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中央總預算和平及執行向下 中央總預算之和平與執行中 業務費之一般事業費預算二十分之一6 決議六動決第二幕 中央總預算和平及執行向下 地方政府主計業務之督導與查核預算二十分之一7 決議七動決第三幕 特種基金預算和平及執行預算十分之一8 決議十動決第五幕 綜合統計業務向下 綜合辦理綜合統計之業務費預算五十萬元決議九"},{"start":1899.345,"end":1927.072,"text":"九、決議十二動決第九目國事普查業務向下辦理工業及服務業普查中業務費之委辦費預算十分之一十、決議十三動決第六目國事普查業務向下受僱員工薪資調查及生產力統計之業務費預算十分之一十一、決議十四動決第七目主計訓練業務預算十分之一十二、決議十五動決第八目主計資訊業務向下董計及行政資訊管理中業務費之資訊服務費預算十分之一十三、決議十六"},{"start":1927.792,"end":1949.244,"text":"動決第八目主計資訊業務向下資訊系統維域管理中業務費資資訊服務費預算十分之一十四決議十七動決第八目主計資訊業務向下經費捷報及親資資訊管理中業務費資資訊服務費預算十分之一十五決議十八動決第九目一般建築及設備第三節其他設備向下設備及投資中設備及投資資資訊軟硬體設備費預算十分之一"},{"start":1952.466,"end":1976.565,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議有關行政院主計總署檢送第29款第二預配金決議一、凍結該款預算二十分之一書面報告案。四、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。一、決議一、凍結第二幕中央政府審計向下中央政府審計工作制業務費預算五十萬元。二、決議二、"},{"start":1977.726,"end":2001.131,"text":"動結第二幕,中央政府審計向下,中央政府審計工作中,業務費之資訊服務費預算50萬元。決議三,動結第二幕,中央政府審計向下,中央政府審計工作中,業務費之資訊服務費預算十分之一。決議四,動結第二幕,中央政府審計向下,中央政府審計工作中,業務費之資訊服務費預算50萬元。決議五,動結第二幕,中央政府審計向下,中央政府審計工作預算20萬元。"},{"start":2003.131,"end":2025.921,"text":"決議六 動決第二幕 中央政府審計向下審計訓練預算十分之一 七決議七動決第三幕 縣市地方審計向下縣市地方審計工作之業務費預算十分之一 八決議八動決第四幕 一般建築及設備第二節其他設備向下審計業務電腦化系統更新中設備及投資之資訊軟硬體設備費預算十分之一 九台中市審計處決議一"},{"start":2028.102,"end":2049.591,"text":"動決第二幕審計業務預算二十分之一﹖十﹖臺灣市審計處決議動決第二幕審計業務預算二十分之一﹖十﹖高雄市審計處決議動決第二幕審計業務預算二十分之一﹖書面報告案﹖決定上列27案經以報告完成準以當之提報院會。臺灣事項一、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議有關行政組織總署預算動決書面報告案三案﹖"},{"start":2053.232,"end":2068.662,"text":"一、決議八、凍結第四幕會計及決算業務預算十分之一二、決議九、凍結第五幕綜合統計業務預算十分之一三、決議十一、凍結第二幕國稅普查業務預算十分之一二、審查證券投資信託及顧問法三案"},{"start":2069.102,"end":2088.843,"text":"一、行政院行政審議本院委員郭國文等16人擬具《證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案》等2案。二、本院委員林祖英等17人擬具《證券投資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案》。三、審查本院委員郭國文等16人擬具《不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案》。"},{"start":2090.124,"end":2103.84,"text":"討論四項個案合併詢答經文郭國文、林楚瑜說明提案要旨經常監督管理委員會主任委員黃天牧就行政院提案報告並回應委員法律提案行政院主計總署、主計長朱哲銘提出預算解當報告案後"},{"start":2104.961,"end":2123.165,"text":"繼由委員林德夫等46人提出質詢,均經金融監督管理委員會主任委員黃天牧等予以說明及答覆。決議一、報告說明及詢答完畢。二、委員質詢會及答覆或請補充資訊,請相關部會與州內以書論答覆,委員要求期限者從其鎖定。三、委員嚴關人林楚英所提書論質詢略入記錄刊登公報,並請相關部會以書論答覆。四、"},{"start":2126.846,"end":2154.394,"text":"中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議有關行政組織總署主管預算凍結輸入報告案3案均以審查環境,準以動之提報院會。5.台灣事項二級3案均另折旗繼續審查,通過臨時提案一案。宣讀完畢請各位對議事錄內容有異議?沒有異議?好,異議事錄確定請議事人員宣讀今日議程"},{"start":2155.627,"end":2179.947,"text":"討論事項：一、審查娛樂稅法6案、本院委員徐富癸等17人、委員陳秀寳等18人、委員羅明才等19人、委員王世堅等23人分別擬具、「娛樂稅法第二條及第五條條文修正草案。」等4案。二、本院委員黃潔等19人、委員羅明才等16人分別擬廢紙、「娛樂稅法。」等2案。二、審查保險法4案：一、本院委員羅明才等17人擬具保險法第146條之4條文修正草案。二、"},{"start":2182.449,"end":2207.62,"text":"委員蔡依儀等19人、委員王宏威等16人分別擬具保險法第177條條文修正草案等2案。三、審查人民情願有關娛樂稅法3案與訊息完畢。介紹現場林德福林委員吳秉瑞委員王世堅王委員"},{"start":2210.626,"end":2237.504,"text":"富癸徐委員財政部部長莊退雲法制處代理處長黃慧玲國庫署署長陳柏澄負稅署署長宋秀玲官務署署長彭英偉國有財產署署長曾國基"},{"start":2241.466,"end":2260.184,"text":"財政諮詢中心主任張文熙經管會主委黃天牧銀行局副局長林志吉政企局局長張振山保險局局長施瓊華檢察局局長張子昊"},{"start":2267.557,"end":2278.927,"text":"行政院主計總處公務預算處吳明修專門委員教育部體育署周德倫專門委員文化部藝術發展司李潔明專門委員經濟部商業發展署副組長莊文林"},{"start":2295.796,"end":2323.076,"text":"勞動部副司長黃琦雅法務部參事林豐文另外各縣市有臺北市財政局副局長黃毅廷另外新北、桃園、台中、彰化、雲林、嘉義等等請大家參佐"},{"start":2328.121,"end":2350.107,"text":"現在請王世堅委員說明提案要旨請稍後我們念一下今日議程的安排內容再請王世堅、王委員來說明提案要旨來請宣讀"},{"start":2361.705,"end":2378.5,"text":"審查一、委員徐富癸等17人、委員陳秀寳等18人、委員羅明才等19人及委員王世堅等23人分別擬具、「娛樂稅法第二條及第五條條文修正草案"},{"start":2379.241,"end":2406.832,"text":"二、委員黃潔等19人及委員羅明才等16人分別擬會址與樂稅法。三、委員羅明才等17人擬具保險法第146條之4條文修正草案。四、委員蔡易宇等19人及委員王宏威等16人分別擬具保險法第171條條文修正草案。"},{"start":2407.833,"end":2413.65,"text":"五處理人民情願案三案現在請王世堅、王偉"},{"start":2430.836,"end":2447.767,"text":"主席、各位立委同仁、我們財政部長、金管會主委、在場的所有官員們。早期課徵娛樂稅,其實我用四個字來形容就是欲禁於徵啦。"},{"start":2449.056,"end":2472.7,"text":"那麼當時因為高消費的娛樂所以要來課稅把它列為奢侈稅的一種但是數十年下來時代進步啦時移境遷現在娛樂稅要課徵的幾個項目早已經不是高消費比方說看電影啦"},{"start":2474.039,"end":2485.368,"text":"看歌唱表演、臨場交響樂團的演出等等這都已經不是高消費了那麼目前文創產業它成長"},{"start":2489.915,"end":2517.993,"text":"占的營業額已經達到我們GDP的總額4.8%而從業的文創產業的人口數也達到2.4%那自從文策院成立以後我們國家也大金額的來扶植文創產業比方說在電影、在戲劇"},{"start":2519.602,"end":2531.372,"text":"的拍攝、在樂團演出、戲劇團體的補助等等。我光是舉2021年光補助的金額就達到9.8億。這個金額是2021年成長了70%左右。"},{"start":2542.338,"end":2564.406,"text":"那如果說我們政府政策我們不斷的鼓勵推動文創然後又要對文創的成果這樣子的消費要來課娛樂稅那這不是互相矛盾嗎一方面鼓勵一方面又要課稅所以我查了一下財政部過去反對"},{"start":2565.986,"end":2588.917,"text":"廢止娛樂稅他說啊財政部的意思說難有替代財源那我看了這幾年我們娛樂稅大概一年16到18億啦而且民國96年當年修改娛樂稅法的時候已經有下了附帶決議就是說一年後一年內啦就應該把娛樂稅廢除好啦"},{"start":2593.876,"end":2599.082,"text":"難有替代裁員找了17年還找不到替代裁員嗎?"},{"start":2600.905,"end":2628.037,"text":"才16億到18億之多找了17年而且這16億至18億的金額對我們整體稅收而言根本為乎其為所以我覺得財政部如果繼續拖延的話那就是四個字以拖待變那麼這一次我的提案裡面也把高爾夫納入因為我認為高爾夫現在早就普及算是全民運動啦"},{"start":2629.318,"end":2651.696,"text":"那麼財政部的理由過去的理由說有耗費環境資源之意確實高雄福球場會耗費環境資源但是我們應該用另外的綠色稅制來課他才對嘛應該把娛樂稅取消我們應該研擬比方說對高雄福球場課能源稅啦"},{"start":2652.797,"end":2652.838,"text":"若果﹖"},{"start":2664.554,"end":2683.978,"text":"在一年多到民國115年1月1日如果財政部還沒有研擬新的稅制作為替代財源的話那麼就應該停止徵收娛樂稅我認為加了這樣的附帶條款這個落日條款"},{"start":2684.958,"end":2705.782,"text":"讓財政部有一個時間上的壓力否則就像先前已經找了替代財源找了17年竟然一點點16到18億竟然都找不到我覺得這樣子是非常離譜的所以今天我做出了這個提案向各位委員同仁做說明謝謝謝謝王委員"},{"start":2711.909,"end":2714.914,"text":"接著請徐富癸徐委員"},{"start":2726.239,"end":2751.409,"text":"謝謝主席我想本席這次也針對我們娛樂稅法提出一個立法的一個修正因為過去我們在課徵所謂的娛樂稅有一個時空的一個背景當時因為我們的財政困窘甚至就是為了提倡所謂一個簡約的生活模式所以我們財政部訂定了所謂的一個驗息稅啦相關的一些娛樂稅作為一個地方稅收的一個收入"},{"start":2751.949,"end":2761.056,"text":"但是隨著時代的演變我想我們娛樂稅也經過多次的修法那過去立法院也取消了宴席稅那也將撞球場、保齡球館這些稅從我們的課稅的課題中課除"},{"start":2767.841,"end":2788.321,"text":"時間經過了20年,那我們也認為承容剛剛我們王世堅委員提的有一些課稅的項目我們也認為不盡合理,尤其是目前我們像我們一直在地方政府一直扶植所謂的一個體育競技甚至一些藝文活動的表演,那我想這些產業把他們放在一個課稅的標的裡面"},{"start":2790.223,"end":2813.571,"text":"甚至要求要提出一些免稅的證明我想對所謂的一個中央也好或是地方政府也好形成很大的一個壓力那比如說像我們屏東縣在推廣觀光我們有許多的民宿但是我們現在有些民宿業者為了招攬客人他們有設置一個卡拉OK的設備那這些設備也成了我們娛樂稅、課稅的一個標的"},{"start":2816.112,"end":2832.328,"text":"我們認為不盡合理那尤其最近這幾年我們疫情復甦之後許多的縣市政府都在舉辦所謂的演唱會或是音樂會那這樣子的一個舉辦的活動根據本期的調查光是"},{"start":2832.788,"end":2832.988,"text":"議員王世堅"},{"start":2854.842,"end":2855.443,"text":" ﹝財政財政財政法案﹞"},{"start":2871.94,"end":2873.221,"text":"﹚立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":2894.096,"end":2894.616,"text":"謝謝來我們接下來請羅昭偉、羅明才、羅昭偉"},{"start":2927.368,"end":2949.884,"text":"謝謝主席在座各位出列席的官員大家早安大家好那麼有關廢除娛樂稅在財委會已經討論了好幾次大概朝野沒有人反對如果說有的話只是內容稍作"},{"start":2952.869,"end":2965.606,"text":"那原則上、精神上還是要廢除不合時宜的娛樂稅大家都知道民國31年4月24日那時候的名稱叫做《宴席級娛樂稅法》"},{"start":2969.28,"end":2985.334,"text":"與時俱進,時代在改變。大家想想看,辦桌還有課稅來限制人民的集會、吃飯、歡樂的這個氣氛這是非常不合時宜的。所以我們希望說這個廢除娛樂稅的部分"},{"start":2987.284,"end":3004.636,"text":"多多來照顧年輕人、文創工作者以及列入奧運項目的高爾夫球運動有多少的選手在下場練習的時候有多少的運動民眾"},{"start":3006.468,"end":3026.699,"text":"去運動的時候,我的天啊,原來去打高爾夫球的時候還被課稅,我們鼓勵都來不及了還有一個就是現在啊,那個工商社會,很多年輕人跟家人跟小朋友相聚的時間啊其實也不多,他們就是去遊樂場"},{"start":3029.691,"end":3052.943,"text":"爸爸媽媽帶小朋友去遊樂區、遊樂園區去欣賞、去觀看結果還要被課稅所以這個是不合時宜的那財政部主管機關總是覺得說哎呀這個他的替代財源16到18億每年的稅收超徵這幾年都超過3700億超過5000多億這個算起來是"},{"start":3058.936,"end":3075.272,"text":"一點點而已啊九牛一毛所以請財政部啊能從善如流多多來支持娛樂稅的修正、修改或者是廢除另外有關保險法146條修改的問題喔怎麼講都對啦"},{"start":3079.505,"end":3106.886,"text":"如果從業者保護的權益來看哇 這個好不容易每年可以獲得那麼多的資金那麼多的保障那當然要支持啊可是本席從台灣年輕人未來發展來思考的時候想想看如果把6兆的資金可以留在台灣投資台灣"},{"start":3108.564,"end":3114.913,"text":"未來的台灣年輕人會做怎麼樣一個環境的影響具體的改變。"},{"start":3116.55,"end":3142.95,"text":"所以本席也在這裡奉勸少部分的人不要每次都是思考現實的利益為什麼不想想把這個資金匯回台灣以後循序漸進的來做來多多做一點有利台灣發展的公共建設每次都講說台灣沒有投資機會真的沒有嗎?"},{"start":3144.147,"end":3173.502,"text":"如果沒有的話台積電就不會有75%以上都是外資在投資時過境遷啊想想看如果10年前146條就修正的時候台積電那時候才兩三百塊保險公司不能買嗎買了反而賺大錢我不是說主管機關講的一定不對但是本席上過很多次的當"},{"start":3175.148,"end":3204.58,"text":"在幾年前我問中央銀行總裁楊金榮楊總裁我說全世界都在重視比特幣央行要不要多少投資一點央行給大家的答覆說那是高風險千萬不要上當千萬不要去買結果那時候很多年輕人他說央行總裁說不能買通通沒有買那時候一個比特幣是大概6000塊美金現在漲到美金6萬以上"},{"start":3206.155,"end":3230.407,"text":"不是誰講的一定對啦大家多多思考看看希望146條的精神還是要把錢留在台灣投資台灣照顧年輕人讓年輕人長期以來的薪資不斷低薪資的情況可以獲得改善謝謝謝謝羅昭偉來繼續來請黃宏威黃委員"},{"start":3237.366,"end":3237.566,"text":"主席"},{"start":3246.633,"end":3259.824,"text":"好 謝謝那個招集人主席以及我們現場包含我們各位官員還有我們各位委員那今天我主要是提出保險法第177條的條文修正案這個主要呢是要保障我們保險從業人員他們的權益那麼長期以來其實大家也知道"},{"start":3272.435,"end":3293.101,"text":"在保險從業人員他們的職場環境事實上他們是處於一個極為弱勢的那麼這幾十年來我們的保險業的從業人員他們事實上很多都是假承攬真僱傭的一個"},{"start":3294.417,"end":3297.861,"text":"﹚立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會"},{"start":3312.339,"end":3335.256,"text":"那麼我們的工會事實上也一直希望在立法院能夠為他們的權益做一些修正。那事實上早在這一屆的立法院之前,包含跨黨派的立法委員都提出相同的修正案。