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光客現在本來以為有補助就去了嘛後來有的退房了所以業者講說大概退了三成左右那有的民眾很錯愕本來想說有補助去就排定之後後來發現沒補助其實這也是一個很錯愕的狀況然後再來我想問說因為五月天之前因為颱風延期嘛當時也有一個補助那這個會受到經費不足影響還是有保留"},{"start":393.803,"end":398.927,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":412.978,"end":413.858,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:01:13.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:01:14.048000+08:00","text":"麻煩請找部長，謝謝。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-09T13:01:14.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:01:14.068000+08:00","text":"請陳部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:01:14.068000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:01:27.054000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:01:27.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:01:27.054000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:01:27.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:01:39.499000+08:00","text":"跟你請教一下，因為我看到你有提到臺鐵會不會漲價，要等到農曆年後才比較有可能提出，而且您提到說社會要務實討論，那大概具體來說什麼時候會提出？","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:01:40.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:01:54.785000+08:00","text":"我會這樣問是因為我覺得，很多通勤族實際上都會很想要知道，到底什麼時候會漲價，因為他們可以預先安排，有的人可能會要搬到離家裡近一點，或者是選擇其他的交通工具等等，所以大概什麼時候會提出來？","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:01:54.785000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:01:59.592421+08:00","text":"報告委員，不管什麼時候提出來，對於通勤族的影響都會非常的微小，因為我們現在整個交通部有一個TPASS的計畫也正在施行，目前只要是使用通勤月票的通勤族，基本上即便是臺鐵漲價，在通勤部分的影響是非常微小，甚至可以說是沒有影響。","quality":0.039},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:01:59.592421+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:02:04.399842+08:00","text":"我覺得應該還是有啦，所以大概什麼時候提出來？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:02:04.399842+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:02:09.207263+08:00","text":"大概嘛。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:02:09.207263+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:02:14.014684+08:00","text":"過年之前不會有漲價的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:02:14.014684+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:02:18.822105+08:00","text":"我知道，但是過年大概也快到了，那是2月、3月、4月、5月、6月……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:02:18.822105+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:02:23.629526+08:00","text":"目前還沒提出來。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:02:23.629526+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:02:28.436947+08:00","text":"目前還沒有，所以還在規劃當中？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:02:28.436947+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:02:33.244368+08:00","text":"那你提到說社會要務實討論，是指說要討論哪幾個指標？指標？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:02:33.244368+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:02:38.051789+08:00","text":"對、對、對，因為務實討論總是會根據一些標準來討論嘛。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:02:38.051789+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:02:42.859211+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為臺鐵已經30年沒有漲價，我想臺灣所有的交通運具要像臺鐵這樣30年不漲價，其實應該少見啦，所以我認為這個部分大家要務實來看待，就是說臺鐵現在也公司化了，現在也有相當多年輕的從業人員進到這間公司，他們也希望這間公司可以永續的來經營……","quality":0.064},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:02:42.859211+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:02:47.666632+08:00","text":"對，當然。