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24年還沒過完啦現在已經負14.1億啊"},{"start":719.076,"end":735.577,"text":"你們在本月到最後發生什麼事情啊?你有去研究嗎?各位報告,的確它是從去年到今年,郵務面臨很大的虧損。那主要是在除了郵件以外,是讓它包裹跟快捷也下降。"},{"start":736.534,"end":762.764,"text":"大概我從8月21日上任以後已經針對這個部分包括我們在數位化的介面還有包括我們舊客戶跟新客戶的拜訪都積極進行我想就是提高品質把客人找回來這是他們最重要的工作王董事長真的啦要拜託你啦因為你有你是整面全面的觀念你去注入到中華郵政真的啦不要以不變"},{"start":763.524,"end":767.007,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質及所屬單位預算"},{"start":786.028,"end":805.02,"text":"國際包裹減少了10.5、自轉油量減少了9.3。他那個統計報告各行各業把新竹物流每個都在買車每個都在發財財海運的快遞每一個都在增班只有我們以不變應萬變的中華郵政我跟你講你們現在面對的對手是什麼樣"},{"start":806.301,"end":808.464,"text":"包括你剛才談到蝦皮的電對電,我們現在是把我們的愛油箱也要轉成電對電的一個服務。"},{"start":828.686,"end":855.505,"text":"我跟委員報告最近他們這幾個月開始這個衰退已經開始減緩了那我是期待是在明年的七月包括我們的數位化的這些民眾的服務做好以後明年七月希望我給他們目標就明年開始止跌回升那現在有很多比較新的一些作為或是過去在中華郵政比較消極的跟客戶的關係這部分我都在加強中"},{"start":856.306,"end":880.448,"text":"我想說就以這樣的目標我們來進行。拜託你,現在兩岸的網購、電郵的一個部分,其實主要的包裹大概80%到90%來自大陸,可是你們在這邊的包裹業務,我看順豐快遞一些民間業者,我跟你講你們,我覺得你們這一部分是不是重新思考,因為我知道你們好像整個業務只交給某一個承辦人,"},{"start":883.471,"end":890.581,"text":"帶了30年40年的一個觀念拜託重新去哪裡有生意去哪裡抓這是我的建議好不好好謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":531,"blocks":[["魯委員明哲：（10時31分）謝謝主席。有請交通部陳部長……"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["魯委員明哲：還有觀光署周署長。"],["主席：請周署長。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好！"],["周署長永暉：召委好！"],["魯委員明哲：好！今天主要是談到觀光，我們看到520賴總統上任的時候，其實那時候部長是發言人，我相信他很多的想法你應該都知道……"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["魯委員明哲：而且現在你有機會來執行他的部分政策，我們是滿樂觀其成的……"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["魯委員明哲：我覺得現在最重要的，大家都說政治歸政治、教育歸教育、文化歸文化、觀光歸觀光、經濟歸經濟，你贊不贊成？"],["陳部長世凱：滿贊成的。"],["魯委員明哲：至於做得到做不到，好像困難還是滿多的，有時候不見得是交通部，我可以理解，現況就是這樣。","談到經濟歸經濟，目前看起來，兩岸之間，臺灣是貿易順差，而且順差大概一千多億美金，如果拿掉兩岸之間的貿易順差，在整個世界來看，臺灣非常可能是逆差，所以當然我們就沒有意見，ECFA最好不要取消，陸委會也表示好多了。其實我在想不見得每一件事我們都要算，我們覺得主要要對等、互相有善意，這是真的需要，可是如果你要錙銖必較，教育或是觀光的領域，每一個都要去算的話，糟糕了！他拿貿易來跟我們算，要平衡，是不是？那他開放幾項，我們就要開放幾項，我們是要比這個嗎？比這種對等嗎？其實我覺得有些不見得要。","最近我們常常看到委員或者有一些地方的學者拿我們觀光的復甦跟日韓來做比較，其實大家沒說的是日韓能夠快速復甦主要是第一時間大陸客能夠到日韓旅遊，這是一個非常重要的原因，我想我們就談觀光，不談其他……"],["陳部長世凱：是，沒錯。"],["魯委員明哲：實際上，他們有幾百萬人，對不對？如果我們有幾百萬人，我們也差不多達標了。我是覺得臺灣的業者也希望能夠賺錢，尤其觀光業者。過去開放陸客來臺的時期，人數最高的時候差不多來臺旅客是超過400萬，疫情之前，大概也有200、300萬，陸客的部分有一定的產值，超過一千多億，這是當時觀光局的統計，疫情之後，就沒有什麼統計數字，所以剛剛部長說可能還要統計。現在正好碰到這個上海團，他們特別說願意開放上海居民來臺旅遊，你剛剛有說，現在這到底可不可以做到？