{"error":false,"id":["157886"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":157886,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157886","日期":"2024-12-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-36-18","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":18,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-12-05T11:30:01+08:00","結束時間":"2024-12-05T11:42:34+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:33","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/66a8e59aed318d2115978fdc7cd23fbfd143e698449c70dc773b3fa48179a30d0bb9a68193f37aa45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"11:30:01 - 11:42:34","會議時間":"2024-12-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員賴士葆等31人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員賴士葆等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員張智倫等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員張嘉郡等23人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員賴士葆等26人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條、第三十八條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員邱鎮軍等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）國民黨黨團擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員林思銘等26人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員陳超明等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員許宇甄等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員張智倫等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三條、第八條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十四）委員馬文君等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員傅崐萁等21人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十七）委員黃建賓等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十八）委員陳玉珍等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十九）委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案。\n（二十）委員羅智強等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n二、併案審查\n（一）委員李彥秀等18人擬具「公務人員任用法第三十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「公務人員任用法第二十八條之一條文修正草案」案。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.35034375,"end":13.429718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.716593750000001,"end":18.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.53034375,"end":18.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.70721875,"end":20.078468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.21721875,"end":23.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.26346875,"end":26.035343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.406593750000003,"end":27.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.58784375,"end":28.836593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.680343750000002,"end":32.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.73471875,"end":33.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.38846875,"end":38.016593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.016593750000006,"end":38.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.64096875,"end":44.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.05346875,"end":45.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.59346875,"end":45.610343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.31909375,"end":46.673468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.399093750000006,"end":54.385343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.54596875,"end":54.469718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.469718750000006,"end":54.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.97596875,"end":59.835968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.07721875,"end":56.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.98409375000001,"end":57.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.12284375,"end":61.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.81034375,"end":62.367218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.05909375,"end":64.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.51034375,"end":65.28659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.48909375000001,"end":68.