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11:57:04","會議時間":"2024-12-09T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部航港局單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管航港建設基金非營業預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於交通部主管臺灣港務股份有限公司營業預算。四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於交通部主管國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司營業預算。五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業基金-臺鐵局撥入資產及債務管理基金分預算。【僅進行詢答；第一案委員預算提案於12月16日中午12時前截止收件；第二案至第五案委員預算提案於12月19日中午12時前截止收件】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":2.52846875,"end":3.5072187500000003,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.99659375,"end":4.890968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":11.961593750000002,"end":13.04159375,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":13.075343750000002,"end":19.875968750000002,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.875968750000002,"end":20.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":20.06159375,"end":27.891593750000002,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.02221875,"end":30.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.59159375,"end":36.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":30.60846875,"end":31.48596875,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":33.37596875,"end":50.166593750000004,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.01159375,"end":43.079093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.11284375,"end":43.619093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.28909375,"end":50.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.14534375,"end":56.595968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":54.95909375,"end":84.03471875000001,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.83409375000001,"end":72.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.40784375,"end":72.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.03471875000001,"end":99.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":95.34096875,"end":96.35346875,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":98.31096875,"end":107.42346875000001,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":108.60471875,"end":117.21096875,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.47346875000001,"end":113.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.86909375,"end":120.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":119.20221875000001,"end":119.89409375000001,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":120.61971875,"end":121.61534375000001,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.56471875000001,"end":127.28534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":127.15034375,"end":145.29096875000002,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.91971875000002,"end":146.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":146.33721875,"end":153.05346875,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.98159375,"end":154.53846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.77471875,"end":166.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":166.97534375,"end":212.74034375000002,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.26471875000001,"end":205.61909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.79096875000002,"end":222.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":219.87846875000002,"end":220.97534375,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":222.22409375,"end":222.27471875,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.27471875,"end":222.91596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":222.29159375,"end":222.46034375000002,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":222.91596875000002,"end":223.25346875000002,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.93284375000002,"end":223.30409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":223.30409375000002,"end":228.72096875000003,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.70846875,"end":228.