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airports."},{"start":272.857,"end":273.477,"text":"好,那下一張齁,那個"},{"start":299.349,"end":327.091,"text":"因為你所其實做的事情我覺得都還可以值得鼓勵你看你們還做一個分析就是那個北美經過桃園機場往返亞太市場的探討所以你們研究的是台灣可以飛到華盛頓跟波士頓所以長榮也在評估當中那很多的航空公司其實他們都靠自己收集data啦其實也很辛苦啦也不是說馬上那麼準確啦如果從我們整個機場"},{"start":328.773,"end":340.931,"text":"大數據來做一個客觀的分析我想就會可以更精確所以你們這一套應該類似我剛剛提到的就是比較大數據比較所有的total的資料做一個整體的分析嘛"},{"start":342.291,"end":369.289,"text":"我們就是已經累積大概十幾年每年都會持續去收集國際上主要的一些機場特別是跟我們有競爭的一些機場包括它的一些機場的服務能量飛航的航班航空公司航線我們就是可以每年會從這裡面透過大數據的分析針對一些國內民航發展重要的一些議題我們會去做大數據分析"},{"start":371.89,"end":373.951,"text":"另外一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算。"},{"start":392.361,"end":418.236,"text":"像最近我是在聯合航空打算從高雄飛東京那從東京再飛美國那我們一直希望可以從有機會從高雄飛美國那當然他們自己也要去收集這些data然後去做一個分析那看航空公司也很正常啦了解的生意沒人做嘛但是你如果數據有夠人手有夠我想是他們盡管去背吧"},{"start":419.389,"end":430.806,"text":"所以這個部分是不是我們南台灣往返歐美市場的研究、探討可不可以拜託運營所也報告給我們各位,跟我們討論一下"},{"start":431.732,"end":431.752,"text":"對,這個其實..."},{"start":454.262,"end":476.608,"text":"我現在去了解運輸研究所真的是做的事不錯真的是可以值得鼓勵所以還是一樣先給你拍個手不過還是說給你比較多的工作不好意思希望你來還有第三項其實24小時的機場真的對南台灣來講是有必要"},{"start":478.795,"end":505.784,"text":"那我們小港機場受限於宵禁所以我們一直困擾著高雄機場的發展那我們其實可以知道全世界各國各大城市都有如果是城市機場有宵禁的話大部分都還會有就是在比較遠附近的地方去選擇一個24小時的機場你可以看到日本"},{"start":507.173,"end":514.136,"text":"中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會"},{"start":534.721,"end":562.48,"text":"台北呢你可以看到台北跟桃園的搭配也是一個是有宵禁一個是沒宵禁那高雄呢真的是受限於宵禁的問題所以我們很希望有機會可以有一個南台灣24小時的機場這個部分不知道有沒有機會再拜託運營所再給我們做一個看能不能幫我們找出一塊地啊看哪裡比較適合"},{"start":563.936,"end":588.799,"text":"跟委員報告一個機場場址的這個選擇跟評估事實上它涉及到要需要一個比較專案的計畫做研究跟分析我知道早年也曾經探討過台南的七股那個場址是不是適合但是經過研究分析當然它還是有面臨一些問題所以沒有辦法去推動"},{"start":589.54,"end":612.201,"text":"所以這個部分我是不是建議說當然我們可以跟民航局跟幹部市政府一起我們來跟他們做技術上面的一個參與提供一些我們專業上面的一些意見跟他們一起來做討論我想你們在105年也有做過高雄縣政府那時候請你們做過那當然後來沒有結果"},{"start":616.064,"end":619.005,"text":"elcome to the next session."},{"start":634.87,"end":650.835,"text":"而不是說哪個點我評估一下不適合那就算了,哪個點評估不適合就是算了,因為我們有這個需求。