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9T10:47:59+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:48:00+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:47:57.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:48:01.611000+08:00","text":"主委，REITs我想大家都非常支持，這個法案也已經出了委員會。對。","quality":0.724},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:48:02.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:48:15.097000+08:00","text":"你們應該去追一下，因為那時候是民進黨的召委主持的，為什麼到現在，這個到底……你們也是執政團隊應該去詢問一下民進黨團，為什麼到現在這個案子都還沒有排上來？","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:48:15.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:48:16.378000+08:00","text":"是，我們在努力中。對啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:48:16.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:48:18.338000+08:00","text":"到底還有什麼議題嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:48:18.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:48:21.360000+08:00","text":"因為大家都沒有什麼意見，這個也是相當好的法令。是。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:48:22.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:48:27.362000+08:00","text":"第二個本席也肯定你未雨綢繆做有關當沖降稅這件事情。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:48:28.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:48:44.168000+08:00","text":"明天的院會如果是按照民主程序，大家都循規蹈矩坐在座位上按表決鈕的話，那所有的法案都會循序通過或是否決，事實上當沖降稅，朝野各黨派也都沒有什麼意見，大家也都是支持延長3年。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:48:44.168000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:48:45.168000+08:00","text":"所以理論上明天只要民進黨不鬧場都會通過，但是你們還是要做相關的準備，這也是正確的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:48:44.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:48:45.309000+08:00","text":"有關金融消費者保護法，現在相關的這種租賃公司在全臺灣到底有多少家？","quality":0.323},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:49:02.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:49:08.675000+08:00","text":"其實它的範圍很難界定，要看它登記，粗略沒有官方統計的應該是數千家。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:49:09.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:49:09.215000+08:00","text":"多少家？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:49:10.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:49:10.817000+08:00","text":"數千家。數千？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:49:11.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:49:12.178000+08:00","text":"一千、三千、五千？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:49:12.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:49:13.299000+08:00","text":"這個就是它的邊界……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:49:13.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:49:14.460000+08:00","text":"數千，反正千家以上。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:49:14.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:49:16.141000+08:00","text":"因為這個定義很難。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:49:16.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:49:18.984000+08:00","text":"OK，好，沒關係，你們的粗略統計大概有數千家。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:49:18.984000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:49:20.165000+08:00","text":"等於有幾千家。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:49:20.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:49:20.806000+08:00","text":"幾千家就對了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:49:20.806000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:49:21.806000+08:00","text":"因為經濟部那個……","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:49:21.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:49:24.909000+08:00","text":"幾千家現在應該是屬於經濟部公司法所管的？對。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:49:25.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:49:26.571000+08:00","text":"經濟部所主管的。是的。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:49:26.571000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:49:31.437200+08:00","text":"所以我很肯定金管會願意承擔起這個責任，把原來經濟部所主管的這些公司，現在要納入你們金管會來主管。