但是非常可惜的,"},{"start":3335.856,"end":3343.12,"text":"因為金管會一直都拒絕一直態度消極而沒有辦法完成修法我們希望能夠透過我們金融機構的主管機關跟勞動部共同的努力下可以讓我們廣大的保險業務員"},{"start":3357.449,"end":3379.042,"text":"他們的一個就業的環境不要因此而被剝削不要因此而得到不公平的待遇所以在這一次我們也可以看到其實除了我之外我也看到是跨黨派的委員也都提出相關的修法"},{"start":3379.702,"end":3404.019,"text":"所以在這邊還是希望我們的金管會能夠從善如流而不是還是用過去的方式用一個拒絕不配合的一個態度我看到這次又是用這樣的方式如果金管會認為他只是主管保險公司跟消費者之間的關係但是"},{"start":3406.36,"end":3422.175,"text":"保險業務員的管理規則也是你金管會在定的啊所以金管會身為主管機關不要把這些保險業務員他們應該得到合理的待遇"},{"start":3422.756,"end":3423.297,"text":"委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":3440.734,"end":3461.048,"text":"我衷心希望在我們這次委員會能夠讓保險法第177條的條文修正能夠過去都未盡其功我希望這次我們能夠成功的來幫我們的廣大的保險業務員去爭取到他們合理的權益以上謝謝好謝謝王宏威王委員"},{"start":3467.296,"end":3473.995,"text":"接著請財政部莊部長回應委員提案的內容請先短即刻"},{"start":3480.39,"end":3498.167,"text":"主席各位委員先進大家好今天貴委員會審查大院各委員所擬具的娛樂稅法第二條跟第五條的修正條文草案以及廢止娛樂稅法等6案緊究委員的提案我們做一個簡要的說明敬請指教第一個有關"},{"start":3499.588,"end":3503.75,"text":"娛樂稅法的第二條跟第五條是規範娛樂稅的課稅項目還有它的稅率現在的娛樂稅的課稅項目包括了電影、歌唱、說書、舞蹈等等以及夜總會各種表演還有競技比賽還有高爾夫球場等其他提供娛樂設施供能娛樂者那麼委員提案刪除部分的課稅項目它的稅率如我們在我們的書面報告裡面所提的所羅列的第二個"},{"start":3528.062,"end":3533.246,"text":"對於黃委員19人及我們羅明才委員16人有提案廢止娛樂稅那我們這邊將做一個說明娛樂稅是地方政府重要的財源還不宜廢止而且部分的課稅項目可以檢討我們會通盤的審慎研議因為根據財政收支劃分法第12條的規定娛樂稅是屬於直轄市及縣市稅"},{"start":3551.38,"end":3556.785,"text":"現應該已在鄉鎮市收起的收入全部要給鄉鎮市來支援這個地方各項建設及公共服務以112年為例的話娛樂稅全年的稅收大約是新台幣18.9億元其中"},{"start":3567.935,"end":3574.459,"text":"高爾夫球場稅收約4.2億元、藝文活動及各項競技比賽稅收約2.5億元其他提供娛樂設施供人、娛樂者稅收約2億元是鄉鎮市主要的財源之一本部就娛樂稅稅制的檢討也在去年8月邀集了地方政府及相關部會開會、研商相關的結論如下第一個,娛樂稅是鄉鎮市的重要財源"},{"start":3597.974,"end":3611.934,"text":"是為了避免影響地方的建設還有發展還是不宜廢止的。第二個考量稅收金額微小激增成本的效益還有經濟社會改變的因素現行部分的課稅項目及法定稅率的上限可以檢討以及調降。"},{"start":3614.366,"end":3641.074,"text":"第三個可以考量授權地方政府看是他們的經濟發展需要特定政策的目的還有可以停徵部分娛樂稅的課稅項目來兼顧租稅公平以及地方的財政中上娛樂稅是地方的重要財源而且經洽行政院主計總處經濟部教育部以及文化部都表示沒有適合的彌補財源的方式那麼為了保留地方自籌財源還有財政自主的空間"},{"start":3644.235,"end":3664.487,"text":"避免影響到地方建設發展我們宜尊重地方政府的意見至於娛樂稅稅制的修正本部將會參與上述的會議結論根據的收集意見、審慎的研議來兼顧租稅公平以及地方財政以上說明敬請各位委員指教謝謝好 謝謝接著請金管會黃天墨黃主委回應委員提案內容"},{"start":3681.952,"end":3709.128,"text":"主席、各位委員先進。大家好。今天陳貴委員會邀請就大院委員羅明才等17人擬具《保險法》第146條及第4條文修正草案案台灣民眾黨黨團委員蔡易宇等19人、委員王洪輝等16人分別擬具《保險法》第177條條文修正草案的4案報告。僅提供本會意見如上。"},{"start":3711.021,"end":3727.812,"text":"有關委員羅明才等17人擬具了《保險法》146-4條文修正草案一事。我想保險資金提高的國外投資提高的原因有之一,主要是因為保險資金來自於保護的保費。"},{"start":3729.673,"end":3754.193,"text":"但是因為保險契約通常是長年期契約所以為了要履行對保護保險契約責任的承諾基本上它的資產配置就是資金的運用的標底必須是以投資長期而且固定收益的商品來符合資產負債存續期間匹配的原則那麼資金運用的成果也是直接維護了保護權益跟保險業的清償能力"},{"start":3755.589,"end":3756.75,"text":"﹚立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第11屆第2會期財政委員會第3會期財政委員會"},{"start":3779.326,"end":3781.849,"text":"徐富癸等19人、委員羅明才等19人、委員王世堅等23人、委員王世堅等23人分別提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":3800.919,"end":3822.228,"text":"那涉嫌資金目前投資國外大概有22.15兆,佔整個資金額69.37那扣除依保險法規定不進入國外投資的總額的外幣保單、國境版債券、保險相關事業、其他金主管機關核整的項目實際進入保險業的比例大概41.2"},{"start":3825.151,"end":3838.084,"text":"依照保險法規定加計國際版債券金額佔資金的總額是57025,所以是低於國外投資加國際版債券的上限。那投資的標題大概也是那種長天期的固定收益的債券"},{"start":3840.078,"end":3863.982,"text":"那就是反映整個受險業資金面需要跟負債匹配的這個特色那因為國內並沒有這麼樣大一個又廣又深的固定收益的市場所以必須要尋求在國外來做投資因為我們一向都是以能夠兼顧風險的情況之下能夠來適應保險業對國外投資的需求"},{"start":3866.072,"end":3875.496,"text":"那保險業國外投資的額度基本上第4頁大概都是過去從5到20到35到106年到96年我們修正144從35提高到45 訂立了國外投資管理辦法"},{"start":3884.81,"end":3897.757,"text":"但是這個雖然提到到45目前大概只有3、4家能符合45的比例而且整個的整個的審核必須經過內控內基跟投資風險等等的要求"},{"start":3900.049,"end":3921.089,"text":"另外我們也增訂了雖然是國外投資但不計入國外投資額度的項目這裡面包括外幣商品因為外幣商品本來就是以外幣計價所以這部分沒有計入第二就是當時在103、104為了配合國際版債券跟國外保險事業的相關的發展也不予計入"},{"start":3922.423,"end":3936.994,"text":"但是我們對於國際版債券的集中度和流動性風險都有設定一個上限就是保險資金的65.25另外我們先行對保險業國外投資採取差異化的管理就是如果是要提高到45的話"},{"start":3939.636,"end":3959.024,"text":"都要有相關的沒有重大處分、資本稅足率達250、信憑達AA-plus等級以及內控及封控跟量化等條件目前那只有4家受限公司符合這個規定那本會督促保險因落實國外投資風險控管的措施"},{"start":3962.697,"end":3975.547,"text":"也包括我們已就保險業從事國外相關的這些投資標題明定投資的項目、限額、投資資格條件、性平分款措施所以相對已經是相當的完備"},{"start":3977.23,"end":3996.141,"text":"另外至於說保險資金在其他方面運用目前已經可以透過有價證券、不動產跟專業運用投資國內的公共建設、五家二產業本會也會持續一方面導引資金投入國內的公共建設這裡面在第8頁簡單的報告"},{"start":3998.089,"end":4024.504,"text":"我們在105年、110年分別兩度修正保險法開放保險業可以投資公共社會社會福利事業的比例提高到三分之二讓保險業有控制權以提高保險業投資意願。111年1月發布了相關令是開放保險資金可以直接投資間接投過私募股權基金或參貸放款等投融資與六大核心戰略產業。111年6月24號也發布了相關的方案"},{"start":4028.595,"end":4039.102,"text":"在112年7月、去年7月25號發布了接軌第一代清償能力制度的過渡性措施也同意在15年過渡期間中前面115到119年5年間維持現行1.28的風險係數"},{"start":4047.25,"end":4074.342,"text":"第9月在112年12月又考慮國內外基礎建設風險釋出橫屏性也調降了保險業投資國內私募股權基金及創投事業的資本支出率。那截至112年抵止整個保險業資金運用在專案運用、公共建設等總共是5900億元。那如果說是要調降國外投資額度可能不利於保險市場資產負債的配置那"},{"start":4075.7,"end":4101.409,"text":"目前來講113年2月國內債券市場規模大概在10.9兆元如果修正國外投資上限到25的話可能會讓這個國外投資總線減少大概29大概9兆9.26兆元移回國內那麼國內的債券市場這種長天期跟固定收益的商品其實顯然無法吸納前開9.26兆的資金"},{"start":4103.65,"end":4130.077,"text":"如此不利保險資產負債的配置跟保護權益的維護同時也可能因為大量資金匯回國內後沒有足夠的標底可供投資而造成匯率等不利的影響所以以上報告就是保險院國外投資其實有它特別的背景已經採取了封管措施所以我們希望能夠建議維持現行保險法146之4的條文不予修正"},{"start":4131.417,"end":4150.248,"text":"至於保險法177條條文修正草案因為保險法有兩部分組成一是契約法一個是保險業法那基本上立法一直是要維護保險契約的權利義務關係跟保險業的監理措施來維護保護的權益跟市場的紀律所以保險業保險法"},{"start":4153.826,"end":4156.468,"text":"委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":4174.722,"end":4191.907,"text":"所以我們保險法177條授權主管機關定定業務委員管理規則的立法背景也是基於前開的目的所述那例司法院在4-1-740號解釋也對這樣一個意旨就是相關的主管這個保險契約是依照民法及相關法律規定辦理"},{"start":4193.877,"end":4208.514,"text":"並沒有限制他勞務契約的屬性與契約內容,尤其在《序字740解釋理由書》第三段已經讚明了這基於司法制度的原則有契約形式及內容的選擇自由,其類型可能為僱傭、委任、承攬、居冤等。"},{"start":4210.526,"end":4233.659,"text":"所以基本上基於民法跟相關法令的範圍之內所以保險業務員的勞務契約是基本上基於締約意思決定來依照締約對象跟契約內容行訴雙方的權利義務關係所以這部分當依勞務契約的性質是用民法跟相關法令屬於勞動契約者的話應該優先適用勞基法跟勞動部有關勞動契約規定及針對保險業勞動關係的相關函式辦理"},{"start":4239.997,"end":4260.935,"text":"所以我們不認為保險177條要去做適度的修正。以上報告,謝謝。好,謝謝黃主委。開始詢答,沒有委員8加2,列席委員5分鐘,接著上午10點截止發言登記。"},{"start":4263.666,"end":4276.589,"text":"本次會議委員若有相關修正動議請禁送財政委員會議事人員收件以利後續審查程序。現在請林德福林委員質詢。謝謝,謝謝趙偉。"},{"start":4293.706,"end":4295.456,"text":"是不是請財政部莊部長請莊部長"},{"start":4302.119,"end":4330.749,"text":"委員好莊部長你好我想因為最近我看那個媒體新聞一直在披露就是有利民的網友在爆料公社上貼出說這個質疑準副總統蕭美琴透過外交部要求關路署免於這個屍酒的查驗那外交部財政部都協助辦理那外交部有做說明外交部有做說明駐外人員"},{"start":4332.034,"end":4358.756,"text":"任滿回國以後攜帶自用物品相關事宜均是依財政部的規定來辦理。財政部也回應說蕭美琴諷調回國申請要自用酒品的通關是經過審核符合規定申報進口除了一公升以外的免稅額外其他都是均因依法來課稅。"},{"start":4360.157,"end":4372.467,"text":"那個部長你正式的回應讓媒體知道因為齁你也秉促外界啊到底有沒有課稅除了一公升以外有沒有課稅我相信應該要說清楚講明白"},{"start":4374.687,"end":4390.194,"text":"謝謝委員這個酒進來輸入進來它超過一公升都要課稅不管是關稅、菸酒稅以及營業稅都要課稅那至於政府派駐到國外的人員比如說像蕭大使他"},{"start":4391.294,"end":4391.434,"text":"外交部行文給"},{"start":4409.504,"end":4433.466,"text":"財政部告訴他說這個蕭大使調回國內他自用的物品進入那其中有9的部分呢希望依相關規定辦理那依照相關規定辦理因為他是屬於自用那他可以雖然超過5公升他可以就那麼超過5公升但他就可以又是自用所以他就可以不需要超過5公升可以自用是不是第一個不是他是自用第一個前提是自用"},{"start":4433.806,"end":4438.173,"text":"五公升以內是可以不要申請進口業者許可執照是一般來說但是外交人員的話因為他是自用攜帶回國那所以他就可以不要申請那個進口酒類的一個"},{"start":4449.07,"end":4449.39,"text":"那有沒有交相關規定?那金融官有回應說"},{"start":4474.552,"end":4502.387,"text":"他這個查證以後並沒有來做一些申報目前因為就基隆觀來說目前還沒有通關的一個禁報運進口這樣的一個通關資料但是因為外交部是先行文給財政部告訴說有這個情形那也跟委員報告所有駐外人員都是循這個程序那光是112年就有55位外交人員回國的也都以程序來辦理所以並沒有任何的不同"},{"start":4502.887,"end":4526.864,"text":"其實我是認為 身為一個政府官員你更應該要依法行政 不管怎麼樣沒有特權的 我認為說該怎麼做就怎麼做是 這個部分也沒有任何特權 也都是依照相關規定來審核辦理我也希望如此 是的好 那我來請那個主委 那個黃主委請回 請黃主委"},{"start":4537.028,"end":4539.39,"text":"委員長應該還是國際情勢是主要因素之一是"},{"start":4564.648,"end":4571.733,"text":"這是受到國際影響?因為財政部次長阮清華表示台積電、ADR"},{"start":4574.206,"end":4577.068,"text":"委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":4603.621,"end":4614.598,"text":"多重利空導致整個台股震盪往後是不是要推出救市的措施要看今晚會的看法您的看法勒"},{"start":4615.492,"end":4620.737,"text":"五二零新就任總統就職前,你認為台股有必要推出新的穩定股市措施嗎?有沒有必要?"},{"start":4641.203,"end":4658.075,"text":"我個人覺得以今天的股票的整個的趨勢我覺得再觀察吧因為其實現在已經兩萬點以上的行情了我想我們還不需要就是已經飆到很高了不是我覺得還不需要"},{"start":4659.437,"end":4671.69,"text":"這個時候就談什麼穩定措施那今晚會對台股大盤是不是要推出救市的措施要不要做一些防範是不是國安基金絕對到底要不要進場到時候"},{"start":4675.104,"end":4696.752,"text":"您的看法呢?我跟委員報告其實臺股在過去尤其大概在前年吧其實整個疫情的影響是有一些大波動的這個調整那那個時候當然我們有採取一些措施了但每次的情況不一樣我個人覺得我們一定都會有一些固定的維護穩定市場的措施在"},{"start":4697.392,"end":4706.46,"text":"但是什麼時候用、怎麼用、用的強度可能每次情況都不一樣,但現階段我不覺得要考慮到這些問題。"},{"start":4718.186,"end":4740.917,"text":"副長因為上個月初你在財委會啊被刑的時候表示景氣啊跟出口的表現息息相關那台灣的出口已經連續三個月是正成長顯示景氣已經從谷底回升而且平穩而且溫和的復甦那現在第一季已經過去了現在進入第二季上個禮拜"},{"start":4741.937,"end":4748.194,"text":"台股大跌那本席認為說台積電、華碩會對這個台股後市的發展恐怕有一些"},{"start":4749.215,"end":4774.345,"text":"也有些重大的影響那台積電總裁魏哲嘉對整體半導體市場的看法將邁入和緩的護書並且下修2024年這個全年全球半導體市場不含記憶體的展望也就是說景氣預測反應下修全球晶圓代工"},{"start":4775.418,"end":4781.181,"text":"產業的成長預測並且不記錄記憶體的半導體業的這些產值也從成長超過10%限縮到只剩10%那我請問部長,台積電對今年未來景氣是不是不看好?您的看法勒?"},{"start":4800.727,"end":4829.296,"text":"各位委員報告您剛剛所提到就是台積電它是因為智慧手機個人電腦還有車用市場的復甦不如預期所以它把今年的全球半導體市場就是不含記憶體這個部分的成長率由原來預估超過10%的部分降為10%但是縱使如此它仍然是兩位數的一個成長的一個情形那也比去年的一個衰減的趨勢來得好那以我們第一季的一個出口總值來看的話"},{"start":4830.436,"end":4837.82,"text":"是超過了一千億美元那這個也是歷年統計的新高而且年增達到12.9%所以整體來看我們的資通還有視聽產品的外銷仍然維持非常的一個強制所以說部長你認為台積電他們的看法對景氣的看法是過於保守是不是我不是這樣說我只是說從全面性的來看以我們的出口情況而且AI的一個需求仍然是非常強勁的"},{"start":4859.25,"end":4872.29,"text":"所以這個部分我們整體的來看我們的出口仍然是正向成長的部長因為準總統賴清德曾表示半導體是當前許多行業的基礎占台灣GDP的13.1%"},{"start":4874.733,"end":4894.374,"text":"那產值是全球的第二那未來不僅要維繫優勢更要強化外溢的效應讓半導體整個產業成為台灣用來敲動全球的一個關鍵支點那現在這個支點的領頭羊台積電對今年第二季以後的景氣預測"},{"start":4896.717,"end":4905.936,"text":"並不是說非常的看好那我請問部長按照台積電對今年未來半導體景氣看好的保守甚至於不看好的太陽啊"},{"start":4906.857,"end":4926.627,"text":"你認為這個準總統賴清德期待外遇效應會不會有連帶的負面的一些影響會不會跟委員報告台積電他對全球半導體市場的成長他是從超過10%而調整降為10%那事實上也是還有兩位數字的一個成長"},{"start":4927.327,"end":4951.023,"text":"所以說你認為應該不會是嗎?我們的出口其實還是蠻不錯而且我們在AI以及知通識聽產品的外銷依然強勁而且是我們的優勢是這樣喔?