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謝謝主席那有請備題名人還是你要先喝口水請完備題名人有請備題名人 謝謝"},{"start":21.752,"end":49.911,"text":"王貝提名人您好我想就今天非常多委員都跟您提到了那你也表達了很多你對法律的見解跟關懷那我們辦公室長期以來都會關注跟兒少有關的議題那我不確定是不是您所熟悉的但是我想我今天想要就一個目前被最多家長跟老師團體當然還有包含很多兒少團體都在討論的議題也就是在上個禮拜行政院宣布為了符合聯合國兒童權利公司"},{"start":51.032,"end":52.193,"text":"我不曉得您知不知道這個法條之前的寫法是什麼"},{"start":74.483,"end":96.969,"text":"修法的公文與相關新聞稿一出爐．引起家長團體反彈．他們的說法是說．拿掉懲戒權．好像家長就沒有權力．可以管教小孩了．可是法務部當然有他們自己的說法．而且事實上臺灣在面臨．符合兒童權利公約的精神底下．確實我們在國際．"},{"start":99.009,"end":121.407,"text":"審查的時候已經被多次提醒那監察院人權委員會也有提出提醒所以其實法務部這個修法其實是經過了非常多年的討論跟有相關的法理背景所以我們做出這個修法可是家長的抗議跟家長的反對我們大概可以想像家長擔心的是會不會從今以後我沒有辦法管我自己的小孩了"},{"start":121.647,"end":121.967,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":141.015,"end":165.128,"text":"憲法沒有就家長的懲戒權就任何的這個定義看法只是確實如剛才委員所說的在這個因為我們最近剛好有審到一件這個兒童的案件那就是在兒童權利公約裡面確實是對於兒童的保障是不容許有任何一點點的這個對兒童的這個"},{"start":168.77,"end":192.209,"text":"所以在您的工作實務工作現場的經驗確實這個觀念也是現在的法官跟大部分在法務系統工作人所理解的那雖然沒有談到懲戒權的定義可是我認為對於相關的界限還有就是說假設今天有家長他們真的就認為如同他們記者會所提到的他們認為這個侵害到家長的懲戒權你自己怎麼看這件事情"},{"start":199.406,"end":224.293,"text":"尤其是您剛剛說保障兒童的身心正向發展這件事情絕對是我們在做出很多相關案件的處置的時候最重要的參考原則那如何在兼顧兒少的權益同時也兼顧家長的管教權這件事情您在實務現場或者是在未來假設在您擔任大法官的工作類似的案件您怎麼看待這個事情"},{"start":227.537,"end":243.392,"text":"基本上來講我還是覺得這個根據這個兒童權利公約那兒童是這個保護的主體大概還是要以兒童為最優先考慮的對象以他的權益做最高的一個"},{"start":244.302,"end":245.463,"text":"您認為家長的親權和教養權有被剝奪嗎?"},{"start":264.275,"end":288.305,"text":"親權跟教養權是沒有被剝奪只是說那個懲戒的那個字拿掉之後是不是家長覺得他完全的沒有辦法去適當的去教養他的小孩那委員這件案子這個問題就會涉及到說我們常常在講的就是說包括這個"},{"start":290.555,"end":290.595,"text":"陳培瑜議員"},{"start":310.555,"end":310.795,"text":"陳培瑜議員陳培瑜議員"},{"start":334.718,"end":334.798,"text":"陳培瑜議員"},{"start":354.737,"end":369.815,"text":"我相信假設這個民法1085未來在我們立法院通過之後我相信可能不用太久我們也許真的就會遇到類似的問題尤其是如果參考日本跟韓國的修法確實他們在修法過後"},{"start":370.516,"end":397.934,"text":"整個社會也確實造成了非常多的討論那我相信日本跟韓國的國情跟我們台灣是比較接近的不管是我們整個考試環境或是整個社會文化的背景那我相信這個議題絕對是您未來擔任大法官務必要開始研議的尤其是您剛剛說過它到底是抗多數的困境還是程序面的這個問題我認為非常多的實質討論那再加上兼顧社會民情還有相關的需求"},{"start":398.314,"end":425.031,"text":"但是又不要忘了兒童權利公約在在提醒我們的事情我認為這個問題我就先拋出來今天跟您做簡單的討論但我認為這個問題可能也許很快就會真的有機會發生變成一個社會要討論的公共議題因為這確實會有權利衝突的問題好嗎好這個部分我就先跟您討論到這邊那接下來我想跟您討論的一樣是跟比較跟憲法有關那在這個歐小玲對不起在這個前一陣子有一個這個統戰紀錄片"},{"start":426.912,"end":452.885,"text":"是一個叫做網紅八炯的人他所製作然後拍攝的那這個拍攝主角之一這個是一個饒舌歌手他叫閩南郎他其實在紀錄片當中分享了他曾經到