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:02:47.666632+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:02:52.474053+08:00","text":"對他們未來的職涯才會有幫助……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:02:52.474053+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:02:57.281474+08:00","text":"我只是想知道會根據什麼，因為之前臺鐵曾經算過說要有合理的報酬率，若要計入合理報酬率的話，那個調幅就很高，譬如說如果是5%的話，就是大概要漲44%左右……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:02:57.281474+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:03:02.088895+08:00","text":"一方面我們考量到……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:03:02.088895+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:03:06.896316+08:00","text":"所以這個報酬率會是你其中一個考量嘛……","quality":0.059},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:03:06.896316+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:03:11.703737+08:00","text":"報酬率當然會是其中一個考量。","quality":0.077},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:03:11.703737+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:03:16.511158+08:00","text":"但是3%、4%、5%到現在還沒有確定嘛，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:03:16.511158+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:03:21.318579+08:00","text":"這個還沒確定。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:03:21.318579+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:03:26.126000+08:00","text":"還沒確定。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:03:26.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:04:02.951000+08:00","text":"我想臺鐵要漲價可能已經是個必然趨勢，但是我覺得旅客可能會要求臺鐵服務品質要提高，因為太多人反映臺鐵的準點率真的非常低，我們有看到臺鐵講說準點率已經非常高了，本來今年要設定97%嘛，但是1到8月準點率達到93.01%，然後自強號是85%的準點率，可是我們都知道這個準點率不是實際的狀況，因為臺鐵的準點率跟我們一般旅客的想像不一樣，你們是在一定的誤點範圍內都算準點嘛，對吧？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:04:03.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:04:06.579000+08:00","text":"大概誤點幾分鐘內算準點？5分鐘。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:04:06.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:04:09.902000+08:00","text":"5分鐘，對嘛，可是一般民眾他不會接受這樣啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:04:10.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:04:18.971000+08:00","text":"5分鐘對大家來說，整個累積下來都是很長的一個時間，所以我覺得當然你會說這是國際標準什麼的，可是實際上旅客的感受……","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:04:18.971000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:04:19.971000+08:00","text":"確實這是國際標準。對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:04:19.872000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:04:21.774000+08:00","text":"是，但是實際上旅客的感受不是嘛……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:04:21.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:04:23.415000+08:00","text":"旅客都希望能夠準點剛好那個……","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:04:23.696000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:04:28.480000+08:00","text":"準點啦，大家為什麼要搭臺鐵，就是因為時間可以看嘛，對不對？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:04:28.480000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:04:36.664429+08:00","text":"可以算自己的時間嘛，所以這5分鐘其實對他們來說，我覺得每天大家在通勤趕上下班都是有影響，所以可不可以不要用這種數字來當作自我期許的目標，可以做得到百分之百的準點，我說至少以此做為一個標準，用百分之百來當作你們內部的考核，否則其實你提供這種數據出來，大家看不太出來你到底有沒有提升啦。是。","quality":0.015},{"speaker":"杜董事長微","start":"2024-12-09T13:04:36.664429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:04:44.848857+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實並不是臺鐵公司說達到了百分之……就是有5分鐘……","quality":0.038},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:04:44.848857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:04:53.033286+08:00","text":"我是一個期許啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:04:53.033286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:05:01.217714+08:00","text":"然後再來就想請教一下，9月份那時候董事長杜微被工會罵，說幫自己記一個大功，請問一下，後來這個大功有記嗎？