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14:05:20","會議時間":"2024-12-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員第1次聯席會議（事由：審查\n一、委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員陳菁徽等20人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員黃捷等22人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n四、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員范雲等16人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員林楚茵等18人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員王育敏等18人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員黃秀芳等18人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n九、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十、委員林月琴等17人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十一、國民黨黨團擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員洪申翰、范雲等21人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員吳沛憶等18人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、委員林淑芬等18人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、委員張雅琳等21人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.8572187499999995,"end":8.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.704718750000001,"end":9.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.484718750000003,"end":12.771593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.796593750000003,"end":15.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.589718750000003,"end":16.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.500968750000002,"end":17.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.812843750000003,"end":19.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.96034375,"end":25.292843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.63846875,"end":30.844718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.01346875,"end":38.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.74221875,"end":53.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.85784375,"end":74.12909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.26409375,"end":80.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.10721875,"end":80.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.06471875000001,"end":82.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.11534375000001,"end":85.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.85721875,"end":95.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.90221875,"end":95.42534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.42534375000001,"end":102.19221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.88409375,"end":111.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.82784375000001,"end":112.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.39721875000001,"end":125.98596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.94784375,"end":128.87159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.95596875,"end":133.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.96784375000001,"end":140.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.27471875,"end":145.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.99971875,"end":146.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.01659375,"end":148.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.22721875000002,"end":156.71534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.01909375,"end":162.95909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.99284375000002,"end":169.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.82721875000001,"end":176.50971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.86409375000002,"end":185.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.24659375000002,"end":192.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.72659375,"end":197.67096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.62034375000002,"end":199.61159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.01659375000003,"end":209.44971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.66909375,"end":213.16221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.56721875000002,"end":215.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.65909375,"end":220.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.08096875,"end":220.41846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.41846875000002,"end":247.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.43534375000002,"end":220.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.85721875000002,"end":249.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.77659375000002,"end":273.