{"error":false,"id":["158210"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":158210,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158210","日期":"2024-12-18","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-23-16","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":16,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-12-18T11:53:15+08:00","結束時間":"2024-12-18T12:01:27+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:12","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b951eeed9cc2fe3f720b3322f914086be2c4376c2e647076b76900cb30db92cbb6269e3722f5e7cf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王義川","委員發言時間":"11:53:15 - 12:01:27","會議時間":"2024-12-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、交通部觀光署署長及桃園國際機場股份有限公司董事長就「如何提升過境及轉機旅客入境台灣觀光品質並增加觀光人數」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光署及所屬單位預算。\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業基金─觀光發展基金分預算。\n四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於交通部主管中華郵政股份有限公司營業預算。\n【僅進行詢答；第二案至第四案委員預算提案於12月25日中午12時前截止收件】【12月18日及19日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.5915937500000004,"end":7.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.599718750000001,"end":6.122843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.61971875,"end":14.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.68721875,"end":12.855968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.172218750000003,"end":14.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.20159375,"end":16.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.88909375,"end":24.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.64721875,"end":29.258468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.74784375,"end":36.970343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.970343750000005,"end":37.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.11784375,"end":39.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.97409375,"end":40.362218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.885343750000004,"end":42.336593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.70784375,"end":44.040968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.71596875,"end":47.635343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.782843750000005,"end":51.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.516593750000006,"end":57.82784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.587218750000005,"end":65.69159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":65.80971875,"end":66.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.14721875000001,"end":74.75346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.27659375,"end":78.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.63471875,"end":80.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.91284375000001,"end":92.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.87721875000001,"end":96.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.85971875,"end":99.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":99.08721875,"end":99.44159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.44159375000001,"end":99.45846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.62721875000001,"end":102.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.40721875000001,"end":108.30096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":110.78159375000001,"end":114.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.63346875,"end":114.17346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.49409375,"end":116.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.78909375,"end":117.19409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.99534375,"end":121.53096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.78409375000001,"end":126.03659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.61034375000001,"end":130.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.69409375,"end":135.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":136.48221875000002,"end":137.24159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.57909375,"end":140.