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tatto一個社會主宰,也參加一個廟宇的揭扁。但是賴總統在臺南的時候,他有做幾項重大的政策宣誓。除了行政院拍板,臺灣是六大區域的產業和生活圈以外,他特別提到臺南。"},{"start":51.621,"end":70.736,"text":"總統說國家會大力的支持臺南的交通建設尤其在鐵路地下化還有立體化國家會支持讓臺南的交通建設脫胎換骨總統特別提到現在臺南的國際機場在疫後已經完全沒有國際線"},{"start":72.435,"end":98.363,"text":"那這一點我也希望交通部能夠支持是 這個我們要來努力爭取台南機場如果可以有國際線我相信很多台南鄉親都會比較方便我希望交通部能夠全力支持這一點另外剛提到了總統說國家會支持台南的鐵路立體化和地下化那現在地下化大概原台南市區以外再加上永康這個已經算定案"},{"start":99.807,"end":120.493,"text":"我今天要跟部長講的就是我們新式鐵路立體化他現在台南市政府把可行性的評估已經送布了希望交通部能夠儘速審查因為你知道新式吧南科之所在啦全世界最重要的半導體"},{"start":121.713,"end":148.952,"text":"高科技產品的生產基地就在新市南科結果交通進出還要停鐵路平交道這實在是非常的落伍那目前新市鐵路的立體化高架化的意思大概全長有4.6公里它可以消除現有的新市五個鐵路平交道從此新市就不會有鐵路平交道還有一個地下的寒凍"},{"start":150.452,"end":152.995,"text":"總經費大概142億3700萬跟交通部希望爭取到85億85.6億在前任的李孟岩部長的時候經費他已經有答應"},{"start":165.486,"end":194.281,"text":"重點是臺南市政府也已經完成了可前進研究現在就送到我們交通部來那我希望部裡面是不是能夠加速審查報告委員這個他的可前進研究剛送到交通部那這個部分我們來加速因為我知道這個南科的發展速度相當的快那周圍的都市發展也很快這個部分我們來加速尤其他因為新式的鐵路高架他連那個車站都必須要往北移"},{"start":195.206,"end":204.703,"text":"因為他那個車型的坡度的問題那完北宜就會有一個新的新市的車站移到現在新市北邊的農業區那未來抱歉"},{"start":208.857,"end":231.73,"text":"接下來的新站周邊就會有開發包括停車場包括轉運站新增也會有商業區營造新市北邊就北新市的生活圈其實也等於就是很靠近南核了所以這個計畫其實非常重要希望交通部能夠盡速予以審查好這個部分我們來努力加速你好我要跟部長討論一個問題現在我們在"},{"start":237.287,"end":250.696,"text":"前幾年我有諮詢過交通部部裡面也提出了我請運燃所林記國所長就是第一個我們現在到底對車輛如何課稅我們的燃料稅"},{"start":252.199,"end":253.5,"text":"五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":275.524,"end":284.011,"text":"後來很多的建議嘛到底那你要不要改為隨郵徵收或者是隨里程徵收或者是隨車重徵收結果運輸研究所變了兩筆錢2017年和2018年花了700多萬去做研究報告那研究的結果就是各有優缺點"},{"start":299.454,"end":322.418,"text":"所以就是不建議改變嘛,是不是這樣?那這個研究報告這塊碼要下?跟委員報告一下,當時的研究我們比較了目前的隨車徵收、隨伍徵收跟隨理財徵收。你花了700多萬,拿了一堆報告。綜合的評估是目前現階段還是維持隨車徵收。就是什麼都不要變?"},{"start":322.858,"end":325.359,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":353.254,"end":361.125,"text":"好那電動車到底會不會科徵道路使用費?什麼時候科徵?你要如何科徵?"},{"start":362.572,"end":389.139,"text":"跟委員報告所以這也是為什麼當時綜合評估因為考慮到整個車輛的你回答我現在問你電動車電動車未來就是會參照因為現在還在政策鼓勵那未來等到他普及到一定的程度還是要隨車就是排照稅的方式他會按照他的排氣量然後來這個換算應該要合理徵收多少的所以電動車一樣是隨車徵收對那按照排氣量"},{"start":389.679,"end":391.121,"text":" bicyC.電動車的馬力電腦軟體可以改你知道嗎"},{"start":404.497,"end":421.026,"text":"adequ?