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:49:31.437200+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:49:36.303400+08:00","text":"就是大型的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:49:36.303400+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:49:41.169600+08:00","text":"怎麼可以分大型、小型呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:49:41.169600+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:49:46.035800+08:00","text":"你們如果要主管，就是同一個產業都要列入納管，我舉例比如這個金融……","quality":0.069},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:49:46.035800+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:49:50.902000+08:00","text":"消費者保護法。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:49:50.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:49:57.086000+08:00","text":"金融消費者保護法，你要使用的是第三條嘛！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:49:57.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:49:58.086000+08:00","text":"第三條，對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:49:57.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:50:01.809000+08:00","text":"就是本法所定金融服務業，包括銀行業、證券業、期貨業、保險業、電子支付業及其他……","quality":0.758},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:50:01.809000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:50:02.970000+08:00","text":"及其他經主管機關公告之金融服務業。","quality":0.062},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:50:02.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:50:06.272000+08:00","text":"經主管機關公告之金融服務業。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:50:06.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:50:12.575000+08:00","text":"金融服務業你們要做公告，所以你們公告的絕對不是一家、兩家的廠商，你們公告是這個產業。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:50:12.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:50:12.936000+08:00","text":"對，這個比較特別。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:50:13.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:50:15.598000+08:00","text":"這句話是「金融服務業」，一個產業……","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:50:15.598000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:50:16.598000+08:00","text":"這個跟委員報告……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:50:15.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:50:22.146000+08:00","text":"所以不管是一千家、兩千家，我很肯定你們願意把這一、兩千家納入金管會主管的範圍。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:50:22.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:50:22.427000+08:00","text":"其實沒有這個範圍。啊！什麼？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:50:22.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:50:23.568000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告一下，等於分兩點，一個就那個條文，指定之產業……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:50:23.568000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:50:27.752500+08:00","text":"公告之金融服務業，它指的是產業，金融服務業這是指產業，金融服務業這是一個產業，不是某一家。","quality":0.05},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:50:27.752500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:50:31.937000+08:00","text":"比如我們一般在講的融資公司……對。","quality":0.071},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:50:31.937000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:50:36.121500+08:00","text":"有的叫做融資租賃公司……對。","quality":0.091},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:50:36.121500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:50:40.306000+08:00","text":"有人叫做理財公司。","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:50:40.306000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:50:44.490500+08:00","text":"不管，反正數千家。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:50:44.490500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:50:48.675000+08:00","text":"現在不是一個產業。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:50:48.675000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:50:52.859500+08:00","text":"所以它還不是一個產業？","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:50:52.859500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:50:57.044000+08:00","text":"它沒辦法定義，比如說銀行業我就定義它，沒有辦法，所以……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:50:57.