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來可以改進的方向，跟他們講要怎麼做未來會更安全，這是模擬的意義啦。"],["張委員啓楷：所以部長要很清楚的表達，最近如果開環評會議的時候，交通部要清楚的表達你們對這個事情的後續還有它危險性的處理方式，對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：是，我們一定會提出來。"],["張委員啓楷：這個非常明確，這是第一個，答案是有的。他們提出兩點很重要的事，剛才說的是有可能會碰撞，另外提出的第二點是四接如果真的做好，等天然氣的船進去之後，會影響到港內的卸貨跟整個繫泊作業，請問他們提出這點之後，你們有沒有去做怎麼樣的改善和如何因應？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，提出來這個之後，其實我們因應的方式就是它未來是在外港，不會進內港，LNG船會在外港，並不會進來裡面。"],["張委員啓楷：雖然它是在外面，但卸貨的時候終究還是必須要進來啦！就是它現在有一個河堤這樣進來。"],["陳部長世凱：它是在靠外面的那個地方，不會進到內港，我們不會讓它進到內港，在外接駁就可以。"],["張委員啓楷：OK！所以是在外港卸貨，這是第一個。第二個是我們在2021年的9月份發生了基隆港碼頭起重機吊臂墜落事件，大家可能還記憶猶新，心有餘悸！那天你們交通部提出了一個提醒，說當天然氣運輸船靠港卸貨的時候，旁邊如果有大型的郵輪或者大型的船經過，就會有海浪的興波作用，這很危險啊！這是專家王國材王前部長講的，這是很危險的事情啊！所以你們提醒會不會重演2021年9月份碼頭起重機整個吊臂墜落的事情，這個叫興波作用，那也只有兩種解決方案喔，第一個是那時候大的船就不要進來，可是這樣就完蛋了。臺灣有那麼多國際的觀光船、郵輪都要停泊在基隆港，可是因為四接，要避免天然氣船出現問題，所以你要減少或者讓國際郵輪不要到基隆港去，那基隆就完蛋了！臺灣的觀光旅遊也會受到非常大的波及，對不對？這是第一個，那會有一個方法，就是你一定要注意到它的安全嘛！你們後續有做了怎麼樣的檢討？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，其實這些都是事先提醒，在環評的時候，我們都會把這些意見提供出來，未來當然就會避免，包含第一、它不可以在尖峰的時間進來，不要影響到我們一般商船的營運；第二、在惡劣的氣候下它也不能夠進來，這個到時候我們也都會做限制。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，這樣談下來，你看為了一個四接，對基隆港的發展、經濟的發展和觀光的衝擊有多大！"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我們現在的提醒為的就是未來不要造成影響……"],["張委員啓楷：所以如果四接不要做在那裡，基隆還有全臺灣的觀光經濟就不會受影響啊！"],["陳部長世凱：它也可以做到沒有負面影響。"],["張委員啓楷：這是一個重要的決策關鍵點喔！所以本席今天一開始就在提，這是一個重要的關鍵點，今天談的是一個基隆港會不會滅港而且還是具有急迫性的問題，因為馬上就要做環評了！部長，你身為交通部部長，你要管觀光啊，對不對？而且這個牽扯到歷史悠久的整個基隆港的經濟發展、臺灣的經濟命脈、觀光的命脈，部長，你要保住喔！"],["陳部長世凱：這個沒有問題。"],["張委員啓楷：不要因為你沒有講話或者是嚴重的失職導致基隆港滅港。"],["陳部長世凱：我們不會讓它有負面的影響啦！負面影響發生之前，我們都會事先提醒並且事先避免。"],["張委員啓楷：今天我提的這三點要怎麼解決、該提醒的，在下次環評委員會開會時交通部一定要去講。"],["陳部長世凱：這個內容我們會提。"],["張委員啓楷：內容一定要講，這是一個。第二個，我更具體的提出三點，第一個，請部長責令港務局針對四接計畫興建期間跟完工以後，港區安全的維護跟保障問題，進行通盤的調查、研究跟規劃。這個一定會做嘛！下軍令狀，一定要做喔！"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["張委員啓楷：第二個是責令港務公司針對四接計畫實施以後，對基隆港的民用、商用、漁民生計──這會衝擊到漁民的生計喔──休閒旅遊還有整個運輸接駁等相關事務進行通盤的研究，而且要提出計畫。"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["張委員啓楷：可以喔！這是第二個軍令狀。第三個是相關報告要限期完成，在完成之前，在相關的問題提出來並解決之前，我們等一下來討論什麼時間點要完成，針對四接計畫的環評等會議，基於保障基隆港的市民安全、生計以及全國運輸安全、環境保護的前提，交通部不能隨便點頭答應，可以做得到嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我們尊重環評的程序和他們的討論。"],["張委員啓楷：不是，在沒有達到你剛剛講的這些之前，交通部不能點頭答應啊！對不對？當然如果解決了你的問題就可以啊！沒有解決的話，就如我剛才說的，基隆港就真的滅港了，對臺灣整個觀光、經濟都會造成衝擊。"],["陳部長世凱：我們會在環評的過程當中要求他們要承諾。"],["張委員啓楷：要求承諾喔？好，那我們來談相關報告你什麼時候可以給我？"],["陳部長世凱：兩個月的時間好不好？"],["張委員啓楷：兩個月？好，謝謝部長。這個事情真的很重要，部長當過發言人，算是能比較跨部會的去看這個事情，不能說國家為了天然氣一定要過、電一定要過，結果沒有注意到安全的問題，特別是對我們全國在經濟跟民生、觀光有那麼大貢獻的基隆港，我們一定要努力，不要因為錯誤的政策，特別是不要因為交通部該講的話沒有去講，環評一下就過了，四接就弄起來了，結果弄到後來基隆港滅港了，好不好？我們一起努力，謝謝。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張委員。","接下來請高金素梅委員、高金素梅、高金素梅委員不在。","有請邱若華委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":78,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-16","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","許智傑","林國成","林俊憲","廖先翔","陳素月","翁曉玲","蔡其昌","何欣純","徐富癸","楊瓊瓔","王義川","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳雪生","羅廷瑋","張啓楷","邱若華","游顥","黃珊珊","葉元之","黃健豪","羅智強"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-18"],"gazette_id":"1141102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1141102_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、交通部觀光署署長及桃園國際機場股份有限公司董事長就「如何提\n升過境及轉機旅客入境台灣觀光品質並增加觀光人數」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查114\n年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光署及所屬單位預算；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案\n附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業基金─觀光發展基金分預算；四、審查114年\n度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於交通部主管中華郵政股份有限公司營業預算【僅\n進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1141102_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}