{"error":false,"id":["157962"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":157962,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157962","日期":"2024-12-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-15-14","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第14次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":14,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第14次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-12-05T17:45:15+08:00","結束時間":"2024-12-05T17:49:58+08:00","影片長度":"00:04:43","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/66a8e59aed318d21b647b30493b7115131f80df82035e9d5f0c17418893685eea64f041abfa03d905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"17:45:15 - 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?是中選會還是NCC?是中選會。中選會嘛,對不對?活動期間。非活動期間嘛,對不對?就是過了選舉的截止宣傳的時候,那社群媒體,我們過去有一些案例,在投票的當天還有人發社群媒體來幫特定候選人宣傳,是不是也是中選會來負責開罰?是的。"},{"start":121.334,"end":142.881,"text":"好 那我就請問了如果說那像現在這個法規過去了之後我在社群媒體當中我只要提到罷免我只要在電視台提到罷免就一律都要開法是這個意思嗎在未滿一年的情況底下是不是罷免這兩個字變成了不能說的話台灣是不是變成是一個言論自由"},{"start":150.564,"end":158.748,"text":"前置的國家。這幾天國民黨一直在考試民進黨說要戒嚴啦。我心想說現在國民黨是不是要用透過選罷法來實施另外一種戒嚴。就是讓罷免這兩個字連講都不能講。"},{"start":169.031,"end":181.779,"text":"所以這個是另外一個層次的問題在一年以前對於任何人做罷免的倡議倡議這兩個字就是我現在講出來那我的意思是說今天如果有人寫臉書今天現在在後面還有四台攝影機"},{"start":189.843,"end":199.568,"text":"剛甚至於超過十台只要有哪一台講到罷免有某某某有罷免的意思是不是這些媒體通通被二司機抓去罰然後這些寫臉書的寫粹的寫賴的通通都要抓去裁罰"},{"start":208.231,"end":223.916,"text":"是這樣嗎?那這個是不是台灣要回到戒嚴的白色恐怖?所以我要說國民黨現在是不是透過修正選罷法要實施白色恐怖智慧的戒嚴讓罷免這兩個字是連講都不能講如果你告訴我你認為是不是這樣?主委"},{"start":228.052,"end":232.814,"text":"如果不是的話,那請問是要怎麼罰、怎麼抓或是怎麼樣來定義、提議或倡議,是怎麼界定?無從規範,中選會也無從去查處。"},{"start":243.451,"end":245.834,"text":"二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案："},{"start":266.415,"end":268.556,"text":"審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1680,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（17時45分）謝謝主席。有請李主委。"],["主席：請李主委。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員好。"],["林委員楚茵：主委好。這個案子今天討論了一整天，雖然休息的時間非常長，但是發言時間只有4分鐘，所以本席要說快一點。本席要回應一下剛剛吳沛憶委員提到的問題，現在國民黨的版本其實就是司馬昭之心路人皆知，他們怕進入所謂的大罷免時代。現在前面有幾台媒體，本席也是媒體出來的，主委，你應該知道，現行法規是投票前一天晚上10點就禁止在媒體上宣傳，一般民眾在社群媒體是過了12點就不能宣傳，也就是跨過隔天，對嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["林委員楚茵：這是依照哪一條法律？本席告訴你好了，剛剛吳沛憶也有提到，就是選罷法第五十六條，現在國民黨的提議和提案是一年前就不可以說，而我們都知道，如果有人違反選罷法，在投票前一天晚上10點以後還幫特定候選人宣傳，是由誰負責開罰？是中選會吧？還是NCC？"],["李主任委員進勇：是中選會。"],["林委員楚茵：中選會嘛！對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：活動期間。"],["林委員楚茵：因為那是非活動期間嘛！對不對？就是截止宣傳的時候。過去也有一些案例，就是投票當天還有人在社群媒體幫特定候選人宣傳，是不是也由中選會負責開罰？"],["李主任委員進勇：是的。"],["林委員楚茵：好。那本席就要請問了，如果現在這個法規通過，在社群媒體當中只要提到罷免，或者只要在電視台提到罷免，就一律要開罰，是這個意思嗎？在未滿一年的情況之下，罷免這兩個字是不是變成不能說？臺灣是不是變成一個言論自由受到箝制的國家？這幾天國民黨一直在諷刺民進黨說要戒嚴，本席不知道現在國民黨是不是要透過選罷法實施另外一種戒嚴，就是讓罷免這兩個字連說都不能說。"],["李主任委員進勇：所以這是另外一個層次的問題，在一年以前，對於任何人做罷免的倡議，這個是……"],["林委員楚茵：對，「倡議」這兩個字，就是我現在講出來喔！本席的意思是，今天如果有人在臉書貼文，或者像現在一樣，後面有4台攝影機，剛剛甚至超過10台，只要哪一台說到罷免某某某，只要有罷免的意思，這些媒體是不是通通會被NCC罰？這些寫臉書的、寫Threads的、寫LINE的，通通都要抓去裁罰，是這樣嗎？這樣臺灣是不是回到戒嚴時的白色恐怖？","所以本席要說的是，國民黨現在是不是透過修正選罷法實施白色恐怖的戒嚴，讓罷免這兩個字連說都不能說？你認為是不是這樣？主委。如果不是的話，請問現在要怎麼罰、怎麼抓？或是怎麼定義、提議或倡議？這要怎麼界定？"],["李主任委員進勇：無從規範，中選會也無從查處。而且這牽涉到個人的言論自由問題，所以我們認為這樣的規定並不適合。"],["林委員楚茵：所以本席要特別凸顯這個荒謬之處。身為一個立法委員，立法必須是可行的，如果不可行，或者變成對臺灣的言論自由戒嚴，甚至是罷免的戒嚴，或者沒收罷免權，那麼臺灣就是走回頭路。本席也要奉勸國民黨，不要在那邊一直諷刺民進黨，自己卻默默的、偷偷摸摸的、偷雞摸狗，要利用修選罷法實施戒嚴。"],["李主任委員進勇：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請邱志偉委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":126,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-14","speakers":["徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","黃捷","王美惠","張宏陸","高金素梅","李坤城","蔡易餘","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","黃建賓","張智倫","吳琪銘","牛煦庭","吳沛憶","陳菁徽","張嘉郡","翁曉玲","張啓楷","洪孟楷","徐巧芯","林楚茵","吳思瑤","郭國文","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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