？還是也不知道你的政策？到底是怎麼回事？請作說明。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員，雖然我們5%真的是不高，並且很偏低，但是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你沒有5%，聽清楚，你只有2.45%及4.8%的登錄。"],["邱主任委員垂正：現在應該有5%。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不是現在應該……"],["邱主任委員垂正：應該是政府各系統的登錄比例最高，但是我們還是要繼續鼓勵國人來登錄，畢竟赴陸港澳的風險確實比較高，所以我們也是呼籲國人登錄。我們為了要協助國人登錄以及協助我們國人來評估……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：主委，你這個邏輯有點奇怪，你一直說是危險的，但是預算給你，你的登錄比是4.8%跟2.45%，又不成比例，表示你的方案應該要怎麼去做精進啊？因為預算給了！"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，我們一方面優化，二方面我們最近也通過了很多風險評估的諮詢專線，也提供我們民眾……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：通過了很多風險評估的諮詢專線？哇！你這樣講更讓人覺得恐怖，讓人害怕。"],["邱主任委員垂正：不會，因為很多人詢問到底要怎麼登錄，我們來予以協助。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是，謝謝你的回答。"],["邱主任委員垂正：如果他會擔心現在赴陸港澳風險怎麼樣，我們都可以協助評估。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請聽本席的提問，因為目前為止你的登錄成效是還不夠的，對不對？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你也回答了「是」，本席是要告訴你，你要怎麼樣去精進方案，這個才是重點。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們會持續的宣導。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：預算花下去，人家又不願意，那你又認為很危險，然後又沒有方案出來……"],["邱主任委員垂正：有方案，我們也是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：而且成效又沒有出來，這個邏輯太奇怪，執行效能是不彰的。所以我還是給你一個方向，你剛才告訴我，你有很多的系統怎麼樣去防止，你把書面資料給本席。"],["邱主任委員垂正：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我最後還要再告訴你一句話，也就是如果兩岸多交流、兩岸多溝通……"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，我們也要努力這個方向。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你也願意這個方向……"],["邱主任委員垂正：但是必須是要「對等尊嚴、健康有序」的正常交流。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然，才不會有誤判的這個可能性，這點是重點，你多久可以給本席你的精進方案？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是的，我們應該很快……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：很快是多快？是現在還是三天？"],["邱主任委員垂正：一個禮拜好嗎？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，一個禮拜把你的精進方案給本席。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員。","接下來請洪孟楷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-13","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","李柏毅","張智倫","黃捷","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","黃建賓","賴士葆","吳琪銘","丁學忠","王義川","葉元之","黃國昌","羅智強","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法\n人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進\n會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】","agenda_id":"11311101_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}