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:50:58.905000+08:00","text":"所以你認為這幾千家還不足以成為一個產業？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:50:59.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:51:04.447000+08:00","text":"它有分各種、各式各樣，它其實不是一個成型一樣的……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:51:04.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:51:13.771000+08:00","text":"你如果要特別公告所謂的那三家，就是我們所謂的三大租賃業，那個本來就在你們監管的範圍，因為他們也是上市櫃公司，他們本來就接受你們監管。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:51:13.771000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:51:14.771000+08:00","text":"那個強度不一樣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:51:14.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:51:20.934000+08:00","text":"如果你們要把它納入，把那三家特別納入，我覺得你知道……您是學者出身嘛？是。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:51:21.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:51:22.655000+08:00","text":"你知道行政程序法吧？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:51:22.655000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:51:23.956000+08:00","text":"我當然知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:51:23.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:51:24.656000+08:00","text":"行政程序法第六條，你知道是什麼嗎？","quality":0.467},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:51:24.656000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:51:27.265857+08:00","text":"我們法務處處長……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:51:27.265857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:51:29.875714+08:00","text":"您知道，您學者出身也懂吧！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:51:29.875714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:51:32.485571+08:00","text":"我先請教主委，等一下就輪到您。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:51:32.485571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:51:35.095429+08:00","text":"這個抱歉，我承認……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:51:35.095429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:51:37.705286+08:00","text":"行政程序法第六條是什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:51:37.705286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:51:40.315143+08:00","text":"第六條我不知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:51:40.315143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:51:42.925000+08:00","text":"那好，法務，第六條是什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:51:42.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:51:44.987000+08:00","text":"把那個條文唸給我聽一下，這個叫行政法裡頭的平等行為吧。","quality":0.56},{"speaker":"林處長志憲","start":"2024-12-19T10:51:45.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:51:46.748000+08:00","text":"對，應該原則是平等行為。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:51:46.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:51:49.991000+08:00","text":"對，原則平等的行為嘛，我唸給你聽──「行政行為，非有正當理由，不得為差別待遇」，所以等則等之、不等則不等之，這個法務這邊沒有什麼意見嘛！","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:51:50.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:51:51.091000+08:00","text":"我們學的行政法裡頭，這個是ABC。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:51:51.091000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:51:52.091000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的指正。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:51:51.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:51:53.513000+08:00","text":"如果這樣的情況下，你要特別的管制幾家業者，這造成一個不平等。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:52:10.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:52:23.377000+08:00","text":"我可以同意按照行政法規範，你可以全部產業都列管，因為金融消費者保護法也表示你要公告的是產業，而不是特定的家數，不然這造成行政上的不平等。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:52:23.377000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:52:25.379000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告一下，就是有關……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:52:25.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:52:27.200000+08:00","text":"這個法律的事情，您回去研究一下。