我瞌睡的時候我當然會用低馬力給你瞌嘛那我再調一下馬力就回來了我不知道但是你政策要對外說明要跟社會溝通現在因為很多電動車主他很惶恐"},{"start":421.994,"end":450.552,"text":"到底我會不會課稅那我要如何課稅我剛網路上有很多的影片很多人在估算有的也有算到一年可能要繳十幾萬的稅我不知道或七萬八萬的稅都很可怕你這樣會影響會不會影響電動車的銷售會不會影響造成現有車主的惶恐我不知道但一定會啦對不對"},{"start":451.837,"end":455.159,"text":"報告員目前的那個電動車的車輛數還沒有到達需要課稅的狀況所以應該還要一段時間那你要幾%才開始課?"},{"start":461.877,"end":481.382,"text":"我們有規劃幾百萬?目前目前就是說電動小客車的部分大概是將近這一個9萬輛那目前 幾百萬?暫爆白數幾百萬?600多萬輛它是這一個將近這一個9萬輛的話大概是一個1%多啦"},{"start":484.203,"end":506.936,"text":"目前數量並不多目前我們對於這個電動車科契纜費的一個規劃就是說原則上就是說到目前還沒有實質去影響到契纜費這個相關分配的一個部分所以我們要繼續免稅這個上次在這個交通委員會大概也公文報告說目前預估的年期可能是在2030"},{"start":508.413,"end":510.675,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":524.324,"end":525.425,"text":"二、審查114年度"},{"start":542.152,"end":548.819,"text":"還有你要把那個名字改掉啦,你說電動車課徵棄燃稅你剛這麼講嘛,那電動車都沒吃氣,你要棄燃稅。這會讓很多車主造成誤解啦,這筆錢其實是所謂的,應該算道路養護費啦,使用者互惠是公平的。"},{"start":562.512,"end":564.493,"text":"五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算．"},{"start":586.241,"end":590.684,"text":"台灣以後不管是汽油車電動車都是隨車徵收未來未來是部長大概台灣是獨一無二全世界很少隨車徵收因為這是很不公平而且這個是最落後的一種課程方式"},{"start":614.113,"end":642.528,"text":"因為你既然叫道路使用費那我買車你應該按照使用的量數啊對不對你買車如果不開勒,里程數低一樣都繳同樣的稅當然對你們來講課程最簡單啊是不是這樣你計算成本比較低嘛目前是採一個平均的概念啊確實有些人是沒有用的這樣哪有什麼平均概念這個就以前就搞這一套搞下來到現在啦"},{"start":643.934,"end":644.315,"text":"二、審查114年度"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":344,"blocks":[["林委員俊憲：（10時9分）謝謝主席。本席邀請交通部陳部長。"],["主席：陳部長。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["林委員俊憲：部長，有一件事，你知不知道13日，就是3天前，賴清德總統有回到臺南，他去一個社會住宅的動土，也參加一個廟宇的揭匾。賴總統在臺南的時候有做了幾項重大的政策宣示，除了行政院拍板臺灣是六大區域的產業和生活圈以外，他特別提到臺南，總統說國家會大力支持臺南的交通建設，尤其在鐵路地下化還有立體化，國家會支持，讓臺南的交通建設脫胎換骨。總統也特別提到，現在臺南的國際機場在疫後已經完全沒有國際線，這一點我也希望交通部能夠支持。"],["陳部長世凱：是，這個我們要來努力爭取，臺南機場如果可以有國際線，我相信很多臺南鄉親都會比較方便。"],["林委員俊憲：我希望交通部能夠全力支持這一點。另外，剛提到總統說國家會支持臺南的鐵路立體化和地下化，現在地下化，大概原臺南市區以外，再加上永康，這個已經算定案了。"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["林委員俊憲：我今天要跟部長講的就是我們新市鐵路立體化，現在臺南市政府把可行性評估已經送部了，希望交通部能夠儘速審查。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["林委員俊憲：你知道新市吧？南科之所在，全世界最重要的半導體、高科技產品的生產基地就在新市南科，結果交通進出還要停鐵路平交道，這實在是非常的落伍。目前新市鐵路的立體化，高架化的意思啦！大概全長有4.6公里，它可以消除新市現有的5個鐵路平交道，從此新市就不會有鐵路平交道，還有一個地下的涵洞，所以總經費大概142億3,700萬，跟交通部希望爭取到85.6億。