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.72096875000003,"end":229.66596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":229.66596875000002,"end":237.69846875000002,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.37346875000003,"end":258.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":257.94846875,"end":323.23784375,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":323.65971875,"end":324.28409375,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":324.43596875000003,"end":337.96971875,"speaker_score":0.859},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.34534375000004,"end":349.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":347.84159375,"end":365.6278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當然你都已經執行一段時間了嘛先不講髒話嘛那之前的事辦目前狀況如何我有請同仁們再收集應該還沒收集 市長可以回應嗎還沒收集完畢他們都已經事辦有一段時間了我記得我擔任議員的時候臺中市就已經有事辦幾處了所以這些數據市長你到底有沒有掌握"},{"start":238.79,"end":239.831,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":259.131,"end":264.315,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管臺灣港務二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":280.266,"end":300.015,"text":"而不是沒有兩段式的左轉就連你們執政黨部分區的名單曾經是交通警察的實名警也說沒有交錯就沒有車禍是交通安全不變的定律越多路線的交叉重疊就會產生越多的車禍轉一個彎要分兩次就會容易與其他的車輛路線重疊左轉就靠左"},{"start":301.235,"end":302.755,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":323.66,"end":323.94,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":339.168,"end":340.99,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算。四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算。"},{"start":360.407,"end":384.686,"text":"您支不支持他們能夠傾向於跟彰化學習可不可以跟我回答一下我想我們會給他們足夠的裁量權讓各個地方自己去決定那我們也會收攏大家的意見包含學者專家的意見包含地方政府的意見我們最近積極來做這方面的討論如果我們在指引方面有需要去做修正的話我們後續再來做修正部長你認為機車走內車道左轉到底是不是安全報告委員"},{"start":385.146,"end":406.757,"text":"像臺中你也在臺中我在臺中時常在騎摩托車在騎機車在騎的過程當中我發現內車道很多是進行機車我根本沒有辦法直接轉所以這個部分要先解決掉進行機車也要檢討所謂的取消兩段式左轉我們是一併納入一起來做一個探討的所以我問你嘛你個人的態度您還是不願意說一個清楚啊"},{"start":407.297,"end":427.831,"text":"這個部分其實現在地方就可以自己去做決定,不一定要中央有做決定,他們才能做決定。您剛剛也提到很多縣市都已經在做試辦了,如果他們試辦的成效好,他們可以全市來開放,這個都沒有問題的。今天早午已經站起來,時間有限了,部長、市長,機車取消兩正式左轉,多久可以完成評估報告?"},{"start":429.052,"end":439.782,"text":"剛剛所說的一個相關數據的一個彙整公佈並且你們內部來評估是不是有一個態度一個質疑然後一個公文下去給各個六都還有各縣市這部分多久可以完成報告"},{"start":440.455,"end":464.949,"text":"跟委員報告一下這個就是說機車兩段式走轉基本上在交通法規裡面他不是一個通案強制性的規定機車最起碼是外面兩個車道是都可以走的那剛剛委員有提到包括臺南市後藏化線他是把以往這個機車可以行駛兩車道部分他把他強制對啦但是不是說我都是三車道以上啦你就直接回應我召委站起來了你數據多久能夠彙整有一個評估報告"},{"start":465.95,"end":469.531,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":490.155,"end":492.438,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:48:42+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:48:44.917000+08:00","text":"謝謝召委。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:48:44.917000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:48:46.458000+08:00","text":"有請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-09T11:48:46.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:48:54.002000+08:00","text":"請陳部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:48:54.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:48:54.223000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:48:54.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:48:54.783000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:48:55.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:49:00.966000+08:00","text":"部長，最近有一則新聞，標題是「百日挑戰好感度得第一」，我先跟你說聲恭喜。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:49:01.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:49:02.307000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:49:02.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:49:11.112000+08:00","text":"部長，有感第一，那全民都需要你，請問一下，您會交通部長做好做滿嗎？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:49:11.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:49:11.933000+08:00","text":"做好做滿是什麼？