{"error":false,"id":["157896"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":157896,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157896","日期":"2024-12-05","影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-12-05T13:16:42+08:00","結束時間":"2024-12-05T13:28:39+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:57","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/66a8e59aed318d215acd9b31590ecfd0a99904554a4baaac871116ad264925f51c587096f49c00dc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"13:16:42 - 13:28:39","會議時間":"2024-12-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員第1次聯席會議（事由：審查\n一、委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員陳菁徽等20人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員黃捷等22人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n四、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員范雲等16人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員林楚茵等18人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員王育敏等18人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員黃秀芳等18人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n九、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十、委員林月琴等17人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十一、國民黨黨團擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員洪申翰、范雲等21人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員吳沛憶等18人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、委員林淑芬等18人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、委員張雅琳等21人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.06471875,"end":0.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.51909375,"end":9.497843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.20659375,"end":11.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.09159375,"end":17.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.63159375,"end":18.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.03659375,"end":31.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.95909375,"end":28.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.58721875,"end":61.945343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.56971875000001,"end":69.70784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.96096875,"end":72.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.15034375,"end":73.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.19659375,"end":83.39346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.37221875,"end":86.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.65034375,"end":92.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.53971875,"end":104.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.65596875,"end":106.63034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.95096875,"end":109.76909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.05596875,"end":116.77221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.73409375000001,"end":121.39596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.10471875,"end":131.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.56721875,"end":136.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.89971875,"end":147.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.10909375,"end":150.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.53909375,"end":154.97721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.82096875000002,"end":168.83159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.23659375,"end":170.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.93659375000001,"end":199.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.11784375000002,"end":207.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.77909375000002,"end":209.73659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.97284375,"end":223.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.55284375000002,"end":234.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.50471875000002,"end":244.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.71846875000003,"end":252.09284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.95346875,"end":255.82221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.24409375,"end":257.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.83034375,"end":260.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.49659375000005,"end":261.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.55971875,"end":263.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.58471875000004,"end":264.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.34409375,"end":265.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.67284375,"end":267.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.27596875,"end":273.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.28346875,"end":275.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.56596875,"end":278.80596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.17721875,"end":280.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.48909375,"end":283.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.18909375000004,"end":287.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.90159375,"end":297.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.34721875,"end":302.36346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.97096875,"end":305.