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服務費用、業務費用、檢列5000萬元委員楊瓊英等提案19 旅運費凍結10%委員謝一鳳等提案20 專業服務費、電腦軟體服務費、業務費用凍結10%委員謝一鳳等提案21 會費捐助、補助分攤救助與交流活動費凍結500萬元委員賴瑞榮等提案22 業務費用凍結20%委員李玉玲等提案23 業務成本與費用"},{"start":2098.746,"end":2099.492,"text":"投融資業務成本"},{"start":2101.118,"end":2109.084,"text":"凍結10%委員賴瑞隆等提案24、投資業務成本凍結5億元委員楊瓊英等提案25、服務費用一般服務費、佣金匯費、經理費及手續費凍結500萬元委員張祺凱等提案26、固定資產建設改良擴充一般建築及設備計劃凍結10%委員楊瓊英等提案27、凍結5%委員邱瑞穎等提案28、凍結5%委員蔡英瑜等提案"},{"start":2131.136,"end":2142.914,"text":"29.要求國發基金持續透過董事代表經由董事會運作機制協助督促轉投資事業以加強公司治理委員先一放等提案。 30."},{"start":2142.914,"end":2145.197,"text":"國發基金就如新公司申請投資案"},{"start":2146.999,"end":2173.142,"text":"應審酌問題癥結提出檢討報告委員謝一鳳等提案31國發基金部分直接投資事業年年虧損委員要求國發基金應積極檢討制定對策及加強監督委員謝一鳳等提案32國發基金應檢討加強投資案件之評估及控管機制讓需要資金挹注的中小企業能夠獲得投資委員謝一鳳等提案"},{"start":2175.467,"end":2199.166,"text":"33國發基金112年度預算編列創業天使投資方案應積極追蹤後續營運情形及清算作業規劃委員謝一鳳等提案34要求國發基金對於國家融資保證機制推動方案除提供相關產業融資計劃之需求應妥善控管風險以利該方案長遠穩健運作委員謝一鳳等提案35"},{"start":2201.091,"end":2225.309,"text":"國發基金因為依會議決議對被收購公司相與調查及評鑑應積極檢討及加強監督管理作為並於三個月內向立法院向經濟委員會提出書面報告委員張家俊等提案36國發基金對於列為追蹤戶及列管戶之投資事業以救其經營困境嚴提具體改善措施"},{"start":2225.922,"end":2253.446,"text":"於2個月內提出書面報告委員張家俊等提案。 37國發會對於列為追蹤戶及列管戶之投資事業為確實就其經營困境嚴提具體改善措施請國發會於3個月內提出書面報告委員陳超明等提案。 38要求國發基金自東南亞投資基金設立時期記報內容應揭露相關投資規劃及監督管理資訊委員陳超明等提案。"},{"start":2255.589,"end":2266.756,"text":"39.請國發基金持續透過董事代表經由董事會運作機制協助督促轉投資事業以加強公司治理委員楊瓊英等提案40."},{"start":2266.756,"end":2278.062,"text":"國發基金各項投資編列預算125億元為部分被投資事業之公司治理評鑑結果欠加以強化監督管理委員邱瑩等提案41."},{"start":2278.062,"end":2278.663,"text":"據國發會資料顯示"},{"start":2281.847,"end":2311.009,"text":"產業創新轉型基金之推動狀況與預期上有相當差距應檢討並何時改正委員秋瑩等提案。 42國發基金部分直接投資事業營運發生虧損經營績效欠佳等以積極檢討及加強監督管理作為委員秋瑩等提案。 43國發基金辦理創業投資事業營運績效能帶改善以研磨改善並積極推動辦理委員秋瑩等提案。"},{"start":2312.457,"end":2323.79,"text":"44.請國發會於1個月內提出國家融資保證機制推動方案檢討書面報告以立國會監督委員邱志偉等提案45."},{"start":2323.79,"end":2331.44,"text":"請國發會於3個月內提出追蹤戶及列管戶經營困境具體改善措施書面報告委員邱志偉等提案"},{"start":2333.988,"end":2358.776,"text":"46請國發會於3個月內提出一般貸款預決算差異說明及檢討如何核實編列當年度預算數書面報告委員邱志偉等提案47為幫助國內產業競速實現碳中和之目標國發基金必須發揮對碳權交易所之影響力藉該交易所之功能健全臺灣碳權交易之市場機制委員鄭天才等提案"},{"start":2360.472,"end":2386.568,"text":"48.國發基金應透過董事會及股東會機制督促轉投資之事業持續落實遵循公司治理相關法令規定委員鄭天才等提案49.國發基金管理會應妥善評估擬投資事業之風險加強對投資事業之監督管理委員鄭天才等提案50.要求國發基金管理會加強檢討改善投資案件之評估及控管機制"},{"start":2387.435,"end":2411.347,"text":"以提升投資績效委員鄭天才等提案51國發基金管理會應加強礦管創投事業之營運並研謀改善投資策略委員鄭天才等提案52國發基金與金融機構應於事前規範擔任農資執行單位之金融機構擅進管理人之注意義務委員鄭天才等提案53"},{"start":2413.507,"end":2432.663,"text":"國發基金管理會應加強監督執行融資銀行以為國家融資保證機制之健全運作委員鄭天才等提案54國發基金管理會應適時調整對轉投資事業之監督管理方式就其經營困境延提具體改善措施委員鄭天才等提案"},{"start":2433.323,"end":2452.944,"text":"五十五要求國發會於一個月內提出國發基金如何強化高雄新創投資以打造高雄獨角獸事業書面報告委員賴瑞榮等提案五十六國發會應於一個月內就現行國家重點領域學院推動現況供需分析提交書面報告委員賴瑞榮等提案"},{"start":2454.738,"end":2473.922,"text":"57 要求國發會於一個月內邀集新創產業主管機關及高雄市政府研商設立高雄雅灣新創研發中心並於每季提出辦理進度委員賴樂隆等提案離島建設基金委員提案58案公庫撥款收入凍結200萬元委員賴樂隆等提案59離島地區永續發展相關計畫凍結10%委員參與等提案"},{"start":2480.325,"end":2482.846,"text":"60 凍結10%委員參與等提案61 凍結3%委員陳廷飛等提案62 凍結700萬元委員張祺凱等提案"},{"start":2490.575,"end":2497.18,"text":"63案請離島建設基金滾動檢討貸款計劃推動方式以協助民間企業參與離島投資開發委員楊瓊英等提案64建請基金研議協助業者申辦融資相關業務以提高執行成效並提出誘因鼓勵民間業者參與離島投資開發請提出書面報告委員張祺凱等提案65請離島建設基金研議撥補台電之可行性作為"},{"start":2520.563,"end":2544.623,"text":"向經濟委員會提出書面報告委員張祺凱等提案66要求國發會應加強離島建設基金執行之平時管考並不定期進行實地查訪或專案檢討以提升預算執行效率委員鄭天才等提案67離島地區永續發展相關計畫執行率偏低要求國發會應加強本基金執行之平時管考"},{"start":2545.203,"end":2548.268,"text":"委員鄭天才等提案。 68."},{"start":2548.268,"end":2557.462,"text":"近年離島建設基金貸款計畫之預算執行率偏低,要求國發會因持續積極推廣融資貸款機制相關業務宣導,鼓勵民間業者參與。"},{"start":2560.947,"end":2586.934,"text":"離島投資開發委員鄭天才等提案69要求國發會於一個月內邀集經濟部財政部主計總處高雄市基金區公所及里長辦公處等單位研議提出基金島類離島相關優惠措施並將研議內容及結果提出書面報告委員賴略榮等提案花東地區永續發展基金委員提案70案花東地區永續發展相關計劃"},{"start":2588.98,"end":2594.165,"text":"檢列7000萬元委員陳亭飛等提案。 71凍結100萬元委員張祺凱等提案。72加強投資花東地區中小企業服務計畫至112年8月底指緊核准投資一家花東企業請就該計畫執行情形未如預期加強推動辦理委員楊瓊英等提案。"},{"start":2611.326,"end":2631.481,"text":"73請花東地區永續發展基金研擬方案協助花蓮縣發展SDGS目標期評估指標可行性方案委員張祺凱等提案74要求國發會應檢討並加強宣導以提升加強投資花東地區中小企業服務計劃執行率委員鄭天才等提案"},{"start":2633.157,"end":2645.765,"text":"促進轉型正義基金委員提案推動各項轉型正義計劃檢列6000萬元委員張家俊等提案76案檢列1500萬元委員陳廷飛等提案77案檢列100萬元凍結500萬元委員賴瑞榮等提案78案凍結20%委員鄭天才等提案79凍結2000萬元委員張祺凱等提案80凍結5%委員邱瑞穎等提案81凍結5%委員蔡易瑜等提案"},{"start":2663.236,"end":2676.894,"text":"82 服務費用檢列50萬元、凍結100萬元委員賴瑞榮等提案83 促轉基金主要財源為移轉國家所有之不當黨產及其資息收入以妥適規劃基金財務"},{"start":2679.335,"end":2693.486,"text":"詳時評估各項業務推動優先順序及所需經費委員丘營等提案。 84請國發會於3個月內針對促進基金財務規劃及各項業務經費使用提出書面報告委員丘志偉等提案。 