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.05096875,"end":143.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.92409375,"end":143.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.94096875,"end":144.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.31221875,"end":145.25721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.67034375,"end":149.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.33659375000002,"end":152.39534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.06596875,"end":155.04471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.43284375000002,"end":157.91346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.07409375,"end":156.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.98096875000002,"end":159.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.30971875,"end":163.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.30909375000002,"end":166.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.21159375000002,"end":168.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.06346875,"end":170.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.37971875000002,"end":173.10096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.26096875000002,"end":176.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.63596875000002,"end":185.82471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.48284375,"end":189.08159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.46971875,"end":190.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.50346875000002,"end":189.95909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.72659375,"end":196.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.31221875,"end":199.59471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.37971875000002,"end":199.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.86471875,"end":205.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.83409375000002,"end":210.31034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.68159375000002,"end":214.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.57534375,"end":217.80284375000002}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LADYBLAKE PINK這幾個人很多"},{"start":296.619,"end":300.651,"text":"現在辦演唱會很多,那群人來台灣整群在高雄笑的。"},{"start":303.607,"end":327.303,"text":"一大堆,那很貴的我知道啦,可是你們找到的網紅是韓國人喜歡的,他們講的都性質啦,他們講的都性質。早有流量的,然後有吸引力,能夠吸引出的一些網紅。所以這要找國際的網紅,要找他們那個國家的人認同的。要用他們的角度,不要用我們的角度。好,我再問第二個問題,那個署長你知不知道我有領隊導遊執照?"},{"start":330.43,"end":351.798,"text":"有沒有聽過?我大概不曉得。你可以查得到我有沒有在執業嗎?旅行社通報的時候才會查的,刻意去查。所以你查不到我這個有領隊導遊的人,我曾經執業過對不對?你也查不到我從來沒有執業過對不對?對,因為它是一個證照制,就像我們有電腦的…我覺得這個你們機制要改變。"},{"start":356.861,"end":377.603,"text":"為什麼要改變?上次在疫情期間不是要補助領隊導遊嗎?當時我跟交通部長講說,我沒有在職業,我給你申請,你如果補助的話你就麻煩了。應該不會,因為透過旅行社嘛。不是,就是說我有證喔,我都有證喔。是不是?沒有職業的話就不行。我每到期間我就換證喔。"},{"start":379.056,"end":399.754,"text":"那各地的協會都會去換換都可以換嘛對不對好我的意思是說我們現在我們的觀光署有沒有掌握擁有領隊導遊執照的人啊擁有領隊導遊執照的人現在在線上啊譬如說今年有在執業的是哪些人啊哪些人都沒有在執業你想我就沒在執業啊可是我還是有證啊"},{"start":400.862,"end":419.629,"text":"阿雖然我沒有去換證,我只要再去上幾個小時,對不對,之後我就又有證了。對。阿所以我的意思是說,因為三年換證之外,如果要執業的話要訓練。對,阿我們國家總是要知道說武嶺對島到底誰有在執業嗎,到底有多少人在執業,不然你們現在手上掌握的數字阿,"},{"start":420.569,"end":436.326,"text":"都是虛的啦。都是虛的。有統計了。對,本人的統計就是他不在職業裡面,就是他有資格而已。有效的,叫有效的導遊。好,我再問剛剛第二個問題就是說那個觀光發展研訓院,我看媒體有在報導,目前籌備的狀況怎麼樣?接下來你對導遊做這個研訓院來負責嗎?"},{"start":442.239,"end":470.674,"text":"我們昨天才開會來討論我們希望115年可以正式讓它上線營運你們現在領隊導遊考試院不幫忙考了嗎是由我們觀光署委託專業的來考試我是建議以後就由國家的研訓院負責來辦當然到各個北中南東要訓練再委託其他的協會跟學校"},{"start":471.414,"end":474.937,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質及所屬單位預算"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":867,"blocks":[["王委員義川：（11時53分）我們請陳部長跟周署長。"],["主席：請陳部長、周署長。"],["王委員義川：部長好、署長好。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["王委員義川：部長，上海市副市長、一個小小的上海市副市長宣布上海人可以來臺灣了，你相信嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：我們還沒有看到他們文旅部有這樣子的政策宣布，所以這個部分我還不確定，因為中國的體制說實在的誰說了算到目前為止還看不出來。"],["王委員義川：他們中國人要出國要國家同意。"],["陳部長世凱：是啊。"],["王委員義川：我們臺灣人出國除非是被境管的或是軍公教有一大堆規定所以不能去的，其他的只要護照一拿想去哪裡就去哪裡。中國是獨裁國家，只不過是一個上海副市長而已，他說一說臺灣就「噗噗跳」，我們的花蓮縣副縣長也可以說開放花蓮縣副縣長可以去中國，本來就可以去中國啊，是在「裝肖維」喔？所以第一個請交通部觀光署對這一條密切注意。"