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這不禁讓我懷疑是說你是不是連跟院長溝通的機會都沒有你就接下這個任務我想我們不管是部會那麼重要的一個職務或者是小至一般一般私人公司我今天我要聘請一個單位主管的時候總經理沒有跟這個單位主管溝通是說我到底要做什麼樣的事情"},{"start":257.455,"end":280.662,"text":"然後你就接了 行政院有來跟我邀請那我也告知我會有的考慮那這個考慮經過我考慮之後我決定要接受這份任務部長看起來有些難言之隱齁那部長再來請教一下就業安定基金之前很多委員也都有關心阿本期上個禮拜也有關心過對不對 是那現在我們要要求的是說因為在這一次其實很離譜的狀況是什麼"},{"start":282.603,"end":309.336,"text":"是這個演唱會等等部分剛剛我們有這個會計主管也講說這演唱會還是到最後牽合到我們前任部長有牽合過才來辦是 對不對所以換言之外界會質疑是說有所謂自肥就是說你真的要用人民的納稅錢開演唱會你自己找錢嘛你怎麼會用就業安定基金裡面然後巧立明目變成是政令宣導然後來辦演唱會還自己牽合自己來演"},{"start":310.556,"end":333.676,"text":"這就莫名其妙了可是本期現在要講另外一個部分就上禮拜我也要求是說那應該要比照其他部會及其他部會有相關的基金但是像文化部基金用於政府採購案的案件也都會公告在相關的官網上面但我們在就業安定基金裡面其實用於採購的部分我們是沒有公告我們的相關官網的"},{"start":334.977,"end":356.533,"text":"那這一點是不是應該要改進?我之前有回覆其他委員我自己我們因為我們現在正在檢討救安定基金整體的管理的機制包括說委員的我自己希望這個管理的機制第一個要怎麼讓他更專業包括外部委員的角色也包括怎麼讓他朝向一個更明確監理化的角度去規劃那當然剛才說"},{"start":359.372,"end":381.881,"text":"關於一些資訊揭露的部分我也覺得可以做得更多政府採購在一般的本預算裡面為什麼大家會覺得是說你是巧立明目或是說走後門說走巧門就是政府採購我們只要超過10萬元以上我們就要公開電子採購甚至還有這個比較大額的都會有在相關的網站上可以找到"},{"start":382.481,"end":398.569,"text":"但是就業安定基金裡面不管剛剛鄭天才委員秀出來的買咖啡豆的、情保全的、清潔的、辦演唱會的沒有辦法在電子採購官網上找到我們也沒有辦法看到說到底這些案件是不是跟計畫的名稱一樣"},{"start":400.37,"end":426.319,"text":"所以這就逃避監督啊所以能不能承諾未來基金的部分用於採購也一定要公開在網站上面現在其實這個相關的採購在網路上面其實就有看得到了你沒有在我們的這個相關網站啊官方網站沒有啊在公工程的網站其實都可以查得到的但是是不是比照文化部等相關部會當基金歷年用於政府採購案件一併公告在相關勞動勞發署的官方網站"},{"start":428.857,"end":437.915,"text":"就是說我們當然可以把它做一個整理其實放在勞發署網站也可以但是我說在工程會的網站上面這些只要是公開招標的標案都可以找得到的"},{"start":438.7,"end":465.56,"text":"公開標案但是過去到現在大家就認為是說這就是有三條而且跟計劃的名稱有不符合的狀況對但是我就說就公開就這一個標案的公開來說目前其實是都有放在工程會上面是能夠查得到的好本期還是要求啊歷次我們這些相關的跟計劃名稱不符合的其實就業安定基金我從上一次質詢的時候就已經有講過"},{"start":467.802,"end":490.68,"text":"12項裡面的法令規定你有很多的計劃名稱其實是跟到最後使用用途是不符合的包括說辦公室的裝潢包括是說咖啡豆採購包括說這次演唱會的辦理所以像這些部分部長你之前有承諾過什麼時候會檢討出來跟委員說明上禮拜我承諾過其實在我們會在一個月"},{"start":492.262,"end":507.655,"text":"這時間裡面讓我們提出這個方案那我應該講也講到了一個重點其實在這個收支管理辦法裡面他其實有列了12項對我們現在也在看這12項裡面有沒有哪些項目其實應該做一個更嚴謹的把關或條件的限定"},{"start":508.556,"end":526.55,"text":"這部分也在我們檢討的範圍內。要怎麼樣的把關限定是有委員的部分其實這也是本席剛剛有一直強調的就是說你其實就要安定基金的委員當然的主持人是人從過去到現在其實有開會但是有開等於沒開啊而且"},{"start":527.714,"end":549.853,"text":"如果說真的有執行出這樣子的委員會的一個成效的話其實也就不會發生演唱會那麼離譜的一個事件了自己簽和自己辦不覺得這樣子真的是很誇張嗎我要說明的事情是當然這個管理的成員這個部分我們怎麼樣讓他能夠更大的發揮功能"},{"start":550.914,"end":554.719,"text":"公務及基金預算及重建中心114年度中心114年度中心114年度中心114年度中心"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:37:41.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:37:41.645000+08:00","text":"主席謝謝，麻煩請洪部長。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-09T12:37:41.645000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T12:37:42.645000+08:00","text":"請洪部長。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:37:42.645000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T12:37:43.645000+08:00","text":"洪委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:37:41.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:37:50.148000+08:00","text":"洪部長好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:37:52.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:38:12.343000+08:00","text":"11月25號到現在上任兩個禮拜的時間，你剛剛也講最近都很忙，我想我們也來維基解密一下，因為本席也很好奇，你在這一屆、第11屆其實是擔任立法委員，當初在不分區立委的時候，曾經有想過會中途一半就來接任部長嗎？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:38:12.343000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T12:38:15.269000+08:00","text":"那是意外。