{"error":false,"id":["157948"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":157948,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157948","日期":"2024-12-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-36-18","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":18,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-12-05T17:34:58+08:00","結束時間":"2024-12-05T17:39:41+08:00","影片長度":"00:04:43","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/66a8e59aed318d21963a29ddea90946ed143e698449c70dc5012e4539fd53d171d84deb0c5e6415a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱志偉","委員發言時間":"17:34:58 - 17:39:41","會議時間":"2024-12-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員賴士葆等31人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員賴士葆等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員張智倫等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員張嘉郡等23人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員賴士葆等26人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條、第三十八條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員邱鎮軍等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）國民黨黨團擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員林思銘等26人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員陳超明等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員許宇甄等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員張智倫等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三條、第八條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十四）委員馬文君等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員傅崐萁等21人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十七）委員黃建賓等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十八）委員陳玉珍等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十九）委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案。\n（二十）委員羅智強等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n二、併案審查\n（一）委員李彥秀等18人擬具「公務人員任用法第三十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「公務人員任用法第二十八條之一條文修正草案」案。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.25284375,"end":15.488468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.610968750000001,"end":15.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.79221875,"end":16.028468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.33221875,"end":16.973468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.973468750000002,"end":17.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.10846875,"end":17.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.80846875,"end":21.242843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.01096875,"end":20.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.820968750000002,"end":20.972843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.04034375,"end":21.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.74471875,"end":25.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.153468750000002,"end":26.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.96346875,"end":31.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.890968750000003,"end":32.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32.869718750000004,"end":35.299718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.244718750000004,"end":40.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.90221875,"end":41.914718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.657218750000006,"end":43.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.05784375,"end":44.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.15471875,"end":46.268468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.791593750000004,"end":48.057218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.12034375,"end":50.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.60534375,"end":51.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.92159375,"end":52.140968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.140968750000006,"end":52.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.845343750000005,"end":56.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.13596875,"end":60.88221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.236593750000004,"end":61.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.65409375,"end":63.345968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.68346875,"end":65.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.61534375000001,"end":72.00284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.30221875000001,"end":74.14596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.65221875,"end":76.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.67284375,"end":79.64721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.06909375000001,"end":81.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.92096875,"end":87.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.47721875,"end":92.05034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.82659375,"end":94.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.04971875000001,"end":102.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.75721875,"end":111.84471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.43096875,"end":115.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.89471875000001,"end":119.91096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.82221875,"end":125.39534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.52596875,"end":127.30221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":127.62284375,"end":131.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.97659375,"end":138.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.67596875,"end":140.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.75159375,"end":142.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.99596875,"end":145.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.91096875,"end":147.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.12159375000002,"end":151.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.26034375,"end":153.69471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.12909375,"end":158.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.75284375,"end":161.81159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.63846875000002,"end":163.39784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.41034375,"end":164.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.81096875,"end":166.45221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.86971875,"end":170.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.44721875000002,"end":173.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.90659375,"end":177.31971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":177.80909375000002,"end":179.02409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":181.08284375000002,"end":181.96034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":182.31471875000003,"end":188.25471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.54159375,"end":189.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.31346875,"end":190.36409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.36409375000002,"end":196.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.81034375000002,"end":204.