85請國發會於3個月內針對推動各項轉型正義計畫如何精進改善提出書面報告委員丘志偉等提案。 宣讀完畢。"},{"start":2710.335,"end":2713.583,"text":"因為我們現場人數不足,我們先休息5分鐘。"},{"start":2859.275,"end":2879.814,"text":"好來我們現在繼續開會那請問各位同仁第5次會議議事錄當天因為地震所以我們宣讀後也沒有確定那第6次會議議事錄我們是不是一併確定請問第5次跟第6次的議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏沒有沒有好那我們就議事錄確定好那我們現在開始進行協商"},{"start":2882.036,"end":2910.555,"text":"首先先跟各位委員報告一下我們先從國發基金開始看那我們現在請看到其案第一案到第14案我們一併討論但是第一案到第三案是通案所以我們通案就先保留我們先從後面的先從下面的來做討論所以各位委員我們現在處理第4案到第8案"},{"start":2911.136,"end":2912.846,"text":"各項投資的部分"},{"start":2915.59,"end":2941.591,"text":"這個是原列數是55億元直接投資各類企業第4案到第8案來請問各位有沒有意見來賴博文委員我先提一下當然我是第一案是通案的部分不過我還是要提一下因為其實國發基金這幾個基金對整個臺灣的整個產業發展等等都很重要那我之前也常提到就是在產業上還是希望能夠均衡發展不要在重北輕南這樣一個狀況那從"},{"start":2943.272,"end":2967.158,"text":"持續追蹤以來到了這兩三年還是一樣台北的從109年的9月72件到111年的12月131件增加59件南部的高雄從2件增加到5件增加3件新北也增加15件桃園增加6件台中增加6件從整個來看其實整個發展的趨勢上確實還是以北部為"},{"start":2968.098,"end":2968.218,"text":"以上"},{"start":2996.408,"end":3007.054,"text":"好,那你建議要凍結多少?我們現在的凍結有包括陳庭菲委員是減列3000萬那陳昌明委員是凍結10%邱志偉委員是凍結1000張其凱委員是凍結700邱志偉委員另外有一個案是凍結300所以"},{"start":3014.765,"end":3032.652,"text":"對 我是直接建議就是凍結 比如說 凍結個 就是不要刪減啦 因為我覺得這些經費也都很重要 凍結一億 然後給他們一些壓力去區域間的金融發展 不要只重視在北部 北部很輕鬆推啦 很容易 但是中南部其實需要加大力道來推動凍結一億喔 有點多欸"},{"start":3037.514,"end":3044.859,"text":"你講的是通案的部分嗎?我們先不處理通案,我們先處理下面各項投資分重分項。那你現在是整個125要動一億?"},{"start":3053.074,"end":3053.355,"text":"陳婷薇委員"},{"start":3078.77,"end":3100.625,"text":"因為有很多的不同的現象發生所以我認為說就是我們各項投資就是動一億然後書面報告我徵詢一下大家的意見如果你們決定從通案開始凍結的話那等我們後面從第4案到第10案就不處理了好不好 大家有沒有意見 那個鄭委員"},{"start":3103.103,"end":3103.983,"text":"來,副主委您要說明嗎?來來來,你要站在那裡,麥克風"},{"start":3136.41,"end":3150.145,"text":"國際基金在針對於剛剛賴委員所提到的中南部的整個投資的部分其實在最近的兩三年我們都一直的在"},{"start":3151.087,"end":3164.462,"text":"高雄、台南地區有辦相關的說明會以及媒合會希望說能夠促成當地的業者能夠跟國家基金有深的一些連結甚至能夠得到所謂的成案的這種狀況"},{"start":3165.863,"end":3193.259,"text":"所以確實我想賴委員也很清楚知道我們確實非常努力的在進行對於剛剛說凍結的部分我比較直接的建議因為這些經費的部分確實是對希望在臺灣投資者的部分很多的所謂的國家基金的功能的部分將可能會受到一些影響所以我建議說可以考慮說凍結但是不要那麼高的金額是不是可以這樣做這種考慮"},{"start":3204.077,"end":3204.318,"text":"陳婷菲委員"},{"start":3207.052,"end":3207.072,"text":"委員長"},{"start":3237.332,"end":3238.273,"text":"請問高委員如果沒有意見的話來邱志偉委員"},{"start":3263.304,"end":3280.346,"text":"這個當然是很重要但是希望說支援能夠更合理分配剛剛陳定黑委員說的南北分配長期的失衡這部分請在邊境預算的時候能夠更加注意特別是台南跟高雄這個特別要加強還有彰化"},{"start":3282.308,"end":3300.823,"text":"另外,關於對國外投資,中東歐的投資有設基金。我之前也要求針對東西的國家也有相關的投資計畫,也編了相關的預算。所以這部分當然是支持,但是希望你們能夠,第一個,"},{"start":3301.784,"end":3301.904,"text":"主席"},{"start":3324.619,"end":3337.206,"text":"我再講一下我知道國防會當然有在努力但是這9年來其實我每次都在提這件事情但是從結果論來看其實到現在為止從109年到111年這兩年來整個增減的數字我再講一次臺北增加59件從72增加到131新北市從9件增加24台中從6增加到12"},{"start":3350.034,"end":3371.198,"text":"高雄從2增加到5增加3件而已台南中7增加13件而已從結果論來看這8年成果其實相當緩慢幾乎還是以北為優先所以我是還是建議其實要給予凍結那國防要再加油不要讓南北的失衡狀愈來愈嚴重那個謝一鳳委員然後再來楊全英委員"},{"start":3372.874,"end":3401.963,"text":"副主委我很久沒看到你不知道你變那麼瘦可是我覺得還是要講一下就是說不只是南北失衡其實中部也是要兼顧所以對於彰化地區我不知道你們好像都是在委員會都有說要照顧彰化可是事實上都沒有是不是都沒有兼顧彰化地區的發展所以我覺得就是讓若榮講得很好他就說那個"},{"start":3404.345,"end":3411.695,"text":"臺北都是臺北那彰化跟彰化也要啊好不好還有你剛才說動1億是125億動1億"},{"start":3418.96,"end":3435.811,"text":"對,我們剛剛的決議就是包括鄭天才委員也同意就是說通案的125億元整個凍結1億那後面的後面的個別的那個就後面的下面的個別的案子我們就不處理了就是整個125億就凍結1億剛剛鄭天才委員也對,那楊瓊英委員您要發言"},{"start":3448.89,"end":3471.764,"text":"謝謝主席我有感而發那個副主委你是要升任主委了嗎因為今天預算解讀案很重要主委怎麼沒有來主委去律師長面試還是什麼記者會啦記者會是什麼記者會什麼記者會就是新格的喔的新格了嘛"},{"start":3473.122,"end":3479.744,"text":"就升了嗎?升了因為今天特別派你來我們主席也同意表示是你要升主委嗎?"},{"start":3481.121,"end":3509.038,"text":"沒有你沒得到訊息無所惜無所惜喔好我們不管誰我們就是希望為民眾針對剛剛所討論的議題也就是說我們的中小企業我們大家都很清楚我們全國的勞工中小企業占了三分之二點多都是在這一個區塊對不對所以這一塊非常的重要尤其是我們中部地區我們要同時去創造了台灣的奇跡"},{"start":3511.159,"end":3535.129,"text":"創造了台灣基金但是我們沒有得到你們的青睞很多的比如說青創啊這些都是在北部的我們中南部的委員、東部的委員為什麼我們每一次都苦苦講苦苦講都沒有什麼青睞你是不是這樣子好不好你把你的那個協助的比例你列表出來給我們看"},{"start":3536.567,"end":3537.907,"text":"請國發會來提書面報告後使得動之"},{"start":3568.465,"end":3593.239,"text":"他就會提那個詳細的報告嗎?對對對對對整個125億元好整個投資計劃125億元我們就凍結1億然後請他們提出詳細的書面報告好來各位謝謝各位委員接下來我們看第15案跟第16案是一般貸款的部分120億元現在有陳廷飛委員提簡列2000萬陳昌明委員提凍結5個%好來"},{"start":3599.349,"end":3601.077,"text":"請說明一下一般貸款的部分"},{"start":3606.495,"end":3630.8,"text":"我想跟各位委員報告因為整個在一般貸款的部分實務上我們執行率是超過原來的預算數就是說實際上願者假如有那個需要經過我們審議的結果認為是符合的部分我們都同意去給他支援所以整體上來講我們是覺得說我們執行率甚至都超過百分之百的那種狀況之下我們希望說你們跟我們支持我們會在"},{"start":3631.84,"end":3653.707,"text":"很久後續在編列預算的時候我們會再做一些調整讓它更符合實際上的需要來請問各位委員這個是要貸款給一些中小企業來那個楊瓊英委員接下來是陳婷婷這個我是支持但是有幾個細項本席要請教您剛才講的有一點盲點就是說你們都超過這個120億是嗎"},{"start":3658.963,"end":3667.098,"text":"你前三年的這個決算請說明去年是193億那為什麼你現在變120億呢?"