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20開始,每年都是3800、3800,你最少給500萬,你要不要給我承諾?"},{"start":347.571,"end":368.919,"text":"我過兩天要審理預算了,我準備把3800給他砍掉我跟你講,我內心的事情是這樣。朝委會不太開心,不要啦。朝委不會不開心,朝委一定支持我的,是不是?我們來立法院也是有個先來喝到,我想我們朝委對我是非常尊重,不是很尊重。"},{"start":371.288,"end":381.238,"text":"這樣子好不好,那個跟學生們報告一下,就是燈會的部分,我們跟連江縣政府提出來的時候,我們盡全力來協調。已經協調過了,是你們告訴他數字。"},{"start":385.819,"end":412.996,"text":"你應該叫他計畫提出來嘛,是350、400或是450、500,你告訴他我大概給你多少。我們來看一下是不是有等於是馬祖燈會以外的相關的周邊一起來。針對燈會齁,因為各縣市的比例其實都一樣。我知道,我現在講離島,我們離島永遠沒機會輪到對不對。你今天給馬祖五百萬,明年給金門五百萬,甚至更多一點,房屋更多一點,我都同意。"},{"start":413.596,"end":435.364,"text":"登會的部分就這樣,但其他的部分我們再來想辦法。從其他的部分來想辦法。這有預算的勒,每年都有預算,連續薪金費,每年都在編的勒,是不是?你要我對這個動手嗎?不要吧。我內心也不想,我也很掙扎。從周邊來協調。對,我們來協助,你能夠達成效果,這樣比較重要。會啦,會啦。從周邊來達成效果。你答應我至少給個500萬。"},{"start":441.021,"end":465.548,"text":"你點頭囉,這點頭你不是跟我...這不好說,我們從周邊來協助。我上來執行你就面帶微笑,對不對?內心的世界又是講不,或是研究。我不會協助馬祖先生,這個沒問題。好不好,你就給我個面子,不管怎麼樣給個五百萬。我希望風風光光的,我也快下台了,對不對?"},{"start":466.775,"end":495.373,"text":"做熱鬧一點好不好,你不要每年都這樣人人氣。我們也有管理處在那邊,林江縣政府的成就也是我們馬管處的成就。我們掛那個燈都不值啦,掛那個燈啦。馬管處另外的協助啦,馬管處會處理其他的。馬管處有他的經費?對啦,會處理另外的經費。你什麼東西都馬管處,馬管處有多少錢?去掉用人費沒剩多少錢啊?然後都是鐵的啊,鋼鐵啊鐵啊那不能吃的,都是資本門啊你知道嗎?"},{"start":496.494,"end":521.97,"text":"不能吃的,消耗不了好不好?署長有時候會協助。署長齁,你給五百萬齁,這個你答應我,你要做到齁。好,另外我又回頭到前天跟部長質詢的我們的包機,高雄到馬祖的包機齁。這個第三階段,署長我跟部長報告過囉,部長說要跟你商量啦齁。"},{"start":526.328,"end":536.08,"text":"我早上打電話去觀光署,他們說什麼兩百萬啊?他不知道有這麼一回事,也不知道前面給了我們多少,他也不知道。"},{"start":537.025,"end":561.307,"text":"怎麼可以這樣?部長回去,或是部長在那邊接受質詢,你們底下都沒聽。您直接打給署長,不用打給觀光署啦。不要打給觀光署?你直接打給署長就好。打給署長喔?是是是。署長你今年講說沒錢嘛對不對?我們一直擠啊一直擠啊,抽了兩百萬出來嘛對不對?那你明年新的預算錢太多太多啦,多少錢我跟你講齁?"},{"start":562.981,"end":573.008,"text":"各特色活動補助編列了3.35億,國外包機郵輪補助4623萬。這是非常多的活動,包括我們台灣觀光聯力還有我們各…3.35億,200萬在裡面是拔他一根毛而已啊,你瞭解沒有?"},{"start":590.635,"end":610.676,"text":"所以部長,我前天問部長,部長說還要跟你商量咧?我如果是部長的話,陳委員,不只兩百萬,給你三百萬。部長你要有這個gas、魄力嘛,對不對?你這樣我才瞧得起你啊,我已經很看得起你了,但是我希望你再加油好不好?好、好、好。這個、這個周署長。"},{"start":611.96,"end":640.561,"text":"第三階段的包機拜託您成全。我在20幾號在民航局我要主持,我跟許智傑委員共同主持馬高航線後續的事宜,要把它轉為固定航班。我們也希望促成。你不要光希望,你光希望有什麼用?大家都在希望,你也是一顆螺絲釘,你這個螺絲釘把它釘上去的話就固定了,好不好?把它變成固定航班。署長有沒有問題?"