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:38:15.269000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T12:38:18.195000+08:00","text":"意外嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:38:18.195000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T12:38:21.121000+08:00","text":"對不對，好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:38:21.121000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T12:38:24.047000+08:00","text":"當初在接任部長的時候，是卓榮泰院長親自找你溝通？","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:38:24.047000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T12:38:26.973000+08:00","text":"行政院邀請。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:38:26.973000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T12:38:29.899000+08:00","text":"行政院邀請，所以卓院長沒有跟你溝通過，要你接任勞動部長？","quality":0.12},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:38:29.899000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T12:38:32.825000+08:00","text":"行政院來邀請。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:38:32.825000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T12:38:35.751000+08:00","text":"等一下，部長，我好奇了，你說卓榮泰院長沒有跟你私下談，然後就直接跟你講說你要接任勞動部長？","quality":0.15},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:38:35.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:38:37.092000+08:00","text":"就是行政院來邀請的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:38:37.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:38:38.193000+08:00","text":"來邀請，對啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:38:38.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:38:46.860000+08:00","text":"我知道，所以我的意思是說，你跟院長有沒有溝通過，還是甚至賴總統有沒有跟你溝通過？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:38:46.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:38:51.984000+08:00","text":"勞動部是行政院的所屬機關，是其中一個部會機關，所以是行政院來邀請的。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:38:52.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:38:53.805000+08:00","text":"是，那院長有沒有跟你溝通？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:38:54.105000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:38:56.167000+08:00","text":"院長有私下跟你溝通嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:38:56.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:39:01.671000+08:00","text":"要你臨危受命，想要說服你接下這個重責大任，有吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:39:02.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:39:03.132000+08:00","text":"他們是來邀請。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:39:04.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:39:06.131000+08:00","text":"部長，這有很難回答嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:39:06.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:39:07.331000+08:00","text":"我聽不太懂耶！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:39:07.331000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T12:39:09.112000+08:00","text":"部長，你……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:39:09.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:39:09.772000+08:00","text":"就是來邀請。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:39:10.