},{"start":3671.809,"end":3693.68,"text":"因為預算我們當時是推估說去年整個經濟的成長的過程裡面那你現在推估現在只有120億所以是經濟更低迷不是所以但我們發現是有這種需求因為剛好疫情之後很多業者他們要繼續的讓他做得更好的那現在業者就不需要嗎?我們這麼小的企業現在很可憐"},{"start":3695.722,"end":3705.19,"text":"有啊,就是中小企業的部分對啊,就現在很可憐啊那為什麼從190幾億會降到自動降來120億不是,我剛剛比如說你剛剛又說你一定會超過120億那你這份預算我怎麼信?我給委員報告是我們編預算120億實際上執行達到190幾億不是變少是變多對啊,那你"},{"start":3721.275,"end":3738.213,"text":"你沒聽清楚本席的意思是說你已經是決算是190幾億你怎麼會減你怎麼反而會更少編120億照理講你的決算190幾億你應該會會更加啊因為你需求增加嘛需求增加為什麼減少呢"},{"start":3739.554,"end":3743.515,"text":"你去年的決算確定是190幾億嗎?最近幾年我們都編120億啦這個就是我本期在說的來主席本期在說的他去年度他已經決算是190幾億那你現在告訴網絡社會沒關你沒辦法先注意啊"},{"start":3757.54,"end":3783.199,"text":"你每一年都一樣固定121你不當作我們這間都空的不可以這樣子嘛 對不對你已經看到市場的需求是需求你為什麼不編出來呢我們還誤以為說我們的量體只有在121難怪我們在基層我們的中小企業要求啊你們也協助啊那為什麼不把預算弄真的本期一直強調說我們審預算的時候都非常的希望"},{"start":3783.999,"end":3784.399,"text":"陳婷菲 請回答"},{"start":3812.958,"end":3828.049,"text":"副主委,你這樣的講法真的很容易讓我們審不下去,就是說你120億說沒夠,我們一年沒夠,尤其幾年就已經170億了,195億了,這樣你計算要怎麼辦?你多出來的這些要怎麼辦?我想我們會用操之並決算的方式處理"},{"start":3839.188,"end":3854.166,"text":"所以你用超支並決算問題就出來了不是你們那個預算的編例既然你們都已經超支了為什麼每年都還是只編列120億啊可不可以說明一下理由我這個比較完整的說明一下因為以往"},{"start":3855.147,"end":3878.61,"text":"幾年這樣看起來120億是夠的在去年特別高的因素我們當時做一些分析了解是因為之前疫情已經達到一個階段以後很多的企業都希望再增加他的產能而且生育比較好所以去年的部分是特別拉高是因為這樣子所以我們當時去年的只有去年是特別的特別的高"},{"start":3879.491,"end":3883.494,"text":"那你們預估今年不會高嗎?你們預估今年不會特別高?所以你們還是就回到原來120億的編列?你們為什麼不把它拉高一點?表示你們對台灣的企業前景看好、經濟看好?"},{"start":3895.945,"end":3910.77,"text":"是,我們當時處理方的思考是說這個今年特別高我們當然會滾動檢討的方式來去調新的預算你要滾動檢討你預算已經送到立法院來你也不能檢討你也不能增加我們也不能在這裡給你增列阿"},{"start":3912.271,"end":3926.744,"text":"還有一個問題就是說你今天你到底門檻要怎麼看就是說你一定是每次我們如果有一些專案預算或是有一些貸款預算要否我們一些需求的一些廠商"},{"start":3927.705,"end":3946.277,"text":"那我們一定會有一些門檻嘛對好那你門檻送進來什麼時候截止什麼時候這個你的案子就是到哪個時間那你沒有定的話那你說你可以一次崩到從120億崩到195億那當時候就是通通都有了嗎"},{"start":3947.017,"end":3965.293,"text":"那如果不知道這個訊息的人就不知道原來有這麼合康我可以去申請這個所謂的機械設備的升級貸款或是海外投資的融資貸款或是機械或是機器設備輸出的貸款就變成知道的人知道申請欸那不知道的人怎麼知道申請"},{"start":3966.494,"end":3979.659,"text":"所以我覺得這個有太多的問題啊而且你不是只有超出11你說超出11是我們門檻關了之後然後沒有辦法多了你不是喔你一次超出了75億75億不是小數字欸"},{"start":3984.013,"end":4011.925,"text":"所以在這樣的狀態之下表示你們就是大家都來可是那對於不知道的人是不是不公平知道的人我可以來申請大家都可以OK那不知道的人就好像就是被你們排在門檻之外的我覺得這問題很大欸如果說沒有去討論好那120億明明就已經跟去年已經差了那麼多了那你要怎麼合啊"},{"start":4018,"end":4042.381,"text":"楊委員您再發言謝謝主席楊先生發言我們現在實際在討論因為今天是在立法院的經濟委員會審查國發會的凍結案那審查這些預算我們很重審查預算就是說我們國發會的基金我們一直說國發會是我們的政府的小行政院而且是政府的心臟"},{"start":4043.422,"end":4066.25,"text":"那這個讓我們覺得太壓抑了也就是你去年當然你最後一步就是預算這個超支預算變決算嘛那可是說如果說立法院經濟委員會在經過通過之後經過大院審查出去的預算竟然是你們必須要增加大概到七成的預算那這一些立法委員"},{"start":4067.23,"end":4079.14,"text":"怎麼對民眾來交代呢所以你如果這樣子還沒有感受到的時候沒有去調整你們的預算有兩個可能性你們表示今年度113年的預算你一樣編120億的時候換句話說代表看衰我們113年度台灣的經濟這是第一點"},{"start":4088.507,"end":4107.965,"text":"第二點也就是你們國防會跟你們的橫向政策根本完全沒有在聯繫沒有在聯繫的理由是什麼本期有說本的告訴你現在脫碳減碳什麼碳大家一直在開說明會而且不管任何的財團反而一直在協助我們中小企業中小企業的老闆我要為他們講一句話"},{"start":4110.487,"end":4127.215,"text":"我如果不發,一定不會讓政府還想辦法自己要去讀到懂所有的主管都在讀都在聽演講都在參與那我們的國防會沒有考慮到我們今年度所面臨最大的挑戰就是探"},{"start":4127.975,"end":4145.493,"text":"要怎麼樣看他要怎麼樣數位轉型這是經濟部長跟你們主委每一次在經濟委員會一直在講的問題這一些也是政府編列預算要協助中小企業你從原來的樣本大家都賣到原來的樣本你121基本上就不夠了"},{"start":4146.826,"end":4166.183,"text":"你原本原來的樣本通通不要再加你本來就不夠了那你為什麼不實際上把預算去呈現呢那你真的我不希望說真的我們的國安會是認為台灣113年的這個經濟是看衰的我是不認同這一點的我先讓你回答好不好節省時間來請回答"},{"start":4169.065,"end":4198.576,"text":"高委員會報告因為跟各位報告剛剛我特別提到說就去年為什麼特別高是因為疫後的關係很多的企業都繼續希望再擴大產能希望增加一些資金能夠做更好的發展這是所以造成貸款的額數是增加的第二個部分我們現在所有貸款的標準的部分跟程序都是一致的我們不會說因為怎樣有改變這個部分第二個說明第三個部分為什麼沒有"},{"start":4199.136,"end":4220.269,"text":"在今年的預算裡面做很快速的反應因為我想各位委員都很清楚實際上113年的預算是在去年的7、8月份的時候就差不多要處理就做定案的所以在7、8月的時候那時候整個反應沒有那麼激烈所以當時就沒有辦法在113年去做一些比較快速的反應"},{"start":4220.709,"end":4233.958,"text":"但是在114年就是明年的部分我們會參酌112跟113部分的狀況以後我們去做一些調整滾動調整讓額度能夠再做適度的提高等一下那個邱志偉委員先發言"},{"start":4235.656,"end":4256.25,"text":"請教副主委就這三個項目裡面是哪一個項目增加最多是機器設備升級貸款比較多呢海外投資的融貸款大概增加多少機器設備輸出貸款增加多少這三項主要貸款的這個項目是哪一項需求最高"},{"start":4257.091,"end":4258.612,"text":"政府最高?"},{"start":4258.612,"end":4285.002,"text":"你要讓我們知道?什麼原因?跟委員報告因為我們整個資料看到的狀況是在所謂的輸出設備貸款的比例增加最多了也就是說我們出口廠商的部分確實我們發現到說整體上去年的出口是相對是暢旺的所以有那種需求所以才會增加特別多金額大概是多少?你說一下"},{"start":4288.354,"end":4297.299,"text":"那個112年的決算機器設備輸出貸款的決算數是135億你看你編了85億你超額需求100到60億50億對不對85你需求是135億那50億他要給你貸款你沒有錢貸給他那他怎麼樣順利出口"},{"start":4311.289,"end":4339.29,"text":"今年不可能一下子抓不到這個過去的水準一定可能景氣還是會維持平穩或甚至維持上望它可能需求更多甚至超過決算的135億那要給你們貸款的時候你們又如何應付呢?