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開始辭職啦!那個 薛妮安薛妮安來來 薛妮安你不要走 再來就你啊對啊對啊對啊再來就你 再來我啊拖下來 拖下來"},{"start":301.899,"end":309.505,"text":"二、審查委員楊曜等19年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等19年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等19年度中央政府總預算案。"},{"start":312.496,"end":332.309,"text":"請尊重張淇的委員我幫蔡議員收尾我幫蔡議員收尾來不是發言的委員請請不要發出聲音我幫他收尾啦議議的題目是什麼我幫你收尾好來來來欸到小蘇秀現在那個選委會主委上台請李主委請李主委請李主委現在選委會的李主委"},{"start":341.488,"end":357.073,"text":"請大家安靜我現在有四分鐘我先幫蔡議員稍微稍微稍微啦你本來要問什麼"},{"start":369.177,"end":375.044,"text":"二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":386.391,"end":414.125,"text":"好好來來大家輕鬆一點辯論一宿好不好我今天台灣民眾黨是來幫國民黨也是幫民進黨的我要兩個大的主題第一個最近有大罷免潮還有什麼精準罷免快開始了我們等一下談一下看能不能幫國民黨不要那麼多人被罷免等一下我也幫蔡英宇幫吳秉瑞你們有好幾位民進黨的立法委員提供一個合法的選罷法的修正我們現在看看今天台灣民眾黨這講得對好不好"},{"start":415.566,"end":443.397,"text":"大評要不要引述 輕鬆一點 輕鬆一點 請坐好不好 請坐請坐好來 我先請教主委最近吶 有傳出來說有大罷免潮 或者所謂的精準罷免齁包括 台北市要罷免李燕秀台北市說要罷免李燕秀阿新北好像AMC也被列進去嘛齁台中還有三位這個 年輕的廖偉祥他們站在中選會主委的立場跟專業 你怎麼看這個大罷免潮"},{"start":445.264,"end":463.389,"text":"在我們選務機關的立場上我們並不特別的去關心會不會發生罷免或者甚至於演變成所謂的大罷免潮因為這是朝野政黨之間的一個競逐或者是一個互動但是在選務機關的立場我們隨時做好各種選務的準備"},{"start":472.612,"end":498.208,"text":"萬一有罷免的案子出來的時候我們必須要能夠依法能夠順利的來完成整個這個選務的程序接下來我們來幫這個蔡英宇還有吳秉瑞很多民進黨立委爭取一個權益啦知不知道近情啊在罷免案的時候出現很多啊無效的這個連署甚至出現大量死亡的這個已經往生者喔"},{"start":499.383,"end":519.118,"text":"人已經過世了,還出現在連署名單上面。蔡議員跟吳明璽的提案是這樣,他說最近罷免案出現超過一千份以上的罷免。他說這是有心人士假冒個人資料。"},{"start":521.572,"end":532.798,"text":"這個對整個連署罷免案是非常不公平而且要處理的你怎麼看這樣的一個提案外界所提出來的這個現象所報導的相關的數據這個都是經過我們對於連署的這個名冊查對的結果"},{"start":540.757,"end":544.579,"text":"審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":563.911,"end":581.901,"text":"被假冒在罷免案裡面被連署的不是只有往生者上千人更多的黑素是可能你跟我可能都被冒名了所以他們提了一個案子他們說以後在罷免案的時候要把你身份證上面的發照日期把它寫上去這是很好一個提案嘛 對不對"},{"start":582.661,"end":597.675,"text":"對於這個所謂的假冒,死人連署,或者是代簽等等這種不應該發生的現象,在我們的選務機制裡面是可以可以排除的。如果像蔡議員他們提的,他剛剛在那邊等這麼久,我幫他爭取權力嘛。"},{"start":603.166,"end":606.55,"text":"二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．"