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:39:22.117000+08:00","text":"對，來邀請，我知道，但我是說來邀請的時候，你有沒有做過討論或者是思考，甚至是說第一時間可能不確定，為什麼這個時候要你接下這個燙手山芋？","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:39:23.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:39:24.678000+08:00","text":"我當然會有我自己的思考。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:39:25.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:39:28.280000+08:00","text":"是，所以你有沒有跟院長好好的開誠布公溝通過？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:39:30.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:39:34.174000+08:00","text":"院長有沒有期許你接任這個勞動部長有什麼樣的任務要完成？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:39:35.445000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:39:55.293000+08:00","text":"行政院當然是希望我要好好地……尤其優先處理現在在部內發生的這個所謂霸凌的爭議事件，也包括現在內部同仁目前因為這個事件所帶來的一些不安或者是很惶恐的狀態。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:39:55.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:40:00.975000+08:00","text":"所以這聽起來是救火，把勞動部這個霸凌事件給好好的落幕，是不是？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:40:02.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:40:05.937000+08:00","text":"短期來說的話，當然現在這是我們最優先的事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:40:06.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:40:32.965000+08:00","text":"那你有沒有跟院長溝通，過去到現在，你擔任立法委員的時候都曾經針對勞動部有非常多的期許跟要求，包括不只是育嬰假的部分能以日為單位，更希望能給雇主更多的誘因參與試辦計畫等等相關你的堅持跟主張，有沒有要求院長，就是說如果你接任部長的話，你過去的主張，你也一定會在勞動部的任內來推動？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:40:37.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:40:42.451000+08:00","text":"因為我上一屆在衛環委員會裡面，我當然會對於勞動部有各種的監督。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:40:44.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:40:45.452000+08:00","text":"部長你這樣子講得非常的閃爍，我不禁……","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:40:46.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:40:46.972000+08:00","text":"我沒有閃爍啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:40:47.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:40:48.713000+08:00","text":"你到底有沒有跟院長溝通過？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:40:48.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:40:50.433000+08:00","text":"你在接任之前有沒有跟院長溝通過？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:40:50.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:40:51.634000+08:00","text":"他們來跟我邀請……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:40:51.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:40:52.414000+08:00","text":"他們是誰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:40:52.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:40:55.595000+08:00","text":"行政院當然有來跟我邀請，這是確實的事情。是啊！","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:40:55.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:40:57.455000+08:00","text":"所以你有沒有跟院長親自開會討論過？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:41:00.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:41:00.836000+08:00","text":"開什麼會？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:41:00.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:41:07.277000+08:00","text":"就是院長要聘請任何一個人擔任他的部屬的時候，部會首長……","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:41:07.