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金"},{"start":170.792,"end":174.841,"text":"市場秘片清查後有未成年的少女會去拍攝。"},{"start":178.001,"end":200.88,"text":"對不對?那我們往下看。那請問一下,這些性暴力的被害人,我說的性暴力的被害人,他們受到的包括什麼?他們可能會覺得有壓力症候群,會自責,會反而做噩夢,甚至呢他們要面對討回公道要漫長的司法程序。請問,部長,你認為性侵害或性影響的被害人是不是都面臨到同樣的困境?"},{"start":202.571,"end":226.371,"text":"的確這些那個性侵害跟性影像的被害人,性侵害我們那個已經有列入了。是的。那個性影像的這部分是他整個這個不是一個身體受到的一個。他雖然不是身體直接受傷害,可是在他的性影像的製作或散佈的過程當中有同樣的問題。我們舉個例,來,次長要幫忙講,我們等一下看,次長你也幫忙回答。"},{"start":227.196,"end":228.717,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":249.645,"end":252.947,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於法務"},{"start":276.019,"end":282.783,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於法務部矯正機關作業基金收支部分關於法務部矯正機關作業基金收支部分關於法務部矯正機關作業基金"},{"start":299.81,"end":326.47,"text":"犯法法這樣規定只是遏止傷害擴大,有沒有對被害人進行保護或補償?有沒有?部長你覺得呢?往下看。有沒有?其他的那個三法是沒有,它是的確是像委員所講的齁,就是對加害者的這部分刑務者的一個加重,以及避免損害的一個擴大。但是我們看到了,但是犯罪被害人權益保障法它保護的目的是被害人。"},{"start":327.694,"end":350.337,"text":"檢察長是不是這樣子?您的理事長,張理事長,稱問這樣嗎?我是董事長。噢,董事長,對不起。董事長,基金是董事長。檢察長是這樣嗎?所以你們成立的目的是要保障,或者保護被害人嗎?對,我們是希望保護所有的被害人。好,那往下看。謝謝我們董事長,張董事長。很難得人家有人叫你中檔。"},{"start":352.666,"end":381.217,"text":"犯罪被害人權益保障法第3條其實你看看我們已經把性侵害當中至少把刑法的第221條還有兒少性剝削防治條例的33、34、35、36到37其實部長你對這個法條熟不熟還是要請黃次長答這些兒少性剝削防治從33條到第37條他處理的是什麼行為加害人的什麼行為"},{"start":383.817,"end":413.163,"text":"有沒有人知道?市長知道嗎?來市長講一下33就是怎麼樣?他對兒少進行挾持要強命他拍攝甚至在侵犯過程中在錄影對不對?33、34、35、36、37這5條都是直接這個加害人他是因為要製作影像而直接對當事人進行加害是不是這樣子?但是這些已經納入了犯保法了喔"},{"start":414.096,"end":441.563,"text":"但是有些犯罪是什麼我已經找不到誰做的影像了他可能偷拍但是這些影像的散播跟持有這些兒少性影像是不是同樣對被害人產生同樣的傷害他沒有直接對他這些行為人的現場的對身體的限制強迫可是後面的這些影像的散播他的傷害是同樣的市長你是不是這樣子"},{"start":441.883,"end":443.084,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":470.843,"end":475.507,"text":"黃次長你說了三個部分啊你說第一個一個是量能的問題"},{"start":476.892,"end":480.635,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於法務部矯正機關作業基金"},{"start":502.264,"end":504.746,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":510.919,"end":511.899,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":537.742,"end":559,"text":"好,你來看一下目前性侵的被害人他有生活重建有訴訟協助有保護命令有補償金但是性影像的被害人呢只有保護命令保護命令是什麼避免傷害擴大他有沒有生活重建有沒有訴訟協助有沒有補償金董事長看你宅心人後你覺不覺得未來性影像的被害人可以把這三個部分都補上"},{"start":560.379,"end":581.782,"text":"法務委員,這部分有待進一步的研議,那基本上如果能夠去多加保護,那我們也是贊成,只是剛剛那個黃市長有提到相關的一些的配套的一個措施,恐怕要再更深入的一個研議。委員現在請你上來,因為你白髮斑斑,慈眉善目,應該經常比我們次長好。"},{"start":583.021,"end":589.603,"text":"除了要求加強查緝性影像犯罪並下架犯罪影片之外,犯保法修法來強化包括性影像犯罪的被害人保障。"},{"start":603.516,"end":621.873,"text":"部長看你的態度囉你應該心腸也跟我們張董事長一樣第一項我們來全力來做那第二項的話我們真的是要研議那我們還要在內部再做一個研議那我想我們會最快速度跟委員來做一個報告"},{"start":622.073,"end":644.206,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":645.675,"end":662.758,"text":"報告委員,我想這部分我們會進一步研議,如果是可行的話當然我也樂觀啟程。您不適合講研議,你說我們努力來推動,研議是交給部裡面好不好?您努力來推動可以嗎?