},{"start":622.125,"end":632.17,"text":"二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文"},{"start":637.592,"end":662.069,"text":"至少張祺凱支持蔡英明這個提案不要撤回去不要撤回去這個案子是好的另外台灣民政黨會提一個案子我們在為了避免有人假冒所以我們附上身份證影印本我們會嚴格的來進行查對那至於要附身份證的影印本這個有很多的缺點跟顧慮我想這一點我也都相當的清楚"},{"start":663.99,"end":686.985,"text":"主席請站起來希望透過今天的質詢大罷免潮特別是那種政治性的報復不要出現第二個我們既然要修選罷法怎麼樣避免去連署罷免的人被假冒包括已經往生者連民進黨的立委都這樣講了我們要徹底去解決就加上蔡議員他們當初提了把身份證的流水號加進去就用民眾黨的身份證原本謝謝"},{"start":692.431,"end":692.491,"text":"審查委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":896,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（14時14分）謝謝，我終於可以講話了，易餘、易餘！"],["洪委員孟楷：幹部先回去嘛，各自帶走……"],["張委員嘉郡：你先……","（現場一片混亂）"],["主席：請大家保持安靜，我們尊重張啓楷委員質詢的秩序，不要講話，好嗎？"],["張委員啓楷：大家回座，好不好？"],["王委員美惠：來啦，我們要繼續講，來啦，大家都下來坐！","（現場一片混亂）"],["主席：可不可以請大家安靜，安靜的聽質詢，好不好？你們不要那麼吵，好不好？麻煩蔡易餘書記長！"],["徐委員巧芯：我們同時……"],["李委員坤城：主席要先請你們下去呀！"],["徐委員巧芯：我們同時、我們同時，好不好？"],["李委員坤城：主席要先請大家下去呀！"],["徐委員巧芯：我們同時，大家互相，我們同時！"],["張委員嘉郡：我們的位子都被你們坐滿了。"],["王委員美惠：這些位子是他們的……"],["徐委員巧芯：你們坐到我們的位子，這樣子我們沒辦法坐，因為一人一邊，我們調整一下位子，左邊那邊國民黨的、右邊那邊民進黨的，我們坐在那裡，讓我們能夠下去坐，好不好？"],["張委員嘉郡：你去講啊！"],["李委員坤城：主席要講啊、主席要講啊！"],["徐委員巧芯：你們這邊的、我們那邊的，這本來就是這樣，自己協調嘛！"],["李委員坤城：主席講了，我們就會清空。","（現場一片混亂）"],["主席：請大家不要影響會議的秩序，好不好？不要七嘴八舌，好不好？"],["李委員坤城：你講……"],["林委員楚茵：我12點半就來這裡坐著等你開會……我12點半就在這裡，為什麼要起來讓位？國民黨比較大，是不是？來開會還要搶位子……"],["吳委員思瑤：我們讓座了，請大家坐回去呀。"],["張委員嘉郡：你讓張啓楷講、你讓張啓楷講。"],["李委員坤城：你跟大家講一下。","（現場一片混亂）"],["主席：請大家注意會議的秩序，好不好？"],["郭委員國文：這件事情先從後面開始處理啦！"],["張委員嘉郡：你讓張啓楷開始……"],["主席：不影響、不影響！不要七嘴八舌，好不好？"],["蔡委員易餘：不能這樣，會議沒有這樣在開的。"],["李委員坤城：坐好，位子就會出來了。","（現場一片混亂）"],["主席：請大家坐好，包括李坤城委員、蔡易餘委員、郭國文委員，請坐好，好不好？請坐好！"],["李委員坤城：大家一起下來、大家一起下來啦！"],["張委員啓楷：可以讓我講了嗎？"],["李委員坤城：大家一起下來呀，大家一起下來、大家一起下來啦！下來就會有位子坐了啦。"],["蔡委員易餘：我忘了怎麼收尾嘛！"],["李委員坤城：主席，講一下，大家都下來，有位子坐……","（現場一片混亂）"],["主席：所以我請張啓楷委員發言。"],["李委員坤城：欸，你們……"],["王委員美惠：欸，快下來！"],["李委員坤城：大家快下來、大家都坐好，不然怎麼開會？"],["王委員美惠：你說啦、你說啦！"],["張委員啓楷：我開始講……"],["李委員坤城：一起下來，好不好？召委，你就叫大家回位子坐好、大家回位子坐好。","（現場一片混亂）"],["主席：你們先回位子坐好，你們回位子坐好！"],["張委員啓楷：報告主席、報告主席、報告主席！讓我開始質詢，好不好？"],["主席：請尊重張啓楷委員。"],["張委員啓楷：開始計時啦！欣瑩！