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議詢問。會議詢問。我們先確定議事錄。你對議事錄有意見。對議事錄有意見啊,要詢問啊。"},{"start":2296.748,"end":2318.34,"text":"主席,在場的委員先進。烈海時政組政協所長官員、會長工作夥伴、媒體之類的女士先生。我們看到了上次的會議。主席,我在詢問當中。我們現在我們就每個人就是發言的時間就限縮在兩分鐘內好了。因為我們後面還有很多事情要做。"},{"start":2320.078,"end":2321.659,"text":"行使法部分條文修正草案案。"},{"start":2335.203,"end":2348.027,"text":"來啦我直接講啦主席我們這個是4月1號的議事錄啦不要緊張不要緊張只是第一個會議詢問而已不要一開始就這麼緊張我們來看一下啦今天我們要確認的是4月1號的議事錄對不對"},{"start":2351.528,"end":2376.659,"text":"那表示本會上次在4月3號因為地震的關係審查會就沒有辦法進行嘛所以我們現在本次會是接續4月1號的審查會來進行的那我請大家看一下在上次的審查會當中我們當中請看討論四項討論四項一共審查立法委員職權行使法一共有七項中華民國刑法修法一案"},{"start":2377.435,"end":2384.882,"text":"還有羅委員等我們有三個立法委員副選院長副院長辦法一共是幾案一共是11案好那我們來看一下"},{"start":2387.83,"end":2410.387,"text":"那今天我們在列場的列案一共立法委員職權行使法包括有台灣民眾黨提的一案楊瓊萁委員提的一案霍昆齊委員提了三案翁曉琳委員提了兩案吳宗憲委員提了四案賴文維委員提了一案賴司法委員還有後面還有一共有15案這是立法院職權行使法"},{"start":2411.067,"end":2438.906,"text":"但是我們的刑法現在多了一案翁曉琳委員的一案還有我們羅志祥委員之後又有民眾黨黨團擬具柳明哲提了一案換言之我們上次審查會在案審查的一共有11案現在在案審查的有20案那這裡面我就特別要請其中的一部分請大家看一下就叫我們主席目前在我們"},{"start":2440.434,"end":2467.134,"text":"關係文書目錄當中第8項編號1的第8項47頁立法委員職權行使法部分條文修正草案這個上次在我們的4月1號的審查會當中並沒有列案請大家看第11號吳宗憲委員等立法院職權行使法在這第67頁這個在我們上次的4月1號的審查會也沒有列案"},{"start":2468.015,"end":2488.079,"text":"再請大家翻過來看到我們吳宗憲委員提的《立法院職權行使法》第14號第79頁這個在上次我們4月1號的審查會也沒有列案主席請問一下請問一下這幾個案子目前的會議的秩序是什麼好 那就"},{"start":2495.185,"end":2496.586,"text":"我只講一次我只講一次我已經講完了"},{"start":2528.294,"end":2533.879,"text":"我剛已經講完了會議詢問就要回答這個不需要列入會議公報這個會議詢問嘛會議詢問你說這幾個案子包括你的提案現在是什麼秩序嘛現在我們已經開始啦"},{"start":2553.417,"end":2557.741,"text":"我現在再說一次一件事情我不說第二次我們已經過了副議題"},{"start":2568.266,"end":2576.311,"text":"因為排案的內容跟上一次的不一樣 這一定要在議事錄確認的時候清楚的來釐清主席 主席 主席 主席 現在的本地的程序 會議詢問你要回答嗎"},{"start":2592.26,"end":2614.945,"text":"我沒有反對議事錄確認我只要詢問目前這幾個案的會場的秩序是什麼啦那如果主席要先確認議事錄我也沒有意見啦主席可以按照主席的職權去行使可以先確認議事錄再來回答我的問題好不好好不好好那好那請大家聽我說已經交付委員會審查了就是這樣子那我不再說第二次了"},{"start":2616.893,"end":2642.194,"text":"實在太簡略了這個主席有回答跟沒回答是一樣的好請問上一次會議的議事錄有沒有錯誤或遺漏沒有沒有好那議事錄確定好那接著我們介紹到場的委員那因為今天人數今天人比較多"},{"start":2643.956,"end":2667.252,"text":"兼任比較多所以我們介紹本會的委員就好實問虛答還是要跟各位前輩學習我不太懂這個我們先介紹傅昆齊委員林思銘委員羅志強委員謝榮介委員"},{"start":2673.575,"end":2694.948,"text":"公小林委員科建明委員吳思堯委員莊瑞雄委員鍾嘉斌委員沈發慧委員陳俊宇委員黃國昌委員好那我們接下來介紹到場的那我們就"},{"start":2700.773,"end":2722.088,"text":"第一位,立法院秘書長周萬來秘書長司法院副秘書長黃玲倫副秘書長法務部政務次長陳明堂次長那其餘請參閱名單我這邊就不再一一介紹並且列入公報記錄"},{"start":2725.883,"end":2752.948,"text":"本次議程討論事項前於第11次全體委員會議報告及詢答完畢並決議令定期繼續審查,由於今日繼續審查。首先,針對討論事項中,除前次會議已經完成之提案說明外,其餘未進行之提案說明部分,再進行委員提案說明。"},{"start":2753.988,"end":2775.763,"text":"草案案件發言時間3分鐘。那這邊就由我這邊先進行提案說明。那接下來再請翁曉琳委員賴瑞榮委員及賴氏寶委員。好。好。那就這樣好我這邊好我這邊先就程序"},{"start":2777.945,"end":2798.755,"text":"草案案件發言的部分,我想為了讓今天的會議能夠順利,那我們程序發言的部分,我希望每位委員發言一次,每次三分鐘。那請各位能夠把握這個時間,在時間內把它說明完畢。"},{"start":2805.428,"end":2822.758,"text":"主席,程序發言可以限制一次嗎?這個程序發言是在會議進行中的任何時候針對程序?我想這個主席你擔任這個召委做主席齁?你有最大的權力但是你不能夠限制程序發言"},{"start":2827.25,"end":2843.846,"text":"我想也可以不用登記啊就你們舉舉手有哪一位如果不想發言的也可以我們剛剛那個詢問那個委員會的"},{"start":2847.344,"end":2868.744,"text":"那個主席阿你不能聽那個傅昆吉總你們總召的阿這裡你最大不是他最大走出去他才是最大啦走出去他才是最大這裡你最大欸不要亂聽我們現在沒有聽任何人的說法我剛剛是直接請教委員傅昆吉現在是你的小弟在本委員他只是你的小弟好不好我們也都是我們也都是好不好"},{"start":2869.164,"end":2892.111,"text":"各位麻煩一下陳旭請大家先不要發言剛剛我們沒有聽到委員的指示我們剛剛有詢問了委員會的同仁那委員會的同仁他建議那我們現在就是就進行登記那需要發言的請來登記"},{"start":2895.896,"end":2904.219,"text":"行使法部分條文修正草案．立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草"},{"start":2922.973,"end":2949.178,"text":"草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等50人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等50人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等50人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等50人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等50人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊"},{"start":2969.06,"end":2979.107,"text":"我們因為要兼顧議事的效率所以我們依據立法院的議事規則與委員發言前我們先宣告發言的時間那每位委員發言時間是3分鐘那"},{"start":2983.747,"end":2998.324,"text":"現在登記要發言的委員有柯建民委員、鍾昭偉、沈委員、吳世耀委員、陳委員跟莊委員。那我們現在請第一位柯建民委員發言。"},{"start":3010.795,"end":3024.393,"text":"來主席各位委員同仁我想今天要審查國會改革方案是本會期重中之重也是眾所俗目全國在看待立法院怎麼處理國會改革"},{"start":3025.695,"end":3041.998,"text":"那今天我要講的一個事情就是說我給的方案是造成本會期開議到現在將近一個多月的時間朝野對立最嚴重的我們認為國外改革必須要在憲法框架底下來進行因為憲法賦予立法委員的前者是什麼"},{"start":3042.839,"end":3066.578,"text":"不能無端扣錢假監督之名而已扣錢所以這一點是最大爭點在這裡我想請副總長你要在憲法框架底下來行不要迴憲亂政這是我們的衝突點但是既然子余剛才講了兩次我們希望讓今天會議能夠順利進行但是我的個人看法民進黨版本"},{"start":3070.438,"end":3087.723,"text":"在明年以後就到副議期,換言之禮拜三、禮拜四都可以審。然後最後還有前面的董事長委員的版本,職權行使法25條也還沒併進來。歐小英委員的版本也還沒併進來,還有國民黨諸會委員。所以剛才才會講說,還有10天還沒禮拜。"},{"start":3092.972,"end":3100.83,"text":"既然這樣一個重大法案,因為我們還沒有行政人提案,所以一定是草原版本全部進來以後好好審。"},{"start":3102.293,"end":3127.675,"text":"民黨版本國會五法裏面總共修了四個法國民黨只有修一個法 職權行使法但是這裏面很多現任衝突因素在裏面我們希望就是說能夠好好的審查 責任審查到最後當然還要查好其他事務院會表決讓人民來公決看待這憲法十個倒是立法院怎麼進行我要告訴各位我們每一個人都要向憲法低頭"},{"start":3129.917,"end":3138.681,"text":"我希望今天的審查能夠如照案所談的順利進行。我們不要自來衝突。我希望第一個"},{"start":3140.322,"end":3158.879,"text":"今天只進行大體討論然後簽了版本這要發展長的時間了然後明天以後禮拜三禮拜四繼續審查我們都沒有意見所以版本進來而且要我們告訴各位今天審查的時候你看很多版本差來差去事實上我們版本還沒進來還有國民黨版本還沒進來"},{"start":3161.821,"end":3180.909,"text":"這如有審查所以從進來以後照立法院議事官吏請議事人員做好對照表然後我們主席要慢慢審查各位你們不是常常在講委員會中心主義這麼一個重大影響台灣憲政體制而且大法官5854制以後20年沒有審的"},{"start":3182.716,"end":3187.58,"text":"二）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具〈立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":3215.856,"end":3229.334,"text":"主席,在黨委員先進,其他稱呼我就省略,因為我們這個程序上的發言我這邊剛剛只是略舉在我們的會議資料上看得出他在勘應公報日期是在4月1號以後的"},{"start":3230.455,"end":3248.18,"text":"那如果按照我們剛剛確認的議事錄在我們4月1號審查會的時候呢目前關於立法委員職權行使法只有7個案子在那個時候進行由各機關列席政府機關官員做報告也當時那7個案子有由提案委員進行說明"},{"start":3249.537,"end":3277.218,"text":"那麼這其中對照到今天目前立法院職權行使法目前一共有15個案換言之包括我們召委主席吳宗憲委員在內的還有8個案有提案委員待會要進行提案說明而且我們要邀請列席的政府機關代表進行說明然後我們各委員包括本會委員跟其他的外委會委員才能夠來進行討論"},{"start":3279.119,"end":3298.726,"text":"而且這個大體討論可能要處理這個八個提案。另外我也看到在上次的提案當中只有在中華民國刑法徵定第五章之一章名等條文只有副委員一個案子但是今天我們看到又增加了包括翁曉琳委員所提的提案"},{"start":3299.406,"end":3313.118,"text":"草案,至於剛剛我修正一下剛剛所說的包括羅委員等立法委員副選院長副長辦法等上次這三個案子都已經進行提案說明已經列席的政府機關代表做回應了所以我這邊具體的"},{"start":3315.08,"end":3344.301,"text":"要在這裡建議我們的輪值主席我們的召委我們吳主席對於今天列案的這20個案當中其中立法院職權行使法有8個案子除了委員的提案說明之外還有刑法的修正案一個案子要進行委員的提案說明之外要請列席的政府機關首長官員進行充分的說明然後再由我們委員會來進行討論那我這裡也呼應我們剛剛我們的柯總召他所提到的"},{"start":3344.921,"end":3374.161,"text":"今天還有幾個案子還沒有來得及交付本委員審查其中包括委員呂玉玲等17人擬具《立法院職權行使法第15條之一條文的修正案》還有委員呂玉玲等16人擬具《立法院職權行使法增訂第28條之3及第28條之4條文草案》還有委員鄭天才等19人擬具的《立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案》單單是目前在場國民黨委員"},{"start":3375.021,"end":3396.139,"text":"包括外委會委員所提的就有3案還沒有列入今天的15個立法院職權行使法的討論當中也沒有辦法來得及編入我們的條文對照表那另外我們翁委員也有一個案子也是一樣所以有4個國民黨委員的提案沒有辦法列入到今天的條文對照表以及進行條文的提案說明那當然民進黨本黨黨團又提出了同樣的修正條文所以這5個提案我們在這裡呼籲"},{"start":3403.204,"end":3415.374,"text":"我們各黨團既然國會改革這麼重要我們是不是大家共同把這幾個案子併入到我們的委員會來審查然後另外還包括羅志強委員提到的立法院職權行使法第25條修正條文這個目前還沒有過貨一期我們也呼籲部分黨派我們都同意不複製讓羅委員的提案也能夠進入到今天本委會後續的審查當中這樣子才能完備的將國會改革社會所關切的內容"},{"start":3431.607,"end":3459.606,"text":"作充分詳實的討論。」所以要拜託主席今天是否我們的程序上我們就請上次審查會未及提案說明的委員就提案進行說明也請今天列席的政府機關代表做回應然後我們也希望在議事上的處理能夠將未來在過了明天復席之後即將可以納入的國民黨團委員的四個提案、國民黨團的一個提案還有羅志祥委員的提案都並錄到我們這個重要的委員審查以上"},{"start":3461.274,"end":3462.675,"text":"主席各位同仁"},{"start":3486.172,"end":3506.65,"text":"我想我們今天齁這個從剛剛大家剛一進來齁我們就看到這個這個雙方的這個陣容齁大家好像這個軍容壯盛啦齁那這個我們副總召齁一夫當官坐第一個位置齁指指揮我們的這個主席齁進行做醫事的進行啦齁"},{"start":3508.183,"end":3532.27,"text":"我想我們今天這些這麼多的法案其實今天我們在審查的就是一個國會的擴權法案包括我們要把總統的國情報告在憲法裡面總統的這個國情報告要把它質詢化要變成立法委員可以質詢用急問急答的方式把它變成質詢化這個質詢在憲法裡面立法委員能夠質詢的對象"},{"start":3534.071,"end":3539.975,"text":"行使法部分條文修正草案．立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．"},{"start":3559.963,"end":3579.388,"text":"那所謂國會改革呢我們民進黨也提了一套完整的國會改革的法案這個法案明天就過副議期了如果我們今天議程今天禮拜一如果好好安排其他的刑法一些其他的案件禮拜三來排我們今天的這個國民黨的國會擴權法案跟民進黨的這個國會"},{"start":3581.008,"end":3597.38,"text":"國會改革法案 兩把併在一起審查那這個就是我們應該意識上面程序上面應該要這樣處理才會讓所有的這些每一條的法案的對照我們大家都可以在這條法案審查的時候可以對照到其他委員的提案其他黨團的提案大家來共同來討論這樣不是比較有效率嗎簡單就立法效率而言也是這樣子那這個這個"},{"start":3606.325,"end":3631.677,"text":"我們能夠這樣合併審查這個版本我想這個才是我們應該主席所應該要採取的方式在這裡是真的是希望因為這個我們有關國會到底要不要擴權國會到底要不要改革這樣子的案子我們如果說這種今天一天審查會然後在這邊說不能程序發言只能一次一次發言兩分鐘一分鐘要不要30秒好了你們如果這麼急一個人發言只能30秒"},{"start":3633.001,"end":3651.015,"text":"然後這樣子搞搞搞搞搞在今天一天混亂之中然後想要把他從委員會出去這個我想恐怕我們司法法制委員會我們過去一直立法院一直希望說能夠強化我們所有委員會職權功能像這樣子的這些相關法案在委員會裡面應該經過充分的討論"},{"start":3653.51,"end":3680.34,"text":"之後才出委員會出委員會之後我本委員會的委員所提出來大家的綜合意見再由各政黨來經過各政黨協商大家再來review一遍最後由大會共同來公決這才是這個我們這個法案應該要走的程序了齁那最後齁最後我想齁這個所謂的國會改革齁有這麼多的國會改革的方案齁我們今天在審查這個法案其實說起來是有點丟臉"},{"start":3682.65,"end":3690.715,"text":"我們立法院在表決才剛發生這個記名投票的舞弊案。我們自己才發生記名投票舞弊案,然後來這裡說我們要擴權。就好像說警察才剛剛貪污被抓,結果警察局長來說我們警察要加薪。我們警察以後我們的財產都不用申報,我們警察權力要更大。"},{"start":3706.636,"end":3724.432,"text":"我們自己國會改革就應該要從我們能夠自己立法院自律自清開始我們上個禮拜的這個記名表決的舞弊案我覺得這個記名表決的舞弊案就應該是不是今天就應該把它列入我藐視國會罪裡面有立法委員如果投票"},{"start":3727.373,"end":3752.142,"text":"侮辱、帶頭、出國沒有簽到就應該要藐視國會罪一起抓去關有前科、拿不到良民證、出不了國、限制出境。對不對?時間到了我知道因為這個跟今天的議程無關啊有有關這叫做國會改革我是說投票的是無關嘛主席我今天是做一個示範我今天做個示範平常主席你也很清楚我平常發言時間到就下台"},{"start":3752.702,"end":3781.32,"text":"但是很多委員在這邊發言發言的時間6分鐘講到12分鐘主席也不制止我瞭解但是現在時間到了我想說我們就讓今天議事我們還是讓他速度快一點沒有問題啦但是我剛剛所講的這些程序的問題我希望說主席主席我們這些程序問題希望主席三思不要受這些黨團這麼多你們黨團委員坐在這裡大軍壓境不要受這個壓力謝謝好那我們接下來請吳思耀委員"},{"start":3788.064,"end":3808.212,"text":"主席各位同仁大家早安今天我們作為國會議員在這裡審查國會改革的嚴肅法案我想大家都應該收斂起這種相對比較輕蔑的態度我們在此都要非常慎重的面對憲法賦予我們的權限"},{"start":3810.033,"end":3832.124,"text":"國會改革缺一不可三件事第一程序正義第二合憲合規第三權責相符如果沒有程序正義的國會改革一路的開快車一路的飆車一路的逼迫大家上了這輛失速列車我們難以對國人交代"},{"start":3835.706,"end":3837.087,"text":"國會改革請走大道上正軌不需要為了超速而飆車所以在程序上今天有15個案要審查其實國民黨委員包括民進黨的提案"},{"start":3852.119,"end":3855.964,"text":"明天就可以經過復議期一起來列案討論在場也有我們羅志強委員我想您的案子能夠一起併進來民進黨同意不提復議就是希望任何一個委員經過深思熟慮提出來的法案"},{"start":3869.462,"end":3871.823,"text":"不會被丟包不會被遺棄我們創造每一黨每一位委員的法案有平等被審議並按審查的機會我們擔任立委都相當長的時間每一次的審議法案我們議事人員會非常辛苦的做成條文的對照表"},{"start":3891.272,"end":3901.399,"text":"如果今天事行先將15案的對照表審過未來還有可能將近10案10多案的案子要陸續併進來那這樣我們的審議會再來一次這樣的審議是欠缺效率更沒有經過對照比較而審查能夠落實它的品質所以我們主張今天大體討論那待"},{"start":3918.03,"end":3921.953,"text":"國民黨民進黨條文一併來併案來進行審議才是有效能才是有品質第二在合憲合規的部分我想我們在幾場公聽會也多次的論述立委再大也不能比憲法還大立法院想擴權也不能取代司法院監察院更不能凌駕行政權所以這些"},{"start":3947.97,"end":3951.971,"text":"違憲這些凌駕憲法的條文確實需要花長的時間來好好的跟社會一起來討論在社會的監督之下是不能開快車最後一個權責相符的國會改革是國人社會共同的期待上週五的表決舞弊"},{"start":3972.998,"end":3976.54,"text":"如果立法院沒有辦法在這件事情獲得社會的清楚調查之後釐清真相那此時此刻我們開快車來審議國會改革是喪失了國會的正當性我們再次說民主進步黨的條文版本裏面我們修了四法我們對於國會的"},{"start":3997.671,"end":3999.732,"text":"內規我們必須強化權責相符對於國會議員本身的自律以及客責會在民進黨的版本裡面充分體現而不是指優先審查今天所排案的藍白委員15個案子"},{"start":4016.94,"end":4019.542,"text":"公式職權行使法也就是擴權的條文權責相符是社會對於國會改革的期待所以請求主席一起來並案審查讓權責相符的國會改革法案能夠充分討論我再次強調不需要讓你看而壞"},{"start":4044.557,"end":4049.462,"text":"不要搭上這輛失速列車滾貨改革請要走大道上正軌好 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝委員接下來我們請陳俊宜委員發言"},{"start":4081.045,"end":4089.718,"text":"主席各位委員今天我們到場所有各單位的首長還有媒體先進大家早安"},{"start":4092.662,"end":4116.164,"text":"在我們經過一番的這個討論我個人認為是在立法院的職權主要是歸咎於我們憲法第63條立法院有議決法案還有預算案、戒嚴案、大赦案、宣戰案、構合案、條約案及國家其他重要的四項職權"},{"start":4119.252,"end":4128.635,"text":"其權限散見於我們憲法本文與徵修條文中,包括聽取總統的這個國情報告提出"},{"start":4129.744,"end":4150.195,"text":"總統副總統彈劾案與罷免案以及追認緊急命令等。那對於我們本委員會我們各位委員所提出的相關立法院職權的行使法案的條文修正我相信我們在這個過去兩週我們有舉辦了這個三場的這個公聽會"},{"start":4157.415,"end":4185.261,"text":"草案 也能夠讓我們廣大的民眾更加瞭解對於這個修正案的相關內容那聽取了許多專家學者們他們所提出的一些高見之後即便在各方的這個學倫上或是實務上可能有不同的解釋和不同的建議但總歸來說在符合我國的這個憲政體制之下以及現有的這個權利"},{"start":4186.681,"end":4195.139,"text":"分立之下來完備立法委員職權行使所需。」這應該是各黨都能夠共同努力的一個方向"},{"start":4196.457,"end":4223.482,"text":"本席作為一個新科的立委在參與這次的國會改革也抱持著戒慎的態度來面對並且也不斷的在思考社會大眾的這個視角若我作為一般的民眾對國會改革會有什麼樣的期待應該是期待可是能夠更清楚真相能夠更有效的來監督政府"},{"start":4224.693,"end":4237.643,"text":"基於權責的制衡作為立法委員的我們也應該要更加的自律而非無止盡的自我擴權影響到民眾的權益"},{"start":4239.124,"end":4257.709,"text":"那昭偉在4月3號審查在體恤就在優先的情況之下也直言不願看到我們國會這種高強度對抗在尊重多元的聲音以及傾聽不同的名義之下逐條來審查延後進行因此有機會能夠跟"},{"start":4259.329,"end":4283.456,"text":"能夠讓上週召委鍾佳濱委員加排兩場公聽會收集更多專家的學者意見本人聲表敬意所以還是希望不管是民進黨版本還是其他委員所提的版本讓所有的版本都能夠進來討論意見可以更完整審查也會更有效率以上是我本席的意見"},{"start":4286.358,"end":4288.619,"text":"謝謝主席還有我們在場所有的委員跟媒體朋友"},{"start":4306.451,"end":4325.885,"text":"主席其實你剛剛應該也去感受到了在座底下這一些政治上大家都非常有能量但是在這個節骨眼裡面我們如果很草率把這個案子噗嚨的好像企圖說把今天就把案子把它給送出去的話"},{"start":4327.306,"end":4339.998,"text":"這個在我們現在整個立法院尤其是這一次的表決發生這種狀況外界也去講說可能是不是舞弊還沒調查清楚之前這個對我們立法院的形象都是很大的一個傷害另外"},{"start":4341.667,"end":4358.884,"text":"我看我們這一次在針對整個國會改革裏面不管是主席也好、鍾佳濱主席也好兩個各個不同政黨我們也召開了這麼多場的一個公聽會從這些公聽會裏面我看在場很多委員也很多人"},{"start":4359.865,"end":4386.094,"text":"幾乎沒有,所以說這些選擇專家不同的意見到底在國會裡面,各政黨到底是不是聽進去了。所以我是這樣建議,我主席建議的是說,國民黨自己本身的版本,正天才委員的版本,呂毅林委員的版本,甚至於我們這個翁委員的版本,這麼多的委員,當然包括民進黨的版本,"},{"start":4386.574,"end":4402.025,"text":"都還沒有進來以前你查一天嘛你們到底在擠什麼那所以是不是我們今天對整個議程裡面啊就跟過去立法院在審查法案的時候哪一個不是先從大體討論先開始的然後到最後我們來宣讀條文然後把整個對照表全部弄出來啊你當作立法會人才厲害喔弄得不用對照表喔有案就開始一直審喔你在騙貴在不吃水啊這個不好啦我"},{"start":4417.196,"end":4420.198,"text":"看起來很粗啊,我告訴你,我也算法律專家。你去給現場人設條,你給現場人看看。我們叫外面的人來,我們邀請外面的人來,是說邀請啊。憲法的規定說邀請,邀請人來立法院。你現在邀請來了,不送了,還是覺得說看起來不符合我立法院這邊的這個整個的一個認知。"},{"start":4444.011,"end":4449.414,"text":"條文修正草案案。所以到底有沒有擴權的問題?憲法都寫得那麼軟,那我們立法院我們現在又來徵涉對這樣的一個藐視國會的部分,射程到底有多遠?強制手段要用什麼到什麼地步?我是覺得大家真的要善思啦。這一個議題啊,不是黨派的問題啊。這個是你把它定下去以後啊,以後不管任何,台灣民主國家嘛,"},{"start":4471.007,"end":4498.441,"text":"不可能說我們永遠都民進黨在執政嘛但問題一個法律你定下去以後你會不會去過度干涉到人民立法院真的大到這種地步喔各位你們都很有聲量啊是比民眾有聲量而已捏可是我們可以因為這個哪一個政黨哪一個政黨藍跟白我加起來人會比較多我這個案子就趕快我覺得人多就是真理我看未必"},{"start":4499.401,"end":4523.043,"text":"我看這幾個版本裡面 主席我馬上就會講完這個你以後都會碰到這種狀況我算話很少的以後你會碰到很多人一直講下去理都不理你的我10秒鐘就把它結束10秒鐘我就把它結束就是說我們在處理這種法案的時候真的不要開玩笑啦不要開玩笑啦你這個案子要怎麼說你輸下去了"},{"start":4525.358,"end":4525.678,"text":"案．一）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具"},{"start":4559.222,"end":4559.363,"text":"草案 。"},{"start":4588.301,"end":4612.775,"text":"針對本次會議程序發言及會議詢問建議停止發言行使方向,敬請公決提案事項。恭喜委員!你不是在八八好不好?你的陽謀是不可行的!不要在52年以前把這案子通過,然後叫來新的總統來!你不要忘記!這是不可行的!而且非常荒謬!為了後續你們所提的職權行使法裡面一樹五橋!"},{"start":4617.137,"end":4619.958,"text":"二）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等25人擬具〈立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":4642.876,"end":4643.476,"text":"二）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具"},{"start":4666.466,"end":4675.63,"text":"請問一下,就剛剛提出來的問題有沒有任何意義改變?有沒有?主席主席你不要,你一試在法律,你一試在法律界的陰影不要再進一口魚蛋,大家對你非常尊重吳宗憲主席主席你"},{"start":4689.936,"end":4690.616,"text":"條文修正草案案。"},{"start":4709.483,"end":4735.901,"text":"我是算幹的嗎?我跟你們說今天已經有委員提出來提案要求做停止程序發言以及會議詢問的相關事項請問各位委員有沒有不同的意見沒有是不是大家都沒有不同意見沒關係不同意的話我們現在進行表決齁那"},{"start":4738.168,"end":4748.374,"text":"我們先做好那我們現在先清點人數我們等一下做表決表決然後讓會議詢問消失喔兩個人6分鐘都不願意喔會不會太誇張阿可以這樣幹嗎"},{"start":4756.956,"end":4783.138,"text":"當場之前還是今天以後都不可以?因為我們整個會議進去以後就還會...有什麼誇張啦!會議新聞的宗教啊!宗教啊!公廟啊!對不對?一臂四十個啦!什麼清點人數?我說什麼啊?我說任何人不要輕而易不虧情,因為不是好不好?你這樣講會破成功的啦!"},{"start":4785.543,"end":4798.627,"text":"所以他們還沒有訂閱審查,你難道這幾個單人才可以成為嗎?麻煩各位先回座。麻煩各位先回座。我們五州縣委員已經讓你們開公認會了。不要再多了。不要再多了。"},{"start":4811.877,"end":4816.261,"text":"楊瓊瓊等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案。"},{"start":4837.659,"end":4866.473,"text":"所以我剛剛請議事人員唸出我們的立法院議事規則第32條會議詢問是最優先要被處置的會議詢問是最優先的程序啊主席這是主持的基本ABC啊你要讓會議詢問先完備先讓會議詢問先進行我也是讓今天能夠大家好好審"},{"start":4868.519,"end":4883.448,"text":"五中憲委員五中憲委員已經非常尊重民進黨了麻煩各位回座麻煩各位回座麻煩各位回座"},{"start":4893.695,"end":4894.816,"text":"兼職權行使法部分條文修正"},{"start":4912.878,"end":4916.562,"text":"草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等50人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等50人擬具"},{"start":4932.82,"end":4945.832,"text":"草案﹑立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案﹑立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":4955.22,"end":4956.501,"text":"條文修正草案案。"