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["王委員義川：要歡迎他們，他們要來都來，可是他們那個國家有管制，他們不能隨便出國，他們沒申請不能出國，所以這條我們和他們分別是民主、獨裁，剛才楊瓊瓔委員有說，我們是民主國家、他們是獨裁，他們說的也不一定算數，但是要密切關注，如果那邊宣布可以來，我們就要準備好，這是第一點。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["王委員義川：接下來問署長，你知不知道現在臺灣人去韓國都要買什麼？"],["周署長永暉：有很多Pass可以買，優惠券。"],["王委員義川：不是啦，我是說去那邊都買什麼東西。"],["周署長永暉：年齡層不同，40歲以下的買很多泡麵，還有買一些我們說的おみあげ，おみあげ就是伴手禮。"],["王委員義川：我知道你要說泡菜、海苔，那是我們這個年紀的人。我的家人這陣子去韓國，你知道他買什麼回來嗎？在場有人知道嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：不知道耶！"],["王委員義川：買棉被！我問他怎麼買那麼多棉被？是要做甚麼？他說人家現在去韓國都要買棉被。部長你有聽過嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：其實沒聽過。"],["王委員義川：沒聽過對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：真的沒聽過。"],["王委員義川：你現在上網輸入「去首爾買棉被」，它會跟你說去兩個市場買；輸入「去首爾要買什麼」，現在跳出來的都是「棉被」。我為什麼先講這一題？那請問日本人到臺灣要買什麼？"],["陳部長世凱：臺灣應該有很多吧！"],["周署長永暉：當然大家所熟悉的是他們對鳳梨酥還是情有獨鍾，但是就是分類，我們是鼓勵他們多買一些精品。"],["王委員義川：這跟你是否鼓勵無關啦，我們去韓國首爾，查「首爾必買」，現在就會跳出「棉被」。"],["周署長永暉：也有「臺灣必買」。"],["王委員義川：所以日本人輸入「到臺灣必買」，那些跳出顯示在前面的他就會來了，像我們隔壁的阜杭豆漿，為什麼都是整群人去？日本人、韓國人為什麼來臺灣都去那家喝豆漿？很奇怪！像我就都喝四海豆漿。那些人都在那邊排隊，為什麼？因為他們的網站、他們的旅遊書跟他說來臺灣臺北一定要去那邊喝豆漿。所以我就問你們，我舉韓國做例子，接下來你們找韓國的人代言臺灣觀光，去年是找誰？"],["周署長永暉：我們找圭賢。"],["王委員義川：今年？"],["周署長永暉：對，今年找圭賢。"],["王委員義川：明年？"],["周署長永暉：我們是一個年度、一個年度來做。"],["王委員義川：那明年找誰？"],["周署長永暉：目前還在評估。"],["王委員義川：找的人要不要署長同意？"],["周署長永暉：我們當然是一起開會討論。"],["王委員義川：你們在討論？你們討論沒有用啦！觀光署的同仁不要討論。"],["周署長永暉：我們有專業的公司。"],["王委員義川：不是啦，你要問韓國人啦！"],["周署長永暉：專業公司也是國際的，有韓國人。"],["王委員義川：部長，我告訴你……"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，你在提醒的是KOL的部分。"],["王委員義川：你們要問韓國人。"],["陳部長世凱：要找有流量的韓國人來幫我們推銷。"],["王委員義川：不是，你們不要從臺灣去觀察韓國要找誰。"],["陳部長世凱：是，沒錯。"],["王委員義川：你要問韓國人覺得哪一個人好，譬如Pink Lady、BLACKPINK，有很多團體，現在在辦演唱會的很多，那些團體如果來臺灣，整群人在高雄就好像瘋子。"],["陳部長世凱：是、是。"],["王委員義川：我知道那個很貴，可是你們要找那個網紅是韓國人喜歡的，他們說的都是聖旨。"],["陳部長世凱：對，找有流量的、有吸引力的，能夠吸引眼球的一些網紅。"],["王委員義川：對，所以找國際的網紅要找他們國家的人認同的。"],["陳部長世凱：要用他們的角度，不要用我們的角度。"],["王委員義川：對。我再問第二個問題，署長你知不知道我有領隊導遊執照？有沒有聽過？"],["周署長永暉：我大概不曉得。"],["王委員義川：你可以查得到我有沒有在執業嗎？"],["周署長永暉：旅行社通報的時候才會刻意去查。"],["王委員義川：所以你查不到我這個有領隊導遊執照的人曾經執業過，對不對？你也查不到我從來沒有執業過，對不對？"],["周署長永暉：對，因為它是一個證照制，就像我們有電腦的licence一樣。"],["王委員義川：我覺得你們這個機制要改變，為什麼要改變？上次在疫情期間不是要補助領隊導遊嗎？當時我跟交通部長講，我沒有在執業，我申請如果你補助我，那你就有事了。"],["周署長永暉：應該不會，因為透過旅行社。"],["王委員義川：不是，就是我有證喔，然後……"],["周署長永暉：是，但是你沒有執業的話就不行。"],["王委員義川：我每到期限我就換證喔，各地的協會我都會去換，都可以換嘛，對不對？好，我的意思是現在觀光署有沒有掌握擁有領隊導遊執照的人現在在線上的？譬如今年有在執業是哪些人、哪些人都沒有在執業，像我就沒有在執業，但我還是有證照，雖然我沒有去換證 我只要再去上幾個小時，之後我就又有證了。"],["周署長永暉：對。"],["王委員義川：所以我的意思是說……"],["周署長永暉：除了3年換證之外，如果要執業的話要訓練。"],["王委員義川：對，我們國家總是要知道，領隊、導遊到底誰有在職業，到底有多少人在職業，不然你們現在手上掌握的數字都是虛的。"],["周署長永暉：有統計。"],["王委員義川：統計就是他也沒有在執業，只是有資格而已。"],["周署長永暉：觀光業還是有在統計證照有效的導遊。"],["王委員義川：我再問第二個問題，關於觀光發展研訓院，我看媒體有在報導，目前籌備的狀況怎麼樣？接下來領隊、導遊就由這個研訓院來負責嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：我們昨天才開會討論，希望115年可以正式讓它上線營運。"],["王委員義川：現在領隊、導遊考試院不幫忙考了對不對？"],["周署長永暉：對，是由我們觀光署委託專業的來考試。"],["王委員義川：我是建議以後就由國家的研訓院來辦。"],["周署長永暉：對，沒錯。"],["王委員義川：當然北中南東地區要訓練就委託其他的協會跟學校，比如說臺中以前都委託東海大學或者是朝陽大學，他們都有在協助。所以這些事情還是要回到一個國家的制度裡頭，用觀光發展研訓院來負責主辦領隊、導遊的考試。"],["陳部長世凱：是，會朝這個方向來做。"],["周署長永暉：謝謝委員支持。"],["王委員義川：好，大家一起為觀光加油，謝謝。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王委員。接下來有請洪孟楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":78,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-16","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","許智傑","林國成","林俊憲","廖先翔","陳素月","翁曉玲","蔡其昌","何欣純","徐富癸","楊瓊瓔","王義川","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳雪生","羅廷瑋","張啓楷","邱若華","游顥","黃珊珊","葉元之","黃健豪","羅智強"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-18"],"gazette_id":"1141102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1141102_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、交通部觀光署署長及桃園國際機場股份有限公司董事長就「如何提\n升過境及轉機旅客入境台灣觀光品質並增加觀光人數」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查114\n年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光署及所屬單位預算；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案\n附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業基金─觀光發展基金分預算；四、審查114年\n度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於交通部主管中華郵政股份有限公司營業預算【僅\n進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1141102_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}