因為這是基金的狀況我們假如說不夠的時候我們可以透過超支並決算的方式所以基本上來講我們的資金是充裕的相對是充裕的"},{"start":4341.249,"end":4350.577,"text":"你怎麼去協助廠商把他們的設備輸出這部分他就沒辦法輸出他也沒辦法創會他也沒辦法增加利潤"},{"start":4370.171,"end":4388.326,"text":"所以這部分你們知道這個當需要國家支持的時候你沒有給他辦法給他支持就是政府沒有做好所以這部分你看這個落差如此之大你們沒有辦法立即去反映那這個問題一定要解決你要想出一個辦法來解決"},{"start":4393.26,"end":4406.208,"text":"謝謝主席那個副主委你的觀念喔立法委員是希望政府一定要協助中小企業當然你的基金整趟會在那你絕對不會不夠錢"},{"start":4408.149,"end":4428.507,"text":"那你既然已經看到尤其是我們外匯存底我們的外匯存底是世界的美誉代表著我們的企業特別是中小企業是這麼這麼的辛苦這麼這麼的努力那政府更沒有理由不支持他們所以我們也看到你已經你說7、8月"},{"start":4432.189,"end":4460.828,"text":"才看到你整三年我們的貸款絕對都超支絕對就是超支並決算那本席要跟你討論的就是說你們都已經知道超支並決算你的需求不是不止120億為什麼你每一年幾年來都是編列120億這樣子對人民來講是不公平努力是不夠這樣子對人民來對立法委員在立法院審查預算看不到你真的預算這也不好"},{"start":4461.448,"end":4469.794,"text":"所以本席具體告訴你第一個我們絕對全力要請政府支持我們的中小企業這是非常重要"},{"start":4492.142,"end":4512.885,"text":"思考為什麼你預算不呈現出來是不是主席來採視一下好不好我覺得這個案子這可以看出來國發會大概每一年都是便宜形式反正你就是編列固定編列120億那即使你們的經濟預測一直是往好轉的方向但是你們還是"},{"start":4513.922,"end":4532.637,"text":"就是便宜形式就固定編列120億那去年已經短缺了所以我們也沒有但是我們也沒有辦法在這裡增加你們的預算所以我是不是建議各位委員我們就預算照列那是我們要求他們在今年要開始編列明年度預算的時候應該要是整體的經濟狀況跟過去的預算決算執行的狀態來把這一般貸款的預算應該左右增加"},{"start":4543.919,"end":4544.949,"text":"好,各位同意嗎?"},{"start":4547.827,"end":4552.81,"text":"他還是要從他原來裡面的錢裡頭去運資啊你只能從121花完了以後他還是要從裡面的錢運資啊那差別在哪裡?"},{"start":4576.328,"end":4590.379,"text":"如果你用完之後用其他的基金可以融資嗎?你有沒有錢可以如果有超額需求我想基金其他的經費來允是沒問題的"},{"start":4597.588,"end":4626.739,"text":"我們已經討論很久了要不要就是大家一句話謝謝主席國發會我慎重的尊敬你們但是要求你們今天一個行政院的小行政院國發會今天一個行政院最重要的頭腦跟心臟都在看牌都在騙這樣子的預算明明呈現怎麼可以如此呢對不對你明明可以看出今年需要的看"},{"start":4628.098,"end":4649.494,"text":"我們中小企業需要協助的你不給他呈現出來不能這樣啦 對不對政府照顧中小企業是天經地義的事情他在為我們賺錢他在為我們拼命 對不對所以我具體要求你把你前三年你的預算項目別數額跟你的決算請列表出來"},{"start":4650.655,"end":4653.617,"text":"是不是就照主席剛剛的才事好不好"},{"start":4678.064,"end":4696.913,"text":"請國發會也詳時把過去3年來的這些貸款補助的這些計劃案送報告給各位委員以及經濟委員會我們就預算照列接下來我們請看業務支出的部分我們看17案到第20案服務費用"},{"start":4699.67,"end":4720.464,"text":"第17案的服務費用是通案碼號有30億那17到20服務費用的部分我們現在有賴瑞隆委員、楊瓊英委員、謝一芬委員的提案請國發會說明這個部分是我們在做那些所謂的投融資貸款或"},{"start":4721.601,"end":4722.241,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業"},{"start":4740.151,"end":4755.424,"text":"我們評估陽明海運的部分是比預期的少所以收入減少但是那個服務費用確實是業務量變大所以就是業務量增加所以造成目前這種現象來日榮委員這個預算從111年的決算數的時候相較於現在的預算數其實增加的相當多"},{"start":4767.355,"end":4773.964,"text":"副主席要不要說明一下增加了還有112年的目前的整個初步你們看了決算狀況是怎麼樣可不可以說明一下"},{"start":4778.752,"end":4780.653,"text":"那執行狀況怎麼樣?去年度的執行狀況"},{"start":4811.3,"end":4814.412,"text":"來,相關業務單位的人上來說明快"},{"start":4819.069,"end":4842.771,"text":"根根委員報告我們去年在1、2年度的決算的時候相關的像投融資業務成本指數率都達到9成5以上然後就是這邊最主要的服務費用其實最主要就是投融資業務成本那包括一些譬如說我們有一些台商一些那個"},{"start":4844.392,"end":4872.618,"text":"一切那個貸款的一些我們都有一些服務的相關的應該說是服務的費用然後還有一個就是那個臺商加速回流我們有一些貸款的手續費那其實都是國發基金在支援所以對這些的那個貸款的服務費用其實都增加的蠻多的所以這幾年的業務量確實是有成長那其實我們剛剛也報告大概達到九成五以下"},{"start":4873.479,"end":4897.868,"text":"好 那我具體建議因為你從21億110年21到112年增加30億增加9億但是你執行率其實還是到9乘5而已那我是具體建議就凍結啦凍結1000萬然後提出輸贏報告我希望還是要能夠好的一些這個規劃跟運用那執行率的部分應該要再持續來提升好 那個楊卿議員之後邱志偉委員"},{"start":4899.329,"end":4917.06,"text":"謝謝主席 楊卿發言針對本席所提案第18案這個1.5121萬億那個3000元的請做說明一下好嗎你們跟去年度的比較跟110年度111年度的決算比對是第18案"},{"start":4928.228,"end":4928.708,"text":"預算總額比例"},{"start":4953.033,"end":4968.272,"text":"額度你110、111年的決算、112年決算、112年的決算、112年編列多少、決算多少?是,跟委員報告一下,我們110、110"},{"start":4973.939,"end":4974.58,"text":"本席請問的是本席所請問的這一個部分"},{"start":4987.518,"end":5009.543,"text":"18案楊卓英委員提到的這個部分的業務費用向下你們現在的預算是編列1億5000多萬的這個區塊去年的決算是多少?去年的預算編列是多少?決算是多少?這國發會你們自己的業務連這個都搞不清楚"},{"start":5014.682,"end":5015.122,"text":"來 休息5分鐘"},{"start":5053.06,"end":5064.807,"text":"二天一次會議二天一次會議二天一次會議"},{"start":5085.302,"end":5092.628,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":5102.521,"end":5125.645,"text":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會第3次全體委員會第4次全體委員會第5次全體委員會第6次全體委員會第7次全體委員會第8次全體委員會第9次全體委員會第10次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第14"},{"start":5130.93,"end":5154.065,"text":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2會期經濟委員會第3會期經濟委員會第4會期經濟委員會第5會期經濟委員會第6會期經濟委員會第7會期經濟委員會第8會期經濟委員會第9會期經濟委員會第10會期經濟委員會第11會期經濟委員會第12會期經濟委員會第13會期經濟委員會第14會期經濟委員會第15會期經濟委員會第16會期經濟委員會第17會期經濟委員會第18會期經濟委員會第18會期經濟委員會第19會期經濟委員會第19會期經濟委員會第20會期經濟委員會"},{"start":5155.179,"end":5180.139,"text":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會第7次全體委員會第8次全體委員會第8次全體委員會第9次全體委員會第10次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第14"},{"start":5181.159,"end