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":200.03346875000003,"end":200.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":204.11721875,"end":204.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":204.84284375000001,"end":205.11284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.61909375000002,"end":211.13721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.69409375,"end":212.70659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.70221875000001,"end":214.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.19159375,"end":214.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.10284375,"end":231.40409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":229.34534375,"end":229.73346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.12971875000002,"end":232.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.33221875,"end":232.51784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.51784375000003,"end":235.60596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":236.02784375000002,"end":241.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":242.67659375000002,"end":243.92534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.46096875,"end":251.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":252.27846875000003,"end":255.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.53096875,"end":259.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":259.85534375000003,"end":261.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.99409375,"end":263.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.12471875,"end":268.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.37784375,"end":267.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.93409375000005,"end":272.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.59596875,"end":273.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.74346875000003,"end":275.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.94971875000005,"end":281.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.74221875,"end":282.07971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.31596875,"end":283.26096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":22.963,"end":35.129,"text":"國家的利益永遠是高於政黨的利益,對不對?任何的制度,國家的制度一定要可藏可有而且一定要兼顧世代公平"},{"start":36.274,"end":61.358,"text":"立法者你每天在思考是怎麼樣讓國家更進步讓人民更幸福建立的法律制度相關的作為都是要扶國立民而不是禍國殃民兩位同意嗎?當然我非常同意所以剛剛邱議員說啊馬前總統他說這個年改非做不可對不對這個吳副總統"},{"start":67.679,"end":94.012,"text":"也說如果這個是不改這變成這個這個未爆彈一旦引爆會引起很大的一個問題社會問題國家的危機公務人員相關的權益對不對所以這兩位啊都曾經當過國家元首啊我相信他當過國家元首的時候他應該是思考到國家的利益對不對所以才會說出這種話嘛"},{"start":96.087,"end":101.809,"text":"他同時也是他們兩位同時也擔任過國民黨的黨主席所以他們當時說這句話應當是為了國家的利益或者制度的永續存在嘛我想為什麼年改在他們那邊沒辦法執行這個蔡英文總統執行這是一個福國利民讓制度永續生存也兼顧世代公平對不對"},{"start":126.547,"end":141.412,"text":"三）委員張智倫等16人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案 案（二）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案 案．委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案 案．委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條條文修正草案 案．委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六"},{"start":155.165,"end":163.229,"text":"撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員"},{"start":181.089,"end":186.152,"text":"撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案．一）委員"},{"start":211.91,"end":230.914,"text":"事實上他破產不只是影響到縣子公務員還有退休的甚至還影響到未來很多公務人員他會有疑慮不敢來考公務員他影響的層面還是非常廣會找不到公務人員"},{"start":233.149,"end":243.135,"text":"他反正說要我退休我沒退休已經我要做公務人員有沒有人願意為國家社會人民來服務來努力這是很嚴重的問題你看看從今年的1186億會增加到明年的這個1316億政府大11%這種趨勢是每年每年增加"},{"start":259.892,"end":260.652,"text":"三）委員張智倫等16人擬具"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1871,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（17時35分）謝謝主席，請施部長跟蘇人事長。"],["主席：請部長、人事長。"],["施部長能傑：委員好。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：委員好。"],["邱委員志偉：國家的利益永遠是高於政黨的利益，對不對？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：是。"],["邱委員志偉：任何國家的制度一定要可長可久，而且一定要兼顧世代公平，立法者每天在思考的是怎麼樣讓國家更進步，讓人民更幸福，建立的法律、制度及相關的作為都是要福國利民，而不是禍國殃民。兩位同意嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：非常同意。"],["施部長能傑：對。"],["邱委員志偉：剛剛邱議瑩委員說，馬前總統說年改非做不可，對不對？吳前副總統也說，如果這個不改會變成未爆彈，一旦引爆會引起很大的問題，社會的問題、國家的危機、公務人員相關的權益，對不對？這兩位都曾經當過國家元首，我相信他們在當國家元首的時候，他們應該是思考到國家的利益，所以才會說出這種話。他們兩位同時也擔任過國民黨的黨主席，所以他們當時說這句話，應當是為了國家的利益或者制度的永續存在，我不曉得的是，為什麼年改在他們任內沒辦法執行，而蔡英文總統執行了，這是一個福國利民，讓制度永續生存，也兼顧世代公平，沒有錯嘛，既是對的事情，為什麼有人或是有特定的政黨，而且是曾經說年改不做是未爆彈，曾經說年改非做不可，且當過黨主席的人，他們政黨竟然要走回頭路，這情何以堪！我想是不是他們把政黨的利益高於國家的利益，把一個制度變成沒有辦法可長可久，也破壞了世代的公平，兩位同意嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：同意。"],["邱委員志偉：那怎麼辦呢？如果假設按照國民黨的版本通過，會出現哪些恐怖的狀況？我光是用想的就覺得真的不寒而慄？會對國家造成非常嚴重傷害的影響會有哪些狀況？請教施部長。"],["施部長能傑：我想最重要的就是年金提早用罄，年金用罄就破產……"],["邱委員志偉：就破產吧，就沒有了嘛！"],["施部長能傑：對現職的公務人員來講，很多人都還在這個基金裡面，所以會產生很大的一個衝擊。"],["邱委員志偉：未來會有很多或是現在的公務人員都無法領到年金，不是這樣嗎？因為破產了嘛，人事長。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：事實上，破產不只是影響到現職公務員，還有退休的，甚至還影響到未來很多公務人員會有疑慮，不敢來考公務員，所以影響的層面還是非常廣、非常廣。"],["邱委員志偉：就是會找不到公務人員，大家會煩惱退休沒退休金，那做公務人員要幹嘛，所以會沒有人願意為國家社會、為人民來服務、來努力，這是很嚴重的問題。你看看從今年的1,186億會增加到明年的1,316億，增幅到11%，這種趨勢是每年增加的，是不是這樣？"],["施部長能傑：對。"],["邱委員志偉：那改回去怎麼辦？部長，你會煩惱嗎？"],["施部長能傑：就是因為……"],["邱委員志偉：我會煩惱到睡不著！因為本席一向都很尊重時間，不要影響到後面委員的質詢權利，相關的問題我再用書面跟兩位請教，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝邱委員。","下一位請陳瑩委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-18","speakers":["吳宗憲","賴士葆","翁曉玲","張嘉郡","羅智強","黃建賓","林思銘","張智倫","黃健豪","許宇甄","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","王義川","李彥秀","吳沛憶","沈伯洋","林宜瑾","陳俊宇","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","林德福","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","李坤城","林楚茵","張雅琳","黃秀芳","林淑芬","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","陳素月","徐富癸","賴惠員","吳秉叡","許智傑","陳培瑜","郭國文"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-05"],"gazette_id":"1140301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)委員賴士葆等31人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」\n案、(二)委員賴士葆等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)\n委員張智倫等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員張嘉\n郡等23人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員賴士葆等26人\n擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「公\n務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條、第三十八條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員邱鎮\n軍等25 人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、( 八) 國民黨黨團擬具\n「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員林思銘等26人擬具「公務人\n員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員陳超明等19人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員許宇甄等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員張智倫等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三條、第八條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員馬文君等20人擬具「公務人員退\n休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員傅崐萁等21人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員黃建賓等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十八)委員陳玉珍等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十\n八條條文修正草案」案、(二十)委員羅智強等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條\n文修正草案」案；二、併案審查(一)委員李彥秀等18人擬具「公務人員任用法第三十六條之一條\n文修正草案」案、(二)委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「公務人員任用法第二十八條之一條文修正草案」\n案","agenda_id":"1140301_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}