部長本席一直認為說台積電法收賄後帶給國內今年景氣互輸的期待恐怕有可能會門上一層的陰影雖然主計長說根據主計總署的經濟模型"},{"start":4954.665,"end":4955.526,"text":"議員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":4974.443,"end":4980.67,"text":"台積電營收產值相當於臺灣的GDP的7.94%超過整體半導體的產業一半請問部長這次台積電華碩會後對於前年GDP的預測你認為有沒有可能下修到3%以下"},{"start":4994.724,"end":4994.844,"text":"所以說你還是很樂觀謝謝"},{"start":5028.908,"end":5031.089,"text":"接著請吳秉瑞吳委員質詢主席麻煩請財政部莊部長請莊部長委員好部長好今天各個委員還有黨團提出這個娛樂稅法"},{"start":5053.732,"end":5078.744,"text":"那這個娛樂稅法它的基增單位因為它是地方稅嘛所以基增單位應該是各地的稅捐基增處而不是國稅局吧那如果這樣的話就是因為法令是我們中央制定所以才會來談這個問題可是這個有一個觀念喔這個中央政府跟地方政府是夥伴關係其實地方政府也有立法機關啊就是他們的議會啊"},{"start":5079.997,"end":5095.251,"text":"那你何不考量乾脆就在這裡把稅務基金法規定每一個地方政府縣市層級他們可以自行來決定當然你那個稅務的部分"},{"start":5096.65,"end":5097.09,"text":"我舉一個例子"},{"start":5112.813,"end":5139.251,"text":"有幾個縣市是沒有高爾夫球場的嘛那你又談高爾夫球場的這個是不是要排除在娛樂稅的範圍內那沒有高爾夫球場那不干他的事啊那有高爾夫球場很多的像我們新北市可能就不見得會贊成或許他有他自己的考量也不一定不過竟然中央政府跟地方政府是夥伴關係那地方政府因地制宜他有他適當的考量這應該是一個合理的規劃啊你覺得呢"},{"start":5140.549,"end":5147.555,"text":"是,委員說得很實這個娛樂稅是屬於地方稅那麼我們娛樂稅法裡面有規定的一個像第二條有相關的課稅項目然後第五條裡面有稅率的上限那我們也知道隨著經濟社會經濟的發展跟娛樂活動的一些多元化那我們當然也要考慮那所以這個部分財政部也邀請地方政府來開會那大致一的他們的意見是"},{"start":5167.273,"end":5168.253,"text":"問題是可以調整,你調整考慮了17年你連沒調整啊"},{"start":5193.838,"end":5217.334,"text":"另外,我們這次也考慮到是不是可以賦予地方政府一個權,也就是說他們因為他自己的政策目的或他們的一個經濟的發展,他可以對某一些的項目做聽證。我想這個部分大概有三個方向是這樣子,但是還沒有到完全一致,因為項目跟稅率的部分因為也都還沒有地方政府還沒有一個"},{"start":5218.015,"end":5229.651,"text":"更高的共識所以我們這個部分我們會跟繼續跟他們討論我的意思是說連項目跟最高稅率都可以讓他們自己去考慮我跟你講你總共才18億啊"},{"start":5230.885,"end":5247.782,"text":"如果依照現在那台灣現在的政府光六都絕對占大多數其他的縣市都是只有很小很小的比例有的縣市可能百萬甚至整個縣也才千萬所以你現在又因為大家的意見不一致"},{"start":5248.903,"end":5270.191,"text":"你檢討稅務跟項目你乾脆連那個稅率都下放嘛因為這個金額這麼的對中央政府來講小對地方政府來講可能他們有他們的考量那你何不就以夥伴關係來講我們只要中央說有一個娛樂稅你可以訂定那由地方自己來訂定"},{"start":5271.761,"end":5300.301,"text":"如果今天有一個地方政府我可以說現在這個地方政府的所長都是民選的啦你說他把那個稅務就是你的稅金增加很多不可能啦你要把那個稅率拉得很高事實上也不可能啦沒有人要跟自己開玩笑啦誰要跟自己的選票對抗啊所以你不用替他擔心這一些啦我是覺得這一件事情與其每一屆立法院我在這邊財政委員會已經第四屆了每一屆都吵這個事情"},{"start":5301.291,"end":5318.21,"text":"那我覺得我們真的不需要管那麼多啊你就乾脆讓地方政府去決定嘛地方政府也有立法機關啊他們可以立地方的單行法規啊我們只要說依照現在的規定地方政府可以訂定娛樂稅自己的稅者自己去管理嘛"},{"start":5319.025,"end":5347.95,"text":"那徵稅的機關也是稅金計政處也不是你國稅局也不是你管的啊所以你現在唯一的就是因為你只有管這個法律啊法令啊那法令你看啊你管法令這麼多的委員每一年新來的委員都不知道以前我們都談過欸這每一屆都談過啊我跟羅明才大概知道每一屆都有談啊結果每一屆都一直一直來一直來我覺得這不是辦法所以我建議你考慮看看啊好是委員的建議我們一定那裡"},{"start":5348.51,"end":5351.452,"text":"黃主委,第一個議題就是關於對外國投資的比例的限制其實這些保險公司如果為公司的利益計算,他都是以獲利"},{"start":5372.611,"end":5397.819,"text":"最大的原則嘛因為他的獲利就是全體保護的保障嘛他賺越多錢全體的保護越有保障對不對話說回來不得不的困難就是在台灣的債券市場台灣的投資市場在早年的時候已經到現在的演變使得我們那個龐大的資金台灣的資本投資市場無以消沒有辦法"},{"start":5399.087,"end":5426.084,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":5426.184,"end":5455.055,"text":"那有沒有可能除了政府的公債之外我說的長天期債券也不一定是只有政府公債嘛這個非常優質、非常好的公司發行的長天期債券也是有啊,外國也是有啊那為什麼我們台灣這部分不奉行呢?是我們債券的發行的部分這個正期舉行那邊控管得太嚴嗎?其實台灣跟美國來講很大的差別美國是以這個直接金融為主台灣大概就通常用銀行貸款就解決公司的資金需求"},{"start":5455.895,"end":5472.688,"text":"當然有一點當然跟財政部有關係但是我們並沒有多少提因為財政部對於公債有一個比例而且東航是以財政目的去發可是不同的政府有的時候不是以財政目的發他就是不斷的在發那這也是一種方式但是台灣我們尊重財政部他有他的政策了"},{"start":5473.368,"end":5491.015,"text":"我知道啊,因為台灣就是希望穩定,CPI不要高,所以通貨不能高。像美國那樣的國家,他動不動CPI有時候有好幾趴,所以他發行的債券長天期來講,長天期發行如果他遇到幾次的通膨,他發行的債券對他來講現在很有利啊,因為通膨會把那個獲利吃掉嘛。"},{"start":5493.456,"end":5515.833,"text":"因為台灣就是中央銀行也好政府也好很努力在控制物價所以我們的CPI通常都是控制在2左右也不希望借款太多對所以我們的債券市場就變得很波波可是你要知道喔回過頭來講有利就有弊喔你在外國的投資你這個避險的成本就變得很高啊像去年的這個授選的部分光避險成本一年就花掉台灣3700億元欸"},{"start":5517.814,"end":5517.834,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":5548.014,"end":5548.315,"text":"第2個問題就是關於177條"},{"start":5570.046,"end":5591.257,"text":"因為過去界定說這部分到底他是僱傭還是這個委員還是這個陳蘭甚至是居堅在大法官會議的解釋裡面講說這四種都有可能他都有不同的型態那如果全部都把他強制變成說這就是僱傭會有什麼樣的缺點"},{"start":5592.945,"end":5616.591,"text":"當然對業者來講他可能僱傭他的要求對業務員來講他的彈性可能會變得比較少那當然這裡面成本上可能僱傭有必須也許對一些業務員本身的福利啊保險可能有一些要求這也是簽署法的動作是不靈活啦因為有一些保險他可能幾個人組成了經紀人公司什麼東西你現在這些業務員全部都要變成僱傭"},{"start":5617.912,"end":5643.709,"text":"那大法官760號的解釋本身就講說這是僱傭呢?還是委員呢?還是承攬呢?還是居監?要視他們簽訂的契約每一個契約去認定那如果你已經被認定為是僱傭的話當然就有勞動基準法的適用但是如果你被定義為這個契約是居監或是是委任或是是承攬他當然就不適用勞動基準法那在法院"},{"start":5644.189,"end":5670.589,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":5672.489,"end":5674.329,"text":"接著請賴世寶賴委員謝謝主席請各位先進有請財政部的莊部長請莊部長旁邊關務署的啦還有國庫署的幫忙可以到旁邊去請各位署長就位謝謝委員好"},{"start":5701.577,"end":5710.263,"text":"部長早安剛才你回答領導委員的一些說明我想再請教你一下"},{"start":5712.031,"end":5735.689,"text":"你有沒有收到我現在放出來這張文外交部給你們的函有沒有收到3月15號發的有沒有收到這件公文是給我們的國庫署還有他們都有收到都收到了你們什麼時候回文給外交部回文給外交部的部分是由我們國庫署回文什麼時候回的"},{"start":5738.176,"end":5740.177,"text":"我們是也在3月15號回的。"},{"start":5753.341,"end":5754.282,"text":"免負菸酒競口業許可執照"},{"start":5771.241,"end":5784.237,"text":"就是 因為他是大使大使回國以後有一個相關的處理辦法第二個免辦理進口酒類衛生草案老實講"},{"start":5787.847,"end":5795.654,"text":"老實講 部長啊 你聽清楚喔這是外交部啊 幫你們訂的啊憑什麼外交部就是說 欸 這個駐外的大使回來他帶的酒 你們就可以免辦進口酒類衛生產業我知道你們是根據這個辦法 但這個辦法是外交部訂的財政部為什麼就變成是他的下屬單位呢"},{"start":5813.148,"end":5816.791,"text":"委員報告跟委員報告不是只有大使是政府派駐到國外的人的政府官員他回國的時候奉調回國的時候所攜帶的自用物品所以這個地方很重要一個就是自用的物品也不是只有大使而且這裡面我們要審核的就是說他是否去自用那數量要還合理的情況"},{"start":5843.449,"end":5844.79,"text":"委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":5866.533,"end":5880.431,"text":"以這個數量來看您覺得他符合自用嗎?當然是不符合所以這個案子外交部他也附了相關的一個清單給我們看只有只是15公尺"},{"start":5881.232,"end":5882.713,"text":"您們是因為昨天下午整個新聞"},{"start":5903.032,"end":5904.293,"text":"議員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":5926.863,"end":5943.38,"text":"特別是根本就沒有在課稅啦!有在課稅有嗎?有!你寫幾個數字出來給我只要超過一公升都要課稅而且通關的程序依然是要經過一定的海關要查驗海關要查驗這一批貨現在到了沒有?這一批貨到了沒有?還沒還沒還沒有到啊各位!你就知道3月15號他"},{"start":5949.907,"end":5950.728,"text":"財政部與外交部爭相拍馬屁"},{"start":5967.256,"end":5969.358,"text":"昨天媒體討論你們還罵媒體咧 你們財政部發的主要長叫呂智慧"},{"start":5986.173,"end":5989.896,"text":"財政部真有說瞎話欸有關媒體報導前駐美國蕭大使美琴代施求進口要求免查驗並非事實啊你剛才回到剛剛是那一頁這頁已經有講了上面就是蕭大使你免查驗你就同意了啊你剛剛講的同意了啊啊怎麼"},{"start":6008.672,"end":6033.304,"text":"怎麼來看第二頁?怎麼你會發這個修文稿呢?並非事實!並非事實!為什麼不是事實呢?前面就在秀在那裡,怎麼不是事實呢?海關的通關查驗都要做。稅也要課。然後呢,只是說他在那個衛生,因為他是自用,所以進口酒類的衛生查驗,他依照相關的規定,所以不需要查驗。我覺得這個部分要把他講清楚。並非事實!財政部真言說瞎話,你再回到剛剛那一章。"},{"start":6039.107,"end":6046.632,"text":"禮民外交部的禮民法重點出來就是兩大重點免付營酒進口業許可執照"},{"start":6048.01,"end":6074.167,"text":"免辦理這個衛生查驗就免查驗來再回過來結果你們發文說媒體報導這個蕭美琴進口的要求免查驗阿就免查驗了阿你是依法就免查驗了阿對不對只是後來你補一個說我要課稅他還沒有談到稅你們公務文化沒有談到稅的問題只讓你們有一個站在註腳的地方"},{"start":6075.528,"end":6087.279,"text":"對,本來我就昨天有媒體問我,我就跟他說要看超過有沒有課稅,財政部一直沒有講,一直等到昨天晚才講,到晚上才發新聞稿啊,我就追蹤這個題目啊,對不對?早就可以講了啊,在中午就可以講,一直到晚上才講。"},{"start":6095.167,"end":6121.695,"text":"但我上次講你們時間拖很久所以我就是...所以...我們內部需要了解整個案子是怎樣啊我需要了解啊奇怪啊3月15號給你文你馬上就可以回啊哪怕人家媒體在問你的時候就要整個...這個東西這麼簡單的事情超過一公寸可是你講到這...閉嘴這個...對這我根本不敢講啊你看啊我根本不敢講啊我們在新聞稿裡面一定說明講得太晚啦"},{"start":6123.816,"end":6145.67,"text":"而且海賊還說並非事實還罵媒體喔!我就覺得很奇怪啊!正面說瞎話!你再回答他那一張!部長你看清楚喔!這個文外交部給你就是不要進口業的、菸酒進口業許個執照!不要做衛生產業酒類第三便利方形!分過來!結果你們"},{"start":6148.99,"end":6152.653,"text":"還罵媒體說這個並不是事實,這就是事實。你怎麼這樣講啊?我覺得跟委員報告,這個查驗齁,那因為一開始的時候是講說什麼特權啦、什麼私隱案,這個查驗...那你可以講特權不是這個事實啊!對不對?查驗就是這個事實啊!這個事實不是事實,然後查驗的部分,海關的查驗是一定要做的。"},{"start":6171.807,"end":6174.709,"text":"這句話你這句話本不好啦這句話感覺就是森鄉拍馬屁啊這句話說啥話來第二個回到今天的題目喔娛樂稅"},{"start":6195.836,"end":6217.412,"text":"所以我覺得莊部長當然你連任部長其實你不用那麼擔心啦短時間不會被換掉啦不必爭相攀耳壁啦這個娛樂稅每年課不到21老實講主席提出的訴求是有他一定的道理你知道基層正本多少"},{"start":6219.131,"end":6222.052,"text":"議員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":6235.836,"end":6251.331,"text":"其他的縣市都要克啊他們都要專門人在服事這個所以老實講主席主張的廢除沒什麼不對啊但是地方財源啊地方需要錢啊這個20億不到19億左右財政部補貼"},{"start":6255.455,"end":6269.304,"text":"專款補貼不可能統統被赦款財政部專款給19億然後呢這個就是給地方政府這個娛樂稅我相信每一個地方政府都鼓掌說總部長英明你覺得怎麼樣"},{"start":6270.771,"end":6287.805,"text":"委員對於這個是不是廢紙財政部有邀請過地方政府來開會那地方政府其實基本上他們基於財政自主他們基於財政自主而且對鄉鎮來說是個非常重要的財源所以他們並不贊成廢紙還是你告訴我我問了幾家現在今天有來的好幾位的長官他們都說我的主張他們比較贊成他們都廢掉但這個錢財政部出"},{"start":6298.949,"end":6326.876,"text":"財政部出這個錢19億你怎麼出不起呢請問你一年稅收有多少當然我們的稅收中央的稅收是有我們的整體稅收大概是以兩兆多兩兆多啊那你就負擔負擔19億那沒啥利是不是我覺得對地方政府來說他們還是需要財政財政的自主權還是需要他們在他們自己身上或者另外學者要講啊不然就是讓地方自己去立這個法你這個法不要管了"},{"start":6327.676,"end":6355.843,"text":"當然我們也考慮到一個地方政府可以﹖第一個稅率本身他們自己可以訂稅率然後這一項目的部分我們如果說我們也可以賦予地方政府來做他自己做彈性的一個﹖我覺得不僅僅是娛樂稅了很多稅都應該啊讓地方能夠自主盡量自主吧不要管人家管錢然後現在來講那個財化法你們又抓在手上"},{"start":6357.764,"end":6369.451,"text":"請問妳的部長,妳知不知道有一個人叫李樹田,妳聽過吧?當然是我們前部長。是啊是啊。他在任內啊,割了一塊漏960萬億要給地方政府採劃法。請問妳準備要割多少給地方政府?"},{"start":6374.176,"end":6374.876,"text":"我們這是推啦!其實我們要的是垂直!"},{"start":6394.855,"end":6420.86,"text":"你要挖一塊給地方政府地方政府去分好不好這個我們再找時間談那個最後一個請那個黃主委一起來好不好我們兩位很簡單的一個小題目2021年到2018年那個中部長也在喔部長也在華南銀行洗錢案被控然後最近才判決罰了在香港分堂喔罰了3600萬來金王王你態度怎麼樣"},{"start":6423.903,"end":6442.112,"text":"這案子我們全程都有掌握,包括因為他不是真正有犯洗錢,而是說在洗錢防治的程序上對於警示的帳戶他沒有做到金管局要求的處理的程序,這個部分而且都已經有委外找顧問公司去改善了。"},{"start":6443.086,"end":6464.137,"text":"所以是法尊的問題吧?是法尊的問題,不是真正有commit的那個Anti-Poliglanti的問題。好,那個,莊部長,莊部長,華南銀行是你管的,你要不要講兩句?