":5186.942,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":5211.217,"end":5214.239,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":5234.167,"end":5240.371,"text":"委員會委員會"},{"start":5248.922,"end":5256.668,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第3會期經濟委員會第4會期經濟委員會第5會期經濟委員會第6會期經濟委員會第7會期經濟委員會第8會期經濟委員會第9會期"},{"start":5271.58,"end":5271.6,"text":"國務委員會議"},{"start":5295.795,"end":5296.978,"text":"時間差不多了,我們開始開會"},{"start":5307.998,"end":5308.218,"text":"國安委員請說明"},{"start":5326.897,"end":5355.154,"text":"三千三百多主要的費用就是中東歐投融資基金所需要的相關的服務費用因為我們當時這個部分我們是委託蘇雲來辦理國外會有幾個案子有委託蘇雲來辦理所以他在整個服務費用的部分包括辦公室的費用相關服務費用他就算得比較少的方式跟我們要那個經費所以我們的執行率就相對是比較低一點這樣說明"},{"start":5359.98,"end":5377.352,"text":"謝謝主席楊全元發言針對18案因為我們一直看國發會的預算不知道要怎麼去審國發會的預算今天為什麼本席一定要請你說112年到底是怎麼回事我們看到的預算編列1300多億直循率是3000多萬"},{"start":5382.575,"end":5397.732,"text":"那等於是執行率三成但是呢你緩113年你又增加一千多萬增加兩千萬左右那我們也不知道你的內容到底是什麼"},{"start":5398.593,"end":5412.916,"text":"你到底你原本執行率只有三成你現在又增加兩千萬又增加兩成的預算那你到底你要做什麼沒有那個天馬行空在審預算的"},{"start":5414.057,"end":5434.953,"text":"這個我們邏輯很奇怪你今天審查預算你們制定預算編列預算一定有你的KPI我預計要怎樣照理講你今天來到這裡要審預算你應該要主動報告我們這一項112年我們一千一億三千多萬我們執行率只有三成原因是什麼東東東所以我們呢在今年度為了加強經濟我們再增加兩千萬我們預計要做什麼請院會支持"},{"start":5441.164,"end":5446.329,"text":"有關於我們當時在新的年度要增加預算的部分我們當時是考慮到說因為中東歐投融資的業務的部分也是我們目前國發基金非常重要的部分我們希望針對於"},{"start":5467.367,"end":5490.412,"text":"在中東歐對我們友善的國家的部分我們希望能夠在經貿的部分有更多的發展的部分所以我們也希望也鼓勵我們國內的廠商以及中東歐當地的廠商能夠跟我們做相關的國際的貿易的部分來我請教一下你這個1億5000萬你一直講中東歐它的比例上是怎麼分配你的比例上"},{"start":5491.633,"end":5516.753,"text":"你1億5000萬的比例你中東歐是佔百分之多少預計佔百分之多少然後其他的地區是佔百分之多少是謝謝主席有關於這個1億5000萬的部分我們主要是中東歐融資基金的話我們是編列1億然後這個國家融資保證我們是編列了2300萬另外有一個天使的這個計畫我們是編列了425萬"},{"start":5528.665,"end":5551.753,"text":"支持我們的產業都很支持越說明越讓我們憂心中共今天執行不了當然他是一個政治任命政治任命執行不了的時候你繼續編你應該告訴我們你們預計要怎麼樣可以達到什麼都沒有關係政治任命也好"},{"start":5553.157,"end":5576.91,"text":"指定都好都沒有關係可是你已經執行不了你一樣這樣編跟那個120億一樣一樣的貸款明明要190幾億你還是一樣120億通通不動你已經執行不了的一年度的預算一億執行不了你還是一樣編還要增加2000萬增加2000萬是增加什麼天使的不難得有天使啊"},{"start":5578.817,"end":5578.837,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":5591.883,"end":5601.729,"text":"是,跟委員報告一下就是增加2000萬的部分主要是我們之前在112年國家融資保證我們是編了1900萬那113年因為我們覺得融資保證的業務會成長所以我們是編了2300萬增加的部分主要是在這邊"},{"start":5611.533,"end":5635.46,"text":"你聽不太懂楊瓊英委員的問題他不是問你整個增加2000萬是增加在哪裡他問的是你中東投資的部分去年的執行率已經不好了為什麼今年還是一樣編列這麼多錢是你們有看到那個前景變好有什麼特別的因素什麼特別的理由讓你們今年一樣編列這麼多錢"},{"start":5637.731,"end":5665.354,"text":"是,跟主席還有各位委員報告就是國家融資保證中東歐融資基金其實是110年年底11年年底才規劃的那剛開始規劃的時候當然在業務推展上出擊會比較慢一點那整個年度下來之後那個整個運作模式大概已經慢慢的成形所以我們會覺得將來的業務會更順所以我們才會多增加來編列以上報告我請問"},{"start":5668.32,"end":5679.306,"text":"110年規劃111年執行不了112年執行不了113年繼續我們看不到所以我要請教誰指定要做這個中東歐誰指定你對那個指定的人也對不起啊三年做不了啊"},{"start":5694.915,"end":5704.863,"text":"那我們看不到你說好像有比較好那如果變略預算還是沒有辦法呈現那這個邏輯太奇怪啦又沒有什麼不可抗的這個因素這種政治命定的議題還執行不了那麼我們國家要聽誰的啊對不對這讓我們嚇到我人民要跟著誰走啊"},{"start":5724.372,"end":5742.577,"text":"這個太奇怪了所以主席你看到這樣子的預算我們在審查我們真的覺得來是不是主席猜試一下好不好那這一個部分齁這一個部分的業務我們是不是就凍結3000萬"},{"start":5746.738,"end":5753.132,"text":"然後請國發會提出詳細的書面報告之後使得動之"},{"start":5754.307,"end":5780.744,"text":"請各位有沒有意見我尊重主席但是我還是要認就你中東歐你自己的KPI你要寫出來我們一起加油不行的你要轉向我們其他國家的需求你們都不要你們命定政治命定三年不行你如果拿這個預算表面去當外交我們也願意啦"},{"start":5781.704,"end":5792.996,"text":"怎麼樣幫助國家啦但是不能不清不楚對不對而且不能不清不楚每一年固定這樣子這樣子你讓讓我們這些委員怎麼對我們人民交代啊"},{"start":5795.75,"end":5797.572,"text":"接下來我們請看第21跟22案"},{"start":5817.694,"end":5845.104,"text":"原列數是13億7200多萬那我們現在有賴瑞榮委員跟呂玉玲委員的提案是不是請國發會說明這個經費主要就是我們要處理那個就跟教育部一起在處理那個重點領域的人才培訓的部分我們分別在11個大學有12個學院裡面來資助"},{"start":5847.407,"end":5860.387,"text":"他在做重點領域學院所需要的經費除了業者只要占一半我們占一半的方式但是希望能夠讓我們重點領域的人才的部分能夠符合業界的需要所做的一個計畫"},{"start":5863.702,"end":5865.484,"text":"律政委員律政委員律政委員律政委員"},{"start":5881.943,"end":5899.431,"text":"清交這個也有啦齁阿當然中興、成功、中山我要講的是我認為其實在這件事情上的比例上面幾乎也是偏重在臺北的學校那我覺得這個還是一樣持續會讓國家資源跟挹注在北部的時候讓北部更強中南部更弱啦齁"},{"start":5899.691,"end":5928.24,"text":"所以我覺得這件事情上還是要請國發要神思考中南部也有很多其他很好的一些科技大學甚至有很多綜合性的大學應該要協助他們有更多的資源來發展不然這樣子會讓彼此的落差更大更全部的人才跟資源所有的一些好的技術全部都在留在北部這個對於整個區域均衡發展會是很大的問題所以我建議凍結500萬重新去檢討下一次我希望能提出明年度能夠提出更好的一個整個規劃的方案出來"},{"start":5928.766,"end":5955.637,"text":"好接下來李玉琳委員那下一位是蔡易瑜委員之後陳婷菲委好謝謝主席提案是22案因為這項費用除了你補助大學為各領域的研究外你也是有輔導跟推展各項的投資事業跟創業的投資的相關的活動但是我們看到我們國發基金對於推動產業投資的主要的平台但是你很多次"},{"start":5956.297,"end":5972.667,"text":"很多次都誤判尤其導致很多的虧損如果說以紡織業來講的話像你盧鑫他帳面上已經虧損了10億還有另外一家的台灣的這個耐微光的科技他也爆發了關鍵的技術轉移到大陸的這些正義"},{"start":5973.487,"end":5989.659,"text":"所以我們的國發基金在整個投資前的