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.50534375000001,"end":76.27221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.37346875,"end":79.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.45721875000001,"end":80.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.43596875,"end":93.50159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.99096875000001,"end":105.78659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.85409375,"end":108.08159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.36846875,"end":116.94096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.37971875000001,"end":122.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.44221875000001,"end":127.01534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.75784375,"end":128.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.44971875000002,"end":129.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.20909375,"end":134.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.62159375000002,"end":137.74784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.05159375,"end":139.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.35096875000002,"end":140.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.68409375000002,"end":143.65409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.26159375,"end":153.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.60596875000002,"end":159.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.53346875,"end":162.63846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.49909375000001,"end":164.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.62971875000002,"end":170.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.78909375,"end":176.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.76284375,"end":181.50471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":181.50471875000002,"end":182.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.02784375000002,"end":184.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.66034375,"end":187.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.00159375,"end":189.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.29659375,"end":191.71409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.46909375,"end":194.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.77284375000002,"end":194.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.95409375,"end":203.45909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.91596875000002,"end":196.27034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":204.33659375000002,"end":215.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.20534375000003,"end":207.23909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.23909375000002,"end":208.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.43284375000002,"end":210.22596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.03534375,"end":215.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.05221875,"end":215.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.08596875,"end":217.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.66784375,"end":224.19846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.50221875000003,"end":231.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.52221875,"end":233.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.00284375,"end":237.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.36096875,"end":240.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.56721875000002,"end":241.37721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.00159375,"end":245.25846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.84909375,"end":253.64534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.72971875000002,"end":254.62409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.79284375,"end":259.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.12534375,"end":260.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":260.90159375,"end":260.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.96909375,"end":261.08721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.08721875000003,"end":261.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.89721875000004,"end":266.