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17:14:46","會議時間":"2024-12-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於中央選舉委員會及所屬單位預算。二、審查「公職人員選舉罷免法」修正草案，計六案：(一)審查委員楊曜等17人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第五十三條條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員陳冠廷等25人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第五十二條條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員許宇甄等39人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第七十五條及第九十條條文修正草案」案。(六)審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第三十二條及第四十三條條文修正草案」案。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.0603437500000001,"end":1.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.0603437500000001,"end":6.021593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.6172187500000001,"end":1.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.66784375,"end":5.0259687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.8990937500000005,"end":8.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.83971875,"end":9.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.31221875,"end":11.084093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.62409375,"end":12.029093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.78846875,"end":13.024718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.30721875,"end":15.589718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.31534375,"end":19.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.70721875,"end":22.086593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.39034375,"end":23.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.74471875,"end":23.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.17471875,"end":27.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.48659375,"end":31.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.07659375,"end":37.814093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.98284375,"end":40.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.32409375,"end":42.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.758468750000006,"end":43.922843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.12096875,"end":46.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.94346875,"end":47.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.057218750000004,"end":50.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.719093750000006,"end":54.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.735343750000006,"end":56.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.540968750000005,"end":64.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.25284375000001,"end":66.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.94471875,"end":76.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.33284375000001,"end":66.34971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.40284375,"end":93.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.97221875000001,"end":79.84971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.21659375,"end":82.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.78846875,"end":101.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.92221875000001,"end":102.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.12034375,"end":104.03159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.19596875,"end":107.03534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.44034375000001,"end":109.11096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.60034375000001,"end":110.79846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.03471875000001,"end":111.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.09784375000001,"end":113.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.14846875,"end":112.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.05971875,"end":116.89034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.45596875000001,"end":121.98659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.91471875,"end":139.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.60846875000001,"end":143.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.54846875,"end":160.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.30971875,"end":162.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.61284375000002,"end":175.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.27784375000002,"end":177.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.85971875,"end":182.48346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.93034375000002,"end":201.34971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.13659375,"end":188.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.73471875,"end":195.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.72096875000003,"end":206.86784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.13409375,"end":206.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.57659375,"end":209.06159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.06159375000001,"end":209.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.97284375,"end":210.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.00659375,"end":211.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.94721875000002,"end":211.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.96409375000002,"end":224.