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:49:11.933000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:49:14.599625+08:00","text":"交通部長沒有任期，政務官沒有任期，隨時可以走。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:49:14.599625+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:49:17.266250+08:00","text":"你能不能期許自己可以做滿4年？","quality":0.077},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:49:17.266250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:49:19.932875+08:00","text":"還是你會有個人的生涯規劃，做到一半就會離開呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:49:19.932875+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:49:22.599500+08:00","text":"我儘量努力做。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:49:22.599500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:49:25.266125+08:00","text":"儘量努力做？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:49:25.266125+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:49:27.932750+08:00","text":"儘量努力。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:49:27.932750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:49:30.599375+08:00","text":"可以跟大家承諾你一定全力以赴，做完這一任期嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:49:30.599375+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:49:33.266000+08:00","text":"跟著賴清德總統做完這一任期？","quality":0.077},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:49:33.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:49:36.849000+08:00","text":"政務官的任期不是由政務官自己決定的，是由長官決定的。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:49:38.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:49:53.644000+08:00","text":"百日挑戰好感第一，就是因為我們找不到人來接任，找到了你，那你也百日挑戰好感第一，那我相信你一定有被重用的必要性，我們也希望你在交通部能夠繼續發揮，交通部需要你，你也不要離開交通部。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:49:53.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:49:54.205000+08:00","text":"我努力做。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:49:55.706000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:50:02.853000+08:00","text":"那另外我想跟你請問一下，因為你擔任過議員，臺中市的一些民意基礎心聲，我希望你能夠帶到交通部。好。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:50:03.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:50:09.059000+08:00","text":"我想請問，對於機車待轉這件事情，您的態度是什麼？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:50:09.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:50:17.087000+08:00","text":"報告委員，機車待轉有相當多民眾在反映，有些民眾覺得不好，有些民眾覺得感覺比較安全。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:50:17.087000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:50:18.087000+08:00","text":"對，那你個人呢？","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:50:17.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:50:19.891000+08:00","text":"其實比較牽涉到的是路權的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:50:20.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:50:24.698000+08:00","text":"你個人覺得，你是支持機車要待轉，還是取消機車待轉，還是彈性機車待轉？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:50:24.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:50:24.918000+08:00","text":"所謂的彈性就是不強制。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:50:24.918000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:50:28.849077+08:00","text":"報告委員，首要是交通安全，交通安全最重要。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:50:28.849077+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:50:32.780154+08:00","text":"當然我們都知道交通安全。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:50:32.780154+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:50:36.711231+08:00","text":"好，部長，那我問你一下，機車兩段式左轉推動多久了？","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:50:36.711231+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:50:40.642308+08:00","text":"這個政策你知道嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:50:40.642308+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:50:44.573385+08:00","text":"我是不是請司長來回答？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:50:44.573385+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:50:48.504462+08:00","text":"這個政策他比較清楚。