這在前任的李孟諺部長的時候，經費的部分，他已經有答應了。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["林委員俊憲：重點是臺南市政府也已經完成了可行性研究，現在就送到交通部來，我希望部裡面是不是能夠加速審查？"],["陳部長世凱：好，報告委員，它的可行性研究剛送到交通部，這個部分我們來加速，因為我知道南科的發展速度相當快，周圍的都市發展也很快，這個部分我們來加速。"],["林委員俊憲：對，尤其因為新市的鐵路高架，連車站都必須要往北移，因為車型坡度的問題，往北移就會有一個新市的車站移到現在新市北邊的農業區，未來新站周邊就會開發，包括停車場、包括轉運站，也會有新增商業區，營造新市北邊，也就是北新市的生活圈。其實也等於很靠近南科了。所以這個計畫其實非常重要，希望交通部能夠儘速予以審查。"],["陳部長世凱：好，這個部分，我們來努力加速。"],["林委員俊憲：另外我要跟部長討論一個問題，在前幾年我有質詢過交通部，部裡面也提出，我請運研所林繼國所長，第一個，我們現在到底對車輛如何課稅？我們的燃料稅，在2018年的時候，交通部希望把它改名字，他們說這個名字容易造成誤解，改為「公路養護修建及安全管理費」，實際上使用者付費，也就是使用道路的人要付這筆錢嘛！現在是隨車徵收，後來很多的建議，到底你要不要改為隨油徵收，或者是隨里程徵收，或者是隨車重徵收。結果運研所編兩筆錢，2017年、2018年花了七百多萬去做研究報告，研究的結果就是各有優缺點，所以就是不建議改變，是不是這樣？這個研究報告，我也會寫！"],["林所長繼國：跟委員報告一下，當時的研究，我們比較了目前的隨車徵收，以及隨油徵收、隨里程徵收……"],["林委員俊憲：你花了七百多萬，拿了一堆……做了一個報告。"],["林所長繼國：綜合的評估是，目前現階段還是維持隨車……"],["林委員俊憲：就是什麼都不要變？"],["林所長繼國：然後未來就是要看技術、里程跟車重的技術發展。"],["林委員俊憲：這一看幾十年了啦！你不會變啦！你知道嗎？官僚就是說不要變我比較沒事，我才不會自找麻煩，你會提出說你希望改變，你不是自找麻煩嗎？怎麼可能？所以不會進步就是這樣啦！","那我再請教，現在電動車的數量增加，它越增加的話，當然用油的車就減少，那電動車到底會不會課徵道路使用費？什麼時候課徵？你要如何課徵？"],["林所長繼國：跟委員報告，所以這也是為什麼當時綜合評估，因為考慮到整個車輛的……"],["林委員俊憲：你回答我，現在是問你電動車……"],["林所長繼國：電動車未來就是會參照，因為現在還在政策鼓勵，那未來等它普及到一定的程度，還是要隨車，就是依照牌照稅的方式，它會按照它的排氣量，然後來換算應該要合理徵收多少的道路……"],["林委員俊憲：所以電動車一樣是隨車徵收？"],["林所長繼國：對。"],["林委員俊憲：按照排氣量？"],["林所長繼國：是，就類似現在的……"],["林委員俊憲：電動車有排氣量嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：馬力，應該是馬力。"],["林所長繼國：馬力，馬力會換算。"],["林委員俊憲：你知道電動車的馬力，電腦軟體可以改你知道嗎？"],["林所長繼國：這個就是技術上面要來……"],["林委員俊憲：你知不知道？對不對？我課稅的時候，我當然會用低馬力給你課嘛！那我再調一下，我的馬力又回來了。"],["林所長繼國：這個在車輛型式安全審驗時就確定了。"],["林委員俊憲：我不知道，但是你政策要對外說明、要跟社會溝通，現在很多電動車主很惶恐，到底我會不會課稅？那我要如何課稅？我看網路上有很多影片，很多人在估算，有的也有算到一年可能要繳十幾萬的稅，我不知道啊！或7萬、8萬的稅，這很可怕。"],["陳部長世凱：應該不會到這麼高。"],["林委員俊憲：你這樣會不會影響電動車的銷售？會不會造成現有車主的惶恐？我不知道，但一定會啦！對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，目前電動車的車輛數，還沒有到達需要課稅的狀況，所以應該還要一段時間。"],["林委員俊憲：好，那你要幾%才開始課？"],["林司長福山：跟委員報告一下，目前電動小客車的部分，大概是將近9萬輛，那目前……"],["林委員俊憲：幾%？占掛牌數幾%？"],["林司長福山：六百多萬輛，它是將近9萬輛的話，大概是一%多，數量並不多。目前我們對於電動車課汽燃費的規劃就是說，原則上到目前還沒有實質去影響到汽燃費相關分配的部分……"],["林委員俊憲：所以我們還繼續免稅？"],["林司長福山：這個上次在交委會大概也有跟委員報告說，目前預估的年期可能是在2030年。"],["林委員俊憲：2030年才會開始徵收電動車的……"],["陳部長世凱：2030年如果車子有達到一定數量的時候就會，但是它增加的數量沒有那麼快……"],["林委員俊憲：到底是幾%啦？