因為我們希望他們來臺花錢，讓我們的產業賺錢，我覺得這個目標是賺觀光財，你的想法怎麼樣？"],["陳部長世凱：我們當然是歡迎，如果他們能夠開放的話，不過現在的狀況是他們文旅部也還沒宣布，所以這個其實也不是操之在我，這個是由他們自己來決定，如果他們決定了，我們其實態度上是歡迎的，歡迎他們可以過來。"],["魯委員明哲：好，如果我們記憶沒錯的話，金門、馬祖也是中華民國的一部分吧！"],["陳部長世凱：是、是。"],["魯委員明哲：金門、馬祖已經開放了……"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["魯委員明哲：金馬先行開放福建4,000萬人旅遊，署長，請問一下，當時金馬開放是誰宣布的？"],["周署長永暉：這是陸委會的權責。"],["魯委員明哲：不是陸委會宣布，我說對岸是誰宣布的？你們一直在計較上海市長、副市長宣布的，我就請問一下，這是誰宣布的，你還記得嗎？到最後9月27日是誰公告的？回憶一下……"],["周署長永暉：他們也有透過文旅部宣布。"],["魯委員明哲：就是福建省公安廳發的公告。你們那時候講為什麼是公安廳？莫名其妙！為什麼不是文旅部？拜託！牛角尖不要再去鑽啦！文旅部，你們要怎麼去對接你們去對接，去看看他這個話是不是騙人，現在證明了，你認為胡說八道，你去證明。不管是誰宣布，誰宣布或發言人宣布，都不重要，可是你在計較這個，因為現在金馬開放也不是文旅部宣布，所以我拜託，當然你們實務的對接該怎麼對接，我們真的是希望能夠展開，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好，報告召委，在交通部及觀光署的部分，您這樣指教，其實我覺得很合理，就是該對接的部分，我們能做的範圍我們來對接看看，有時候不是我們能對接得上，但是我們能做的我們先來做做看。"],["魯委員明哲：對，你對接之後，搞不好他是騙人，騙人的話，大家就講清楚，不要卡在這裡，這麼難過嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：是，沒錯。"],["魯委員明哲：直接就去對接一下啦！"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["魯委員明哲：我們希望臺灣觀光的產值能夠提升，尤其偏遠的地方，不過真的沒有辦法，現在很多商務客都集中在都市，他們以辦事為主，真的是這樣，有些來臺的，不管是移工或做事的，他其實1天旅館也不會住，就馬上去做他的工作了，對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["魯委員明哲：所以在這裡比較有關係的，就是陸客，因為他們小時候聽過很多歌，什麼阿里山的姑娘，他就會想到花東，甚至墾丁，這正好能夠串接，尤其現在花東的旅遊很不景氣，所以這個部分要特別拜託一下。","我們來看看，現在金馬有開放，剛開始我們看到一些負面新聞，說根本沒人要來，開放也是假的！但是在兩個月的時間，9月27日說開放，正式第一團來是10月5日，到12月9日為止，差不多兩個月的時間，我們昨天跟金門縣政府拿到最新的統計資料，因為他們吞吐量也有限，船就那麼多，所以也拜託你們，是不是航港局能夠多開一點航班……"],["陳部長世凱：有，報告召委，這個我們有在進行，增加航班的部分。"],["魯委員明哲：我知道，我們只是在想當年歸零的時刻到現在為止，將近兩個月多一點的時間，金門縣的大陸觀光客平均每一天大概821人，在疫情之後，已經恢復到78%，目前金門縣政府的資料是這樣，因為才開放兩個月，就這個比例，如果未來能夠開放的話，我覺得對臺灣整體的旅遊業是幫忙非常大的，所以我還是在這裡拜託，畢竟您做過發言人，對其他部會也多有認識，是不是大家能夠真心聚在一起討論一下這個議題？"],["陳部長世凱：好、好。"],["魯委員明哲：看看能不能我們就接了，反正金馬也接了這個球，大概多久能夠召開這樣的會議？"],["周署長永暉：不過跟委員報告，像馬祖平均每日約400人，可是它現在平均每日不到100人，雖然是開放，但是量很少。"],["魯委員明哲：沒有，我是在講金門，你們那個船班自己好好去研究一下。最後我想做個結論，因為我們現在一直說有些網紅去大陸，配合他們做旅遊行銷、城市介紹等等，在臺灣掀起了軒然大波，我倒是沒辦法判定誰對誰錯，我沒有辦法判定，我只是想問，觀光署有沒有找大陸網紅來做臺灣景點的宣傳，不管是臺灣的美、臺灣的好？有沒有做這樣的事？"],["周署長永暉：有，我們還是有做，但就是……"],["魯委員明哲：這樣我們是不是也有統戰對岸的性質？"],["周署長永暉：不是這樣講……"],["魯委員明哲：不是統戰？"],["周署長永暉：總是要介紹臺灣美好的景點，然後也要把22個縣市推介出去，所以一些最基本的還是有做。"],["魯委員明哲：所以這個算不算統戰？我們算不算統戰他們？"],["周署長永暉：我們大概只就觀光談觀光，不會有……"],["魯委員明哲：那麼他們的網紅來這裡，回去會不會被法辦，因為拿了你政府的錢？一樣嘛！我們倒過來這樣講，因為這是現在進行式，公平講，他拿了我們中華民國政府的錢，回去會不會被法辦？這個你要注意一下。我看你們每一年都有，今年到底辦了沒有？就是邀請知名旅遊網紅合作計畫，約人民幣13萬，113年這個部分辦了沒有？"],["周署長永暉：那就是臺灣燈會，有時候會有特定的……"],["魯委員明哲：不是，不是，這個錢花了沒有？找了沒有？執行了沒有？"],["周署長永暉：我們有執行，還沒有執行完。"],["魯委員明哲：好，有執行了，有請廈門的揭姓跟張姓兩位網紅幫忙，有吧？"],["周署長永暉：有，這我提供給委員的，應該都……"],["魯委員明哲：請廈門陳姓旅遊達人來做深度介紹，這個做了沒有？都做了嘛！明年呢？明年一樣，你們也編了大概一百多萬，還是有請包括旅遊達人、媒體來，針對廈門、福建，也特別把名字寫上去了，就是你們要請哪一位網紅名字都寫了，但我覺得這不是很正常嗎？