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：天財不要走，再來就你、然後再來就我質詢呀。"],["張委員嘉郡：都下來了。"],["張委員啓楷：都下來了。"],["李委員坤城：好了啦……","（現場一片混亂）"],["主席：好……"],["徐委員巧芯：都下來了，都沒有人站在臺上了！"],["張委員啓楷：好了喔，謝謝，來……"],["蔡委員易餘：我忘記我要怎麼收尾了……"],["主席：請尊重張啓楷委員，請大家……"],["張委員啓楷：我幫蔡易餘收尾，來！"],["主席：不是發言的委員請不要發出聲音。"],["張委員啓楷：我幫他收尾啦！易餘的題目是什麼？我幫你收尾。","謝謝主席，請中選會主委上臺。"],["蔡委員易餘：你說的應該不是我要的尾！"],["主席：請李主委。"],["張委員嘉郡：擋住他了，你們擋住張啓楷了。"],["張委員啓楷：請中選會李主委。"],["徐委員巧芯：下來了，都下來了！"],["張委員嘉郡：換張啓楷質詢。"],["蔡委員易餘：要保持有辦法跟主委對抗啊……","（現場一片混亂）"],["張委員啓楷：那是我嘉中的學長，學長好！主委好。"],["主席：請大家安靜。"],["張委員啓楷：我現在有4分鐘，我先幫蔡易餘蔡委員收尾，你本來要問什麼？"],["蔡委員易餘：不是，你的尾不是我的尾啦！我的尾經過這兩個小時我也忘記了！"],["張委員啓楷：OK，好，那我幫他收個尾，剛剛蔡易餘最後說的是謝謝主委，我們先收個尾，謝謝主委。","我們現在重新開始了，我現在剩……"],["王委員美惠：哪有這樣啦！他現在是幾分鐘？","（現場一片混亂）"],["張委員啓楷：來，大家輕鬆一點，不要那麼嚴肅，好不好？我今天台灣民眾黨是來幫國民黨、也是幫民進黨的，我有兩個大主題，第一個，最近有大罷免潮，還有什麼精準罷免快開始了，我們等一下談一下，看能不能幫國民黨不要有那麼多人被罷免；等一下我也幫蔡易餘、幫吳秉叡，你們有好幾位民進黨的立法委員提供一個很好的選罷法修正，我們看看今天台灣民眾黨做公道伯，好不好？大家不要那麼嚴肅，輕鬆一點、輕鬆一點！請坐，好不好？請坐、請坐！","我先請教主委，最近傳出來有大罷免潮或者所謂的精準罷免，包括臺北市要罷免李彥秀、新北好像葉元之也被列進去、臺中還有三位年輕的，就是廖偉翔他們，站在中選會主委的立場跟專業，你怎麼看這個大罷免潮？"],["李主任委員進勇：在我們選務機關的立場上，我們並不特別去關心會不會發生罷免，或者甚至演變成所謂的大罷免潮，因為這是朝野政黨之間的一個競逐或者是一個互動……"],["張委員啓楷：主委，你們會不會忙不過來？"],["李主任委員進勇：但是在選務機關的立場，我們隨時做好各種選務的準備，萬一有罷免的案子出來的時候，我們必須要能夠依法順利來完成整個選務程序。"],["張委員啓楷：接下來我們來幫蔡易餘、吳秉叡等很多民進黨立委爭取一個權益，主委，你知道嗎？之前在罷免案的時候出現很多無效的連署，甚至出現大量死亡的……已經往生、人已經過世了還出現在連署名單上面！蔡易餘跟吳秉叡的提案表示，最近罷免案出現超過1,000份以上的死亡連署，他說這是有心人士假冒個人資料，這個對整體連署罷免案非常不公平而且要處理，你怎麼看這樣的一個提案？"],["李主任委員進勇：外界所提出來的現象、所報導的相關數據都是經過我們對於連署名冊的查對結果……"],["張委員啓楷：主委，我先提醒你，當初他們提這個案子，是吳秉叡跟蔡易餘說，光是一次的連署裡面出現了上千份往生者被人家假冒，這是多嚴重的一個事情……"],["李主任委員進勇：對，這是嚴重……"],["張委員啓楷：他們的提案還特別講，這會違反個人資料保護，侵犯被假冒者，不是只有往生者，他說裡面的黑數還有很多，在罷免案裡面被假冒連署的不是只有往生者上千人，更多的黑數是可能你跟我都被冒名了，所以他們提了一個案子，他們說以後在罷免案的時候，要把身分證上面的發照日期寫上去，這是很好的一個提案嘛，對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：對於所謂的假冒死人連署或者是代簽等等這種不應該發生的現象，在我們的選務機制裡面是可以排除的……"],["張委員啓楷：比較辛苦嘛！主委，如果像蔡易餘他們提的，他剛剛在那邊等這麼久，我幫他爭取權利嘛！如果這個流水號……身分證的發照日期上去，你在清查的時候會比較方便嘛！而且可以避免……"],["李主任委員進勇：所以既然在我們的機制上是可以被剔除、可以被發現的，如果……"],["張委員啓楷：主委，如果照蔡易餘他們當初的這個提案是不是更好？