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:52:27.200000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:52:29.102000+08:00","text":"是，沒問題，我會研究。","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:52:29.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:52:31.303000+08:00","text":"事實上我不畏懼任何人說我們接受任何陳情啦！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:52:31.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:52:34.506000+08:00","text":"我也是有接受陳情，因為本來對的事情就是應該做。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:52:34.506000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:52:35.506000+08:00","text":"是，了解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:52:34.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:52:41.571000+08:00","text":"政府的任何行政行為，不管影響到各個產業或是什麼，本來你們就應該要依法行政，這是最基本的原則。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:52:41.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:52:43.532000+08:00","text":"還有一點跟委員簡單說明。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:52:43.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:52:54.520000+08:00","text":"就是說我們對融資公司，這麼多的公司裡面，上次行政院政委裡面有做分工的協調，金管會只會管部分的大型金融機構。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:52:54.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:53:02.085000+08:00","text":"你們該管的，就是你們照法規定，比如上市櫃公司屬於你們監管，任何一家，不管它是哪一個，本來就歸你們管。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:53:02.085000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:53:03.085000+08:00","text":"對，就是大型的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:53:02.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:53:10.811000+08:00","text":"但是如果按照產業，對產業某幾家挑起來管，你們本來在監管裡頭就應該監管，這個是你們合法的監管。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:53:10.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:53:11.811000+08:00","text":"第一個，那個產業的範圍……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:53:11.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:53:14.136000+08:00","text":"但是如果你要做這個公告，就要依法公告。對。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:53:14.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:53:17.540000+08:00","text":"這個公告就必須按照法律第三條規定的，按照產業……","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:53:17.540000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:53:18.540000+08:00","text":"如果它的產業很明確……","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:53:17.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:53:24.690000+08:00","text":"如果把這個產業整個搬到你這邊來公告，那個我也是尊重你，因為你要管數千家，你勇於承擔，我也是表示肯定。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:53:24.690000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:53:26.572000+08:00","text":"這不可能，金管會不可能管數千家。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:53:26.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:53:30.795000+08:00","text":"不可能，你就不能做差別行為的待遇，這是行政法的規定。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:53:30.795000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:53:31.795000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:53:31.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:53:34.797000+08:00","text":"我們今天不是辯這個，因為接下去我還有其他議題。","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:53:34.797000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:53:35.797000+08:00","text":"好，了解，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:53:35.797000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:53:36.797000+08:00","text":"我找時間再跟委員報告。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:53:34.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:53:38.760000+08:00","text":"這個你們回去再針對法律研究一下，再好好依法行政研究一下。是。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:53:39.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:53:56.193000+08:00","text":"因為我要討論我們金門的議題，我們之前有去考察金門的金融環境，在那時候我們做了一些相關的結論，您知道金門現在位置特殊，在兩岸現在比較冰凍的情況下，包括旅遊業也是一樣，現在雖然大陸沒有開放到臺灣來旅遊，臺灣也沒有解除到大陸的禁團令，所以現在兩岸關係在觀光產業裡頭算是相當冰凍，在這種冰凍的情況下，兩岸交流是相對少的，就是比較冷、非常冰凍。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:53:56.193000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:54:12.868000+08:00","text":"但是金門很特別，金門這個地理位置很特別，還有它在這個特別的情況下，金門扮演一個還滿不錯的角色，那就是今天大陸客是可以到金門觀光旅遊的，大陸福建的居民是可以到金門，不管是團體或是自由行，這個是開放的，陸委會這邊也是同意的，就是說，兩岸的執政當局都同意，大陸的人可以到金門，金門的人可以到大陸，這個都是同意的，跟臺灣本島地區的作法有點不一樣。","quality":0.006},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:54:12.