中國去拍攝影片製作歌曲歌頌中國多麼美好然後相關的影片當然是對著臺灣的觀眾做發送當然也還包含他們中國我不知道被提名人你有沒有看這個紀錄片"},{"start":455.162,"end":456.563,"text":"中國為了對台灣進行所謂的文化跟資訊的統戰過往有所謂的買辦"},{"start":476.354,"end":493.113,"text":"到了現在年輕人比較不吃這一套了他們發現年輕人都黏著在所謂的數位社群媒體平台上不管是YG、IG或是Youtube或是Facebook甚至更新的Trade或是各式各樣的社群媒體因此呢拍短片這件事情"},{"start":493.653,"end":512.383,"text":"向臺灣的年輕人喊話是一個很新而且相對便宜的方法但是他們做得不著痕跡他們並不會讓大家做一個樣板戲在螢光幕前拍一段話歌頌中國的美好而是藉由介紹中國旅遊中國美食中國文化景點用非常軟性的訴求"},{"start":514.504,"end":541.73,"text":"製造出一種臺灣人對於中國認識的假象就是哇你看中國很了不起中國很進步啊中國沒有你們說的這麼可怕中國沒有極權啊沒有這些問題這樣子軟性的影片其實他背後有大量的統戰意圖甚至每年都花了大筆大筆的經費在投資製作這些影片以上這個是當時紀錄片所說的不知道到目前為止你對於整個紀錄片圖像有沒有比較清楚了"},{"start":543.019,"end":566.188,"text":"好,比較清楚,那我們就來問我想給您看一個20秒的影片,我們來看一下這個東西,如果是牽涉到紀委的話,你的可能性非常低很多東西估計都沒人敢幫你做估計都沒人敢幫你做到"},{"start":571.994,"end":582.804,"text":"好在這個20秒當中的影片呢他所掛在牆上是送給海峽島報的很多這些中堂那這個海峽島報就是這個紀錄片裡面提到非常重要的"},{"start":583.2,"end":583.24,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":604.954,"end":626.13,"text":"像這樣子我剛說那個影片或者是像這樣參與兩岸中國這些活動大家都認為這是一種言論自由是一種行動自由可是我認為如果當我們的言論自由行動自由他如果跟保護國家安全維護憲政體制產生衝突的話這個界線到底要如何去界定"},{"start":629.687,"end":630.068,"text":"有具體發生個案了嗎?"},{"start":647.373,"end":660.409,"text":"我記得是一位檢察官他當時在判過有一個國安的案子就是有台灣的軍人也好或是公務員他們也拍攝了一些他們在工作中的資料然後洩密給中國"},{"start":661.63,"end":676.416,"text":"他到底要用什麼樣的罪法來罰這個相關的行為他到底有沒有涉及所謂的外患罪因為如果一旦涉及外患罪他的構成要件是相對困難的可是他如果只是用洩露業務機密那或是國安法裡面可能就相對罪行是比較輕的"},{"start":677.396,"end":693.451,"text":"那所以呢之前有一個檢察官他在遇到類似的案件他認為法官侵犯了他甚至還有寫萬言書、投書那我要談的是就像這樣的案件其實在台灣越來越多不管是他是透過所謂的網紅年輕網紅拍片向台灣人宣傳中國的美好"},{"start":693.931,"end":694.051,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":713.078,"end":730.734,"text":"大法官被提名你如何看待言論自由、行動自由跟所謂國家安全憲政體系維護的界限就算您沒有相關的案例你應該可以想像這幾年台灣所面臨中國統戰的危機您不會一個事情都不知道吧"},{"start":731.86,"end":746.906,"text":"是那個就是就這個個案的部分就請委員見諒我是沒問題統戰紀錄片沒看過沒問題我是限職法官剛才聽您的提示這應該是細數中的案件所以我不便評論"},{"start":749.688,"end":763.406,"text":"我剛剛說的並不是相關案件,它已經結案結束了那如果類似這樣情形的話如果有人因此而受到了刑法或其他的行政法制裁的話"},{"start":770.692,"end":789.99,"text":"我其實要問的並不是這個因為在相關的法規範裡面其實你們的相關司法界大家已經在討論了我要問的是如果這些標榜為言論跟行動自由的這些內容或是素材但我們擺明認為他看起來就有害台灣的國安體制"},{"start":790.771,"end":797.763,"text":"現正體制對台灣整體體制是有害的你身為大法官你如何掐定那條界線你如何看待那個界線"},{"start":799.448,"end":826.365,"text":"如果是在釋憲案件裡面有這樣子當事人主張他的言論自由受到了限制的話那當然會做一個衡量那今天如果是他所受到的刑法或者是行政法是基於國家安全的考量就會做一個基本權跟其他的公共利益的衡量"},{"start":828.105,"end