這個事情我們都知道,因為華南銀行都跟我們說了,那這個部分事實上是107年以前的事情,而且是華南銀行的香港分行主動跟香港的金管局去"},{"start":6465.357,"end":6484.342,"text":"告訴他們說之前有這樣的一個警示帳戶的問題出了很大的一些案件那事實上這個部分呢香港的金管局受理以後他們之後其實金管那個香港分行他們在洗錢的防治或者是知恐的這個部分都做了相當多的改善也經過顧問公司做的過驗證是有效性的改善所以這個部分是107年以前而且他們主動報告"},{"start":6490.863,"end":6491.483,"text":"王世堅、王委員"},{"start":6517.529,"end":6521.77,"text":"財政部財政部長莊貴昌財政部長莊貴昌財政部長莊貴昌財政部長莊貴昌財政部長莊貴昌財政部長"},{"start":6546.509,"end":6572.158,"text":"刪除的這一個部分那我看到你的態度那麼就我的態度要我過去我就會送你個十字架這個十字架橫批就是稅收直批就是國產那你所有答覆還有你的肢體語言就是說誰都休想搶走十字架你是這樣子的心態喔那這是對的這是好事喔"},{"start":6575.56,"end":6598.08,"text":"我認為我們國家有你這樣子能夠守住我們國產這樣的好部長是正面的啦這是國家有幸不過這個十字架上面稅收這個十字架上面的一些污點你總是要把它去掉啊比方說娛樂稅不是嗎"},{"start":6600.288,"end":6624.476,"text":"這些不合時宜的稅制剛才講過好多它的不合時宜比如說娛樂稅我再講一些它荒唐的地方現在我們民間為了避這些娛樂稅因為太繁複了這很莫名其妙的我舉幾個例子啦有樂團的餐酒館那要課娛樂稅他們就把它改成播音樂的餐廳"},{"start":6626.294,"end":6634.041,"text":"那脫口秀表演的地方把它改成叫做好笑的演講這個時候都很奇怪就是改了名字喔脫口秀要靠娛樂稅好笑的演講不必好夾娃娃機要娛樂稅他們改成選物販賣機不用"},{"start":6652.312,"end":6677.125,"text":"你看 你上有政策民眾下有對策日月潭的遊艇 啊呀 這個是娛樂設施 你把它課娛樂稅欸 我們台鐵的觀光列車 不必台鐵的觀光列車 我們說這個是交通工具 所以不必娛樂稅觀光都寫上去了喔 你看看"},{"start":6678.691,"end":6706.805,"text":"所以我認為這樣子是已經到了荒唐的地步而且你講的總金額其實不大我們一再講16億到18億那你說這個是地方他們重要的稅收全國22縣市這16到18億平均下來大概都不到1億元但是為了徵收他們要耗費大筆的人力資源"},{"start":6708.291,"end":6732.777,"text":"所以對他們說很傷腦筋啊16到18億對我們中央政府而言我如果我們中央政府這麼體恤地方政府的話大筆一揮嘛我們那補助款隨便幾筆隨便一揮都不止16到18億而且是總額喔總額所以我認為這一個部分那個部長是不是你要特別"},{"start":6733.677,"end":6756.51,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":6756.824,"end":6775.261,"text":"新的綠色稅制比方說能源稅、環境稅這才符合嘛你看喔在奧運奧運會所有運動項目裡面只有高爾夫在全世界被我們台灣我們國家的政府來苛徵娛樂稅"},{"start":6779.06,"end":6795.245,"text":"這是很荒唐的事情啊那推動綠色稅制就你講的嘛欸替代財源多啦很多我們可以來找的嘛比如說我們交通部課這個棄燃稅隨車徵收這一些還有我們"},{"start":6796.625,"end":6814.631,"text":"財政部的汽機車貨物稅這些都應該環境署空污費那個環境部空污費土壤污染費等等這些都是嘛我們應該另外一個方式財政部應該主動找我們這幾個部會來商量一下可不可以"},{"start":6816.305,"end":6819.267,"text":"謝謝委員的指教我想第一個就是我們的稅當然是要與時俱進那娛樂稅這個部分當然如同剛剛委員所提的有一些項目啦或者是稅率啦或者基增成本都應該考慮所以我們今天也提出我們的書面報告也提出了不廢紙的"},{"start":6835.18,"end":6847.03,"text":"不廢止然後接下來項目考慮稅率的上限往下調整以及賦予地方政府的一個權限他可以去做停徵其實我們知道其實有相關的一些法律也有一些補助我們知道像文化藝術創新條例裡面對文化工作有表率"},{"start":6851.454,"end":6867.272,"text":"於委員所提的綠色稅制這個部分確實是未來我們這個部分我們其實現在也在收集國際間這樣的一個相關的稅的部分我們都一直在收集資料我們未來會在整個整體政策裡面去研議有關綠色的稅制那綠色稅制當然要涵蓋娛樂稅這個問題啊"},{"start":6871.657,"end":6893.146,"text":"談了不下20年啦 光17年前民國96年當時立法院做的決議 這個附帶決議就是說一年內要廢除娛樂稅結果97年立院改選啊 那之後財政部又不當一回事啦 所以就我剛剛就問你啊"},{"start":6894.073,"end":6911.928,"text":"我剛剛說17年來呀我們財政部做了哪一些努力針對娛樂稅該廢止沒有嘛你不廢止你說因為難尋找替代財源那這個替代財源到現在找了17年啦一個才不到20億的那個娛樂稅找了17年還找不到"},{"start":6923.738,"end":6952.085,"text":"這很怪嘛那至於我剛剛在提案說明裡面說文創那文創更是無辜嘛文創現在這整個產業的GDP占我們全國4.8個%捧業的工作人員達到2.4個%我們政府一方面鼓勵文創也設了文策院那也給大筆的資金來補助這些戲劇電影這都正面的啊"},{"start":6954.053,"end":6958.409,"text":"結果一方面補助另外一方面來跟他瞌睡"},{"start":6959.95,"end":6983.73,"text":"這很奇怪嘛一手補助另外一隻手來把錢拿走這很奇怪啦這基本上就違背政府一開始的美意所以我覺得這一個部分部長好不好你除了身上背的十字架以外那個你要用開放的心來看到時代的進步"},{"start":6985.21,"end":6985.931,"text":"主席,我請請管委黃主委"},{"start":7005.925,"end":7032.742,"text":"委員好這本來不是我的提案但是剛好有幾件你剛提到的剛好有幾件觸發的我先前有在質詢的啦就是說現在你針對我們立院現在這個提案要把授權海外投資這個比例45%降到25%齁這個部分那你有提到說不肯的原因你說因為"},{"start":7034.622,"end":7035.762,"text":"議員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議須經各黨團簽署不復"},{"start":7061.311,"end":7077.582,"text":"我們海外投資啊第一點海外投資先前啊這個彩雷不暴顯的也非常多啊就在去年啊富邦不是一腳踏入在海外的投資的部分"},{"start":7079.157,"end":7106.508,"text":"這個部分有匯率的風險有戰爭的風險啊去年富邦不是A角俄國戰爭這件事情歷歷在目所以也不見然全部在海外那麼大的金額就是對的但是應該下降多少要多少時間慢慢來引導這個確實是要從長計議那第二點就是說這些受險業啊"},{"start":7108.12,"end":7129.967,"text":"投資在我們國內公共建設的比例過低嘛我們常年一直呼籲受險資金應該大量的來投入我們的公共建設比如說我們現在各縣市臺北、台中、高雄、新北都在推動的捷運建設"},{"start":7131.567,"end":7158.567,"text":"結運建設不但我們中央政府亦助地方政府也配合款以外未來結運成型之後營運那是日日減載每天收乘客繳的運費那是很好的一個還款的來源台北是光一天220萬人次"},{"start":7162.708,"end":7184.943,"text":"對營運阿其他各縣市其他縣運現在也是營運都起色這是一項非常好的公共建設足以讓受選業來投資結果受選業沒有阿受選業這幾年到海外四處去投資只要高利率高利率的他都去"},{"start":7186.428,"end":7205.279,"text":"結果投入我們的公共建設你看從2019年到2022年本來平均都還有300億喔到2023年到去年雪崩四下滑受選頁投資我們本國公共建設只剩下112億112億"},{"start":7210.185,"end":7229.055,"text":"那個主委你很清楚嘛,109年到現在他可每一年他可運用授權力可運用的資金從28兆、30兆、31兆都大概維持在30兆左右。投入公共建設的比例啊,讚!"},{"start":7229.975,"end":7254.862,"text":"百分之零點一一啦去年如果只有一百一十二億的話是佔百分之零點零三萬分之三等於他不把我們國內的公共建設當一回事他不把政府對他們的呼籲引導當一回事嘛不是這樣嗎"},{"start":7256.974,"end":7257.094,"text":"同意!"},{"start":7257.094,"end":7257.134,"text":"都有!"},{"start":7273.883,"end":7279.349,"text":"我光講台北市現在正進行這三條非常重要的南環、北環、東環段工資上漲、物料上漲這個就差額440億這個440億對受險資金而言"},{"start":7291.041,"end":7318.678,"text":"可是問題是現在這些工程的發包單位都是寧可用編預算他們也有同意保險公司去投資我跟委員報告2016我當時就跟行政院建議航站第三航站可不可以由保險公司去進行2016年你有建議過我有提醒當時的行政院有說航站第三航站需要錢可不可以讓保險因為航站他有收那個那個有收費航站就是一個很好的例子啊"},{"start":7319.318,"end":7344.748,"text":"我覺得重點就是說是不是國內公共建設可以開放給保險業投資這個很重要當然可是大家都是用編預算來做希望受險資金可以大量的回來投資我們本國的公共建設這是我們需要的公共建設晚一天社會成本就增加一點不好意思主席我最後再提醒你一句這些受險業"},{"start":7346.618,"end":7374.187,"text":"你剛剛說海外資金利率高所以人家他去那邊我認為他不盡然是為了保護啦他跟保護講計算能夠多少讓你保護分紅的他是以我們國內的利率來算的每一個保險都是然後他自己要賺錢的賺他們營運階層錢的賺他公司錢的他自己就想辦法到海外去"},{"start":7375.239,"end":7395.464,"text":"如果他今天算的 如果他能夠把說我有多少的比例我要投資到國外這些高利率的地方去 我以這個來跟保護計算 那我們沒話講 他跟我們保護算的都是我們以我們國內利率為準"},{"start":7397.101,"end":7418.958,"text":"在國內講一套然後把資金拿到國外去而且國外除了高利率以外就我講的還會有一些曝險的因素有匯率啊現在還有戰爭啊等等的因素在不是嗎那賺保險公司要賺賠我們所有的保護存款保險大眾賠來賠你們大家他是這樣的心態嗎"},{"start":7425.221,"end":7426.902,"text":"郭國文、郭昭瑋財政部的莊部長"},{"start":7457.513,"end":7474.759,"text":"莊部長,你好。莊部長,今天是地球日。我想能源政策的關係,我們目前積極地在推動一些能源發展。推動能源發展的過程當中,我發現業者為了KPI,但是比較缺乏有一些自律的情況。"},{"start":7476.5,"end":7491.973,"text":"結果早就怎麼樣呢?造成有些是假養殖增重店的餘電共生的政策也有造成跟新辦計畫不符變成有一些非法的掩埋物等等"},{"start":7492.774,"end":7516.812,"text":"但是呢我們對於這些綠能政策的放款是非常的大方啊就我知道理解的部分就台銀本身到2023年年底受信的金額是高達4563億因為這是國家政策嘛就你所了解的我們目前八大公共行戶當中啊授予這些融資的這個貸款金額到底多少為什麼"},{"start":7517.532,"end":7540.148,"text":"因為ESG大聯盟是從我們國公營這邊開始嘛 對不對我們希望從金融業然後呢慢慢的去影響到我們放款的對象讓其他的這個行業也能夠達到這個ESG的一個落實可是在此同時呢我們目前發現了我們放款的對象當中呢有些人環境永續跟社會責任反而是衝突的"},{"start":7541.737,"end":7552.351,"text":"一邊呢你要追求環境永續你要推動這個綠能產業但是呢同時呢他在推動的過程當中卻違背社會責任這時候要怎麼處理金額有多少那你們怎麼處理"},{"start":7553.724,"end":7561.549,"text":"跟委員報告我們供股金融事業在投資在綠電還有再生能源產業的部分總共有400多件然後有2500億至於在光電的部分受信戶數大概有800多戶然後有456億這樣的一個金額當然在我們的不管是供股行戶在放貸的時候當然要審核相關的一個他們申請貸款的一些資料"},{"start":7581.842,"end":7584.325,"text":"這一點不是在審核的過程嗎?這個流程本席也清楚了部長謝謝你再一次說明但是我說"},{"start":7603.386,"end":7604.247,"text":"委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":7625.928,"end":7649.015,"text":"可是20以下的他沒有需要處理這個永續發展報告書的情況底下有沒有可能有一個ESG的信用評比這個部分我已經有要求經濟部而經濟部目前也在建構當中預計最近之內會上網如果他上網的情況底下我們是不是可以由經濟部做一個他公佈的標準舉凡影響生態舉凡影響機油的生產"},{"start":7651.756,"end":7664.151,"text":"舉凡影響人民的一個生活所導致的這種結果你可以來要求這些販款單位這些壽星的單位來要求他來說明或者是停播或者說回款項有沒有可能"},{"start":7664.988,"end":7693.399,"text":"委員您提的這個非常好也就是說對ESG這個部分要怎麼樣落實要一個評比的一個標準對不對要一個大家一個共同認同的標準我覺得也許可以朝這個方向大家來努力是你們研究一下好不好就是說現在經濟部已經有建立一個標準出來而且是定期的公佈公開的一個平台就依照這個公開的平台或者呢有一個違反刑犯計畫的一個事實違反ESG的精神的時候你們應該進行後面的這個代後管理的處理啊可以嗎"},{"start":7694.579,"end":7716.449,"text":"為什麼我要求公共銀行?公共銀行已經有成立一個大聯盟了,你要做一個示範啊。對,我們已經有一個倡議平台,是。好,謝謝委員指教。這個部分之外,我就叫你剛剛回答有關於蕭大使回來自用的酒高達23瓶輸5公升,你先說5公升以上要課稅嘛對不對?"},{"start":7719.05,"end":7736.221,"text":"稅是一公升以上都要課稅?對,一公升以上都要課稅,然後一到五公升要課稅嘛好,那出現一個問題本席之前有就教於稅務署的部分也就是說我們免稅的金額從去年五月的時候我就質詢了就是總共才兩萬元已經高達"},{"start":7738.402,"end":7738.602,"text":"議員王世堅等"},{"start":7754.991,"end":7755.011,"text":"蘇貞昌議員"},{"start":7786.072,"end":7802.473,"text":"但是酒的部分我們現在討論酒的部分現在一瓶在計算在免稅額裡頭嘛一公升免稅額但是通常那一瓶啦因為一清酒的為例的話大概720ml大概你應該挺多戴一瓶而已啦你戴第二瓶你就要瞌睡了嘛不是嗎是"},{"start":7803.334,"end":7828.934,"text":"所以現在就有民眾來跟我反映說他們每次出國都只能帶一瓶回來那通常不是菸、酒、藥品都會有受限嘛但是酒的部分通常是拿來做送禮的他想要自用這個送禮至少可以加個一瓶嘛這比較合理更何況你現在從兩萬五變成三萬五啦他可不可以有多買的空間有沒有可能隨之調整的可能?署長"},{"start":7829.875,"end":7833.58,"text":"國庫署的那麼嚴重嗎?你們再辦法以後就可以處理啦。國庫署來講一下"},{"start":7848.103,"end":7876.142,"text":"其實酒類的部分我們先前規定都是一瓶那未來如果要做調整還是要再研議你們內部研議一下啦一個月給本席答覆一下好不好能夠隨之這一個3萬5的這個部分來公布這個利多更好啦我只是要求加一瓶而已自用送禮兩箱禮加起來就兩瓶而已嘛不是嗎好不好我看羅昭偉很同意我的看法的樣子一直在笑"},{"start":7877.424,"end":7880.651,"text":"但是我接下來我想請教一下那兩位署長請回部長稍後一下我先請黃主委時間請暫停黃主委"},{"start":7890.351,"end":7915.58,"text":"主委好主委主委因為你最近對於本土的售銜業有進行一些監理寬容那我發現這個監理寬容有連鎖效應原本大家擔心的IFR 17原來好像是大魔王那現在感覺上好像有種大放送的感覺為什麼我發現IFR 4到現在為止有提出一個我們有關於責任準備金的部分"},{"start":7916.62,"end":7942.117,"text":"這責任準備金的部分針對利率的部分跟對照於IFR 17的部分已經變成有盈餘了開始有盈餘的現象然後之前是說缺口有900億然後業者就開始說是不是把這個盈餘可以動用到連同變成是說可以移軟到這個外匯準備金的頭頭上去但是外匯準備金上次我就交於署長的部分"},{"start":7944.319,"end":7965.206,"text":"局長跟我講說這個將來上限沒有調高可是我算一算上限雖然沒有調高可是你還是有一定的一個空間欸以國外投資的話佔將近七成嘛當然海外投資跟國際版上限的話大概65.25但是這個部分目前投資的金額大概18.35兆也就是大概大約是有57.5"},{"start":7966.707,"end":7984.535,"text":"那我距離上限的算一算都2.46兆雖然你上限沒有調高阿局長說上限沒有調高可是他會不會因此而造成這個資金的乾坤大挪移以至於呢我們這個保險基金呢跑到海外的比例會更加提高有沒有可能這個可能性"},{"start":7985.369,"end":8009.788,"text":"應該不會有這個問題,是不是請局長來說明?局長,這一點是本席擔心的啦。跟委員報告,應該不會,因為我們海外投資的上限是法令明定的。那現在主要是避險的部分,避險它有避險成本。那外匯價格準備金的這個主要是在那個平穩那個避險成本過高的問題,只有這個功能。"},{"start":8010.168,"end":8039.668,"text":"只是這個功能,所以移過去之後不會造成他們這個資金更加的嚴重?不會,它那個是因為現在是lock-in的,將來2026是以限時利率,因為現在利率高,所以會有保駕差額準備金,就折準今天保駕經濟的差額,保駕差額準備金就可以做,我10月12號研討會有報告,現在保險局也在跟公會討論,這部分可以做一些彈性運用。對,這邊可以有限時的利率嘛,那那個IFOR是不是一個比較相對固定利率嘛?"},{"start":8040.848,"end":8065.76,"text":"對,所以說會造成所謂的盈餘嘛不是盈餘,就是有一個差額啦有差額啦而且要看我們去訂定那個保駕金是用竹單還是群組我們都用比較彈性的方式讓業者可以產生一些差額差額,把這些差額來進行挪用那不影響保護權益啦當然,不影響保護權益啦那不是說挪用,是說可以做彈性運用可以部分支應到外匯價格變動準備金主委,因為時間上的關係,我再佔用一點點時間啦"},{"start":8069.062,"end":8094.077,"text":"因為我同意你剛剛回答王委員的說法確實上是沒有案源的問題啦我也認同你2016的時候第三行下的時候那個做法但是我在上一次的質詢的時候有要求4月29號的時候就是說國發那個國發會要召開一個平台會議這個平台會議的時候能不能大力建議一下因為多半的啊這個公部門啊都想要當業主啊"},{"start":8094.577,"end":8095.318,"text":"委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復"},{"start":8113.698,"end":8133.533,"text":"主委的角色很重要希望把這個部分資金才可能回送回來台灣嘛否則的話那個召委他的說法他也是用心良苦45%要降到25%這個方法是很直接了當但是呢會產生一定的後遺症啦我認為是如此啦但是要漸進式的讓這個資金回來確實要有一些行政的作為啦"},{"start":8134.602,"end":8136.543,"text":"陳秀寳等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復"},{"start":8151.452,"end":8154.075,"text":"主委跟部長麻煩4月29號的時候好好慎思討論一下好不好?