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的交通建設需要我們交通部來支持現在六都裡面唯一沒有捷運的就是只有臺南那臺南市政府除了進度最快的藍縣藍縣是預計115年動工那另外臺南市政府又"},{"start":35.401,"end":37.183,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":57.381,"end":61.924,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算。四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":87.39,"end":113.537,"text":"臺南市捷運綠線的綜合規劃經費來 前部長報告委員目前這條路線其實我們也很支持也覺得相當的重要因為科學園區一直要到高鐵站其實最快的路線會是這條線不是目前看到的藍線的延伸線那個等於繞一圈所以目前的可研的計畫還沒有送出來給我們審查那我們如果可研計畫的部分目前我講的是綠線不是藍年線"},{"start":116.238,"end":117.5,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":133.8,"end":139.343,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管臺灣港務三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":164.773,"end":193.868,"text":"安平去年沒有任何郵輪去年就台中跟安平零剛剛我也沒有給你看這個表在2023年臺灣只有三個國際港口沒有郵輪來就台中、蘇澳跟安平今年台中跟蘇澳有安平一如預期你們去年就預測今年安平是零"},{"start":195.509,"end":217.683,"text":"我看交通部在預測很少這麼準確的因為他們都是先按秉公說領這還真的就是領一艘都沒有來那你更慘的是你預測明年還是一樣領那這個我們怎麼受得了你要知道喔政府推郵輪旅遊我不能給你完全否定確實有成長喔部長我們的郵輪旅遊啊"},{"start":223.001,"end":251.943,"text":"去年有327艘今年預測有422艘應該可以達成吧可以達成那你明年是高成長明年預報到620艘你等於年成長了快一半快50%你明年這樣算起來的話由今年的422到明年的620你成長47%所以在這麼高速成長為什麼安平都是0臺南都是0"},{"start":253.223,"end":257.328,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":267.188,"end":293.648,"text":"包委員,其實我們每一個港口都先把它建置好,客人還沒來之前我們硬體設備要有。硬體設備有了,我們就要努力對外去爭取。所以我也拜託港公司就是我們在對外宣傳的時候,尤其是我們比較少人來的,例如說安平港跟台中港,我們要特別去做宣傳。臺南這種好吃好玩,臺南現在是國內旅遊,我們自己國內旅遊大概第一品牌。"},{"start":294.76,"end":304.363,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管臺灣港務三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管臺灣港務三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":320.107,"end":323.651,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":344.49,"end":346.451,"text":"四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":374.158,"end":375.759,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":398.925,"end":400.586,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":412.396,"end":435.092,"text":"委員報告我們特別有到新加坡還有日本介紹這個臺南的古蹟還有一些民生好玩的好吃的地方但目前船公司他們還在旅行社他們還在考量我們繼續再努力再來部長剛才有委員關心那個"},{"start":436.943,"end":464.533,"text":"因為參加過中國演習的那個船隻停告停告我們港口的事情對既然這艘船有參與中國的演習而且他演習的想定你知道嗎我們演習都有一個想像的就是一個科目啦他演習的想定科目就是類似木馬屠城就是特種部隊啊躲在民用船隻裡面就是這艘船是"},{"start":465.353,"end":473.86,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管臺灣港務三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":494.295,"end":496.657,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":516.308,"end":539.028,"text":"我們事先有沒有掌握?你事先知不知道?報告委員,他商船要靠港必然要申請,他當時是有申請,所以我們當然知道有這艘船要來,但有諮詢上面的落差,就是他曾經參加過軍演的這件事,我們的港務公司跟航港局大概也都沒有這方面的訊息。那現在我們知道了啦,這艘船因為2號就停到台中港了。"},{"start":539.548,"end":541.709,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算。