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:55:04.516000+08:00","text":"我覺得金管會也應該善用這個優勢，因為在之前我們去考察的時候，我們說出希望在金門地區是不是可以做一些兩岸金融相關的發展，兩岸之間不管怎麼樣，金融方面一定會有很多交流往來，這是無可避免的，人來來往往、貨來來往往，或是住在那邊的會過來，反正這個一定有，也許金門可以在這方面扮演一個角色。","quality":0.496},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:55:07.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:55:29.241000+08:00","text":"在我們之前考察結束有相關的新聞報導，我看到大陸國台辦特別針對這一點有說願意和金門同胞共同探索兩岸金融領域融合發展的新路徑新樣式，這是大陸特別提出來的。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:55:29.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:55:35.007000+08:00","text":"事實上我們是希望金門可以在這部分扮演什麼角色，但大陸也主動提出來這個說法。","quality":0.743},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:55:36.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:55:51.379000+08:00","text":"在這個部分，我看到陸委會有說法，針對這個部分說到，金融業赴金門去設點要市場驅動，而非政治力量；這個我也同意；接著又說，整體政策應該透過金管會來研析。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:55:52.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:56:01.203000+08:00","text":"也就是，陸委會認為在兩岸之間，金門在這方面是不是可以扮演什麼角色，應該是由你們再做一些研究。","quality":0.738},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:56:03.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:56:04.745000+08:00","text":"針對這個部分，您有什麼看法嗎？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:56:05.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:56:09.108000+08:00","text":"我想我們陳副主委也有參與這次參訪。對。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:56:09.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:56:21.777000+08:00","text":"也有深入跟縣長……他回來就有說這件事情，後來看到媒體的報導，我們後面這些同仁，我回去就說這個議題要先開始研究一下。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:56:21.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:56:27.981000+08:00","text":"對，比如說保險方面，說不定大陸人到金門去就可以買保單什麼的，這個也是增進我們產業的發展啊！","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:56:28.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:56:29.322000+08:00","text":"這都是有可能的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:56:30.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:56:31.404000+08:00","text":"對，所以我們現在就請同仁去……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:56:31.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:56:32.284000+08:00","text":"你們去研究一下啦！是的。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:56:32.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:56:36.128000+08:00","text":"到時候再給我們一個報告，到時候大家再看怎麼樣在兩岸之間讓金門扮演這個角色，除了在旅遊、觀光方面，看能不能也幫助我們，國內說不定也有業者有這樣的需求。","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:56:36.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:56:36.388000+08:00","text":"委員對金門很關心，我們會的。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:56:36.388000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:56:36.668000+08:00","text":"這是當然的，我是金門的立委。是。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:56:36.668000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:56:38.879833+08:00","text":"接著我們看一下，據媒體報導，金管會今年裁罰金額劇減8,101萬，請問是因為什麼原因呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:56:38.879833+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:56:41.091667+08:00","text":"是沒有更有效的監管方式呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:56:41.091667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:56:43.303500+08:00","text":"還是大家都變乖了？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:56:43.303500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:56:45.515333+08:00","text":"因為你上任以後……","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:56:45.515333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:56:47.727167+08:00","text":"我想我們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:56:47.727167+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:56:49.939000+08:00","text":"還是你們力道鬆懈了？","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:56:49.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:57:28.574000+08:00","text":"委員也是法律專家，我們講刑期無刑，政府的公權力不是為了裁罰，如果單只兩年就說怎麼樣，我覺得也是很特別，我想這個完全沒辦法這樣比擬，我上任就講過，其實監理不能鬆，但是發展不能忘。