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.04909375,"end":262.28534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.14534375,"end":269.94659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.36846875000003,"end":272.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.01784375,"end":275.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.90346875,"end":277.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.10596875000005,"end":276.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.09721875,"end":281.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.26534375,"end":282.85596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.07534375,"end":286.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.39159375,"end":287.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.24346875000003,"end":296.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.13346875,"end":289.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.79909375,"end":302.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.29596875000004,"end":305.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.62034375,"end":309.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.70409375,"end":310.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.12596875,"end":311.08784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.34096875,"end":311.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.33659375,"end":314.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.80034375,"end":320.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.63909375000003,"end":325.98846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":325.56659375000004,"end":334.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.01721875000004,"end":331.50659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.05471875,"end":353.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":342.34034375000005,"end":342.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.74534375,"end":342.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.33596875,"end":343.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.61409375,"end":346.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.67721875,"end":346.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.72784375000003,"end":346.76159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.79534375000003,"end":347.50409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.15721875,"end":356.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.95409375,"end":359.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":359.60346875000005,"end":359.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.68784375,"end":363.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.22721875,"end":366.74159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.99471875,"end":367.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.99034375,"end":368.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.63159375000004,"end":369.05346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.57659375000003,"end":373.03596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.47471875,"end":374.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.36909375000005,"end":376.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":377.42346875000004,"end":386.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.67534375,"end":386.18159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.18159375000005,"end":386.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.19846875,"end":386.56971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.56971875000005,"end":386.60346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.60346875000005,"end":412.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.04534375000003,"end":394.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":395.29409375,"end":395.85096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.26596875,"end":415.