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部分,我們是跟速發部有保持聯繫了。聯繫了好幾年,還是在聯繫?聯繫中?沒有沒有沒有,有幾個具體的做法。什麼做法?對對,但是最重要的還是境內啦。境外的部分,那個速發部他們也覺得有些在法令上還在談。網站上的刊登廣告,地方政府沒有辦法啦。"},{"start":437.082,"end":459.995,"text":"但地方政府他會去,我就用台,還有一些是真的是消費者啦,要特別注意,我都有license上去,我用市政府查獲的,台北市政府查獲的非法的旅宿業者名單,去各大網站搜尋都找得到,他還是廣告還是在上面,那你叫消費者分辨,怎麼去分辨?"},{"start":462.612,"end":472.21,"text":"消費者通常都在網站上訂嘛你如果來源管理你非法的業者不應該在上面可以營業嘛這最簡單的嘛"},{"start":475.236,"end":476.736,"text":"我幫你查一下你的流量好不好?"},{"start":508.823,"end":521.308,"text":"你應該這個問題要解決吧你平台要下架非法旅宿啦好不好上架以前其實這些網路平台就應該審核你是不是有旅宿月的登記證號嘛"},{"start":525.866,"end":541.558,"text":"當時交通部就表示要求要三個月內下架,其實這個下架只要一秒鐘就可以了,那時候都是交通部的承諾,然後要求境外的訂房網站,"},{"start":543.139,"end":564.177,"text":"在台灣要設立公司要落地才可以開啟業務來符合消費者權利為了教育糾紛的一個保障全部也沒做啊我跟你講這些所謂的非法的旅宿啦尤其這網路上面有一些齁都是黃賭賭啦所以詐騙機房啦以前都查獲過啦這是一個治安的死角啦"},{"start":566.558,"end":571.371,"text":"請將觀光署處理下這個問題好不好。是,是,就持續在,在。好,謝謝區長喔。好,謝謝部長喔。好,謝謝署長。謝謝委員。好,謝謝主席。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":271,"blocks":[["林委員俊憲：（10時）謝謝主席。本席邀請交通部陳部長。"],["主席：陳部長。"],["林委員俊憲：觀光署周署長。"],["主席：周署長。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["林委員俊憲：部長好。部長，現在在雙城論壇，上海副市長到臺灣來，他在雙城論壇上宣布要推動上海陸客團來臺灣，所以到底是誰禁止來，很清楚啦！他自己承認他禁止，所以他才要推動開放。"],["陳部長世凱：是，沒錯！"],["林委員俊憲：對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：其實是中國那邊禁止。"],["林委員俊憲：如果中國沒有禁止，上海副市長為什麼說他要推動開放陸客團來臺灣？我再請教部長，中國有禁止陸客團來臺灣嘛，是不是這樣？"],["陳部長世凱：中國有禁止？有啊！"],["林委員俊憲：就是他們團客不能過來嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：對，他們團客不能過來，沒有錯！"],["林委員俊憲：假設他們有自由行的人，中國政府允許他們來臺灣嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，他們自由行的部分，除了專案之外，也是不允許的，所以現在是團客跟自由行都不允許他們的國民來到臺灣。"],["林委員俊憲：所以這個你要講清楚啊！中國政府不允許他們的團客和自由行的到臺灣來旅遊，是不是這樣？"],["陳部長世凱：沒錯。"],["林委員俊憲：沒有錯嘛！那臺灣的態度是怎麼樣？"],["陳部長世凱：我們其實對於觀光客，我們都是歡迎啦！如果是有序的觀光，我們都是非常的歡迎。"],["林委員俊憲：臺灣其實跟日本也是觀光逆差，臺灣人喜歡到日本去嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["林委員俊憲：但至少兩邊都是互相開放嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：是，沒有錯。"],["林委員俊憲：這個很重要。"],["陳部長世凱：日本並沒有禁止他們的國民，無論是參加旅遊團或者是自由行來到臺灣，他們是相當開放的。"],["林委員俊憲：日本也沒有禁止日本人到臺灣來觀光。"],["陳部長世凱：沒有、沒有，完全沒有！"],["林委員俊憲：其實任何國家開放觀光都應該這樣子啦！都應該互相開放嘛！