{"error":false,"id":["157908"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":157908,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157908","日期":"2024-12-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-36-18","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":18,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-12-05T14:33:48+08:00","結束時間":"2024-12-05T14:39:44+08:00","影片長度":"00:05:56","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/66a8e59aed318d2131d75abf871a887dd143e698449c70dc90a1da7b6f6bcb9d0a3ad233f9b498fc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"14:33:48 - 14:39:44","會議時間":"2024-12-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員賴士葆等31人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員賴士葆等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員張智倫等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員張嘉郡等23人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員賴士葆等26人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條、第三十八條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員邱鎮軍等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）國民黨黨團擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員林思銘等26人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員陳超明等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員許宇甄等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員張智倫等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三條、第八條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十四）委員馬文君等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員傅崐萁等21人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十七）委員黃建賓等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十八）委員陳玉珍等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十九）委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案。\n（二十）委員羅智強等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n二、併案審查\n（一）委員李彥秀等18人擬具「公務人員任用法第三十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「公務人員任用法第二十八條之一條文修正草案」案。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.98721875,"end":11.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.919093750000002,"end":17.445968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.83409375,"end":19.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.38659375,"end":19.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.05721875,"end":21.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.27221875,"end":24.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.75284375,"end":28.043468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.22909375,"end":30.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.06409375,"end":44.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.52159375,"end":47.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.07409375,"end":49.204718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.166593750000004,"end":54.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.56659375,"end":56.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.798468750000005,"end":62.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.244718750000004,"end":63.51471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.03784375000001,"end":64.45971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.81409375,"end":66.95721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.69971875,"end":68.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.69534375,"end":72.86346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.28534375000001,"end":75.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.06971875,"end":80.69346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.57096875,"end":84.05159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.57471875,"end":86.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.22409375000001,"end":92.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.11346875000001,"end":94.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.54346875,"end":96.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.14659375000001,"end":100.26846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.85909375,"end":101.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.36096875000001,"end":105.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.97221875000001,"end":109.29659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.11909375,"end":113.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.83159375000001,"end":115.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.70471875000001,"end":120.70409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.17659375000001,"end":125.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.22659375,"end":129.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.20471875,"end":130.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.52096875,"end":131.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.14096875,"end":136.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.92096875000001,"end":138.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.24971875,"end":140.26221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.65034375000002,"end":143.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.78909375,"end":144.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.71721875,"end":146.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.29909375,"end":148.69971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.49284375000002,"end":150.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.66971875000002,"end":152.