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.99659375000005,"end":274.45221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.00909375000003,"end":280.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.91534375000003,"end":292.76159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.30159375,"end":294.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.65159375,"end":295.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.93409375000005,"end":299.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.78159375,"end":303.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.93284375,"end":305.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.73846875000004,"end":311.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.64034375,"end":313.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.07471875000005,"end":317.19659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.59721875,"end":332.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.73034375000003,"end":335.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.20659375,"end":364.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.15534375000004,"end":374.33534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.84159375,"end":375.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.38159375000004,"end":375.73596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEA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那我想問一下因為這個流程上面我有一個疑點我也想要請教一下就是說你剛剛有提到說我們現在預告嘛預告完之後呢收集意見之後嘛還有在這個性別影響評估的這個流程還在進行中嘛那我想問"},{"start":146.095,"end":162.709,"text":"對嗎?目前在性別影響評估中。對嘛,現在性別影響評估還在進行中嘛,對不對?我這個只是想請教這個流程上面喔,你看喔,如果我今天預告收集了非常多的意見回來,那我的性別影響性評估裡面萬一跟這個意見有對立的時候,那要怎麼處理呢?"},{"start":167.412,"end":191.989,"text":"我只在想提出一個討論哪一個想法未來我們是不是有可能先做一個性別影響性評估先了解因為這是一個很重大的法案嘛影響到女性的身體自主權嘛我們是不是可以先做這個性別影響性評估之後再把它併入這個再把它進入這個預告的流程呢這樣子收集來的回見意見我們會不會比較好收斂呢"},{"start":193.128,"end":215.288,"text":"我們未來會尊重先這樣的整體的規定,如果是可以修訂我們可以討論。好,這邊就是提供一個參考。那再來就是說,我想要針對於就是,因為大家在講這些待遇的時候,其實我比較少聽見有關於兒童權利的相關的討論。所以我也想要請教,就是部長可不可以也一併一起上來?"},{"start":219.67,"end":248.823,"text":"委員好就是說我們現在公布的這個草文條案跟兒童有關係的是42條到第46條那有關於兒童在成長階段對於自己的身世感到疑惑想要進一步了解自己身世的時候有關的條文就是在上面寫的這一條子女有權查詢捐贈人的種族膚色和血型以及其他有沒有違反醫療資訊或違反法律的情形但是我們也有另外一條其實是有規定"},{"start":251.656,"end":273.002,"text":"擬具:「醫療機構要收集捐贈人的身份證字號和病歷等資訊,有身份證字號基本上就跟你有個資是一模一樣的東西。」所以到底在這個立法說明上面呢,你們說是這樣的資訊落差呢是要在平衡這個捐贈人的隱私以及人工生殖子女的血緣認知權和兒少最佳利益。"},{"start":274.042,"end":298.503,"text":"那我想問喔如果說我們現在這個法規執行的那就有可能人工生殖的子女在成長過程之中他如果想要了解自己的身世的時候他只能得到膚色、種族以及血型但是他明明就知道政府和醫療機構其實擁有所有的個資這條法告訴他就是我們都知道但你不能查詢我想了解這件事情呢到底會不會影響到"},{"start":300.225,"end":317.103,"text":"對自己的定位、對自己的認知產生疑惑,會不會影響到他的生長,在這過程之中有沒有什麼樣的挫折,會不會影響到他自己各種的一些認同等等的。我想知道這個兒童權益的影響性評估到底有沒有做啊?"},{"start":319.136,"end":333.694,"text":"我們這個預告版的確有做兒童權益最佳評估那現在的透過版也有在做兒童就是權益評估我想知道可不可以再給我簡單的說明是怎麼做的呢"},{"start":334.295,"end":358.974,"text":"就是我們的兒少的委員來幫我們審查整個法案到底有沒有哪一些缺失或者哪一些需要改進的哪一些違反兒少權利的部分這個是當初所規定的那這個法條的設計其實跟委員報告兒童成長到18歲成年或者是他中間碰到有一些生理疾病會得導致現身血緣的關係的時候那他可以提出請求要支息"},{"start":360.194,"end":381.609,"text":"當然也要尊重當初見證者同不同意,如果同意的話就可以讓他自息。所以我想確認一下,聽起來在這個部分我們在兒少影響性評估的時候,專家學者有提供的意見就是到18歲的時候他可以請求,是嗎?是。我也想了解另外一個問題是說,如果今天這個小孩他是先天性疾患,"},{"start":382.863,"end":409.52,"text":"他出生了那這個時候他到底代理育母說要託付要請代理育母生的這個就算埋主好了啦這個埋主他說這個小孩我不要那代理育母也沒有辦法去照顧他的時候那這個小孩大概怎麼辦啊這個法律上規定的就是說當他委託企業成立了以後未來剩下來的子女就是委託這個"},{"start":411.431,"end":425.558,"text":"未來判斷的子女就是委託者是不是?好那如果說在這個假設他在成長的過程之中遇到了一些假設這個委託者就心不甘情不願啊把他送出去啊送養的話那這個對這樣子的小孩子來說公平嗎?這個必須要說法律上規定我們在CA上就已經有說明了跟委員做報告那如果未來假設有這樣的這個法律進行討論的時候有規模不足的時候也謝謝委員給我們指導"},{"start":440.37,"end":460.172,"text":"好沒關係齁因為我想要了解因為你們竟然說你有做兒少的影響性評估嘛那我就希望把這完整的報告提供到我的辦公室我想要來詳細的研讀到底有哪些部分我們還應該要再來去做討論的齁因為我覺得這個兒少的權益是在我的所有討論中比較少聽見的齁那再來喔就是說呃"},{"start":469.904,"end":493.961,"text":"草案第21條有規定委託配偶的身份條件。其中第一項第五款第四目裡面有規定同志家庭的身份。第四目說委託的配偶都必須是男性,就可以委託進行人工生殖。第五目則說女同志家庭必須兩邊都有無子宮無法懷孕免疫疾病生命威脅,其中一項狀況才能進行人工生殖。"},{"start":494.921,"end":518.814,"text":"我想請教我有點疑惑男同志家庭沒有上述的健康疑慮就可以委託做這個人工生殖嗎?但是為什麼女同志家庭一定要雙方都有生理上的疑慮才能委託呢?這個法條設計是什麼?是基於什麼樣子的原因呢?所以我們已經假設女同志家庭一定會代孕嗎?其中一人一定會代孕嗎?假設他要做代孕的話"},{"start":522.255,"end":541.992,"text":"這兩個是不一樣跟剛剛提到的如果是女同志她自己用自己的那當然就在人工生殖法去規定的這個是有關代孕的部分而且在上面寫的就是說他必須就是委託的那委託才有這個限制委託的時候才會有這個限制嗎可是男生男同志上面好像就沒有相關的健康疑慮就可以委託進行人工生殖這好像是對於女同志來說要求比較高"},{"start":550.219,"end":552.881,"text":"等19人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案。"},{"start":574.575,"end":600.266,"text":"發言去講這是女人和女人的戰爭我認為這樣子的一個發言其實是非常輕蔑的因為這其實是對女性影響非常盛大的重大的一個法案而且這個法案之所以會起來都是有相當多的女性是為了男人去滿足傳宗接代的任務所以今天才會有一部分的人必須去做這樣子的事情"},{"start":601.126,"end":615.33,"text":"我認為身為一位男性,尤其還是一位醫師的蘇清泉召委,不應該以一種隔岸觀火的態度來看待這個法案。我希望未來蘇清泉委員在相關的發言上面都可以更為慎重,而且更有性別平等的意識。謝謝。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}