我想……","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:57:29.194000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:57:34.339000+08:00","text":"對，這個我也肯定你，事實上，業界也有很多肯定，希望有一些創新的改變。","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:57:34.339000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:57:35.339000+08:00","text":"因為去年有幾個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:57:34.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:57:48.694000+08:00","text":"不過對於應該合法遵守的，很多都應該合法遵守，我舉例，我們有接到具體的檢舉，KY公司有價證券買賣管理是不是準用我國證交法？是嘛！","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:57:50.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:57:54.820000+08:00","text":"有民眾具體檢舉KY公司明顯違反證交法，向金管會舉發，聽說你們不管？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:57:56.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:57:58.364000+08:00","text":"沒有，我想這已經進入到司法程序……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:57:58.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:58:09.154000+08:00","text":"對，進入司法，下一個問題就是，如果已經涉及刑事責任，那當然刑事上檢調單位應該負責，但在你們行政上來講，金管會也不用管了嗎？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:58:09.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:58:14.298000+08:00","text":"沒有，我們當然會去研究這個案例，因為這個是在境外的合併案，是境外的合併案……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:58:14.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:58:15.059000+08:00","text":"不只一個啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:58:15.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:58:16.881000+08:00","text":"我這邊手上好幾個檢舉案例。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:58:16.881000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:58:18.502000+08:00","text":"那當然……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:58:18.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:58:32.903000+08:00","text":"我的意思是說，刑事的部分，調查有很多種，管理有很多種，法律上有刑事的、有行政的，刑事的部分我們交給檢調單位去查，但你們裡頭事實上也有檢察官，你們也有相關權力，你們也可以去調查。對。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:58:33.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:58:37.567000+08:00","text":"但是到了行政的部分，是不是你們還是應該進行行政上的監管？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:58:38.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:58:41.691000+08:00","text":"還是真的你上任以後就開始變成如大家所說的，就開始不管了？沒有。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:58:41.691000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:58:45.440250+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，該我們管的，我們不是想不想管，我們也跑不掉，該我們管的，我們就是要管，沒有說想不想管的問題，我想這個是應該的。","quality":0.057},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:58:45.440250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:58:49.189500+08:00","text":"如果不是我們管的話，你不是想管就能管。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:58:49.189500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:58:52.938750+08:00","text":"所以行政上的監管應該還是要存在嘛，對吧？","quality":0.056},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:58:52.938750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:58:56.688000+08:00","text":"如果它是屬於我們轄管範圍，我們當然要管。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:58:56.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:59:07.071000+08:00","text":"我們手頭上有相當多民間來的檢舉案件，所以我們會一一將資料提供給你們。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:59:07.071000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:59:08.071000+08:00","text":"可以，歡迎。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:59:07.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:59:08.991000+08:00","text":"希望你們要確實監管。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:59:09.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:59:10.592000+08:00","text":"當然，我們依法辦理，一定。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:59:10.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:59:11.252000+08:00","text":"一定要依法辦理。是。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2024-12-19T10:59:12.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:59:12.912000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-12-19T10:59:12.