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.10409375,"end":154.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.52159375000002,"end":156.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.22159375,"end":157.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.11596875,"end":158.82471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.78659375,"end":160.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.69784375,"end":163.39784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.88721875000002,"end":164.61284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.18659375000001,"end":166.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.60409375,"end":167.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.07221875000002,"end":169.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.97909375,"end":171.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_0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。"},{"start":87.667,"end":115.667,"text":"還有勞工也在這個包括移民企業雇主相關的這些代表都成為總統府國家年金改革委員會然後由副總統當時的副總統陳建仁擔任這個召集委員召集人總共召開了多少次的會議呢二十次啊"},{"start":117.499,"end":135.599,"text":"總共召開了二十次的會議。第二十次的會議是在105年11月10號。所以這個時間是很密集的、很積極的來去開會。那為什麼還要找勞工呢?因為一樣的。"},{"start":136.963,"end":154.556,"text":"撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體"},{"start":159.861,"end":188.579,"text":"所謂的那個勞保或是工保這些也都面臨今天一直談論的這些破產的問題都有勞工的也不是也是所以起碼我們如果從現在的數據來看勞工因為當時執政的政府當時的行政院"},{"start":189.582,"end":200.931,"text":"撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案 案件,並不提出相關年改的這些勞保的勞工的部分所以這幾年撥補2670億透過人民的納稅錢去撥補這個我支持我支持但是為什麼"},{"start":213.007,"end":237.139,"text":"針對軍公教警消卻不是同一個方式去解決,卻不是用撥補的方式,這個就是非常大的一個偏頗。對軍公教警消而言,尤其是已經退休的軍公教警消還受及既往啊。好,我們就接下來談"},{"start":240.178,"end":266.894,"text":"這個總統府所成立的國家年金改革委員會開了20次會議考試院依據也就是參考依據了這個年改會議國家年金改革委員會的相關的這些討論的結果你們提出了當時的考試院提出了版本送到立法院來審查"},{"start":269.564,"end":292.007,"text":"審查的結果當時民進黨的立法委員絕對多數在這個場合司法法制委員會三天三夜開會結果用誰的版本是用段宜康及其他民進黨立委所提出來的版本來通過"},{"start":293.834,"end":299.455,"text":"法定人數不足以採取公務人員退休資遣撫卹法定人數不足以採取公務人員退休資遣撫卹法定人數不足以採取公務人員退休"},{"start":324.081,"end":337.851,"text":"卻是立法委員的版本而不是總統府的國家年金改革委員會所以這個部分既然實施已經這麼多年了就應該要來再檢討"},{"start":340.854,"end":353.866,"text":"現在這個時刻就是檢討的時刻所以我們要好好的審查這一段時間我們立委的一些提案以上"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1006,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（14時34分）主席、各位委員，有請銓敘部。"],["主席：麻煩施部長。"],["施部長能傑：委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長好。這個還是要質詢部長，因為這個是你主要的業務，人事長是間接，但也是主要啦！上次我有跟你提過，那時候主要是質詢考試院秘書長，105年6月8日，也就是蔡總統上任之後一個多月，總統府就成立了國家年金改革委員會，這個國家年金改革委員會邀請了各界人士，包含考試院、行政院、考試委員的代表、退休軍公教人員、現職的軍公教代表、勞工、漁民、企業雇主相關的這些代表，都成為總統府國家年金改革委員，然後由當時的副總統陳建仁擔任召集人，總共召開了多少次的會議呢？20次啊！總共召開了20次的會議，第20次的會議是在105年11月10日，所以這個時間是很密集的，很積極的開會。","那為什麼還要找勞工呢？因為一樣的，勞工也有所謂的勞保年金破產的問題，所以都要一起去解決，無論是勞保的、軍人的、公務員的、教師的，都要共同的去解決，而且這些所謂的勞保或是公保也都面臨今天一直談論的破產問題，勞工的也是，最起碼我們如果從現在的數據來看，勞工因為當時執政黨政府──行政院勞動部沒有提出勞保勞工部分的相關年改，所以這幾年撥補了2,670億，透過人民的納稅錢去撥補，這個我支持，我支持！但是為什麼針對軍公教、警消卻不是同一個方式去解決、不是用撥補的方式？這個就是非常大的一個偏頗，對軍公教、警消而言、尤其是已經退休的軍公教、警消還溯及既往。","好，我們就接下來談總統府所成立的國家年金改革委員會開了20次會議，考試院參考依據國家年金改革委員會會議相關的討論結果，考試院提出了版本送到立法院來審查，審查的結果當時民進黨的立法委員是絕對多數，在司法及法制委員會這個場合三天三夜開會，結果用誰的版本？是用段宜康及其他民進黨立委所提出來的版本通過。考試院所送來的版本是依據國家年金改革委員會的版本哦，但是通過的是段宜康砍得更嚴重、更大砍的版本！這個對軍公教而言是非常、非常的不公平，第一個我們跟勞工就已經不一樣了，現在在立法院所通過的卻是立法委員的版本，而不是總統府國家年金改革委員會的，所以這個部分既然實施已經這麼多年了就應該要來再檢討，現在這個時刻就是檢討的時刻，所以我們要好好的審查這段時間一些立委的提案。好，以上。"],["施部長能傑：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請翁曉玲委員發言，翁曉玲委員，翁曉玲委員不在場。","下一位請柯志恩委員，柯志恩委員，柯志恩委員不在場。","接下來請張啓楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-18","speakers":["吳宗憲","賴士葆","翁曉玲","張嘉郡","羅智強","黃建賓","林思銘","張智倫","黃健豪","許宇甄","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","王義川","李彥秀","吳沛憶","沈伯洋","林宜瑾","陳俊宇","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","林德福","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","李坤城","林楚茵","張雅琳","黃秀芳","林淑芬","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","陳素月","徐富癸","賴惠員","吳秉叡","許智傑","陳培瑜","郭國文"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-05"],"gazette_id":"1140301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)委員賴士葆等31人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」\n案、(二)委員賴士葆等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)\n委員張智倫等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員張嘉\n郡等23人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員賴士葆等26人\n擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「公\n務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條、第三十八條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員邱鎮\n軍等25 人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、( 八) 國民黨黨團擬具\n「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員林思銘等26人擬具「公務人\n員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員陳超明等19人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員許宇甄等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員張智倫等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三條、第八條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員馬文君等20人擬具「公務人員退\n休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員傅崐萁等21人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員黃建賓等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十八)委員陳玉珍等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十\n八條條文修正草案」案、(二十)委員羅智強等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條\n文修正草案」案；二、併案審查(一)委員李彥秀等18人擬具「公務人員任用法第三十六條之一條\n文修正草案」案、(二)委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「公務人員任用法第二十八條之一條文修正草案」\n案","agenda_id":"1140301_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}