四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":567.063,"end":573.849,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管臺灣港務三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管臺灣港務"},{"start":597.267,"end":599.088,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":617.236,"end":617.536,"text":"林俊憲委員發言"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":636,"blocks":[["林委員俊憲：（10時38分）謝謝主席，本席邀請交通部陳部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["林委員俊憲：跟部長分享一下臺南一個重要的交通建設需要交通部來支持，現在六都裡面唯一沒有捷運的就只有臺南。"],["陳部長世凱：是，沒錯。"],["林委員俊憲：就臺南市政府而言，除了進度最快的藍線，藍線是預計115年動工啦。"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["林委員俊憲：另外，臺南市政府又規劃了綠線，這條綠線為什麼非常重要呢？因為它是從高鐵站出發，也就是沙崙區，然後往北到南科，兩個都是高科技的重鎮，尤其現在國家最重要的研究單位幾乎都在沙崙，因為它土地面積非常廣闊，沙崙跟南科未來一定可以形成兩個最重要的高科技聚落，中間我們用捷運綠線把它串聯起來，這條路線總工程經費大概871億，現在它的期末報告已經完成，需要的就是綜合規劃的經費，這個部分是不是請部長支持臺南市捷運綠線的綜合規劃經費？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，這條路線其實我們也很支持，也覺得相當的重要，因為從科學園區一直要到高鐵站，其實最快的路線會是這條線，而不是目前看到的藍線延伸線，那個等於繞了一圈。目前可研的計畫還沒有送出來給我們審查，如果可研計畫的部分……"],["林委員俊憲：我講的是綠線，不是藍延線。"],["陳部長世凱：深綠線沒有錯，它的可行性研究如果經過我們審查通過，綜合規劃的部分也沒有問題，一定會來支持。"],["林委員俊憲：針對這個部分，綜合規劃經費也要請部長來支持。"],["陳部長世凱：當然。"],["林委員俊憲：因為它幾乎就是南科到高鐵最重要的路線，而且它經過南科附近的新市市區以及永康科技工業區，然後再連接到高鐵附近的三井outlet等等，之後再到沙崙就是高鐵特區，這個部分請一定要來支持。"],["陳部長世凱：好，我們全力支持。"],["林委員俊憲：另外，剛剛有很多委員都在關心郵輪旅遊的事情，何欣純委員在講臺中，其實全臺灣最慘的恐怕是安平，安平去年沒有任何郵輪，去年就是臺中跟安平掛零，剛剛委員沒有給你看這個表，2023年臺灣只有三個國際港口沒有郵輪來，就是臺中、蘇澳、安平；今年臺中跟蘇澳有，至於安平，一如預期，你們去年就預測今年安平是零，我看交通部的預測很少這麼準確的。"],["陳部長世凱：因為他們都是先來申請……"],["林委員俊憲：安平說零還真的就是零，一艘都沒有來，更慘的是，你預測明年一樣還是零，這樣我們怎麼受得了？你要知道，政府推郵輪旅遊我不能完全否定，確實有成長，部長，我們的郵輪旅遊去年有327艘，今年預測有422艘，應該可以達成吧？"],["陳部長世凱：可以達成沒有問題。"],["林委員俊憲：明年是高成長，明年預報到620艘，等於一年成長了快50%，這樣算起來的話，由今年的422艘到明年的620艘，成長了47%，在這麼高速成長的狀況下，為什麼安平都是零？臺南都是零？針對臺南，航港局也去做了一些碼頭的設施，我記得好像花了一億多吧！"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["林委員俊憲：那不是多花的嗎？你花了要幹嘛？又沒有半艘船來！"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，其實每一個港口我們都先把它建置好，客人還沒來之前，硬體設備要有……"],["林委員俊憲：四年耶，疫後四年預測都是零耶！"],["陳部長世凱：硬體設備有了，我們就要努力對外去爭取，所以我也拜託港務公司在對外宣傳的時候，尤其是比較少人來的，例如說安平港跟臺中港，我們要特別去做宣傳。"],["林委員俊憲：臺南好吃又好玩，臺南現在大概是國內旅遊第一品牌啦！我相信以臺南的特色來吸引國際觀光客，絕對是讓大家認識更真實、更不一樣的臺灣，難道你們推廣郵輪時都把安平跳過去嗎？"],["李董事長賢義：跟委員報告一下，其實臺南的安平我們也有努力啦，因為在去年的時候，名勝世界有來……"],["林委員俊憲：沒有來，你寫的是零耶，哪有來？"],["李董事長賢義：就是有來高雄，我們也覺得……"],["林委員俊憲：你把高雄當做安平？你現在是在跟我說什麼？"],["李董事長賢義：好吃好玩的安平也有，所以我那天特別去找……"],["林委員俊憲：船停在高雄，結果你算臺南的喔！"],["李董事長賢義：我們認為高雄有，所以希望能夠拉到臺南，我們的王總經理也有跟名勝世界談過了。"],["陳部長世凱：四顆蛋在這裡，四年都是零耶！我沒有否定你們推動郵輪的成長績效，我有看到，我剛剛也跟你說確實有成長，但是你要讓更多國際旅客在臺灣更多不同的地方，然後一起來推動觀光旅遊，對不對？部長，你再看一下，其實航港局這幾年都出國去考察郵輪，包括馬來西亞、新加坡、日本、美國，這幾年都是去郵輪做得非常好的國家的港口去考察，確實帶回來的我們也看到一些成長，但是你再回去看一下臺中，臺中今年預測會有兩艘，但1到10月還是零，可能是11月跟12月，我不曉得……"],["陳部長世凱：12月有一艘。"],["林委員俊憲：一個月來一艘。