評估、審查跟投資後的管控作業都很多的疏漏疏失所以我們希望凍結給你們做一個大的改善計畫讓我們更加的了解你如何去管控投資好不好"},{"start":5990.8,"end":6013.203,"text":"蔡議員謝謝主席我要叫國發會就是說你們的補助對象包括這些大學那這些大學到底是做怎樣的重點領域重點領域到底是什麼以及產學合作做了哪些事情符合你們要補助的產學合作"},{"start":6013.743,"end":6041.809,"text":"那你們的補助對象匡列了這11間大學你想說我們嘉義包括我們嘉義包括中正嘉義大學幾乎也都沒有在裡面那沒有的話到底是你們去認定是他們沒心情還是說你們覺得他們沒有重點領域那我再具體講像現在虎克大他們不斷的在做飛機修理飛機修理系現在年輕人"},{"start":6042.885,"end":6043.966,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位"},{"start":6063.234,"end":6078.755,"text":"就半導體產業的人才培訓讓這些體育界這個這些國手的他們可以在做這個體育就是雖然是體育系但是他們在國手的訓練過課程中可以同時有半導體的"},{"start":6079.856,"end":6107.675,"text":"學程讓他們在畢業後也可以有機會進到半導體的領域那像這樣的體育署的計畫真好啊也不是你們的重點領域因為高雄大學沒有在裡面嘛那所以你們的重點領域到底是什麼那可以你們這樣的投入這些預算到底可以創造了哪些績效因為我剛講了包括半導體跟無人機都是台灣很重要的產業但是看起來沒有在裡面啊"},{"start":6110.066,"end":6110.687,"text":"陳婷菲委員陳婷菲委員"},{"start":6129.847,"end":6150.442,"text":"就是說知道的人他永遠知道知道的人他可以拿到政府補助永遠都拿到政府補助有些還拿到人家說的太多了大家計畫寫一寫好像很輕鬆可是有些人為了要進這個門檻要拿政府的預算他覺得比登天還難"},{"start":6152.438,"end":6170.268,"text":"然後每一次好不容易寫了一份計畫之後送進來不好意思我們截止了時間到了或是我們名額滿了還有我們的預算已經超出了所以我們會對於說剛剛你121K馬上到195億到底這個門檻誰在盯說我可以繼續追加"},{"start":6180.08,"end":6203.13,"text":"然後為什麼還有很多人被擋在門外這才是我們質疑的我們覺得說既然政府的預算這都是人民的納稅錢大家應該是一致性有需要的有需要扶植的有需要我們來拉他一把的這都是很關鍵的可能你拉了他一把他後面一帆風順可是"},{"start":6206.328,"end":6231.88,"text":"如果需要的人覺得我就是可以寫了計畫就來他不會珍惜所以從所有的資料我們每次調每次講中南部不受重視還是不受重視他所有的大區塊好像你們在消耗預算一樣趕快來趕快來被你們邀來的永遠就是在這個區塊金字塔頂端"},{"start":6235.438,"end":6263.988,"text":"然後需要的人永遠被遺忘所以我認為這真的是我還是認為這個部分要凍結你要重新整個到底未來我們要怎麼扶植這些學校然後讓他們能夠有同樣的資訊同樣的一些入門這比較重要所以我認為要凍結那凍結多少尊重主席"},{"start":6265.302,"end":6287.062,"text":"楊卓英委員楊卓英委員發言之後我們就停止討論非常感謝主席那個國安費我還是想要了解像我們朝陽我們在5年前籌劃我們的那個飛機修護本來我們是要飛機旅遊就是休閒產業"},{"start":6289.344,"end":6310.637,"text":"但是呢教育部告訴我們現在修飛機的人很少所以拜託你們先從修理修護的這個部分去設系我們同意這個就是我很讚許的政府跟民間跟學校大家合作去討論你培訓出來的是我們社會上所需要的讓大家都有榮譽感"},{"start":6312.106,"end":6336.522,"text":"但是我也質疑過為什麼你們不要申請國發會?錢都沒夠啊為什麼不要?就剛剛陳委員所說的所以我希望要有一個資料你們要申請的你們的SOP流程是怎樣?你的審查是怎樣?應該你們要針對他真的是有能力可以做的你們要去支援他他才會開發成果"},{"start":6337.455,"end":6351.444,"text":"你不是齊頭式的補助啊你這些預算你拿你去年度就好了不要拿到疫情這個4年前的你拿去年度的你去拿拿出來你看看你們補助他們他們的成效是怎麼樣"},{"start":6354.441,"end":6374.449,"text":"這都是人民的納稅錢你不要讓有能力的人他乾脆不給你申請那這個政府會完蛋喔他沒有加成的效果我再一次強調所有的錢不管公務不管基金都是人民的納稅錢不容許他沒有成效的"},{"start":6375.949,"end":6400.088,"text":"所以我希望要這個資料來主席好來謝謝那我們是不是我們就這個13億7千多萬的預算我們是不是就凍結500萬然後請國發會提出完整的書面報告包括楊瓊玉委員剛剛的還有那個陳庭菲委員剛剛的建議的部分"},{"start":6400.788,"end":6419.404,"text":"好不好希望了解他們的重點領域是對對對好就是剛剛委員提問的部分是不是能夠請國發會提出一個完整的書面報告我還是希望聽副主委講一下因為剛剛我提到了其實所有的資源的分配裡面臺大政大包括師大包括台北科技大學"},{"start":6420.58,"end":6424.905,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於行政院國家發展基金、離島建設基金及促進轉型正義基金及促進轉型正義基金及促進轉型"},{"start":6443.533,"end":6458.711,"text":"來請說明謝謝我大概簡單說明一下就是因為我們當時是整體評估了目前在業界上所需要的一些相對的重要的人才高階的人才的部分所以我們就跟教育部合作"},{"start":6459.392,"end":6480.398,"text":"就推重點領域學院我想這個條例的部分也是立法院通過的我們當時在處理的過程裡面主要的重點領域到底哪些一般來講我們看到的就是半導體跟相關的還有永續相關的還有國際金融循環經濟等等這些東西都是我們當時列進來的"},{"start":6481.898,"end":6495.996,"text":"在整個選擇學校的過程裡面因為整體大家都很清楚知道大學是教育部所主政的教育部就他所知道的各大學的既有的資源的狀況怎麼樣以後"},{"start":6497.358,"end":6525.674,"text":"去選了那相關的學校來去做重點領域培育的一個學校我們也知道說確實在整個半導體相關的部分在北部的學校好像系所是比較多的所以北部的部分有但我們也看到中南部的部分也是有包括我們看到的中山大學包括成功大學也有至於剛剛你所提到的說高雄科技大學或高雄大學的部分這部分我們"},{"start":6526.374,"end":6552.22,"text":"會後我們會再跟教育部來做討論假如說那個地方有適宜的部分我們也歡迎他能夠納進來能夠來做相關的處理這是第一個部分跟各位報告的第二個部分我們也當然希望說朝均衡臺灣的角度去推動所以對整個人才培育的部分我們會把整個中南部的部分的學校的部分我們也會做相關的考慮以上說明"},{"start":6552.72,"end":6570.287,"text":"這個我再做一點補充啦現在半導體的部分台積電在台南在高雄甚至在嘉義也都有相關的一些投資計畫了包括循環經濟高雄現在有一個循環經濟園區在推動包括智慧AI的部分也都在推動我希望隨著時代的變遷的時候要有一些做一些轉變"},{"start":6571.067,"end":6599.732,"text":"不要把所有都集中在北部而已我覺得中南部有很多新的產業的布局都持續在推動當中那國發會應該叫一部來持續來加重在南部這一塊的學校是一個重要的好不好我們是不是就停止討論了好不好那有問題我們是不是就請國發會就個別委員的想要了解的部分來跟委員做更詳盡的報告好嗎我希望國發會還是要跟各大學他們到底有哪些領域你們要了解一下"},{"start":6601.933,"end":6618.423,"text":"我是覺得這樣啦這個所謂的重點領域發展學校這個部分是教育部在主導啦所以國發會大概就是教育部開名單過來給他們這些大學的主責的部分國發會就給予補助啦但是我認為"},{"start":6619.844,"end":6647.052,"text":"就區域平衡或者是說對於各校的這些資源的挹注尤其是中南部的學校的資源的挹注我覺得國發會你們應該去跟教育部提你不能全部的資源都集中在北部因為有的學校他其實資源充沛也不差你這一點錢但有的學校其實很需要國發會很需要教育部的幫忙我覺得這個資源配置的部分可能你們還要再去做一些討論"},{"start":6648.172,"end":6650.093,"text":"23到25萬業務成本與費用的部分原列數是31萬"},{"start":6674.875,"end":6675.055,"text":"31億8,721萬9千元"},{"start":6689.544,"end":6707.262,"text":"好,我想主要就是當時提到說一樣就剛剛所談到我們在做投融資的過程裡面對於中南部的部分的建樹相對是比較少的部分我想我們會依照委員會的決議的方式我們會針對中南部的部分甚至東部的部分我們都做一些相關的加強來,楊純英委員"},{"start":6717.079,"end":6743.092,"text":"本席所提的是第24案那我還是要聽啦因為從而中我們中南部都不給我們重視啦我們的省財預算都是在北部啦我們中南部繳的預算我相信我們不會比北部少啦但是我們所運用到都沒有你們政府到底在幹什麼 對不對哪有這樣子的"},{"start":6744.731,"end":6757.281,"text":"創造就業率在中南部佔三分之二以上預算都用在不是我們的身上這相信嗎 對不對你們從來沒有去宣傳沒有去胡搗SOP流程這麼囉唆我們都靠我們自立自強你看這樣子在我們的預算法裡頭預算實行"},{"start":6772.192,"end":6783.405,"text":"這樣講得過去嗎?