},{"start":641.92,"end":644.182,"text":"你們現在二十幾號要開會嘛,那就看會議的結論怎麼樣?會議結論,我是主席啊,我把結論先告訴你。"},{"start":668.626,"end":672.894,"text":"我已經把結論告訴你啦!看你要還是不要嘛!好不好?好啦,謝謝部長、謝謝署長、謝謝主席。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1045,"blocks":[["陳委員雪生：（12時18分）召委謝謝，時間暫停。我首先要跟我們交通部老部長王國材部長致意，我不會質詢你，還有我們那個龍哥啊！一起屬龍的，今年龍年犯太歲，我們大家生活起居都要小心。好，是不是請部長？"],["主席：好，陳部長，那王國材部長不要喔？"],["陳委員雪生：沒有、沒有，請陳部長，對不起。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["陳委員雪生：部長，我最近在觀察你，我發現你的優點，不管誰質詢你，不管哪位立委質詢你，你先面帶笑容，面帶笑容就是爭取善意對不對？就不會吵架，也不會兇你。"],["陳部長世凱：是，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員雪生：但是你心裡面，回答的不是「不」就是研究，你太厲害了，有沒有這一招？你自己感覺呢？"],["陳部長世凱：我回答「不」的不多啦！"],["陳委員雪生：這樣子喔！另外是不是請觀光署署長？部長，最近臺北跟上海論壇，我這兩天有一個感觸跟想法，他們可以由副市長或是市長來這邊跟臺北市交流，我們也可以去和對方交流啊！你看最近馬祖連江縣的縣委書記還有馬尾的區委書記陸續到馬祖來參訪，他們是用次團體的名義過來，那我們也可以用次團體的名義過去啊！我想我們觀光署跟中國大陸應該沒有正常的管道，如果能夠由署長、副署長用觀光旅遊次團體的名義，帶著副理事長、理事長到對面去，正面跟他溝通嘛！","我剛從上海回來沒多久，上海他們那邊很希望來臺灣觀光，他說我們團不放，我們團沒有不放，我們王前部長也在場，他有放，他冒著風險放了，問題是大陸又不放，那你這樣子沒有一個交流的管道，這樣下去我覺得不是好事。我們拿錢去買觀光，你看拿很多的補助，讓韓國、東南亞國家的人進來對不對？這不是正道，部長，我覺得你可以向上面反映一下，好不好？有沒有這樣的想法？請你回答我。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我們一些次團體，比如說公協會，其實他們跟對岸的交流都有在做，不是沒有。但是觀光署是比較官方的身分，或許對岸不一定接受，這個部分要先跟委員報告。"],["陳委員雪生：但是他們官方的過來我們接受啦！"],["陳部長世凱：我們其實都一直滿開放的。"],["陳委員雪生：我們也用官方的過去嘛！你起碼先試一下看看，你不試怎麼行咧！是不是？"],["陳部長世凱：我們探詢看看有沒有這樣的機會。"],["陳委員雪生：你看從8月、9月到現在，我們金門、馬祖開放了，來的人大概不到6,000人。"],["陳部長世凱：對，在馬祖的狀況是比較少，一天差不多100人。"],["陳委員雪生：不到6,000人，這次當然我們也建議蔣萬安市長能夠跟華源副市長藉著這樣的交流平台讓一些人過來，這樣軍事的對峙不會那麼緊張、那麼嚴重。其實我也要談到燈會，我在這邊質詢了10年，你看這個燈會從高雄、臺中、桃園，桃園是明年辦燈會對吧？"],["陳部長世凱：對，明年的。"],["周署長永暉：對，明年2月。"],["陳委員雪生：那桃園辦燈會等於是第二輪，我請問周署長，這是各縣市輪流辦，還是就是6都在辦？"],["周署長永暉：他也是提出申請，然後我們兩年宣布一次──2025在桃園，2026在嘉義，2027是在苗栗。"],["陳委員雪生：那有沒有機會輪到金門、馬祖、澎湖？"],["周署長永暉：因為它是大型的計畫……"],["陳委員雪生：你講實話沒關係啦！"],["周署長永暉：目前來講，因為要再搭飛機跟船的話……"],["陳委員雪生：你就講沒有就好了嘛！對不對，沒有機會嘛！部長，你不要笑啊！你心裡面也是講「不」啦！"],["周署長永暉：主要是考慮到那算超大型活動。"],["陳委員雪生：那我講了嘛！你既然沒有超大型的話，金門、馬祖、澎湖是亞細亞的孤兒、離島中的離島，是不是？"],["周署長永暉：不會啦！有其他的活動。"],["陳委員雪生：那我們馬祖今年要辦燈會，你們準備補助我們多少？"],["周署長永暉：如果地方舉辦的話，我們通案是縣市政府的話，一律可以200萬。"],["陳委員雪生：200萬辦什麼？