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.15159375,"end":432.19971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.26284375,"end":433.49909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.88721875000005,"end":462.54096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.92909375000005,"end":469.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.28659375,"end":470.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.32034375,"end":478.38659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.74096875000004,"end":482.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.20034375000006,"end":486.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.75659375000004,"end":489.60846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.70971875000004,"end":508.03596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.03596875000005,"end":508.81221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.94721875000005,"end":509.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.38159375000004,"end":520.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.8528437500001,"end":519.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.9622187500001,"end":532.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.1672187500001,"end":532.2178437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":532.2178437499999,"end":534.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.24721875,"end":534.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.24284375,"end":537.5503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.6853437500001,"end":542.3090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.54534375,"end":545.8190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.1228437500001,"end":549.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.41346875,"end":551.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.77596875,"end":554.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.34096875,"end":555.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.75846875,"end":555.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.9778437500001,"end":556.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.02846875,"end":556.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.1884687500001,"end":558.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.96471875,"end":564.9890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":564.9890937499999,"end":565.2422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.2422187500001,"end":565.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.29284375,"end":565.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.30971875,"end":565.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.32659375,"end":565.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.34346875,"end":565.3940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.3940937500001,"end":565.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.56284375,"end":565.9678437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.9678437499999,"end":567.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.41471875,"end":568.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.67596875,"end":571.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.5703437500001,"end":572.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.9709687500001,"end":573.6628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.33784375,"end":578.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.50596875,"end":580.8347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.95284375,"end":583.3490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.5515937499999,"end":583.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.56846875,"end":586.0490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":586.0490937500001,"end":586.0828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":586.0828437499999,"end":586.2178437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":586.2178437499999,"end":586.6228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":586.6228437500001,"end":588.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":586.6397187499999,"end":594.3515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.84096875,"end":604.7465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.8815937500001,"end":607.