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:41:09.018000+08:00","text":"行政院來跟我邀請，當然我做我該做……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:41:09.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:41:10.138000+08:00","text":"行政院是誰啊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:41:11.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:41:24.120000+08:00","text":"行政院來跟我邀請，當然我做我該做的考慮，後來我決定，我願意接受這個任務。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:41:24.120000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T12:41:25.120000+08:00","text":"所以是院長、副院長、秘書長還是政委來跟你溝通？","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:41:24.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:41:29.139000+08:00","text":"最後我考慮以後，我願意接受這個任務，那我就有我該承擔的責任。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:41:29.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:41:35.245000+08:00","text":"部長，這不禁讓我懷疑，你是不是連跟院長溝通的機會都沒有，你就接下這個任務？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:41:35.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:41:51.735000+08:00","text":"我想部會那麼重要的一個職務，或者是小至一般私人公司，今天要聘請一個單位主管的時候，總經理沒有跟這個單位主管溝通到底要做什麼樣的事情，然後你就接任？。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:41:52.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:42:01.058000+08:00","text":"行政院有來跟我邀請，我也告知我會有的考慮，經過我考慮之後，我決定要接受這份任務。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:42:01.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:42:03.259000+08:00","text":"好啦，部長看起來有些難言之隱。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:42:03.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:42:09.941000+08:00","text":"再來請教一下，就業安定基金之前很多委員也都有關心，本席上個禮拜也有關心過，對不對？是。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:42:10.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:42:13.662000+08:00","text":"現在我們要要求的是說，因為在這一次其實很離譜的狀況是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:42:15.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:42:27.449000+08:00","text":"是這個演唱會等等的部分，剛剛你們的會計主管也講，這個演唱會最後有簽核到前任部長，有簽核過才來辦，對不對？是。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:42:27.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:42:34.372000+08:00","text":"換言之，外界會質疑有所謂的自肥，就是說你真的要用人民的納稅錢開演唱會，你自己找錢嘛！","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:42:34.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:42:44.377000+08:00","text":"你怎麼會用就業安定基金，巧立名目變成是政令宣導，然後來辦演唱會，還自己簽核、自己來演，這就莫名其妙了。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:42:44.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:43:10.319000+08:00","text":"可是本席現在要講的另外一個部分，上禮拜我也要求，應該要比照其他部會，其實其他部會也有相關的基金，像文化部基金用於政府採購案的案件，也都會公告在相關的官網上面；但在就業安定基金裡面，其實用於採購的部分是沒有公告在相關官網的，這一點是不是應該要改進？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:43:10.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:43:15.983000+08:00","text":"我之前有回復其他委員，因為我們現在正在檢討就業安定基金整體的管理機制……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:43:17.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:43:18.925000+08:00","text":"是，包括委員的……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:43:19.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:43:35.673000+08:00","text":"我自己希望這個管理的機制，第一個，要怎麼讓它更專業，包括外部委員的角色，也包括怎麼讓它朝向一個更明確監理化的角度去規劃，當然剛才說關於一些資訊揭露的部分，我也覺得可以做得更多。