沒有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:05:01.217714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:05:09.402143+08:00","text":"後來為什麼沒記？","quality":0},{"speaker":"杜董事長微","start":"2024-12-09T13:05:09.402143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:05:17.586571+08:00","text":"不是後來，是根本就沒有提過這種事啦。沒有？有啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:05:17.586571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:05:25.771000+08:00","text":"你那時候的回答是說交通部來決定。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"杜董事長微","start":"2024-12-09T13:05:25.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:05:26.291000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有、沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:05:26.291000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:05:27.291000+08:00","text":"有啦，那你怎麼沒有去告工會造謠？","quality":0},{"speaker":"杜董事長微","start":"2024-12-09T13:05:26.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:05:30.054000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，記功記過這種獎懲的事件……","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:05:30.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:05:31.115000+08:00","text":"沒有記就對了？對。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:05:31.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:05:35.478000+08:00","text":"那問題是當時你是說要給交通部來決定，好，我還有一個問題請教一下……","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"杜董事長微","start":"2024-12-09T13:05:36.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:05:36.639000+08:00","text":"我是講獎懲是交通部……","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:05:36.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:05:38.460000+08:00","text":"決定當然是交通部來決定沒有錯，但是當時就沒有送這個案子。","quality":0.423},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:05:38.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:05:43.844000+08:00","text":"對啦，但是你有幫自己提嘛，人家講的是說你怎麼會幫自己提大功這件事情嘛。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"杜董事長微","start":"2024-12-09T13:05:44.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:05:44.545000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有，沒有這件事。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:05:45.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:05:47.907000+08:00","text":"報告委員，當時如果有提我就會收到，但實際上我沒收到。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:05:48.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:05:50.089000+08:00","text":"因為被罵之後，後來就沒送嘛，那不然你怎麼沒有去罵工會造謠？","quality":0.462},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:05:50.089000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:05:59.329200+08:00","text":"所以一定是有，人家說空穴不來風嘛，沒有就沒有啦。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:05:59.329200+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:06:08.569400+08:00","text":"再來請教一下，現在花蓮自由行補助提前結束，後來我看觀光署的說法是說，因為之前的文宣上面就有講到經費沒了就不會再補助，是這樣嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:06:08.569400+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:06:17.809600+08:00","text":"可是，部長，你可以看一下，你知道他寫在哪裡嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:06:17.809600+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:06:27.049800+08:00","text":"他寫在右上角一小行字，這個如果是公平會都會認定廣告不實。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:06:27.049800+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:06:36.290000+08:00","text":"以前有個電信公司講說網內互打免費，大家就卯起來網內互打，結果後來收到一堆的帳單，他說你看一下我們右上角有印一行小字寫說限前3分鐘，後來那個電信公司就被判廣告不實。","quality":0.213},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:06:36.