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":607.90221875,"end":611.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":610.73721875,"end":611.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":611.3953437499999,"end":611.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":611.96909375,"end":612.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.40784375,"end":613.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":613.97721875,"end":614.3315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.3315937500001,"end":617.9597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.24284375,"end":615.4284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":618.0947187500001,"end":623.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":624.1359687500001,"end":625.1653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":625.1653437500001,"end":625.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":626.9709687500001,"end":627.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":627.02159375,"end":629.6372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.6372187500001,"end":634.4465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":629.6540937500001,"end":634.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.90221875,"end":640.5890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":640.69034375,"end":643.2553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.2722187500001,"end":648.1828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":648.2334687499999,"end":654.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.59534375,"end":657.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":657.2109687500001,"end":672.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":672.5334687500001,"end":681.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":681.46034375,"end":703.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":703.97159375,"end":711.3459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":711.5990937500001,"end":723.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":716.3915937500001,"end":716.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":723.0234687500001,"end":739.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":723.2765937500001,"end":723.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":740.3372187500001,"end":743.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":743.6953437500001,"end":744.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":744.03284375,"end":744.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":744.48846875,"end":744.5222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":744.5222187500001,"end":744.6909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":744.6909687500001,"end":744.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":744.75846875,"end":744.8259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":744.8259687500001,"end":744.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":744.9778437500001,"end":745.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":747.2390937499999,"end":748.2009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":748.55534375,"end":752.16659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.645,"end":28.649,"text":"主席,在場的委員先進,列席的政府參議所長、官員、會長、公眾夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請我們權敘部施部長以及人事總處書務人事長。部長好,人事長好。我想呢,我的標題很清楚啊。"},{"start":29.741,"end":43.97,"text":"退休公務人員年金依法物價調整物條保障退休生活。」您同意嗎?同意。同意。那麼至於調整薪資限債職人員舉誓皆然,您認為是這樣嗎?任市長。"},{"start":47.438,"end":48.239,"text":"三）委員張智倫等16人擬具"},{"start":61.877,"end":62.318,"text":"三）委員張智倫等16人擬具"},{"start":80.498,"end":107.859,"text":"他說1995年退伍新制以來提撥的金額從來就不足以支應支出就是沒有足以提撥這個事實這個事實表達政府跟退休人員這個事實在過去幾次的精算報告中已經非常清楚指出但是問題存在我們選擇不面對不解決他是指當時的政府所造成的現象就是現在整個退伍基金已經瀕臨要破產的懸崖已經到了不得不改革的時刻"},{"start":108.439,"end":133.812,"text":"多幫這個國家的未來想一想,多幫我們下一代的未來想一想,希望真的能達成年金永續,不要把負擔交給下一代。」這是當時時代力量黨團的代表黃國昌委員陳志的呼籲。很可惜我沒有機會在他後面發言,不曉得他對這個內容是否繼續同。請問兩位部長、人事長,你們知道當時黃委員有做這樣的一個立場的發言嗎?"},{"start":135.643,"end":137.164,"text":"年金是為了保障公務員退休生活,對嗎?"