":847.814,"text":"我這樣聽起來我覺得我還是沒有聽到一個比較清楚的答案不過沒關係我相信日後您進入相關的工作領域當中如果透過更多討論也許這個事情可以討論得更清楚可是我要跟您表明的是目前在台灣做這些事情的人其實並不是只有我剛剛說的那些網紅"},{"start":849.255,"end":871.318,"text":"很多的行為人他的身份其實非常的特別包含有很多教授他以學術研究之名帶了很多的研究生也好博士生也好整個研究團隊到中國去做學術交流但這個學術交流有沒有違反了相關台灣學術安全自由這個堡壘的界限還有很多商人"},{"start":872.139,"end":894.785,"text":"他在兩岸之間的來往他以做生意的名義但可能在做了很多事情其實也是有害台灣國安還有很多網紅就是我剛剛說在做這些事情甚至台灣有非常多的民意代表跟政治人物他們也在做類似的事情我要問的就是站在維護台灣國安體制跟憲政體制"},{"start":895.305,"end":922.834,"text":"的這個界線上大法官你如何看大法官被提名人您如何看這件事情我認為這個界線他難道不會因為行為人的身份不同而應該有不同的界線跟不同的標準嗎還是我們真的覺得只要在台灣高喊言論自由高喊行動自由我們就可以不用去在意跟不用去保護台灣的國家安全跟保護台灣的憲政體制大家用台灣的民主自由"},{"start":923.314,"end":929.876,"text":"在踐踏台灣的民主自由但是卻在做符合極權的想像所要他們做的事情"},{"start":930.68,"end":957.464,"text":"言論自由是基本權之一因為言論自由涉及到精神上的表現就是個人意志的表現是受到一個高度的保障不過我們憲法23條也有規定到這個基本權雖然受到保障但是如果基於有必要的情況下的話還是可以在立法院就是立法者國會可以用"},{"start":958.024,"end":959.564,"text":"理法委員到中國去必須要有所報備"},{"start":986.77,"end":1005.839,"text":"甚至呢相關要報備的案子在立法院的程序委員會就被檔案了超過17次那我很好奇就憲法的高度您如何當然各院之間的業務各院各自主掌但是您如何看待所謂立法委員附中要報備其實我這個問題是因著前面關於所謂的中國統戰的問題而來"},{"start":1008.288,"end":1009.729,"text":"這個我個人認為就需要法律保留"},{"start":1038.353,"end":1039.274,"text":"你認為法律保留這件事情是重要的?"},{"start":1050.762,"end":1068.288,"text":"好,那我想要再問你喔又一樣是跟中國還有台灣有關喔前一陣子呢有一位雙重國籍的南投縣議員他被拔掉了他的議員資格因為呢他其實是有雙重國籍的我不知道你有沒有看到這個新聞來下一張不知道你有沒有看到這個新聞"},{"start":1073.464,"end":1096.262,"text":"也沒有好沒關係這個是一個南投的議員他是來自中國那在兩岸人民關係條例裡頭呢他只有取消他在中國的戶籍他其實並沒有放棄國籍但是他取得台灣人民身份證的身份是透過兩岸人民關係條例可是回到他擔任公職人員我們就必須要用國籍法來被要求也就是像我當然"},{"start":1096.562,"end":1111.642,"text":"不分區立法委員我就必須不可以有雙重國籍其實台灣國籍法裡面是有非常明白的規定那這一陣子呢內政部就做出說明內政部說就是我剛剛說的這些事情因此呢內政部依法行政解除其公職"},{"start":1113.024,"end":1129.66,"text":"內政部並不認為這樣是所謂的剝奪外籍配偶參政的問題我個人也支持這個說法因為確實擔任人民公職的這件事情擔任民意代表它的特殊性確實必須要把雙重國籍納入考慮就這個議題上請問被提名人您的看法是什麼"},{"start":1131.789,"end":1148.3,"text":"委員我先不就個案評論因為這可能會進入行政法院不過我覺得擔任公職必須要有憲法上的忠誠義務必須要具備憲法上的忠誠義務"},{"start":1150.021,"end":1150.881,"text":"對,就是必須要對中華民國忠誠"},{"start":1178.175,"end":1201.987,"text":"對中華民國忠誠我想這件事情是絕對絕對非常非常非常重要的最後時間只剩下30秒但是我還是要說國民黨的翁曉琳委員提出了憲法法庭憲法訴訟法這個事情我相信這個你一定有關注到吧我可不可以請您快速表達一下您的看法我是認為是把那個法定就是把憲由總和"},{"start":1205.606,"end":1230.997,"text":"還有把這個三分之二出席現有總人二分之一同意提升為三分之二出席三分之二同意如果這個一旦大法官就是因為各種原因出缺不足不足十人的話那憲法法庭可能就是真的會被癱瘓掉是那對於保障人民的權益其實影響很大這是我的認為好謝謝陳委員謝謝被提名人"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}