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:43:36.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:43:45.537000+08:00","text":"政府採購在一般的本預算裡面，為什麼大家會覺得是巧立名目或是走後門、走巧門？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:43:45.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:44:14.470000+08:00","text":"政府採購只要超過10萬元以上就要公開電子採購，甚至比較大額的都會在相關的網站上可以找到，但是就業安定基金裡面，就像剛剛鄭天財委員秀出來的，不管是買咖啡豆的、請保全的、清潔的、辦演唱會的，沒有辦法在電子採購官網上找到，我們也沒有辦法看到說這些案件到底是不是跟計畫的名稱一樣，所以這就是逃避監督啊！","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:44:15.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:44:21.073000+08:00","text":"所以能不能承諾未來基金的部分用於採購也一定要公開在網站上面？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:44:21.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:44:25.894000+08:00","text":"現在這個相關的採購在網路上面其實就看得到了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:44:26.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:44:29.496000+08:00","text":"沒有在官方網站啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"丁處長玉珍","start":"2024-12-09T12:44:29.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:44:30.496000+08:00","text":"在公共工程網站。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:44:30.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:44:31.837000+08:00","text":"在公共工程網站上其實都可以查得到的。","quality":0.529},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:44:32.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:44:39.299000+08:00","text":"但是不是比照文化部等相關部會，基金歷年用於政府採購案件，一併公告在勞發署的官方網站？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:44:42.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:44:50.695000+08:00","text":"我們當然可以把它做一個整理，其實放在勞發署網站也可以，但是有時候在工程會的網站上面，只要是公開招標的標案都可以找得到。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:44:53.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:44:59.726000+08:00","text":"但是過去到現在大家就認為這就是有巧門，而且跟計畫的名稱有不符合的狀況，是不是？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:44:59.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:45:06.571000+08:00","text":"對，但是我的意思是說，就這一個標案的公開來說，目前其實是都有放在工程會上面，是能夠查得到的。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:45:07.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:45:39.177000+08:00","text":"好，本席還是要求歷次跟計畫名稱不符合的……其實針對就業安定基金，我從上一次質詢的時候就已經講過，就12項裡面的法令規定來說，你有很多的計畫名稱其實是跟最後的使用用途不符合的，包括辦公室的裝潢、咖啡豆採購，包括這次演唱會的辦理，這些部分部長你之前有承諾過，請問什麼時候會檢討出來？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:45:39.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:45:46.383000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，上禮拜我承諾過，我們會在一個月的時間裡面提出這個方案。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:45:48.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:45:54.130000+08:00","text":"委員剛才也講到一個重點，其實在這個收支管理辦法裡面有列了12項。對。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:45:54.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:46:03.738000+08:00","text":"我們現在也在看這12項裡面有沒有哪些項目，其實應該做一個更嚴謹的把關或條件的限定，這部分也在我們檢討的範圍內。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:46:03.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:46:18.849000+08:00","text":"要怎麼樣的把關、限定是取決於委員的部分，其實這也是本席剛剛一直強調的，就是就業安定基金委員的組成，從過去到現在雖然有開會，但是有開等於沒開啊！","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:46:19.