},{"start":137.164,"end":141.747,"text":"112年的公務人員平均實質的月退休金是58,500元。這遠優於大概在112年全年平均每月的經常性薪資45,800元。"},{"start":164.69,"end":191.529,"text":"比當年度的每月壽星階級的中位數4萬3千8來得高那麼如果以勞保退保合計的退休人員他們大概只有領到那些在職人員喔領到3萬8請問司部長這個數字正確嗎?這個數字是根據我們的資料庫所做的統計那剛剛我提到家姐家母的情況退休教室的月退休目前是5萬9是吧?"},{"start":193.513,"end":202.277,"text":"平均中位數 平均數那麼我看到的一個資料新進的教師國小教師依學歷大概是從4萬6到5萬是起薪"},{"start":208.87,"end":223.664,"text":"教師教師一般的那個平均的那個月退休薪是比公務人員高一點是更高嘛那如果我們看到那退休公務員月退休薪五萬一嘛五萬一那麼新進公務員的月薪高考的四萬九到五萬三普考的是四萬一這也是事實嘛對"},{"start":224.585,"end":239.862,"text":"所以如果這樣說齁,如果說我們以今年度的統計資料,去年的統計資料,職場的新鮮人的薪資的中位數是三萬一,退休公務員有七成以上,現在退休的人有七成以上他們領的月退休分是五萬一,而退休教師的月退休分的中位數是五萬九,是這樣沒有錯吧?"},{"start":242.065,"end":266.052,"text":"所以如果說我們如果用這個退休制度來看其實目前軍工教育人員就我所熟悉的教育人員他們目前是比現職的教師新進教師比現在職場上的現職的教師新進教師甚至比現在在職的勞工都領得多您同意嗎應該是這個趨勢所以說我們所謂的目前目前我們往下看"},{"start":267.199,"end":268.44,"text":"撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案例"},{"start":282.261,"end":282.441,"text":"三）委員張智倫等16人擬具"},{"start":311.414,"end":326.804,"text":"撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條條文修正草案．一）委員張智�"},{"start":338.772,"end":367.121,"text":"竟管退休人員的替代率是下降,他也同時受惠,是嗎?那麼還包括CPI物條也讓他受惠,好。但是現在國民黨跟民眾黨他們希望的呢,出水量增加,但是注水量不變,那麼可能會造成限職的人員,軍公交人員退休的時候,恐怕年紀已經用盡了,是不是有這個情況?所以我們估算大概會提早4到5年。提早4到5年。所以請問一下,我現在請教一下齁,那麼"},{"start":369.642,"end":385.496,"text":"政府從納稅人拿到的這些預算是要給退休人員還是給現職的公務人員我想因為我們是實施基金所以基金本來要負擔自己應該負擔的責任那我想這是一個最正確維護基金永續經營的一個方式"},{"start":389.219,"end":402.906,"text":"當年度收來的稅金應該用給當年度為人民服務的公僕的軍工教人員。至於已經退休的軍工教人員,他用基金來維持他退休後有尊嚴的生活。是這個原則沒錯吧?是。好,那我們來看看。"},{"start":403.726,"end":431.889,"text":"好那接下來呢我先來看一下來人事長齁我大概年輕的部分問到這裡但是我還是很關注希望我們能夠對於現職的軍公教人員藥學保障這些所有的包括大專校院的兼任教師的中典費公職律師的職務合定工程員的預算提升方案國軍的一個地域加擠勞動檢查人員的風險加擠好這些所有的零零總總的是編在政府的哪些預算當中人事長"},{"start":433.285,"end":436.447,"text":"撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第十七條條文修正草案．"},{"start":463.33,"end":485.815,"text":"事實上他也有固定的收入當然會造成一些排擠效果所以退休人員跟現職的軍工人員某個程度上如果我們的立法如果我們的處置不當會造成互相的排擠造成退休人員跟現職人員在爭奪我們政府從人民納稅錢拿來的有限的大品是這樣嗎"},{"start":489.878,"end":508.137,"text":"所以明年人種的施政計畫有辦法解決缺額,待遇有辦法解決讓業界,這是我之前都問過你的,拚了過明年搶財,要你去盤點離職率高、掉職率高、缺額人數多、缺額比例過高以自願排序尾段的並且快要改單待遇方案,人事黨你願意承諾好好地解決限職軍官官員,迫切需要解決問題嗎?你可以承諾嗎?"},{"start":511.045,"end":533.727,"text":"事實上我們經常性的都會去做檢盤的一個人力的籌劃還有待遇的所以我希望人事長今天你也是一起來列席做報告我希望你的職責就是要優先保障並提高我們現職軍公教人員包括有些圍牢的人員他們的待遇好不好這是我們責務不亨待的事"},{"start":534.468,"end":556.582,"text":"我們來看一下軍人跟警校退休人員的比較軍人年資較短、退休年限制較低、妥得率較高可是相對的警校人員退休年資較長他與同等的公務員他的職等較高所以他的所得替代率跟其他公務員相同所以目前人種所定的這些知己辦法對現職人員的保障夠不夠"},{"start":558.223,"end":583.167,"text":"人事長這個基本上我們都有跟這些相關的機關有做充分的一個討論那我請司部長剛剛有一個問題你來不及講就是說年齡退休人員的平均餘命剛剛是你還是誰說因為軍警銷多數是男性所以他們的這個年齡應該跟公務人員的男性來對比是這個意思吧"},{"start":583.998,"end":607.701,"text":"對,因為他的主體是男性啦所以說如果我們現在看到一個數字說軍警校退休人員他們的平均移民較其他公務機關的人員來的短那是因為其他公務機關的人員是男女或者教育人員一起放來比而軍警校大部分是男性而我國的平均移民性別本來就是有差別你們告訴我女性多於男性多少年"},{"start":607.921,"end":624.591,"text":"我應該說女性好像現在是84歲左右多於男性幾歲多於男性76都超過78歲超過78歲嘛對那我們就知道為什麼軍警消公務退休這些人退休人員他的平均性命跟一般的公務人員來的相對於較低有沒有差到78歲"},{"start":626.494,"end":653.661,"text":"這個數字我想還在但是我印象中應該有差到這樣一個差不多就是跟性別的差別性別是有差別差不多就是跟性別的差別好明顯差別所以呢我這邊的再次的提醒拜託這個很快的人事長還是要提醒你我之前詢問過的長期缺額單位參考美軍的薪資制度以有效填補缺額增加續任意願就是我們過去的續薪方式都是以值續薪希望你會參考以薪續職可以去研究一下嗎"},{"start":655.128,"end":681.153,"text":"目前已經有在做這樣的研究好那下一個很簡單的齁那麼我之前呢也包括看到全序部的書面報告也看到人總共同研議各機關應該包括各權責主管機關對於限職人員包括非薪資以外的實物實體的物品譬如說住宿是不是能夠給予他們這些更多的一些在職時候的福利兩位這個應該是人事長這邊全序部這邊是不是都可以一起來支持"},{"start":682.574,"end":710.893,"text":"實際上今年的三月我也跟司部長一起到屏東地區我們有去針對偏遠地區的大概他裡面會有兩種樣態一個是教育人員基本上都會有提供住宿反而是一般公務人員沒有那這個部分我們也是在檢討看看要如何來改進好所以呢現職軍公教人員人事總書要加油那全書部這邊以些修法的部分我不曉得這些部分跟全書部有沒有關聯"},{"start":711.993,"end":739.708,"text":"這些部分原則上如果是福利事項因為剛剛談的那些都是廣業福利事項是歸人總來負責那如果縫擠的部分才是歸全區部這邊來負責我希望包括公務人員的縫擠法的修法建議還有公務人員加擠給予的辦法的修法建議請兩個部會共同合作來努力的提高跟保障我們限職軍公教人員尤其是圍牢辛苦的人員的待遇好嗎不管是薪資或者是實體的待遇"},{"start":740.376,"end":751.521,"text":"那我我們基本上是合作無間好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝林子丹好謝謝好謝謝總召委那下一位我們請林思明委員發言"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":487,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（11時30分）主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場的工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請銓敘部施部長以及人事總處蘇人事長。"],["主席：請施部長、蘇人事長。"],["施部長能傑：委員好！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：委員好！"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長好！