},{"start":4974.315,"end":4975.396,"text":"我已經請你們都回座了麻煩你們回座"},{"start":4995.553,"end":4997.976,"text":"如果有意義的話,我們現在進行人數清點然後來表決。就這麼簡單。這是一個民主國家。議事規則優先。"},{"start":5013.447,"end":5016.209,"text":"規律詢問規律詢問要先這是基本的程序。"},{"start":5034.166,"end":5043.294,"text":"草案﹚立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案﹚立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案﹚立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案﹚立法院職權行使法部分條文"},{"start":5061.69,"end":5061.97,"text":"草案。"},{"start":5426.996,"end":5454.187,"text":"我們現在開始開會先讓我把話說完剛剛有委員在那邊喊說這個是不符合那個議事規則我剛再三的說條文裡面有規定如果有問題的人麻煩回去多念書看一下立法院議事規則第32條我一定是依照程序處理那如果各位有誤會以為這個是違反程序的麻煩回去看一下32條的規定謝謝各位"},{"start":5458.533,"end":5482.154,"text":"我已經非常的白話了謝謝我還是再次說我個人我不喜歡高強度的對抗我希望我們這邊國會大家都在看直播不要這樣子那這樣我們現在宣告齁就是剛剛有提出要會議詢問嘛那兩位每個人三分鐘那如果不要的話我們就進行表決好不好"},{"start":5485.154,"end":5513.928,"text":"因為剛剛已經講了我跟妳講啦一個三天沒查那個啦沒查那個啦過去齁不是我跟妳說如果要說話不算話那我覺得不應該在這邊這樣子我們要說話要算話主席為什麼兩個你先走明清楚哪一個議事規則哪一個條文規定兩個沒關係議事規則如果沒有這樣的話哪一個條規定兩個人嘛因為我們剛剛講好了嗎你不要創法嘛自己創法嘛你是法律人欸"},{"start":5516.024,"end":5538.811,"text":"那每位3分鐘每位3分鐘好那個傅瑪委員好啊大家走啊大家走啊不好意思不好意思趙承旭非本會委員就是可以會議詢問啊非本會委員就是可以會議詢問這就是假的本會委員也可以會議詢問啊沒錯那個非本會委員是可以會議詢問的沒問題"},{"start":5545.458,"end":5568.589,"text":"主席啊本會委員也可以會議詢問我先講好了等下法律專家在這裡做普通做添補主席啊你是法律人你有很多法律同僚歷史界的朋友全國在看你你不要輕無於互困之餘的壓力底下"},{"start":5569.96,"end":5587.135,"text":"你好不容易到最後終於你自己引蛇出動出來你從這媒體講說已經要今天要出委員會然後跟520以前來請賴總統來做我沒有講過這句話喔我沒有講過這句話那個柯總統我給你報告我從來沒有做過這句話"},{"start":5596.263,"end":5620.969,"text":"不能這樣子,不能這樣子隨便講我我來質問一下慧鳳莎你這種楊瓊是荒謬而且不可行的各位了解立法院職權行使法第十要執行有什麼規定新任的國會必須要兩週內來立法院做報告三天前要提出書面報告你們的職權行使法第十五條怎麼寫"},{"start":5623.467,"end":5651.333,"text":"總統上任以後,一個月要來立法院做報告,及問及答,還有上面報告,你這個是完全違憲了嘛。請問,你這樣一個月有總諮詢,又有總統來及問及答,那違憲的及問及答可行嗎?修法規定很清楚欸,第四條是得啊。等一下,好,等一下,你給我多..."},{"start":5652.947,"end":5660.451,"text":"你根本不在現場你根本沒有歷史的脈絡我先把這個台語先講清楚請問你在這個時候要總統來要行政院長來你到底指出什麼"},{"start":5677.282,"end":5698.514,"text":"草案規定很清楚啊!行政院是國家最大行政機關,行政院是國家第三條,規定很清楚啊!總統總統有任命行政院長,行政院長要來立法院做時任報告,被刑。立法院的職權是錢,這樣很清楚。總統總統是明顯的,你們大家也是明顯的。總統總統實地行政院長真的還給你被刑的啊!何來執行總統呢?因為憲法上掌握通啦!"},{"start":5699.534,"end":5714.87,"text":"所以各位要了解你們看你自己的版本怎麼寫你知道楊瓊瓊根本在違憲我希望今天剛才委員長委員講得很好他說你要委員再怎麼大也不可以比修法大"},{"start":5716.271,"end":5733.68,"text":"我們都要向憲法低頭這是一個非常嚴肅的現今時刻至於有關於中共來立法院立法院做國民報告的時候要不要舉文舉答這歷史上我曾經讓大家跟我聊這個二選30年來沒有一個總統可以進來立法院舉文舉答"},{"start":5736.661,"end":5737.302,"text":"條文修正草案案。"},{"start":5752.734,"end":5760.879,"text":"要叫立法院委員被出,叫整個立法院委員被出,當然你們反對啊,所以你除非要極限期待來,這個就是公安庭務,這政治上的公安庭務從而是一個假議題,因為沒有公安庭務才會達不到。"},{"start":5768.223,"end":5768.323,"text":"審查委員"},{"start":5786.096,"end":5786.696,"text":"事務委員長"},{"start":5808.018,"end":5813.019,"text":"條文修正草案．立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．立法院職權行使法部分條文修正"},{"start":5835.123,"end":5835.664,"text":"條文修正草案案"},{"start":5858.496,"end":5859.017,"text":"條文修正草案案"},{"start":5873.98,"end":5881.145,"text":"結果你公司都不開,後來這種主張才開公司,開一場,後來中央這邊要補兩場,我可以承認,我們盡量提問。我們感謝各位的尊重,我們才沒有強制一個表決,沒有任何的,雙方和諧,那如果說要破壞雙方講好的規矩的話,那我們現在有強硬的方式嗎?"},{"start":5904.84,"end":5914.502,"text":"大於討論,然後把版本唸完,然後明年以後把所有版本併進來,叫議員一致的言,叫這照表做出來。各位,這麼重大...可以啊,還有聲音喔,還有聲音喔,聲音要來來來。欸,安能奧北七啊?"},{"start":5939.821,"end":5941.842,"text":"非常非常非常謝謝柯總召謝謝謝謝不過那個不好意思喔柯總召我從來沒有講過520這件事情我有看到報紙報導說你講我這樣但是我從來沒有講過這句話"},{"start":5969.312,"end":5972.233,"text":"我從來沒有講過這句話,那我必須在這邊先說明請問還有其他會議詢問嗎?好,那就我們好,我們下一位請省委員"},{"start":5999.674,"end":6014.025,"text":"沈博洋第一次發言那剛剛這個會議詢問其實在場就只有我跟李博弈會員那這個時候說真的如果表決應該都可以超過我們兩個發言的時間說真的我一個人在這邊講三分鐘應該也不會造成什麼那麼大的一個傷害"},{"start":6014.565,"end":6029.55,"text":"草案,希望以後呢,雖然是可以用表決的一個方式,但是希望能夠尊重我們立法委員每一個人的發言權利。那第一個事情我要提到的就是,這一個法案其實呢,要被強行通過最早是在4月3號的時候。4月3號的時候那天我就已經準備好大量的資料,"},{"start":6030.39,"end":6056.568,"text":"條文修正草案案件事項及大體討論,因為那天發生了地震,所以才沒有繼續下去,然後也才有了上個禮拜的各式各樣的公聽會。所以大家可以知道其實這些公聽會有那麼多的學者,那麼多的學者對於我們現在目前有的版本有提出那麼多的疑慮,所以在那麼多的疑慮之下還要通過這樣的一個法律其實非常有問題的,這是第一點。第二點就是很多人一直在講說"},{"start":6057.449,"end":6086.028,"text":"他們拿的是民進黨以前2012、2016等等的版本請搞清楚一件事情就是這一些法案為什麼能夠在這一次那麼快的提出來其實很明顯就是想要在520之前通過那為什麼要在520之前通過是可能想要給新政府難看還是要做什麼事情這種政治操作我不是很了解但非常重要的一件事情就是就是因為它太早被提出來了所以它的版本不但非常的凌亂而且完全沒有遵守法律的原則"},{"start":6086.969,"end":6103.844,"text":"一天到晚說是要國會的調查權大家要知道在今天我們要討論國會立法院的職責的時候我們有質詢我們有調查我們有調閱我們有各式各樣不同的版本那今天呢被提出了藐視國會罪請問藐視國會罪是針對質詢還是針對調查還是針對調閱還是針對彈劾這個版本根本就完全不清楚"},{"start":6112.691,"end":6128.605,"text":"免罪國會罪本身是一個有刑責的犯罪我就問在那麼重要的一個犯罪的定定我們邀請了多少位刑法的學者來告訴大家能不能夠定這個免罪國會罪很多人還利用美國的版本來討論美國沒有質詢"},{"start":6132.088,"end":6155.302,"text":"在沒有質詢的狀況之下那你要怎麼去把美國的國會的調查直接放到這邊更不要講說這些版本還莫名其妙跑出所謂的聽證聽證調查不分聽證調閱也不分聽證跟質詢的競合關係也不分在那麼凌亂的一個法律之下現在就想要把它通過這完全是一個法治國家的悲哀"},{"start":6155.882,"end":6173.323,"text":"所以我在這邊做這個會議詢問最主要的目的就是要告訴大家目前這些版本這種毀憲亂政的版本如果被通過的話我們台灣一直以來做了那麼多民主的外交告訴大家我們的民主多麼的蓬勃結果過了這樣的法案簡直是笑掉國際的大牙"},{"start":6173.743,"end":6174.564,"text":"法制國家絕對不能接受的事情。謝謝。好,謝謝各位"},{"start":6197.284,"end":6199.426,"text":"主席,你要說明清楚玩這一套是什麼意思?"},{"start":6224.767,"end":6227.15,"text":"講好的東西不要自己打臉自己的嘴巴主席不要情緒發言"},{"start":6243.966,"end":6272.582,"text":"組勤不要情緒發言大家理性重要的議案不要情緒發言還有嗎還有一位啊李柏毅我們剛說的兩位還有一位是不是不好意思不好意思不要講我們剛講兩位就兩位不要再跟我說了沒有不要再跟我講這個了好來那個我們接下來請李柏毅委員立法院長也沒有這麼大說不要跟我講這個"},{"start":6285.14,"end":6308.245,"text":"謝謝謝謝熱鬧的司法法制我很意外在只有一個黨團兩個黨團的版本之下民進黨黨團版本還沒進來的時候硬要來辦這個硬要來審這個法案那我也很好奇在座的媒體朋友們如果審出來的這個國會改革版本通通違憲"},{"start":6309.778,"end":6322.988,"text":"如果到時候大法官宣告通通違憲請問這一個會期的司法法制委員會審出來的東西未來大家會怎麼看這一屆的司法法制委員會的委員們還有今天的會議"},{"start":6324.708,"end":6353.504,"text":"所以說剛我們民眾黨團所有的程序發言也很清楚認為這個程序還沒有完備認為必須要在綜合各黨團的意見以及修改的條文的對照之後再來做一個比較完整性的討論當然我們也不能在憲法不能抵觸憲法下的這些修法包含急著要讓520的總統就任以後急著來讓立法院"},{"start":6354.42,"end":6378.4,"text":"用可能是違憲的版本來質詢未來的總統用可能是違憲的版本來套在所有可能來立法院被質詢的人身上未來會是一個很大很大的笑話那我們曾經都在學校上過憲法課我相信立委也應該要上憲法課啊那如果我們修出來的內容違憲"},{"start":6381.032,"end":6382.273,"text":"行使法部分條文修正草案案。"},{"start":6394.266,"end":6415.854,"text":"修出來的版本是違憲那未來經過釋憲之後那這個是違憲的版本請問在場的委員們如果沒有提出反對意見或如果沒有提出相關對應的意見的如果支持這些違憲的版本的是不是全部我們都應該去上憲法課我在這邊鄭重的必須要提出來在場當然也有這個憲法的老師也沒有講半句話"},{"start":6423.493,"end":6438.385,"text":"我們如果提出來這些違憲的版本是不是要進行修憲那如果不修憲的話要進行這些違背憲法的這些討論的話我們在這邊提出來每個人都要對歷史負責每個立法委員也都必須要對歷史負責"},{"start":6440.154,"end":6460.159,"text":"那所以在今天的這個司法法制委員會的這個修正案裡面缺了民進黨的版本我們是建議說希望可以等民進黨版本進來之後大家一起做一個大體的討論之後再來做這一些相關的討論以上來這邊提出建議我時間還沒到"},{"start":6470.204,"end":6497.056,"text":"謝謝李委員接下來我們就針對討論事項中主前室會已經完成的提案之外其餘未進行的提案說明部分再進行委員提案說明發言時間是3分鐘現在由提案委員吳宗憲進行說明"},{"start":6499.631,"end":6519.554,"text":"草案提案說明現在請吳宗憲委員提案說明然後柯建民說是權益問題到底民進黨團都沒有內部共識時間3分鐘好請吳宗憲委員"},{"start":6529.995,"end":6530.816,"text":"條文修正草案案"},{"start":6549.913,"end":6551.174,"text":"請尊重提案人發言權請尊重提案人發言"},{"start":6573.626,"end":6584.193,"text":"行使法部分條文修正草案．立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．立法院職權行使法部分條"},{"start":6602.711,"end":6603.432,"text":"條文修正草案案"},{"start":6610.613,"end":6636.365,"text":"來請我們吳宗憲委員發言謝謝主席謝謝我現在主要的提案我想說我已經講過非常多次了那國會改革其實我們是希望說讓人民能夠有知的權利啦所以我們這次提出來我有我自己版本的調查權還有調查權的範圍是不限於文件那還有調查權的法治化另外我們也要再也有提到聽證權的部分那"},{"start":6637.864,"end":6662.905,"text":"我想今天我要提的這個法案我們已經講過非常多次了那我在這邊先各位報告一件事情這個世界上我們中華民國是唯一五權分立的國家沒有錯但是不管在三權分立國家或五權分立國家行政權永遠要向立法權負責也就是說立法院本來依照憲政體制就是要監督行政院"},{"start":6665.03,"end":6677.945,"text":"這個沒有任何問題的那你今天什麼叫做毀憲亂政你行政權你不監督你立法院不監督行政權你就幫行政權護航擦脂抹粉監督在野黨這個才叫毀憲亂政"},{"start":6680.888,"end":6708.302,"text":"所以我一直覺得這段時間我聽到非常人喊毀憲亂政毀憲亂政那請問三權分立國家跟五權分立國家的立法院都是在監督行政院怎麼會到這裡來就變成立法院不應該監督行政院立法院反而常常在幫行政院護航常常在幫行政院監督在野黨這個才叫毀憲亂政不要跟我講說什麼這麼做毀憲亂講一些枝微末節的事情"},{"start":6709.122,"end":6727.707,"text":"五權分立的憲政體制之下立法權該做什麼都做不到這個才叫毀憲亂政我想我今天我提出來的東西我沒有非常強硬我非常多次我在公開的場合我也講過了我的東西一點都不強硬反而是相對溫和的提案"},{"start":6728.84,"end":6751.249,"text":"那我不懂為什麼動不動就給我們灌一個毀線亂證這個名詞上去拜託羅茲罪名也要用動動頭腦把人家羅茲罪名啊怎麼都用膝蓋反射的方式都不用經過大腦就直接急神經就急著急著神經直接反射然後就說你講了什麼法案跟我不一樣你就是毀線亂證你講的事情跟我不一樣那你就是中共同路人"},{"start":6752.185,"end":6770.26,"text":"政治怎麼會玩得這麼廉價我到這裡來各位各位都是政治前輩都是我尊敬的對象立法委員也是這個社會上面尊敬的職業大家都非常羨慕那怎麼會我今天到這裡來面對這麼多前輩動不動扣我們的帽子那我再想我再主張一次"},{"start":6771.081,"end":6790.397,"text":"不管三權分立國家或五權分立國家立法權就是該監督行政權這個才叫做憲政體制絕對不是大家講那些枝微末節的憲政體制我在這邊跟大家再次呼籲這是我念法律以來一直心中沒有變過的見解好謝謝各位"},{"start":6805.122,"end":6807.182,"text":"行使法部分條文修正草案案。"},{"start":6817.1,"end":6845.428,"text":"主席和各位委員大家好我想今天針對這個國會改革的提案其實過去這段時間已經討論了非常久我們從2月1號就任立法委員以來其實民進黨就非常清楚知道本黨團以及民眾黨黨團我們一定會推出國會改革法案可是他們遲遲不動作那麼動不動就說我們現在所提出來的國會改革法案是"},{"start":6846.448,"end":6847.769,"text":"擬具 «立法院職權行使法部分條文修正"},{"start":6864.258,"end":6880.298,"text":"我曾如我剛所說的其實國會改革法案的這件事情從20年前585號解釋大法官585號解釋做成之後其實就已經清楚的談到立法院是有調查權的那麼"},{"start":6881.639,"end":6898.01,"text":"這個調查權必須要法制化可是已經晚了20年這個調查權到目前為止都沒有法制化這是立法院的代過多那麼我們現在我們是希望能夠趕快要不僅是開特快車我認為要開高鐵趕快把這個法制不備的狀況"},{"start":6904.794,"end":6910.556,"text":"讓他填補起來我們必須要積極的去推動國會改革法案那麼不像民進黨他們現在所做的就是停車完全不去推任何的國會改革法案遲遲這個不去推動那麼一直到下個之後才會提案那麼這個案子是不能夠再拖延"},{"start":6927.81,"end":6938.951,"text":"我必須說國會改革法案他是捍衛民眾的知的權利而不是保護官員不說話以及說謊的權利這個部分是非常的清楚"},{"start":6940.16,"end":6944.222,"text":"草案案件事宜﹑立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案件事宜﹑立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案件事"},{"start":6969.884,"end":6994.046,"text":"改革法案特別涉及到這個藐視國會罪的相關的處罰那麼這個部分已經在我的這個法案的第25條裡面清楚的已經說明因為我們除了科語藐視國會的官員有相關的行政處罰以及這個官員我們甚至還可以經過院會決議移送監察院依法辦理之外另外對於情節重大的話還可以移送司法機關來"},{"start":6996.268,"end":7020.504,"text":"審理。」所以我這裡又另外再提出了有關於相關的刑法的罪責的案子。所以這個部分的話請一併參考。謝謝。好,謝謝。賴瑞榮委員有沒有在場?沒有。賴世保委員有沒有在場?都沒有。好,那..."},{"start":7028.832,"end":7054.999,"text":"那個聯署人可以那哪一位要發言有聯署的來發言沒有聯署的請不要上台我再請宗嘉斌上場他可以副委託給我謝謝柯總召我這邊是主席我來就好謝謝柯總召我再請他上場請問宗嘉斌委員你是聯署人嗎"},{"start":7057.513,"end":7075.422,"text":"真的會讓國人看笑掉大牙我們民眾黨團這樣子搞真的會讓國人覺得非常的荒謬沒有任何的準備然後就直接來拖延技術性杯葛這就是民進黨團今天的陽謀啊真的是太好笑了"},{"start":7077.644,"end":7097.483,"text":"來主席我來代為說明這樣一個議案我在這裡非常的遺憾我聽到我們的召委那您堪稱法律專家那您剛剛的發言提案說明裡頭居然提到說立法委員不管是五權分立或三權分立就要監督這是廢話"},{"start":7098.544,"end":7105.049,"text":"我們每一天都在認真監督不管三權分立或是五權分立依據憲法的授權監督是國會之職責而且我們依憲法所授權的合理的範圍我們來進行我們的監督權限"},{"start":7117.358,"end":7137.468,"text":"我請主席應該回去把憲法63條有關於立法院的監督權憲法63條ABC的基本前提好好地閱讀一次。憲法63條規範立法院有議決法律案、預算案、戒嚴案"},{"start":7138.328,"end":7149.611,"text":"大赦案、宣降案、構合案、條約案及國家其他重要事項之權。這就是憲法賦予國會的監督權限。國會也依據憲法的精神在憲法所賦予的監督範圍裡頭每一天我們都在理性監督。"},{"start":7160.453,"end":7163.315,"text":"非常遺憾國民黨的委員一再扣帽子一再貼標籤只要不支持國民黨的國會擴權的版本就說民進黨反對國會監督這是非常離譜的扣帽子這是非常離譜的貼標籤今天在審查國會改革為什麼"},{"start":7186.092,"end":7188.754,"text":"我們認為國民黨的擴權版本其其以為不可就是在很多的權限立法院除了自己的監督權都扮演不好的前提之下還要過當的擴權同時去擔任法官要取代司法院的權利"},{"start":7207.446,"end":7209.407,"text":"還有委員說要制定監察委員行為法要當起監察委員或是管束監察委員獲勝者有國民黨的委員提案要有立法院可以任免行政官員之權"},{"start":7224.952,"end":7226.553,"text":"這些樣樣像像就是毀線就是違線立法委員當然要監督監督請回到憲法授權的範圍我再說一次立委再大"},{"start":7241.721,"end":7242.963,"text":"草案 也不能比憲法更大。立委再了不起也不要貪心貪婪的要取代司法院、取代監察院、取代行政院的權限。所以我在"},{"start":7256.798,"end":7261.64,"text":"草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員傅崐萁等52人擬具"},{"start":7274.766,"end":7280.272,"text":"協助也請公正的主持議事讓所有的委員版本黨團版本並按審查提升審查的效能提升審查的品質我不曉得國民黨委員在害怕什麼"},{"start":7293.166,"end":7296.728,"text":"你們的職權行使法跟民進黨的版本並在一起被比較、被檢視。你們害怕什麼?你們擔心你們的版本跟民進黨的版本一起經過社會的檢視會不堪的被發現你們違反憲法社的誤導。"},{"start":7315.377,"end":7319.043,"text":"我們現在休息五分鐘,謝謝各位"},{"start":7860.554,"end":7879.808,"text":"我們現在會議開始現在提案說明已經完畢了那我們現在開始進行討論事項那我們先請議事人員就討論事項各案的提案條文一併宣讀宣讀後再進行討論宣讀時間大約60分鐘"},{"start":7887.677,"end":7903.868,"text":"那如有修正動議也一併宣讀好請宣讀第一案立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案台灣民眾黨黨團提案第二條第一項及第二項未修正申訂第三項"},{"start":7905.632,"end":7930.78,"text":"一向開議日,黨團協商無法達成共識,使應及由院長召集全院委員參話會,依各黨團所提示議程草案表決定之。委員翁曉琳等提案第15條,除第一項條文中無記名投票表決修正為記名投票表決外其餘未修正。委員傅崐萁等提案第15條之一。主席啊,依照議事慣例齁,一定是待議討論完畢以後再簽入條文吧。是這樣的啊。"},{"start":7938.001,"end":7962.118,"text":"第三項規定應於每年2月1日前向立法院送交國情報告,並於3月1日前赴立法院進行國情報告,新任總統應於就職兩週內向立法院送交國情報告,並於3月1日前附立法院進行國情報告,並於3月1日前附立法院進行國情報告,並於3月1日前附立法院進行國情報告,並於3月1日前附立法院進行國情報告,並於3月1日前附立法院進行國情報告,並於3月1日前附立法院進行國情報告,並於3月1日前附立法院進行國情報告,並於3月1日前附立法院進行國情報告,並於3月"},{"start":7967.97,"end":7996.553,"text":"除第一項後段修正為立法院應於每年集會時邀請總統至立法院進行國情報告,總統不得拒絕,其予同委員傅崐萁等提案。委員吳宗憲等提案第15條之一,第一項未修正,增訂第二項及第二項,總統應於每年2月1日以前將國情報告書送交立法院,並知請立法院同意後於3月1日以前至立法院進行國情報告,"},{"start":7998.655,"end":8009.527,"text":"新就任總統應於就職兩週內向立法院提出國情報告書並咨請立法院同意後與一個月內之立法院進行國情報告。"},{"start":8011.667,"end":8032.325,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團提案第15條之二除第一項倒數第二具修正為就總統職權相關之國家大政方針其餘未修正委員傅崐萁等提案第15條之二除第一項倒數第二具修正為就國家安全大政方針和重要政策議題"},{"start":8034.229,"end":8062.791,"text":"以外其餘未修正委員翁曉琳等提案第15條之二除第一項後段修正為就國家安全大政方針和重要政策議題聽取總統國情報告總統不得拒絕其餘未修正委員賴日榮等提案第15條之二除第一項三除條文中由程序委員會排定議程等文字第二項第二具具首得資請修正為得每年資請外其餘未修正"},{"start":8064.451,"end":8082.237,"text":"委員吳宗憲等提案第15條之二除第一項條文中就國家安全大政方針後增訂和重要政策議題等文字第二項條文中國家大政方針後增訂和重要政策議題等文字外其餘未修正"},{"start":8084.622,"end":8104.08,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團提案第15條之四立法委員與總統國情報告完畢後得就報告部明瞭處提出問題並由總統依序及時答覆就前項立法委員發言時間人數順序政黨比例等事項由黨團協商決定委員傅崐萁等提案第15條之四"},{"start":8105.791,"end":8122.916,"text":"立法委員於總統國情報告完畢後得就報告部分條處提出口頭或書面問題。立法委員進行前項口頭提問時,總統應接受及時詢答其發言時間、人數、順序、政黨比例等事項由黨團協商決定。立法委員提出第一項書面問題時,總統應於7日內以書面回覆。"},{"start":8126.957,"end":8139.414,"text":"委員翁曉琳等提案第15條之4同委員傅君祺等提案委員胡宗憲等提案第15條之4立法委員與總統國情報告完畢後得了就報告部門要處提出頭頭質詢或書面問題"},{"start":8143.26,"end":8168.617,"text":"立法委員進行前項口頭諮詢時經總統同意時得即時答覆或得綜合再做補充報告總統對於未及答覆部分於20日內已書面報告但事項涉及過廣者得延長5日立法委員就第一項之發言時間人數順序政黨比例等事項由黨團協商決定立法委員提出第一項書面問題時總統於20日內已書面回覆"},{"start":8173.78,"end":8191.186,"text":"委員吳宗憲等嫡案第17條第一項第二項未修正增訂第三項行政院各部會首長新任之官員經全體委員三分之一以上之聯署或副議由院會議決得就其人士進行聽證該程序適用本法第九章之一並備質詢"},{"start":8194.107,"end":8221.725,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團提案第25條第一項未修正第二項及第三項修正為被執行人除未避免國防外交明顯力及之危害或依法應秘密之事項者並經主席同意者外不得拒絕答覆亦不得於答覆時隱匿資訊或為虛偽之答覆被執行人違反前二項規定者主席得予制止並得要求被執行人為真實且完全之答覆"},{"start":8223.581,"end":8246.996,"text":"委員楊瓊瓔等提案第二十五條除第二項增訂默劇亦不得隱匿或虛偽陳述令增訂第四項。依立法院各委員會組織法第八條規定列席委員會會議人員所為答詢準用本條規定其餘未修正委員翁曉琳等提案第二十五條除第一項增訂默劇違反者主席得予制止。"},{"start":8247.898,"end":8265.762,"text":"第二項默劇修正為不得拒絕答覆提供資料作虛偽不實陳述或有其他藐視國會之行為第三項修正為被執行非經立法院院會或各委員會之同意不得缺席增訂第四項至第六項"},{"start":8267.43,"end":8280.905,"text":"違反第一項之第三項規定者由主席或執行委員提議,出席委員二人以上聯署或附議經院會決議,處備執行員二萬元至十萬元以下罰還,並得限期改正,預期不改正者"},{"start":8281.912,"end":8308.025,"text":"草案次連續處罰違反第一項至第三項規定之政府官員由主席或執行員提議出席為二人以上聯署或附議經院會決議移送監察院依法辦理違反第一項至第三項規定且情節重大者由主席或執行員提議出席為二人以上聯署或附議經院會決議移送司法機關辦理其餘未修正為吳宗憲等提案第25條"},{"start":8309.798,"end":8333.062,"text":"除第一項默劇增訂反質詢或就委員所詢事項區委陳述第三項默劇修正委主席應立即制止並要求據實答覆增訂第四項及第五項被質詢人違反第一項規定經主席制止且要求無效者得經全體委員三分之一以上之連署"},{"start":8333.722,"end":8339.769,"text":"草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓊等52人擬具〈立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．事由．一）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓊等52人擬具〈立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．事由．一．繼續審查委員楊瓊瓊等52人擬具"},{"start":8356.167,"end":8379.073,"text":"移送懲戒議案於監察院,由監察院認為有其鎖定情勢後移送懲戒法院審理,不符第四項第一款制裁定者,得為抗告。抗告中應暫停執行,各審及受理法院應於一個月內審結其餘未修正。"},{"start":8381.704,"end":8407.969,"text":"委員吳宗憲等提案第26條除第一項具末增定行政院院長應故不能出席時應經立法院院會同意令增定第二項及第三項各部會首長政府官員應親自出席立法院各委員會備詢應故不能出席者應於開會前簡送必要請假之理由並經該次委員會召集委員同意前兩項應之立院會或委員會備詢者未經同意而不出席"},{"start":8408.829,"end":8429.383,"text":"或有其他藐視國會之行為,得經院會或各委員會決議,為不受歡迎人物於該會期內,被經院會決議取消,不得進入院會或該委員會,情節重大者,得經全體委員三分之以上之聯署或副議由院會議決,於該會期停止審查當事者"},{"start":8430.484,"end":8441.711,"text":"主管業務之法律案預算案或其他議案區域維修正。台灣民眾黨黨團提案第29條立法院議憲法第104條憲法徵修條文第5條第1項第6條第2項第7條第2項或法院組織法第66條第2項第4項行使同意權使不僅討論交付全院委員會審查"},{"start":8453.098,"end":8481.746,"text":"審查後提出院會以記名投票表決經全體立法院二分之一致同意為通過立法院依法律行使前項所定以外致同意全實不幸討論交付相關委員會審查審查後提出院會以記名投票表決經超過全體立法院二分之一致同意為通過前二項全院委員會或相關委員會致審查致交付審查日期期間不得少於兩個月並因於院會表決之日10日前提出審查意見報告"},{"start":8484.113,"end":8503.826,"text":"委員傅崐萁等提案第二十九條立法院一憲法第104條憲法徵修條文第五條第一項第六條第二項第七條第二項規定行使同意權時不經討論交付全任委員會審查審查後提出委員會以盡名投票表決。竟超過全體立法院二分之一之同意為通過。"},{"start":8505.646,"end":8521.157,"text":"立法院依法律規定行使前項規定以外之人事同意權時,不經討論交付相關委員會審查。