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是不法這件事情其實就像剛剛在講的這場音樂會這場音樂會目前檢調已經在查了"},{"start":68.66,"end":93.039,"text":"部長我這樣問是因為救安基金一開始設立目的應該是保障本國勞工穩定就業但主要的目標是這個當然還有其他目標那有很多弱勢的家庭包括重症患者其實他們去找他們請外籍看護去找這個救援基金他們其實我覺得也是不得已的因為家裡就有人有重症患者他必須要請外籍看護因為請本國的看護的話真的非常的貴"},{"start":93.88,"end":102.666,"text":"那在這種情況之下要他們去繳就業基金結果繳了之後被勞動部這樣濫用我覺得國人通通都不能夠接受啦那所以假設我們現在"},{"start":104.592,"end":127.423,"text":"讓這些所謂的重症患者如果他必須要請外籍看護繳救基金我們讓他們減免部長你支持嗎現在低收跟弱勢的家庭目前就是我知道我是針對比如說重度失能的因為他們其實家裡有重度失能的人其實我覺得也是對家庭來說也是一個很大的負擔"},{"start":128.257,"end":143.406,"text":"但是他們有繳就業基金結果被勞動部的高官拿去開演唱會拿去裝潢豪華辦公室我覺得社會沒辦法接受這樣的一個做法葉元我覺得我們對哪些範疇這個範疇免繳就案訂金哪些範疇比較適合擴大這事情我們可以來討論所以你認為這是可以討論的方向"},{"start":150.731,"end":175.204,"text":"我認為這是可以討論的但是就是說到底範疇要開到多大那目前是弱勢跟中低數目前我知道我們當然討論就是沒有開放的部分嘛因為現在大家外界還發現救安基金是這樣被爛用嘛比如說拿去買咖啡拿去買信封拿去買影印紙拿去清垃圾這些本來勞動部你內部的公務預算就可以編列啊為什麼要用到救援基金呢跟葉元說明齁"},{"start":177.085,"end":197.015,"text":"確實長期以來勞動部部本部的預算真的是偏低那你不能用到救安基金嘛所以很多過去長期以來就是變成是用救安基金在支應很多就不可以嘛你們勞動部如果預算不夠你要去爭取而不是用挪用救安基金這兩回事那其他部會也會覺得他的預算不夠啊他們就沒有這樣的一個基金可以挪用啊"},{"start":197.675,"end":221.027,"text":"因為我們都還會來跟國人再交情沒有部長你第一個齁我覺得不能這樣挪用啦第二個齁現在大家覺得這是一個黑箱啦因為以前大家都不知道一知道就炸鍋了你同不同意把這些細目公開就到底救安基金那麼多錢每一年幾百億到底用在哪些地方這些細目可不可以公開讓國人知道因為我們現在會是在機制面我們會來沒有沒有不是機制面我現在問說可不可以公開"},{"start":222.128,"end":247.583,"text":"可不可以公開因為現在政府要公開透明嘛你竟然被人家質疑這麼誇張你公開一下欸部長其實我對你是很有期許的我覺得你會大刀闊斧做一些不一樣的事情會政治革新你會不願意公開救安基金的細目現在在採購招標的網站上面其實一些資訊沒有那是有標案才有但是如果他是比如說清垃圾這不可能有標案吧補助費也公開了對比如買咖啡豆這不可能有公開吧"},{"start":248.163,"end":273.986,"text":"可不可以公開啦我們想要知道說你這裡還買什麼嘛有沒有買抱枕啊有沒有買一些那個其他的東西啊因為我們會在機制面沒有打關機制面的強化打關機制我們會提出一個強化的方案我問的是有能不能公開就回答我問題就好機制歸機制能不能夠公開因為像你那個咖啡棟你的信封影子這些在標案上是看不到的現在標案上面或補專上面其實都公開了沒有沒有沒有這些東西看不到這些東西看不到"},{"start":274.747,"end":302.307,"text":"你能不能夠把整個公開讓大家看一下嘛對你來說又沒有差又不是你在用你就答應公開讓大家看一下會怎麼樣葉元我沒有我沒有遮掩的意思部長你公開一下現在就算有問題也不會摔到你頭上嘛葉元我沒有要遮掩的意思好那你就公開一下因為大家其實已經有公開的部分我們其實就公開了那是有公開的部分我們現在要知道沒公開的部分嘛沒公開的部分才是大家最想知道有貓膩的嘛可不可以公開嘛就這件事情就好"},{"start":303.168,"end":317.786,"text":"各位我不太懂為什麼不能公開部長我不懂欸該公開的我們都會公開什麼叫該公開該公開不公開也是你在決定啊因為我覺得你想要掩蓋就不公開啊你不想掩蓋就公開啊要有機制面的檢視啦好好好謝謝"},{"start":320.111,"end":334.898,"text":"就不公開嘛齁結論是這個嘛我覺得要我去確定一下就對不是啦因為你這樣子我們真的會懷疑說到底有什麼現在真的勞動部部真的變成抹布的部啦掩蓋的部啦希望你回去想一想明天再公開好不好謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}