買那個小孩子提的燈籠是不是？"],["周署長永暉：不會啦！我們在這次桃園的主燈裡面有一個設計，也有馬祖的燈……"],["陳委員雪生：沒有，我很嚴肅的跟你報告，你最少要給500萬，因為你這裡都是3,800萬，六都裡面的這幾個縣市都是3,800、3,800，從2020年開始，每年都是3,800萬，你最少給500萬，你要不要給我承諾？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，這個你看到3,800……"],["陳委員雪生：我過兩天要審你的預算了，我準備把3,800砍掉，我跟你講，我內心的世界是這樣。"],["陳部長世凱：召委會不太開心，不要啦！"],["陳委員雪生：召委不會不開心啊！召委一定支持我的啊！是不是？我們來立法院也是有個先來後到，我想我們召委對我是非常尊重，不是只有很尊重喔！是不是？"],["周署長永暉：這樣子好不好？跟雪生委員報告一下，就是燈會的部分，我們等連江縣政府提出來的時候，我們盡全力來協助。"],["陳委員雪生：已經協調過了，是你們要告訴他數字，你應該叫他計畫提出來，是350、400，或是450、500，你告訴他大概會給多少，你只能在額度範圍內處理吧！"],["周署長永暉：我們來看一下是不是有馬祖燈會以外相關的周邊一起來協調。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，針對燈會，因為各縣市的比例其實都一樣，如果這個拆開的話會不太好……"],["陳委員雪生：我知道，我現在講離島，我們離島永遠沒機會輪到，對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：不會、不會……"],["陳委員雪生：你今年給馬祖500萬，明年給金門500萬，甚至更多一點，給澎湖更多一點，我都同意。"],["陳部長世凱：對，剛剛署長說了，燈會的部分就這樣，其他的部分我們再來想辦法，從其他的部分來想辦法，不要從燈會這邊……"],["陳委員雪生：這有預算的欸！每年都有預算，連續性經費，每年都在編的欸！是不是？你要我對這個動手嗎？不要吧！我內心也不想，我也很掙扎。"],["周署長永暉：用周邊。"],["陳部長世凱：委員，我們從周邊來協調。"],["周署長永暉：對，我們來協助，你能夠達成效果，這樣比較重要。"],["陳部長世凱：從周邊來達成效果。"],["陳委員雪生：會啦！會啦！你答應我至少給個500萬，你點頭了喔！"],["陳部長世凱：這不好說，我們從周邊來協助啦！"],["陳委員雪生：所以我說嘛！我上來質詢你就面帶微笑，內心的世界又是講「不」或是研究，這樣不好啦！"],["陳部長世凱：沒有、沒有，我們會來協助連江縣政府，這個沒問題。"],["陳委員雪生：周署長，好不好？你就給我個面子，不管怎麼樣給個500萬，我希望風風光光的，我也快下台了，對不對？做熱鬧一點嘛！好不好？你不要每年都這樣很冷清……"],["周署長永暉：我們也有管理處在那邊，連江縣政府的成就也是我們馬管處的成就，我們會盡力。"],["陳委員雪生：你不要冷冷清清，就小孩子幾個燈籠，我們掛那個燈就不止了，掛那個燈……"],["陳部長世凱：馬管處會有另外的協助，會處理其他的。"],["陳委員雪生：你不要講馬管處，馬管處有它的經費，你什麼東西都馬管處，馬管處有多少錢？去掉用人費就沒剩多少錢啦！然後都是鐵的啊！鋼鐵、鐵是不能吃的，都是資本門，你知道嗎？那不能吃的，消化不了，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：署長有說會協助。"],["陳委員雪生：署長，你給500萬，這個你答應我，你要做到喔！"],["陳部長世凱：在這邊不能講。"],["陳委員雪生：另外，我要回到前天跟部長質詢的，我們高雄到馬祖包機的第三階段，署長，我跟部長報告過了，部長說要跟你商量。我早上打電話去觀光署，他們說什麼200萬，他不知道有這麼一回事，也不知道前面給了我們多少，他也不知道，怎麼可以這樣？部長在這邊接受質詢，你們底下都沒聽。"],["陳部長世凱：您直接打給署長就好，不用打給觀光署啦！"],["陳委員雪生：不要打給觀光署？"],["陳部長世凱：對，您直接打給署長就好。"],["陳委員雪生：打給署長，署長，你今年講都沒錢對不對？我們一直擠、一直擠，湊了200萬出來對不對？那你明年新的預算，錢太多太多了，我跟你講多少錢，各特色活動補助編列了3.35億，3.35億喔！國外包機、郵輪補助4,623萬，這裡……"],["周署長永暉：這是非常多的活動啦！包括我們臺灣觀光年曆，還有我們各縣……"],["陳委員雪生：3.35億，200萬在裡面只是像拔了一根毛而已，你瞭解沒有？