審查後提出院會以記名投票表決,經超過全體立法院二分之一之同意為通過。前兩項人事同意權案交付全院委員會或相關"},{"start":8522.398,"end":8541.778,"text":"委員會審查期間不得少於1個月且因應於審查過程中舉行聽證會邀集相關學者專家公民團體及社會公認人士共同參與審查委員翁曉琳等提案第29條除倒數第二具吳季明投票修正為季明投票以外其餘未修正委員吳宗憲等提案第29條"},{"start":8543.717,"end":8552.079,"text":"立法院一憲法第104條或憲法徵修條文第五條第一項第六條第二項第七條第二項法院處置法第六十六條及一"},{"start":8553.103,"end":8572.557,"text":"依據中央行政機關組織基準法第21條第一項但書行使同意權時不經討論交付全院委員會審查審查後提出院會以記名投票表決經超過全體立法委員二分之一之同意為通過立法院依法律規定行使前項規定以外之人士同意權時不經討論交付相關委員會審查"},{"start":8574.759,"end":8589.094,"text":"審查後提出院會以記名投票表決經超過全體立法委員二分之一之出席並經超過出席委員二分之一之同意為通過前兩項全院委員會或交付相關委員會審查期間不得少於二個月"},{"start":8590.956,"end":8607.394,"text":"且因於審查過程中舉行聽證會邀集相關學者專家公民團體及社會公正人士共同參與審查並因於院會表決之日7日前擬具審查報告其聽證會程序另依法律定制"},{"start":8609.124,"end":8626.136,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團提案第29條之一被提名人之學歷經歷等資格證明文件以及著作財產稅務及刑案紀錄表等相關資料應由提案機關於提名時並提交立法院秘書長應將前項資料資格證明文件及相關資料"},{"start":8628.738,"end":8640.189,"text":"草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．一）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．一）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．一）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．一）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文�"},{"start":8655.874,"end":8679.879,"text":"相關資料之同時提出結文並應於結文內記載以據實答覆,決無逆視偵檢並以提出相關資料,決無隱匿資料或提供虛偽資料,但就特定問題之答覆及資料之提出如有刑事適用法所定,得拒絕證言之事由並提出書面示明者不在此限。"},{"start":8682.594,"end":8705.102,"text":"委員吳宗憲等提案第29條之一被提名人之學歷經歷財產稅務刑案紀錄表及其他審查所需之相關資料應由提名機關於提名後7日內提供立法院參考。立法院各黨團或為參加黨團之委員得以書面要求被提名人答覆與其資格及適任性有關之問題並提出相關之資料。"},{"start":8706.238,"end":8720.671,"text":"與被提名人之準備時間不得少於10日,處有行政訴訟法第144條至第146條規定,得拒絕證言之事項外,被提名人應據實為完全陳述並提供相關資料不得隱匿或虛偽陳述。"},{"start":8722.432,"end":8739.755,"text":"全院委員會或交付相關委員會之審查涉及個人資料保護法所定被提名人個人資料之使用者是為符合該法第16條第二款及第20條第一項第二款所定之增進公共利益所必要之事由"},{"start":8742.762,"end":8765.688,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團提案第29條之二委員會於進行第30條所定審查與詢問程序前應舉行公聽會並得邀請政府人員、學者專家、民間團體代表及其他社會上有關係人員出席陣營表達意見並提供相關資料委員會就前項之公聽會得請立法院知請總統或函請提名機關"},{"start":8767.878,"end":8786.049,"text":"通知被提名人列席說明。被提名人說明完畢後,受邀出席之學者專家及民間團體代表,得經會議主席同意後,就說明部門聯繫處提出問題,由被提名人綜合答覆。公定會之陣營意見及提出之相關資料委員會與審查時應予參酌。"},{"start":8793.578,"end":8815.468,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團提案第30條除第一項首具聚首全院二字三除令第二具條文中自請總統後增訂或函請提案機關等文字令增訂第二項及第三項被提名人有恕忍者前項之說明與答覆"},{"start":8816.705,"end":8838.027,"text":"與答詢應個別為之,被提名人列席說明,與答詢前應當場拒絕,並於結文內記載當據實答覆,決無逆視偵檢等予,但就特定問題之答覆如有繩之自動法所定,得拒絕證言之事有,並當場示明者不在此現。"},{"start":8839.048,"end":8860.398,"text":"第4項由原第二項條文第1並將條文中全院委員會於必要時得就,修正為全院委員會應就。委員傅崐萁等提案第30條被提名人之學歷經歷財產稅務刑案記錄表及其他審查所趨之相關資料,應由提名機關於提名後7日內送交立法院參考。"},{"start":8861.553,"end":8879.321,"text":"全院委員會就被提名人之資格及是否是任之相關事項進行審查與詢問由立法院自請總統或函請被提名機關通知被提名人列席說明與答詢被提名人有訴人者前項之說明與答詢處分應分"},{"start":8883.752,"end":8905.939,"text":"被提名人有數人者前向之說明與答詢應分別為之。委員吳宗憲等提案第30條,全院委員會或交付相關委員會應就被提名人之資格及是否是任職相關事項進行審查與詢問,由立法院轉請提名機關通知被提名人分開或一併列席說明與答詢。"},{"start":8908.359,"end":8936.178,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團提案第30條之一被提名人拒絕依第29條之一第三項規定答詢問題或提出相關資料拒絕依該條第五項規定提出結文或拒絕依前條第三項規定拒絕者委員會應不予審查並報告院會被提名人違反第29條之一第五項或前條第三項規定予提出結文或拒絕後答覆不實"},{"start":8939.86,"end":8962.273,"text":"虛偽資料者委員會應賦予審查並報告院會。今院會決議者得處新台幣50萬元以下之罰還,前項罰還案件之處理,存用行政程序法及行政執行法之規定,受處分者如有不符得於處分送達之次其二個月內向高等行政法院提起行政訴訟。"},{"start":8964.059,"end":8984.232,"text":"委員傅崐萁等提案第30條之一,前條所定之答詢處有行政程序法第144條之第146條規定得拒絕證言之事項外,被提名人應據實為完全陳述並提供相關資料不得隱匿或虛偽不實陳述,違反前項規定者,依藐視國會規定處理。"},{"start":8987.074,"end":9009.759,"text":"委員吳宗憲等提案第30條之一被提名人違反第29條之一第三項規定於虛偽陳述或提出內容虛偽不實之資料者得經院會決議為下列處置一移送監察院依法提出糾正就舉或彈劾二含請高等行政法院處新台幣100萬元以下之罰還台灣民眾黨黨團提案第31條"},{"start":9017.042,"end":9039.2,"text":"同意權行使之結果由立法院資付總統或回覆提名機關。如被提名人未獲同意,總統或提名機關應另提他人資請立法院同意。委員傅崐萁等提案第31條對照台灣民眾黨黨團提案,除第二具條文中回覆修正為含附外其餘同台灣民眾黨黨團提案。"},{"start":9041.241,"end":9060.329,"text":"委員吳宗憲等提案第31條同意選行使之結果由立法院回覆提名機關如被提名人未獲同意提名機關應令提他人送請立法院同意委員翁曉琳等提案第44條除將條文中吳季明投票表決修正為季明投票表決外其余未修正"},{"start":9061.397,"end":9079.763,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團提案第8章章明聽證調查與文件調閱委員傅崐萁等提案第8章章明調查權之行使委員吳宗憲等提案第8章章明調查權之行使台灣民眾黨黨團提案第45條立法院今院會決議"},{"start":9081.463,"end":9094.814,"text":"德社聽證調閱委員會或經委員會之決議德社聽證調閱專案小組要求與特定案有關之政府機關法人人民團體及社會上有關系人員到會備詢並提供參考資料。"},{"start":9097.936,"end":9118.642,"text":"聽證調閱委員會以院長為主席院長因事故不能出席時以副院長為主席院長副院長均因事故不能出席時由出席委員互推一人為主席聽證調閱專案小組由設置小組至該委員會委員互選一人為召集人負責處理專案小組事務聽證調閱委員會或聽證調閱專案小組於必要時"},{"start":9123.283,"end":9149.151,"text":"德經院會之決議向有關機關調閱前項議案涉及事項之文件原本。委員傅崐萁等提案第45條立法院為有效行使建法所賦予之職權德經院會決議涉調查委員會或經委員會之決議涉調查專案小組對相關議案或職權有重大關聯事項行使調查權及調閱權"},{"start":9151.492,"end":9168.314,"text":"調查委員會於必要時得就特定事項委任立法委員以外之人員組成特別調查委員會協助調查之其組織及運作等事項另以法律定之。調查委員會得要求有關機關就特定議案涉及"},{"start":9169.295,"end":9186.203,"text":"事項提供參考資料並得舉行聽證,要求有關人員出席提供證言及資料、物件。聽證相關事項依第九章之規定,前項調查委員會之名稱,調查事項目的、方法及成員人數由院會議決之。"},{"start":9188.624,"end":9210.624,"text":"委員楊瓊瓔等提案第45條,立法院經院會或經委員會之決議,得要求有關機關法人、人民團體或個人就特定議案涉及事項提供參考資料,院會或各委員會於必要時得經院會或委員會之決議,向有關機關調閱前項議案涉及事項之文件原本。"},{"start":9212.062,"end":9227.108,"text":"委員吳宗憲等提案第45條對照委員傅昆齊等提案除第三項莫具修正為聽證相關事項一第九章之一之規定其餘同委員傅昆齊等提案"},{"start":9228.39,"end":9252.768,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團提案第46條除首具修正為聽證調閱委員會或聽證調閱專案小組之設立其餘未修正委員傅昆齊等提案第46條調查委員會或調查專案小組之設立均因於立法院用會會期中為之但行使調查權之時間不在此限調查委員會及調查專案小組"},{"start":9255.738,"end":9275.596,"text":"該調查事項完整並提出調查報告後即行解散但必要時的運作是該屆立法委員任期屆滿為止。委員楊瓊瓔等提案第46條跳躍文件之時間不受會期限制。委員吳宗憲等提案第46條同委員傅坤祺等提案。"},{"start":9276.977,"end":9299.366,"text":"委員傅崐萁等提案第46條之一,調查委員會之成員由立法院各黨團依其在院會之席次比例推派之,並得視實際情況與改派。調查專案小組之成員由各該委員會委員互選。調查委員會及調查專案小組應致召集員一人由所屬"},{"start":9301.109,"end":9325.092,"text":"成員互選之 委員吳宗憲等提案第46條之一同委員傅昆齊等提案台灣民眾黨黨團提案第47條除第一項守具受要求調閱文件之機關後面增訂法人、人民團體或社會上有關係人員等文字第二項守具聚首"},{"start":9326.567,"end":9332.432,"text":"被調閱文件修正為受要求調閱文件。令增訂第三項"},{"start":9334.031,"end":9362.012,"text":"受要求調閱文件致法人人民團體或社會上有關係人員應將調閱至文件送達立法院指定場所以供查閱由立法院指派專人負責保管其餘未修正委員傅崐萁等提案第47條調查委員會為行使調查權得要求政府機關部隊公司法人團體於5日內提供檔案帳冊等有關資料與必要時詢問相關人員或命其作證"},{"start":9362.893,"end":9381.452,"text":"但應於指定日之前5日通知相關人員與指定地點接受詢問。前項詢問應有調查委員3人以上在場。其經立法院會決議者相關人員出應國防外交機密理由並經立法院長之認可者外不得拒絕。"},{"start":9383.326,"end":9396.245,"text":"草案 並應詳時答覆於筆錄中簽名。黨相關資料原本業經司法機關或監察機關先為調取時應續名理由並提供副本。被調閱資料之機關"},{"start":9399.009,"end":9419.185,"text":"調閱期間應指派專人將調閱資料送達立法院指定場所以供參閱。委員楊瓊瓔等提案第47條除第一項手具聚首的受要求調閱文件之機關後面增訂法人、人民、團體或個人等文字。"},{"start":9420.166,"end":9435.276,"text":"第二項手具具手的被調閱文件之機關後面增訂法人、人民團體或個人等文字外其餘未修正。委員吳宗憲等提案第47條同委員傅崐萁等提案。"},{"start":9436.24,"end":9452.107,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團提案第48條第一項未修正、增訂第二項及第三項法人、人民團體或社會上有關係人員違反本法規定與立法院調閱文件時拒絕、拖延或隱匿不提供者"},{"start":9453.067,"end":9470.664,"text":"德經立法院院會之決議處新台幣3萬元以上30萬元以下之罰還,前項罰還案件之處理準用行政程序法及行政執行法之規定,受處分者如有不符,得於處分送達日次其二個月內向高等行政法院提起行政訴訟。"},{"start":9472.045,"end":9489.307,"text":"委員傅崐萁等提案第48條被調查對象違反本法規定與立法院調查詢問聽證或調閱相關資料時除不可抗力或屬於國家機關獨立行使職權或行政特權事務外拒絕拖延隱匿"},{"start":9490.816,"end":9517.873,"text":"不提供或為虛偽之陳述者得經院會之決議以立法院名義書面詳述事實聯同證據含請主管機關所在地或被調查者所屬單位之行政法院處心台幣一萬元以上三十萬元以下罰還令得案次連續處罰。前項情形若涉有藐視國會罪嫌者得經立法院院會之決議以送"},{"start":9519.424,"end":9541.932,"text":"檢查機關偵查不符前項之裁定者得為抗告,抗告中應暫停執行,各省及受理法院應於一個月內審結。政府機關或公務員不願配合調查惹前項行為者經立法院會之決議,以書面詳述事實聯同證據移送監察院,依法提出糾正糾舉或彈劾。"},{"start":9544.963,"end":9559.623,"text":"委員吳宗憲等提案第48條對照委員傅坤祺等提案,除第一項第二具條文中,詢問後聽證二至三除外,令第二項由第三項條文遞移,其餘同委員傅坤祺等提案。"},{"start":9562.025,"end":9581.684,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團提案第49條除條文中、調閱前均增訂聽證二字外其餘未修正委員傅崐萁等提案第49條除條文中、調閱均修正為調查以外其餘未修正委員吳宗憲等提案第49條同委員傅崐萁等提案"},{"start":9582.865,"end":9597.538,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團提案第50條除第一項條文中,吊躍委員會吊躍專案小組修正為聽證吊躍委員會聽證吊躍專案小組以外其餘未修正,委員傅崐萁等提案第50條。"},{"start":9599.079,"end":9612.65,"text":"除將條文中調閱委員會調閱專案小組修正為調查委員會調查專案小組外其餘未修正委員吳宗憲等提案第50條同委員傅坤祺等提案台灣民眾黨黨團提案第50條之一"},{"start":9615.983,"end":9633.922,"text":"聽證調閱委員會或聽證調閱專案小組依第45條第一項規定要求政府機關、法人、人民團體或社會上有關係人員到會被巡視。因應於開會日5日前,將開會通知、議程等相關資料以書面送達應邀到會之人員。"},{"start":9635.183,"end":9647.803,"text":"應邀到會備詢之人員非有正當理由不得拒絕出席第一項會議如涉及外交國防或其他依法另一秘密事項者以秘密會議行之。"},{"start":9649.875,"end":9665.319,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團提案第50條之二應邀到會備詢之人員經主席同意與必要使得協同律師或相關專業人員到場協助之台灣民眾黨黨團提案第50條之三應邀到會備詢之人員於應詢前應當場拒絕並於結文內"},{"start":9675.783,"end":9697.124,"text":"記載當據實答覆,卻無逆式偵檢等予,但就特定問題之答覆,如有刑事訴訟法所定,和拒絕證言之事由,並當場市民者不在此縣,為傅崐萁等提案第50條之一,調查委員會至少需半數以上委員出席,使得對證人加以詢問。"},{"start":9699.246,"end":9725.463,"text":"詢問需出以誠懇之態度不得有強暴脅迫或以其他意導致心理強制的狀態並不得強迫證人為不利己之公訴詢問前應令其宣誓告以立法院成立本調閱委員會之任務並告知其有拒絕證言之權利及事由前項拒絕證言之事由準用刑事訴訟法相關規定"},{"start":9726.844,"end":9746.55,"text":"接受調查詢問之人員認為調查委員會以逾越其職權範圍或設計司的而與公共事務無關者的成名理由拒絕證言或交付檔案委員吳宗憲等提案第50條之一同委員傅崐萁等提案台灣民眾黨黨團提案第50條之四"},{"start":9751.069,"end":9755.131,"text":"聽證調閱委員會或聽證調閱專案小組之成員得就與會議主題有關之事項對應邀到會備詢之人員提出問題要求答覆前項提問時間由聽證調閱委員會之主席或聽"},{"start":9769.478,"end":9796.93,"text":"聽證調閱專案小組之召集人依出席委員之人數公平分配之。第五十條之五應邀到會被詢知政府機關代表或公務人員經合法通知無正當理由而不出席者或無正當理由而拒絕或答覆者得經立法院會之決議將其移送監察院依法提出糾正糾舉或彈劾。請向以外應邀到會被詢知人員經合法通知"},{"start":9797.89,"end":9823.773,"text":"無正當理由而不出席者或無正當理由而拒絕或答覆者,得經立法院院會之決議處刑台幣3萬元以上30萬元以下之罰還,前項罰還案件之處理準用行政程序法或行政執行法之規定,受處分者如有不符,得予處分送達之次日起,二個月內向高等行政法院提起行政訴訟。"},{"start":9825.094,"end":9839.53,"text":"第五十條之六應邀到會被尋知政府機關代表或公務人員違反五十條之三規定與拒絕後答覆不實者得經立法院用會之決議將其移送監察院依法提出"},{"start":9840.851,"end":9865.224,"text":"糾舉或彈劾前向以外之應要到會被尋之人員違反五十條之三規定於拒絕後答覆不實者得經立法院會之決議處信台幣十萬元以上一百萬元以下之罰還。前向罰還案件之處理準用行政證據法及行政執行法之規定受處分者如有不符得於處分送達之四日其二個月內向高等行政法院提起行政訴訟。"},{"start":9867.677,"end":9885.588,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團提案第51條聽證調閱委員會或聽證調閱專案小組英語文件調閱處理及要求相關人員到會備詢之程序終結後20日內,分向院會或委員會提出報告書及處理意見,作為處理該特定議案之依據。"},{"start":9886.488,"end":9907.917,"text":"委員傅崐萁等提案第51條調查委員會或調查專案小組應於調查調閱終結後30日內分向院會或委員會提出調查調閱報告書及處理意見作為處理該特定議案之依據委員吳宗憲等提案第51條同委員傅崐萁等提案台灣民眾黨黨團提案第52條"},{"start":9913.449,"end":9936.739,"text":"除手具具手的文件調閱之調閱報告書修正為報告書第三具條文中不得對文件內容修正為不得對報告書內容倒數第三具條文中於調閱報告修正為於報告其餘未修正委員傅崐萁等提案第52條"},{"start":9938.753,"end":9962.372,"text":"調查調閱報告書及處理意見未提出前其調查人員、工作人員、專業人員、保管人員負有保密之義務不得對調查調閱內容或處理情形予揭露但涉及外交國防或其他依法令應祕密事項者於調查調閱報告及處理意見提出後仍應依相關法令規定保密並依祕密會議處理之。"},{"start":9964.861,"end":9968.3,"text":"委員吳宗憲等提案第52條同委員傅坤祺等提案。"},{"start":9969.278,"end":9997.057,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團提案第53條除第一項手具修正為聽證調閱委員會或聽證調閱專案小組未提出報告書及處理意見前第二項手具修正為前項聽證調閱專案小組之報告書及處理意見其餘未修正委員傅崐萁等提案第53條除第一項手具修正為調查委員會或調查專案小組未提出調查調閱報告書及處理意見前"},{"start":9999.958,"end":10021.906,"text":"第二項首具修正為前項調查專案小組之調查調閱報告書及處理意見其餘未修正委員吳宗憲等提案第53條同委員傅崐萁等提案委員傅崐萁等提案第九章之一章名聽證會之舉行委員吳宗憲等提案第九章之一章名聽證會之舉行"},{"start":10023.939,"end":10047.21,"text":"委員傅崐萁等提案第59條之一各委員會、調查委員會、調查專案小組為審查院會交付之一案全院委員會為補選副總統、彈劾總統副總統或審查行使同意權案得依憲法第67條第二項規定舉行聽證會涉及外交國防及其他依法另一秘密事項者以秘密會議行之。"},{"start":10049.335,"end":10065.244,"text":"除前項規定外聽證會應公開舉行但有些類情形應部分或全部不公開一、個人隱私有受到不當侵害之餘二、個人生命身體或其他自由有受到威脅之餘三、營業秘密有受到"},{"start":10066.765,"end":10090.48,"text":"不當侵害之予以秘密會議或不公開方式行之者所有與會者對於因秘密事項負有保密之義務違反前項有關保密義務之規定者適用國家機密保護法刑法及其他有關法令之規定處罰。委員吳宗憲等提案第59條之一同委員傅崐萁等提案委員傅崐萁等提案第59條之二"},{"start":10092.632,"end":10119.863,"text":"聽證會需經各委員會召集委員同意或經各委員會全體委員三分之一以上之聯署或附議並經議決方得舉行。委員吳宗憲等提案第59條之二同委員傅昆齊等提案。委員傅昆齊等提案第59條之三聽證會以各委員會召集委員為主席並得邀請政府人員及社會上有關係人員出席表達意見與證言。前項出席委員應依正反意見之相當比例。"},{"start":10120.888,"end":10142.26,"text":"邀請並以不超過15人為原則其人選由各委員會決定之應邀出席人員非有正當理由不得拒絕出席違反前項規定得經院會之決議以立法院名義書面詳述事實連同證據含請主管機關所在地之行政法院處新台幣1萬元以上30萬元以下罰還並得案次連續處罰"},{"start":10149.383,"end":10173.753,"text":"委員吳宗憲等提案第59條之三同委員傅昆齊等提案委員傅昆齊等提案第59條之四受邀出席之政府人員或與調查事件相關之社會上人員與必要時,經主席同意得由律師相關專業人員或其他輔助人在場協助。委員吳宗憲等提案第59條之四同委員傅昆齊等提案委員傅昆齊等提案第59條之五"},{"start":10174.793,"end":10202.755,"text":"草案 出席人員除有下列情形者外應據其所知如實完全陳述並提供相關資料不得隱匿或虛偽陳述一、涉及行政特權事項決定不公開之事項二、逾越聽證會調查之目的所提出之結論或對質三、依《刑事訴訟法》之規定得拒絕證言之事項四、涉及個人隱私或受其他法律保護之秘密事項"},{"start":10204.639,"end":10210.292,"text":"委員吳宗憲等提案第59條之五同委員傅坤祺等提案委員傅坤祺等提案第59條之六"},{"start":10211.847,"end":10235.56,"text":"舉行聽證會之委員會應於開會日5日前將開會通知議程等相關資料以書面送達出席人員並請其提出口頭或書面意見同一議案舉行多次聽證會時得由聽證會主席於會中宣告下次舉行日期不受5日之限制但仍應發出書面通知舉行聽證會之委員會應以通知書"},{"start":10237.048,"end":10265.09,"text":"在明下列事項准用行政程序法有關送達之規定一、會議主題二、受邀出席之有關機關或人民之姓名或名稱及其住居所、事務所或營業所三、聽證會舉行之時間、地點四、聽證會之程序五、作證或鑑定事項六、本章提及之相關權利及義務七、證人得皆同捕捉人到場八、"},{"start":10266.331,"end":10284.418,"text":"對違反作證或鑑定義務的為之處置,就本章相關或其他應注意或遵行事項。立法院對應邀出席之專家人員得著發出席費。委員吳宗憲等提案第59條之六同委員傅崐萁等提案。"},{"start":10286.516,"end":10310.791,"text":"文婦婚期等提案第59條之7聽證會應做成聽證會記錄前向聽證會記錄應載明出席人員所為陳述或發問之要旨及其提出之文書電子資料證據並載並記明出席人員於聽證會進行中聲明意義之事由及主席對於意義之處理聽證會應全程連續錄音錄影聽證會記錄當場製作完成者由陳述者"},{"start":10315.894,"end":10333.237,"text":"草案 及發問人當場簽名,未當場製作完成者,由主席指定日期、場所、工、陳述人及發問人閱覽並簽名,前項情形陳述者或發問人拒絕簽名或未於指定日期、場所、閱覽者應記名示由。"},{"start":10334.438,"end":10352.717,"text":"陳述者或發文人對聽證會記錄之記載有異議者得及時提出主席任意有理由者應與更正或補充無理由者應記名其異議委員吳宗憲等提案第59條之7同委員傅崐萁等提案"},{"start":10354.229,"end":10382.072,"text":"委員傅崐萁等提案第59條之八委員會於聽證會終結後15日內依出席者所提供之正反意見提出聽證會報告經主席核定簽名後除不公開這部分外送交本院全體委員並將得公開之報告刊登公報委員吳宗憲等提案第59條之八同委員傅崐萁等提案"},{"start":10383.427,"end":10408.621,"text":"委員傅崐萁等提案第59條之九聽證會報告作為審查該特定議案之重要參考前項報告有關出席受調查者涉及違法或虛偽陳述應與在民並依本法第48條移送司法機關或監察院委員吳宗憲等提案第59條之九同委員傅崐萁等提案"},{"start":10409.997,"end":10436.123,"text":"委員楊瓊瓔等提案第54條各委員會為審查院會交付之一案得依憲法第67條第二項之規定舉行公聽會邀請政府人員及社會上有關系人員出席陳述證言表示意見並提供相關資料前項出席人員人選由各委員會決定之各委員會應注意公聽會出席人員人選之多元性與代表性"},{"start":10437.763,"end":10461.493,"text":"應邀出席人員非有正當理由不得拒絕出席。第56條公聽會以各委員會召集委員為主席主席或出席委員於公聽會中得就公聽事項對出席人員提出結問或要求出席人員對質公聽會如涉及外交國防或其他依法應秘密事項者以秘密會議行之"},{"start":10462.253,"end":10478.766,"text":"第56條之一受邀出席之政府人員或社會上有關係人員與必要時經主席同意得由律師相關專業人員或其他輔佐人在場協助之。第56條之二出席人員除有下列情形者之外"},{"start":10479.846,"end":10507.473,"text":"應據其所知如實為完全陳述並提供相關資料不得隱秘或虛偽陳述一、涉及行政特權事項或經總統依其國家機密特權決定不公開之事項二、欲約公聽會之目的所提出之結論或對質三、依刑事訴訟法之規定得拒絕證言之事項四、涉及個人隱私或個人受其他法律保護之秘密事項"},{"start":10508.533,"end":10528.355,"text":"第57條舉行公聽會至委員會應以通知書在明下列事項準用行政程序法有關送達之規定於公聽會10日前送達之一會議主題二受邀出席之有關機關或人民之姓名或名稱及其住居所事務所或營業所三"},{"start":10529.016,"end":10544.867,"text":"公聽會舉行之時間地點 公聽會之程序 作證或鑑定事項 有關之權利及義務 證人得皆同輔佐人到場 對違反作證或鑑定義務得為之處置"},{"start":10546.028,"end":10567.856,"text":"其他應注印或遵行事項同一議案舉行多次公聽會時,得由公聽會主席於會中宣告下次舉行日期,不受時日之限制,但仍應發出書面通知。立法院對應邀出席人員得著發出席費及相關費用,其知己標準由立法院定之。第57條之一"},{"start":10569.775,"end":10584.492,"text":"公聽會應作成公聽會記錄,前向公聽會記錄應載明出席人員所為陳述或發問之要旨及其提出之文書證據,並暨明出席人員於公聽會進行中聲明異議之事由及主席"},{"start":10585.533,"end":10605.662,"text":"草案、對異議之處理、公聽會記錄得以錄音錄影輔助之、公聽會記錄當場製作完成者由陳述或發問人簽名或蓋章,為當場製作完成者由主席指定日期、場所供陳述或發問人閱覽,並由其簽名或蓋章,請向情形陳述或發問人"},{"start":10606.863,"end":10624.371,"text":"人拒絕簽名蓋章或位於指定日期場所閱覽者應記名其事由陳述或發問人對公聽會記錄記載有意義者得及時提出主席任意義有理由者應予更正或補充無理由者應記名其意義。"},{"start":10625.552,"end":10642.865,"text":"第58條,委員會因於公聽會終結後10日內,依出席者所提供之正反意見,提出公聽會報告,經主席合併簽名後,除不公開之部分外,送交本院全體委員及出席者,並得將公聽會之公聽會報告刊登公報。"},{"start":10643.285,"end":10667.396,"text":"草案 前向公聽會報告應包括出席委員之結問與之出席人員提供之證言、意見、資料及相關意義之處理結果。第59條．立法院院會或委員會於相關決議作成時應具體說明公聽會報告採納之情形、意見採納之情形或未採納之原因。委員賴氏堡等提案第12章之一章明藐視國會之處理。"},{"start":10670.277,"end":10692.489,"text":"第74條之一,藐視國會指依法應到立法院備詢或列席說明之政府官員非經立法院院會或各委員會之同意而無故缺席者,或明顯意圖以實問虛答、避重就輕、逃避監督或其他任何方法阻撓、藐視或不尊重院會或委員會程序之行為。"},{"start":10693.57,"end":10719.662,"text":"第74條之二．立法院或其委員會認為存在藐視國會行為時應先通知相關政府官員或部會組織並提供合理期限讓其改正或配合若在指定期限內未能改正或配合相關委員會可向全院提出藐視國會認定之提案提案之全體立法委員投票表決通過後應本法後續條文處理"},{"start":10720.862,"end":10730.739,"text":"第74條之三（對於被認定藐視國會的政府官員或部會組織可限制其參與立法院未來相關程序。"},{"start":10732.148,"end":10757.504,"text":"活動,如有必要,亦得准用刑法第140條,移送司法機關處理。第74條之四,被認定藐視國會的政府官員或部會組織有權提起行政訴訟,要求法院審查立法院的認定及處罰是否合法適當。第74條之五,基於專業保密義務或其他法律規定不能提供相關證據或作證的政府官員"},{"start":10758.184,"end":10771.85,"text":"或部會組織可申請或免申請應提交相關證明資料,由立法院審查決定。」委員楊瓊瓔等提案第75條之一違反第25條第二項、第47條第一項或第54條第三項規定,"},{"start":10776.132,"end":10799.191,"text":"無正當理由拒絕出席、答覆詢問或提供相關文件或資料者的經院會或委員會之決議,為下列處置﹐一﹐移送監察院依法提出糾正、糾舉或彈劾﹐二﹐處新台幣20萬元以下之罰還,前項罰還處分受處分者如有不符,得予處分送達之次日﹐二月"},{"start":10799.952,"end":10827.163,"text":"二個月內竟向高等行政法院提起行政訴訟。