可以保障個人的個資，而且有助於剔除不管是往生者還是現在的被人家假冒……"],["李主任委員進勇：要解決這個問題，不會只剩下唯一的……"],["張委員啓楷：有很多方法，我們台灣民眾黨有提一個方法……"],["李主任委員進勇：要附身分證的影本，不會只剩下這麼一個方法。"],["張委員啓楷：主委，第一個，我現在鄭重宣布，在選罷法的修正案裡面……"],["徐委員巧芯：主席，時間到了。"],["張委員啓楷：至少張啓楷支持蔡易餘這個提案，不要撤回去、不要撤回去，這個案子是好的。另外，台灣民眾黨會提一個案子，我們為了避免有人假冒，所以我們建議附上身分證影印本，這個也是很好的方案。"],["李主任委員進勇：我們會嚴格地來進行查對，至於要附身分證的影本，這個有很多的缺點跟顧慮，我想這一點委員也都相當地清楚。"],["主席：請你們以書面報告……"],["張委員啓楷：主席已經站起來了，主委，非常謝謝，希望透過我今天的質詢讓大罷免潮─特別是那種政治性的報復不要出現。第二個，我們既然要修選罷法，怎麼樣避免連署罷免的人被假冒，包括已經往生者，連民進黨的立委都這樣講了，我們要澈底去解決……"],["李主任委員進勇：現有機制，包括……"],["張委員啓楷：要嘛就加上蔡易餘他們當初提的，把身分證的流水號加進去……"],["主席：請以書面……"],["張委員啓楷：要嘛就採用台灣民眾黨所建議的附上身分證影印本，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張委員。","接下來請鄭天財委員。請保持會議的秩序，不是輪到發言的委員請尊重質詢的委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":126,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-14","speakers":["徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","黃捷","王美惠","張宏陸","高金素梅","李坤城","蔡易餘","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","黃建賓","張智倫","吳琪銘","牛煦庭","吳沛憶","陳菁徽","張嘉郡","翁曉玲","張啓楷","洪孟楷","徐巧芯","林楚茵","吳思瑤","郭國文","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林俊憲","張雅琳","林思銘","黃秀芳","許智傑","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","王義川","莊瑞雄","廖先翔","林宜瑾","林淑芬","賴惠員","傅崐萁","陳素月","吳秉叡","王正旭","徐富癸","邱志偉","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","郭昱晴","林月琴","邱議瑩","李昆澤","葉元之","陳瑩","劉建國","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-05"],"gazette_id":"1140201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於中央選舉委員會及所屬單位預算；二、審查「公職人員\n選舉罷免法」修正草案，計六案：(一)審查委員楊曜等17人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七\n條及第六十九條條文修正草案」案、(二)審查委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第六\n十九條條文修正草案」案、(三)審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第五十三條條\n文修正草案」案、(四)審查委員陳冠廷等25人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第五十二條條文修正草\n案」案、(五)審查委員許宇甄等39人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第七十五條及第九十條條文修正\n草案」案、(六)審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第三十二條及第四十三條條文修\n正草案」案","agenda_id":"1140201_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}