謝謝委員。謝謝委員是什麼意思?是我可以下台了嗎?"},{"start":663.945,"end":667.049,"text":"收支部分關於法務部矯正機關作業基金收支部分"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1280,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（11時8分）主席、在場委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場工作伙伴、媒體記者女士先生，我們有請鄭部長及犯保董事長的張檢察長，也請黃謀信黃常次。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員早，委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長好，檢察長好，還有次長好。今天我要談到的是為了強化被害人保障及扶助，犯保法應該納入性影像的犯罪。請問部長，我上次有跟你請教過，為什麼目前臺灣詐騙這麼嚴重，這些詐騙的被害人這麼多，有沒有考慮把它納入犯罪被害人的權益保障法，你說這個你不太認同，為什麼？什麼原因？詐騙犯罪這麼嚴重，犯保法為什麼不把這些詐騙的受害人納入呢？"],["鄭部長銘謙：詐騙的被害人這部分我們在詐欺危害防制條例第五十三條應該都有做一個保護了，我們犯罪被害人權益保障法最主要還是在保障、在補償。"],["鍾委員佳濱：就是以補償為出發點，我們來看一下，哪些犯罪的被害人適用犯保法，87年犯保法第一條怎麼說？你直接講，我都幫你列出來了。"],["張檢察長斗輝：因為犯罪被害而死亡的遺屬，或者受重傷，另外還有性侵這部分。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那是87年，你講得很快，我還沒問到那裡，死亡不可回復，受重傷可能傷殘，他的生活會因為這難以平復的傷害而陷於困頓，對不對？所以部長，被害人承受不能或難以回復的傷害是我們犯保法的優先適用，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：剛剛檢察長也說了，98年將性侵害的被害人納入，為什麼性侵害要比照死亡跟重傷？"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為他的身心受到創傷，這種的傷害事實上跟我們肉體的重傷其實是一致的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：同樣嚴重的，而且幾乎很難回復，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：納入犯保的原則，如果是財產犯罪的話，他的財產可能拿回來了，他的傷害可能就平復了，但是不管是死亡、傷殘、重傷害或性犯罪，它的傷害重大且難以完全回復，這是我們納入犯保的原則，你同意嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：同意。"],["鍾委員佳濱：可是你來看，最近的性影像犯罪，創意私房，他私藏私密片，清查之後有未成年的少女或一些拍攝，你知道這個問題很嚴重嘛！對不對！請問一下，這些性暴力的被害人，我說的性暴力的被害人他們受到的包括他們可能覺得有壓力症候群、會自責、會反覆做噩夢，甚至他們要面對討回公道要漫長的司法程序，請問部長，你認為性侵害或性影像的被害人是不是都面臨到同樣的困境？"],["鄭部長銘謙：的確這些性侵害、性影像的被害人，性侵害已經有列入了，性影像的部分不是身體受到性侵。"],["鍾委員佳濱：他雖然不是身體直接受傷害，可是在他的性影像的製作或散播的過程中有同樣的問題，我們舉個例，因為性愛片外流，結果網路上逼死了一個女子，走上絕路，是不是不亞於直接的身體受到侵害？性影像的侵害對被害人是不是同樣的嚴重，你認為呢？"],["黃次長謀信：事實上，為了防制性影像的問題，我們在犯罪被害人保護法上次修法的時候，我們把相關的保護另有防制相關的性影像的流竄。另外在性侵害防治法裡面也特別規定相關保護的規定，在我們上次修法的四法裡面，聯防四法其實已經做了相關的處理了。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好，你剛好印證了我幫你整理好的，部長你看，刑法我們增加第二十八章之一妨害性隱私及不實影像罪章，針對加害人加重刑責，把他的犯罪懲罰加重。兒少性剝削防制條例，你拍攝、散布、持有也是加重刑責。這是對犯罪者的，但是對被害人的呢？你說性侵害防治法我們要求下架，對不對！只是防止傷害擴大而已，有沒有對被害人予以補償？犯罪被害人權益保障法有說可命加害人移除影像，犯保法這樣規定只是遏止傷害擴大，有沒有對被害人進行保護或補償？部長你覺得呢？"],["鄭部長銘謙：其他的三法沒有，的確像委員所講的，就是對加害者的刑責加重，以及避免損害擴大。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是犯罪被害人權益保障法保護的目的是被害人，檢察長是不是這樣子？稱呼你張理事長。"],["張檢察長斗輝：我是董事長。"],["鍾委員佳濱：董事長對不起，基金是董事長，檢察長是這樣嗎？你們成立的目的是要保障或者保護被害人嘛！"],["張檢察長斗輝：對，我們希望保護所有的被害人。"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝張董事長，很難得，有沒有人叫你張董？犯罪被害人權益保障法第三條，我們已經把性侵害當中，至少把刑法的第二百二十一條、兒少性剝削防制條例的第三十三條、第三十四條、第三十五條、第三十六條到第三十七條，部長你對這個法條熟不熟？還是要請黃次長答？這些兒少性剝削防制從第三十三條到第三十七條處理的是什麼行為？加害人的什麼行為？有沒有人知道？次長知道嗎？次長講一下。