第75條之二違反第25條第二項第47條第一項或第56條之二之規定為虛偽陳述或提出內容虛偽不實之資料者處一年以下有期徒刑得併科150萬元以下罰金。討論事項第二案中華民國刑法委員翁曉琳等提案第140條之一"},{"start":10829.544,"end":10846.432,"text":"與立法院接受質詢時,無故缺席、拒絕答覆、拒絕提供資料,與虛偽、不實陳述或有其他藐視國會之行為者,處三年以下由其徒刑拘役或三十萬元以下罰金。委員傅崐萁等提案第五章之一章明,藐視國會罪。"},{"start":10848.769,"end":10867.54,"text":"第141條之一於出席立法院聽證會程序受諮詢時就其所致之重要關係事項對虛偽陳述者處3年以下有期徒刑、拘役或20萬元以下罰金。前項受調查時就重要關係事項提出內容不實或經偽造、變造"},{"start":10869.301,"end":10895.295,"text":"資料或電子記錄者一同前二項出席受質詢者及受調查者有下列情形者不罰一、涉及行政特權事項決定不公開之事項二、逾越聽證會調查之目的所提出之結論或對質三、依刑事訴訟法之規定的拒絕證言之事項四、涉及個人隱私或其他法律保護之秘密事項"},{"start":10896.175,"end":10921.709,"text":"第141條之二,行政院官員與立法院接受立法委員總諮詢時,就其所致之事項,未隱匿或明知不實仍需為陳述者,取一年以下有期徒刑拒議或十萬元以下罰金。前項官員以反諮詢之行為,經院會主席制止仍繼續為之者,處六月以下有期徒刑拒議或一萬五千元以下罰金。"},{"start":10922.849,"end":10945.487,"text":"討論事項第三案立法委員互選院長副院長辦法委員羅志強等提案第一條根據憲法第66條之規定院長副院長由立法委員以記名投票互選之全體立法委員均為當然候選人台灣民眾黨黨團提案及委員盧明哲等提案均同委員羅志強委員等提案"},{"start":10947.435,"end":10958.482,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團提案第一條之一,院長、副院長選舉應於每屆立法委員第一會期報導首日,完成宣誓就職後當日舉行。"},{"start":10961.651,"end":10982.454,"text":"繼續修正動議部分討論事項第三案修正動議一立法委員互選院長副院長辦法對照台灣民眾黨黨團提案條文第一條之一條文中報導首日完成宣誓就職修正為報導首日就職宣誓提案人委員黃國昌吳宗憲等宣讀完畢"},{"start":11046.8,"end":11049.904,"text":"現在我們先休息五分鐘好謝謝各位"},{"start":11715.46,"end":11734.945,"text":"我們現在先做會議時間的處理上午會議我們持續進行中午沒有休息我們現在有收到科委員建民等人的提案我們處理提案科委員建民等人提案宣讀後進行處理"},{"start":11740.528,"end":11748.578,"text":"就是你們這一份提案先宣讀完後再進行提案說明"},{"start":11750.814,"end":11770.287,"text":"提案今日議程僅進行大體討論及宣讀條文四下列各版本一民進黨黨團擬具委員翁曉琳等17人擬具委員鄭天才等19人擬具立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案等三案及委員呂玉玲等16人擬具"},{"start":11771.007,"end":11786.635,"text":"立法院職權行使法增進第28條之三及第28條之四條文草案。」五（委員呂玉玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法第15條之一條文修正草案與明日院會附議其屆滿"},{"start":11787.816,"end":11813.716,"text":"各黨團並就六委員羅志強等22人擬具《立法院職權行使法》第25條條文修正草案簽署不附議同意書委員會並就上開個案製作條文對照表上開個案再與今日議程所列個案並按審查提案人委員柯建銘、莊瑞雄、審發會陳俊宇、鍾嘉斌、吳思瑤等。訊訊完畢。"},{"start":11820.284,"end":11823.158,"text":"請問提案委員有沒有要做補充說明?"},{"start":11824.656,"end":11851.185,"text":"那有關補充說明的部分因為我們剛剛提案說明都是3分鐘那我們就依照剛剛的做法那我們就請提案說明限時3分鐘好請發言主席各位同仁今天大家都很清楚我們在審查重中之重的法案國會改革國會改革一路走來事實上我們還講從1993年走到今天不斷在修正"},{"start":11852.285,"end":11880.079,"text":"但這時候我還是要告訴大家 懇切拜託大家我們希望整個國會改革是在大家能夠充分討論底下能夠來以完成到至於最後曹岳湘乃至於最後的院內表決當然我們都尊重所以我們希望開快車不希望就是把故意把其他黨團的版本不審沒差一天啦"},{"start":11880.987,"end":11900.214,"text":"明天民眾黨團的版本就要附會,大家可以來平安審查。況且在座翁小英以及羅志祥委員,他的版本也不應該把它丟包才對。所以我希望就是說,我們這樣大家沒差一天,我們今天就進行"},{"start":11902.458,"end":11924.287,"text":"竟然已經條文宣布完畢了以後我們今天進行大於討論然後禮拜三乃至於禮拜四也都無所謂我們再好好來審把所有版本都放進來包括羅志強委員版本我們可以簽不負議案把它全部併起來然後請議事委員把所有的對照版本說出來"},{"start":11925.988,"end":11951.909,"text":"這樣才有辦法審查或者外面在外面版本陸續要進來的將近有七八個版本所以我比較誠實誠懇拜託大家都說我們希望今天是大家不要造成衝突然後大家好好講而且大家都在看這個現場的時刻立法院怎麼來處理所以我希望就是說今天的處理的情形希望在大家很和諧的狀況下"},{"start":11953.73,"end":11974.592,"text":"一條一條來論,到底誰對誰錯都沒有關係,因為到最後沒有分,到副主席委員講說,反正你沒問題提釋憲嘛,就去釋憲。但是在釋憲前至少立法院通過版本也要程度上的一種嚴謹度以及一定上的水準,否則的話以後人家看待"},{"start":11975.768,"end":11992.732,"text":"例子這一刻的時候會如何評價整個司法委員會如何評價整個的立法院在處理法案的程序法案當然大家知道應該就是說既然是委員會中心主義的話那叫委員會好好審我再如何來強調這個是一個"},{"start":11996.516,"end":12010.671,"text":"有沒有查到這一天我們並沒有要停審尤其這一次要審的最重要的部分就是說五八五事件那20年前事出來以後一五還當然在二零一五有處理過後來"},{"start":12012.173,"end":12029.775,"text":"那時候有王院長馬上召集大家把版本弄出來後來在2016有稍微處理但是呢都沒有直接面對585事件的核心價值所以以上拜託大家好好的來審查今天的法案不要趕著為了出委員會而出委員會"},{"start":12035.63,"end":12038.734,"text":"請問針對柯總召等人的提案有無異議?"},{"start":12054.778,"end":12075.594,"text":"既然有異議的話那我們就進行表決那我們現在採舉手表決的方式表決前我們先請清點在場委員的人數在場出席委員是12位那我們現在開始表決贊成者請舉手"},{"start":12080.442,"end":12081.882,"text":"副主席確認參加表決人在國內"},{"start":12105.441,"end":12115.867,"text":"我們現在宣告表決結果表決結果在場出席委員12位那贊成者6位反對者6位那贊成者與反對者同訴"},{"start":12117.478,"end":12140.87,"text":"根據委員會組織法第10條的規定各委員會的議事以出席委員過半數的同意決定可否同數時取決於主席現在本席的決定是反對所以表決結果為在場出席委員13人贊成6人反對7人本案贊成者少數本案不通過"},{"start":12161.67,"end":12164.733,"text":"提案條文及修正動議均已宣讀完畢。"},{"start":12177.891,"end":12203.172,"text":"第二我們先進行大體討論那因為我覺得還是要講求效率啦所以我們希望說大體討論的部分我們一樣每個人發言一次那時間上面因為剛有委員有意見嘛那我們就多一分鐘我們看每個人就四分鐘的發言時間什麼時候用四分鐘的和實體一樣的時間嘛"},{"start":12205.4,"end":12216.785,"text":"藝術者不打,這沒差勁就打。現在要講求的不是效率,現在我們這麼多法應該是要在這裡周延,不是講求效率。營營大者,不是效率。主席哪有講的很多,我還沒進入時值哪有講的很多勒?"},{"start":12227.03,"end":12243.988,"text":"公聽會相關的東西都講的一樣而且像剛剛各位的發言這個是委員會審查委員會審查應該要充分的讓委員在委員會中心精神之下在委員會裡面好好周圍來討論而不是效率什麼時候立法什麼時候立法變成是效率了"},{"start":12249.173,"end":12258.155,"text":"一直以來大體討論都是跟質詢的時間相當,是相當的時間,8加2的時間。那請有要發言的人就麻煩到前面來登記。等一下,有差這個4分鐘嗎?你這樣講4分鐘,讓他講8分鐘,有這麼急嗎?"},{"start":12272.128,"end":12281.513,"text":"而且今天齁我們的討論事項齁立法委員我們一般是8加2的啦齁委員我們可以稍微調整沒有關係而且6加2這樣總可以吧這是一份鬧啦這是一份鬧啦"},{"start":12302.234,"end":12302.334,"text":"草案。"},{"start":12319.762,"end":12321.703,"text":"草案案件事宣告 立法院職權行使法部分條文修正"},{"start":12346.834,"end":12347.574,"text":"蔣麗芸蔣麗芸蔣麗芸蔣麗芸蔣麗芸蔣麗芸蔣麗芸蔣麗芸蔣麗芸蔣麗芸"},{"start":12376.104,"end":12376.825,"text":"條文修正草案"},{"start":12389.209,"end":12418.547,"text":"不要講擴權好不好我們現在是在就條文這個我們在審理不要一直動不動我講話啊拍桌子你不值得這位主席講的這是假話啦我不再尊重你啦沒關係不尊重我沒關係我還是尊重你們沒關係我還是尊重你們大家你不尊重我講得偏偏好啊你賺的剛好是相反嘛那這樣齁需要發言的委員來請問那個各位有沒有要登記但是大體討論沒有四分鐘的不是一浪再浪不必再浪啦"},{"start":12419.427,"end":12438.082,"text":"我們的誠意已經做到死不出了。主席從頭回到尾就是在這裡沒有辦法解完。大體討論就給4分鐘主席都才4了。沒有我剛剛已經講了我從來沒有讓步我就說翻4分鐘那你不要罵我。你是主席的什麼你們聽你們的我們委員會成員在讓步你不要翻人家的小弟嘛我覺得"},{"start":12440.083,"end":12449.068,"text":"中委員我從頭到尾這個話就是我講出來的我講出來每個人發言一次發言四分鐘主席還沒有發言大體討論才是四分鐘你認為你這個才是對嗎我是尊重你啦那你不要詭辯啦"},{"start":12459.65,"end":12460.91,"text":"我還再提醒一下主席,那個都是趙偉豪,我們尊重吳主席"},{"start":12484.199,"end":12497.83,"text":"現在我們今天交付審議的立法院職權行使法15案有8個案子是今天本委員新增。目前我們有請司法院的副廳長立法院的秘書長還有我們法務部的次長今天有7個8個新交付的審查還有我們翁委員接下來我們請柯建民委員發言謝謝"},{"start":12513.069,"end":12527.234,"text":"主席我知道你心正意誠但是你這司法體系這麼久心正意誠的法官都馬上被告盡量發言都馬上程序要完備那你心正意誠你今天不讓我們充分發言不讓我們充分發言主席你也沒有這麼偉大啦我真的是奉勸你啦"},{"start":12533.696,"end":12547.331,"text":"在座主席主席主席主席我們在座你說你是法律人啊我會認為你沒有法律的堅持啦戰爭法律在底下啦你連讓人家發言一句話你都不讓人家講你這個才是你睡得著嗎"},{"start":12548.942,"end":12573.538,"text":"講得出來主席沒讓你們講一句話你從程序發言到會議諮詢到大庭談判到中間你們今天吳政卿主席比起你們民進黨任何一個主席會議的主席都要客氣你那個異黨黨黨黨主席都要客氣你那個異黨黨黨主席都要客氣你那個異黨黨黨主席都要客氣你那個異黨黨黨主席都要客氣你那個異黨黨黨主席都要客氣你那個異黨黨黨主席都要客氣你那個異黨黨黨主席都要客氣你那個異黨黨黨主席都要客氣你那個異黨黨黨主席都要客氣你那個異黨黨黨主席都要客氣你那個異黨黨黨主席都要客氣"},{"start":12577.166,"end":12578.688,"text":"羅志強示範了什麼叫做自我閹割。"},{"start":12597.057,"end":12601.121,"text":"我一直講啦就說麻煩柯總召開始發言還是跟我要棄權我也沒意見主席你唱名三次阿不上去就棄權了啦規則"},{"start":12620.737,"end":12621.898,"text":"條文修正草案案"},{"start":12645.351,"end":12672.412,"text":"大地討論還沒開始就要停止討論民進黨敢講啦我們告訴你今天主席就是尊重你們發言權到現在在你們發言啦所以以後在裡面整個民進黨當主席不是太平凡的啦在民進黨在基礎建設特別條文的時候六個聯席委員會通通都可以上去發言好啦大家不要再吵了那我們是不是讓柯總招"},{"start":12674.083,"end":12674.544,"text":"條文修正"},{"start":12686.77,"end":12708.017,"text":"大法官上台今天我們是坦白講是要好好談的我們不想跟你吵架我希望大家鬥而不破這是一個歷史時刻也是現任時刻這是何其嚴肅的嘛我會改革當然大家都知道重中之重"},{"start":12709.489,"end":12730.685,"text":"這會期最重要法案,當然是可以這樣開快車嗎?自己想一想。過去2016也曾經國會改革審理過,但審了一年多,審了一年多,最後通過什麼?這個通過有一條,當我跟吳報調查那一部分沒有處理,該通過的都有通過。"},{"start":12731.98,"end":12753.134,"text":"也通過立法院組織法,立法院院長必須依職中立推出政黨。這些都有啊,直播等等都有。這是因為沒有共識,但是那時候我們國會都不敢硬幹。所以我剛才翁曉營講了一句話,沒有錯,五報事件到現在已經20年,但是我們並沒有庭審啊。"},{"start":12754.983,"end":12773.661,"text":"後段版本就進來了啊,怎麼會庭審呢?所以我們講話都精準一點,我們建議要精準一點。那連585各位回語一下,這319證項會,公佩就是兩顆子彈的問題嘛。那,我們黨認為阿本那兩顆子彈是假的,所以成立證項會。"},{"start":12775.751,"end":12802.105,"text":"那正在那2004年的時候七月立法院三樓通過八月提出提出釋憲只有兩個多月以後十月的時候釋憲出來那中間有一段叫做行政部門提出抵抗權那個就是為了違憲所以提出抵抗權到最後終於釋出來了"},{"start":12803.166,"end":12828.878,"text":"各位要了解當然提出事件就是我我跟很多憲法學者到憲法林去那時候我講過一句話憲法在滴血因為因為把立法院的權益全部凹縮引到外面的人去而且破壞到整個權力分立原則我們今天在這裡講任何國會改革我們要談一個最大原則就是說"},{"start":12831.124,"end":12856.96,"text":"這個我們憲法是權力分立的你可以制衡可以監督沒有錯但是不是藉制人藉監督來予以擴權這個要掌握這個這個選舉條件所以各位假如吳文綺楊瓊說這個趕快給他製造憲政衝突吳文綺以後叫賴總統來立法院我剛剛也講過請問我們之前的憲法第16條很清楚的表示"},{"start":12858.777,"end":12882.16,"text":"新的院長產生以後,兩個禮拜以內要到立法院來備詢,三天前要提出書面報告。你們寫版本,一個月內要來立法院接受諮詢,而且也是急問急答,還有書面諮詢,這才厲害。在這個時候,事不宣傳衝突。先往所不同喜的事項,先往第四條解釋,寫到什麼?德而義。"},{"start":12883.464,"end":12895.778,"text":"你這樣修改職權行使法去抵觸憲法是不是這個可以不算違憲嗎?到底至親嗎?憲法講得很清楚啊行政是國家最大行政機關啊現在有三條啊"},{"start":12897.208,"end":12901.271,"text":"三）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具〈立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":12916.437,"end":12931.82,"text":"這事件報告是他的應急的義務。議員法院也有執行權。這是一個權益分立的對等的。這並沒有所謂上對下,也沒有所謂的反執行的問題。議員法院職權行使法第16條整個修的時候,國會五法修的時候,我到現在現場1993年修到1999年1月的時候才通過。"},{"start":12945.908,"end":12960.925,"text":"我把這個講清楚一點,對不起1999年1月的時候,國會無法通過什麼叫國會無法?就是立法院組織法包括立法院行為法、執行法、議事規則等"},{"start":12962.182,"end":12975.847,"text":"但是這次我們提出司法修正所以當初的時候修出來的時候國務法修了國務法執行黨不可以執行大家知道"},{"start":12977.117,"end":12993.026,"text":"當時1991年修正的時候是這樣,執政黨不再執行,後來不行再改,再改又三問三答。到2000年的時候改什麼?改幾問幾答。所謂幾問幾答就是說沒有什麼要上就下的,所以各位大家要了解整個法的立法嚴格以及憲法精神。"},{"start":12994.395,"end":12999.619,"text":"二）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具〈立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案〉案"},{"start":13019.811,"end":13037.504,"text":"國會改革就是要檢視現行的國會無法透過修法來優化國會的內規讓立法委員職權的行使能夠全責相符國會改革就是要有助於一個專業理性良性監督的國會"},{"start":13039.005,"end":13039.546,"text":"合法院職權行使法部分條文修正"},{"start":13054.262,"end":13077.227,"text":"確是完全的往權力擴權的一方去傾斜。我要再次強調,國會改革不是國會擴權,國會有權就要有責,要check就要有balance。這才是符合社會期待的國會改革,這才是能夠樹立國會正面形象的國會改革。"},{"start":13078.107,"end":13102.696,"text":"非常遺憾上週五的立法院的院會表決發生了投票舞弊的事項而涉案的黨團今天在這裡提出國會擴權的版本請問有社會正當性嗎?國會的委員自我藐視國會現在要來立法要求別人不得藐視國會今天又要"},{"start":13104.296,"end":13122.177,"text":"採油門開快車要企圖通過一個毀線違憲的國會改革版本這不只移校社會更是移校國際國民黨的委員害怕讓民進黨的版本並按審查因為條文一筆"},{"start":13124.039,"end":13134.042,"text":"不比不知道不比較沒有傷害一比較就知道誰是真改革誰只是在擴權因為民進黨的版本今天沒有機會進來並安審查我花一點時間來說明民進黨權責相符的國會改革版本"},{"start":13141.784,"end":13143.925,"text":"民眾黨提出了立法院組織法十四條十五條十九之二條二十四條跟二十八條我們希望提升立法院內部的幕僚組織的功能來協助國會議員強化監督的職能所以民眾黨團提案"},{"start":13158.331,"end":13173.678,"text":"要優化預算中心法治局的專業導入我們要向民間攬財民進黨更為了要杜絕現在資安的問題我們也提案在立法院組織法立法院成立資訊安全處設立資安長請問這樣進步的條文國民黨支不支持?"},{"start":13180.393,"end":13207.304,"text":"在立法委員行為法裡頭民進黨提出第七之一條跟三十條因為民進黨主張立法院不能再有下一個陳雪生這種性騷擾的事件因此民進黨提出了要深化性平不得有性騷、歧視的言行或行為如果立委有危及涉及刑事責任者應移送法辦立委有權就要有責"},{"start":13208.044,"end":13222.439,"text":"自我的自律跟苛責何其重要?如果能夠通過民進黨的版本那麼上週五發生的冒領表決卡、冒名投票的事件就得以移送法辦。"},{"start":13224.501,"end":13228.905,"text":"這種進步的立法國民黨支不支持?民眾黨也提出議事規則第47條第52條的修法就是要讓立法院不能再有下一個馬文君我們要求強化秘密會議所有的規範"},{"start":13241.738,"end":13250.969,"text":"凡是洩露、攜帶出任何國家機密的內容涉及刑事責任者的移送法辦,這樣子進步的立法,國民黨、民眾黨支不支持。"},{"start":13257.176,"end":13274.556,"text":"今天審查的條文都是職權行使法我要再次強調國民黨版的職權行使法要讓立法院凌駕行政權要有官員的任免權這違反了大法官誓字第613號"},{"start":13276.838,"end":13280.621,"text":"國民黨民眾黨版本要取代讓立法委員取代司法權取代監察權要有調查權跟聽證權很遺憾國民黨的立委調查跟聽證傻傻分不清楚但是這樣的提案就違反了憲法大法官誓字585號325號729號以及大法官誓字633號等等"},{"start":13307.279,"end":13323.097,"text":"國民黨版又提出針對總統應到立法院來國情報告而且即問即答而且要常態化這樣的提案就違反了憲法第三條增修條文第三條以及憲法增修條文四之三條"},{"start":13324.238,"end":13334.462,"text":"所以我要說樣樣像像違反憲法非常明確而民主進步黨在職權行使法的部分針對立法院的調查權是有入法的民主進步黨在職權行使法的第八章分成兩節第一章在處理立法院院會層級要涉調查委員會民進黨的第八章第二節在處理"},{"start":13352.23,"end":13359.034,"text":"立法院委員會得以設立調閱小組。民眾黨的版本讓調查跟調閱雙軌化。所以,好,我做結論。我做結論。就職權行使法來說,民主進步黨的版本合憲、合法、合乎規範、合理可執行。我們要設置一個可調查、有限制、要保密的國會調查規範。"},{"start":13381.909,"end":13394.833,"text":"在此說明只要比較就可以看出誰的條文是好的誰的條文是違憲的因為主席不讓人們輕鬆發言再次抗議從來沒有在同一時候的大庭討論只有14分鐘再次表達遺憾我盡可能的快速發言完畢謝謝接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員謝謝"},{"start":13420.133,"end":13440.666,"text":"主席在場委員先進今天我們在這裡要審查的是立法院職權行使法跟刑法第141條之一之二的修正案嗎不是今天我想不分朝野各政黨我們要求的是要健全國會但是要注意我們是要健全"},{"start":13441.988,"end":13454.139,"text":"不是擴權,更不能濫權,甚至是侵犯人民依憲法保障的權利。」我們看到了今天為什麼主席跟國民黨團一而再再而三的"},{"start":13455.225,"end":13482.01,"text":"指控民進黨拖延議事其實沒有。我們只是希望循著議事的程序讓民進黨黨還有其他國民黨其他委員的國會改革的方案可以進入來並同審查。為什麼並同審查那麼重要?為什麼國民黨一直不讓民進黨團的提案進來並同審查呢?像剛剛有位委員說的不比較不知道,一比較就知道嚴重在哪裡。"},{"start":13483.311,"end":13499.082,"text":"其實今天要審查的由國民黨為主加上民眾黨民眾黨團所提出的立法院職權行使法國民黨的14個案子全部依附在今天的第二個部分就是刑法一事一條之一之二的修正"},{"start":13500.595,"end":13524.953,"text":"換言之國民黨所謂的國會健全就是要擴權就是要濫權甚至要用刑法一事一條之一之二來侵犯人民受憲法保障的權利所以刑法一事一之二之一這就是今天國民黨刑法修正的重點國民黨14個案子通通以藐視國會罪作為核心"},{"start":13526.121,"end":13543.939,"text":"我們就來看一看這個藐視國會罪到底在國民黨的提案當中他扮演一個如何讓立法院擴權甚至侵犯人權的方式我們看到的章名 刑法沒有這一章欸 刑法有第五章之一嗎 沒有 這個第五章之一藐視國會罪單獨設章"},{"start":13546.121,"end":13567.018,"text":"在立法說明當中請各位自己翻到第89頁他說是至第325及585先後揭示這是國民黨提案說明請你看喔立法院為有效行使刑法所賦予之立法職權本與固有之權能自得相有一定之調查權主動獲取行使之權所必要之相關資訊並能充分事變審慎決定以善盡民間之職責發揮權力分立制衡之機能說得很好但是"},{"start":13575.179,"end":13576.9,"text":"三）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具〈立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案〉案"},{"start":13595.276,"end":13610.983,"text":"必要時候得經院會決議,要求調查事項相關之人民及政府人員陳述證言或表示意見,對違反調查之意者在科署刑法環環的範圍內施以必要的強制手段。"},{"start":13615.049,"end":13636.568,"text":"五八五有告訴你可以用刑法嗎?你們的立法說明就跟自己引用的憲法自制第五……五八五就抵觸啦五八五說,爆發人民欸可不可以用刑法只有華環的行政的強制力國民黨目前的這個刑法的修正案完全自己抵觸自己的立法說明"},{"start":13637.429,"end":13662.014,"text":"我們來看一看今天我們本席要求主席讓今天列席的司法院的副廳長我們的法務部次長來說明因為在上週我們公聽會的時候他們有提出的一個書面意見這裡面說話什麼立法院行使調查權如涉及憲法保障的人民資本權利不僅應有憲法的依據而在該法律之內容必須明確必須符合比例原則及正當法律程序"},{"start":13664.125,"end":13689.876,"text":"國民黨團十四個提案立法院職權行使法通通繫覆在刑法第一、四、一之一之這。更荒謬的我這邊要提一下待會因為有委員就要提案了要說明。溫委員今天補進來的這個根本連這個都沒有。他說於立法院接受質詢時無故缺席拒絕答覆拒絕提供資料或虛謂不實之陳述"},{"start":13691.277,"end":13705.818,"text":"包括人民,或有其他藐視國會之行為,在場只要基本上修過基本的法學概論的人都知道,"},{"start":13706.906,"end":13729.92,"text":"刑法一定要最刑法定,要明確地寫出來,可以在刑法第11條之一寫其他藐視國會的行為嗎?這樣的刑法修正案放到這裡面來,真的要讓社會看得清楚。國民黨這一次立法院職權行使法總共14個版本,加上刑法11條之一之後的修正版本兩個版本,"},{"start":13731.241,"end":13741.973,"text":"就是要強制加諸人民藐視國會罪,必須對人民得應有憲法保障的權利刻以刑責,完全違背他們自己所接觸的實質"},{"start":13743.834,"end":13768.146,"text":"五八五號的解釋所以我希望今天主席應該也要讓在場的這些邀請來的列席機關代表既然我們要大體討論邀請他來做什麼邀請他來就是做我們這些委員提案的版本當中就他們其他五權分立其他各院執掌的部分行政權執管的部分來加以說明可以嗎"},{"start":13768.866,"end":13777.751,"text":"最後一個部分我的大體討論發言結束請問一下主席可不可以請他們做說明最後這個會議詢問請主席採視一下接下來我們請審發會委員可不可以讓他們回應"},{"start":13799.133,"end":13800.594,"text":"主席各位司法委員會同仁"},{"start":13828.103,"end":13845.609,"text":"我想我們本來在司法法制委員會我是比較期待說這邊大家都是有相當專業能力那也都在過去的經驗裡面在司法法制委員會大家都比較就法論法的來討論那今天是很難得司法委員會有這樣子的政治性場面"},{"start":13847.149,"end":13868.184,"text":"這個我其實知道啦,國民黨黨團當然這個我剛講了新政已成啦新政已成反正今天就是不管你們幹嘛就是要過啦我們人數多加上民眾黨的的助權加起來就贏你們民進黨所以所以今天就是要過啦我在這邊講反正我們在這邊講破道理"},{"start":13869.405,"end":13891.96,"text":"對結果都不會有改變因為這個國民黨團新政已成要幹嘛今天都已經來這裡只是只是執行這個黨團的意志了那我還是要利用這個機會所以我在這邊講我就不就也大家可以自己自己去滑手機啦國民黨委員就不用聽我講什麼反正我講什麼你們也跟最後的討論無關啦那我講給社會聽啦講給社會聽這個這一次的這個今天所排的這個議程齁"},{"start":13898.922,"end":13911.367,"text":"零零總總這樣加起來說號稱是國會改革法案但是我們看到的每一條都是國會的擴權那國會擴權沒有關係國會要擴權屬於立法院的權利我們當然屬於這個立法權應該有的權利這個應該當然是擴權但是全部這個國會擴權裡面議題實在是太多了"},{"start":13920.772,"end":13947.946,"text":"這整個包成一包要在今天然後用這種方式連大體討論也要限制4分鐘然後這個程序發言只能兩次然後這個這個還要講求效率講求立法效率我們看到這個議題這裡面的議題有多少都是盈盈大哲包括這個總統的這個這個國情報告要不要常態化常態化之後要不要質詢化"},{"start":13949.639,"end":13951.141,"text":"一問一答質詢話,光這個議題他就應該,這個又是一個單獨的議題"},{"start":13959.209,"end":13987.857,"text":"另外有關這個人事同意權緊急命令的追認總統的彈劾這樣子的議題又有這麼多議題再加上什麼呢立法委員的執行規範我們要規定說這個立法院有權力移送行政官員立法權移送行政官員給司法單位這三權分立三個都由我們立法委員包辦了立法委員可以移送行政官員移送給司法單位"},{"start":13989.865,"end":14016.639,"text":"這樣子的跟這個民主憲政的權力分立的原理實在是很難理解啦很難理解另外這個有關立法院的這個調查權跟聽證權這裡所提到的我們的這個法案裡面這個要求這個可以要求公司法人人民團體提供帳冊檔案這個通過之後未來小師店美容院土豐舞協會"},{"start":14019.244,"end":14047.108,"text":"每天早上跳舞的我們立法院可以把他叫來叫他把張冊拿出來叫他把檔案交出來這樣子的權利我不是說這可以不可以這大家來討論但是我剛所講這麼多種這麼多的議題每一個議題都牽涉有很多要嘛牽涉到憲政原理要嘛牽涉到人民的權利義務我認為每一個議題都應該是單獨的立法單獨的討論有完整的程序"},{"start":14048.663,"end":14067.297,"text":"那你要今天把這全部包起來立法院職權行使法、刑法、立法院院長、副院長這個選舉辦法整個通通要包成一包然後國會擴權包成一包要在今天用這種方式國民黨動員大家來不讓民進黨發言發言過久讓民進黨只能發言4分鐘"},{"start":14073.629,"end":14102.928,"text":"要包起來也沒關係好主席我知道時間到了我一向很尊重時間了大家今天在場這些委員大家平常在委員會發言超過時間我坐在下面我從來沒有趕大家我只有跟主席示意希望主席能夠讓大家照時間那今天在這裡我這個大體討論裡面我現在在超過30秒我最後30秒跟大家講要包起來也可以我是跟社會講要包起來也可以為什麼包起來又把民進黨的法案又踢出去"},{"start":14105.733,"end":14121.072,"text":"這個整個就顯示了今天這一場會議最後不管做成什麼樣的決定他就是一個政黨的私心而不是為了全民真正為了國會的改造以上好謝謝那我們接下來請陳俊宇委員發言"},{"start":14142.196,"end":14149.225,"text":"好謝謝主席那在場各位委員還有列席的所有的首長齁那還有媒體"},{"start":14150.441,"end":14176.571,"text":"那經過一個早上的討論稱如我們剛剛在程序發言所提及的監督是我們立法委員的職責那我們確實也在執行這個職責那進行國會改革應該是要符合人民的期待最重要的是在剛剛稱如我們昭偉講的五權分立精神之下必須要全責相輔"},{"start":14177.991,"end":14191.278,"text":"來完備立法委員的職責所需更有效的來監督政府也讓民眾能夠更加的瞭解事實的真相並能夠清楚的瞭解這個所有的內容"},{"start":14192.691,"end":14218.706,"text":"那其中有關國情報告的這個討論對於聽取總統國情報告的這個規定各黨及各委員所提出的不同版本來看有關這個立法院職權行使法第15條之一及第15條之二第15條之四的內容這一點還是在採取的方式為何和報告的這個時間那我想"},{"start":14219.426,"end":14234.401,"text":"在先前委員會已經進行過這個討論從立法院的法治局先前所提供的資料也能夠借盡其他國家的這個做法那基於憲法這個徵修條文第4條第3項"},{"start":14236.906,"end":14263.382,"text":"立法院於每年集會時得聽取總統國情報告本席認同總統應該到國會進行國情報告並就立法院職權行使法第15條之二的第二項總統就其職權相關之國家大政方針得知請立法院同意後至立法院進行國情報告"},{"start":14265.134,"end":14291.793,"text":"準總統賴清德也表示願意到國會來進行報告進一步考量我國這個憲政的體制應依照現行的法規不接受立法院的質詢得依照立法院職權行使法第15條之四得就報告不明瞭之處經總統同意時得綜合在座補充報告"},{"start":14294.093,"end":14318.51,"text":"有關調查權、調閱權的這個規範則是賦予我們立法委員的輔助性權利。