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:50:48.504462+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:50:52.435538+08:00","text":"好，司長請說。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:50:52.435538+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:50:56.366615+08:00","text":"我們速度快一點，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林司長福山","start":"2024-12-09T11:50:56.366615+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:51:00.297692+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我印象中應該是民國八十幾年從臺北市開始推動。","quality":0.038},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:51:00.297692+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:51:04.228769+08:00","text":"1985年臺北市楊市長開始推動，共計19處機慢車的專用道有機車待轉區，交通部在2000年的時候也提出機車交通管理的政策白皮書，你應該也知道，彰化縣政府最近取消了兩段式左轉，你知道嗎？","quality":0.027},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:51:04.228769+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:51:08.159846+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:51:08.159846+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:51:12.090923+08:00","text":"本席想問第一個問題，你知道目前有哪幾個縣市有取消或者是至少試行取消兩段式左轉嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:51:12.090923+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:51:16.022000+08:00","text":"彰化是最近，針對兩車道的部分，將兩段式左轉取消，那其他縣市，我所知道，應該滿多縣市有做過試辦，包含臺中市也應該有做過。","quality":0.019},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:51:16.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:51:48.590000+08:00","text":"來，我提一個具體的數據，臺北市78處、新北63處取消，高雄、臺中針對特定區域放寬兩段式左轉的規定，臺南市8月全面取消市區的單向兩車道機車兩段式左轉，桃園去年底試辦24處。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:51:48.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:52:05.764000+08:00","text":"六都其實已經有部分一半取消或全部取消，六都之外，新竹市針對63處取消兩段式的左轉，新竹縣是9個路口，苗栗縣一年內也有3個路口取消兩段式的左轉。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:52:05.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:52:14.450000+08:00","text":"請教部長第一個問題，你是否有盤點本席上述的這些問題，改變兩段式左轉的政策以後，交通事故是上升還是下降？","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:52:14.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:52:21.756000+08:00","text":"我這陣子其實有請我們部內同仁來蒐集這方面的訊息，因為這個要科學的數據，再做後面的討論才……","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:52:22.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:52:27.420000+08:00","text":"對，但是他們都已經執行一段時間了，先不講彰化，之前的試辦，目前狀況如何？","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:52:27.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:52:29.562000+08:00","text":"我有請同仁們在蒐集相關訊息，應該還沒有蒐集完畢。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:52:30.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:52:31.003000+08:00","text":"司長，可以回應嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:52:31.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:52:39.510000+08:00","text":"他們都已經試辦一段時間，我記得我擔任議員的時候，臺中市就已經有試辦幾處了，所以這些數據司長你到底有沒有掌握？","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"林司長福山","start":"2024-12-09T11:52:39.510000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:52:53.762000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告一下，目前是在跟地方政府瞭解當中。","quality":0.15},{"speaker":"林司長福山","start":"2024-12-09T11:52:53.762000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:53:08.014000+08:00","text":"另外一個部分，我也藉這個機會跟委員報告一下，因為每一個路段或是每一個路口，車道相關配置給機車行駛要不要搭配兩段式左轉的部分，中間牽涉到這個路段交通車流的變化。","quality":0.068},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:53:08.014000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:53:22.266000+08:00","text":"如果這些試辦的都有問題，而且肇事責任越來越高的話，不會有其他的縣市又跟進。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:53:22.