請他們來，把我們臺灣的……"],["周署長永暉：這個費用都很少……"],["魯委員明哲：我知道，你們是先以金門、馬祖促銷，所以它以廈門、福建為主，但我覺得觀光歸觀光，因為我們自己也是希望那邊比較有名的網紅……"],["陳部長世凱：有流量的網紅。"],["魯委員明哲：有流量的，能夠幫忙一下，這個部分我覺得當然要繼續做，而且我們有做，我覺得是正常啦！","最後問一下中華郵政，抱歉、抱歉！因為已經超過時間，不好意思。","以中華郵政本業來講，因為你剛到任，我也不是在怪你，但是我覺得中華郵政有時候要面對問題，歸零思考，我知道你們在儲蓄，甚至保險部分很努力，可是中華郵政其實有個本業，就是郵務業務，你們的稅後淨利，我們統計了這6年的數字，從2019年開始一路下滑，一路下滑，到今年2024年還沒過完，已經負14.1億，你們的本業到最後發生什麼事情？你有去研究嗎？"],["王董事長國材：跟委員報告，的確從去年到今年郵務面臨很大虧損，主要除了郵件以外，事實上，包裹跟快捷也下降，我從8月20號上任以後，已經針對這個部分積極改善，包括數位化介面建置，還有舊客戶跟新客戶的拜訪，都積極在進行，我想就是提高品質把客人找回來，這是他們最重要的任務。"],["魯委員明哲：不是，王董事長，真的要拜託你，你要有全面的觀念注入中華郵政，真的不要以不變應萬變，如果百年老店只剩下「百年」，跩什麼？對於新的挑戰，你有沒有辦法應變？就像你剛剛講的，國內包裹部分，這是17號剛出來的數據，國內包裹今年減少8.2%，國際包裹減少10.5%，自轉郵量減少9.3%，這個統計報告有各行各業，新竹物流等都有，每個都在買車、都在發大財，海運的快遞也是每一個都在增班，只有以不變應萬變的中華郵政，我跟你講，你們現在面對的對手是什麼樣？現在郵包大家習慣直接就下去7-11拿了，對不對？連蝦皮都有1,600個點，你們是不是真的都不變，就等人家來找你？面對這個挑戰，你們能不能想些新的點子？"],["王董事長國材：是。包括委員剛才談到的蝦皮店對店，我們現在的i郵箱也要轉成類似店對店的服務，我跟委員報告，最近這幾個月衰退已經開始減緩，我是期待明年7月，包括我們數位化服務民眾的部分做好以後，我給他們的目標，是明年7月開始止跌回升。我們現在是有很多比較新的作為，另外過去中華郵政比較消極的跟客戶關係部分，我們也都在加強中，我想就以這樣的目標來進行。"],["魯委員明哲：好，我拜託你，現在兩岸的網購、電郵部分，其實主要包裹大概80%到90%來自大陸，大都是民間業者，包括順豐快遞，可是你們這邊的業務卻不多，這部分你們是不是要重新思考？因為我知道你們整個業務好像只交給某一個承辦人，帶了30年、40年的觀念，拜託！重新思考，哪裡有生意去哪裡抓，這是我的建議，好不好？謝謝。"],["王董事長國材：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝魯明哲召委。依照召委原定時間，休息10分鐘。","休息（10時46分）","繼續開會（10時56分）"],["主席（魯委員明哲）：現在繼續開會。","有請翁曉玲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":78,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-16","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","許智傑","林國成","林俊憲","廖先翔","陳素月","翁曉玲","蔡其昌","何欣純","徐富癸","楊瓊瓔","王義川","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳雪生","羅廷瑋","張啓楷","邱若華","游顥","黃珊珊","葉元之","黃健豪","羅智強"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-18"],"gazette_id":"1141102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1141102_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、交通部觀光署署長及桃園國際機場股份有限公司董事長就「如何提\n升過境及轉機旅客入境台灣觀光品質並增加觀光人數」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查114\n年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光署及所屬單位預算；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案\n附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業基金─觀光發展基金分預算；四、審查114年\n度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於交通部主管中華郵政股份有限公司營業預算【僅\n進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1141102_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}