是 謝謝我們會積極去表達這個想法 謝謝委員好 謝謝"},{"start":8181.704,"end":8204.997,"text":"接著請李坤澄、李委員質詢那現場有李委員我們等一下是不是再請李燕秀委員質詢完就休息一下好謝謝主席我們先請這個財政部我們莊部長請莊部長"},{"start":8211.241,"end":8212.762,"text":"跟證因為現場顏寬恆委員在等菸委員發言完畢"},{"start":8218.825,"end":8243.463,"text":"這個 有兩份公文 請部長看一下那這個都是在這個今年的3月15號那一部 有一個公文是外交部喊給財政部的那有一個是財政部喊給外交部的那都是有關於這個我們 這個駐美國的這個肖前大使這個 諷調反國海運自用物品通關的事情那請問一下 這兩份公文是真的還假的"},{"start":8245.208,"end":8259.961,"text":"有這兩份公文有這兩份公文那如果這兩份公文為真的話那就要去查一下這兩份公文是什麼流出去的那這個是有一部分要去查那另外一個呢"},{"start":8261.36,"end":8283.551,"text":"另外一個就是說那我請教一下那整件事情這個被這個外界導向成說這個肖前大使有這個特權然後這個甚至呢這個在這個外面的這個網站上面還寫說他走私那請問一下這個我們財政部長那肖大使這件事情上面有沒有特權有沒有走私"},{"start":8284.172,"end":8303.753,"text":"一、沒有特權二、不是走私對那他是不是按照這個相關的規定來處理是的因為我們的國家政府派駐到國外的人員奉調回國的時候他攜帶的自用物品回來那外交部依例都會行文給財政部都會依例的所以在去年"},{"start":8304.053,"end":8323.2,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":8323.3,"end":8323.961,"text":"外交部的行文欄有附後面的清單"},{"start":8347.318,"end":8372.642,"text":"那附後面清單是大概是多少公升?清單裡面總共第一個是23坪然後15.1公升是,非常清楚,是好,那所以說按照規定的話他只要在按照相關的規定來申報然後就是可以不用有這個許可證那也可以不用這個查驗嘛是,但是稅還是依然超過1公升依然是要課關稅就是超過1公升的部分依然要課稅還是要課稅,對,對,對啊所以說什麼"},{"start":8375.643,"end":8401.91,"text":"目前看起來就是說肖大使第一個他要來做申報然後外交部來為你們財政部那財政部說按照相關規定可以那就是說比如說免查驗但是超過一公升的還是要報稅嘛還是要繳稅嘛而且在進口到海關的時候海關的查驗也都是按照他們海關查驗的相關規定來辦理的是好那肖大使的這一批貨進來了嗎沒有沒有目前沒有目前還沒有進來是是是好"},{"start":8402.45,"end":8428.631,"text":"所以說這個我也認為說是認知作戰的一種就是說第一個這個公文我不知道是怎麼出去的那第二個這個公文反而證實了說其實蕭大使他是有按照相關的規定來做申報的那可是呢因為他這個有一般民眾不知道他就把他轉換成說好像有什麼退權可以帶酒回來這個好像不用查驗那可是我們按照相關規定他本來就可以不用查驗啊"},{"start":8429.432,"end":8452.42,"text":"是,我們都按規定來處理的而且只要超過1公升,他還是要繳稅嘛對不對要繳稅,所有的稅,關稅、營業稅跟菸酒稅都要扣著那就是我想利用這個機會要澄清一下,不然今天我看這個有相關的媒體也在做類似的新聞當然你們有發新聞稿啦,我有看到有的,我們昨天就馬上發了那我認為說這個東西就是說,因為蕭大使未來是我們的副總統"},{"start":8453.14,"end":8473.357,"text":"那有關於在520之前相關這一種假說訊息會越來越多那我希望說這個相關的部會遇到這一種假說訊息還是要這個在第一時間要立刻來做澄清是我們會本於事實跟法令來做說明好謝謝部長那接下來我們請這個金管會還有黃主委現在請黃主委莊部長請回"},{"start":8476.783,"end":8496.799,"text":"主委好今天我們有關於《保險法》第177條的修正案修改的規定裡面就是說它的工作條件含承攬、委任、雇佣、勞動契約等等應該由主管機關會同勞動部共同訂定以維護廣大保險業務源之勞動權益"},{"start":8499.841,"end":8499.981,"text":"徐富癸"},{"start":8513.516,"end":8530.943,"text":"有這個議題是定期都會有人提出來大家討論的對,然後呢我看是大概這個金管會或是說保險局這個態度都蠻一致的因為就去年我看去年這個怎麼講今年也是怎麼講態度是蠻一致的啦那我是覺得說那對於這個保險業務員來講"},{"start":8535.945,"end":8547.495,"text":"昨年開了這個公聽會,居住在這邊他們主要有三大陳情那三大陳情我再念一下那我看說這一年到底有沒有做什麼改變或是調整那等一下我請這個勞動部這個勞動關係師今天是副市長過來嗎?好來也請"},{"start":8553.759,"end":8563.843,"text":"保險業工會還有三大懲刑公司片面終止或修改與業務員的承攬契約承攬契約被終止後續期保費佣金也消失第三個是獎懲不公的問題如果保險業務員對於"},{"start":8574.771,"end":8576.392,"text":"委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書 »:"},{"start":8602.026,"end":8602.788,"text":"還是我們先請這個勞動部先來講一下好了請勞動部"},{"start":8610.131,"end":8635.824,"text":"針對保險公司跟承染重驗人員的雇佣或委任相關的爭議其實勞動部為了要協助勞資雙方明確釐清到底是雇佣或委任然後避免假承染真雇佣我們其實有訂定一個勞動契約指導原則那明確有25項的指標如果勞務雙方對於相關雇佣或委任有相關的需要釐清的都有相關的行政指導可以參考"},{"start":8636.984,"end":8647.411,"text":"那我問一下局長好了就是說那現在雖然說這個勞動部有相關的行政指導那我請問一下我剛才講的三大曾經這個到現在有任何的改變嗎?"},{"start":8649.367,"end":8669.798,"text":"我跟委員報告一下就是片面修改勞務承攬契約的部分其實我們一直都有在幫工會跟授權公司的工會有做一些協商就那個契約內容有在討論那另外就是那個獎懲的部分其實業務員的獎懲其實是兩個部分一個就是公司內部有一個獎懲的委員會"},{"start":8676.841,"end":8702.146,"text":"那這個委員會裡面我們要求它業者就是說公司代表跟業務員代表要均衡那另外在工會裡面也有一個講成委員會也就是它這個是第二層的如果你在公司內部你覺得還是不公平就可以跟工會那工會的部分其實我們那個工會的工是公司的工嘛是不是公司的工但是但是它裡面喔"},{"start":8704.566,"end":8720.74,"text":"我們要求這個專家學者要占一部分然後業者代表跟業務員代表兩邊要一致也就是說他人數是相等的那這裡也有一些申訴的機制啊"},{"start":8721.26,"end":8748.508,"text":"委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書 »:對,申訴的機制也是那個公司的工,那個工會來做處理吧,是不是?這個基本上是代表公司的啊,不是代表勞方的啊。但是裡面的那個組成我們讓它就是社會公正人士代表比較多一點,然後業者...你們組成齁,那我講說多少人數比例是佔多少勒?真正的人數比例我現在不是很記得,但是業者的代表一定要跟那個業務員代表兩個,如果他是兩個的話就..."},{"start":8749.744,"end":8750.846,"text":"議員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":8766.327,"end":8782.041,"text":"續期佣金的部分有一部分是遞延的有一部分是不是他的那個後面的服務報酬因為這個是他們早期的契約關係啦所以我們也請他們去釐清過但是因為牽涉到的是有些業務員同意"},{"start":8783.422,"end":8804.77,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":8804.87,"end":8821.091,"text":"因為他這個是過去的簽約啦那業務員如果他並沒有共識的話這個事情我們比較不適合去介入他的失選企業對啊那如果有問題咧有問題又回到就是說我剛才講就是說又是由主要是由公司組成的公會來做處理嗎"},{"start":8821.912,"end":8823.613,"text":"我再請問一下勞動部,去年是3月份公聽會勞動部有五大建議"},{"start":8846.812,"end":8852.278,"text":"那我請問一下那到底有沒有建立一個勞資雙方的建立對話平台鼓勵勞資雙方簽團體協約有沒有啊"},{"start":8855.772,"end":8878.65,"text":"鼓勵勞資雙方簽團體協約是我們勞動部一直在努力的方向就還沒有做就對了我們是有相關的獎勵的這個措施那我們部裡面其實也對工會其實有維持持續對話的一個到部裡面拜訪我們也有直接做輔導他們如何協商就是我解釋就是去年3月份的這個工廳會這個勞動部的這個五大建議"},{"start":8883.274,"end":8912.335,"text":"我聽到現在為止有可能都還沒有落實那如果有落實的地方再請金管會給我相關的資料好不好好 謝謝謝謝主席我們會提供 謝謝好 謝謝謝謝接著請李燕秀李委員下一位嚴寬衡嚴委員請準備然後我們就休息一下好 是 謝謝召委我可以請財政部部長"},{"start":8913.131,"end":8914.412,"text":"請川副部長。委員好。部長好。我剛才看到你回應李昆城委員有關於臉書粉專上爆料公社出現的一個公文截圖指出我們的接下來520要上任蕭副總統3月赴美的行程,帶回來的相關的一些酒品。我先請教一下部長。"},{"start":8941.916,"end":8962.953,"text":"這三頁資料是不是正確的?有沒有哪裡是不正確的?跟委員報告有這個公文確實是外交部有給我們國庫署還有基隆官有這個公文這三頁資料我手上這三頁資料有沒有哪裡是錯誤的?我要確認一下"},{"start":8963.833,"end":8965.374,"text":"有這個公文是的"},{"start":8992.446,"end":9017.387,"text":"所以就沒有所謂日資作單問題這三頁是準確的好那也沒有順其委照的問題嘛對不對是啊我們是有這個公文啊對是有這個公文好那我就要請問外交部那我們到目前為止報導的內容可能有一點跟事實不符啦對不起您再說一次至於那個報導的內容是跟事實有不符那是有這個公文是好部長"},{"start":9019.23,"end":9041.495,"text":"目前外交部對外說他要跟相關機關協調調查那調查的內容是什麼?參與的有哪些單位?這個我不清楚那調查什麼?他現在在調查什麼?你們在調查什麼?我不知道他"},{"start":9043.613,"end":9058.315,"text":"這個部門外交部他在調查的事項我們並不清楚如果他需要調查那財政部是配合調查事項對啊他現在會同哪些單位調查你知不知道這個部我們並不清楚他一個人在說你們完全不清楚"},{"start":9059.976,"end":9082.341,"text":"因為外交部對外的新聞回應是說這個有操弄認知作戰的惡意外交部將協同相關機關協調調查那我就要了解到底調查的單位有哪些那這個公文是不是偽造顯然剛才從你回覆的沒有偽造的問題嘛我跟委員報告這個偽"},{"start":9083.601,"end":9084.922,"text":"我沒有這麼問你我沒有這麼問你喔好那是跟事實不合嘛所以我們"},{"start":9101.209,"end":9129.558,"text":"我絕對尊重駐外人員的辛勞這個相關的規定我也非常清楚他當然可以帶酒回來只要有申報他帶了也可以免進口酒類的衛生檢查這一次你剛才今天早上也看到說過去有55位外交人員有帶酒回來也有申報那大部分從你們這邊手邊的資料大部分帶回來的酒類大概都有多少公升大概帶回來幾瓶"},{"start":9131.179,"end":9150.736,"text":"呃 這個部分啊 因為我們手邊沒有 呃 你怎麼會沒有 今天早上你說可以回應其他領導副委員 因為說有55位人員 有55件 那但詳細的清澈的部分啊 我這邊手邊可能沒 我沒有來 誰可以回應我 誰可以回應我呃 是 呃 報告委員 那海關部分這 現在已經在清查了 你是關務署嘛 對不對 是 我關務署 是"},{"start":9152.087,"end":9176.645,"text":"來您回應我來過去55位大概自用都可以大概帶多少即便是免稅有或者是有繳稅一公升以下免繳一公升以上要繳都是自用大概過去這55位外交委員回台灣之後大概都帶多少酒回來跟委員報告初步清查是這樣子因為每個人的需求不一樣了所以從0到30瓶都有可能"},{"start":9178.101,"end":9203.555,"text":"有沒有超過50瓶、70瓶、80瓶的?什麼叫做自用?什麼是一個合理的自用?到目前大概看到最多的應該是40瓶啦。三、四十瓶左右這樣子。那代多少瓶?就是說自用的合理,但是三、四十瓶你們覺得可以接受?你到底公務署對於代多少酒是合理的?即便是自用,那代100瓶你們也覺得無所謂,只要繳稅都無所謂?"},{"start":9204.462,"end":9208.125,"text":"我的重點不在繳稅,就是說他自用可以帶回來繳稅也可以但是所謂的自用他帶200瓶回來也可以嗎?"},{"start":9231.542,"end":9254.449,"text":"這要個別去認定啦,個案去認定。這不是個案,這是我覺得你們對外要交代清楚。部長你了解我意思嗎?我知道您的意思。但200坪回來他即便繳稅,但200坪回來是不是合理?我覺得這件事情要交代清楚,什麼是一個適用合理的範疇可以帶回來。另外,"},{"start":9255.169,"end":9267.683,"text":"我觀察到這個我們準副總統帶回來的酒我倒是蠻訝異的就是說這個金車的我看一下金車的葛瑪蘭從台灣帶去再帶回來因為他現在還沒進關嘛對不對還沒有還沒有進關"},{"start":9272.708,"end":9279.416,"text":"最便宜的10塊錢的酒他也帶回來10塊錢申報10塊錢帶回來兩瓶加拿大的酒還有台灣帶去最貴的反而是葛瑪蘭兩瓶帶回來100塊美金從台灣帶去再帶回來700茂的"},{"start":9292.591,"end":9319.579,"text":"我蠻訝異的沒關係我覺得我尊重因為只要符合合法我都尊重但是我必須要提醒關務署我絕對尊重住外使節回來帶一些酒回來自用也合理但是到底多少量的自用多少公升的自用是一個合理的一百坪是不是合理兩百坪是不是合理難道繳稅都合理嗎這是我要問你的問題"},{"start":9320.879,"end":9346.238,"text":"那我也觀察到副總統帶回來這批酒有台灣帶去的再帶回來然後也有10塊錢的酒也勞動到我們副總統帶回來我看這些內容我蠻訝異的啦那但是我覺得還沒進口嘛還沒進到台灣還沒貨還沒到台灣嘛對不對是還沒有還沒有還沒有好那我們就好好的查喔因為我還有兩分鐘時間我還是要回到正題問一下我們今天177條"},{"start":9349.64,"end":9360.819,"text":"到底是承攬﹖噢對不起你請回部長我請問一下金管會的主委主委今天這個事情存在問題已經非常久我們"},{"start":9362.898,"end":9383.776,"text":"保險業者、保險的業務員在臺灣將近有三、四十萬個員工到底他算承攬還是僱傭的關係我相信每一個委員辦公室都有接受到陳情那長期以來他們都一直希望說勞動部的角色應該要在裡頭才對因為有時候"},{"start":9385.282,"end":9405.773,"text":"在契約關係裡面對他們的要求看起來保險業務員他上班很彈性跟一般的朝九晚五不太一樣有很多不同的彈性在但是有時候對他們的要求的強度跟高度其實都超過勞基法的相關的規範"},{"start":9406.974,"end":9422.739,"text":"所以我們才說到底為什麼不能有勞動部的角色在合約裡面因為這些保險業者跟這些業務員他們的合約其實內容不是每一個都一樣我知道他有分很多種"},{"start":9424.299,"end":9430.481,"text":"所以但是有時候為什麼我們長期希望說勞動部的角色要在裡頭因為他畢竟是勞工有時候對他們的要求事實上已經超過一些勞基法的要求包括對業務員的獎懲還有對於一些停止業務員招攬的行為還有註銷登記或不予登錄的行為還有撤銷登錄等等"},{"start":9447.165,"end":9458.131,"text":"其實這些都涉及到勞工的權益今天勞動部現場有人也在現場對不對時間先暫停時間暫停請勞動部勞動部同仁長期知道我非常關心勞基法所以這件事情涉及到40萬個勞工你個人覺得勞動部你覺得你的角色到底應不應該在裡頭"},{"start":9477.743,"end":9479.025,"text":"目前勞動部主管全國各行各業的勞動事務基本上有勞動契約關係的保險從業人員目前是受到我們所有勞動法令上面的規範"},{"start":9491.311,"end":9498.274,"text":"但是我們看到其實勞動部其實相關的權益剛才今天這麼多委員在問這些事情就是說我覺得保險業務員的相關的規範跟範疇裡面我覺得包括過去我們就可以看到包括旅行業者他們有僱用或指派這些導覽人員領隊等等"},{"start":9514.04,"end":9533.733,"text":"他們都有另外再要求是說契約內容不得違反交通部觀光局相關的公告契約而且有不得記載的事項在裡頭所以我才強調說今天不管金管會保險局的說法是什麼我更認為這牽涉到40萬保險業務員的相關的權益勞動權益在裡頭所以我覺得契約的內容你們應該要有角色在裡頭才對那個勞動部的同仁"},{"start":9545.155,"end":9545.516,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":9566.055,"end":9588.786,"text":"主委您了解我意思嗎?我們了解其實我跟您報告其實市局長過去這麼多年來一直跟勞動部一起合作那在相關兩個工會不同的工會的協調過程中也就是說你們今天相關兩個工會處理方法還沒有達到平衡點所以今天才有這麼多工會仍舊對於現在對於勞工的權益不斷的在澄清"},{"start":9589.346,"end":9615.18,"text":"所以也就是現在的做法是不是要去做調整的?