第三十三條就是他對兒少進行脅持、強命他拍攝，甚至在侵害過程加以錄影，對不對？"],["黃次長謀信：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：第三十三條、第三十四條、第三十五條、第三十六條、第三十七條這五條都是直接，這個加害人因為要製作影像而直接對當事人進行加害，是不是這樣子？"],["黃次長謀信：對，上次修法修的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是這些已經納入了犯保法，可是有些犯罪已經找不到誰做的影像，他可能偷拍，但是這些兒少性影像的散播和持有對被害人產生同樣的傷害，他沒有直接被這些行為人現場對身體的限制、強迫，可是後面這些影像的散播的傷害是同樣的，次長，是不是這樣子？"],["黃次長謀信：這涉及到犯罪被害人保護的量能問題。"],["鍾委員佳濱：量能的問題？"],["黃次長謀信：沒有錯，涉及到國家預算的問題。"],["鍾委員佳濱：國家預算的問題？"],["黃次長謀信：對，包括剛剛的詐欺犯罪跟相關的犯罪是不是要列入犯保法的保障範圍，這個當然可以研議，我們希望對犯罪保護越多越好，無論是保護也好，或者財政上的資助也好，但這涉及到整體國家的財政跟我們犯保人力量能的問題。"],["鍾委員佳濱：黃次長說了三個部分，第一個是量能的問題，第二個是核心本質的問題，第三個是國家能力的問題，對不對？量能的問題，詐欺犯罪、經濟犯罪太多了，我們要努力的是減少犯罪，不是對被害人做補償，那是經濟的。可是身心的障礙難以平復的，我們都認為性侵有了，性影像的侵害對當事人是難以平復，本質上跟詐欺不同。第二個，你剛剛最後說到希望被害人統統都能夠保障，當然了，張董事長是這個理想，但是最後要考量的是我們政府的量能，但我要強調的是，你一直考量量能，但是你忽略了這些犯罪單單是散播和持有可能很容易犯這個罪，可是我們不能只考慮到它跟詐欺不一樣，詐欺是很普遍，第三十八條、第三十九條很普遍，可是造成傷害的本質是不同的。最後，部長看一下，目前性侵的被害人有生活重建、有訴訟協助、有保護命令、有補償金，但是性影像被害人只有保護命令，保護命令是什麼？避免傷害擴大，它有沒有生活重建、有沒有訴訟協助、有沒有補償金？董事長，看你宅心仁厚，你覺不覺得未來性影像的被害人可以把這三個部分都補上？"],["張檢察長斗輝：報告委員，這個部分有待進一步的研議，基本上，如果能夠多加保護，我們也是贊成，只是剛剛黃次長有提到相關的配套措施，恐怕要更深入的研議。"],["鍾委員佳濱：為什麼今天要請你上來？因為你白髮斑斑、慈眉善目，應該心腸比我們次長好，我們次長基於國家的財政考量，修法他比較猶豫，但是你宅心仁厚，犯罪被害人的保護你要努力推動。最後請鄭部長作結論，我們除了要求加強查緝性影像犯罪並下架犯罪影片之外，犯保法修法來強化包括性影像犯罪的被害人保障，部長，看你的態度囉！應該心腸也跟我們張董事長一樣。"],["鄭部長銘謙：第一項我們全力來做，第二項我們真的要研議，我們會用最快速度跟委員報告。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我也希望張董事長要持續推動，因為我們改革的力量總是有基於現實考量比較保守的，但是為了理想目標奮勇向前的，希望張董事長持續的奮勇向前，推動法務部把這件事情完成，董事長願意來承諾嗎？承諾會不會很嚴重？"],["張檢察長斗輝：報告委員，我想這部分我會進一步研議，如果是可行的，當然我也樂觀其成。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你不適合講研議，你說我們努力來推動，研議是交給部裡面，好不好？你努力來推動，可以嗎？"],["張檢察長斗輝：好，謝謝委員。"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝委員是什麼意思？是我可以下臺了嗎？是努力推動啦！部會裡面才是研議啦，可以嗎？"],["張檢察長斗輝：我們朝這個方向來規劃。"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝部長，謝謝張董事長和黃次長。"],["主席：接下來請洪孟楷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":424,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-20","speakers":["吳宗憲","莊瑞雄","黃國昌","陳俊宇","沈發惠","吳思瑤","羅智強","翁曉玲","鍾佳濱","洪孟楷","葉元之","楊瓊瓔","林思銘"],"page_start":127,"meetingDate":["2024-12-19"],"gazette_id":"1140905","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140905_00003","1140905_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於法務部及所屬主管收支部分；二、審查114年度中央政府\n總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於法務部主管「法務部矯正機關作業基金」收支部分；三、\n審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於法務部主管「毒品防制基金」收支\n部分；四、審查法務部函送財團法人臺灣更生保護會、財團法人福建更生保護會及財團法人犯罪\n被害人保護協會114年度預算書案；五、併案審查(一)委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「外役監條例第四\n條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員王世堅等19人擬具「外役監條例第四條及第二十一條條文修正草\n案」案、(三)委員陳玉珍等19人擬具「外役監條例第四條條文修正草案」案；六、繼續審查114\n年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分【第一案至第四案僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1140905_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}