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:59:15.253000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-19T10:59:15.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-19T10:59:16.793000+08:00","text":"謝謝陳玉珍召委，謝謝彭主委。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席（陳委員玉珍）","start":"2024-12-19T10:59:17.293000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-19T10:59:19.578714+08:00","text":"接著請顏寬恒委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":790,"blocks":[["陳委員玉珍：（10時47分）主席，有請彭主委。"],["主席：有請金管會彭主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["陳委員玉珍：主委，REITs我想大家都非常支持，這個法案也已經出了委員會。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。"],["陳委員玉珍：你們應該去追一下，因為那時候是民進黨的召委主持的，為什麼到現在，這個到底……你們也是執政團隊應該去詢問一下民進黨團，為什麼到現在這個案子都還沒有排上來？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，我們在努力中。"],["陳委員玉珍：對啊！到底還有什麼議題嗎？因為大家都沒有什麼意見，這個也是相當好的法令。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["陳委員玉珍：第二個本席也肯定你未雨綢繆做有關當沖降稅這件事情。明天的院會如果是按照民主程序，大家都循規蹈矩坐在座位上按表決鈕的話，那所有的法案都會循序通過或是否決，事實上當沖降稅，朝野各黨派也都沒有什麼意見，大家也都是支持延長3年。所以理論上明天只要民進黨不鬧場都會通過，但是你們還是要做相關的準備，這也是正確的。","有關金融消費者保護法，現在相關的這種租賃公司在全臺灣到底有多少家？"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實它的範圍很難界定，要看它登記，粗略沒有官方統計的應該是數千家。"],["陳委員玉珍：多少家？"],["彭主任委員金隆：數千家。"],["陳委員玉珍：數千？一千、三千、五千？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個就是它的邊界……"],["陳委員玉珍：數千，反正千家以上。"],["彭主任委員金隆：因為這個定義很難。"],["陳委員玉珍：OK，好，沒關係，你們的粗略統計大概有數千家。"],["彭主任委員金隆：等於有幾千家。"],["陳委員玉珍：幾千家就對了。"],["彭主任委員金隆：因為經濟部那個……"],["陳委員玉珍：幾千家現在應該是屬於經濟部公司法所管的？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。"],["陳委員玉珍：經濟部所主管的。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是的。"],["陳委員玉珍：所以我很肯定金管會願意承擔起這個責任，把原來經濟部所主管的這些公司，現在要納入你們金管會來主管。"],["彭主任委員金隆：就是大型的。"],["陳委員玉珍：怎麼可以分大型、小型呢？你們如果要主管，就是同一個產業都要列入納管，我舉例比如這個金融……"],["彭主任委員金隆：消費者保護法。"],["陳委員玉珍：金融消費者保護法，你要使用的是第三條嘛！"],["彭主任委員金隆：第三條，對。"],["陳委員玉珍：就是本法所定金融服務業，包括銀行業、證券業、期貨業、保險業、電子支付業及其他……"],["彭主任委員金隆：及其他經主管機關公告之金融服務業。"],["陳委員玉珍：經主管機關公告之金融服務業。金融服務業你們要做公告，所以你們公告的絕對不是一家、兩家的廠商，你們公告是這個產業。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，這個比較特別。"],["陳委員玉珍：這句話是「金融服務業」，一個產業……"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個跟委員報告……"],["陳委員玉珍：所以不管是一千家、兩千家，我很肯定你們願意把這一、兩千家納入金管會主管的範圍。"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實沒有這個範圍。"],["陳委員玉珍：啊！什麼？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我跟委員報告一下，等於分兩點，一個就那個條文，指定之產業……"],["陳委員玉珍：公告之金融服務業，它指的是產業，金融服務業這是指產業，金融服務業這是一個產業，不是某一家。"],["彭主任委員金隆：比如我們一般在講的融資公司……"],["陳委員玉珍：對。"],["彭主任委員金隆：有的叫做融資租賃公司……"],["陳委員玉珍：對。"],["彭主任委員金隆：有人叫做理財公司。"],["陳委員玉珍：不管，反正數千家。"],["彭主任委員金隆：現在不是一個產業。"],["陳委員玉珍：所以它還不是一個產業？"],["彭主任委員金隆：它沒辦法定義，比如說銀行業我就定義它，沒有辦法，所以……"],["陳委員玉珍：所以你認為這幾千家還不足以成為一個產業？"],["彭主任委員金隆：它有分各種、各式各樣，它其實不是一個成型一樣的……"],["陳委員玉珍：你如果要特別公告所謂的那三家，就是我們所謂的三大租賃業，那個本來就在你們監管的範圍，因為他們也是上市櫃公司，他們本來就接受你們監管。"],["彭主任委員金隆：那個強度不一樣。"],["陳委員玉珍：如果你們要把它納入，把那三家特別納入，我覺得你知道……您是學者出身嘛？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["陳委員玉珍：你知道行政程序法吧？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我當然知道。"],["陳委員玉珍：行政程序法第六條，你知道是什麼嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們法務處處長……"],["陳委員玉珍：您知道，您學者出身也懂吧！我先請教主委，等一下就輪到您。"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個抱歉，我承認……"],["陳委員玉珍：行政程序法第六條是什麼？"],["彭主任委員金隆：第六條我不知道。"],["陳委員玉珍：那好，法務，第六條是什麼？把那個條文唸給我聽一下，這個叫行政法裡頭的平等行為吧。"],["林處長志憲：對，應該原則是平等行為。"],["陳委員玉珍：對，原則平等的行為嘛，我唸給你聽──「行政行為，非有正當理由，不得為差別待遇」，所以等則等之、不等則不等之，這個法務這邊沒有什麼意見嘛！我們學的行政法裡頭，這個是ABC。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員的指正。"],["陳委員玉珍：如果這樣的情況下，你要特別的管制幾家業者，這造成一個不平等。我可以同意按照行政法規範，你可以全部產業都列管，因為金融消費者保護法也表示你要公告的是產業，而不是特定的家數，不然這造成行政上的不平等。"],["彭主任委員金隆：跟委員報告一下，就是有關……"],["陳委員玉珍：這個法律的事情，您回去研究一下。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，沒問題，我會研究。"],["陳委員玉珍：事實上我不畏懼任何人說我們接受任何陳情啦！我也是有接受陳情，因為本來對的事情就是應該做。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，了解。"],["陳委員玉珍：政府的任何行政行為，不管影響到各個產業或是什麼，本來你們就應該要依法行政，這是最基本的原則。"],["彭主任委員金隆：還有一點跟委員簡單說明。"],["陳委員玉珍：好。"],["彭主任委員金隆：就是說我們對融資公司，這麼多的公司裡面，上次行政院政委裡面有做分工的協調，金管會只會管部分的大型金融機構。"],["陳委員玉珍：你們該管的，就是你們照法規定，比如上市櫃公司屬於你們監管，任何一家，不管它是哪一個，本來就歸你們管。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，就是大型的……"],["陳委員玉珍：但是如果按照產業，對產業某幾家挑起來管，你們本來在監管裡頭就應該監管，這個是你們合法的監管。"],["彭主任委員金隆：第一個，那個產業的範圍……"],["陳委員玉珍：但是如果你要做這個公告，就要依法公告。