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:53:37.293000+08:00","text":"因為連彰化都跟進，所以我們可以發現廢除兩段式左轉是一個趨勢，有網友做了一張圖，很清楚地說明了一個問題，重點是不在內車道左轉，而不是沒有兩段式左轉，就連列在你們執政黨不分區立委名單的石明謹，他曾經是交通警察，他也說沒有交錯就沒有車禍，這是交通安全不變的定律，越多路線的交叉重疊，就會產生越多的車禍。","quality":0.493},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:53:37.293000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:53:44.994889+08:00","text":"轉一個彎要分兩次就會容易與其他車輛的路線重疊，左轉就靠左，右轉就靠右，是正常的一個邏輯，所以常常有機車族與其他的汽車族群產生這樣子的一個緊張關係，很多人覺得內車道應該是汽車道，外車道才是機車道，所以發生衝突。","quality":0.271},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:53:44.994889+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:53:52.696778+08:00","text":"我們要講的是，當然就像部長你說的，有很多人有不同的意見，可是就彰化來說，他們叫做什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:53:52.696778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:54:00.398667+08:00","text":"彈性，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:54:00.398667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:54:08.100556+08:00","text":"那這個彈性有多彈性？","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:54:08.100556+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:54:15.802444+08:00","text":"這個彈性能不能擴大辦理？","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:54:15.802444+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:54:23.504333+08:00","text":"這個彈性能不能由交通部來要求六都更加擴大？","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:54:23.504333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:54:31.206222+08:00","text":"這個部分，我希望部長您有一個態度，今天可以讓我知道一下。","quality":0.04},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:54:31.206222+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:54:38.908111+08:00","text":"報告委員，其實地方政府都有自己可以開放的裁量權，這個部分都有，所以各個地方政府都可以自己做，包含現在您所看到的，您所提到的狀況，他們自己可以做。","quality":0.062},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:54:38.908111+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:54:46.610000+08:00","text":"當然我知道地方政府可以做，但是您是交通部長，我現在就是要跟您討論嘛，我希望交通部要來做一個實際的探討，公布一個數據，或者是一個指引，或者是您的態度能夠讓各縣市知道嘛，您支不支持他們傾向於跟彰化學習？","quality":0.198},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:54:46.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:54:47.331000+08:00","text":"可不可以跟我回答一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:54:47.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:55:02.282000+08:00","text":"我想我們會給他們足夠的裁量權，讓各個地方自己去決定，我們也會收攏大家的意見，包含學者專家的意見，包含地方政府的意見，我們最近積極來做這方面的討論，如果我們在指引方面有需要去做修正的話，我們後續再來做修正。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:55:02.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:55:05.645000+08:00","text":"部長，你認為機車走內車道左轉到底是不是安全？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:55:06.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:55:16.911000+08:00","text":"報告委員，像臺中，你也在臺中，我在臺中時常騎摩托車，在騎的過程當中，我發現內車道很多是禁行機車，我根本沒有辦法直接轉。對啊。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:55:16.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:55:18.192000+08:00","text":"對，所以這個部分要先解決。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:55:18.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:55:24.375000+08:00","text":"禁行機車也要檢討，所謂的取消兩段式左轉，我們是一併納入，一起來做一個探討。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:55:24.375000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:55:25.375000+08:00","text":"是，沒有錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:55:24.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:55:28.737000+08:00","text":"所以我問你你個人的態度，你還是不願意說清楚啊。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:55:29.297000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:55:35.582000+08:00","text":"這個部分其實現在地方就可以自己去決定，不一定要中央有決定，他們才能決定。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:55:35.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:55:42.026000+08:00","text":"您剛剛也提到，很多縣市都已經在做試辦了，如果他們試辦的成效好，他們可以全市來開放，這個是沒有問題的。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:55:43.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:55:44.728000+08:00","text":"召委已經站起來了，時間有限。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:55:45.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:55:49.811000+08:00","text":"部長、司長，機車取消兩段式左轉，多久可以完成評估報告？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:55:51.