人事長好！我想我的標題很清楚，退休軍公教人員年金依法物調（物價調整）保障退休生活，您同意嗎？"],["施部長能傑：同意。"],["鍾委員佳濱：同意。至於調整薪資限在職人員舉世皆然，你認為是這樣嗎？人事長。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：目前我們是雙軌在做，現職的大概就調整薪資，如果針對退休……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我就說薪資調整，我就講薪資，薪資跟年金是兩回事……"],["蘇人事長俊榮：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，我們就開始進行。今天本來在我前面發言的應該是黃國昌委員，不過他跟羅智強委員對調順序了，所以我這一題很簡單。","過去2017年的年金改革歷程，我就不再贅述，剛剛程序發言的時候我已經提過，重要的是當時時代力量黨團代表的提案說明，他說1995年退撫新制以來，提撥的金額從來就不足以支應支出（就是沒有足額提撥），這個事實（包括在職的和退休人員）在過去幾次的精算報告中已經非常清楚地指出，但是問題存在，我們選擇不面對、不解決（他是指當時的政府），所造成的現象就是現在整個退撫基金已經瀕臨要破產的懸崖、已經到了不得不改革的時刻！多幫這個國家的未來想一想，多幫我們下一代的未來想一想！希望真的能達成年金永續，不要把負擔交給下一代！這是當時時代力量黨團代表黃國昌委員誠摯的呼籲，很可惜我沒有機會在他後面發言，不曉得他對這個內容是否繼續認同。請問兩位，部長、人事長，你們知道當時黃委員有做這樣一個立場的發言嗎？"],["施部長能傑：報告委員，我不清楚，不過他講的是事實。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。我們往下看，年金是為了保障公務員的退休生活，對嘛！目前我手邊的資料看到，112年我們公務人員平均實支月退休金是5萬8,500元，這遠優於112年全年平均每人每月經常性薪資4萬5,800元，也比當年度受薪階級平均每月薪資的中位數4萬3,800元來得高，如果以勞保勞退合計的那些在職人員，大概只有領到3萬8,000元。請問施部長，這個數字正確嗎？"],["施部長能傑：這個數字是根據我們的資料庫所做的統計。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，剛剛我提到家母家姊的情況，退休教師的月退休俸目前是5萬9,000元，是吧！平均、中位數。"],["施部長能傑：差不多。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，平均數。我看到一個資料，新進國小教師依學歷大概4萬6,000元到5萬是起薪……"],["施部長能傑：委員，我是不是插個嘴，剛剛您說您家姊是教師嘛！"],["鍾委員佳濱：年改後退休的。"],["施部長能傑：教師嘛！"],["鍾委員佳濱：他是教師。"],["施部長能傑：教師一般平均月退休金是比公務人員高一點。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是更高。如果我們看到退休公務員的月退休俸，大概5萬1,000元嘛！"],["施部長能傑：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，5萬1,000元。新進公務員的月薪，高考的4萬9,000元到5萬3,000元，普考的是4萬1,000元，這也是事實嘛！"],["施部長能傑：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以如果我們以去年度的統計資料，職場新鮮人薪資的中位數是3萬1,000元，現在退休公務員有七成以上領的月退休俸是5萬1,000元，而退休教師月退休俸的中位數是5萬9,000元，是這樣沒有錯吧！如果我們用這個退休制度來看，其實目前退休軍公教人員（包括我所熟悉的教育人員）是比現在職場上的現職教師、新進教師，甚至比現在在職的勞工，都領得多，您同意嗎？"],["施部長能傑：應該是這個趨勢。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，目前我們的退休人員如果所得替代率下降，為什麼他實際領到的年金會增加，什麼原因？"],["施部長能傑：主要是有隨著物價指數的調整，我想這是最重要的，因為退休所得是會調整的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：還有吧！因為他替代率的分母是根據什麼？"],["施部長能傑：對，分母，用本俸的兩倍來算的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：而本俸是逐漸往上調的。"],["施部長能傑：對，而且本俸兩倍其實本來就高於他實際上的本俸加專業加給。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的，現在退休人員所得替代率的分母是以當年度退休人員的兩倍本俸去算的，分母越大，他的所得替代率算出來，得到的就越大……"],["施部長能傑：淨值就越大。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以目前為止就我所知道的，改革新制（年改）之後，退休人員實際領的年金事實上是不減反增的，儘管替代率是下降，但實際拿到的年金是不降反增，是嗎？"],["施部長能傑：事實上是這樣，因為過去年改以後，我們現職人員又調薪，所以他退休的時候，薪水本來就是比較高去計算的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，所以政府往上調整現職人員的本俸，儘管退休人員的替代率是下降，他也同時受惠，是嘛！"],["施部長能傑：是的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：還包括CPI物調，也讓他受惠。"],["施部長能傑：對，沒錯。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，但現在國民黨及民眾黨希望的是出水量增加，但是注水量不變，可能會造成現職軍公教人員退休的時候，恐怕年金已經用罄了，是不是有這個情況？"],["施部長能傑：所以我們估算大概會提早4到5年。"],["鍾委員佳濱：提早4到5年，所以我現在請教一下，部長，政府從納稅人拿到的這些預算是要給退休人員，還是給現職的公務人員？"],["施部長能傑：我想因為我們事實是基金，基金本來就要負擔自己應該負擔的責任，這是一個最正確維護基金永續經營的方式。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，所以你的意思是我們政府當年度收來的稅金應該用給當年度為人民服務的公僕（軍公教人員）……"],["施部長能傑：這當然最優先。"],["鍾委員佳濱：至於已經退休的軍公教人員，政府用基金來維持他退休後有尊嚴的生活，是這個原則，沒錯吧！"],["施部長能傑：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，年金的部分我大概問到這裡，但是我還是很關注，希望我們對於現職的軍公教人員要有保障。","接下來，人事長，螢幕上這些所有的計畫，包括大專校院兼任教師鐘點費、公職律師職務、核定工程人員待遇提升方案、國軍的地域加給、勞動檢查人員的風險加給，所有這些林林總總的是編在政府的哪些預算當中？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：這編在政府的人事費裡面。"],["鍾委員佳濱：人事費裡面，是年度預算支給的嘛！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：對、對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，如果未來我們的年度預算因為財政收支劃分法，中央政府沒有這些錢了，或者我們要把這些錢拿去挹注退休人員的基金，是否這些現職人員就得不到這些待遇的提升，尤其最重要的是警察、消防、移民及空中勤務輪班輪休人員的深夜危勞性津貼支給，他們會因此而領不到，是不是這樣子？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：事實上，因為固定的收入，當然會造成一些排擠效果。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以退休人員跟現職的軍公教人員，某個程度上，如果我們的立法、處置不當，會造成互相的排擠，造成退休人員跟現職人員在爭奪我們政府從人民納稅錢拿來的有限大餅，是這樣嘛！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：基本上，是這樣的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。明年人總的施政計畫有辦法解決缺額？待遇有辦法追上業界？這都是我之前問過你的。拚得過民間搶才嗎？要你去盤點離職率高、調職率高、缺額人數多、缺額比例過高以及志願排序尾段的單位，並規劃改善待遇方案。人事長，你願意承諾好好地解決現職軍公教人員迫切需要解決的問題嗎？