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.03034375000001,"end":220.87409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.18596875,"end":226.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.40909375,"end":235.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.15034375000002,"end":248.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.53221875000003,"end":250.67534375000002},{"speaker":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第一階段成案 啊 之後 他就放了"},{"start":105.273,"end":108.116,"text":"審查委員楊曜等12年度中央政府總預算案關於中央政委委員會及所屬單位預算案。"},{"start":123.53,"end":140.1,"text":"這也是我們擔心的啦,因為現在政府對這個詐騙集團的這個宣導是非常廣泛的一般老百姓都深入腦海裡面,所以說對個人資料的這個保護呢,大家都很在意所以喔,我要講,所以這到時候喔,這白蘭的喔,他們就會衝一招"},{"start":144.943,"end":148.787,"text":"二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":164.639,"end":179.531,"text":"我現在回答的這個狀況是就一般的法制一般的法制面至於是不是特定的特定的這個人選這個我是沒有辦法評論的我再問你一個問題現在2026年關於中選舉總顧客人可以來選管長"},{"start":188.146,"end":202.057,"text":"三、審計候選人資格的審查只要他符合我們選罷法的要件的話包括他必須要是10年以上10年以上中國人?中國人?可以算嗎?他沒有中國國籍喔他沒有放棄喔"},{"start":212.308,"end":212.609,"text":"二、審查委員"},{"start":226.616,"end":231.761,"text":"二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．"},{"start":242.33,"end":248.113,"text":"有牽涉到這個國籍法的部分這不在我們的管轄範圍之內所以我在說的是說好選人的條件好選人的條件我們審查只要他如果是中華民國的國民你說中國人中國人在台灣已經有經過十年了涉及經過十年了不是啦他就沒放棄中國籍啦主委你沒放棄啦"},{"start":266.963,"end":269.446,"text":"二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":284.985,"end":288.287,"text":"二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":309.198,"end":311.5,"text":"二、審查委員楊曜等二十九條條文修正草案案。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1490,"blocks":[["王委員義川：（17時9分）主席，今天討論選罷法關於罷免的部分，請李主委上台。"],["主席：請李主委。"],["王委員義川：請教一下，如果今天要罷免一個人，譬如我今天要擺攤來罷免葉元之，就在路邊將它擺下去，並將身分證影本收一收，連署1萬份之後交給你們，後面我就不連署了，因為1萬份我就賺到了，你們要怎麼處理？"],["李主任委員進勇：擺攤連署收身分證，中選會管不到、管不到。"],["王委員義川：如果我在這裡擺一攤要罷免葉元之，隔壁也擺一攤要罷免葉元之，我們都以罷免的名義把人家的身分證收過來，你們都不管？"],["李主任委員進勇：中選會管不到。"],["王委員義川：中選會管不到？"],["李主任委員進勇：是無法可管。"],["王委員義川：那麼誰可以管？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們也是擔心這種情形是不是會成為詐騙集團作為蒐集個人資料的一種方式，這點是必須要考慮的。"],["王委員義川：如果葉元之要他的樁腳先擺一攤來罷免他自己，第一階段成案，在身分證收一收之後就放著，這樣第二階段就不夠了，對嗎？這樣他就不能被罷免了耶！"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["王委員義川：這樣的情況也會發生？"],["李主任委員進勇：理論上是可能啦！"],["王委員義川：這樣也是會發生啦！"],["李主任委員進勇：理論上是可能啦！"],["王委員義川：所以收身分證這件事可能會與詐騙集團牽扯在一起喔！"],["李主任委員進勇：這也是我們擔心的啦！因為現在政府對於詐騙集團的宣導是非常廣泛的，一般老百姓都深入腦海裡面，所以大家對於個人資料的保護都很在意。"],["王委員義川：我告訴你，到時候白藍可能會使出一招，要大家不要交出身分證，否則可能會被詐騙集團收走，如果有誰想要罷免葉元之，就會告訴那個人不要去罷免，因為他的身分證會被收走，一旦身分證被收走就可能會被詐騙集團拿去使用，所以不能交出去，這樣等於整群都不能罷免了。"],["李主任委員進勇：我現在回答的狀況是就一般的法制面，至於是不是特定的人選，我是沒有辦法評論。"],["王委員義川：這樣我再問你一個問題，關於2026年的縣市長選舉，中國人可以參選縣長嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：選舉的候選人……"],["王委員義川：候選人。"],["李主任委員進勇：候選人資格的審查，只要符合我們選罷法的要件……"],["王委員義川：我是說中國人、中國人。"],["李主任委員進勇：包括必須要10年以上有居住……"],["王委員義川：10年以上的中國人、中國人。"],["李主任委員進勇：可以參選。"],["王委員義川：可以參選？"],["李主任委員進勇：可以參選。"],["王委員義川：但是他也有中國國籍喔！他也有中國國籍喔！他並未放棄喔！他們那個叫做放棄戶籍，放棄國籍……"],["李主任委員進勇：他必須在臺灣10年以上，而且……"],["王委員義川：這些都有。"],["李主任委員進勇：他必須要是國民。"],["王委員義川：他是國民，但是他沒有放棄中國國籍、他沒有辦理任何的程序、沒有放棄中國國籍，還說什麼沒有戶籍而已，也沒有放棄中國國籍，這種狀況可以參選嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：我是針對選罷法的規定而言，但是這個可能還牽涉到兩岸人民關係條例、牽涉到國籍法的部分，並不在我們的管轄範圍之內。我剛才講的是我們審查候選人的條件，只要是中華民國的國民，雖然你說是中國人，但既然他已經在臺灣設籍10年了……"],["王委員義川：就是他沒有放棄中國國籍，主委！他沒有放棄、沒有向中國的習近平說要放棄中國的國籍啦！"],["李主任委員進勇：他還是有……"],["王委員義川：這樣還能參選我們的縣長嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：他有候選人的資格，但是就任時就會有一些限制了。"],["王委員義川：就任時有限制，所以參選是多選的就對了，這個要講清楚喔！"],["李主任委員進勇：是，沒有錯，這個非常清楚。"],["王委員義川：如果沒看到他放棄中國國籍，雖然有國內的戶籍也沒效，沒有放棄中國國國籍的證明，你們不能讓他就任喔！因為這個可能會在2026年發生喔！2026年可能會有具中華民國國籍而且沒放棄中國國籍的中國人參選，在就任時要注意喔！"],["李主任委員進勇：陸委會及內政部都有很清楚的說明。"],["王委員義川：好，你們中選會與內政部及陸委會到時候要嚴格把關喔！"],["李主任委員進勇：沒問題。"],["王委員義川：因為2026年可能會有中國人參選，如果選上了就是多選的喔！"],["李主任委員進勇：上下游都可以一起配合。"],["王委員義川：都可以管制？好，這樣不錯！「gan」！"],["王委員美惠：讚啦！"],["牛委員煦庭：發音標準一點啦！"],["王委員義川：讚啦！"],["王委員美惠：不是……不要誤會喔！他說讚啦！"],["主席：報告委員會，今天延長會議時間至詢答結束。","接下來請陳素月委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":126,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-14","speakers":["徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","黃捷","王美惠","張宏陸","高金素梅","李坤城","蔡易餘","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","黃建賓","張智倫","吳琪銘","牛煦庭","吳沛憶","陳菁徽","張嘉郡","翁曉玲","張啓楷","洪孟楷","徐巧芯","林楚茵","吳思瑤","郭國文","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林俊憲","張雅琳","林思銘","黃秀芳","許智傑","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","王義川","莊瑞雄","廖先翔","林宜瑾","林淑芬","賴惠員","傅崐萁","陳素月","吳秉叡","王正旭","徐富癸","邱志偉","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","郭昱晴","林月琴","邱議瑩","李昆澤","葉元之","陳瑩","劉建國","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-05"],"gazette_id":"1140201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於中央選舉委員會及所屬單位預算；二、審查「公職人員\n選舉罷免法」修正草案，計六案：(一)審查委員楊曜等17人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七\n條及第六十九條條文修正草案」案、(二)審查委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第六\n十九條條文修正草案」案、(三)審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第五十三條條\n文修正草案」案、(四)審查委員陳冠廷等25人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第五十二條條文修正草\n案」案、(五)審查委員許宇甄等39人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第七十五條及第九十條條文修正\n草案」案、(六)審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第三十二條及第四十三條條文修\n正草案」案","agenda_id":"1140201_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}