目標是幾%？"],["陳部長世凱：目前是一點多%啦！"],["林司長福山：對，目前是一點多%。"],["林委員俊憲：你目標到幾%才課徵？"],["林司長福山：這個有算一個數量，是不是委員容許會後提供給你？"],["林委員俊憲：機密喔？"],["林司長福山：沒有，比例沒有記得非常清楚啦！"],["林委員俊憲：你沒有記？一個數字也沒有記住？你的幕僚都沒帶來？"],["林司長福山：跟委員報告，因為今天是審……"],["林委員俊憲：還有你要把那個名字改掉啦！你說電動車課徵汽燃稅，你剛剛這麼講……"],["陳部長世凱：它就不可以叫汽燃稅。"],["林委員俊憲：電動車就不需要汽油，你要課汽燃稅？"],["陳部長世凱：沒錯，它沒有燃料。"],["林委員俊憲：所以會讓很多車主造成誤解啦！這筆錢其實是所謂的道路養護費啦！"],["林司長福山：道路維護跟安全管理的費用。"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["林委員俊憲：使用者付費是公平啦！你車子有開上路，其實都應該繳這筆稅，只是政策要清楚啦！"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["林委員俊憲：你自己有沒有看到，網路上有一堆影片在推算未來電動車的課稅金額？你自己有沒有看到？"],["陳部長世凱：我沒看過這個影片。"],["林司長福山：我們有了解，如果需要的話，我們適時來……"],["林委員俊憲：因為大家亂猜嘛！就一直猜嘛！因為我看到有7萬、8萬、9萬、10萬，所以我們就有一點……"],["林司長福山：這個部分我這邊跟委員補充報告一下，馬力的部分主要在車輛型式安全審驗就核定了，目前這個換算基本上是有一定的比例，應該不會有……"],["林委員俊憲：所以臺灣以後不管是汽油車、電動車，都是隨車徵收？"],["陳部長世凱：未來，未來是。"],["林委員俊憲：部長，大概臺灣是獨一無二啦！全世界很少隨車徵收，因為這很不公平，而且這個是最落後的一種課徵方式，因為你既然叫道路使用費，那你應該按照使用的量數，對不對？你買車如果不開呢？里程數低，一樣都繳同樣的稅。當然對你們來講，這樣課徵最簡單，是不是這樣？你稽徵成本比較低嘛！公務人員如果比較懶惰一點……"],["陳部長世凱：目前是採一個平均的概念啦！確實有些人是沒有用到這樣……"],["林委員俊憲：哪有什麼平均概念，以前就搞這一套到現在，但重點是你要先讓社會清楚你的政策方向，跟社會要有對話，你要開一個說明會或公聽會之類的，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["林委員俊憲：謝謝部長，謝謝兩位。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林委員。","接下來有請陳素月召委發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":444,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-15","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","林國成","林俊憲","陳素月","蔡其昌","游顥","何欣純","徐富癸","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","楊瓊瓔","牛煦庭","許智傑","鍾佳濱","黃健豪"],"page_start":379,"meetingDate":["2024-12-16"],"gazette_id":"1140501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140501_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查114\n年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算；三、審查114年度中央政府總預\n算案關於交通部運輸研究所單位預算；四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部鐵道局及\n所屬單位預算；五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交\n通作業基金─鐵道發展基金分預算【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1140501_00014"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}