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:06:47.884000+08:00","text":"你看一下你們文宣，跟大家講說期限到20號寫得這麼大，然後經費用完就不補助寫得超小，跟螞蟻一樣小，你覺得這個在公平會認定上有沒有廣告不實？","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:06:48.105000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:06:50.848000+08:00","text":"報告委員，如果有民眾去檢舉的話，就看公平會怎麼判斷，但我們希望跟您報告，這個補助……","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:06:51.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:07:07.687000+08:00","text":"不是啦，民眾不會去檢舉啦，部長，我要講的是說那個標準，如果說你要告訴大家，你到12月20號然後經費用完就不補助，那個字的大小要跟12月20號一樣大啦，對不對？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:07:07.687000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:07:08.687000+08:00","text":"好，以後會注意改進。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:07:08.168000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:07:26.761000+08:00","text":"這就是明顯的誤導，因為你的誤導，所以造成很多觀光客本來以為有補助就去了，後來有的退房了，所以業者講說大概退了三成左右，有的民眾很錯愕，本來想說有補助就去，結果排定之後，後來發現沒補助，其實這也是一個很錯愕的狀況。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:07:28.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-09T13:07:35.748000+08:00","text":"再來我想問說，五月天之前的演唱會因為颱風延期，當時也有補助，那這個會受到經費不足影響還是有保留？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:07:36.248000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:07:41.962286+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們的預算已經結束就是結束了，除非……","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:07:42.262286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:07:43.690857+08:00","text":"所以五月天……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:07:43.990857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:07:45.990857+08:00","text":"除非有新的預算。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:07:46.290857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:08:02.005143+08:00","text":"所以當時本來講五月天演唱會因為颱風延期，然後他們所得到的3,500塊補助本來也說會順延，現在是指說五月天的補助也沒了，是不是？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:08:02.305143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:08:05.448000+08:00","text":"因為我們的預算已經用完。","quality":0.182},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:08:05.748000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:08:10.319429+08:00","text":"所以五月天補助也沒有了，是這個意思？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:08:10.619429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:08:12.619429+08:00","text":"對，預算已經用完。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:08:12.919429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:08:23.205143+08:00","text":"OK，那這跟之前講的就不一樣了，當時的講法是說，因為五月天的演唱會有可能要順延……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:08:23.505143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:08:28.648000+08:00","text":"他順延但是要在我們這個計畫的時間裡面……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:08:28.948000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:08:30.662286+08:00","text":"可是因為當時……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:08:30.962286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:08:37.533714+08:00","text":"我不可能一直配合他，他如果延兩年，我要陪他延兩年嗎？","quality":0.043},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:08:37.833714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:08:38.976571+08:00","text":"不可能嘛。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:08:39.276571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:08:48.990857+08:00","text":"沒關係，我就是確定一下，因為那個時候講說會順延，現在五月天這個也沒有就對了？