有進展但是還有一些可能要再繼續再協調的這絕對不是進展177條的修法說明得非常清楚勞工的權益沒有放在跟資方沒有在天平上所以你們所謂剛才才會有委員講說這個工會是公司的工不是工人的工這個差距實在是太大我必須提醒經管會跟保險局謝謝好謝謝委員"},{"start":9620.765,"end":9637.695,"text":"接著請嚴寬衡、嚴偉文質詢嚴寬衡、嚴偉文質詢主席各位列席官員主席我想請財政部莊部長請莊部長"},{"start":9644.198,"end":9665.785,"text":"委員好部長好先恭喜部長來續任財政部的部長那我想請教部長上週財政委員會通過本期的臨時提案是一項便民的提案讓受天災地震的民眾書面審理的金額從15萬提高到30萬那財政部從4月18號也開始這項政策"},{"start":9669.506,"end":9684.974,"text":"同時也發信用稿表示各區國稅局為協助受災民眾快速取得激增機關核發的災害損失證明共同修訂提高個人災害損失書面審核金額為新台幣30萬如果申報金額在30萬以下民眾只要"},{"start":9689.557,"end":9714.962,"text":"於申報期限內填報個人災害損失申報表國稅局就會以書面審查不會再派員實地勘查申請災害損失的受理期限從1個月延長到3個月要先感謝部長有看到民眾受災後的不便也修訂了這項26年來從來沒有提高的金額請部長簡短的向民眾宣布一下這項好消息好不好"},{"start":9716.559,"end":9737.089,"text":"謝謝委員的提點跟提案我想這一次的災害地震的災害尤其在花蓮地區還有其他地區的一些民眾都受到一些財產上的損失當然也有部分的人民不小心身亡這個確實是讓大家都很痛心那我想在我們的稅捐機關對於這個受災的一個損失我們當然應該本著從寬從素從優的一個方式來做處理"},{"start":9744.993,"end":9755.96,"text":"因此對於在於書面審核的部分原來是規定15萬以下可以做書面審核以上就要現場勘查那這一次我們就把它提高到30萬災害損失在30萬以下都可以透過書面審核那相關的舉證我們也盡量給予簡化"},{"start":9761.852,"end":9790.708,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":9790.779,"end":9816.23,"text":"好的 謝謝部長部長今天審查娛樂稅法廢止案娛樂稅法是屬於特種消費稅與貨物稅、特種貨物及勞務稅及菸酒稅屬於屬性相同特種消費稅的課徵在已經有一般消費稅或商品及服務稅的存在下"},{"start":9817.672,"end":9821.185,"text":"難拖一頭牛被拖好幾層皮的一個負面評價"},{"start":9822.666,"end":9846.307,"text":"所以我是想要請教部長就是說多年來有很多位的立法委員在修法指出娛樂稅、貨物稅、印花稅這三項不合時宜的稅制應該予以廢除那前行政院長蘇貞昌當時也曾主動提示要廢除但是至今卻毫無進展那其中印花稅、娛樂稅一年的稅收"},{"start":9847.208,"end":9874.036,"text":"大約是170億元是地方政府非常重要的稅收來源那地方政府認為這不應該刪除當然地方政府的反對是因為中央政府如果能夠有相等的一個補足或者是一個刪除的部分來提供地方政府的一個相等的一個稅額那這樣的話其實地方政府是沒有反對的一個"},{"start":9876.616,"end":9903.846,"text":"議件我想要請教部長因為未來財政部還是莊部長你在帶領你在掌管那財政部會不會在520前將娛樂稅法廢止法律的廢止都必須要經過立法院統一那我想剛剛委員也提到了幾項賦稅第一個印花稅的部分其實一年大概收入有171那對地方政府來說是一個非常重要的一個裁員"},{"start":9905.216,"end":9926.623,"text":"我想這個部分已經說明所以他們也不贊同要廢止那至於娛樂今天我們討論的娛樂稅的部分一年大概差不多19億的一個收入那對地方來說尤其是在縣裡面的鄉鎮如果鄉鎮市收取的都是歸這個鄉鎮市那這個金額呢在中央也許看起來是這樣但是在地方來說它是一個非常重要的一個財源"},{"start":9927.603,"end":9950.075,"text":"同時,地方也需要有一個財政自主的一個空間。財政自主的空間,那並不是說我把它廢了,中央給予補助。那其實地方政府其實它要有一個財政自主,讓它可以有一個自主的空間。那然後呢,其實我們對於娛樂稅這件事情,我們也召集了地方政府來開會。那召集地方政府來開會,大家第一個就是"},{"start":9950.835,"end":9976.617,"text":"反對廢止。第二個也就是說在項目裡面因為隨著社會經濟的變化以及娛樂行為的越來越多元那項目可以調整就在第二條的部分項目可以調整至於第五條是規定的那個稅率的上限那稅率的上限其實目前來看他們都是沒有按照最高上限來說而是都是從低課那也許這也可以做一些調整我覺得這個部分大家都有一個這樣的一個看法"},{"start":9977.217,"end":9989.74,"text":"另外就是對於因為各地方政府他的政策目的也不同他的經濟發展情況也不同所以未來也是可以考量賦予地方政府他一個停征的一個權限那讓他們可以考慮他們實質的一個鼓勵的一些對象我想這個部分不廢止的情況下依然可以做一些彈性的調整"},{"start":9999.542,"end":10024.35,"text":"好部長從地方政府的角度來看櫻花稅跟娛樂稅那的部分大概如果停徵或者如果廢止那他的損失大概是平均大概3%啦大概3%那這個對於可能會對地方政府的財政會有一定的困難但是只要有確保在長期可以保本的情況之下中央只要願意拿出國稅的0.5%"},{"start":10026.932,"end":10036.788,"text":"國稅的0.5%就會來補足這一塊在確保財政上的一個保本所以這個部分部長你怎麼看?"},{"start":10038.162,"end":10060.939,"text":"當然以金額來看委員們都有提到那中央就給予補助就好但是對地方來說他仍然希望有財政自主的空間是不是那未來在經濟成長率還有物價上漲率統籌分類款的還有一般性補助款的部分從這邊來做一個補償做一個補助就可以解決這個問題那也避免說一個重複課稅的問題那讓這個"},{"start":10064.702,"end":10093.576,"text":"我們課稅的部分讓民眾認為說我被剝了好幾層皮中央統籌分配稅款的話它是就國稅的部分的稅目然後一定的比例去納入中央統籌分配稅款那目前中央統籌分配稅款在分配給地方政府的部分它是用一定的公式來做計算的不會是因如果說娛樂稅給它廢止的話它也不會在中央統籌分配稅款裡面去做一些調整是"},{"start":10094.329,"end":10094.349,"text":"黃竺偉"},{"start":10103.157,"end":10127.275,"text":"委員好 主委主委好保險法177條的修正主要是針對保險業務員的勞動權益那它攸關的不僅僅是保險業務員的權益更是保護的權益以及保障那同時能避免保險公司假承攬、真僱傭甚至於亂賣這個保險產品請問主委金管會有什麼修法的建議嗎"},{"start":10128.456,"end":10146.213,"text":"我們對於今天177條是持著希望能夠維持現況的一個立場因為在大法官的釋字7400號解釋對於這一塊是希望維持一個有關當事人自行跟公司議定的一個情況去發展"},{"start":10147.492,"end":10170.148,"text":"剛剛很多委員都提到因為保險業務員的權益有關全國40萬的勞工所以本席認為說要修訂除了保險法之外保險業務員管理規則也要同步修法保險業務員的勞動契約、教育訓練、獎審制度還有申訴管道以及有關勞動權益的部分"},{"start":10171.028,"end":10198.51,"text":"禁管會應該要會同勞動部來修訂所以各保險公司制定的這個獎懲辦法對業務員進行的管理不論是業績考核甚至於是納入勞動合約的部分也都假獎懲辦法來管理所以禁管會對於這種亂象你僅僅只是發函給各"},{"start":10200.051,"end":10222.179,"text":"緊請發函給這個保險公會、公司的公然後來進行這個道德勸說讓這個保險業務委員的這個承擔保險業務委員要承擔遭受不合理的一個管考的一個苦果這個主委我想剛剛很多委員都有提到這個問題那我覺得你要來正視這個問題那是不是說我們"},{"start":10225.443,"end":10232.377,"text":"來同意修法來對於我們之後的這些勞動權益跟勞動部來共同來制定這個辦法好不好"},{"start":10233.462,"end":10258.763,"text":"道遠也許有冒犯你的地方但是保險業務院管理規則的使用其實是對於業務員招攬客戶的一個可能的行為太陽對保護的權益影響所做的一個規範就是說勞務契約他跟公司是承攬僱傭這個坦白說我們有介入協調跟勞動部可是要入法可能跟我們金管會去對"},{"start":10259.804,"end":10260.605,"text":"委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":10271.164,"end":10294.757,"text":"再請教主委那針對保險法第146條之四海外投資上限現在是45%那我有看到你們這個我們今天金管會的一個說明那你們也有分別提到說那在目前加計國際版的債券最高可達資金是65.25%"},{"start":10296.698,"end":10324.183,"text":"如果再加上外幣非投資型保單最高國外投資可能可以達到資金的87.75%到去年9月底若再加上國際版債券以及外幣保單在內受選業海外投資規模是22兆,超過22兆那相較於已經是這22兆占海外的一個投資規模占可運用資金70%"},{"start":10327.354,"end":10332.339,"text":"但是相較於受顯實際投資國內公建僅新台幣1300億,佔可用資金的0.38%。我想請教主委,22兆跟1300億這麼大的一個差異,如何鼓勵"},{"start":10345.814,"end":10358.787,"text":"獸行公司對針對國內的公建以及社福的公共設施的投資如何能夠吸引將這些資金引流回到我們國內"},{"start":10359.781,"end":10382.096,"text":"是,委員跟您報告我們在今天報告第八、第九頁都有把歷次我們調整支持的態度包括修法、調降風險係數還有跟跨部會的協調都有列在上面其實剛才也說過其實重點是這些需要公建的單位他可不可以不要編預算而能夠開放有保險業去投資那這個部分其實是按緣的問題我們當然會繼續鼓勵,謝謝"},{"start":10386.755,"end":10401.761,"text":"提供誘因提供誘因是一種方式但是如何讓受選業願意把資金回流到投資國內是我們要必須努力的是我們在努力中繼續加油謝謝謝謝委員謝謝休息五分鐘"},{"start":10804.423,"end":10817.272,"text":"繼續開會接著下一位質詢請賴會員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員賴委員�"},{"start":10833.98,"end":10835.048,"text":"以附設署送署長"},{"start":10840.216,"end":10864.438,"text":"部長好,署長好。我想這個針對的今天就是我們娛樂稅長期就是採取一個一鏡一針的一個態度。其實從第一次,那個娛樂稅的第一次公佈是在民國31年。那在31年開始以後這個過程裡頭只有一次的一個修法。"},{"start":10866.32,"end":10890.674,"text":"我想就是在這個今天我們討論的這個議題裡頭我想跟部長就是說做跟署長做一個探討其實在戒嚴時期老百姓因為我們政府擔心老百姓的一個過度的一個奢侈所以我們用抽稅的方式來就是降低民眾參與就是這些奢侈的一個活動的一個"},{"start":10892.535,"end":10914.687,"text":"但避免奢侈而爭的娛樂稅其實就是現在大部分的民眾的日常活動不管是這個運動比賽還是高爾夫球賽還是舞蹈表演看電影我想在這裡請教部長部長如果這個看電影是在法律的定義是一個奢侈的話你怎麼看待你平常看不看電影"},{"start":10916.195,"end":10919.919,"text":"委員現在娛樂稅是不是還是有奢侈這樣的一個定義倒是也沒有那娛樂稅我也跟委員報告您剛剛提了很多那我們也知道"},{"start":10933.846,"end":10946.199,"text":"除了社會經濟的一個轉化以及娛樂消遣的活動越來越多元那有一些項目是不是適合這一次也在我們去年在邀請各地方政府來開會的時候那也有討論過所以認為部分的課稅項目可以做一些調整"},{"start":10953.286,"end":10953.746,"text":"獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得"},{"start":10983.232,"end":11003.51,"text":"內容有趣的一個演講 這個到底哪一個需要徵收?它的標準在哪裡?你脫口秀要徵這個稅 然後有趣的一個演講不徵 這個說實在的 如果說虛擬偶像的一個線上演唱會 那不徵 然後沒有實體空間的要徵 這個"},{"start":11005.939,"end":11028.855,"text":"此事上都非常地空洞。蔡依林的一個線上活動,他的線上演唱會扣不扣稅?那如果他到小忌憚裡頭去,那是絕對要扣稅。這個差別在哪裡?所以說舊時代的一個法令解釋新時代的一個表演的一個方式,我在這裡要跟部長跟署長講,就是說"},{"start":11030.896,"end":11032.216,"text":"委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":11047.403,"end":11069.098,"text":"議論然後他也實際上就是說真的就是把韓國的這個電影推向了全世界你看他一來他可以推推動他國內的一個觀光然後再來就是說他還可以收海外這麼多的一個版權甚至他把國家的一個形象整體的一個帶動那到底這個文化事業我們要不要課他的稅"},{"start":11072.257,"end":11086.361,"text":"跟委員報告娛樂稅當然是具有娛樂性質的部分然後用事實來認定要不要課稅那您剛剛提到許多的文化事業那我們現在有一些相關的法律比如說文創法還有文化事業補助條例等等"},{"start":11092.003,"end":11114.357,"text":"這些都有一些補助的作用那所以我也跟委員說明就是就如同我剛剛說的就是我們未來呢我們希望我們也跟上次跟地方政府開會的時候大概有一個想法就是說賦予地方政府賦予地方政府有一些他可以他寄他的文化政策的目的或者因為他的他的一個鄉鎮的他的這個地區的一個特性他需要發展的一個項目那麼賦予他們一個停征的權限"},{"start":11117.679,"end":11117.999,"text":"委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":11139.036,"end":11163.848,"text":" ️﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":11163.968,"end":11185.611,"text":"那在未來我們是不是會再看到他跟台灣的業者合作在台灣舉辦這個賽事呢?我想真正的一個問題就是說一、六歲的一個徵收是不是影響這個高爾夫球運動在台灣發展的一個最主要的一個原因?你想這麼大的一個國際賽事可是如果我們"},{"start":11186.452,"end":11187.252,"text":"委員長,你怎麼看待呢?"},{"start":11202.523,"end":11217.721,"text":"報告委員,像高爾夫球這樣的運動其實大家也都是蠻鼓勵的但是當然他使用的高爾夫球場也有一些環保團體有不同的意見但目前我們這種國際性的競賽過去也曾經來跟我們申請解免過稅額"},{"start":11219.142,"end":11219.162,"text":"〔記者註冊〕"},{"start":11238.459,"end":11257.284,"text":"一千多萬的一個減稅其實這個在我們整體國家的一個稅收其實非常非常的少那我們如果晃遠全世界我們再用全世界來看的話就是說我在請問署長就是說高稅率的北歐國家都有優惠的一個稅率了"},{"start":11257.844,"end":11279.118,"text":"所以我們是不是應該要匯儲呢那你們還在一直主張說要收稅那你看從所有北歐的一個國家他其實租稅負擔一向是最高的喔不管是荷蘭不管是就是整體這些北歐的國家那你們其實也非常的一個清楚就是說這個文化跟娛樂活動"},{"start":11280.339,"end":11281.54,"text":"委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":11301.496,"end":11302.557,"text":"議員,因為娛樂稅本身它是地方稅,那在非直轄市的縣市這個稅它是屬於鄉鎮稅。"},{"start":11325.939,"end":11349.632,"text":"那深圳稅對他來講是一個非常重要的財源,也許我也不覺得金額不大,但對他來說就夠了。可是其實他的金額並不大,如果中央可以補助的話,那是不是我們就可以完整的把這一個問題來解決呢?每年收不到20億,你的統籌分配款就可以來補這些啊。我們看看,其實在六都裡頭還有其他的縣市裡頭,我們看得出來,"},{"start":11351.753,"end":11378.144,"text":"其實這一個收到的一個稅款是非常非常的少為什麼我們不要面對的這個問題呢甚至就是說部長我想這個稅收的一個占比這麼低成本多出了一個10倍那你還需要這麼多人來做這些事情不管就是你的印花稅你的這個所有的一個稅然後把它框在一塊要用這麼多的一個成本你覺得划得來嗎"},{"start":11379.845,"end":11398.782,"text":"委員就您這個上面的powerpoint在看出來就一塊錢大概它的成本是0.17%0.17我想這個部分要明確對用新北市嘛121年的預算嘛是是是是啊但是雖然金額不高但對地方政府來說它是一個重要的財源然後呢"},{"start":11399.202,"end":11400.583,"text":"﹚立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第11次全體委員會提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":11418.012,"end":11435.981,"text":" ️﹏﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":11436.261,"end":11437.001,"text":"委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":11456.77,"end":11473.89,"text":"有沒有可能變多呢?所以這個我希望就是說你可以提出這樣的一個評估報告給本席然後評估就是聽證以後是不是會影響地方的自有財源那可以不可以用統籌這個第一條你說是不可以的嘛"},{"start":11474.29,"end":11475.03,"text":"接下來請王宏威、王委員質詢。"