講不過去嗎?有沒有處理?五年度的預算去年度的預算你也用不完"},{"start":6784.602,"end":6811.292,"text":"阿你一樣這樣編從每一個項目主席都是一樣主席說的便宜行事來那個楊委員是不是讓他們說明一下好不好來請說明我們謝謝因為目前我們對整個我說過我們目前都一直朝均衡台灣的角度去推動所以對中南部的部分在最近的這段時間也新增了相當多的一些園區阿這些園區完成陸續從完成以後相當的產業就會"},{"start":6815.775,"end":6842.597,"text":"陸陸續進駐這樣的話相關的中央部的案件就會陸陸續的增加所以我們針對這個部分我們已經注意到了我們會繼續來做努力好我講一下這個問題其實已經講很久了但是國發會每次來大概都是這個樣子那我真的希望這一次是大家最後一次提這樣就是說希望在未來的時候看得到國發會在這件事情上有積極落實的想法那我一樣建議就直接凍結預算然後來要求"},{"start":6844.975,"end":6845.415,"text":"陳婷菲委員"},{"start":6864.71,"end":6874.441,"text":"那那個主席是不是才示一下好不好我們就凍結5%然後請國發會提書面報告好嗎那個主席你凍結5%是針對哪一個部分就是31億全部凍結5%"},{"start":6879.767,"end":6880.147,"text":"請照委員的提議"},{"start":6906.087,"end":6907.568,"text":"中部的只要給你喔 不要啦你就全部"},{"start":6929.599,"end":6930.46,"text":"第26案到第28案一般建築及設備的這些費用"},{"start":6952.897,"end":6978.378,"text":"這個是修繕你們的那個館舍嗎?那個美元宿舍群的部分就在長安東路是不是?那個歷史建物的部分那各位我們是不是建議這個就不要凍結也不要刪減好不好?我們可不可以了解一下主席來那個陽泉委員平行所提案是26萬請說這要做什麼?"},{"start":6982.591,"end":6993.117,"text":"二十六萬跟委員報告跟召委報告因為整個美元宿舍群是以前美國留下來的東西後來有關第一年預算嗎?"},{"start":6996.751,"end":7020.308,"text":"第1年預算嗎?分4年,這個12年是第2年請說明,您說明嘛我清楚,因為每人宿舍群我們希望說那幾個空間的部分我們希望把它改為地方創生的用地跟展示中心這個預算是第1年預算嗎?他現在就在跟您說明啊沒有沒有他在說明,我再請問是不是第1年預算?"},{"start":7021.448,"end":7041.954,"text":"第二年預算是四年預算嗎?是一次合定四年分列嗎?是不是?分年編列那111到114年編列對對對所以你們到111年一次合定四年編列預算嗎?是不是?那我請問那你去年度的執行率怎麼樣?"},{"start":7044.097,"end":7071.013,"text":"跟委員報告因為它是屬於歷史建築所以所有的整修等等的部分都要經過臺北市的文資局了解因為已經執行好了嘛現在已經4月份了你112年你不要怕嘛你112年開始編列預算那個委員你可以讓他說明完您再提問好不好因為我也想聽到他講這個美元的建築他講的不是我要提問的他講的是我想聽的啊你就讓他先講完嘛好不好不是主席"},{"start":7071.593,"end":7097.735,"text":"你是主席我知道我是說我今天發言是要聽到我問的答案不是他現在講的在說明這個計畫上下我們也想聽嘛主席你不要干涉我問的問題因為你准我發言嘛我要問的問題我是裡面的指向你告訴我指向嘛我准你發言但是我也准他回答我希望他回答完您再繼續發問我沒有不讓您發問因為他的回答好先請國防好你先講完好國防衛生不要回答了"},{"start":7105.41,"end":7105.852,"text":"現在是怎樣阿"},{"start":7108.424,"end":7136.387,"text":"啊你就先講啊你先問問你還要再回答嘛我已經忘了他在回答答非所謂所以我要他回答我的是不是今年的預算去年度預算執行多少嘛主席這才是請他先回答完您再繼續發問嘛不要一直一直發火好不好來國發會請回答程序發言不要程序發言國發會請回答人家回答你准人家問問題他要回答問題不是回答你主席的問題"},{"start":7138.936,"end":7138.976,"text":"主席"},{"start":7154.176,"end":7154.997,"text":"陳婷薇委員"},{"start":7180.398,"end":7194.582,"text":"我覺得今天大家其實對於國發會我們都希望說錢給你們 你們要花在刀口上所以你可能要比較關鍵的回答 你們講的會把問題越講越開 所以拜託國發會是不是就委員所想了解的"},{"start":7207.206,"end":7212.85,"text":"經準然後非常清楚的回答這樣可能會比較節省大家省預算的時間"},{"start":7218.589,"end":7245.428,"text":"來請國保會這個是4年的預算沒有錯但在第1年的部分因為我們要說相關的做一些規劃設計設計書圖都要送到臺北市的文化局的文資審議委員會審議光整個設計書圖的部分他就跟我們審了5、6次所以也因為這樣子所以時程就往後延了延了以後會造成說第1年的時候執行率不高的原因是這樣子目前那個"},{"start":7245.988,"end":7246.308,"text":"安村委員"},{"start":7272.121,"end":7275.492,"text":"楊全宇發言也謝謝主席今天我們講到預算的真諦"},{"start":7276.721,"end":7305.57,"text":"因為我們知道所有的老寶貝我們一定全力支持但是我們看到預算你今年所編列的這3000多萬到底是夠還是不夠因為我們發現到你的前年預度預算根本沒有辦法執行你是保留預算還是怎麼樣那你現在所要做的是做第一年的事情還是做第二年的事情我們不知道所以本席才會一針見血的問你你們是不是今年第一次編列預算"},{"start":7306.83,"end":7320.585,"text":"對不對我們要了解的是如此老寶貝大家一定全力支持但是我仍舊我贊同陳景飛委員所說的我們大家一起把人民的納稅錢好好的去把它做好呈現出來好則"},{"start":7321.966,"end":7348.425,"text":"就像那121有190幾你不去呈現人家給你拍拍手為什麼你不要呈現今天你審查的這些老寶貝要多久時間要怎麼樣你110年到114年四年度的預算到底你現在所做的這個事情你編列的這個預算是在做第幾年的事情本席要了解的是如此因為一定要達證成功所以我希望還是希望可以聽到你的答案"},{"start":7352.598,"end":7378.289,"text":"來我是不是簡略說明一下這個預算是四年計畫分年編列今年是第二年國防會剛有說明過了第一年因為在審查圖資審查他們整個這個歷史建物修改這個修復的圖資所以呢整個預算的執行是落後的那今年已經開始陸續要發包開始要做建設了所以期待這個委員能夠支持今年的3000"},{"start":7381.134,"end":7398.389,"text":"三千九百多萬三千九百三十九萬的這個計畫經費請問各位委員是不是能夠支持他們來請楊卓英委員"},{"start":7399.901,"end":7419.687,"text":"所以我還是希望聽到國發會去年度當然辛苦去審查老寶貝沒那麼簡單預算本席全力支持但是本席要請問的你這3900多萬需要做什麼你去年度的預算是保留是不是有保留嗎那你要發包是全部發包嗎還是逐項發包呢"},{"start":7423.598,"end":7423.738,"text":"請國發回答"},{"start":7449.848,"end":7469.986,"text":"跟召委報告主要我說過了就是因為去年因為文資審查臺北市文化局文資審查所以造成因為它次數非常多造成時間的延誤延誤完了以後當然那個都可以執行的所以我們在去年的部分我們是用保留的方式去進行第二個部分剛剛同仁跟我講說"},{"start":7470.966,"end":7493.446,"text":"發包是沒有問題一次發包的一次發包完成了以後我們會追趕相關的進度所以整體上來講執行上是沒有問題的所以可以整個如數而做執行總額是多少?所以你去年度預算是保留嘛然後你還是做一次性發包那總額預計發包多少?