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.16034375000004,"end":327.22034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.49034375,"end":349.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.06909375000004,"end":351.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.70596875,"end":356.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.52784375000005,"end":358.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.54034375000003,"end":361.88159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.53971875,"end":371.26409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.83784375000005,"end":376.15784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.88346875,"end":382.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.46909375,"end":383.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.90346875,"end":387.26159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.10534375000003,"end":394.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.15909375,"end":397.63971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.60159375,"end":399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案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案"},{"start":62.988,"end":87.478,"text":"其實大家也一直在說賴清德當時候的委員在2002年的時候第5屆第一會期他那時候也擔任召委所以他們提出那個人工生殖法草案的過程裡面也是有非常多的討論在處理當中後來為什麼會針對這個人工生殖法得到一個最後的結論"},{"start":89.279,"end":115.517,"text":"的確那個時候包括賴醫師還有簡兆棟醫師這都是我們的前輩很可惜簡兆棟醫師是剛好最近他過世了非常可惜他們是同意的同意的理由是因為他們認為醫學科技進步到現在那個當時應該要讓想孕但身體不允許的女性有代理孕母這種選擇方式"},{"start":117.798,"end":131.249,"text":"但是同時那個時候也是另外一個高明健醫師他是個神尖外科醫師他代表親民黨另外國民黨的梁立煌立委他們都持相位保守的一個態度"},{"start":132.628,"end":156.711,"text":"他們保守態度並不是說認為這個在技術上的問題而是很擔心如果草率通過的話可能會導致代理孕母犯難衝擊原來的夫妻關係因為畢竟嬰兒是有生命的不像商品賣掉就沒事了我想跟我們今天討論的過程應該是還是有一些類似"},{"start":157.632,"end":180.253,"text":"所以最後的結果就是他在提案三年以後就因為這個相關的關係法案主要都是為了要確保不孕者與人工生殖子女的權益將提出新版本那時候賴總統賴清德委員是這樣講那刪除原版有關代理孕母的章節那時候行政院也準備要針對代理"},{"start":181.434,"end":206.224,"text":"擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案。」案。因為這樣的努力跟後來經過大家的這些折衝以後終於這個2007年三讀通過沒有包含代理孕母的人工生殖法這個是今天今天是12月3號經濟日報一個報導我想這樣相對可以讓大家更理解雖然賴總統"},{"start":207.705,"end":234.532,"text":"在那個時候是非常認同人工生殖法裡面如果有相關的這個代孕的話是有幫助需要的有需求者可是也因為有太多不同的想法跟意見所以經過處理以後人工生殖法那時候就沒有包含這個代理孕母的部分所以我想透過這個報導大家也可以比較清楚知道"},{"start":235.552,"end":254.953,"text":"在總統並沒有改變他的意見他只是因為各種處理的需求之下我們現在看到了這個結果那從這邊來出發我們來了解為什麼為什麼我們會認為需要透過我們針對於婦女懷孕到生產到胎兒當中"},{"start":256.354,"end":280.553,"text":"有多少風險大家應該不要以為懷孕生產是很自然很低風險的一個對於要當媽媽的人還是需要注意這樣的風險對於社會來講他也要注意到要生產生一個寶寶出來不是那麼容易那這個風險到底有多高"},{"start":281.514,"end":300.276,"text":"我們可以看到到2021年那一年的新生兒死亡人數是425人每千位的活產裡面死亡率是2.7為了要懷一個寶寶要生產當年的孕婦死亡22人每死亡活產就有14位"},{"start":301.397,"end":326.904,"text":"那這樣的成績跟全球比起來到底好不好?其實如果跟OECD國家比較起來我們真的是有很大需要進步的空間因為我們跟日本跟韓國比起來這個數字呢都是會讓我們心驚膽跳人數看起來好像不多可是比例我們應該可以讓它更改善這是孕婦死亡的部分"},{"start":327.504,"end":329.505,"text":"在科學上很難做到零死亡,我們都理解。可是如果其他國家可以那麼好,那台灣我們可以怎麼做會比較好呢?"},{"start":351.779,"end":370.916,"text":"我們在請部長回答之前我們先了解一下人工生殖出來的這些寶寶們他們其實有一些是具有人工缺陷人工造成了一些身體或體狀上的問題那這個萬一是代理孕母生下來以後其實前面的委員也都"},{"start":372.017,"end":397.347,"text":"一、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案﹚立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案﹚立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修正草案案﹚立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修正草案案﹚立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修正草案案﹚立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修"},{"start":399.669,"end":426.157,"text":"我想這個就是我們現在的一個健康數據裡面我們醫界的一個痛點也是我們一直想要努力的在健康台灣裡面也特別針對新生偶死亡率的一個降低來做一個非常大的重要的目標我想這個從運期到新生偶的團隊"},{"start":428.234,"end":451.356,"text":"擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 與產後的照顧,這都是要來給足夠的資源,才有辦法把剛剛提的這幾個事據來講。」總統在打掉健康台灣裡面其實也針對這些問題也編了很多要求跟很多經費一起來改善,所以討論到今天的這個草案裡面第6條"},{"start":452.717,"end":476.368,"text":"包括說人工生殖子女最佳利益我們會有一些方式來請做一些後續的處理做一些遵循事項的一些要求那第23條委託這個配偶委託代理孕母的代孕之前要有很多的諮詢那第30條代理服務機構的資格等等這個將來如果立法"},{"start":476.988,"end":484.294,"text":"擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案"},{"start":492.461,"end":508.853,"text":"等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1次聯席會議．立法院第2次聯席會議．立法院第3次聯席會議．立法院第4次聯席會議．立法院第5次聯席會議．立法院第6次聯席會議．立法院第7次聯席會議．立法院第8次聯席會議．立法院第9次聯席會議．立法院第10次聯席會議．立法院第11次聯席會議．立法院第12次聯席會議．立法院第13次聯席會議．立法院第14次聯席會議．立法院"},{"start":514.957,"end":522.179,"text":"擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案"},{"start":543.287,"end":552.781,"text":"有關於代理孕母入法其實還有三個地方要非常注意的包括說我們剛剛有看到台灣目前不管是"},{"start":554.284,"end":580.492,"text":"自然生產或者是透過人工生殖法所生出來的這些寶寶們他們的醫療跟健康風險目前似乎是無法排除的那如果無法排除的話那萬一代理孕母又入法那從人權、從倫理還有法律的角度那我們可以允許健康風險轉嫁到另外一位他要幫人家做一個代理孕母的這些"},{"start":581.732,"end":589.071,"text":"擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案"},{"start":591.493,"end":595.655,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員及法制委員等19人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案。"},{"start":613.666,"end":631.205,"text":"好,這也是大家所擔心的啦齁,那我想我們未來齁,在第二階段的來處理這個部分的時候,會把這些問題,不管是在他的位階,或者他的內容,做更周全的討論跟共識。是。"},{"start":632.746,"end":658.276,"text":"所以如果能夠讓已經有很好共識而且基本上那風險相對是可以接受的我們希望他能夠在這個可以討論之下大家共同來確立那如果是真的非常非常多的這些不同意見的話我想真的大家要三思那最後其實要麻煩部裡面要來加強對代理孕母醫療風險的研究我們剛剛看到的是"},{"start":659.056,"end":679.903,"text":"一般的這些懷孕的過程裡面不管是死亡率或者是這個新生兒的這些問題那對於代理孕母他有多少風險也許當然我們自己台灣沒有相關的資料可是國際上應該有一些資料可以當參考那今年的在6月25號報導者他們就有報導相關的經驗給大家做參考"},{"start":684.365,"end":712.465,"text":"另外荷蘭針對於代理孕母10年的經驗裏面他們是立他的這種代理孕母之下他們研究發現說代理孕母跟一般的這個來孕的過程其實真的風險是不一樣的所以這些資訊希望透過部裏面不管是要自行研究或委託專家學者來做研究也希望讓這個資訊能夠讓更多的民眾可以知悉好的我們在這方面再收集更多的資料"},{"start":713.608,"end":713.89,"text":"主席王偉仁"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}