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:46:33.325000+08:00","text":"而且如果委員會真的有執行成效的話，其實也就不會發生演唱會那麼離譜的一個事件，自己簽核、自己辦，不覺得這樣子真的是很誇張嗎？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:46:33.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T12:46:42.833000+08:00","text":"委員，我要說明的事情是，當然有關管理成員的部分我們怎麼樣讓它能夠發揮更大的功能，其實也不只是成員的部分，甚至包括機制的部分，甚至是不是要有更多的條件限定，這些事情都在我們現在檢討的範圍內。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:46:43.333000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T12:46:48.475857+08:00","text":"好，所以一個禮拜內會提出相關的書面報告？","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2024-12-09T12:46:48.775857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T12:46:51.633000+08:00","text":"不是一個禮拜，是一個月。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:46:51.933000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T12:46:53.075857+08:00","text":"一個月。是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-12-09T12:46:53.375857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T12:46:54.804429+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-09T12:46:55.104429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T12:46:59.104429+08:00","text":"謝謝洪孟楷委員的發言，謝謝部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-09T12:46:59.404429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T12:47:03.690143+08:00","text":"在羅廷瑋委員發言完畢後，休息20分鐘。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":935,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（12時37分）主席謝謝，麻煩請洪部長。"],["主席：請洪部長。"],["洪部長申翰：洪委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：洪部長好。11月25號到現在上任兩個禮拜的時間，你剛剛也講最近都很忙，我想我們也來維基解密一下，因為本席也很好奇，你在這一屆、第11屆其實是擔任立法委員，當初在不分區立委的時候，曾經有想過會中途一半就來接任部長嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：那是意外。"],["洪委員孟楷：意外嘛！對不對，好。當初在接任部長的時候，是卓榮泰院長親自找你溝通？"],["洪部長申翰：行政院邀請。"],["洪委員孟楷：行政院邀請，所以卓院長沒有跟你溝通過，要你接任勞動部長？"],["洪部長申翰：行政院來邀請。"],["洪委員孟楷：等一下，部長，我好奇了，你說卓榮泰院長沒有跟你私下談，然後就直接跟你講說你要接任勞動部長？"],["洪部長申翰：就是行政院來邀請的。"],["洪委員孟楷：來邀請，對啊！我知道，所以我的意思是說，你跟院長有沒有溝通過，還是甚至賴總統有沒有跟你溝通過？"],["洪部長申翰：勞動部是行政院的所屬機關，是其中一個部會機關，所以是行政院來邀請的。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，那院長有沒有跟你溝通？院長有私下跟你溝通嗎？要你臨危受命，想要說服你接下這個重責大任，有吧？"],["洪部長申翰：他們是來邀請。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，這有很難回答嗎？我聽不太懂耶！部長，你……"],["洪部長申翰：就是來邀請。"],["洪委員孟楷：對，來邀請，我知道，但我是說來邀請的時候，你有沒有做過討論或者是思考，甚至是說第一時間可能不確定，為什麼這個時候要你接下這個燙手山芋？"],["洪部長申翰：我當然會有我自己的思考。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，所以你有沒有跟院長好好的開誠布公溝通過？院長有沒有期許你接任這個勞動部長有什麼樣的任務要完成？"],["洪部長申翰：行政院當然是希望我要好好地……尤其優先處理現在在部內發生的這個所謂霸凌的爭議事件，也包括現在內部同仁目前因為這個事件所帶來的一些不安或者是很惶恐的狀態。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以這聽起來是救火，把勞動部這個霸凌事件給好好的落幕，是不是？"],["洪部長申翰：短期來說的話，當然現在這是我們最優先的事情。"],["洪委員孟楷：那你有沒有跟院長溝通，過去到現在，你擔任立法委員的時候都曾經針對勞動部有非常多的期許跟要求，包括不只是育嬰假的部分能以日為單位，更希望能給雇主更多的誘因參與試辦計畫等等相關你的堅持跟主張，有沒有要求院長，就是說如果你接任部長的話，你過去的主張，你也一定會在勞動部的任內來推動？"],["洪部長申翰：因為我上一屆在衛環委員會裡面，我當然會對於勞動部有各種的監督。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長你這樣子講得非常的閃爍，我不禁……"],["洪部長申翰：我沒有閃爍啊！"],["洪委員孟楷：你到底有沒有跟院長溝通過？你在接任之前有沒有跟院長溝通過？"],["洪部長申翰：他們來跟我邀請……"],["洪委員孟楷：他們是誰？"],["洪部長申翰：行政院當然有來跟我邀請，這是確實的事情。"],["洪委員孟楷：是啊！所以你有沒有跟院長親自開會討論過？"],["洪部長申翰：開什麼會？"],["洪委員孟楷：就是院長要聘請任何一個人擔任他的部屬的時候，部會首長……"],["洪部長申翰：行政院來跟我邀請，當然我做我該做……"],["洪委員孟楷：行政院是誰啊？"],["洪部長申翰：行政院來跟我邀請，當然我做我該做的考慮，後來我決定，我願意接受這個任務。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以是院長、副院長、秘書長還是政委來跟你溝通？"],["洪部長申翰：最後我考慮以後，我願意接受這個任務，那我就有我該承擔的責任。