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。"],["陳委員玉珍：這個公告就必須按照法律第三條規定的，按照產業……"],["彭主任委員金隆：如果它的產業很明確……"],["陳委員玉珍：如果把這個產業整個搬到你這邊來公告，那個我也是尊重你，因為你要管數千家，你勇於承擔，我也是表示肯定。"],["彭主任委員金隆：這不可能，金管會不可能管數千家。"],["陳委員玉珍：不可能，你就不能做差別行為的待遇，這是行政法的規定。"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒有、沒有……"],["陳委員玉珍：我們今天不是辯這個，因為接下去我還有其他議題。"],["彭主任委員金隆：好，了解，謝謝。我找時間再跟委員報告。"],["陳委員玉珍：這個你們回去再針對法律研究一下，再好好依法行政研究一下。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["陳委員玉珍：因為我要討論我們金門的議題，我們之前有去考察金門的金融環境，在那時候我們做了一些相關的結論，您知道金門現在位置特殊，在兩岸現在比較冰凍的情況下，包括旅遊業也是一樣，現在雖然大陸沒有開放到臺灣來旅遊，臺灣也沒有解除到大陸的禁團令，所以現在兩岸關係在觀光產業裡頭算是相當冰凍，在這種冰凍的情況下，兩岸交流是相對少的，就是比較冷、非常冰凍。但是金門很特別，金門這個地理位置很特別，還有它在這個特別的情況下，金門扮演一個還滿不錯的角色，那就是今天大陸客是可以到金門觀光旅遊的，大陸福建的居民是可以到金門，不管是團體或是自由行，這個是開放的，陸委會這邊也是同意的，就是說，兩岸的執政當局都同意，大陸的人可以到金門，金門的人可以到大陸，這個都是同意的，跟臺灣本島地區的作法有點不一樣。我覺得金管會也應該善用這個優勢，因為在之前我們去考察的時候，我們說出希望在金門地區是不是可以做一些兩岸金融相關的發展，兩岸之間不管怎麼樣，金融方面一定會有很多交流往來，這是無可避免的，人來來往往、貨來來往往，或是住在那邊的會過來，反正這個一定有，也許金門可以在這方面扮演一個角色。在我們之前考察結束有相關的新聞報導，我看到大陸國台辦特別針對這一點有說願意和金門同胞共同探索兩岸金融領域融合發展的新路徑新樣式，這是大陸特別提出來的。事實上我們是希望金門可以在這部分扮演什麼角色，但大陸也主動提出來這個說法。在這個部分，我看到陸委會有說法，針對這個部分說到，金融業赴金門去設點要市場驅動，而非政治力量；這個我也同意；接著又說，整體政策應該透過金管會來研析。也就是，陸委會認為在兩岸之間，金門在這方面是不是可以扮演什麼角色，應該是由你們再做一些研究。針對這個部分，您有什麼看法嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想我們陳副主委也有參與這次參訪。"],["陳委員玉珍：對。"],["彭主任委員金隆：也有深入跟縣長……他回來就有說這件事情，後來看到媒體的報導，我們後面這些同仁，我回去就說這個議題要先開始研究一下。"],["陳委員玉珍：對，比如說保險方面，說不定大陸人到金門去就可以買保單什麼的，這個也是增進我們產業的發展啊！這都是有可能的。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，所以我們現在就請同仁去……"],["陳委員玉珍：你們去研究一下啦！"],["彭主任委員金隆：是的。"],["陳委員玉珍：到時候再給我們一個報告，到時候大家再看怎麼樣在兩岸之間讓金門扮演這個角色，除了在旅遊、觀光方面，看能不能也幫助我們，國內說不定也有業者有這樣的需求。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員對金門很關心，我們會的。"],["陳委員玉珍：這是當然的，我是金門的立委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["陳委員玉珍：接著我們看一下，據媒體報導，金管會今年裁罰金額劇減8,101萬，請問是因為什麼原因呢？是沒有更有效的監管方式呢？還是大家都變乖了？因為你上任以後……"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想我們……"],["陳委員玉珍：還是你們力道鬆懈了？"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員也是法律專家，我們講刑期無刑，政府的公權力不是為了裁罰，如果單只兩年就說怎麼樣，我覺得也是很特別，我想這個完全沒辦法這樣比擬，我上任就講過，其實監理不能鬆，但是發展不能忘。我想……"],["陳委員玉珍：對，這個我也肯定你，事實上，業界也有很多肯定，希望有一些創新的改變。"],["彭主任委員金隆：因為去年有幾個……"],["陳委員玉珍：不過對於應該合法遵守的，很多都應該合法遵守，我舉例，我們有接到具體的檢舉，KY公司有價證券買賣管理是不是準用我國證交法？是嘛！有民眾具體檢舉KY公司明顯違反證交法，向金管會舉發，聽說你們不管？"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒有，我想這已經進入到司法程序……"],["陳委員玉珍：對，進入司法，下一個問題就是，如果已經涉及刑事責任，那當然刑事上檢調單位應該負責，但在你們行政上來講，金管會也不用管了嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒有，我們當然會去研究這個案例，因為這個是在境外的合併案，是境外的合併案……"],["陳委員玉珍：不只一個啦！我這邊手上好幾個檢舉案例。"],["彭主任委員金隆：那當然……"],["陳委員玉珍：我的意思是說，刑事的部分，調查有很多種，管理有很多種，法律上有刑事的、有行政的，刑事的部分我們交給檢調單位去查，但你們裡頭事實上也有檢察官，你們也有相關權力，你們也可以去調查。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。"],["陳委員玉珍：但是到了行政的部分，是不是你們還是應該進行行政上的監管？還是真的你上任以後就開始變成如大家所說的，就開始不管了？"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒有。跟委員報告，該我們管的，我們不是想不想管，我們也跑不掉，該我們管的，我們就是要管，沒有說想不想管的問題，我想這個是應該的。如果不是我們管的話，你不是想管就能管。"],["陳委員玉珍：所以行政上的監管應該還是要存在嘛，對吧？"],["彭主任委員金隆：如果它是屬於我們轄管範圍，我們當然要管。"],["陳委員玉珍：我們手頭上有相當多民間來的檢舉案件，所以我們會一一將資料提供給你們。"],["彭主任委員金隆：可以，歡迎。"],["陳委員玉珍：希望你們要確實監管。"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然，我們依法辦理，一定。"],["陳委員玉珍：一定要依法辦理。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["陳委員玉珍：好，謝謝。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳玉珍召委，謝謝彭主委。"],["主席（陳委員玉珍）：接著請顏寬恒委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-11","speakers":["陳玉珍","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","賴惠員","王鴻薇","李坤城","李彥秀","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","郭國文","洪孟楷","羅明才","葉元之","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":209,"meetingDate":["2024-12-19"],"gazette_id":"1140901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關金融監督管理委員會、銀行局、證券期貨局、\n保險局、檢查局收支部分（僅詢答）；二、審查中華民國 114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預\n算營業部分，有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份有限公司（僅詢答）；三、審查中\n華民國 114 年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分，有關金融監督管理委員會主管：\n（僅詢答）(一)特別收入基金─金融監督管理基金、(二)信託基金─保險業務發展基金","agenda_id":"1140901_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}