如果臺中明年兩艘的話，明年大概只有臺南還是持續掛零。"],["李董事長賢義：我們有特別到新加坡還有日本，介紹臺南的古蹟、一些名勝，還有好玩的、好吃的地方，目前船公司、旅行社還在考量，我們繼續努力。"],["林委員俊憲：部長，剛剛是不是有委員關心，有參加過中國演習的船隻停靠我們港口的事情？"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["林委員俊憲：既然這艘船有參與中國的演習，而且他演習的想定……你知道嗎？演習都有一個想像的科目，他演習的想定科目就是類似木馬屠城，也就是特種部隊躲在民用船隻裡面，就是這艘船。演練的就是特種部隊，躲在這樣的民用商船裡面，然後突襲進入，比如進入對手的港口實施火力打擊。中國做這樣的演習，對象一定是誰？"],["陳部長世凱：臺灣。"],["林委員俊憲：一定是臺灣，不然這艘船要開去哪裡，對不對？既然就是用這艘船演習，它裡面一定經過改造，對不對？到時候萬一他真的要動手，像這艘船一定優先徵召，對不對？因為他已經在這艘船上演練過了，這艘船的內裝可能有更動過，而且也實際參與這樣的軍事演習，像這種船到臺灣，你們事先有沒有掌握？你事先知不知道？"],["陳部長世凱：商船要靠港必然要申請，它當時是有申請，所以我們當然知道有這艘船要來。但我們資訊上的落差就是它曾經參加過軍演這件事，港務公司跟航港局都沒有這方面的訊息。"],["林委員俊憲：現在我們知道了，因為這艘船2號就停到臺中港，停到現在，我們是不是應該要……"],["陳部長世凱：已經離港了，在7號離港。"],["林委員俊憲：那段期間你們知不知道這艘船參與過這件事情？等它離開了才知道嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：整個過程，其實我們不知道。"],["林委員俊憲：為什麼會造成這樣的落差呢？國防部知不知道？有沒有掌握？"],["陳部長世凱：或許國防單位或國安單位有掌握，但是過去他們都沒有……"],["林委員俊憲：假如有掌握，為什麼沒有通報交通部呢？"],["陳部長世凱：他們過去都沒有提供這樣國安方面的訊息給我們。"],["林委員俊憲：你應該去了解，不然這樣部會間哪有聯繫？"],["陳部長世凱：我們會在一週之內跟國安單位開會議，討論一下未來如果有類似這樣的商船，應該要怎麼處置或者怎麼樣把訊息傳給我們。"],["林委員俊憲：不要處置。商港法第五十八條規定得很清楚，我們國家本來就有這樣的權力，任何國家都會訂這樣的規定。對於可疑，所謂的可疑當然有很多種樣態，本來我們就應該有權力檢查而且登船檢查，我們的法律寫得很清楚！"],["陳部長世凱：委員講的比較關鍵，就是「可疑」。"],["林委員俊憲：商港法第五十八條……"],["陳部長世凱：您在說的「可疑」，必須要國安單位提供給我們，我們才會知道可疑，不然對我們來說，交通部所收到的訊息是以商船的方式來申請，這個部分我們會跟國安單位要……"],["林委員俊憲：我知道，我不管你這樣是不是在推卸責任，但至少就是你們相關部會之間……"],["陳部長世凱：當然，我們一個禮拜之內會跟他們開會討論，看未來這樣的訊息怎麼提供給我們。"],["林委員俊憲：再把你了解的部分也讓本席知道，好嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["林委員俊憲：謝謝部長、謝謝主席。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林俊憲委員發言。","我們剛剛有宣告，在林俊憲委員質詢後休息10分鐘。現在休息。","休息（10時49分）","繼續開會（10時59分）"],["主席：現在繼續開會。","接下來邀請黃健豪委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":334,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-14","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","李昆澤","林國成","何欣純","魯明哲","林俊憲","黃健豪","徐富癸","邱若華","蔡其昌","許智傑","羅廷瑋","王義川","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","張啓楷","游顥","廖先翔","蔡易餘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","葉元之","鍾佳濱"],"page_start":257,"meetingDate":["2024-12-09"],"gazette_id":"1140402","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140402_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部航港局單位預算；二、審查114年度中央政府總預\n算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管航港建設基金非營業預算；三、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於交通部主管臺灣港務股份有限公司營業預算；四、審查\n114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於交通部主管國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司營\n業預算；五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業\n基金─臺鐵局撥入資產及債務管理基金分預算【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1140402_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}