},{"start":11507.866,"end":11509.128,"text":"主席黃主委"},{"start":11520.746,"end":11541.735,"text":"主委今天針對這個保險法但是有兩個部分的修正其中一個就是有關於這個對保險業對國外投資的這個上限他是不是有下降的空間那麼我也看到你們的報告裡面呢也"},{"start":11542.815,"end":11549.861,"text":"寫了洋洋灑灑就是包含我們現在受險業的投資的標的還有在整個的歷史上過去為什麼逐步的去調高他對這個海外投資的上限不過我覺得我們今天討論這個問題其實主要有一個重點就是我們保險業的資金其實非常非常的多非常高"},{"start":11568.715,"end":11586.191,"text":"那當然在尤其前一陣子ETF發行的時候雖然現在很多他們都淨值事實上是虧損的那可是那個時候大家去封ETF也顯示出國內的投資的管道跟工具不足"},{"start":11587.192,"end":11614.694,"text":"但是我們如何去導引這樣子的一個公共性的資金就是保險業的資金能夠導向公共建設其實是在這一次條文修正它的一個希望的一個目標但是我也從你們的報告看到我覺得這個金額事實上讓我也覺得非常訝異在你們的報告裡面去提到我們受險業的資金在"},{"start":11615.675,"end":11616.216,"text":"公共及社會福利事業之投資金額"},{"start":11636.071,"end":11650.775,"text":"還有包含加計以不動場、地上權形式辦理的公共投資金額以及以有價證券方式投資公共建設的金額全部加起來也只有5900億"},{"start":11656.644,"end":11664.96,"text":"所以如果對照我們保險業目前實際去投資在公共建設不管他用什麼樣的形式"},{"start":11666.52,"end":11694.821,"text":"對照我們的資金的規模實在是九牛之一毛杯水車薪所以我想請教主委我看到你們對於這個條文你們還是持反對意見可是如何把受險業的資金保險業的資金導向公共建設顯然看起來它的空間非常非常非常非常我可以把它乘以10倍乘以100倍"},{"start":11696.162,"end":11708.551,"text":"非常之多。所以是過去沒有做嗎?還是到底出現什麼樣問題?為什麼保險院資金就是沒有辦法導入公共建設呢?"},{"start":11709.451,"end":11727.786,"text":"其實今天報告點了兩個重點第一個重點保險資金的運用不是錢投到哪裡就叫運用它的年期跟它的收益率要跟它的負債面保單要匹配那這部分先要確定這個標的有沒有辦法匹配期限夠不夠長第二個有沒有做努力"},{"start":11728.527,"end":11752.213,"text":"我們在第八、第九頁列了很多我們努力的地方提高它的控制的比例降低它的風險係數所以重點是有沒有足夠的案源然後這個案源提供的報酬率是不是符合保險業的期待好 所以你講到一個重點沒有案源它就無法去作為它的投資標的時間暫停一下我請一下我們的財政部部長請莊部長"},{"start":11758.126,"end":11778.729,"text":"委員好剛剛主委認為他有一個重點是有沒有第一個他有這個投資的這個時間因為保險業都是長期資金他長期資金他也要做長期投資還有他基本上他有沒有穩健的收益對不對所以案源不足那所以"},{"start":11779.83,"end":11797.667,"text":"我們如何增加這個案源而且呢可以符合我們的一個政策的目標我記得哈在前我忘了幾個禮拜前我們這邊也有一個專案報告我們才會專案報告當時花俊勤次長好那時候花俊勤次長"},{"start":11798.308,"end":11810.785,"text":"他提到了就是要把資金導入社宅社會住宅那麼呢可以討論發行綠色債券那麼部長也說這個可以做跨部會討論那麼部長"},{"start":11814.97,"end":11830.388,"text":"這就是剛才講的我們為什麼沒有辦法把保險業資金導入公共建設岸源不足那麼你們所講的社宅就是提供給社宅資金的綠色災艦你們現在到底進度為何"},{"start":11834.225,"end":11856.171,"text":"跟委員報告就我們來說公共建設加速的建設然後提供好的公共服務是大家所期待的那麼透過民間的資金來做這個建設應該的速度會加快所以我們也很希望保險業的資金能夠進入到公共建設所以我們在促參司的部分促參法的修正第一個我們擴大公共建設的一個範圍第二個部分呢"},{"start":11858.772,"end":11859.433,"text":"委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復"},{"start":11881.493,"end":11909.01,"text":"所以他有一個穩定的資金收入第三個我們每年都會辦招商大會所以我們在今年會辦7月這就是釋出案源的方式所以你不承認案源不足嗎?案源的部分我們今年7月也每年都會辦公共建設那剛剛也提到就是說當然這個公共建設年期跟收入都有跟他的保單要相合其實老實講我覺得現在我們很多的公共建設資產力不足啦"},{"start":11909.85,"end":11934.879,"text":"所以沒有辦法成為案員不過這個是一個很大的問題我們現在很多自產率根本不足嘛我曾經提過像我們前瞻建設你前瞻建設裡面像我們做這個屏東棒球場那自產率極低無比低到100年之後才能夠回收它就沒有辦法成為一個穩定的案員但是我現在要問你的是這個是在前禮拜有講到的"},{"start":11935.859,"end":11963.616,"text":"就是比如說你新建社會住宅我認為新建社會住宅是可以導入保險業資金的它有自償性啊那麼這個綠色債券你們也許因為現在520馬上就到你留任現在內政部長不留任今晚會主委不留任也許你們這個時候也沒有辦法談所以我想請問一下這個講的比如說像以針對社會住宅的綠色債券你留任嘛你會推動嗎"},{"start":11965.338,"end":11993.477,"text":"跟我們報告社會住宅這個你所謂發行公債這個部分那因為涉及到住都中心的設置條例還有證券交易法規的一個釋法性這個部分我們會跟內政部再來做討論所以這個政策還是會繼續執行至少在於你因為我說內政部長4次要下台啦花慶群也不一定留下來啊我不管我覺得這個部分該做的工作還是要做都有延續性的那要研議的我們也持續會研議另外喔"},{"start":11993.957,"end":11996.118,"text":"時間關係剛才有很多委員談到娛樂稅當然你們的理由就是說因為娛樂稅是地方的稅源那地方對地方很重要有時候鄉鎮也很重要其實我有個具體建議也許你們去問問地方的這些政府"},{"start":12011.266,"end":12036.898,"text":"搞不好他們認為不重要啊只有你們在一直覺得搞不好他們認為說對他們來講事實上是可以只要能夠促進地方的這些產業的活動他可能帶來的商機更多他可能收入更多所以也許你們可以去問問地方政府否則只有你中央講重要重要這個錢收回來也不是你中央在用是地方在用可能搞不好地方政府真的覺得沒有那麼重要啦"},{"start":12037.958,"end":12043.699,"text":"好 那時間暫停 部長可以先請回那個主委先留下來"},{"start":12045.25,"end":12069.919,"text":"好,我要繼續談的就是剛講保險法另外的一個部分就是呢包含我還有其他的委員提到的保險法第177條的修正那剛才我在做提案說明的時候也有講我覺得這個過去其實討論的非常非常多也都有跨黨派的委員提出來"},{"start":12071.019,"end":12093.78,"text":"那麼對我們今晚會來講堅持的是今晚會管的是保險業管的是保險業對投資人保險業對消費者但是呢你覺得對員工的部分你把他推向說這個就是勞動部的事情這個是勞資雙方的事情今晚會是不用管的可是問題是我剛講保險"},{"start":12097.847,"end":12100.069,"text":"議員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":12117.802,"end":12140.461,"text":"他明明應該是僱傭但是呢他事實上是用承攬的方式然後呢用什麼用部分工時然後規定說你一個禮拜你必須一天你必須進來幾個小時一兩個小時給你這種部分工時的方式或者這些契約可以變來變去所以我認為啊"},{"start":12141.542,"end":12164.624,"text":"如果沒有穩定的勞資關係如果保險業務員是長期在不公平的勞務契約下在進行的那當然很難你看很多就是也許大家說哎就怪到保險業務員為了要他的這個佣金也好或者要他的業績也好就出現了反過來傷害投資人傷害"},{"start":12167.146,"end":12186.502,"text":"這些消費者的這些事件所以在金管會我們的其實我們的調整也是要求就是由我們的金管會主管機關會同勞動部來定之這個部分我真的不曉得為什麼主委金管會永遠要拒人於千里之外"},{"start":12189.297,"end":12213.097,"text":"這個議題很久了而且其實我們也在跟勞動部一起去協調兩個工會的一些起義也有一些進展包括那個有關賞罰的問題也建立了雙層的這種獨島的機制我們有在努力了但是這裡面真的牽涉到那顯然努力不夠嘛為什麼他們這麼多年他們都一直在爭取希望我們的金管會希望我們主管機關給這些業務員一點點關愛的眼神而你們卻不願意"},{"start":12216.365,"end":12217.466,"text":"接著請黃珊珊黃委員12點可以開放用時"},{"start":12253.019,"end":12274.716,"text":"請莊部長還有黃主委。請莊部長、黃主委。是,委員好。我想部長跟主委,其實我也是這一次第一次到立法院來,但是我看到今天財委會的兩個案子應該是在立法院都討論不知道多少年了,對吧?"},{"start":12275.506,"end":12275.786,"text":"一、一、一、一、一、一、一、一、一、"},{"start":12299.324,"end":12309.849,"text":"娛樂稅討論多久了?跟委員報告娛樂稅確實有討論的時間然後但是呢我們其實在去年的時候邀請地方政府開會所以地方政府又不同意是嗎?第一個他們是反對廢止的這是第一個那第二個當然娛樂稅的部分項目隨著社會經濟發展的調還有娛樂項目的多元化項目是可以做一些調整就是要課娛樂稅的項目那第三個稅率的部分的上限也可以考慮調整"},{"start":12326.098,"end":12326.959,"text":"我問過說到底財政部檢討了多久從"},{"start":12345.888,"end":12372.522,"text":"蔡英文政府在2019年提過廢除印花稅那到娛樂稅到剛剛講可能還有貨物稅其實財政部一直都在檢討不是嗎這個部分我們會要尋求大家的一個共識重點是今天的娛樂稅在現在這樣的狀況下兩黨甚至三黨的大概都朝向廢除的立場所以我要問的是雖然"},{"start":12374.002,"end":12397.371,"text":"這個廢除它的金額總金額大概一年改18、9億占中央政府時中的金額比例112年大概比例只有占到0.05%其實算是非常小的錢但是對於地方政府的確是比大錢尤其是鄉鎮市政府所以我在意的是不管稅怎麼廢我希望知道的是有沒有替代財源部長你同意吧"},{"start":12398.52,"end":12426.95,"text":"當然您提的也是第一個替代財源第二個這是地方稅我們還是要尊重地方政府部長我今天知道您盡量可能會留任所以我想把這個責任也要交給您要廢除相關稅額我希望能夠幫地方政府多爭取替代稅源尤其是替代財源讓他們不至於因為稅制改革而受到影響這個是地方政府需要的另外就是在財化法的部分本席該表台灣民眾黨也提出了財化法的修正草案"},{"start":12427.43,"end":12449.489,"text":"我們也希望說不要影響到地方政府的財政自主但是同時能夠讓它分配比較公平這兩個事情應該拉在一起看包括今天的娛樂稅法部長這是我們很懇切的要求我們不希望在下一屆立法院再拿同樣的案子再出來討論一次這個案子已經很久了同樣的"},{"start":12451.612,"end":12478.746,"text":"剛剛講的這個娛樂稅廢止之後它的整個的影響其實廢你說大也很大少也很少但是畢竟已經21世紀了已經2024年了娛樂稅在2007年修正過到現在也十幾年沒修了而且藝人表演、球賽它還在收這種很奇怪的稅我覺得我們應該要重新檢討"},{"start":12480.168,"end":12504.873,"text":"不是只有單單說地方政府可以自主就可以了如果中華民國朝向一個稅制進步的地方我們應該把這些應該要做相關的檢討而不是單純說只是地方的稅源我們沒辦法處理另外去找到錢可能是財政部另外一個責任部長這是您的責任尤其是如果您留任的話這個我希望從總指軍到現在我們都希望看到"},{"start":12505.513,"end":12527.424,"text":"財政部對於稅制改革有一些積極的立場包括印花稅包括貨物稅所以部長我希望在這個案子不管立法院通不通過我希望財政部都能夠在一個月之內針對娛樂稅如果被廢除他的替代財源還有他的稅制改革我希望你們有一些態度跟立場可以嗎"},{"start":12532.308,"end":12545.119,"text":"主委,我們今天的題目是保險業務,剛剛很多委員都已經提過了。我想問一下,為什麼這個案子你也說很久了,那我們為什麼要在同一個地方討論同樣的題目,繼續這麼久?"},{"start":12548.809,"end":12566.22,"text":"律意上保險法是涵蓋企業法跟業務我們當初有保險業務院管理規則是對他招攬行為去做管理但是這個入法的目的﹖但是對於他跟勞動部去會同他們的相關的權利跟義務請勞動部跟你們一起溝通這樣有什麼困難嗎?"},{"start":12567.02,"end":12567.04,"text":"請勞動部"},{"start":12593.179,"end":12596.783,"text":"我們所有的勞工都應該是勞動部所保護的對象,不是嗎?"},{"start":12598.289,"end":12625.643,"text":"所以我們的各行各業都有不同的業別有不同的工作型態有不同的司法的契約各種狀況都有但是勞動部最基本的保障跟基本的勞動條件應該是勞動部所主管如果保險業務員他在目前為止有一部分可能是用勞基法有一部分他可能簽了合約也有混同合約有各種不同類型的合約勞動部真的不用管嗎"},{"start":12627.157,"end":12643.219,"text":"根委員報告就如同剛剛委員所述我們現在各行各業不同的產業可能依著他的產業有一些特殊或者管制必要有部分的工作者的確他會這個有別於勞動基準我們勞動部主管的是各行各業"},{"start":12643.699,"end":12670.012,"text":"今天這個法條的修正只有一個目標就是希望經管會去找勞動部討論討論修正修正我們沒有要經管會馬上改變你們所有管轄的內容我們只是在法條上面希望你們跟勞動部來會同討論、辦理、修正內容這個修法並沒有明確的要求但是經管會連跟勞動部討論都不願意啊主委"},{"start":12671.178,"end":12695.552,"text":"報告委員 這個可能不是事實 那個黃副司長我們過去很多跟兩個工人的工跟公司的工的工會都有在討論來來來主委那我就唸給你聽啦 這個修正條文很簡單啦177條保險業務員的資格取得登錄、撤銷或廢止登錄工作條件、教育訓練、懲處、申訴管道及其他攸關勞動權益事項之規則由主管機關會同勞動部定之"},{"start":12699.514,"end":12720.356,"text":"如此而已這個法授權希望勞動部門能夠來跟金管會協助協調有關保險業務員他的相關的權利跟義務這個並沒有去僭越剛講的大法官的解釋也沒有僭越你們所謂的契約自由的規定我的意思是他只是希望能夠讓勞動單位"},{"start":12721.897,"end":12747.273,"text":"能夠了解這個行業能夠提供他們的意見來會同你們修正所謂的管理規則這才是這個修法的主要的意志這個修法我不覺得有你剛剛講的那些困難啦我只是認為說連這麼簡單的修法都要完全抵抗我也不太明白為什麼所以主委你們的態度是什麼經管會的態度就是連跟勞動部討論都不願意是嗎"},{"start":12749.836,"end":12764.986,"text":"我們是有跟勞動部討論但是要入法去訂金管會的勞動條件要去明訂我覺得這個是有基本價值的差異的問題但是如果立法院通過了這個還是得做吧我想今天就是一個很好的開始"},{"start":12765.926,"end":12791.451,"text":"任何法案的修正都需要大家共同的研商至於保險業務員他本身簽了什麼樣的合約合約的內容他應該都可以理解只是我們要保障一些他的工作條件而已我相信這個部分不是要去抵觸他們本身跟公司之間的企業自由而是要讓他有一個基本的工作條件的保障我想今天這兩個法案都不應該在"},{"start":12793.672,"end":12820.809,"text":"討論好幾屆然後到新的國會又來總理討論那這一屆大概是唯一一次有機會通過因為三黨不過半加上這個兩個法案我看三黨都提出相關的版本這個通過的機率是很高的所以兩位首長雖然黃主委已經可能要離任但是可能都需要各單位把這件事情正視而不要讓它成為這一屆國會又沒辦法處理下一屆國會要重來的法案"},{"start":12822.096,"end":12835.148,"text":"主委,雖然您要離職,我覺得這個事情也是重要的,好嗎?好,謝謝委員。好,莊部長,同樣的問題,剛剛講的,我這邊有一個簡單的案子,它其實很多自用住宅的"},{"start":12837.449,"end":12837.749,"text":"議員王世堅等"},{"start":12867.829,"end":12885.354,"text":"這個案子很清楚就是如果我已經住了7個月我爸爸過世了然後我9月之前忘記去申請我就一整年都沒有優惠了所以我們希望說民眾其實很簡單當他家人過世沒有人會搞得清楚什麼時候要去申請自用住宅用地的優惠"},{"start":12886.374,"end":12908.065,"text":"所以之前在民國87年的時候其實曾經有過臺北市陳水扁當市長的時候曾經重新核定過可是後來在整個不管是負稅署也好或財政部也好就再也沒有同意民眾能夠優惠了所以我只希望這是一個簡單的事情但是法令非常的死"},{"start":12914.408,"end":12929.174,"text":"我只希望能夠提供一個簡正、便民的方案讓家裡有人過世然後他可能沒有來得及在9月22號以前去申請自用住宅的他有機會再獲得按照他的實際使用的年齡"},{"start":12931.638,"end":12950.399,"text":"月份來做比例的扣除。部長,這個可以做到吧?好,這個部分我們再來瞭解一下這個案的實際情形看一下法規。它可能不是只有個案,它可能將來是一個同案。但是大部分的民眾因為忽略了或還在傷心痛苦的時候沒有去申請而造成了喪失一整年的"},{"start":12951.34,"end":12961.372,"text":"幼惠的所謂自用住宅的幼惠的地價稅我想這個部分署長我們可以在會後再把個案交給你但是我覺得要訂出一個未來的方案"},{"start":12964.69,"end":12990.397,"text":"不過委員因為目前在辦計程的時候一般地方稅計的機會會提醒計程人他要去變更那個自用住宅就補辦那個自用住宅的等級我覺得要給人家補救的機會啦好不好提醒是一回事補救的機會很重要因為主要是現在地價稅是按年課徵的關係啦所以因為個案也不多嘛你就讓他有補救的機會有機會那一整年他可以按比例來優惠好嗎好請財政部給我一個報告謝謝好謝謝謝謝"},{"start":12997.952,"end":13000.293,"text":"下一位歡迎陳玉珍陳委員請莊部長"},{"start":13014.639,"end":13022.491,"text":"委員好 這個我們金門地區這個在因為缺水嘛 很乾旱 那水如果從這個台灣本島運過去的話 非常貴而且環不濟急嘛 原水救不了進火"},{"start":13029.4,"end":13029.82,"text":"議員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":13054.369,"end":13055.009,"text":"議員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":13081.304,"end":13081.545,"text":"但是呢,"},{"start":13095,"end":13110.918,"text":"自來水這個東西事實上不應該是地方政府的自治事項我們承擔民生供水對中央政府來講對我們來講是很不公平全台灣的水怎麼來誰付錢這都是中央的事情"},{"start":13111.539,"end":13128.11,"text":"我們是離島啊因為我們自己缺水中央的水從台灣過來實際上也很不划算我們為了要有水我們從大陸買水進水做這些設備我們要自己出錢那這個當初中央是說由我們先出跟財政部借錢經濟部再電還給我們這個您了解這個背景嗎"},{"start":13132.292,"end":13158.009,"text":"現在我們就欠你們這個地方建設基金2.4億嗎?