跟委員報告就是我們結票進額是8772萬那114年下半年"},{"start":7498.956,"end":7500.197,"text":"來第29案"},{"start":7532.287,"end":7533.328,"text":"尊重委員意見尊重委員意見"},{"start":7541.192,"end":7548.016,"text":"尊重委員意見尊重委員意見尊重委員意見尊重委員意見尊重委員意見尊重委員意見尊重委員意見尊重委員意見尊重委員意見"},{"start":7564.628,"end":7581.615,"text":"我跟陳昌文委員所提到的這個部分我們原則上是我們建議是著修文字以後通過把文字念一下好不好你們文字要怎麼修你們就直接念出來在"},{"start":7586.038,"end":7607.115,"text":"倒數第三行機制逗點並且每季定期的部分建議改成40還有倒數第二行後面六個字的部分記報內容應接應接入的部分你能不能把整句念完我們就會記錄了OK 完整的"},{"start":7611.345,"end":7611.425,"text":"以上,謝謝"},{"start":7642.166,"end":7642.346,"text":"投票結果"},{"start":7653.891,"end":7669.433,"text":"中央通過第40案尊重委員意見中央通過第41案尊重委員意見中央通過第42案尊重委員意見中央通過第43案尊重委員意見中央通過第44案尊重委員意見中央通過第45案"},{"start":7670.615,"end":7697.152,"text":"尊重委員意見 專通過第46案尊重委員意見 專通過第47案尊重委員意見 專通過第48案尊重委員意見 專通過第49案尊重委員意見 專通過第50案尊重委員意見 專通過第51案尊重委員意見 專通過第52案尊重委員意見 專通過第53案尊重委員意見 專通過第54案尊重委員意見 專通過第55案尊重委員意見 專通過第56案"},{"start":7700.021,"end":7723.955,"text":"建議濁修文字在倒數第三行的中後段原要求國發會恰請教育部應於一個月內就現行國家重點領域學院推動現況供需分析以及如何推動增設括號例如高雄科技大學提交書面報告至立法院經濟委員會"},{"start":7726.697,"end":7750.347,"text":"所以這個是一樣是你們要提出來嗎 對不對是你們恰請那個我們恰教育部對 恰教育部一樣是你們要提嘛 對不對沒有 因為重點領域學院是教育部對 我恰完了你們還是會有東西進來嘛 對不對不要恰完了沒有東西就好了會 我們會請教育部那個提啊對啊 會啊OK 好 那就照修正通過第57案尊重委員意見好 照案通過"},{"start":7753.267,"end":7754.408,"text":"第58案公庫撥款收入9億元賴瑞榮委員提案凍結200萬元"},{"start":7776.383,"end":7776.663,"text":"第59案到第60案"},{"start":7806.96,"end":7807.56,"text":"第59案到第62案請說明"},{"start":7820.171,"end":7845.018,"text":"市長跟委員會報告因為主要我們當時所提的相關的一些指標沒有完全達到的因素是因為那陣子剛好是疫情的因素所以造成有些在離島的一些相當的業務的部分推動就沒辦法讓如期的達到原來的效益針對這部分我們現在已經疫情結束我們會再做相關的精進的改善的方式來進行第二個部分有關於"},{"start":7846.238,"end":7863.207,"text":"負擔港設免稅商店的這件事情蔡委員他所提的部分因為那個部分要涉及到離島條例的修改的部分我們等到我們尊重立法院的最後決議離島條例有修改我們就依照新的規定來去進行謝謝"},{"start":7865.46,"end":7875.885,"text":"請問各位我們是不是就照原例的數就不予以凍結跟刪除好不好好來我們就第59案到第62案就照原例的數好接下來我們請看決議的部分第63案"},{"start":7878.473,"end":7878.793,"text":"花東基金第70及71案"},{"start":7903.807,"end":7925.155,"text":"花東基金裡面當時有提到說電動機車的補助的部分當時電動機車的補助有限定說一定要在花東地區做使用但是因為有一些申請人他買了電動機車得到補助款了以後有些機車可能就沒有放在花東地區做使用可能拿到臺北或到高雄去做使用這種狀況這個部分我們發現這個就跟花東"},{"start":7928.616,"end":7929.077,"text":"新的年度的部分"},{"start":7947.336,"end":7970.268,"text":"我們花蓮跟臺東的部分已經認為說那個地方電動機車普及率跟使用的狀況已經達到一定的成果所以他在新的年度開始他就沒有再提電動機車補助的計畫進來所以這個部分這個問題就可以解決可以有效的做解決來請問各位委員現在有陳廷輝委員提檢列7000萬張喜凱委員提凍結100萬來請各位有沒有什麼意見"},{"start":7981.167,"end":7984.689,"text":"決議第72宗宗委員意見建議修正文字你們唸一下文字要怎麼修正"},{"start":8013.84,"end":8023.112,"text":"第73案的部分在倒數第三行的部分可靠的、永續的以及現代的能源括號的目標、逗點"},{"start":8031.407,"end":8057.728,"text":"請國發會洽請經濟部協助花蓮縣發展SDGS目標7評估指標可行性方案以上等一下那個提案內容那文字花蓮縣的蓮是不是打錯了阿對是所以他原來的提案文字就打錯還是原來我們看到的是原來就打我們是不是把它修改一下好不好好然後你現在那個"},{"start":8060.847,"end":8068.179,"text":"現代的能源你可不可以再念一次好不好?好你那個內容要改目標嗎?目標不變"},{"start":8071.892,"end":8101.494,"text":"目標7確保所有人都可取得負擔的起、可靠的、永續的以及現代的能源的括號的內容請國發會洽經濟部協助花蓮的連調整研議發展SDGs目標7評估指標可行性以上"},{"start":8102.281,"end":8104.183,"text":"第74宗宗委員議案 促進轉型正義基金75-82案"},{"start":8130.178,"end":8147.478,"text":"報告委員,113年度的促轉基金的計畫裡面我們是提供7個部會來辦理轉型正義的相關工作。因為去年度大部分的部會是首次跟第一年辦理,所以有少部分的部會它的執行狀況是需要再加強的。"},{"start":8148.223,"end":8161.796,"text":"但是大部分的部會是依照進度在執行所以整體的執行率有超過7成那也希望委員能夠支持因為相關的工作有它的急迫性謝謝委員那那個執行率比較不好的部會你們現在有沒有什麼"},{"start":8162.816,"end":8164.178,"text":"目前對於執行狀況不理想的部會我們已經要求他提供改善的措施例如說具體的申請的要點讓他能夠擴大"},{"start":8182.739,"end":8189.741,"text":"或是補助的額度能夠具備誘因等等的方式去強化我們也跟部會協調希望部會能夠加強自主審查的這個角色另外我們也增加了一個出審的機制就是部會提報計畫我們在今年度開始會由我們會裡頭來邀請行政院的相關的這個單位包括組總跟人權處還有我們各部會一起來討論它的可行性同時我們也給一些具體的建議來做"},{"start":8209.767,"end":8210.528,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":8224.804,"end":8250.327,"text":"好來請各位委員促進轉型正義基金請問大家有沒有意見沒意見那我就改組決議好沒意見那就照原理而述那個賴樂隆委員的提案就改組決議好來接下來我們請看決議83案尊重委員意見好專案通過84案尊重委員意見專案通過85案尊重委員意見專案通過好那我們請宣讀協商結論"},{"start":8259.157,"end":8275.647,"text":"行政院國家發展基金第1案至14案各項投資凍結1億元提出書面報告後使得凍資第15案、16案預算照列第17案至20案服務費用凍結3000萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資第21、22案"},{"start":8279.37,"end":8286.376,"text":"會費捐助等與交流活動費凍結500萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資第23案至25案投融資業務成本凍結5%提出書面報告後使得凍資第26案至28案預算照列"},{"start":8297.219,"end":8320.833,"text":"主決議部分第29案到37案照案通過38案修正通過39案到55案照案通過56案修正通過57案照案通過離島建設基金部分第58案預算照列本案改組決議第59至62案預算照列主決議部分63案至69案均照案通過"},{"start":8321.954,"end":8347.071,"text":"花東地區永續發展基金第70、71案預算照列主決議部分72案照案通過73案修正通過74案照案通過促進轉型正義基金第75至82案預算照列77案、82案均改為主決議主決議部分83案到85案均照案通過宣讀完畢"},{"start":8348.575,"end":8372.633,"text":"好,請問各位委員那個有委員提案的部分照剛才宣讀的結論通過沒有提案的部分均照列或隨同調整請問有異議好,沒有異議的話我們通過那113年國發會主管被營業基金審查完略通過之決議文字請授權主席及議事人員整理那本日議程本日所列議程處理完略我們明天早上9點繼續開會謝謝休息"},{"start":8515.424,"end":8516.027,"text":"提供信息"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}