所以我前天問部長，部長說還要跟你商量，我如果是部長的話，我就會說：「陳委員，不只200萬，給你300萬！」部長，你要有這個guts、魄力嘛！對不對？你這樣我才瞧得起你啊！我已經很看得起你了，但是我希望你再加油好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["陳委員雪生：周署長，第三階段的包機，拜託您成全，我二十幾號在民航局，要跟許智傑委員共同主持馬高航線後續的事宜，要把它轉為固定航班，好不好？"],["周署長永暉：是，我們也希望促成。"],["陳委員雪生：你不要光希望啊！你光希望有什麼用？大家都在希望，你也是一根螺絲釘欸！你這個螺絲釘釘上去的話就固定了嘛！好不好？把它變成固定航班，署長，有沒有問題？"],["陳部長世凱：問題是固定航班不是他管的。"],["周署長永暉：航班是民航局管的。"],["陳委員雪生：我知道啊！我問你就好了，時間到了，我不好意思，召委一直看我，有沒有問題？第三階段這個你幫我促成一下。"],["陳部長世凱：固定航班你們現在是在二十幾號要開會，那就看會議的結論怎麼樣。"],["陳委員雪生：你說要看會議結論，我是主席啊！我把結論先告訴你。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員雪生：我已經把結論告訴你了，看你要還是不要嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：好，我們就照那個會議結論。"],["陳委員雪生：好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["陳委員雪生：好，謝謝部長、謝謝署長、謝謝主席。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝。"],["周署長永暉：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員，那個馬祖燈會承諾的錢要到喔！因為我們聽到了。","請鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","有請羅廷瑋委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":78,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-16","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","許智傑","林國成","林俊憲","廖先翔","陳素月","翁曉玲","蔡其昌","何欣純","徐富癸","楊瓊瓔","王義川","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳雪生","羅廷瑋","張啓楷","邱若華","游顥","黃珊珊","葉元之","黃健豪","羅智強"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-18"],"gazette_id":"1141102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1141102_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、交通部觀光署署長及桃園國際機場股份有限公司董事長就「如何提\n升過境及轉機旅客入境台灣觀光品質並增加觀光人數」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查114\n年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光署及所屬單位預算；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案\n附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業基金─觀光發展基金分預算；四、審查114年\n度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於交通部主管中華郵政股份有限公司營業預算【僅\n進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1141102_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}