更應該要謹守權利分立。合乎憲法在現行仍有監察院存在的情況之下是否會逾越到監察院的職責。那國會調查權的這個行使是否會侵害到人民的權利。"},{"start":14319.895,"end":14341.23,"text":"我們之所以要強化立法院的調查調閱權目標應該是要保障民眾的資的權利而非為了政治上的這個攻防所以本席在此特別要呼籲也希望不願看到我們國會高度這個高強度對抗"},{"start":14344.008,"end":14361.439,"text":"也會尊重多元聲音請聽不同這個名義的我們今天的大會主席吳宗憲召委能夠就我們所提出不管是國民黨或是民進黨還是其他委員所提出的版本都能夠"},{"start":14363.035,"end":14376.848,"text":"一起送進我們委員會來討論意見可以更完整審查也可以更有效率讓我們所有版本都有機會被納入一起討論以上是我的個人意見下一位我們請莊瑞雄委員發言"},{"start":14393.061,"end":14405.698,"text":"主席各位委員還有我們在場列席所有的官員那我想今天我們這個大題討論的部分我們看到了這麼多版本"},{"start":14407.369,"end":14431.536,"text":"我相信國民黨的朋友還有民眾的朋友應該也會看到民進黨也有提版本那為什麼各個政黨都會有提版本就是說這個整個國會改革國會的調查跟聽證的這個部分大家也都認許到這個是國會該有的權利但是我們從那麼多場的公聽會裡面我一直在談說這個射程到底要多遠"},{"start":14433.268,"end":14455.022,"text":"各位在場有幾位還有現場好多的法律專家你去把它看看我們從憲法裡面的規定我們從第一章的總綱到第二章人民的基本的權利跟義務立法委員的部分規定在第六章你就看這三章就好了你從第七條你去把它看到第22條都在講的是人民的基本的權利"},{"start":14456.983,"end":14474.667,"text":"23條更是給你宣誓說第7條到22條這些權利自由權利除了為了防止妨害他人自由的緊急避難維持社會秩序跟維護公共利益所必要者外不得用法律去限制他也就是說今天各位把它想想看你這個藐視國會罪裡面"},{"start":14478.528,"end":14492.615,"text":"會不會有創設掉憲法第23條這整個例外比例原則的規定以外你又把它加一個進來變成第五項這個是我最擔心的地方從這麼多場公聽會裡面我一直在闡釋這樣的一個概念哪一個法律可以去規範說"},{"start":14500.322,"end":14529.2,"text":"立法院這個國會是不能被藐視的台灣到現在的民主政治我看喔其實立法院一直是被人民給藐視的那現在不是我們立法院我們反而反過頭來了就說人民我要你到國會裡面來你沒有來我虛偽陳述你這個藐視國會的部分好多好多這個部分我就把你立法院做成一個決議就把你做個移送"},{"start":14530.54,"end":14551.288,"text":"對還是不對我還是覺得在場這麼多的一個政治家大家可以好好的去做一個思考了四字585跟四字633我就不在這邊多費口舌了應該大家都看到現在這兩號解釋裡面既然要修這一部法令應該大家都看得很清楚了他強調的還是一樣我反而會認為國會調查權"},{"start":14557.028,"end":14568.446,"text":"各黨都認為他是國會本來就應該擁有尤其是這個國會調查權身為立法院一個輔助上的一個權力可是呢既然大家都認同有的話"},{"start":14569.588,"end":14588.547,"text":"要不要像現在各位委員提出了這麼多的版本對人民這麼大的一個重大的一個利益來做這麼這麼大的一個人身上或者說自由權的一個過度的一個限縮這一點真的要好好的本席要在這個地方好好的去做一個提醒"},{"start":14589.827,"end":14600.711,"text":"就像我早上所講的我們憲法第67條我們所規定的是各種委員會我們是邀請政府人員跟社會有關係的人到會來做一個備詢邀請各委員會是做邀請給你邀請我邀請謝榮介我邀請傅坤祺、黃國昌、阿欽來給你邀請這就代表說我很誠意什麼你邀請來了,你讓他來了"},{"start":14618.882,"end":14620.063,"text":"二）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具〈立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案〉案〈立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案〉"},{"start":14648.763,"end":14652.565,"text":"審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案 涉及到檢察院、司法院、行政院。我們在修法都讓他們都不讓人家講一句話。通嗎?通嗎?尤其主席去講說你剛去發言的時候去講說民進黨動不動扣你這個案子裡面什麼中共的同路人。錯!"},{"start":14671.716,"end":14694.211,"text":"我到現在沒有人因為這個國會改革這個案子去講你什麼吳宗憲主席是中共的同路人如果你有聽到這個的話我們本黨的委員講這個話我都站在你的立場幫你譴責可是沒有的話也不能這樣去講我們就就事論事好不好這個整個法案的一個討論裡面你那個多數啦算你算你多數你會過但是這樣做主席這樣不好啦好不好好 謝謝"},{"start":14700.907,"end":14710.834,"text":"中委員你剛剛也誤會我的話,你再回去聽一下我剛剛講的,我剛剛不是說你這個說的這個內容沒關係我講話我都還記得我剛剛講什麼,沒關係不用不用我們接下來請翁曉琳委員"},{"start":14727.785,"end":14754.803,"text":"是的,我們今天其實已經花了很多的時間都在針對我們這次所提出來的今天準備要併審的這些法案進行了非常多的討論我想這裡還是要回歸到幾個重點就是我們大家難道不想了解總統的這個國情大政方針嗎?我們能到能夠忍受"},{"start":14756.058,"end":14784.911,"text":"政府官員在議事殿堂上面不尊重立法委員的質詢,藐視民意嗎?我們難道大家不想要去了解過去政府發生的這些種種的弊案,它真實的事實的狀況是如何嗎?譬如像是這個疫情紓困時候的這個8800億的預算,高端疫苗案以及為什麼我們編了這麼多預算還仍然買不到BNT的疫苗,"},{"start":14785.99,"end":14799.143,"text":"那甚至蔡英文總統的論文為什麼要列為機密這些都是大家想要去了解的這些重要的案件事實可是透過我們現在的立法院的執行權我們可以問得到嗎現在的"},{"start":14804.652,"end":14833.036,"text":"除了立法院之外其他的權力機關都有調查權監察院有調查權司法院有調查權行政機關有調查權公平會就有調查權為什麼立法委員不能夠有調查權這個是我們行使職權一個非常重要的核心本質這個在大法官的解釋以及在歷來的這個憲法的這個學理上面都認為這是立法院非常重要的一個輔助性的工具"},{"start":14835.885,"end":14837.327,"text":"草案（事由．一）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具"},{"start":14854.808,"end":14872.095,"text":"這個已經套招好了嗎所以未來我們通過的法案立刻就要提起釋憲然後大法官就會宣告我們是違憲是這樣嗎他們都已經說好了嗎這是我感到非常訝異的在前幾次的公聽會裡面其實已經有蠻多的學者基本上都肯認"},{"start":14873.636,"end":14895.585,"text":"立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案。這個是民主國家的常態我必須說英國、美國、德國、法國、日本哪一個國家沒有這個調查權即便是在我們五權分立的國家在我們現在五權分立的中華民國監察院的調查權跟立法院的調查權它行使的方式還有它的效果還是不一樣的這個有什麼違背憲法之說所以"},{"start":14904.281,"end":14927.956,"text":"我必須講今天的法案非常的重要縱使有一些法案可能沒有辦法在這個今天這個場域裡面一起討論但是我們事後還可以透過譬如說修正動議等等的提出你們的看法我們可以再一起討論並不是講說完全沒有機會但是如果說這個法案不繼續往前走"},{"start":14929.11,"end":14957.04,"text":"仍然是會回到我們原來的狀態就是國會成為一個沒有牙齒的老虎我們只能叫我們只能講可是政府官員不甩我們就是不甩我們這個就是一種非常典型的藐視民意我實在不懂得民進黨黨團為什麼要一直阻擋、杯葛這些重要的國會改革法案"},{"start":14958.507,"end":14959.908,"text":"草案．立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．立法院擬具"},{"start":14986.089,"end":15012.069,"text":"我們尊敬的柯建民大法官我跟各位講我今天是帶著民進黨2016年的黨魂跟黨德來這邊發言的我要幫2016年主張聽證調查國情報告急問急答的柯總召來看看今天2024年的柯總召我要幫2009年贊成國會聽證調查的賴清德來看看今天的民進黨"},{"start":15013.01,"end":15037.601,"text":"我要幫2012年的陳其邁跟鄭麗君都是贊成國會聽證調查國會改革然後說一旦今天把我們的國會的聽證調查拿掉就是拔掉立法委員的牙齒幫著那個我們的陳其邁鄭麗君來看看今天的民進黨是怎麼樣自我閹割怎麼樣拔自己的牙齒"},{"start":15039.568,"end":15062.603,"text":"剛剛其實我要幫我們的吳宗憲我們的主席今天特別說明一下各位不比較沒傷害啦這民進黨名言嘛剛剛講的我順便舉個例子多得很2022年4月21號會計法主條討論當時主席就是我們的審法會委員會議開沒多久有停止討論直接表決就碾壓過去了"},{"start":15064.448,"end":15072.874,"text":"你有給今天國民黨那時候的少數的國民黨大體討論的機會嗎?國民黨如果要求多討論你有給他機會嗎?民進黨多數就直接碾壓吳宗憲我們的召委兩個禮拜前我們排審了民進黨說公聽會不夠吳宗憲委員挪了兩個禮拜上個禮拜開公聽會你民進黨多數的時候有給過國民黨這樣的待遇嗎?"},{"start":15093.888,"end":15099.395,"text":"今天要程序發言給你們程序發言要會議質詢給你們會議質詢要大體討論給大體討論民進黨過去給國民黨給少數黨這樣的待遇嗎我要跟各位講今天我要講的是"},{"start":15111.312,"end":15138.186,"text":"吳宗憲委員今天主持非常公正也非常中立他今天就是善盡一個主席該讓大家討論的一個職能可是今天國會改革是全國人民的期待啊是我們2016年我們20年為國會改革努力的民進黨黨革的期待啊今天我跟各位說已經從早上9點鐘搞了4個小時了"},{"start":15141.391,"end":15155.5,"text":"民進黨沒有給過國民黨這樣待遇啦四個小時讓你討論全部在鬼打牆你的所有發言全部是都是在一直循環同一個論證我要跟各位說欸我在發言不要講話主席暫停時間我我在講話喔拜託喔請繼續我要回答講我繼續講"},{"start":15165.851,"end":15166.872,"text":"條文修正草案案"},{"start":15181.886,"end":15196.709,"text":"你今天有這麼認真國會改革你跟國民黨一樣開議的時候沒多久就提出來今天不就在討論了你這麼認真要國會改革2016年提出的版本你講多數8年了你過不了你從頭到尾在幹什麼誰看不清楚司馬昭之心今天幫著2016年的沒有完成的民進黨的工作我們今天才可以幫你們完成啊"},{"start":15209.642,"end":15232.977,"text":"你的黨德跟黨魂我幫你完成啊也不用擔心啊我跟主席我直接建議啦已經討論4個小時了啦待會主條討論的時候有爭議就保留啦直接送協商啦黨團當然還有很多意見保留不用擔心今天國會改革你明天要討論20年你2016的版本出來已經有8年之久8年還不夠給你80年也不夠啦"},{"start":15238.4,"end":15248.557,"text":"所以我講白了今天拜託主席四個小時討論已經非常非常尊重民進黨了有爭議就保留受協商謝謝"},{"start":15250.64,"end":15272.293,"text":"好 謝謝那有關今天那個大體討論的範圍都完畢了剛剛鍾嘉斌委員有提到說是不是要請行政機關來做報告但是我們剛剛有把這段時間那個行政機關所提到的書面報告其實就相關的部分都已經說明完畢了我想說沒有必要再請行政機關來做報告那"},{"start":15286.703,"end":15287.303,"text":"條文修正草案案。"},{"start":15304.147,"end":15324.972,"text":"審查進行方式的說明。因為國會改革相關的法案已經討論非常久了,非常多年,而且我們最近也進行過了三次的公聽會。各界雖然還有很多不同的聲音,但是為了回應各界的要求,儘速完成國會改革的希望。"},{"start":15325.752,"end":15350.558,"text":"還有兼顧議事的和諧保留民進黨團提案時的空間還有參酌剛剛羅志強委員的提案稍後如果逐條討論如果大家有不同的意見的話我們本席都會予以尊重我們有可能會朝向做保留的決議保留讓大家後續能夠進行協商"},{"start":15352.722,"end":15353.982,"text":"主席主席主席主席主席"},{"start":15381.052,"end":15393.678,"text":"請問每個人桌上都有15案的資料嗎?有喔?好,謝謝那我們現在就開始進行逐條審查第二條,請問在場委員有意見?"},{"start":15398.072,"end":15398.252,"text":"有意見﹖"},{"start":15416.816,"end":15417.036,"text":"草案案"},{"start":15440.711,"end":15450.314,"text":"15個案裏面的那個法條那是民眾黨委員的提案!什麼黃國昌總召在這裏你不要黃國昌總召說明提案嗎?怎麼不要黃國昌總召說明提案呢?你們都講好了嗎?第二條提案委員有沒有要提出補充說明?"},{"start":15467.678,"end":15486.59,"text":"這條的運作本來就應該是按照這樣的方式進行只不過說我們過去運作的狀態在立法院職權行使法裡面並沒有予以明文的規範那既然沒有明文的規範那我們就在這一次修正當中把它補出以上說明完畢"},{"start":15488.711,"end":15498.24,"text":"條文已經說明完畢了。有意見表達好嗎?有意見表達,因為這是立法院的,我要問一下立法院秘書長啊!"},{"start":15501.727,"end":15509.551,"text":"這不是討論誒!這是討論誒!將對這個立法院開議律!這當然拉起立法院說明啊!立法院秘書長說明啊!主導討論就是要有討論!是要主導討論!主導討論!"},{"start":15526.821,"end":15530.723,"text":"我們要討論!只要我們去條文討論!我們要討論!條文要討論!只要我們討論!條文要討論!"},{"start":15546.288,"end":15558.979,"text":"要先討論完才能夠決定是不是保留啊。要通過討論才能知道大家的意見是不是相同或者是有歧異啊。這個條文我有意見。這個條文我有意見我要發言好嗎?"},{"start":15568.653,"end":15569.434,"text":"條文修正草案案"},{"start":15590.695,"end":15593.238,"text":"國民黨不要害怕討論!還機條而已!國民黨害怕討論!不要討論家人!不要!"},{"start":15609.32,"end":15614.563,"text":"草案．一）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等50人擬具〈立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":15628.891,"end":15629.932,"text":"草案案件事宣告"},{"start":15651.085,"end":15651.986,"text":"條文修正草案案"},{"start":15671.926,"end":15697.271,"text":"竹條討論可以沒有討論就保留嗎竹條討論可以沒有討論就保留嗎竹條討論可以沒有討論就保留嗎竹條討論可以沒有討論就保留嗎竹條討論可以沒有討論就保留嗎竹條討論可以沒有討論就保留嗎竹條討論可以沒有討論就保留嗎竹條討論可以沒有討論就保留嗎竹條討論可以沒有討論就保留嗎竹條討論可以沒有討論就保留嗎竹條討論可以沒有討論就保留嗎竹條討論可以沒有討論就保留嗎竹條討論可以沒有討論就保留嗎竹條討論可以沒有討論就保留嗎竹條討論可以沒有討論就保留"},{"start":15704.384,"end":15724.791,"text":"草案 秘書長可以說明一下嗎?大體也不讓我們大體討論,主條也不讓我們主條發言。這實在是亂搞耶!這是什麼國會改革?這是什麼國會改革?大體討論不讓我們大體發言,主條討論不讓我們主條討論。"},{"start":15731.434,"end":15746.523,"text":"國民黨在害怕什麼?第一條還是民眾黨的條文欸!我們就好好討論啊!為什麼害怕主條討論呢?這位萊秘書長可以說明一下,您可以指導一下國民黨的委員嗎?"},{"start":15749.11,"end":15765.486,"text":"中文藍秘書長可以指導一下國民黨的委員嗎?有逐條討論不經討論就直接保留的嗎?這也要經過大家同意啊這麼害怕討論中文秘書長你要不要來指導一下這些國民黨的委員們?大體討論就是要討論啊這實在是很離譜欸秘書長你應該本於全責"},{"start":15775.015,"end":15778.622,"text":"說明一下基本的審議程序國民黨不要害怕討論"},{"start":15795.254,"end":15807.15,"text":"草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具"},{"start":15823.869,"end":15827.31,"text":"草案、立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案、立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案、立法院職權行使法部分條文"},{"start":15831.254,"end":15841.568,"text":"草案案件不佔附和部首職權行使法部分條文修正草案件不佔附和部首職權行使法部分條文"},{"start":15844.551,"end":15868.806,"text":"草案 立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":15871.988,"end":15898.582,"text":"草案案件事宜,其中一人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案件事宜,其中一人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案件事宜,其中一人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案件事宜,其中一人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案件事宜,其中一人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案件事宜,其中一人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案件事宜,其中一人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案件事�"},{"start":15899.843,"end":15903.806,"text":"草案案件事務委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":15921.936,"end":15924.198,"text":"行使法部分條文修正"},{"start":15944.69,"end":15945.49,"text":"一、二、三）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具"},{"start":15964.958,"end":15976.932,"text":"草案案件及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法"},{"start":15980.435,"end":15983.357,"text":"草案 當任牌組委員委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16006.709,"end":16034.263,"text":"草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊"},{"start":16035.82,"end":16062.471,"text":"草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊"},{"start":16304.69,"end":16308.155,"text":"謝謝大家,那我們就繼續逐條。大家辛苦了。"},{"start":16318.185,"end":16329.212,"text":"民眾黨的版本是增列第三項,針對開議日如果朝野協商沒有辦法達成共識的時候,我們要討論一下好嗎?我想要讓憲哥就這個部分想要請立法院來說明一下有意見要不要討論,要不要保留,也要經過就保留。要處理"},{"start":16337.898,"end":16346.742,"text":"三）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具〈立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案〉案〉〈立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案〉案〉〈立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案〉"},{"start":16367.212,"end":16367.392,"text":"草案。"},{"start":16385.365,"end":16390.307,"text":"草案﹑立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案﹑立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":16407.346,"end":16409.327,"text":"條文修正草案案。"},{"start":16423.82,"end":16442.477,"text":"因為如果這樣不讓我們逐條討論這種討論是什麼意義呢居然連讓條文的內容清楚的說明對話這樣子的空間都沒有辦法怎麼叫逐條討論呢是啊認真的委員就應該是這樣不是嗎認真的委員不就是逐條討論嗎"},{"start":16450.919,"end":16456.202,"text":"為什麼不讓我們舊條文論條文好好討論呢?因為有人提散會動議齁那"},{"start":16474.636,"end":16487.466,"text":"對嗎?有人提散會動議,那我們就進行表決好了。那我們先清點在場的委員人數。在場的出席委員12人。現在我們開始表決。請問贊成散會動議的人請舉手。謝謝。"},{"start":16503.285,"end":16508.858,"text":"合格者6人,反對者請舉手現在宣告表決結果"},{"start":16514.724,"end":16532.94,"text":"條例結果在場出席委員12人贊成6人反對6人現在依照立法院委員會組織法第10條規定各委員會的議事與出席委員過半數之同意決之可否同訴時取決於主席"},{"start":16534.127,"end":16545.24,"text":"那現在本席表示反對所以表決結果為在場出席委員13人贊成6人反對7人反案贊成者少數不通過"},{"start":16550.219,"end":16558.702,"text":"但是...但是要讓我們主條討論嗎?大家有不同意見要不要保留我覺得這個事情要討論不是誰說要保留就保留下一條還不能到下一條我想要發言就條文問條文"},{"start":16578.75,"end":16583.876,"text":"草案案件事宣告主導認真的討論,這是國會議員的天職,這是國會委員的天職,哪有審條文不給討論的?哪有審條文不給討論的?"},{"start":16596.064,"end":16603.469,"text":"草案案件不允許。我們要討論!主條討論!我們要討論!有意義要討論!有意義要討論!有意義要討論!大家被認真準備請好好就條文來辯論!就條文來辯論!大家沒有共識那就予以保留。我們要討論!"},{"start":16622.981,"end":16623.921,"text":"草案 國會改革不丟臉 國會改革不丟臉"},{"start":16646.609,"end":16670.609,"text":"草案國會改革沒有補充意見不依會議程序開會還敢講國會改革你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不覺得害人嗎?你們不"},{"start":16674.352,"end":16675.293,"text":"草案案件事務委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16689.349,"end":16692.391,"text":"草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具"},{"start":16715.147,"end":16717.968,"text":"國民黨為什麼害怕討論?國民黨為什麼害怕討論?國民黨為什麼害怕討論?有意見就保留主條討論就是要討論"},{"start":16734.415,"end":16736.799,"text":"章偉哲當時在創下惡意,謊論國會改革,這種國會改革笑掉大牙,這種國會改革毫無正義,有意義,"},{"start":16749.838,"end":16751.941,"text":"有意義有意義有意義有意義有意義有意義"},{"start":16765.257,"end":16765.817,"text":"條文修正草案案"},{"start":16785.284,"end":16787.327,"text":"條文修正草案案。"},{"start":16803.743,"end":16807.685,"text":"草案 提案人為台灣民眾黨提案。請問台灣民眾黨有意見要補充?"},{"start":16829.906,"end":16830.806,"text":"條文修正草案 案。"},{"start":16845.953,"end":16857.265,"text":"條文修正是有瑕疵的。今天的議案你指揮是有瑕疵的。華國昌不是最重視程序正義嗎?程序正義被懲罰制止。華國昌沒有意見嗎?程序正義被懲罰制止。華國昌沒有意見嗎?自拔嘴巴。"},{"start":16873.946,"end":16886.588,"text":"反對保留要求表決,但是主席都沒有處理,黃煥德會改革主席你不能讓人家第一個討論也不讓人家討論表決輸的機會都不要,你怎麼敢表決,你聽得懂嗎?有意見,有意見,我們要求提案委員來說"},{"start":16894.97,"end":16897.571,"text":"條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具"},{"start":16922.901,"end":16948.949,"text":"請大家現在不要插嘴我講10秒鐘我在念什麼的時候大家都沒有在聽在講自己的然後每個人都亂聽我講的這樣不好好不好請尊重我一下你從來不尊重與會委員嗎?你也要尊重委員會然後尊重大家主導表決發言的權利你寫下一條下一條下一條你看看台灣民眾黨副坤崎委員以及本席"},{"start":16950.222,"end":16965.434,"text":"那請問在場的提案有無意見要補充?要,要補充啊,請說明啊。請說明啊。自己提案沒有辦法說明喔?自己的提案不敢說明喔?請針對提案說明。"},{"start":16966.561,"end":16966.661,"text":"草案。"},{"start":16984.411,"end":17004.239,"text":"我要求處理第4條提案人為翁曉琳委員請問翁委員有沒有意見要補充沒有意見要補充我們要求跟你辯論嗎我們審查條文就來好好辯論啦害怕什麼有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見"},{"start":17009.707,"end":17010.968,"text":"條文修正草案案 案。"},{"start":17028.086,"end":17029.947,"text":"主席,請議議事規則,權與問題優先處理,成與問題優先處理,權與問題優先處理,主席"},{"start":17050.158,"end":17052.46,"text":"主席主席主席主席主席"},{"start":17070.311,"end":17074.213,"text":"條文修正草案．立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案"},{"start":17086.772,"end":17089.075,"text":"楊瓊瓔等52人擬具〈立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":17103.695,"end":17109.54,"text":"問題都先處理!問題都先處理!主席 你在出惡力耶主席主席 你們人多吧!你們應該是抬頭挺胸的來審法案才多!怎麼我的會議循環你別讓我講話都不讓我講話咧?