所以可不可以運輸研究所辛苦一點就是說我就是要找出一個點可不可以拜託運輸研究所做這樣子的研究,這樣子我就可以到最後有個具體的答案。"},{"start":652.216,"end":678.262,"text":"跟委員報告是不是可能先建議請地方政府看看他們有沒有初步認為有這一個適合的這一個地點因為他還是要有一定的我跟妳講上面那個照片是誰市長就是我們地方政府我們陳其邁市長其實都在努力嘛地點是不是合當然就是說"},{"start":679.511,"end":686.226,"text":"市長也在這一部分他有極大的需求但是沒有這一部分的專業這部專業就是說你們運輸研究所"},{"start":689.4,"end":695.242,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算．並備質詢。 eyebr四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算．"},{"start":716.63,"end":738.08,"text":"就是要拜託你說,阿你比較專業,用你的角度來看,對一點有適合我們地方政府。我跟你說,你如果找出來地方政府都配合啦,地方政府都很喜歡。我跟委員報告是這樣,我們來聯繫這個幾個地方的政府,然後看看初步我們共同先盤點有沒有可能的點位。"},{"start":739.341,"end":741.403,"text":" bicyclone 審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":761.625,"end":781.151,"text":"當然你如果說整個南台灣都找不到一個適合的,我們就實在是忍痛的沒辦法。但是我就是希望南台灣能找到一個有機會的,我們來泡麵。這個部分拜託議員所馬來道三天。我來跟民安局來做那個來泡麵看看。所以不好意思今天拜託你三項事情。"},{"start":782.827,"end":811.169,"text":"因為機場空車模擬分身系統我們機場要改建這段時間要配套需要做科學的調整跟協助第二個我們希望有高雄南台灣到歐美市場的航線那也希望說比照你的桃園機場往返亞太市場的研究可以為我們高雄也做一個這樣子的探討第三個就是我們南台灣24小時的機場這三件事情就拜託所長"},{"start":812.31,"end":812.33,"text":"謝謝委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1038,"blocks":[["許委員智傑：（12時15分）主席，剛才我們要開會都遲到這麼久，我這邊被抓破皮，要跟主席抗議一下。"],["主席：是不是我們交通委員會抓的？"],["許委員智傑：不是交通委員會，是別的委員會。所以主席要反映一下。"],["主席：待會多兩分鐘給你。"],["許委員智傑：謝謝。先請運研所林所長。"],["主席：請林所長。"],["林所長繼國：委員好。"],["許委員智傑：所長好，請部長先坐著聽就好了，不過因為這個跟整個機場有很大的關係，希望部長也可以了解。所長你們做的這個系統不錯，應該給予鼓勵，也就是機場管理模擬不用再委外，以前是委外吧？"],["林所長繼國：以往因為國內沒有本土的這種軟體可以直接做評估、分析，所以都是在專案裡面用國外發展的商業軟體來做這樣的評估分析。"],["許委員智傑：你們做的這個其實是滿好的，請用一分鐘講解你們的優點跟使用情形，讓部長也了解一下。"],["林所長繼國：是。我們可以把機場空側整個場域裡面，涉及到的一些作業單位，他們在作業上面所會運用到的一些，比如航管的航機隔離，或是跑道的一個運用，萬一有施工的一些狀況時，我們可以把這些相關因素，輸入到我們的這個軟體平台裡面，它可以幫你建立一個讓機場空側的營運效率是比較好的一個方案出來。以往有時候要由人來判斷，有時候則要用國外的商業軟體，我們現在的這個軟體完全是為自己本土的機場，目前是桃機這個部分，去量身訂做的一套軟體。"],["許委員智傑：是的。部長，運研所所長表現不錯，先給他鼓勵一下，就是桃機這樣一個空側模擬分析系統，不管是飛機起落，航廈或是跑道之間的問題，都可以讓電腦幫助你做得更快、更精準。"],["林所長繼國：特別是施工，如果有一些施工或一些特殊狀況的時候，它可以幫我們事先模擬一下，告訴我們這個施工的位置、期間，可能會對營運產生什麼樣的影響……"],["許委員智傑：辛苦了。