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:56:01.762000+08:00","text":"剛剛所說的相關數據的彙整、公布，並且由你們內部拿來評估，是不是有一個態度、一個指引，然後一個公文下去給六都及各縣市，這個部分多久可以完成報告？","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"林司長福山","start":"2024-12-09T11:56:02.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:56:08.959000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告一下，機車兩段式左轉，基本上，在交通法規裡面，它不是一個通案強制性的規定。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"林司長福山","start":"2024-12-09T11:56:10.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:56:19.325000+08:00","text":"機車最起碼是外面兩個車道都可以走，那剛剛委員有提到，包括臺南市或彰化縣，是把以往機車可以行駛兩車道的部分，強制內側車道……","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:56:20.105000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T11:56:26.929000+08:00","text":"對，但是不是所有都是三車道以上，你就直接回應我，召委站起來了，你數據多久能夠彙整，有一個評估報告？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"林司長福山","start":"2024-12-09T11:56:27.429000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:56:41.143286+08:00","text":"報告委員，部裡面下禮拜會找路權團體及專家學者，大家共同來討論現行交通法規中有關於機車行駛的路權的部分。","quality":0.021},{"speaker":"林司長福山","start":"2024-12-09T11:56:41.443286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:56:52.014714+08:00","text":"其他現行已經開放的部分，一個月內我們請各地方政府提供開放前跟開放後的相關數據。","quality":0.054},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:56:52.314714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:57:00.314714+08:00","text":"一個月內提供資料給你，那你多久可以完成你自己的內部評估報告？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林司長福山","start":"2024-12-09T11:57:00.614714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:57:04.043286+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，評估的這個部分……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:57:04.343286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:57:06.057571+08:00","text":"兩個月，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林司長福山","start":"2024-12-09T11:57:06.357571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:57:16.357571+08:00","text":"我們在兩個月內跟相關團體來溝通看看，討論大家可以聚焦，可以進一步檢討的方式。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-12-09T11:57:16.657571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:57:19.229000+08:00","text":"兩個月啦，我會再追喔。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T11:57:19.529000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:57:20.957571+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-09T11:57:21.257571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:57:23.543286+08:00","text":"好，謝謝羅廷瑋委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-09T11:57:23.843286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T11:57:27.271857+08:00","text":"接下來邀請王義川委員發言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":977,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（11時48分）謝謝召委。有請部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長好。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長，最近有一則新聞，標題是「百日挑戰好感度得第一」，我先跟你說聲恭喜。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長，有感第一，那全民都需要你，請問一下，您會交通部長做好做滿嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：做好做滿是什麼？交通部長沒有任期，政務官沒有任期，隨時可以走。"],["羅委員廷瑋：你能不能期許自己可以做滿4年？還是你會有個人的生涯規劃，做到一半就會離開呢？"],["陳部長世凱：我儘量努力做。"],["羅委員廷瑋：儘量努力做？"],["陳部長世凱：儘量努力。"],["羅委員廷瑋：可以跟大家承諾你一定全力以赴，做完這一任期嗎？跟著賴清德總統做完這一任期？"],["陳部長世凱：政務官的任期不是由政務官自己決定的，是由長官決定的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：百日挑戰好感第一，就是因為我們找不到人來接任，找到了你，那你也百日挑戰好感第一，那我相信你一定有被重用的必要性，我們也希望你在交通部能夠繼續發揮，交通部需要你，你也不要離開交通部。"],["陳部長世凱：我努力做。"],["羅委員廷瑋：那另外我想跟你請問一下，因為你擔任過議員，臺中市的一些民意基礎心聲，我希望你能夠帶到交通部。"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想請問，對於機車待轉這件事情，您的態度是什麼？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，機車待轉有相當多民眾在反映，有些民眾覺得不好，有些民眾覺得感覺比較安全。"],["羅委員廷瑋：對，那你個人呢？"],["陳部長世凱：其實比較牽涉到的是路權的問題。"],["羅委員廷瑋：你個人覺得，你是支持機車要待轉，還是取消機車待轉，還是彈性機車待轉？所謂的彈性就是不強制。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，首要是交通安全，交通安全最重要。"],["羅委員廷瑋：當然我們都知道交通安全。","好，部長，那我問你一下，機車兩段式左轉推動多久了？這個政策你知道嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：我是不是請司長來回答？