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-12-09T13:08:49.290857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:08:51.005143+08:00","text":"OK，好。謝謝。是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-12-09T13:08:51.305143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:08:52.448000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-09T13:08:52.748000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:08:54.748000+08:00","text":"謝謝葉元之委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-09T13:08:55.048000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:09:04.762286+08:00","text":"接下來邀請高金素梅委員發言，高金素梅委員，高金素梅委員，高金素梅委員不在場。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-09T13:09:05.062286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:09:13.348000+08:00","text":"接下來邀請賴士葆委員，賴士葆委員，賴士葆委員，賴士葆委員不在現場。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-09T13:09:13.648000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:09:22.505143+08:00","text":"接下來邀請林楚茵委員發言，林楚茵委員，林楚茵委員，林楚茵委員不在現場。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-09T13:09:22.805143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:09:31.090857+08:00","text":"接下來邀請麥玉珍委員，麥玉珍委員，麥玉珍委員，麥玉珍委員不在現場。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-09T13:09:31.390857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:09:39.676571+08:00","text":"接下來邀請林倩綺委員，林倩綺委員，林倩綺委員，林倩綺委員不在現場。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-09T13:09:39.976571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:09:48.548000+08:00","text":"登記質詢委員除不在場者外，均已發言完畢，作以下決議：報告及詢答完畢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-09T13:09:48.848000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:09:54.562286+08:00","text":"委員鍾佳濱所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，並刊登公報。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-09T13:09:54.862286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-09T13:10:04.576571+08:00","text":"委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答復部分，請交通部儘速以書面答復。","quality":0.029}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1359,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（13時1分）麻煩請找部長，謝謝。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：部長好。跟你請教一下，因為我看到你有提到臺鐵會不會漲價，要等到農曆年後才比較有可能提出，而且您提到說社會要務實討論，那大概具體來說什麼時候會提出？我會這樣問是因為我覺得，很多通勤族實際上都會很想要知道，到底什麼時候會漲價，因為他們可以預先安排，有的人可能會要搬到離家裡近一點，或者是選擇其他的交通工具等等，所以大概什麼時候會提出來？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，不管什麼時候提出來，對於通勤族的影響都會非常的微小，因為我們現在整個交通部有一個TPASS的計畫也正在施行，目前只要是使用通勤月票的通勤族，基本上即便是臺鐵漲價，在通勤部分的影響是非常微小，甚至可以說是沒有影響。"],["葉委員元之：我覺得應該還是有啦，所以大概什麼時候提出來？大概嘛。"],["陳部長世凱：過年之前不會有漲價的……"],["葉委員元之：我知道，但是過年大概也快到了，那是2月、3月、4月、5月、6月……"],["陳部長世凱：目前還沒提出來。"],["葉委員元之：目前還沒有，所以還在規劃當中？那你提到說社會要務實討論，是指說要討論哪幾個指標？"],["陳部長世凱：指標？"],["葉委員元之：對、對、對，因為務實討論總是會根據一些標準來討論嘛。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，因為臺鐵已經30年沒有漲價，我想臺灣所有的交通運具要像臺鐵這樣30年不漲價，其實應該少見啦，所以我認為這個部分大家要務實來看待，就是說臺鐵現在也公司化了，現在也有相當多年輕的從業人員進到這間公司，他們也希望這間公司可以永續的來經營……"],["葉委員元之：對，當然。"],["陳部長世凱：對他們未來的職涯才會有幫助……"],["葉委員元之：我只是想知道會根據什麼，因為之前臺鐵曾經算過說要有合理的報酬率，若要計入合理報酬率的話，那個調幅就很高，譬如說如果是5%的話，就是大概要漲44%左右……"],["陳部長世凱：一方面我們考量到……"],["葉委員元之：所以這個報酬率會是你其中一個考量嘛……"],["陳部長世凱：報酬率當然會是其中一個考量。"],["葉委員元之：但是3%、4%、5%到現在還沒有確定嘛，對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：這個還沒確定。"],["葉委員元之：還沒確定。我想臺鐵要漲價可能已經是個必然趨勢，但是我覺得旅客可能會要求臺鐵服務品質要提高，因為太多人反映臺鐵的準點率真的非常低，我們有看到臺鐵講說準點率已經非常高了，本來今年要設定97%嘛，但是1到8月準點率達到93.01%，然後自強號是85%的準點率，可是我們都知道這個準點率不是實際的狀況，因為臺鐵的準點率跟我們一般旅客的想像不一樣，你們是在一定的誤點範圍內都算準點嘛，對吧？大概誤點幾分鐘內算準點？"],["杜董事長微：5分鐘。"],["葉委員元之：5分鐘，對嘛，可是一般民眾他不會接受這樣啦！