不過，不要做越好，事情越多，這樣就比較不好意思！但因為我們是公務員，可以多改善國家的機場，這當然是好事，所以高雄機場的部分也要拜託所長。"],["林所長繼國：是。"],["許委員智傑：高雄機場現在準備施工16年，好長的時間！我一直希望民航局可以把時間縮短，不管可以縮短多少，這是其一；其二，就是這段時間，如果我們沒有去思考所有的各項配套，上一次部長也有聽到，包括停機坪、基地等等，高雄機場其實還有很大的調整空間，包括運研所好不容易做出這一套系統，這個好東西如果沒有好好使用，也很可惜，是不是有辦法套用在我們高雄機場？這個OK嗎？"],["林所長繼國：跟委員報告，目前雖然是針對桃機優先量身訂做，但基本的一個空側模擬方法，跟它的觀念是相同的，如果國內其他機場要做的話也可以，就是要把它的場面，還有它的營運操作的一些參數輸入進去。"],["許委員智傑：所以就要拜託部長撥駕到我們高雄。"],["林所長繼國：是。我們跟民航局這邊也有做教育訓練，也有做移轉，我們願意跟民航局一起來看看怎麼樣能夠……"],["許委員智傑：願意喔！就拜託運研所主動跟民航局聯絡，也拜託部長跟民航局講一下，這個好東西要現在來用，不用可惜！也正好可以解決我們高雄的問題。","我覺得運研所做的事情，其實都值得鼓勵。你們還做了一個分析，就是北美經過桃園機場往返亞太市場的探討，你們研究的是臺灣可以飛到華盛頓跟波士頓，長榮現在也在評估當中。很多航空公司都靠自己收集data，很辛苦，而且也不是那麼準確，如果是從整個機場的大數據來做客觀的分析，我想可以更精確。所以你們這一套應該類似我剛剛提到的，比較屬於大數據，比較是用total的資料去做整體的分析。"],["林所長繼國：跟委員報告，我們在這個部分已經累積大概十幾年，每年都會持續去收集國際上一些主要的機場，特別是跟我們有競爭的這些機場，包括它的機場服務能量、飛航的航班、航空公司的航線，我們每年都會從這裡透過大數據的分析，針對國內民航發展一些重要的議題去做大數據的分析，並提出建議。"],["許委員智傑：感謝。所以再跟部長報告一下，有在做事情的公務員要多鼓勵。這個其實也是個好東西，長榮也覺得你的這個研究很好，也納入評估當中，可不可以再拜託你撥駕到高雄？因為我最近知道聯合航空打算從高雄飛東京，從東京再飛美國，我們一直希望可以從高雄飛美國，當然他們自己也要去收集這些data，然後去做分析，其實也很正常啦，賠錢的生意沒人做，但如果數據是夠的、人數是夠的，我相信航空公司很願意飛！針對南臺灣往返歐美市場的研究探討，可不可以拜託運研所也撥駕到高雄，來幫忙我們？"],["林所長繼國：跟委員報告，我們把它納入年度重要議題的一個項目，如果這個資料庫裡面的資料，目前還不夠的話，我們會加速優先來購買，然後對這個議題做潛在的市場分析。"],["許委員智傑：我現在了解運研所真的是做得不錯，真的是值得鼓勵，所以還是一樣先給你拍拍手；不過還是要給你們比較多的工作，希望你來高雄，這個比較不好意思！","還有第三項，對南臺灣來講，24小時的機場其實是有必要的，小港機場受限於宵禁，這一點一直困擾著高雄機場的發展。其實我們也都知道在世界各國的各大城市，如果城市機場有宵禁的話，大部分都還會在比較遠的附近地方去選擇一個24小時的機場，像日本東京的羽田機場跟成田機場有宵禁的跟沒有宵禁的，然後大阪跟關西也是有宵禁跟沒宵禁的，甚至首爾的金浦機場跟仁川機場，也是有宵禁跟沒宵禁，倫敦有三個機場也有這樣子的分別；臺北跟桃園的搭配，也是一個有宵禁，一個沒宵禁。高雄受限於宵禁的問題，我們很希望南臺灣可以有一個24小時的機場，拜託運研所能不能幫我們找出一塊地，看哪裡比較適合。"],["林所長繼國：跟委員報告，機場場址的選擇跟評估，它需要一個比較專案的計畫去做研究跟分析，我知道早年也曾經探討過臺南七股那個場址是不是適合，經過研究分析之後，還是有一些問題，所以就沒有辦法去推動。對於這個部分，我們可以跟民航局、高雄市政府，一起來做技術上面的參與，提出我們在專業上面的意見，供他們一起來做討論。"],["許委員智傑：高雄縣政府在105年的時候，也有請你們做過研究，後來沒有結果；如你剛才所說的，七股你們也有評估過……"],["林所長繼國：很早的時候。"],["許委員智傑：也沒有結果。當時你們著眼的，就是我有個點讓你去評估OK或不OK，這是一個概念；但是我現在要從臺南、高雄、屏東，即南高屏、南臺灣的角度一起思考，找出一個點；而不是哪個點我去評估一下，不適合，就算了。