為什麼現在國內很多包括旅遊公會、旅遊業者，都誤解是我們禁止陸客來？你知不知道？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，他們……"],["林委員俊憲：有很多人來找我們陳情，我就跟他們講、你搞錯對象了吧！這個應該是去呼籲北京要開放，你應該要請中國政府開放，讓他們的團客、甚至自由行的客人可以到臺灣來，而不是來要求我們要開放嘛！是不是這樣？"],["陳部長世凱：是。報告委員，我也一直在拜託我們的觀光業者，或者是相關的公協會，可以跟著我們一起來呼籲中國方面，可以解除對於觀光上面政治的干擾，跟政治上面的限制。"],["林委員俊憲：再比較一下，今年陸客來臺現在大概是32萬人，臺灣到中國旅遊的現在大概有230萬，所以是哪一邊限制，這個很清楚嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["林委員俊憲：是不是？"],["陳部長世凱：現在去的非常多，來的非常少。"],["林委員俊憲：中國十幾億人，怎麼可能只有三十幾萬人來臺灣？他們幾乎都禁止了，所以現在是禁止，不管怎麼樣，現在兩邊有沒有在談？兩邊有沒有在談開放？"],["陳部長世凱：這個部分其實不需要談，開放就是開放。"],["林委員俊憲：開放就開放。"],["陳部長世凱：像我們現在自由行的旅客可以過去，我們也不需要跟他們談，我們自己就是開放。"],["林委員俊憲：沒有錯嘛！但是他們開放會有一些徵兆，比如說要有踩線團來，跟著我們本地的旅行業者要有合作等等的。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["林委員俊憲：只是我希望交通部應該要講清楚，也要讓本國的旅遊業者清楚知道，到底是誰在阻礙兩岸的觀光旅遊？不要都認為好像是民進黨在阻擋。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["林委員俊憲：再請教一下，我記得幾年前我有要求交通部要注意一下，現在很多人出國旅遊都會訂房，對不對？都會透過網站去訂房，但在網路上訂房的旅館或者民宿，其實政府是沒有辦法、消費者也沒有辦法去分辨所訂的民宿或者旅館是不是合法，是不是這樣？"],["陳部長世凱：民眾大概不知道，但政府都會知道。"],["林委員俊憲：會知道嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：政府都會知道。"],["林委員俊憲：既然知道，為什麼還讓非法的在網上可以開放訂？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，其實這個是地方政府要去查核，但我們有跟他們配合，今年到目前為止，查了裁罰一千三百多件，罰了一億多。"],["林委員俊憲：我講的是在網站上面。"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["林委員俊憲：在網站上面，我最早提出質詢是5年前，我說因為非法的旅宿業者，第一個，消費者權益也沒有保障，萬一發生消費糾紛怎麼辦？當時交通部說會道德勸說，這些訂房的網站不要刊登這些非法的旅宿業者。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["林委員俊憲：交通部當時說他們會去想辦法解決這個問題。四、五年了，到現在，請問還是一樣道德勸說嗎？"],["周署長永暉：沒有、沒有。"],["林委員俊憲：來，周署長。"],["周署長永暉：跟委員報告一下，委員所關心的應該分兩個，一個我們叫境內，一個叫境外。境外的部分譬如說Airbnb……"],["林委員俊憲：境內的。喔，你說的是什麼樣的網站？"],["周署長永暉：對。至於境內的部分，我們都直接查處了，因為22個縣市政府他們都有表達因為預算有限、人力有限，我們也……"],["林委員俊憲：對於Airbnb，你們沒有辦法管它？"],["周署長永暉：因為裡面有合法的，我們也跟它談了，就是涉及到安全的部分，他們也願意下架。"],["林委員俊憲：我現在給你看幾個網站，這些都不是……"],["周署長永暉：我們也拜託數發部……"],["林委員俊憲：這是本地的網站，也不是Airbnb的網站，它上面一樣有非法的旅宿在啊！其實你應該要要求……"],["周署長永暉：基本上……"],["林委員俊憲：如果要到它的網站上去刊登廣告……"],["周署長永暉：我們都有license……"],["林委員俊憲：對，要有license。"],["周署長永暉：對。"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["林委員俊憲：要有營業登記才可以上……"],["陳部長世凱：要有旅宿證號才可以。"],["周署長永暉：是。"],["林委員俊憲：這些網站不可以為了賺錢，不分青紅皂白，一點管理也沒有！