我們就依據部分學員的版本"},{"start":17128.623,"end":17136.089,"text":"額﹑予通過求修意見有意見啦當然有意見啦都沒有討論當然有意見有意見就保留主席 強行保留強行保留是有意見的我怎麼有讀到這種我怎麼有讀到這種主席的什麼在整個按照議事規則我在會議詢問什麼你連插頭都不插完你一直拍攝插完喔還是你整個議事規則都沒有念是不是我們現在齁因為有委員提散會動議那我們這優先處理我就沒話說啦"},{"start":17155.043,"end":17158.947,"text":"那現在我們進行表決那採用舉手表決的方式那表決前請清點在場的出席委員人數在場出席委員12人那現在開始表決那贊成者請舉手"},{"start":17180.1,"end":17180.482,"text":"證人者6人,反對者請舉手"},{"start":17187.329,"end":17210.822,"text":"反對者6人現在宣告表決的結果在場出席委員12人贊成6人反對6人贊成者與反對者同宿依據各委員會組織法第10條規定各委員會的議事以出席委員過半數的同意決之可否同宿時取決於主席現在本席表示反對"},{"start":17214.244,"end":17220.651,"text":"表決結果為在場出席為13人那贊成6人反對7人本案贊成者少數不通過"},{"start":17235.573,"end":17249.124,"text":"徵定第46條之一提案人有傅坤祺委員及本席請問在場的提案委員有沒有要表示意見沒有的話請問本條依據傅坤祺委員版本"},{"start":17249.824,"end":17257.292,"text":"通過請問有意見﹖有意見沒有發言﹖有要求處理﹖有要求討論﹖有要求討論﹖有要求討論﹖有要求討論﹖有要求討論﹖有要求討論﹖有要求討論﹖有要求討論﹖有要求討論﹖有要求討論﹖有要求討論﹖有要求討論﹖有要求討論﹖有要求討論﹖有要求討論﹖有要求討論﹖有要求討論﹖有要求討論﹖有要求討論﹖有要求討論﹖有要求討論﹖有要求討論�"},{"start":17271.546,"end":17288.153,"text":"要求處理那沒有要補充的話那本條依據傅坤祺委員版本通過請問各位有無意見有保留要求處理要求處理沒問題嘛那我唸一下嘛"},{"start":17298.719,"end":17301.481,"text":"我們反正沒關係 多一個 多一個"},{"start":17310.8,"end":17315.445,"text":"荒天下之大廟,國會改革是這樣處理的?還敢講國會改革?丟臉!表決前清點在場委員人數在場出席委員12人現在開始進行表決贊成者請舉手贊成者6人,反對者請舉手"},{"start":17337.25,"end":17365.515,"text":"反對者6人請放下現在宣告表決結果表決結果在場出席委員12人贊成6人反對6人贊成者跟反對者同訴那依據組織法第10條規定可否同訴時取決於主席那現在本席表示反對所以表決結果為在場出席委員13人贊成者6人反對者7人反正贊成者少數不通過"},{"start":17373.15,"end":17392.064,"text":"第48條提案人有台灣民眾黨提案那副委員昆齊及本席提案那請問在場的提案人有要補充說明的提案人請說明好嗎這麼重要的條文不說明啊害怕什麼沒有辦法說明喔因為嚴重違憲不敢說明"},{"start":17394.025,"end":17396.885,"text":"有異議!有異議!有異議!有異議!有異議!有異議!有異議!有異議!有異議有異議有異議有異議有異議有異議有異議有異議有異議有異議有異議有異議有異議有異議有異議有異議有異議有異議有異議有異議有異議有異議有異議有異議"},{"start":17423.95,"end":17432.077,"text":"草案﹑立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案﹑立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案﹑立法院職權行使法部分條"},{"start":17443.676,"end":17453.291,"text":"反對者6人現在宣告表決結果表決結果在場出席委員12人贊成6人反對6人那贊成跟反對者同訴"},{"start":17454.554,"end":17458.457,"text":"現在本席表示反對,所以表決結果為在場出席委員13人,贊成6人,反對7人,本案贊成者少數不通過。"},{"start":17480.558,"end":17493.567,"text":"第49條,原來為台灣民眾黨團提案,那副委員昆齊及本席提案,請問在場提案委員有無意見要補充?本條依據副昆齊委員版本通過,請問有無意見?"},{"start":17505.546,"end":17507.628,"text":"因為雙方沒有共識本條予以保留。"},{"start":17530.894,"end":17549.875,"text":"那我們因為有委員提上會動議那我們現在先進行表決採用舉手表決那在場出席委員12人那現在開始表決贊成者請舉手好那謝謝請放下那反對者請舉手"},{"start":17553.367,"end":17577.473,"text":"現在宣告表決結果表決結果在場出席12人那贊成者6人反對6人贊成者跟反對同宿那可否同宿時取決於主席那現在本席表示反對所以表決結果為出席為13人贊成6人反對7人本案贊成者少數不通過"},{"start":17585.508,"end":17599.612,"text":"第50條提案人台灣民眾黨提案副昆齊委員提案及本席提案請問在場提案委員有無意見補充要求提案人說明"},{"start":17602.353,"end":17610.92,"text":"委員昆齊斑等如果請問有異議要求表決要求處理反對保留要求處理敢提案不敢說明這怎麼一回事啊"},{"start":17622.543,"end":17623.324,"text":"簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽"},{"start":17646.867,"end":17654.521,"text":"戰爭者6人請放下反對者請舉手反對者6人請放下現在宣告解決結果"},{"start":17658.572,"end":17676.776,"text":"結果在場出席12人贊成6人反對6人贊成與反對者同訴可否同訴時取決於主席現在本席表示反對所以在場出席委員13人贊成6人反對7人本案贊成者少數不通過"},{"start":17685.907,"end":17693.695,"text":"為什麼害怕逐條討論呢?立法委員的職責不就是逐條討論負責任的審查嗎?進行增訂第50條之一提案人為台灣民眾黨黨團提案"},{"start":17701.883,"end":17713.431,"text":"請問在場的提案人有無意見要補充民眾黨委員請說明吧黃總召您的提案是不是要說明說明一下吧所以黃國昌同意每個條文都不用討論直接這樣處理"},{"start":17720.336,"end":17723.918,"text":"本條依據民眾黨黨團提案通過有異議。"},{"start":17750.756,"end":17761.844,"text":"反對保留反對保留反對保留反對保留反對保留反對保留反對保留反對保留反對保留反對保留反對保留反對保留反對保留反對保留反對保留反對保留"},{"start":17778.724,"end":17803.967,"text":"反對者6人請放下現在宣告表決結果表決結果在場出席委員12人贊成6人反對6人贊成與反對可否同事時取決於主席現在主席表示反對所以表決結果在場出席委員13人贊成6人反對7人答案贊成者少數不通過"},{"start":17808.803,"end":17824.312,"text":"那現在進行增訂第50條之3那提案人為台灣民眾黨團傅坤祺委員還有本席那請問在提案人提案委員有沒有意見要補充沒有沒有意見要補充的話那請問本條依據"},{"start":17833.277,"end":17857.245,"text":"副分席委員版本通過有異議有異見那有爭議就本條一一保留好那由委員提議 散會動議現在進行表決齁採用舉手表決在場出席委員12人現在開始表決那贊成者請舉手六人好請放下反對者請舉手"},{"start":17859.191,"end":17861.513,"text":"行使法部分條文修正"},{"start":17871.295,"end":17888.836,"text":"在場出席委員贊成6人反對6人那贊成反對同數可否同數取決於主席現在本席表示反對所以表決結果為贊成6人反對7人反正贊成者少數不通過"},{"start":17893.557,"end":17898.76,"text":"端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端端"},{"start":17918.212,"end":17931.101,"text":"反正我就是幫忙幫你餵稿啊謝謝大家的厚愛謝謝大家的厚愛好那我們進行表決齁那採用舉手表決在場出席委員12人那現在開始表決戰神者請舉手戰神者6人請放下反對者請舉手"},{"start":17948.69,"end":17967.502,"text":"反對者6人請放下現在宣告表決結果贊成者6人反對者6人贊成跟反對同訴可否同訴時取決於主席現在主席表示反對所以表決結果贊成6人反對7人本案贊成者少數不同過"},{"start":17973.965,"end":17997.89,"text":"徵定第50條之五提案人為台灣民眾黨團請問提案人有意見補充沒有沒有那本條依據台灣民眾黨版本通過有意見有意見有意見有意好本條予以保留謝謝阿這麼多人聽我講話謝謝大家謝謝"},{"start":18002.948,"end":18016.317,"text":"有委員提上會動議現在進行表決採用舉手表決在場出席12人贊成者請舉手贊成者6人請放下反對者請舉手"},{"start":18026.984,"end":18051.491,"text":"反對者6人請放下。結果贊成者6人反對6人贊成者與反對者同訴那可否同訴時取決於主席那現在本席表示反對所以表決結果贊成6人反對7人那本案贊成者少數不同過"},{"start":18059.265,"end":18085.022,"text":"徵定五十之六條提案人台灣民眾黨團提案請問在場提案委員有無意見補充應該要說明吧那本條依據台灣民眾黨團提案版本通過請問有異議有異議要討論保留本件雙方沒有共識本條予以保留反對反對保留要求處理有委員提三會動議"},{"start":18090.315,"end":18098.761,"text":"五十之一條就是非常離譜的違憲的聽證權喔非常清楚的違憲的聽證權喔國會的聽證權怎麼民眾黨提案不說明呢因為害怕說明嗎害怕說明就把違憲的部分害怕被揭露嗎這是在處理國會聽證權欸"},{"start":18117.68,"end":18142.886,"text":"這麼嚴肅的法案不進行提案說明,這麼嚴肅的法案不說明。好,請放下。表決結果,贊成6人,反對6人,贊成反對同訴,可否同訴時,取決於主席。現在本席表示反對。所以表決結果,贊成6人,反對7人,反案贊成者少數不通過。"},{"start":18149.036,"end":18160.814,"text":"現在審查第51條提案人台灣民眾黨副委員坤祺及本席請問在場委員有無意見補充提案委員有無意見補充要求提案委員說明"},{"start":18162.45,"end":18173.041,"text":"這麼重要在處理聽證調閱委員會聽證調閱委員會的職權這麼重要調閱委員會的權限這麼重要你們不敢說明因為違憲啊提案委員不敢說明因為違憲啊提案委員有民眾黨有傅坤祺有吳宗憲為什麼不敢說明呢"},{"start":18187.059,"end":18211.666,"text":"你們不是要把聽證調閱權弄得完備嗎?違憲的條文你們自己不敢上來說明有委員提議散會動議那現在進行表決採用舉手表決那在場出席委員12人現在開始表決贊成者請舉手好 贊成好 贊成者6人請放下反對者請舉手好 反對者6人請放下現在宣布"},{"start":18212.973,"end":18241.923,"text":"表決結果贊成6人反對6人贊成者跟反對同訴可否同訴時取決於主席現在本席表示反對所以表決結果贊成6人反對7人反正贊成者少數不通過主席等一下再來一個提案再表決一下不一樣不一樣的提案所以請好好念請主席複述一下提案內容好嗎"},{"start":18242.93,"end":18243.971,"text":"一﹐一﹐一﹐一﹐一﹐一﹐一﹐一﹐一﹐一﹐一﹐"},{"start":18261.417,"end":18288.671,"text":"主席我是提案人我非常樂意進行提案說明我非常樂意進行提案說明讓我進行提案說明好嗎今日司法及法制委員會交集委員吳宗憲於進行法案主條審查時剝奪委員實質討論之權限我們提出譴責案提案人有柯建銘吳思瑤鍾嘉斌莊惠雄陳俊宇審發會我們提起譴責案因為主席主持議事不公不服"},{"start":18290.137,"end":18308.616,"text":"不符我們的議事規則,剝奪委員實質討論至全縣主持嚴重的不公,我們要求提出譴責案,請進行處理。還是要不要給我3分鐘我可以進行提案說明嗎?我可以進行提案說明嗎?"},{"start":18309.983,"end":18314.385,"text":"我要進行提案說明可以嗎?好 宣讀完我進行提案說明 謝謝主席我進行提案說明可以嗎?"},{"start":18336.978,"end":18343.04,"text":"我可以進行提案說明嗎?我應該有我的權利進行提案說明。您只聽從于傅崐萁總召的說明嗎?我是譴責案的提案委員。我要進行譴責案的提案說明。我是譴責案的提案委員。"},{"start":18366.828,"end":18376.682,"text":"我要進行提案說明主席那我要再提一個譴責案您今天不是我們司法法制委員會的章偉跟主席您是傅昆吉總召的小弟"},{"start":18377.748,"end":18385.111,"text":"怎麼可以這樣呢?我是一個體育員真的是太對你意識規則了今天的意識規則絕對您踐踏在地啊還敢講國安法改革我在這裡要向您的宣告大家是您朋友線上的朋友"},{"start":18398.997,"end":18402.718,"text":"今天民主進步黨立法院司法法制委員會在這裡針對我們的主席吳宗憲不依據議事規則一開始不讓我們進行權宜問題乃至於不讓外國人提起會議詢問乃至於拒絕我們進行大體討論乃至於現在進入主條討論的時間要強硬的"},{"start":18425.822,"end":18426.402,"text":"審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具"},{"start":18442.194,"end":18445.196,"text":"草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具"},{"start":18462.185,"end":18464.708,"text":"沒有辦法就條文論條文。民主進步黨認為這是強害國會的監督權。這是強害國會的審查權。我們提起對於維生線總召的強烈譴責案。這是前無古人、後無來者。"},{"start":18481.425,"end":18485.247,"text":"剝奪委員發言權、剝奪委員質詢以及逐條審議的權限在場我不只要捍衛立法委員的職責我更要捍衛所有在場列席的行政官員、跨院的官員因為國會改革這是憲政很重要的一個息息相關的制度討論基於權力分立的原則這麼多"},{"start":18508.818,"end":18509.482,"text":"草案﹑立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":18513.723,"end":18524.206,"text":"不讓他們發言、不讓我們討論這是什麼立法院、法院、國會法官我不曉得現在坐在主席台上的傅昆奇你有什麼資格坐在那個位置你有什麼資格坐在那個位置他在自己的提案沒什麼力進行說明就在自己的提案沒什麼力來說明內行這是什麼提案這是什麼立法委員"},{"start":18543.07,"end":18546.892,"text":"六位委員贊成柯建平等六位的提案。"},{"start":18563.542,"end":18565.623,"text":"草案案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":18591.331,"end":18596.536,"text":"條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．"},{"start":18608.486,"end":18612.11,"text":"誰在耽擾議事啊?自強我們剩下集訓台,我們就條文論條文,我們來討論... 繼續,繼續你們傻逼公益啦!"},{"start":18612.11,"end":18613.212,"text":"繼續你們傻逼公益啦!"},{"start":18613.212,"end":18613.792,"text":"繼續你們傻逼公益啦!"},{"start":18613.792,"end":18615.134,"text":"繼續你們傻逼公益啦!"},{"start":18615.134,"end":18615.755,"text":"繼續你們傻逼公益啦!"},{"start":18615.755,"end":18616.836,"text":"繼續你們傻逼公益啦!"},{"start":18628.889,"end":18649.42,"text":"草案．最重要的時機,你害怕什麼?你在逃避什麼?你在逃避什麼?不敢救人,不敢將自己的遺憾來說明,不敢將自己迴憲罵陣的條文來說明,這是什麼國會改革?這是什麼國會改革?"},{"start":18658.53,"end":18660.531,"text":"行使法部分條文修正草案案。"},{"start":18674.382,"end":18680.144,"text":"我們現在進行審查第52條第52條提案的台灣民眾黨有意見有意見反對阿要表達意見反對有意見要求處理送保留"},{"start":18702.06,"end":18709.126,"text":"五十二條處理的是聽證調閱委員會的保密義務這麼重要的條文你們不敢討論五十二條針對保密義務國家重要的機密應當在討論當中要盡好保密的義務你們害怕討論"},{"start":18729.086,"end":18756.676,"text":"好戰成者6人請放下反對者請舉手反對者請舉手反對者6人請放下現在宣告表決結果戰成6人反對6人戰成者反對者同訴那可否同訴時取決於主席現在本席表示反對所以表決結果戰成6人反對7人反戰成者少數不通過下一條第幾條"},{"start":18759.215,"end":18779.027,"text":"現在我們審查第53條第53條提案人台灣民眾黨提案傅坤祺及本席請問在場提案委員有沒有意見要補充請要說明啊53條指示的是調閱委員會或調閱專案小組的報告書報告書的提出非常的重要"},{"start":18783.49,"end":18794.056,"text":"第二位小組或是調查委員會的報告要進院會提出這麼慎重的一個決定行使居然不敢討論第53條提案不敢討論有民眾黨有傅昆吉有余宗憲提案人說明"},{"start":18802.821,"end":18818.094,"text":"感情案不敢說明針對調閱的結論的調查報告書要到院會這麼重要的程序問題為什麼不敢討論呢有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見"},{"start":18826.281,"end":18835.924,"text":"這個我們放到最後面處理等一下主席哪一條所以我們現在不用馬上處理我們現在先處理上會動議有委員提出上會動議現在進行表決舉手表決在場委員12人那現在開始表決贊成者請舉手"},{"start":18853.339,"end":18873.817,"text":"反對者6人請放下反對者請舉手反對者6人請放下現在宣告表決結果贊成6人反對6人贊成反對同訴可否同訴時取決於主席現在主席表示反對所以表決結果贊成6人反對7人本案贊成者少數不通過"},{"start":18881.604,"end":18883.325,"text":"徵定第59條之一徵定第59條之一"},{"start":18899.473,"end":18907.121,"text":"副委員坤崎本席提案。請問在場的提案人有無意向補充。"},{"start":18914.449,"end":18919.532,"text":"第59條之一依據傅崐萁委員提案供責聽證,要完備立法院功能的聽證權裡頭,針對聽證權的行使、秘密會議事項的規範這麼重要。第59條之一提案的委員有傅崐萁跟吳宗憲,為什麼都不敢說明呢?"},{"start":18940.422,"end":18955.189,"text":"在場出席委員12人,現在開始表決...應政權的秘密會議的程序這麼重要為什麼不敢說明呢?敢提案不敢說明,我再一次覺得匪夷所思反對者6人請放下,現在宣布表決結果"},{"start":18957.631,"end":18975.75,"text":"站成6人反對6人站成反對者同訴可否同訴時取決於主席現在主席表示反對所以表決結果站成6人反對7人本案站成者少數不通過堅定第59條之2"},{"start":18979.105,"end":18988.511,"text":"提案人、副分席委員及本席,請問在場提案人有無補充?你要說明一下,59條之二處理的是聽證會要經各委員會交委同意,或經各委員會全體委員多少的比例來聯署公益才能議決。聽證委員會的交開及議決這麼重要的法定程序,為什麼不說明呢?"},{"start":19000.619,"end":19008.426,"text":"這麼重要的聽證權的委員會的議決程序為什麼不說明不討論呢敢提案不敢討論來 贊成三位"},{"start":19015.872,"end":19038.069,"text":"請放下贊成者6人反對者請阻止聽眾會舉行的條件這麼重要的事情不討論提案委員有傅佩琪跟吳宗憲為什麼沒有辦法說明呢贊成反對同訴可否同訴時取決於主席主席表示反對所以表決結果贊成6人反對7人本案贊成者少數不通過"},{"start":19039.977,"end":19042.581,"text":"條文修正草案．一）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具"},{"start":19050.376,"end":19056.461,"text":"五十九條之三非常重要喔就是藐視國會罪喔就是藐視國會罪喔傅崐萁的提案是要送去坐牢還要罰錢吳宗憲的條文是不用罰錢這麼重要的關鍵條藐視國會罪為什麼不說明不討論呢因為就這個五十九之三條傅崐萁國民黨的版本"},{"start":19076.478,"end":19083.946,"text":"跟吳宗憲章牌的版本有很大的歧異之處,有很大的歧異之處,這條關鍵的條文為什麼不說明,這關鍵的條文為什麼不說明,藐視國會對的制度設計傅昆吉的主張跟吳宗憲是不一樣的。"},{"start":19100.221,"end":19102.724,"text":"戰成反對6人本件戰成則少數不通過徵定第59條之4"},{"start":19116.737,"end":19128.8,"text":"提案人傅昆齊委員及本席五十九條之四傅昆齊跟吳宗憲的提案聽證會出席人員的權益要如何規範也不敢討論因為你們在違反人權你們違反人權的條文不敢討論"},{"start":19135.662,"end":19138.164,"text":"條文不敢討論,採用舉手表決,在場出席委員12人,現在開始進行表決,贊成者請舉手"},{"start":19150.173,"end":19165.25,"text":"競選者6人請放下反對者請舉手反對者6人請放下現在宣告表決結果贊成6人反對6人贊成反對同訴可否同訴時取決於主席現在主席表示反對所以表決結果"},{"start":19166.732,"end":19178.229,"text":"戰成6人反對7人本案戰成者少數不通過現在審查徵定第59條之五提案人副坤崎委員59條之五也是藐視國會罪的配套"},{"start":19182.034,"end":19183.775,"text":"關於一般出席人員的陳述證詞提供資料相關的權益規範,藐視國會罪,因為你們違反人權,你們不敢討論。五十九條之五這麼重要,有傅崐萁跟吳宗憲的提案,你們為什麼不敢來報告討論呢?"},{"start":19206.424,"end":19232.072,"text":"不要忘記你們不是要舉手,贊成者6人。反對者請舉手,反對者6人請放下。現在宣告表決結果,贊成6人反對6人,贊成反對同訴,可否同訴時取決於主席。現在主席表示反對,所以表決結果,贊成6人反對7人,本案贊成者少數不通過。"},{"start":19232.992,"end":19238.453,"text":"檢責主席案。 59條之6也是對於聽證會要求民間人士不管是個人、私人、企業、民間團體都會被國民黨的版本要求來國會來進行很多欠缺法律程序正當程序的詢問"},{"start":19262.517,"end":19273.365,"text":"這麼重要違反人權違憲的條文五十九條之六提案委員有勝分期跟無通獻為什麼不敢進行條文梳理開放討論呢違反對四四五八五號為什麼不敢討論呢那採用舉手表決那在場出席委員十二人"},{"start":19284.591,"end":19294.874,"text":"反對者請舉手現在宣告表決結果贊成6人反對6人贊成反對同訴可否同訴時取決於主席現在本席表示反對表決結果贊成6人反對7人本案贊成者少數不通過"},{"start":19315.447,"end":19315.909,"text":"徵定第59條之7"},{"start":19319.725,"end":19337.313,"text":"五十九條之七是聽證會的聽證會紀錄要如何進行。聽證會要全程錄音錄影。聽證會要有相關的提案的程序。為什麼敢提案不敢討論。為什麼不關起的吳宗憲敢提案不敢討論。敢提案不敢討論。"},{"start":19347.779,"end":19358.704,"text":"提案人是傅崐萁跟吳宗憲敢提案不敢討論59條之7有關聽證會的聽證會紀錄如何製作在場出席委員12人現在開始表決贊成者請舉手贊成者6人請放下反對者請舉手反對者6人請放下現在宣告表決結果贊成反對均6人"},{"start":19376.411,"end":19396.561,"text":"可否同訴時取決於主席,現在主席表示反對。所以表決結果,贊成6人,反對7人,反案贊成者少數不通過。現在審查增訂第59條之8,提案的這部分紀委員基本上是提案的這部分紀委員基本上是提案的"},{"start":19399.422,"end":19425.203,"text":"聽政權的結論是否能夠公開給民眾知悉和為人民知的權利?國民黨團有附加啟剛吳宗憲提案為什麼不敢報告、不敢說明、不敢公開被討論檢驗呢?有委員提上會動議那我們現在開始進行表決以舉手表決在場出席委員12人現在開始表決贊成者請舉手"},{"start":19428.548,"end":19456.645,"text":"戰爭6人請放下反對者請舉手反對6人請放下戰爭者6人反對6人可否同訴時取決於主席現在本席表示反對所以表決結果為戰爭6人反對7人本案戰爭者少數不通過審查增訂第59條之9傅崐萁委員提案其本席提案"},{"start":19457.485,"end":19471.972,"text":"請問提案委員有意見補充為什麼不敢說明補充呢?提案人是傅崐萁跟吳宗憲現在聽證會聽證會如果有違反出席人員違反調查的要送你要把人家送司法機關要送監察院欸你要把人家移送司法機關跟監察院欸"},{"start":19477.675,"end":19491.74,"text":"那那麼這麼嚴重的事情你們為什麼不敢來報告、說明、討論呢?提案員是傅崐萁跟吳宗憲是在驚嚇啦敢提案不敢說明、不敢報告、不敢進公民檢驗那現在開始表決贊成者請舉手"},{"start":19502.663,"end":19506.887,"text":"副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副"},{"start":19528.943,"end":19546.03,"text":"因為楊瓊瓔委員不在場那本條一具楊瓊瓔委員提案通過請問有意義有意見有意見有意見提案委員沒有來說明他這個提案有點不知所云啊他這個提案讓人家看不懂啊"},{"start":19549.31,"end":19566.108,"text":"楊瓊瓔的第54條不知道在寫什麼出席人員有正當理由就是要把那個藐視國會擴及人民在場出席委員12人現在開始進行表決戰爭者請舉手有舉手戰爭者6人反對者請舉手"},{"start":19570.783,"end":19596.932,"text":"反對者6人請放下表決結果贊成反對均6人可否同訴時取決於主席現在主席表示反對所以表決結果贊成6人反對7人本案贊成者少數不通過審查第56條楊瓊瓔委員提案那請問本條各位有無異議有有異議有異議的話本條予以保留"},{"start":19599.588,"end":19620.339,"text":"對阿提案人不在他不知所餘的提案沒有人可以代表他說明那你們就要這樣強行讓他處理嗎現在總委員提出散會動議現在進行表決採用舉手表決在場出席委員12人贊成者請舉手6人請放下反對者請舉手"},{"start":19622.885,"end":19639.915,"text":"六人請放下表決結果贊成六人反對六人可否同訴時取決於主席現在本席表示反對所以表決結果贊成六人反對七人本案贊成則少數不通過徵定第56條之一楊瓊瓔委員提案本"},{"start":19645.339,"end":19654.683,"text":"本條 請問各位有異議?有意見啦 案 其他人不在啊他這個提案 蠻離譜的沒有補充沒有補充的話本條 因為有異議所以本條予以保留"},{"start":19668.177,"end":19675.444,"text":"現在進行散會動議表決在場出席委員12人現在開始表決贊成者請舉手贊成6人反對者請舉手"},{"start":19681.901,"end":19700.889,"text":"反對者6人請放下表決結果贊成6人反對6人可否同訴時取決於主席現在本席表示反對所以表決結果贊成6人反對7人本案贊成者少數不通過審查增訂第56條之二楊瓊瓔委員"},{"start":19704.19,"end":19715.989,"text":"等20人擬具提案,請問提案或聯署人有無補充說明?沒有,那本條以楊瓊瓔委員版本通過,有異議本條予以保留。"},{"start":19724.384,"end":19727.626,"text":"現在進行表決散會動議在場出席委員12人,贊成者請舉手。"},{"start":19755.065,"end":19777.084,"text":"本席表示反對所以表決結果贊成6人反對7人本案贊成者少數不通過審查第57條楊瓊瓔提案請問提案與連署人有無意見補充沒有那本條依據楊瓊瓔所提版本通過請問有異議有異見要求討論"},{"start":19779.142,"end":19796.087,"text":"本件有雙方意見不一致本條予以保留有委員提出散會動議現在進行表決在場委員12人現在開始表決贊成者請舉手贊成6人請放下反對舉手反對者6人請放下贊成反對6人"},{"start":19806.738,"end":19832.565,"text":"可否同訴時取決於主席。本席表示反對,雖表決結果贊成6人,反對7人。本案贊成者少數不通過。審查增訂57條之一。楊瓊瓔委員提案。請問在場提案與聯署人有意見補充。沒有。本條依據楊瓊瓔所提版本通過。有異議要求討論。"},{"start":19835.729,"end":19852.989,"text":"有異議要求討論因為意見不一致本條予以保留有二委員提散會動議那現在進行先清點人數啊主席就可以自己清點了人不多啦看得到了"},{"start":19854.717,"end":19855.057,"text":"出席委員12人"},{"start":19868.46,"end":19886.524,"text":"6人請放下反對者請舉手反對者6人請放下表決結果贊成反對均6人可否同訴時取決於主席本席表示反對所以表決結果贊成6人反對7人本案贊成者少數不通過審查第59第58"},{"start":19893.683,"end":19909.434,"text":"楊瓊瓔委員提案,請問在場提案人或連署人有意見補充?沒有意見補充,以楊瓊瓔委員版本通過,有異議要求討論。意見不一致,本條予以保留。因為有委員提散會動議,那現在進行表決。在場委員有12人,贊成者請舉手。"},{"start":19923.158,"end":19943.726,"text":"站成者6人請放下反對者請舉手反對者6人請放下站成反對均6人可否同宿時取決於主席本席表示反對所以表決結果站成6人反對7人本案站成者少數不通過審查第59條第59條楊瓊瓔委員"},{"start":19953.707,"end":19971.482,"text":"所提版本請問在場提案及連署委員是否要補充?沒有那本條依據楊瓊瓔委員所提版本通過有異議有異議要求討論意見不一致本條予以保留"},{"start":19977.333,"end":20005.893,"text":"三位動議有委員提三位動議現在進行表決在場委員12人贊成者請舉手反對者請舉手請放下表決結果贊成反對均6人可否同訴時取決於主席本席表示反對所以表決結果贊成6人反對7人反案贊成者少數不通過"},{"start":20007.834,"end":20027.107,"text":"那徵定第12章之一章名這個是賴氏堡委員提的喔藐視國會用專章處理藐視國會罪用專章處理這就是一個違憲的專章就是一個迴憲亂政的專章那為什麼這麼重要的藐視國會你們這麼重視專章的設置為什麼不討論呢為什麼不敢討論呢為什麼不敢來說明呢"},{"start":20037.174,"end":20041.859,"text":"這是賴氏堡要用一個專章處理藐視國會這非同小可國民黨團敢提案不敢來討論這才是藐視國會敢提案不敢討論"},{"start":20053.646,"end":20061.768,"text":"反對者請舉手這是賴氏寶提的藐視國會專家喔他的條文內容也跟國民黨團不盡相同喔那這個重大的歧義為什麼不討論呢反對7人本案贊成者少數不通過徵定第74條"},{"start":20078.007,"end":20087.398,"text":"其實四條之一就是賴世保的藐視國會罪的定義他的定義也不完全跟國民黨團一樣喔這麼重要的條文不值得討論嗎?