因為我們有這個需求，可否拜託運研所辛苦一點，做這樣的研究，就是要找出一個點，這樣我們就可以有個具體的答案。"],["林所長繼國：跟委員報告，是不是建議地方政府先看看他們有沒有初步認為適合的這一個地點，因為它還是要有一定的……"],["許委員智傑：我跟你講，上面那個照片是誰？就是我們地方政府，其實陳其邁市長也都在努力！至於地點適不適合，市長在這部分有極大的需求，但是沒有這部分的專業，看起來運研所在這部分的專業是比較好一點，所以我現在隨便講幾個點，都是可能評估的點，像南星計畫往南在林園的那個地點，甚至往南的屏東，或是往北比如我的選區彌陀、永安、茄萣，甚至臺南，你說七股評估過不適合，還有沒有其他點？所以你要地方政府找一個點給你，但因為你們比較專業，我就拜託你用你們的角度來看有哪個地點比較適合，如果找出來了，地方政府都很喜歡，也都會配合。"],["林所長繼國：跟委員報告，我們來聯繫這幾個地方政府，我們初步先共同盤點有沒有可能的點位，然後再協同民航局來做初步的評估。因為真正要決定這個是不是適合，還需要比較細部的專業評估，當然我們可以先做初步的一個可行性評估，然後再看是不是值得往下進行。如果經過初步評估，都沒有適合的……"],["許委員智傑：如果整個南臺灣都找不到一個適合的點，我們就忍痛，那也就沒辦法……"],["林所長繼國：是。"],["許委員智傑：但我還是希望有機會可以在南臺灣找到點，讓我們來努力。"],["林所長繼國：了解。"],["許委員智傑：這個部分要拜託運研所來幫忙，好不好？"],["林所長繼國：我們再跟民航局來一起努力看看。"],["許委員智傑：不好意思，今天拜託你三樣事情：第一項是機場空側模擬分析系統，我們機場要改建，這段時間需要配套，需要做科學的調整跟協助；第二項我們希望有高雄，也就是南臺灣到歐美市場的航線，希望比照你的桃園機場往返亞太市場的研究，可以為我們高雄也做一個這樣子的探討；第三項就是南臺灣24小時的機場。這三件事情就拜託所長，好不好？"],["林所長繼國：是。"],["許委員智傑：不好意思，給你找這麼多工作！真的是做得越好，人家會越稱讚，雖然工作比較多，但是對生命有意義。"],["林所長繼國：是，謝謝委員，我們會全力以赴。"],["許委員智傑：拜託所長！拜託部長支持。謝謝主席讓我超過時間，剛才的抗議就算了，過去就好了，謝謝。"],["林所長繼國：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝許委員。","接下來有請鍾佳濱委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":444,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-15","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","林國成","林俊憲","陳素月","蔡其昌","游顥","何欣純","徐富癸","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","楊瓊瓔","牛煦庭","許智傑","鍾佳濱","黃健豪"],"page_start":379,"meetingDate":["2024-12-16"],"gazette_id":"1140501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140501_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查114\n年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算；三、審查114年度中央政府總預\n算案關於交通部運輸研究所單位預算；四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部鐵道局及\n所屬單位預算；五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交\n通作業基金─鐵道發展基金分預算【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1140501_00014"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}