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，這不禁讓我懷疑，你是不是連跟院長溝通的機會都沒有，你就接下這個任務？我想部會那麼重要的一個職務，或者是小至一般私人公司，今天要聘請一個單位主管的時候，總經理沒有跟這個單位主管溝通到底要做什麼樣的事情，然後你就接任？。"],["洪部長申翰：行政院有來跟我邀請，我也告知我會有的考慮，經過我考慮之後，我決定要接受這份任務。"],["洪委員孟楷：好啦，部長看起來有些難言之隱。再來請教一下，就業安定基金之前很多委員也都有關心，本席上個禮拜也有關心過，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：現在我們要要求的是說，因為在這一次其實很離譜的狀況是什麼？是這個演唱會等等的部分，剛剛你們的會計主管也講，這個演唱會最後有簽核到前任部長，有簽核過才來辦，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：換言之，外界會質疑有所謂的自肥，就是說你真的要用人民的納稅錢開演唱會，你自己找錢嘛！你怎麼會用就業安定基金，巧立名目變成是政令宣導，然後來辦演唱會，還自己簽核、自己來演，這就莫名其妙了。可是本席現在要講的另外一個部分，上禮拜我也要求，應該要比照其他部會，其實其他部會也有相關的基金，像文化部基金用於政府採購案的案件，也都會公告在相關的官網上面；但在就業安定基金裡面，其實用於採購的部分是沒有公告在相關官網的，這一點是不是應該要改進？"],["洪部長申翰：我之前有回復其他委員，因為我們現在正在檢討就業安定基金整體的管理機制……"],["洪委員孟楷：是，包括委員的……"],["洪部長申翰：我自己希望這個管理的機制，第一個，要怎麼讓它更專業，包括外部委員的角色，也包括怎麼讓它朝向一個更明確監理化的角度去規劃，當然剛才說關於一些資訊揭露的部分，我也覺得可以做得更多。"],["洪委員孟楷：政府採購在一般的本預算裡面，為什麼大家會覺得是巧立名目或是走後門、走巧門？政府採購只要超過10萬元以上就要公開電子採購，甚至比較大額的都會在相關的網站上可以找到，但是就業安定基金裡面，就像剛剛鄭天財委員秀出來的，不管是買咖啡豆的、請保全的、清潔的、辦演唱會的，沒有辦法在電子採購官網上找到，我們也沒有辦法看到說這些案件到底是不是跟計畫的名稱一樣，所以這就是逃避監督啊！所以能不能承諾未來基金的部分用於採購也一定要公開在網站上面？"],["洪部長申翰：現在這個相關的採購在網路上面其實就看得到了。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有在官方網站啊！"],["丁處長玉珍：在公共工程網站。"],["洪部長申翰：在公共工程網站上其實都可以查得到的。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是不是比照文化部等相關部會，基金歷年用於政府採購案件，一併公告在勞發署的官方網站？"],["洪部長申翰：我們當然可以把它做一個整理，其實放在勞發署網站也可以，但是有時候在工程會的網站上面，只要是公開招標的標案都可以找得到。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是過去到現在大家就認為這就是有巧門，而且跟計畫的名稱有不符合的狀況，是不是？"],["洪部長申翰：對，但是我的意思是說，就這一個標案的公開來說，目前其實是都有放在工程會上面，是能夠查得到的。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，本席還是要求歷次跟計畫名稱不符合的……其實針對就業安定基金，我從上一次質詢的時候就已經講過，就12項裡面的法令規定來說，你有很多的計畫名稱其實是跟最後的使用用途不符合的，包括辦公室的裝潢、咖啡豆採購，包括這次演唱會的辦理，這些部分部長你之前有承諾過，請問什麼時候會檢討出來？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，上禮拜我承諾過，我們會在一個月的時間裡面提出這個方案。委員剛才也講到一個重點，其實在這個收支管理辦法裡面有列了12項。"],["洪委員孟楷：對。"],["洪部長申翰：我們現在也在看這12項裡面有沒有哪些項目，其實應該做一個更嚴謹的把關或條件的限定，這部分也在我們檢討的範圍內。"],["洪委員孟楷：要怎麼樣的把關、限定是取決於委員的部分，其實這也是本席剛剛一直強調的，就是就業安定基金委員的組成，從過去到現在雖然有開會，但是有開等於沒開啊！而且如果委員會真的有執行成效的話，其實也就不會發生演唱會那麼離譜的一個事件，自己簽核、自己辦，不覺得這樣子真的是很誇張嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我要說明的事情是，當然有關管理成員的部分我們怎麼樣讓它能夠發揮更大的功能，其實也不只是成員的部分，甚至包括機制的部分，甚至是不是要有更多的條件限定，這些事情都在我們現在檢討的範圍內。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，所以一個禮拜內會提出相關的書面報告？"],["洪部長申翰：不是一個禮拜，是一個月。"],["洪委員孟楷：一個月。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，謝謝。"],["洪部長申翰：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員的發言，謝謝部長。","重新宣告：在羅廷瑋委員發言完畢後，休息20分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":196,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-13","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","王育敏","涂權吉","盧縣一","陳瑩","蘇清泉","陳培瑜","林淑芬","賴士葆","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","洪孟楷","羅廷瑋","麥玉珍","楊曜","王正旭","黃國昌","張啓楷","劉建國","翁曉玲","王鴻薇","張雅琳"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-09"],"gazette_id":"1140403","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140403_00002","1140403_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案\n關於勞動部主管預算（公務及基金預算）；三、審查勞動部函送財團法人職業災害預防及重建中心\n114年度預算書案【所列預算案，僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1140403_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}