5分鐘對大家來說，整個累積下來都是很長的一個時間，所以我覺得當然你會說這是國際標準什麼的，可是實際上旅客的感受……"],["陳部長世凱：確實這是國際標準。對。"],["葉委員元之：是，但是實際上旅客的感受不是嘛……"],["陳部長世凱：旅客都希望能夠準點剛好那個……"],["葉委員元之：準點啦，大家為什麼要搭臺鐵，就是因為時間可以看嘛，對不對？可以算自己的時間嘛，所以這5分鐘其實對他們來說，我覺得每天大家在通勤趕上下班都是有影響，所以可不可以不要用這種數字來當作自我期許的目標，可以做得到百分之百的準點，我說至少以此做為一個標準，用百分之百來當作你們內部的考核，否則其實你提供這種數據出來，大家看不太出來你到底有沒有提升啦。"],["杜董事長微：是。跟委員報告，其實並不是臺鐵公司說達到了百分之……就是有5分鐘……"],["葉委員元之：我是一個期許啦！然後再來就想請教一下，9月份那時候董事長杜微被工會罵，說幫自己記一個大功，請問一下，後來這個大功有記嗎？"],["杜董事長微：沒有。"],["葉委員元之：後來為什麼沒記？"],["杜董事長微：不是後來，是根本就沒有提過這種事啦。"],["葉委員元之：沒有？有啊！你那時候的回答是說交通部來決定。"],["杜董事長微：沒有、沒有、沒有。"],["葉委員元之：有啦，那你怎麼沒有去告工會造謠？"],["杜董事長微：跟委員報告，記功記過這種獎懲的事件……"],["葉委員元之：沒有記就對了？"],["杜董事長微：對。"],["葉委員元之：那問題是當時你是說要給交通部來決定，好，我還有一個問題請教一下……"],["杜董事長微：我是講獎懲是交通部……"],["陳部長世凱：決定當然是交通部來決定沒有錯，但是當時就沒有送這個案子。"],["葉委員元之：對啦，但是你有幫自己提嘛，人家講的是說你怎麼會幫自己提大功這件事情嘛。"],["杜董事長微：沒有、沒有，沒有這件事。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，當時如果有提我就會收到，但實際上我沒收到。"],["葉委員元之：因為被罵之後，後來就沒送嘛，那不然你怎麼沒有去罵工會造謠？所以一定是有，人家說空穴不來風嘛，沒有就沒有啦。","再來請教一下，現在花蓮自由行補助提前結束，後來我看觀光署的說法是說，因為之前的文宣上面就有講到經費沒了就不會再補助，是這樣嗎？可是，部長，你可以看一下，你知道他寫在哪裡嗎？他寫在右上角一小行字，這個如果是公平會都會認定廣告不實。以前有個電信公司講說網內互打免費，大家就卯起來網內互打，結果後來收到一堆的帳單，他說你看一下我們右上角有印一行小字寫說限前3分鐘，後來那個電信公司就被判廣告不實。你看一下你們文宣，跟大家講說期限到20號寫得這麼大，然後經費用完就不補助寫得超小，跟螞蟻一樣小，你覺得這個在公平會認定上有沒有廣告不實？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，如果有民眾去檢舉的話，就看公平會怎麼判斷，但我們希望跟您報告，這個補助……"],["葉委員元之：不是啦，民眾不會去檢舉啦，部長，我要講的是說那個標準，如果說你要告訴大家，你到12月20號然後經費用完就不補助，那個字的大小要跟12月20號一樣大啦，對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：好，以後會注意改進。"],["葉委員元之：這就是明顯的誤導，因為你的誤導，所以造成很多觀光客本來以為有補助就去了，後來有的退房了，所以業者講說大概退了三成左右，有的民眾很錯愕，本來想說有補助就去，結果排定之後，後來發現沒補助，其實這也是一個很錯愕的狀況。","再來我想問說，五月天之前的演唱會因為颱風延期，當時也有補助，那這個會受到經費不足影響還是有保留？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我們的預算已經結束就是結束了，除非……"],["葉委員元之：所以五月天……"],["陳部長世凱：除非有新的預算。"],["葉委員元之：所以當時本來講五月天演唱會因為颱風延期，然後他們所得到的3,500塊補助本來也說會順延，現在是指說五月天的補助也沒了，是不是？"],["陳部長世凱：因為我們的預算已經用完。"],["葉委員元之：所以五月天補助也沒有了，是這個意思？"],["陳部長世凱：對，預算已經用完。"],["葉委員元之：OK，那這跟之前講的就不一樣了，當時的講法是說，因為五月天的演唱會有可能要順延……"],["陳部長世凱：他順延但是要在我們這個計畫的時間裡面……"],["葉委員元之：可是因為當時……"],["陳部長世凱：我不可能一直配合他，他如果延兩年，我要陪他延兩年嗎？不可能嘛。"],["葉委員元之：沒關係，我就是確定一下，因為那個時候講說會順延，現在五月天這個也沒有就對了？OK，好。謝謝。"],["陳部長世凱：是。謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員。","接下來邀請高金素梅委員發言，高金素梅委員，高金素梅委員，高金素梅委員不在場。","接下來邀請賴士葆委員，賴士葆委員，賴士葆委員，賴士葆委員不在現場。","接下來邀請林楚茵委員發言，林楚茵委員，林楚茵委員，林楚茵委員不在現場。","接下來邀請麥玉珍委員，麥玉珍委員，麥玉珍委員，麥玉珍委員不在現場。","接下來邀請林倩綺委員，林倩綺委員，林倩綺委員，林倩綺委員不在現場。","登記質詢委員除不在場者外，均已發言完畢，作以下決議：報告及詢答完畢。委員鍾佳濱所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，並刊登公報。委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答復部分，請交通部儘速以書面答復。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":334,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-14","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","李昆澤","林國成","何欣純","魯明哲","林俊憲","黃健豪","徐富癸","邱若華","蔡其昌","許智傑","羅廷瑋","王義川","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","張啓楷","游顥","廖先翔","蔡易餘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","葉元之","鍾佳濱"],"page_start":257,"meetingDate":["2024-12-09"],"gazette_id":"1140402","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140402_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部航港局單位預算；二、審查114年度中央政府總預\n算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管航港建設基金非營業預算；三、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於交通部主管臺灣港務股份有限公司營業預算；四、審查\n114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於交通部主管國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司營\n業預算；五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業\n基金─臺鐵局撥入資產及債務管理基金分預算【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1140402_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}