雖然都是違憲但違憲的內容你們的版本跟賴世保不一樣為什麼不討論一下呢?"},{"start":20100.489,"end":20101.73,"text":"現在進行表決在場出席委員12人現在開始表決贊成者請舉手"},{"start":20113.224,"end":20141.044,"text":"戰爭者6人請放下反對者請舉手反對者6人請放下可否贊成反對軍6人可否同訴時取決於主席本席表示反對所以表決結果贊成6人反對7人反案戰爭者少數不通過審查增訂第74條之二賴氏堡委員提案請問在場提案及聯署委員有意見補充"},{"start":20142.565,"end":20164.996,"text":"應當要補充阿應當要說明阿這是藐視國會罪行為的認定及處理程序藐視國會罪行為之認定現在的狀況就足以構成藐視國會罪了啦阿你們都不敢討論這是對於藐視國會罪行為之認定及處理程序要擴大對於所有的行政官員這種違憲的條文所以你們不敢討論嘛"},{"start":20173.887,"end":20200.556,"text":"反對者請舉手反對者6人請放下就是因為每一個條文都違憲阿所以不敢討論阿主席表示反對表決結果贊成6人反對7人本案贊成者少數不通過審查增訂第74條之3那是保委員等20人提案請問在場的提案以及連署人有無意見補充"},{"start":20201.876,"end":20213.418,"text":"這個很離譜耶（74條之3如果官員不來立法院備詢就要動用刑法140條移送司法機關這個是國民黨的擴權要把不聽話的官員就送司法機關來處理喔這麼嚴重的條文不敢討論我再一次說敢提案不敢討論因為每個字每個條文都涉及違憲贊成者請舉手"},{"start":20229.941,"end":20230.624,"text":"條文修正草案不敢討論。"},{"start":20235.703,"end":20254.212,"text":"反對者6人請放下。表決結果贊成反對均6人可否同宿時取決於主席。本席表示反對。表決結果贊成者6人反對者7人。本案贊成者少數不通過。現在審查徵地第74條第4條。再次保委員提案。問在場的提案人以及聯署人有無意見補充。"},{"start":20263.597,"end":20265.698,"text":"沒有意見補充那本條依據在寫寫寫寫寫寫寫寫寫寫寫"},{"start":20293.936,"end":20300.622,"text":"條文修正草案．立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．"},{"start":20307.113,"end":20335.989,"text":"本席表示反對表決結果贊成6人反對7人本案贊成者少數不通過現在審查徵定第74條之五74條之五也非常關鍵喔這是藐視國會隊的配套對於行政官員來備詢有豁免的條款因為至於對於國防相關的外交機密不可以來洩露內容的豁免條款這跟所有的文武百官都相關喔"},{"start":20337.289,"end":20356.437,"text":"這麼重要的條文國民黨敢提案不敢討論敢提案不敢討論這攸關我們所有行政官員是不是具有豁免條款這麼重要的權限跟條文再一次譴責國民黨都是敢提案不敢說明不敢經過討論過程的檢驗"},{"start":20359.773,"end":20370.079,"text":"反對者請舉手反對者請舉手反對者6人請放下表決結果贊成反對均6人可否同訴時取決於主席本席表示反對表決結果為贊成6人反對7人本案贊成者少數不通過"},{"start":20389.032,"end":20399.637,"text":"現在審查徵定第75條之一楊瓊瓔委員提案請問在場的提案以及連署委員有無意見補充"},{"start":20401.109,"end":20409.815,"text":"沒有意見本條文具楊瓊瓊委員至於官員若不聽話就要送監察院來糾正糾舉台灣還促進台幣20萬元這麼重要的條文太恐怖了現在有委員提議上會動議現在進行表決在場出席委員12人現在開始表決贊成者請舉手"},{"start":20428.633,"end":20442.102,"text":"合格者6人請放下,反對者請舉手。反對者請舉手,反對者6人請放下。表決結果,贊成6人反對6人,可否投訴時舉證於主席。表示反對,表決結果,贊成6人反對6人,可否投訴時舉證於主席。"},{"start":20454.029,"end":20468.34,"text":"不聽立法委員的話會被刻意一百五十萬的罰金喔這合理嗎?昨晚藍秘書長需要說明一下對啊一年以下獨行一百五十萬的罰金我們法務部次長好像很想說明嘛對不對徒弟有在抽薑補的嘛對不對啊這次立法會提案做民眾家庭不敢來說明不敢來討論"},{"start":20478.467,"end":20496.799,"text":"敢提案不敢討論可以一百五十萬的罰金前所未見離譜的離譜的裁罰因為有委員提三會動議我們現在處理這種違憲亂政的提案敢提案不敢討論不敢經過討論的過程接受公民社會的檢驗贊成者請舉手贊成者六人請放下反對者請舉手"},{"start":20507.282,"end":20516.628,"text":"反對者可否同訴時取決於主席,本席表示反對。表決結果,贊成6人反對7人,本案贊成者少數不通過。"},{"start":20531.205,"end":20537.752,"text":"立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案15案,逐條均已處理完畢,作以下宣告。"},{"start":20548.604,"end":20560.589,"text":"等案就是你們自我閹割一條都沒處理叫做處理完畢啊這是哪門子的處理啊敢提案不敢討論敢提案不敢來辯論這是哪門子的處理法案前所未見逐條審查有這樣的嗎至少選擇自己一下吧"},{"start":20575.38,"end":20597.612,"text":"我們現在處理委員提出來的散會動議現在進行表決在場委員12人現在開始表決贊成者請舉手贊成者6人請放下反對者請舉手反對者6人請放下沒有啊"},{"start":20600.974,"end":20612.048,"text":"戰成反對均6人可否同訴時取決於主席主席表示反對表決結果戰成6人反對7人本案戰成者少數不通過"},{"start":20618.194,"end":20634.401,"text":"我可以請譴責案的提案說明嗎?我要進行說明。主席,我要求我是譴責案的提案人,我再一次進行譴責案的提案說明好嗎?"},{"start":20635.962,"end":20650.895,"text":"各位在線上所有關心台灣國會改革的公民朋友現在的時間是下午的2點16分我們今天看到在司法法制委員會從今天上午的9點開始我們的專輯委員吳宗憲委員意識不公不讓條文進行討論"},{"start":20660.002,"end":20664.988,"text":"違反所有相關的議事程式還敢說這是國會改革我們今天民眾黨團大家充分準備在場的相關部會的同仁也都準備了相關的內涵"},{"start":20676.3,"end":20696.266,"text":"要針對國民黨民眾黨所提的國會改革方案是否合憲是否合理是否可行大家都穿梭的準備非常的可惜前所未見的我們的召集委員在場他不聆聽多數委員在場表達的逐條討論之必要大體討論之必要一再限縮"},{"start":20704.448,"end":20706.549,"text":"草案的審議權,今天司法法制委員會就是一個國安會改革最大的放肆,最大的笑話,國民黨團敢提案,不敢討論,"},{"start":20723.098,"end":20726.141,"text":"不敢經由公民社會在線上公開探明的檢驗。今天吳宗憲、張蕙雖然是法律人但是法律的精神與專業蕩然無存。民主進步黨提出譴責案"},{"start":20744.119,"end":20745.98,"text":"對於國安會改革的會議召集人吳宗憲提起強烈的譴責案。我們也有對國民黨團的委員們今天提出了數十個條文,居然沒有半個立委敢站上說明台來針對自己提案的法案。"},{"start":20767.268,"end":20770.011,"text":"負責任的向全民說明負責任的對歷史負責這是一個讓國會被認為汗顏讓國會一笑台灣一笑國際的一課我們也要譴責民眾黨團民眾黨團今天同樣也提出國會改革的版本"},{"start":20792.111,"end":20794.693,"text":"但是民眾黨團的黃國昌總召依舊作為國民黨的附隨組織民眾黨人為小藍黨今天在場的每一個議案民眾黨都跟國民黨站在一起黃國昌連自己黨團提案的國會改革版本都不敢站上"},{"start":20817.387,"end":20820.749,"text":"說明台來對公民來說明他的內涵公開透明東西給毀線亂證才是真國民黨民眾黨的國會改革就是國會跨權我們提出對於主席的譴責案也要對於今天的整個審議的程式"},{"start":20841.34,"end":20842.661,"text":"荒謬、荒誕、讓國人覺得憤怨這是台灣國會史上最讓人不齒的一天我們再一次對吳尊憲、張偉的法律專業"},{"start":20856.69,"end":20859.471,"text":"以及議事程序的統一領導以及他主持的方法我們給予最強力的譴責也相信台灣社會的公民朋友一起來譴責對於昭雅的意識不公對於國民黨團毀憲亂政的條文敢提案不敢說明對於民眾黨團寧願淪為小藍黨"},{"start":20881.801,"end":20890.144,"text":"荒國昌文文傅昆奇的小弟而不敢為自己負責任的法案進行說明我們深表遺憾提出譴責。"},{"start":20901.344,"end":20919.725,"text":"草案案件事務委員委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":20924.804,"end":20948.71,"text":"草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等50人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等50人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等50人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等50人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等50人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊"},{"start":20958.619,"end":20960.08,"text":"草案案件"},{"start":20979.133,"end":20992.723,"text":"再審查一下再審查一下什麼人有擁有權,在這裡聊擁有權?過去8年沒有菸哥怎麼會今天,今天是要賦權不是扣權?對,才剛好有賦權"},{"start":20999.368,"end":21002.97,"text":"行使法部分條文修正"},{"start":21019.656,"end":21021.096,"text":"楊瓊瓊繼續吃啦楊瓊瓊繼續吃啦楊瓊瓊繼續吃啦楊瓊瓊繼續吃啦楊瓊瓊繼續吃啦"},{"start":21053.079,"end":21072.202,"text":"現在繼續開會討論事項第二案那我們繼續審查傅崐萁委員擬具中華民國刑法徵定第五章之一章名第141條之一及第141條之二條文草案等二案"},{"start":21072.936,"end":21091.91,"text":"主席啊﹖那個﹖法務部﹖對啊﹖次長要說明啊﹖刑法的部分﹖趁他要比較趕快叫他﹖不是啊﹖我那個﹖法務部的部分啊﹖讓法務部次長來說明一下﹖法務部啊﹖法務部次長啊﹖因為他做整個上午了﹖他現在﹖現在提案說明啊﹖請我找林委員的說明啊﹖"},{"start":21094.195,"end":21101.723,"text":"提案說明一下啦 這個刑法呢 這個不是我們的...沒有補充說明沒有補充說明沒有人要提案說明啊"},{"start":21114.631,"end":21119.492,"text":"草案不說明應該要列入藐視國會罪登記發言之後發言的時間是4分鐘每人以一次為限想要發言的委員請到前面登記"},{"start":21139.6,"end":21141.162,"text":"草案案件不必相送。"},{"start":21177.142,"end":21180.706,"text":"行使法部分條文修正草案．一）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等50人擬具"},{"start":21202.85,"end":21220.456,"text":"草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等50人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等50人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等50人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等50人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等50人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊"},{"start":21226.139,"end":21229.022,"text":"草案﹑立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案﹑立法院職權行使法部分條文"},{"start":21247.995,"end":21259.344,"text":"草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文"},{"start":21287.543,"end":21297.187,"text":"跟各位宣告一下,因為我們有一點問題要詢問一下,所以我們先休息三分鐘為什麼?你要詢問什麼?"},{"start":21301.024,"end":21309.492,"text":"那我來詢問一下,那算公關討論沒有關係啊?就是啊?什麼事情?"},{"start":21317.666,"end":21320.468,"text":"行使法部分條文修正"},{"start":21344.077,"end":21352.119,"text":"那我還沒提三萬多元啊。這表決我順利順利啊。我沒有提三萬多元。欸?這些啊?發生什麼大事啊?總航空商跟你搖個耳朵就不敢開會了?"},{"start":21386.878,"end":21409.729,"text":"草案案件及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法�"},{"start":21416.602,"end":21416.803,"text":"草案 。"},{"start":21442.273,"end":21444.839,"text":"草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文"},{"start":21461.8,"end":21480.047,"text":"草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊"},{"start":21486.636,"end":21487.979,"text":"草案案件事務委員委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":21534.256,"end":21538.94,"text":"草案 立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":21558.857,"end":21581.794,"text":"草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案）繼續審查委員楊"},{"start":21584.238,"end":21602.95,"text":"每一個都有東西每一個都有東西主席啊為什麼開會的時候突然停下來?愛文綺講"},{"start":21606.587,"end":21624.021,"text":"我們要看在座的民眾黨的態度國民黨的態度還有其他委員的態度到底是怎麼樣所謂的藐視國會罪聽證也可以不然也可以克以刑責這完全違反大綱5854制"},{"start":21626.297,"end":21626.997,"text":"審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具"},{"start":21644.324,"end":21657.631,"text":"那事由一所涉及的部會其實有很多在二跟三是無關的那我們現在在討論說有沒有必要讓開會事由一所涉及到的部會能夠先離開誰跟誰在討論誰跟誰在討論每一個人都可能表示國會被抓一關阿"},{"start":21662.213,"end":21662.894,"text":"事由一（二（三（"},{"start":21685.451,"end":21711.167,"text":"這部分我是說如果沒有涉及到誰沒有涉及嘛你講什麼我聽嘛反正就開會你坐在那邊沒有涉及誰沒有涉及助理可能沒有涉及啊你這款執行都要抓一官他們官員每一個都隨時該一官拋一句互分去講的話那你們民進黨找不到人來做部長這大家在討論嘛為什麼好迴避事項呢"},{"start":21715.58,"end":21742.508,"text":"只要兼徵章的吧。國會叫啥?不報私事也沒有這樣的處理啊。沒關係,要走的先走,我們要在國會最辦他們就好啦。高廉署以後有任何要走的就走沒關係啊。高廉署在要藐視國會最辦啊。你怎麼樣組這個會議啊?"},{"start":21747.339,"end":21768.113,"text":"國外自主可以送好伴啊?主席就開始大體討論啦反正我們柯總召也講了五分鐘了就讓他繼續再講三分鐘嘛大體討論沒有大體討論幾分鐘就幾分鐘剛才是程序問題嘛好不好好那就主席可不可以開始啊給我們柯總召讓他開始嘛主席可以嗎一年獨居啊"},{"start":21776.707,"end":21798.082,"text":"你給他做主席,做那個職名你就給他處理喔,啊這種大於討厭你不敢處理。剛才那匪憲亂政事,從來沒有看到如此荒謬的一刻你都敢處理啊。你以為他從來沒有這樣搞過啊。這種重大的法案,要強行通過,連討論都不討論。深信也沒有。"},{"start":21806.086,"end":21815.232,"text":"沒有看過這種狀況,我們大家坐在這裡,到底是開會還是會議?不是啦,我是要跟大家說就是,因為我們剛剛是,因為剛剛柯市長這很清楚嘛,開會通知發來,每一個案子都跟他們有關係,都是國會改的案子,為什麼國會改的案子到最後就說?"},{"start":21831.403,"end":21831.903,"text":"條文修正草案案"},{"start":21857.539,"end":21879.584,"text":"因為現在第一已經審查完畢了,剩下二跟三,那第一所涉及到的許多部會,那有沒有必要繼續留下來?那我剛剛只是說想要釐清一下這件事情。我認為沒有必要,因為這個判,整個所有行政團隊都有這幾大關係嘛。他們是也會心心膽怯啊。正常在這個地方講錯話,把他拽去關。這怎麼會沒有關係呢?"},{"start":21883.891,"end":21889.92,"text":"主席啊,你為什麼不敢繼續審查其中?你剛剛叫公眾提商務動物,你們提商務動物看到沒有?請黃旭爺來當代理主席吧。"},{"start":21902.213,"end":21925.869,"text":"現在是休息時間還是會議時間我詢問一下如果說大家有我想說我先處理這件事啦那不然還是說我們現在先暫時休息一下我來把這件事情處理好好不好因為我跟各位報告也有官員說他們官他們是不是可以先回去了這個主席就是才是就好了"},{"start":21926.549,"end":21927.329,"text":"條文修正草案．立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案"},{"start":21950.7,"end":21956.963,"text":"《立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案》案 《立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案》案"},{"start":21979.313,"end":21998.5,"text":"你問到你吧對啊主席總召不進的召委就不敢主持了你為什麼大家上台講話嘛"},{"start":22004.173,"end":22013.856,"text":"總召不在場,傅昆旗不在,吳宗憲就無能了。傅昆旗總召,終於回來了,所以會議才能進行。"},{"start":22034.434,"end":22039.938,"text":"我們吳宗憲總召都不敢做決定。副總召您看見了他多大的壓力啊。"},{"start":22058.616,"end":22085.601,"text":"現在說明就副總裁提供的說明嘛你所謂藐視國會罪是怎麼樣?你講的要讓民眾黨找一代部長每一個都下去關我們已經審查完畢了那我們現在審查的是開會事由二跟三那我是希望說開會事由一所涉及到的這些部會跟二三無關的我覺得可以先離開要說明啊"},{"start":22088.161,"end":22090.682,"text":"關於立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案,請勿模仿"},{"start":22115.438,"end":22134.574,"text":"高百祥議事處長可不可以離開?楊育淳法制局長可不可以離開?司法院黃副部長可不可以離開?總統留下來 本來就這樣啦沒有啊 問主席不能裁釋是主觀人主的問題是主席爆出來的是主席爆出來的那陳明堂覺得他跟這個無關 他可以走嗎?黃副部長有關係啊"},{"start":22147.292,"end":22152.689,"text":"我剛剛已經宣告現在是休息時間阿 我不懂為什麼大家一直有意見"},{"start":22153.82,"end":22180.692,"text":"那你到底要休息到什麼時候啊?因為你今天一直在等啊!因為你等副總召啊!我總有這個權限宣布休息啦!現在以後是副總召不在我們就要無限制休息啦!那等副總召一個人!這次開會我們就不會吃飯!我們餓肚子也要把這件事情搞清楚!"},{"start":22184.355,"end":22194.742,"text":"總可以,總可以,你就沒事就好。你可以小意啊,某些不敢主持,所以請大家慢慢離席。欸可以啊,阿你怎麼回事啊。阿這現在衝一半欸,吊車。"},{"start":22204.381,"end":22225.311,"text":"現在還是休息時間齁那因為各位官員因為剛剛民進黨的總召一直堅持說要各位官員留下來那我想說既然堅持不讓我處理這件事那就請大家留下來以後會留到國會社會要反思期要把他抓去大家嚇死了運動下來看你們搞什麼鬼啊看你們國會在搞什麼鬼啊"},{"start":22240.751,"end":22246.154,"text":"一多久了?還有30秒用早說我這話大小聲?"},{"start":22256.888,"end":22258.348,"text":"請第一位登記發言柯建民委員發言"},{"start":22289.355,"end":22312.688,"text":"主席各位委員我今天在這裡要嚴重的指控主席乃至於國民黨和民眾黨這麼重大的國會改革法案竟然可以不聽討論也不可以處理好話言什麼都不可以然後這個這樣就要出委會你覺得這樣出委會各位國民黨是光彩的嗎對民眾黨是光彩的嗎"},{"start":22316.107,"end":22335.916,"text":"這才是表示國會嘛,你審判要不好好審。這是立法院有史以來最可恥的一天,就是隱秘的譴責。同時呢,剛才主席不敢主持會議停頓下來,這哪些人可以離開,哪些人不離開。"},{"start":22337.403,"end":22346.541,"text":"你們離開的時候你們要了解他現在是要處理什麼東西呢?處理藐視國會罪在藐視國會罪裡面包括"},{"start":22348.203,"end":22350.443,"text":"職權行使法部分條文修正草案案案 。"},{"start":22379.38,"end":22406.476,"text":"一律白痴狀（一口地笑這樣嚴肅的事情你除了法案請你看看我相信你懂得中文的有所謂的藐視國會罪藐視國會罪的時候他同時他裡面包括聽證聽證的時候不知所云或是最後執行的時候"},{"start":22407.591,"end":22434.838,"text":"他可以為稀微陳述要處3年以下,20萬以下,總資訊的時候141條12,總資訊的時候就以所致事項引力或民事不可稀微陳述處1年以下。這個法院長都要抓去關啦,不是只有官員啦。然後呢,前一項官員不可以反執行,我今天要告訴各位,沒有所謂不可以反執行的。"},{"start":22436.377,"end":22456.849,"text":"你有沒有發現職權行使法第18條已經改了,這極問極答。所謂極問極答就是沒有反執行啊。過去吳敦英當行政議員的時候我做兇漢啊。那鄉下又大鄉,人又大層。全部在窮化。何大夫怎麼反執行?這極問極答大家共用這個時間啊。本來18條原則的規範是執政黨不可以執行的。"},{"start":22459.4,"end":22487.215,"text":"後來給他三分三答後來給他幾分幾答這個很清楚這國會的權利是這樣的你既然可以不可以反執行的話要抓一些官啊這何其離譜啊還有上對下的關係既然一來委員的職權就是監督國會製成國會但是權利分立原則中沒有所謂上對下的問題存在"},{"start":22488.782,"end":22504.149,"text":"楊瓊瓔委員你在那邊傻笑尖笑也罷你自己回家好好看看你的你寫的盤本反而是都讓你讓國會所以你隨時都用司法權我們國內有做什麼誠意可以議決什麼在623條你已經寫很清楚"},{"start":22515.307,"end":22518.089,"text":"立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":22541.472,"end":22568.833,"text":"國民黨民眾黨帕密奧維克這是歷史上在發生第二次的時候可能要30年以後所以吳宗盛委員你是法律人你不要受益於傅總召你應該有基本的法律常識以及自己的良心否則的話只是把你擺在一個非常尷尬而且讓你會得到罵名的好不好謝謝"},{"start":22571.631,"end":22574.876,"text":"科總召,那我們接下來一位請鍾嘉斌委員發言。"},{"start":22584.451,"end":22613.187,"text":"主席在場的委員先進我們列席的政府機關首長官員我就不在意贅述我想今天已經很清楚為什麼整天的議程我們要求大體討論後的逐條審查一定要有充分的討論不然的話本席上午在大體討論的時候我們所講的我這邊要做一些修正大家知不知道到底我們現在在處理刑法第一是一條之一之二的這樣的修正案跟"},{"start":22613.877,"end":22639.052,"text":"之前國會立法院職權行使法有什麼關聯嗎?我說過今天剛剛主席宣稱審查完略在主條的時候沒有進行一一的討論的時候那我們看到了這15案當中除了第12案第12案內內容的提案立法院職權行使法是在處理國情之文"},{"start":22640.111,"end":22664.207,"text":"其他的14個案當中那麼他這裡面有一個核心的我們所說的藐視國會但是這每個版本還是不一樣經過上午的討論之後逐條之後還是不清楚到底哪些版本跟那些版本有什麼差異其實呢現在民眾黨的黃國昌黃昭偉黃總昭呢他在這裡"},{"start":22665.228,"end":22679.744,"text":"他其實民眾黨本的提案當中並沒有將國會聽證調查權連結到藐視國會加以科刑法他是限定於行政法這符合憲法585號的一個內容"},{"start":22680.973,"end":22707.193,"text":"具體的內容怎麼討論,我們可以再討。但是目前以副委員跟公務委員的提案當中,明確的定在刑法第141條之一或之二。這裡面,我們看看裡面的條文。我剛剛講過了,前面幾個版本,像我們的召委,我們的吳主席,吳委員,他的提案,就是法律人的提案,沒有去預約585案。他裡面,關於他的第10"},{"start":22710.054,"end":22726.366,"text":"十四案他都對立法院職權行使法第25條及26條他也在處理聽證調查的制度而處理到職勳權的問題但是他明顯的職勳權就沒有連結到刑法所以我們上午處理那麼多個案子十四個案子"},{"start":22727.403,"end":22752.398,"text":"民眾黨黨團沒有碰觸到刑法無中線無招委的案子沒有碰觸到刑法但是其他委員的呢一一的我先就這裡面包括副委員剛剛還有翁委員的這裡面說到他分成什麼他分成聽證會程序授職訊時以及受調查時請問授職訊時是誰有沒有報告人民"},{"start":22753.385,"end":22778.692,"text":"受調查時有沒有包括人民聽證會的程序除了官員之外有沒有人民必須依聽證調查的職權要求你到聽證會現場接受國會的調查或質詢如果是那麼他就會涉及到會受到三年以下有期徒刑的一個刑罰那這個是四至五八五號所不可同意的"},{"start":22779.52,"end":22805.873,"text":"因此今天我們一直希望法務部要來表示意見但是呢昭緯一直很希望請法務部離開為什麼因為法務部的意見書面意見你們在公聽會有提到啦我剛已經念過一次了我們憲法法庭113年度憲判制第1號判決還有4至602和792的裡面提到的立法院行使調查權如涉及到限制憲法所保障的人民基本權利"},{"start":22807.689,"end":22833.081,"text":"這裏面很清楚不僅應有法律之依據且在該法律之內容必須明確且應該符合比例原則及正當之法律程序我們看看翁委員的條文翁委員條文非常厲害我早上也陳述過了他這裏面包括什麼包括其他的事項請問一下請問一下我們最新法定"},{"start":22834.127,"end":22861.348,"text":"第141條之一,如果民眾在立法院聽證會的時候接受質詢,他無故缺席、拒絕答覆、遞決提供資料、虛弱不實或其他藐視國會的行為。法律人很清楚啊,其他藐視國會的行為你沒有寫出來,刑法要如何以苛責。所以我覺得今天,我們因為上午的關係,我們的立法院職權行使法沒有進行逐條的深入的討論,"},{"start":22862.557,"end":22879.662,"text":"大家根本不清楚這些版本之間的差異不清楚民眾黨版本沒有刑法不清楚我們吳昭偉的版本沒有刑法也不清楚那目前我們看到的這個刑法的內容完全易脫了、超越了、抵觸了甚至585號的決議所以我就覺得說我們的大體討論待會還有主條我們用主條之後我們認真來落實主條的討論好 謝謝那接下來我們請審法會委員發言"},{"start":22899.506,"end":22918.4,"text":"主席各位同仁我想在針對這個刑法的這兩個藐視國會罪章的修訂之前針對今天的這個剛才的這個會議的進行在這裡是表達最深的遺憾這個程序我認為這程序是有瑕疵的這個"},{"start":22921.892,"end":22946.628,"text":"每一個條文大家有意見有意見之後是不是要保留有人覺得說那就保留有人說不要保留我不要被保留提案不要被保留啊有的反對的認為說我反對但是我要處理啊這個就是你就會議就應該要就這個部分要進行處理要不要保留也要進行處理結果我們的主席齁就這樣子一路就就就就說保留"},{"start":22948.396,"end":22969.336,"text":"所以這個我想這個過去不管在這個所有的議事齁即使發生肢體衝突的議事過程中該按照議事規則進行宣讀的都要宣讀該按照議事規則該處理的都要處理所有的停職討論付諸表決要保留什麼全部都要有一個表決的過程這個都要留記錄的"},{"start":22971.136,"end":22996.915,"text":"這個部分在這裡先對今天這個這個會議過程所有的瑕疵本人先在這裡表示意見留作存查未來這個這個有關這樣子的會議的程序他是不是具有合法性我想還有留下這樣的瑕疵這個合法性會有很大的爭執接下來我就這個我們接下來要討論的這個刑法所謂藐視國會罪"},{"start":22999.504,"end":23024.423,"text":"這個罪我看起來是先不就學理啦我光看這個條文齁這個行為主體不明構成要件的部分也大有問題裡面充滿了不確定的法律概念完全違背罪行法律主義這裡面這個以翁委員的版本來講於立法院接受質詢時這個罪到底行為主體是誰啊"},{"start":23027.543,"end":23054.497,"text":"與立法院接受質詢。」