這個政策他比較清楚。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，司長請說。我們速度快一點，好不好？"],["林司長福山：跟委員報告，我印象中應該是民國八十幾年從臺北市開始推動。"],["羅委員廷瑋：1985年臺北市楊市長開始推動，共計19處機慢車的專用道有機車待轉區，交通部在2000年的時候也提出機車交通管理的政策白皮書，你應該也知道，彰化縣政府最近取消了兩段式左轉，你知道嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：對，沒錯。"],["羅委員廷瑋：本席想問第一個問題，你知道目前有哪幾個縣市有取消或者是至少試行取消兩段式左轉嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：彰化是最近，針對兩車道的部分，將兩段式左轉取消，那其他縣市，我所知道，應該滿多縣市有做過試辦，包含臺中市也應該有做過。"],["羅委員廷瑋：來，我提一個具體的數據，臺北市78處、新北63處取消，高雄、臺中針對特定區域放寬兩段式左轉的規定，臺南市8月全面取消市區的單向兩車道機車兩段式左轉，桃園去年底試辦24處。六都其實已經有部分一半取消或全部取消，六都之外，新竹市針對63處取消兩段式的左轉，新竹縣是9個路口，苗栗縣一年內也有3個路口取消兩段式的左轉。請教部長第一個問題，你是否有盤點本席上述的這些問題，改變兩段式左轉的政策以後，交通事故是上升還是下降？"],["陳部長世凱：我這陣子其實有請我們部內同仁來蒐集這方面的訊息，因為這個要科學的數據，再做後面的討論才……"],["羅委員廷瑋：對，但是他們都已經執行一段時間了，先不講彰化，之前的試辦，目前狀況如何？"],["陳部長世凱：我有請同仁們在蒐集相關訊息，應該還沒有蒐集完畢。"],["羅委員廷瑋：司長，可以回應嗎？他們都已經試辦一段時間，我記得我擔任議員的時候，臺中市就已經有試辦幾處了，所以這些數據司長你到底有沒有掌握？"],["林司長福山：跟委員報告一下，目前是在跟地方政府瞭解當中。另外一個部分，我也藉這個機會跟委員報告一下，因為每一個路段或是每一個路口，車道相關配置給機車行駛要不要搭配兩段式左轉的部分，中間牽涉到這個路段交通車流的變化。"],["羅委員廷瑋：如果這些試辦的都有問題，而且肇事責任越來越高的話，不會有其他的縣市又跟進。因為連彰化都跟進，所以我們可以發現廢除兩段式左轉是一個趨勢，有網友做了一張圖，很清楚地說明了一個問題，重點是不在內車道左轉，而不是沒有兩段式左轉，就連列在你們執政黨不分區立委名單的石明謹，他曾經是交通警察，他也說沒有交錯就沒有車禍，這是交通安全不變的定律，越多路線的交叉重疊，就會產生越多的車禍。轉一個彎要分兩次就會容易與其他車輛的路線重疊，左轉就靠左，右轉就靠右，是正常的一個邏輯，所以常常有機車族與其他的汽車族群產生這樣子的一個緊張關係，很多人覺得內車道應該是汽車道，外車道才是機車道，所以發生衝突。我們要講的是，當然就像部長你說的，有很多人有不同的意見，可是就彰化來說，他們叫做什麼？彈性，對不對？那這個彈性有多彈性？這個彈性能不能擴大辦理？這個彈性能不能由交通部來要求六都更加擴大？這個部分，我希望部長您有一個態度，今天可以讓我知道一下。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，其實地方政府都有自己可以開放的裁量權，這個部分都有，所以各個地方政府都可以自己做，包含現在您所看到的，您所提到的狀況，他們自己可以做。"],["羅委員廷瑋：當然我知道地方政府可以做，但是您是交通部長，我現在就是要跟您討論嘛，我希望交通部要來做一個實際的探討，公布一個數據，或者是一個指引，或者是您的態度能夠讓各縣市知道嘛，您支不支持他們傾向於跟彰化學習？可不可以跟我回答一下？"],["陳部長世凱：我想我們會給他們足夠的裁量權，讓各個地方自己去決定，我們也會收攏大家的意見，包含學者專家的意見，包含地方政府的意見，我們最近積極來做這方面的討論，如果我們在指引方面有需要去做修正的話，我們後續再來做修正。"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長，你認為機車走內車道左轉到底是不是安全？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，像臺中，你也在臺中，我在臺中時常騎摩托車，在騎的過程當中，我發現內車道很多是禁行機車，我根本沒有辦法直接轉。"],["羅委員廷瑋：對啊。"],["陳部長世凱：對，所以這個部分要先解決。"],["羅委員廷瑋：禁行機車也要檢討，所謂的取消兩段式左轉，我們是一併納入，一起來做一個探討。"],["陳部長世凱：是，沒有錯。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以我問你你個人的態度，你還是不願意說清楚啊。"],["陳部長世凱：這個部分其實現在地方就可以自己去決定，不一定要中央有決定，他們才能決定。您剛剛也提到，很多縣市都已經在做試辦了，如果他們試辦的成效好，他們可以全市來開放，這個是沒有問題的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：召委已經站起來了，時間有限。部長、司長，機車取消兩段式左轉，多久可以完成評估報告？剛剛所說的相關數據的彙整、公布，並且由你們內部拿來評估，是不是有一個態度、一個指引，然後一個公文下去給六都及各縣市，這個部分多久可以完成報告？"],["林司長福山：跟委員報告一下，機車兩段式左轉，基本上，在交通法規裡面，它不是一個通案強制性的規定。機車最起碼是外面兩個車道都可以走，那剛剛委員有提到，包括臺南市或彰化縣，是把以往機車可以行駛兩車道的部分，強制內側車道……"],["羅委員廷瑋：對，但是不是所有都是三車道以上，你就直接回應我，召委站起來了，你數據多久能夠彙整，有一個評估報告？"],["林司長福山：報告委員，部裡面下禮拜會找路權團體及專家學者，大家共同來討論現行交通法規中有關於機車行駛的路權的部分。其他現行已經開放的部分，一個月內我們請各地方政府提供開放前跟開放後的相關數據。"],["羅委員廷瑋：一個月內提供資料給你，那你多久可以完成你自己的內部評估報告？"],["林司長福山：跟委員報告，評估的這個部分……"],["羅委員廷瑋：兩個月，好不好？"],["林司長福山：我們在兩個月內跟相關團體來溝通看看，討論大家可以聚焦，可以進一步檢討的方式。"],["羅委員廷瑋：兩個月啦，我會再追喔。"],["陳部長世凱：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝羅廷瑋委員。","接下來邀請王義川委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":334,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-14","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","李昆澤","林國成","何欣純","魯明哲","林俊憲","黃健豪","徐富癸","邱若華","蔡其昌","許智傑","羅廷瑋","王義川","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","張啓楷","游顥","廖先翔","蔡易餘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","葉元之","鍾佳濱"],"page_start":257,"meetingDate":["2024-12-09"],"gazette_id":"1140402","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140402_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部航港局單位預算；二、審查114年度中央政府總預\n算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管航港建設基金非營業預算；三、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於交通部主管臺灣港務股份有限公司營業預算；四、審查\n114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於交通部主管國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司營\n業預算；五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業\n基金─臺鐵局撥入資產及債務管理基金分預算【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1140402_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}