觀光署有沒有什麼作法？"],["周署長永暉：針對境外的部分，我們是跟數發部有保持聯繫。"],["林委員俊憲：聯繫好幾年了，還是在聯繫中？"],["周署長永暉：沒有、沒有，有幾個具體的作法。"],["林委員俊憲：什麼作法？"],["周署長永暉：但是最重要的還是境內，至於境外的部分，因為數發部也覺得有些在法令上還在談。"],["林委員俊憲：在網站上刊登廣告，地方政府沒有辦法，但地方政府……"],["周署長永暉：還有一些真的是消費者要特別注意，我們都有license上去。"],["林委員俊憲：我用臺北市政府查獲的非法旅宿業者名單去各大網站搜尋，都找得到，廣告還是在上面，你叫消費者分辨，怎麼去分辨？消費者通常都在網站上訂，如果來源有管理，非法業者不應該在上面可以營業，這就是最簡單的嘛！應該是一個網站……"],["周署長永暉：所以我們才有一個……"],["林委員俊憲：網站有自律，還有他律嘛！我們要要求它自己管理，對不對？"],["周署長永暉：是。"],["林委員俊憲：沒有營照的不可以幫它登廣告。第二個，他律就是我們要去管理它嘛！"],["周署長永暉：是。所以我們也開闢了一個叫做旅宿網，希望大家要訂的時候直接上觀光署的旅宿網，其實是百分之一百……"],["林委員俊憲：你那個旅宿網也沒有人在上面。"],["周署長永暉：有啦！還有一些評價的推薦。"],["林委員俊憲：我幫你查一下你的流量好不好？這個問題應該要解決吧？"],["周署長永暉：這個是多管齊下。"],["林委員俊憲：平臺要下架非法旅宿啦，好不好？上架以前，其實這些網路平臺就應該審核是不是有旅宿業的登記證號，是不是這樣？當時觀光署，2018年還不是周署長，但是當時交通部就有表示要求3個月內要下架，其實下架只要1秒鐘就可以了，那時候都是交通部的承諾啦！然後要求境外的訂房網站在臺灣要設立公司，要落地才可以開啟業務，以符合消費者權益或者交易糾紛的保障，結果全部也沒做啊！我跟你講，這些所謂的非法旅宿，尤其在網路上面有一些都是黃、賭、毒啦！就是詐騙機房啦！以前都查獲過，這是一個治安的死角，請觀光署處理一下這個問題好不好？"],["周署長永暉：是，就持續在……"],["林委員俊憲：好，謝謝部長，謝謝署長，謝謝主席。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林委員。","接下來有請廖先翔委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":78,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-16","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","許智傑","林國成","林俊憲","廖先翔","陳素月","翁曉玲","蔡其昌","何欣純","徐富癸","楊瓊瓔","王義川","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳雪生","羅廷瑋","張啓楷","邱若華","游顥","黃珊珊","葉元之","黃健豪","羅智強"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-18"],"gazette_id":"1141102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1141102_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、交通部觀光署署長及桃園國際機場股份有限公司董事長就「如何提\n升過境及轉機旅客入境台灣觀光品質並增加觀光人數」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查114\n年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光署及所屬單位預算；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案\n附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業基金─觀光發展基金分預算；四、審查114年\n度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於交通部主管中華郵政股份有限公司營業預算【僅\n進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1141102_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}