你可以承諾嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：事實上，我們經常性都會去做全盤人力的籌劃，還有待遇的改善。"],["鍾委員佳濱：人事長，今天你也是一起來列席做報告，我希望你的職責就是要優先保障並提高我們現職軍公教人員，尤其危勞人員，他們的待遇，好不好？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：這是我們責無旁貸的責任。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。接下來，我們來看一下軍人跟警消退休人員的比較，軍人退休年資較短，退休年齡限制較低，所得替代率較高；相對的，警消人員退休年資較長，退休年齡限制等同公務人員，但職等較高，他的所得替代率跟其他公務人員相同，所以目前人總所訂的這些支給辦法對於現職人員的保障夠不夠？人事長。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：基本上，這個我們都有跟這些相關機關做充分的討論。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。我請施部長，剛剛有一個問題，你來不及講，就是退休人員的平均餘命，剛剛是你還是誰說，因為軍警消多數是男性，所以他們的這個年齡應該跟公務人員的男性來對比，是這個意思吧？"],["施部長能傑：對，因為他的主體是男性……"],["鍾委員佳濱：是，所以……"],["施部長能傑：女性的比例不高。"],["鍾委員佳濱：如果我們現在看到一個數字說軍警消退休人員的平均餘命較其他公務機關的人員來得短，那是因為其他公務機關的人員是男女或者把教育人員放一起來比的，而軍警消大部分是男性，而我國的平均餘命性別本來就是有差別，你能不能告訴我女性平均餘命多於男性多少年？"],["施部長能傑：我印象中女性好像現在是84歲左右。"],["鍾委員佳濱：多於男性幾歲？"],["施部長能傑：男性76歲，超過7、8歲。"],["鍾委員佳濱：超過7、8歲嘛！"],["施部長能傑：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我們就知道為什麼軍警消這些退休人員的平均餘命跟一般公務人員來得相對於較低，有沒有差到7、8歲？"],["施部長能傑：這個數字還要再確認，我印象中應該有差到這樣一個……"],["鍾委員佳濱：差不多就是像性別的差別。"],["施部長能傑：性別是有差別、明顯的差別。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以我這邊再次提醒，拜託，人事長，還是要提醒你，我之前詢問過長期缺額的單位參考美軍的薪津制度以有效填補缺額，增加續任意願，我們過去的敘薪方式都是以職敘薪，希望你能參考以薪敘職，可以回去研究一下嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：有，目前已經有在做這樣的研究。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，下一個很簡單，包括之前銓敘部的書面報告，我有看到與人總共同研議的部分，各機關、包括各權責主管機關，對於現職人員，包括非薪資以外的實物──實體的物品，譬如說住宿，是不是能夠給予他們更多一些在職時的福利？兩位，這個應該是人事長這邊、銓敘部這邊是不是都可以一起來支持？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：有，事實上，像今年的3月，我也跟施部長一起到屏東地區，我們有針對偏遠地區，大概裡面會有兩種樣態，一個是教育人員，基本上都會提供住宿，反而是一般公務人員沒有，這個部分我們也在檢討，看看要如何來改進。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，所以現職軍公教人員，人事總處要加油，銓敘部這邊有關修法的部分，我不曉得這些部分跟銓敘部有沒有關聯？"],["施部長能傑：這些部分原則上如果是福利事項，因為剛剛談的那些都是廣義的福利事項，是歸人總來負責，俸給的部分才是歸銓敘部這邊來負責。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，所以我希望包括公務人員俸給法的修法建議，還有公務人員加給給與辦法的修法建議，請兩個部會共同合作，來努力提高跟保障我們現職軍公教人員，尤其是危勞辛苦人員的待遇好嗎？不管是薪資或是實體待遇。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們基本上是合作無間。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝，謝謝部長、謝謝人事長。"],["主席：謝謝鍾召委。","下一位我們請林思銘委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-18","speakers":["吳宗憲","賴士葆","翁曉玲","張嘉郡","羅智強","黃建賓","林思銘","張智倫","黃健豪","許宇甄","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","王義川","李彥秀","吳沛憶","沈伯洋","林宜瑾","陳俊宇","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","林德福","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","李坤城","林楚茵","張雅琳","黃秀芳","林淑芬","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","陳素月","徐富癸","賴惠員","吳秉叡","許智傑","陳培瑜","郭國文"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-05"],"gazette_id":"1140301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)委員賴士葆等31人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」\n案、(二)委員賴士葆等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)\n委員張智倫等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員張嘉\n郡等23人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員賴士葆等26人\n擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「公\n務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條、第三十八條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員邱鎮\n軍等25 人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、( 八) 國民黨黨團擬具\n「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員林思銘等26人擬具「公務人\n員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員陳超明等19人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員許宇甄等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員張智倫等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三條、第八條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員馬文君等20人擬具「公務人員退\n休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員傅崐萁等21人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員黃建賓等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十八)委員陳玉珍等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十\n八條條文修正草案」案、(二十)委員羅智強等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條\n文修正草案」案；二、併案審查(一)委員李彥秀等18人擬具「公務人員任用法第三十六條之一條\n文修正草案」案、(二)委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「公務人員任用法第二十八條之一條文修正草案」\n案","agenda_id":"1140301_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}