那所謂質詢在刑法裡面的質詢的定義是什麼啊在哪一個法律裡面目前有這個有質詢對於質詢這兩個字詢問算不算在立法院裡面路上問遇到問好算不算質詢質詢沒有法律這個法律概念至少在定義上面我沒有看到有定義接下來行為主體不明"},{"start":23056.054,"end":23080.857,"text":"誰在立法院接受質詢啊?這個最基本的這個刑法的這個行為主體構成要件法律效果這樣子的最基本的結構都沒有然後但是很可怕他是藐視國會罪他是處以刑責的我們看到這個我們副總召的版本裡面他就"},{"start":23082.961,"end":23103.88,"text":"這個不只是受質詢的來參加聽證會的來參加聽證會的的人這個行為主體也是不明來參加聽證會接受質詢你也要處三年以下有期徒刑你的構成要件裡面只有客觀的構成要件它沒有主觀的構成要件喔他說"},{"start":23105.925,"end":23128.738,"text":"為虛謂不實之陳述。」所謂虛謂不實的陳述就是說你所講的東西跟事實不符就叫做虛謂不實的陳述所以你今天如果講錯了他就是藐視國會我以為我以為今天股票漲到一萬九千點我在台上講說今天股票破兩萬點我以為破兩萬點結果回去查沒有不好意思那就藐視國會罪囉"},{"start":23134.332,"end":23160.964,"text":"因為你只有客觀的構成要件你沒有任何主觀說意圖怎麼樣或者說故意為都沒有沒有主觀的要件你只有一個客觀的構成要件再來所謂裡面提到反質詢在傅委員的這個第二項裡面提到前項官員反質詢是行為連質詢都沒有定義的反質詢的定義到底是什麼什麼樣叫做反質詢由立委定義嗎"},{"start":23163.248,"end":23186.333,"text":"時間到了更重要的是這樣子的立法完全就違背了權力分立的精神你把立法院跟行政院這些權力分立設計彼此之間有所制衡結果你在這個制衡的過程中你把這個權力說啊那要由司法府安把司法拉進來作為行政立法之間這個這個質詢手段的一個裁決我個人認為非常不妥"},{"start":23188.154,"end":23207.347,"text":"但這樣的立法我們等一下還是我們的主席如果還是按照這個這個剛剛的這個前面的這樣的處理方式齁我想那這就是在歷史上面就真的留下記錄到底這樣子的案子是怎麼過的那就是我們承認檢察官主席通過的好謝謝好好謝謝那我們接下來請陳俊宇委員發言"},{"start":23229.824,"end":23253.811,"text":"好 謝謝主席那我們在場所有委員各位首長這經過一番的時間的這個所謂的這個實質的審查逐條審查可是並沒有看到這個提案人的一個說明那也沒有這個我們在場委員詳細的一個討論的這個過程"},{"start":23257.132,"end":23285.47,"text":"所以如果要說已經完成審查我們是覺得真的是蠻奇怪的啦齁那我也希望說我們這個吳宗憲召委應該針對這個部分也要做一個適度的調整讓整個議程在經過大家實質的討論之後完成的審查應該才是民眾所期待的一個民主的程序啦齁那在這個我們刑法大體的討論部分"},{"start":23287.805,"end":23309.238,"text":"憲法第22條裏面有寫到翻人民之其他自由及權利不妨礙社會秩序公共利益者均受憲法的保障在刑法的第一條行為之處罰以行為時的法律有明文規定者為限"},{"start":23311.277,"end":23333.617,"text":"居宿人身自由之保安處分一同。那針對藐視國會使用刑法其相關的定義為何?範圍為何?什麼人適用?誰來做這個決定構成?這個程序是什麼?那在以推動國會改革的這個"},{"start":23335.725,"end":23351.659,"text":"草案案件的大旗幟之下我們修法我們應該去反思的是這些是人民所賦予我們立法委員的權利嗎?那假使擁有這份權利我們是不是也該相對的受到制衡?"},{"start":23353.459,"end":23366.488,"text":"在這個五權分立的精神之下如果我們立法逾越了監察那麼是不是應該就整體的憲政體制的調整是怎麼樣的改革來思考這個課題這是我覺得我們對於這個"},{"start":23371.805,"end":23393.306,"text":"目前我們要推動的這個刑法大體討論所提出的一個部分意見那在我們國會改革的這個過程裡面應該不是無端的坐地喊價甚至要作為要癱瘓我們政府運作的一個政治手段"},{"start":23395.029,"end":23408.056,"text":"應該要經過通盤的檢討參照憲法所設定的權限的這個架構才能合理且合乎憲法所促成的這個立法院有效行使自身的職權"},{"start":23409.246,"end":23436.83,"text":"那立法院作為國家最高的立法機構我們應該更加來維護自身的這個品格回應社會對於立法委員的這個期待我相信這才是我們在這個委員會裡面要所要進行的這個司法改革或是我們希望能夠做相關法條做調整最終最終的一個目的那也能夠符合民眾的期待"},{"start":23438.288,"end":23467.056,"text":"那在國會的這個樣貌展現民主價值的這個本質民主化的一個歷史深度也應該要影響到國會的一個樣貌那民進黨也曾經是國會的少數政黨當然也曾經是國會的多數政黨那民進黨也不斷的在做檢討虛心的做這個檢討希望能夠在整個過程裡面"},{"start":23468.038,"end":23492.883,"text":"福和民眾的期待我相信這是多數也是大多我們在關心民主政經正民主進步的一個所有民眾所期待的一個目標那我也期待說我們在這個委員會裡面應該對於這個部分來重視好以上謝謝陳委員那我們接下來請沈委員發言"},{"start":23506.681,"end":23523.91,"text":"審柏楊的大體發言我大概提四個問題因為大概就只有四分鐘而已第一個是邏輯的問題第二個是比較法的問題還有最後是文藝的問題以及到底權利義務的問題這四個問題就好了因為這個國會改革的方案實在太複雜了沒有辦法一概而論第一個現場邏輯問題就是說"},{"start":23525.931,"end":23540.856,"text":"不斷地我們就聽到就是說民進黨在2016年有提到這個國會改革的版本所以現在如果我們不做就是打假球那這其實是很奇怪的講法國民黨以前有反對總統直選現在要不要繼續反對以前也反對政黨法現在要不要繼續反對"},{"start":23541.616,"end":23555.292,"text":"以前有認為要前置言論自由,現在要不要繼續前置?這跟以前做過什麼事情有什麼關係?以前民進黨提出這個國會改革方案的時候馬上就有專家學長還包含民進黨自己的委員出來說這可能會有擴權的問題"},{"start":23556.953,"end":23583.879,"text":"當時我們的態度是什麼OK那就只好再討論因為的確有問題然後中間又經過幾次大法官的解釋所以才沒有繼續推下去啊就那麼簡單的事情為什麼都可以用因為你以前提過這個版本所以這個就要通過這根本就不是法律實質的討論啊你要討論的應該是構成要件還有他能不能夠達到這個目的他的手段是什麼這才是我們坐在這邊的理由吧而不是把過去到底做過什麼事情來當作理由"},{"start":23584.699,"end":23611.274,"text":"第二就是比較法的問題不能夠任意的把其他國家的法律就認為說台灣可以適用我前面就提過了美國沒有質詢所以美國最主要是調查美國也沒有檢察院所以他調查必須要配合這個所謂的國會藐視我們的國會藐視在有檢察院在有司法機關之下其實很難設計嘛所以講白話文一點如果我們真的要調查的話大概可以跟我們的吳兆偉一樣去考檢察官啊"},{"start":23612.295,"end":23625.695,"text":"當檢察官就可以做很多的調查不是嗎?又或者說可以去監察院也可以做調查那為什麼我們需要立法院作為一個第三個調查機關這個調查機關跟其他的調查的競合在哪裡?這不是應該要好好討論的事情嗎?"},{"start":23626.84,"end":23643.174,"text":"然後再來就是文藝上的問題這一個藐視國會這我剛剛講過到底邀請過多少的刑法學者來討論這一個文藝的問題到底什麼叫做反質詢說法理由說成口舌之快口舌之快是什麼成口舌之快所以要被處罰嗎"},{"start":23644.395,"end":23660.12,"text":"這是哪一門子的法律原則所能夠設計出來的刑責?更不要講說在我們刑法違憲罪上面所謂的虛偽陳述隱匿事實本來就有很多的疑義包含主觀、客觀、主客觀混合說這些有在這邊好好的討論嗎?沒有嘛"},{"start":23662.001,"end":23662.581,"text":"案）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具"},{"start":23683.533,"end":23695.407,"text":"所以我認為在這邊我們第一個連最基本的文藝問題目的問題手段能不能達成都做不到的時候就不用再繼續往下討論才對最後一個就是所謂藐視國會罪它是一個擴張的權利"},{"start":23698.43,"end":23710.179,"text":"因為他可以用這樣的方式去威脅官員所以如果你今天稍微審一下口舌之快我就想要處罰你問題就在這裡這一個擴權在其他的國家他會有相對應的義務美國有這種藐視國會罪他的義務是什麼"},{"start":23713.982,"end":23733.074,"text":"他們有倫理審查的各式各樣的委員會甚至有立法委員只要偽造文書被起訴直接就被踢出國會他會有非常強烈的自律的審查他才可以去搭配這個國會的調查權我們有嗎?我們從偽造文書然後一直到交易股票"},{"start":23734.074,"end":23759.477,"text":"不會啊還可以繼續留在國會的殿堂不是嗎我們的自律在哪裡如果沒有這樣的一個自律的規則的話為什麼我們可以來做調查我們連一個人在國外投票到底是誰按下去的調查都做不到了然後現在去討論這個國會調查權然後再去討論根本不是配合調查權的藐視國會罪我們的法律目前是定義在質詢裡面喔這完全是不符合比較法規則的我先翻譯到這邊謝謝大家"},{"start":23760.518,"end":23763.799,"text":"謝謝省委員那接下來我們請吳思耀委員發言謝謝主席首先針對今天會議的荒腔走板意識不公違反意識規則本席表達非常沉痛的抗議也要給予最強烈的譴責海水退去了才知道誰沒有穿褲子國民黨民眾黨在害怕什麼"},{"start":23789.707,"end":23806.768,"text":"他們一來害怕不讓民進黨的版本一起並案審查因為沒有比較沒有傷害他們害怕條文一旦跟民進黨的版本對應起來就會清清楚楚的凸顯國民黨民眾黨的版本毀憲亂政"},{"start":23809.977,"end":23825.178,"text":"第二（為什麽要害怕今天逐條討論呢?逐條討論不就是要討論嗎?主席強硬的動輒都要看國民黨大黨編副坤祺委員的臉色。"},{"start":23826.397,"end":23845.202,"text":"沒有辦法經過逐條討論檢驗的國會改革方案他是進步的嗎?他是合憲的嗎?他是正確的嗎?今天到現在為止的會議我們進行了40次的散會動議的表決因為民主進步黨認為這種沒有辦法進入逐條討論的討論它不是討論啊"},{"start":23852.694,"end":23869.097,"text":"今天也提出了兩次的對於主席亦是不公的譴責案因為主席不是公正的主席也不是我所認識的有法律人的專業跟背榜的吳宗憲主席"},{"start":23869.958,"end":23889.922,"text":"所以我們也提出了兩次譴責案。今天的國會改革方案在司法法制委員會的會議從早上到現在下來我們正清楚的看到國民黨民眾黨藍白和正聯手的合作出演繹出什麼叫做藐視國會"},{"start":23892.843,"end":23894.485,"text":"現在處理的條文是刑法。天啊,藐視國會罪。國民黨認為職權行使法規範的還不夠,要提到刑法。"},{"start":23905.522,"end":23930.169,"text":"對於不聽話的官員剛剛沈芳慧委員講得非常好汪小林委員提的這一個刑法的140條條文他的行為主體不明他的構成要件不明他更欠缺正當的法律程序所以要把他入刑法不聽話的官員不如國民黨民眾黨的義的官員就被處以30萬的罰還還要坐牢三年"},{"start":23934.952,"end":23948.7,"text":"天啊天啊天啊這是什麼無限上綱的國會擴權我再一次說國民黨所提的藐視國會罪違反了大法官誓字585號325號大法官729號的解釋文大法官633號的解釋文每一項都是毀憲亂證我們來看看憲法告訴我們什麼"},{"start":23965.262,"end":23977.452,"text":"事字第585號就是針對立法院的調查權最清楚的解釋的一號韓文我們不要看得太複雜小草黨也聽不懂我們就看看585號事字案"},{"start":23979.824,"end":23999.526,"text":"五八五號誓字案大法官憲法的精神告訴我們立法院調查權是立法院行使憲法職權所必要之輔助性權利其基於權利分立與制衡原則立法院調查權所調查之對象或事項並非毫無限制"},{"start":24001.227,"end":24023.734,"text":"憲法也告訴我們除意調查之事項必須與其行使憲法所賦予之職權有重大關聯否則不能濫役的濫權使用五八五號也告訴我們要尊重行政特權五八五號釋字案再一次告訴我們我快結束了"},{"start":24025.254,"end":24029.617,"text":"如調查權之發動及行使調查權之組織各案調查事項之範圍各項調查方法所應遵守之程序與司法救濟程序等等應以法律為適當之規範。憲法再一次告訴我們國會的調查權必須有正當的法律程序必須符合法律的比例原則立委再大也不能比憲法更大"},{"start":24055.296,"end":24067.986,"text":"事自五八五號告訴我們的就是我們嚴肅的在面對立法院的調查權我們的界線要劃在哪裡我再一次重申民主進步黨的版本也有立法院的調查權我們在第八章分兩節院會有院會層級的調查委員會委員會有委員會層級的調閱小組我們樣樣像像要規範一個可調查"},{"start":24082.757,"end":24092.945,"text":"有限制要保密的國會調查權這才是符合憲法的授權謝謝下一位我們請莊瑞雄委員發言我們同時宣告就截止發言登記"},{"start":24105.56,"end":24132.932,"text":"謝謝主席還有我們在場各位美麗朋友各位委員請大家手上有的請翻到第89頁我來挑戰一下我們副總召我同樣我也挑戰一下我們主席還有在場各位的一個先進我為什麼講說今天我們吳主席吳宗憲主席今天的處理的議事程序荒腔走板"},{"start":24133.832,"end":24161.212,"text":"也就是說在大理討論完我們在主條的時候那麼多提案人在為什麼我一直主張要讓他們提案說明我請主席我很謙卑的請你來聽一下就是說提案人啊你像比如說如果這個案子是你吳宗憲提的你應該上來解釋你在這個藐視國會罪裡面為什麼第一個我一定會質疑你嘛你為什麼要放在第141條之一"},{"start":24163.554,"end":24164.656,"text":"141條你去把它翻開刑法第141條他在講的是在侮辱公務員而毀損除去污損章貼公共場所的文告141條在講這一些而且他的法定刑他是拘役"},{"start":24184.503,"end":24210.209,"text":"結果你把他放一個141條之一我們副公局總召我為什麼說也要再挑戰他的原因在什麼地方荒腔走板為什麼我說他荒腔走板他在141條之一裡面啊你分成兩個之一跟之二啊你把兩個罪障你把他兩個條文你把他獨立出來了關於人民的部分你是處三年以下有期徒刑人民的部分"},{"start":24211.345,"end":24226.595,"text":"主席人民的部分到立法院來這整個國會調查權的發動就當然就是立法院來發動立法院發動這個國會調查權以後呢人民的部分來了沒有老實講三年以下有期徒刑你不要141條之二還原的部分一年以下"},{"start":24233.624,"end":24242.706,"text":"為什麼對人民是處3年以下?對官員就1年以下?是怎樣?恐嚇一下,啊割蝸丸比較好這樣嗎?老百姓殺無色3年以下,通嗎?理由在什麼地方?主席你幹過檢察官我們都在講說程序上最重要的我們在整個行律訴訟法的規定"},{"start":24261.854,"end":24269.918,"text":"這163條之二裡面是你如果要傳喚證人或者調查證據法官認為沒有必要直接把你裁定就把你給撥回掉了現在立法院不是比法官還大我們這個叫施設刑堂叫你來你就要來官員要來活該嘛你要當官你要接受立法院的監督還稍微那個設成還稍微通啊我一直在講那個設成跟範圍啊可是人民的部分"},{"start":24288.991,"end":24295.353,"text":"理敢給我不來三年以下虛偽陳述三年誰來判斷立法院自己來判斷這樣哪通嘛這違背法理嘛這主席你不要助紂為虐這樣這種案子不要因為你們的同黨然後是你們的總召提出來你到底這個有什麼多大的一個壓力呢我講這個是我們一個法律人裡面用膝蓋想反射都知道的啊"},{"start":24314.349,"end":24314.369,"text":"案 。"},{"start":24329.548,"end":24334.212,"text":"你幹過檢察官你要很清楚欸行使訴訟法第180條也講得很清楚欸你很多人你變成很多證人被縱然是法官傳問到庭他還是可以拒絕證言啊我今天如果是跟被告或者陳為被告或者自訴人的配偶或者子緝血親三親二親等的有這些關係的我根本就可以拒絕證言啊"},{"start":24355.202,"end":24368.113,"text":"不是嗎?或者說成為被告或者是出人的代理人我也根本連理都不理你啊立法委員在國會有言論免責權愛怎麼說謊就怎麼說謊愛怎麼罵就怎麼罵把民眾找來了以後嘿嘿不能給我說謊我立法委員是言論免責權的你人民沒有你活該所以三年以下"},{"start":24384.025,"end":24395.355,"text":"官員又變一年所以我的重點在什麼地方我的重點就是說提案人為什麼要做提案說明的原因在這個地方為什麼法案要討論就在這個地方所以沒有辦法有人跟我回答"},{"start":24401.684,"end":24415.515,"text":"主席幹部檢察官你也沒辦法回答啊不是嗎我們刑事訴訟法裡面法官在調傳喚證人的時候你如果說法官認為那個兩兆當事人不管是公訴檢察官或者說律師或者是事務人事務代理人傳喚證人來"},{"start":24417.731,"end":24435.297,"text":"今天我是法官的話我直接把你給剝掉啦我認為這不必要啦而且法律還不是我說要就是要我說重要就是重要所以我要講的主席先不要急我在講的就是是就是要注意時間就是因為主席你今天主席這樣主持這樣會議喔"},{"start":24437.415,"end":24443.617,"text":"荒腔走板：立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．立法院職權行使法部分條文"},{"start":24472.835,"end":24473.256,"text":"條文修正草案案"},{"start":24496.906,"end":24500.989,"text":"行使法部分條文修正草案．立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．"},{"start":24520.437,"end":24537.773,"text":"將嚴重違反執行的受執行者送到法院是由法院在進行審理這並不是由立法院來進行審理這我必須要首先要強調更何況大法官沒有解釋並不代表不可以用刑法來"},{"start":24538.994,"end":24564.247,"text":"條文修正草案案 案件,在其他國家其實都有看到有藐視國會處以刑責的處罰的相關的規定。所以如果說我們今天有這樣的立法是叫毀憲亂真,那麼其他民主國家是不是他們的做法也是違背他們的憲法呢?我覺得這個我認為其實民進黨委員這邊基本上沒有用功的去看看其他國家的立法就"},{"start":24565.047,"end":24590.494,"text":"一昧地認為我們現在所提的法案是違憲亂證這其實是大有問題那話再說回來在今天我們所審查的法案裡面其實就議事規則本來就是大家對於法案有意見就可以提出就有意見就保留之後再進行政黨協商這有什麼違反議事規則的倒是今天這個民進黨委員"},{"start":24591.634,"end":24608.789,"text":"在整個開會的過程中不斷的干擾議事。剛剛還好意思說提了40次的這個散會表決對這是你們的權利但是這難道沒有構成像立法院行為法第7條裡面脅迫他人為議事的作為或不作為嗎今天又還干擾"},{"start":24610.325,"end":24636.884,"text":"今天還干擾這個議事的殿堂然後呢亂發言不尊重主席的委員﹏請不要干涉發言的人請尊重發言好不好來時間先暫停麻煩一下剛剛發言也都沒有人干涉嘛可不可以就讓他把話說完好不好可不可以不要這樣子不要干涉發言的人請各位可以去看看立法院行為法第7條裡面"},{"start":24638.465,"end":24645.114,"text":"是如何的規定?當你們要去指責別人的時候請你們也先修正自己的這個行為。那麼必須講像這樣子的情況是"},{"start":24651.929,"end":24670.691,"text":"國民黨之前就先做的嗎?我們基本上今天在整個的這個議事的處理上面已經非常尊重民進黨的這個委員的相關的意見請大家回想一下在2021年當時國務機要費的這個相關的規定除罪化他們五分鐘就已經送出委員會了"},{"start":24672.943,"end":24686.832,"text":"草案一律一修一分鐘就已經通過了他沒有尊重當時在野黨的委員嗎在這樣的情況之下他們還好意思說今天在整個議會的程序的處理上面沒有尊重他們"},{"start":24687.993,"end":24703.461,"text":"簡直是滑天下之大機。那麼我必須說在今天這樣子的一個重要的國會改革的推動法案的這個程序當中我們當然希望每一步都能夠走得很穩健。那麼對於相關的案子的討論還有事前的這個閱讀準備這不是應該之前就應該做的功課"},{"start":24711.141,"end":24735.661,"text":"明明知道說今天的案子條文非常多你要逐條討論是可以逐條討論問題是就是說在這種不理性的情況之下有可能進行逐條討論嗎?更何況按照一時規則裡面本來就是有意見之後我們大家就進行保留協商所以呢我必須再強調就是在我們今天所有提的法案當中沒有什麼違背憲法這有沒有違背憲法不是民進黨委員這裡說的算"},{"start":24737.563,"end":24743.024,"text":"除非說他們已經跟司法院大法官都已經套招好了,否則的話沒有這樣的問題存在。"},{"start":24762.425,"end":24780.175,"text":"謝謝主席我想就是針對今天的這一個案子的討論大體上我想我講就是比較正常的回應一些事情就是我個人針對的就是在這整個提案裡頭"},{"start":24781.596,"end":24795.212,"text":"我認為文藝不清,第141條之二為什麼是文藝不清呢?就是說我們講的比較那個空洞還有就是說這個文藝不清的部分就是"},{"start":24796.613,"end":24815.921,"text":"關於行政官員在立法院受到立法委員的質詢的時候,那就其首次的事項為隱匿或是明知不實,可是仍然虛偽的陳述。我覺得這一個文藝事實上,就是議事講的,非常的空洞,非常的模糊。"},{"start":24816.821,"end":24841.814,"text":"還有本來我們立法委員在執行的時候就有相同的一個規範可以來執行那如果你用刑責的話是不是會變成一個我們施設的一個刑堂呢這個是大家要考慮到就是說社會大眾對於我們的一個觀感立法院的一個觀感尤其已經有監察院可以來調查了那"},{"start":24842.534,"end":24843.195,"text":"條文修正草案事項﹚一）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具"},{"start":24859.187,"end":24885.886,"text":"就是很多社會大眾的一個那個提醒那當然以後我們知道就是說這樣子的一個提案其實跟社會大眾有很大的一個脫節脫離所以我們就不再提了那如果就是說立委的權限可以這樣子無限的一個擴張的話那試想就是台灣人民對我們立法院我們所有的立委的一個期待我想大家是會非常非常的一個失望謝謝"},{"start":24895.286,"end":24913.718,"text":"現在第二案大體討論已經進行完畢我們現在開始進行逐條審查在進入逐條審查討論之前本席先做審查進行方式的說明因為國會改革相關法案已經討論多時"},{"start":24918.171,"end":24933.087,"text":"各界還有很多不同的意見那為了回應各界要求進一步完成國會改革的希望而且兼顧議事的和諧那保留民進黨因為提案協商時的空間所以稍後主條如果有不同意見"},{"start":24934.755,"end":24953.9,"text":"我們在這裡要很嚴肅講一個事情歐委員這個版本是連總統都可以抓起來總統找那個議員幾問幾答,幾個不實陳述或其他藐視國會的行為都可以抓,所有人都可以抓,包括香港六七條,可以照民間人士來背刑"},{"start":24956.377,"end":24968.265,"text":"可以可以啊上台我們來辯論沒有關係嘛我今天我今天是問主持人不是問柯文昭我們就主條嘛我們就主條嘛我們就主條嘛我們就主條嘛我們就主條嘛我們就主條嘛"},{"start":24983.516,"end":25001.389,"text":"草案 擬具主席檯或主席檯或擬具主席檯或擬具主席檯或擬具主席檯或擬具主席檯或擬具主席檯或擬具主席檯或擬具主席檯或擬具主席檯或擬具主席檯或擬具主席檯或擬具主席檯或擬具主席檯或擬具主席檯或擬具主席檯或擬具主席檯或擬具主席檯或擬具主席檯或擬具主席檯或擬具主席檯或擬具"},{"start":25007.054,"end":25012.881,"text":"反對保留我要求每一條都處理我們就表決沒關係只有三條不是十條三條只有三條你還要見到執行執行局把總統叫抓起來關欸"},{"start":25023.541,"end":25024.101,"text":"條文修正草案．立法院議員"},{"start":25043.944,"end":25045.966,"text":"條文修正草案條文修正草案條文修正"},{"start":25061.677,"end":25072.062,"text":"這麼離譜的體驗這是動議要求表決處理是刑法喔這是刑法這是刑法這個是人民的權利運用刑法3條2條3條2又不是20條30條50條"},{"start":25080.305,"end":25081.928,"text":"也不足條討論﹑也不表決﹑就是要強行通行通過。"},{"start":25095.607,"end":25099.552,"text":"有意義有意義有意義有意義有意義有意義有意義有意義有意義"},{"start":25114.668,"end":25116.309,"text":"有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見有意見"},{"start":25142.116,"end":25142.516,"text":"草案案"},{"start":25159.825,"end":25166.128,"text":"為什麼要保留為什麼主張保留你對你自己提的案子主張保留這個很奇怪為什麼傅冠祺總召您代表提案國民黨團你給我上台說明要保留"},{"start":25175.613,"end":25190.719,"text":"二）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．一）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．一）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．一）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案．一）繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正"},{"start":25204.705,"end":25205.646,"text":"條文修正草案等3案"},{"start":25225.84,"end":25251.505,"text":"我們現在直接進行大體討論希望討論的委員請到發言台進行登記每位發言委員發言時間4分鐘,以次為限。好,謝謝。保留一下好了,這沒有什麼好討論的,這個是立法院正確的問題而已,要用他們處理嘛,好不好?這問題是想"},{"start":25256.282,"end":25257.183,"text":"審查委員楊瓊瓔等50人擬具"},{"start":25276.561,"end":25296.049,"text":"提案人羅志強委員台灣民眾黨魯明哲委員請問在場委員或提案人有無要說明的要提出說明沒有黃委員總理要送你了這條非常的基本針對選舉"},{"start":25303.089,"end":25319.61,"text":"本來就應該要透過記名投票的方式互選我們連地方議會的政府議長都已經是記名投票了沒有什麼道理立法院現在還是用這樣的方式來加以進行我相信這應該是共識謝謝"},{"start":25322.674,"end":25345.126,"text":"主席我也要回應一下那既然民眾黨這麼重視院長副院長的選舉結果你們民眾黨當天也不敢進來投票是怎麼樣你提這個案子有正當性嗎就在這個會期新國會的院長副院長的選舉行使上你們民眾黨選擇什麼樣子的態度你們沒有愧對人民嗎你今天敢提這個案子"},{"start":25346.207,"end":25361.841,"text":"你們自己在韓國瑜院長江啟臣副院長的幾次選舉投票當中民眾黨是採取什麼樣的一個立場你們連投票都不敢今天敢來提這個案子真的是可以啦我們可以繼續處理啊"},{"start":25363.994,"end":25390.874,"text":"他們有提案因為羅志強委員提案民眾黨提案以及魯明哲委員提案的內容都相同那請問這三部分的提案請問是否同意有意見有意見意見不一樣那本條予以保留那審查第一條之一"},{"start":25394.128,"end":25421.511,"text":"第一條之一提案人台灣民眾黨黨團提案委員黃國昌及本席等6人有另提修正動議請問提案人有無意見補充沒有意見補充那本條是否依據黃國昌委員及本席等6人所提的修正動議通過有意見有意見有意見有意見"},{"start":25427.612,"end":25450.009,"text":"主席問一下吧本案都保留了你還處理修正動議這是什麼主持阿?什麼東西阿?你要優先處理修正動議再處理本案因為兩條是不同的條文阿一條是第一條一條是第一條之一阿我們現在已經審到第一條之一了你就繼續進行你的議程嘛在干擾議事不要在意阿"},{"start":25451.561,"end":25470.051,"text":"請問一下第一條之一的部分是否依據修正動議通過?沒有,有異見大家有異議?有異見如果雙方意見不一的話那本條予以保留立法委員互選院長辦法"},{"start":25472.863,"end":25480.303,"text":"修正草案三案逐條均已處理完畢,作以下宣告,全案審查完畢,"},{"start":25481.349,"end":25502.659,"text":"並案彌具審查報告提請院會公決那本案須交由黨團協商院會討論時由吳昭久委員出席說明條次引述條文部分文字法制用語本案並沒有審查完據因為本案根本沒有被審查本案根本沒有被審查本案完全沒有被審查"},{"start":25506.881,"end":25515.487,"text":"主席你的結論有意見對方是不是該處理?那個是不是該處理?請議事人員先讀提案。我請一位來代理主席。不是因為有一個提案是要譴責我。那請一位來。你要回避就連表決回避。"},{"start":25536.696,"end":25537.858,"text":"二）繼續審查委員傅崐萁等52人擬具"},{"start":25555.319,"end":25583.601,"text":"那你就連表決也迴避了對啊你是當事人啊你當然要迴避啊怎麼變成王育敏第二呢本人就是要迴避啊因為這跟你的利害相關啊奇怪國民黨派出來的招委都是這樣不知道利益迴避為何務還在推國會改革不知利益迴避為何務改革和國會改革提出臨時提案"},{"start":25585.509,"end":25591.571,"text":"今日十五日法制委員會召集委員李昀的法部為進行法案主條審查時來我們現在進行表決現場出席委員有12位來贊成理事提案的請舉手6位反對"},{"start":25615.273,"end":25620.816,"text":"審查委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具〈立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案〉案。"},{"start":25657.016,"end":25657.976,"text":"條文修正草案．立法院主席"},{"start":25679.991,"end":25694.616,"text":"來來來來來來來"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}