基本憲政我就欠財政部2.4億嗎?目前是2.4億欠你們錢啊但是地方建設基金在你們財政部跟國發會主計總部溝通109年的時候地方建設基金要解編嘛猜測猜測對就是沒有這個基金嘛那現在變成我們就要還你們2.4億啊"},{"start":13160.185,"end":13160.986,"text":"議員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":13190.605,"end":13192.928,"text":"這個基金嘛,現在叫我們一次還,怎麼辦呢?報告齁,當時金門向地方建設基金來貸款的時候已經簽了最長是5年的貸款期那也陸陸續續也都在還,所以最後現在到1月9號還差2.4億"},{"start":13212.549,"end":13235.974,"text":"所以這個部分呢建設基金雖然109年裁撤但是呢他到最他還是陸續在該還的還是要還還是要還但是不是跟建設並不因為建設基金裁撤所以你才要還這2.4而是原來就是因為貸款的合約是5年這樣的一個情況所以跟因為這個涉及到經濟部嘛那經部要慢慢的給我們錢讓我們來還你們嘛本來是這個樣子嘛"},{"start":13238.334,"end":13260.101,"text":"當然這不是只有你們這個部的事情但是你看在財政委員會我也常跟這個主計總處這邊講你看我跟主席這邊那個講過多少次我說我們就現在財政不好沒有錢嘛不像說以前那麼有錢沒有錢嘛叫他說把我們的這個財政這個花分降一點不要從三級降到五級讓我們可以少支出一點嘛他說你們很有錢我們現在欠你們2.4億還不出來怎麼辦勒"},{"start":13264.443,"end":13279.597,"text":"沒辦法還啊沒辦法還不會啦金門縣政府的財政狀況應該還不錯你們不能一直說因為我們很有錢所以什麼東西就這樣本來這個是中央要做的事情水這個東西在水上給你們以前電也是我們自己負責啦我們以前是金門電廠"},{"start":13280.738,"end":13301.074,"text":"水現在還是我們金門自來水廠那什麼那個金大如果沒有錢我們要幫忙出錢金門醫院沒有錢我們要幫忙出錢金門都要附帶一個中央政府應該做的事情你是要支持我們金門獨立嗎我想不是啦我想當時這個都有一個計畫在執行然後經濟部他也有編列預算做前額的補助"},{"start":13301.374,"end":13319.394,"text":" ️﹏"},{"start":13319.474,"end":13324.697,"text":"對,這個我們在地方首長會跟這個張景森政委也有討論這件事情我知道,你們也在那個第11首長聯繫匯報也有提案有提這個案子那你們也要考慮,也要整體考慮當然因為不是你一個人的事情,也要整體考慮"},{"start":13336.884,"end":13337.885,"text":"議員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":13360.957,"end":13360.977,"text":"繼續再見!"},{"start":13382.608,"end":13410.397,"text":"大學喔醫院喔金門現在都貼錢欸連金門大橋我們都自己貼錢下去啊什麼都貼錢啊我們是為了金門的建設發展啊不得已自己都知道我們熱井酷待很辛苦還喝高粱酒好謝謝來下一個進水對不對這個我們不是從大陸進口水嗎那進口水這個進來呢這個水本來就是應該中央政府要做現在我們地方政府自己來做那這個我們還要繳納這個營業稅"},{"start":13413.081,"end":13438.397,"text":"這個不合理吧?你看喔雖然這個錢不是很多啦幾百萬啦那你看我們這個相關的這個加值型及非加值型營業稅法第九條、第九條之一有講進口以下貨物免徵營業稅你看其中有一個因應經濟特殊狀況調節物資進口那時候小麥、大麥、玉米、黃豆這一種都是民生必需嘛那水是不是民生必需?"},{"start":13440.018,"end":13457.906,"text":"跟委員報告因為營業稅是屬於一般的消費稅在銷售的時候都會要課正營業稅那水要賣給誰啊?水就是金門縣政府給百姓為了要一定的價錢跟台灣的百姓一樣的水價嘛所以金門縣政府自己進了水進來還要貼錢還要自己做什麼水廠"},{"start":13461.748,"end":13478.998,"text":"對嗎?全部都自己貼,那這個雖然這個稅是幾百萬而已,但這個也是可以在裡頭修法裡頭,像你看那個如果大麥、小麥、玉米、黃豆這些都可以激動的調整,金門這個水應該也可以激動調整啊,因為這是民生必需品啊,不是拿來賣的啊,不是拿來賺錢的啊。"},{"start":13480.058,"end":13504.276,"text":"是,那但對於有關這個虧損的部分那經濟部也編列了預算來做撥補我知道,那編列預算就編的比較慢啊我們先墊錢,剛剛我前面前提跟你說過了嗎所以我們中間要墊很多錢啊然後你們要叫我們趕快一次還我們又現在還不起啊所以我們可以各個地方可以省的要讓我們省嘛而且這個是符合照顧民生經濟啊你可以考慮一下這個是民生經濟啊這個不是說,而且水嘛"},{"start":13505.237,"end":13506.779,"text":"委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":13520.974,"end":13541.223,"text":"因為水市必需品長期都要用的。對,但是你可以再,我們可以多一項啊。多一項啊。水市民生必需品,而且這本來就是中央應該負責的。事實上如果沒有也是,那個到時候經濟部他要再貼錢進來嘛。那你何必這樣子。你們兩個不會可能要協調一下。"},{"start":13541.903,"end":13559.48,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":13559.639,"end":13584.306,"text":"沒有啊,離島接觸條例已經有相關的就金門水廠案這個本島的這個部分的話都可以有相關的補貼啊好,那你就用那個當法源讓我們這個營業稅免徵嘛你就把那個當法源就可以了那可以啊,如果你這樣同意我不修法我也可以同意啦不一樣的是不多錢啦,一年大概幾百萬啦但是也是對地區影響很大不一樣的,是是是我的意思說原則啦哪一、修在哪裡我都可以但是原則就是說"},{"start":13585.807,"end":13607.364,"text":"這個民生基本民生的需要水啊、電啊這些都是中央政府應該負擔的不然就是我到時候不然諮詢院長請他把水廠收過去當台灣水廠不要做基本以前我們電也是這樣全部都我們自己出嘛在台灣的話水跟電也是要課營業稅的啦在水跟電都要課在台灣我知道但是我的意思是說這個東西"},{"start":13609.105,"end":13636.472,"text":"因為臺灣科反正是經濟部在出的嘛,都是你們臺灣自來水公司啊,那個都臺灣的都是政府的,我們都地方政府自己出啊,我想因為大部分在場都不了解,所有東西金門的什麼水啊這些東西醫療啊教育什麼都要自己出錢,不能說自己很有錢要求條項什麼都也不願意,那個部長請給我們多多支持好嗎?委員我想這個部分還是要通盤的考量,對你通盤的考量一下在如果院會裡頭,幫我們多說一下吧。"},{"start":13638.633,"end":13645.559,"text":"我們再考量是謝謝委員多多考量好嗎多多考量是吧謝謝謝謝現在請楊瓊英楊委員謝主席召委本席發言邀請部長請莊部長"},{"start":13671.052,"end":13672.233,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":13689.925,"end":13702.69,"text":"這個詐騙貨物但是依照我們現在關稅法第64條規定要申請退稅的這個部分也沒有辦法依照同條的第51條重法的第51條來申請這個退換豁免稅那考量的民眾他都已經被詐騙了已經有金錢的一個損失"},{"start":13714.375,"end":13730.824,"text":"那如果稅費又不允許民眾來申請退還的話那無意義就是對於民眾造成惡度的傷害那也跟國家組成了一個國家打詐隊跟國家在打詐保護民眾的權益呢"},{"start":13732.165,"end":13733.686,"text":"關稅署可否研擬制定詐騙查核的標準?"},{"start":13751.826,"end":13765.648,"text":"如果說消費者他可以舉證確實他是遭受到這個詐騙那應該是可以辦理退稅、退貨齁那在這樣的情況之下關稅局可以來做退還的工作"},{"start":13767.667,"end":13782.012,"text":"委員謝謝 這個部分我們也很重視就是民眾遭到網購詐騙的話那對於已繳的關稅的部分要怎麼樣來做更便民的處理那這個部分關務署已經在研議了已經在研議中了那怎麼研議呢好請署長說明"},{"start":13785.922,"end":13807.075,"text":"跟委員報告我們會簡化相關的程序就目前關稅法部分沒有辦法去適用的部分我們用行政規則的方式去簡化相關的程序對這個就是政府應該要做的來再請說明那我們現在在會各官執行上的一些意見那預計大概一個月內就可以發佈相關的措施"},{"start":13807.495,"end":13822.574,"text":"一個月內之內可以發布嗎?因為這個是現在地球村的無國界民眾我們要保護他那但是他的舉證在這樣的情況那你一個月後預計要公告的是什麼內容呢?"},{"start":13824.877,"end":13850.812,"text":"就是目前這個退稅的部分如果是詐騙的話怎麼去舉證的問題那我們會比照金管會相關的一個規定就是說如果他有跟警政署報案提案的話那我們就會處理官方認證是是是那要證明說這個所謂的貨物的確是網購進來的一些市政那要民眾來提出證明"},{"start":13852.193,"end":13879.535,"text":"那其他的大概就是一些比較細節的程序部分都會把它簡化掉來讓本來不符合關稅法的規定可以透過這樣的一個行政規則來簡便民眾來退稅對 這個就是本期一直追蹤一直關心因為民眾啊太多了太多了而且很痛苦那我們要解決他的問題所以我們一個月內就會公佈嘛是"},{"start":13880.015,"end":13880.295,"text":"議員王世堅等"},{"start":13897.941,"end":13923.748,"text":"是,好,我也希望部長,這個署長談這樣這是我們要為人民所做的那我也希望在你一個月內要公布的時候你應該要宣傳,對不對一定要宣傳,你不要只有在你的網站上面公告沒人知道不行,一定要宣傳,好不好我就夾住你,暫許這件事情一定要解決民眾的痛苦那麼一定要好好的宣傳,好不好"},{"start":13925.088,"end":13952.084,"text":"接下來本席要跟你討論的是關稅法第49條的免稅規定本席一直關心因為我們是整個地球村你到各地去買東西一定會買東西大家互相的交流在這樣的一個情況之下我們主要是要符合國際的慣例公眾利益以及計增成本的考量所以給予進口貨物的免稅"},{"start":13953.965,"end":13966.277,"text":"該條的第三項特別規定授權訂定入境旅客攜帶行李物品檢驗稅放辦法所定的入境旅客攜帶的行李免稅額度我們從1989年修訂到現在"},{"start":13973.143,"end":13980.611,"text":"部長1989年到現在這樣幾年了?1989年現在幾年了?我們只有兩萬塊這個免稅額度我們現在已經要調整到三萬五千而且相關的規定已經在預告當中了我們30年沒有檢討我們跟不上國際的腳步我舉例"},{"start":13995.766,"end":14025.092,"text":"日本它的免稅額是20萬的日元大概就是4萬3左右日本年輕國家都4萬3了我也知道大家很關心你們也在努力預計要什麼時候公告啊已經預告了預告到什麼時候要執行在6月底之前就會發布實施6月底開始執行之嘛那但是部長你們現在公告的這個免稅額多少"},{"start":14025.848,"end":14027.49,"text":"我們不只收集日本,也收集其他鄰近國家。"},{"start":14044.752,"end":14066.312,"text":"對,我們這個金額應該算是合宜啦部長你再去思考啦那署長也在這邊因為大家很關心整個地球村我們要怎麼樣讓我們跟國際可以充分的互動我覺得這個是非常重要的所以我們現在預告到6月底來執行資是從30年沒有調的2萬塊"},{"start":14069.274,"end":14090.471,"text":"來到3萬5千塊本期具體建議6月底開始執行我們再執行一段時間因為通盤的關係如果有必要我們再來提升好不好徐君晉進來提升好不好徐君晉進來提升好不好徐君晉進來提升好不好徐君晉進來提升好不好徐君晉進來提升好不好徐君晉進來提升好不好徐君晉進來提升好不好"},{"start":14101.768,"end":14104.47,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請莊部長莊部長請委員好部長好部長不管不分朝野的委員都對於說現在所謂的娛樂稅感到說真的已經有不合時宜的感覺為什麼因為這個是民國31年8年抗戰時期就開徵的娛樂稅現在有82年的歷史"},{"start":14128.254,"end":14155.976,"text":"那娛樂稅當然經過這樣子的一個時空環境變化不同其實以前的娛樂稅以前大家會認為是說這個相對來講已經是這種富裕的時候才有辦法使用的一個稅到現在感覺是小確幸啦就民眾看個電影啊民眾去這個看個表演啊其實這個是生活的一個條式而且文化部等相關的部會我們也都鼓勵說大家應該要多參與"},{"start":14157.179,"end":14171.429,"text":"那本席現在看到是說這個財政部還是覺得說搖頭啊覺得說廢除娛樂稅不可不不不一樣本席好奇啊過去我們要調整或是修改哪一個稅制的時候財政部有點頭過的"},{"start":14174.306,"end":14198.163,"text":"委員報告娛樂稅是屬於地方稅所以我們要尊重地方政府的意見所以財政部也邀請了地方政府一起來討論地方政府都反對只有一個地方政府認為可以其他地方政府都反對廢止娛樂稅但是也如同剛剛委員所說的比如說有一些的娛樂項目在今天的一個社會環境情況下"},{"start":14199.964,"end":14223.344,"text":"是不是還要再課徵娛樂稅這個是可以檢討也就是課稅項目可以做檢討第二個部分對稅率的部分目前第五條是規定了各項各個課稅項目的一個稅率的上限那目前實務上的地方政府都是從低課徵那所以在上限的部分也可以做調整那第三個我們也要考量到地方政府事實上他因為他有他的政策目的他想要推廣"},{"start":14223.985,"end":14224.005,"text":"部長"},{"start":14251.943,"end":14277.715,"text":"本席沒有打斷你的回答時間但你還是沒有回答我的問題啊是什麼時候我們要調整任何一個稅率的時候財政部有點頭同意的?好像也沒有嘛我們也只有這樣吧來,部長本席是區域委員啊所以你不用說拿地方政府來好像督我的嘴啊我當然知道說地方的財政不容易啊我當然知道說地方政府都也希望是說能夠有更多的這個援額啊但實在話說啊"},{"start":14279.076,"end":14306.089,"text":"中央在運用中央我們也會之後會討論這個財政收支劃分法如果說中央收支的部分能夠給地方政府有更公平的一個對待包括說給本席的新北市400萬人口但是我們人平均是拿到六都最低的有更公平的對待的話我覺得娛樂稅這相對來講這個比較項目比較少那是大家都可以接受而且再講"},{"start":14307.728,"end":14331.491,"text":"你今天的報告因為已經要討論到這個主條了有可能要討論到主條而且各黨團也都有簽所謂的不復議的一個同意書所以要討論到主條了你現在跟我們講是說可以來做檢討這個相關的這一些這個檢討條項或是部分課稅的項目但你還是沒有給我們到底具體的內容怎麼做"},{"start":14333.049,"end":14361.955,"text":"你們只有講不一樣但你沒有講的具體哪一些地方檢討哪一些地方調整沒有啊那到底是我們等到主條的時候才來做主條審查嗎還是說你們到底心目中有沒有什麼樣的方向電影是國片的部分我們可以不要爭娛樂稅還是怎麼樣的部分還是什麼表演性質我們表演團體如果說是我們這種本土的表演團體我們不要爭娛樂稅來鼓勵我們本土的文化"},{"start":14363.376,"end":14375.444,"text":"有沒有一個方向?跟委員報告齁當然您講的就是說為什麼沒有一個具體的項目就是我們如果後面講的就是說因為各個具體的項目地方政府還有一些分歧的意見所以我們希望能夠分出最大的所以什麼時候會出來這個議題已經討論很久從第10屆就討論了嘛"},{"start":14380.268,"end":14398.063,"text":"82年以來都有娛樂稅大家也都有討論說娛樂稅是不是與時俱進應該要調整但是絕對不是說到現在這個時候都已經要進入竹條了草野委員都有共識了都希望能夠修正都希望能夠爭取的時候還在講說地方政府那這樣就代表說你中央沒有去統合或說中央沒有去確認一個結論啊"},{"start":14400.55,"end":14424.525,"text":"我們即便是在立法院我們很多的委員有提出不同版本我們召委可能都會說拜託我們委員是不是各黨團去整合一個版本我們這樣子有兩三個黨團版本大家比較好來討論那一樣的道理啊今天我沒有辦法我知道各縣市的這個稅務單位都有來但我沒有辦法說叫各縣市的稅務單位大家一個一個上來所以我們當然還是請財政部來做統籌啊"},{"start":14427.589,"end":14436.702,"text":"我只想要確認是說當我們進入到主條的時候財政部會不會有一個一致的講法或說比列這樣而不是那麼空洞的講說是檢討條項但是還是一樣搖頭"},{"start":14440.748,"end":14453.913,"text":"我想跟委員報告,財政部還是會跟地方政府來討論,我們尋求一個最大的共識。是,所以你最大共識是什麼?就是不要動,維持現狀。沒有,我覺得不是這樣。不是,我們剛剛不是講過的項目被做調整。不是嗎?沒有,財政部大家都可以討論的啊,是。"},{"start":14465.305,"end":14483.452,"text":"副長本席還是強調啦我覺得是說應該要去做這真真正正的去討論因為現在既然娛樂稅各黨團也都有版本出來那大家也都希望是說能夠調整那還有就是如果說真的我覺得應該還要繼續思考如果說真的娛樂稅有取消或是減免的話"},{"start":14484.392,"end":14506.953,"text":"票價上的反應能不能給實質﹑譬如說消費者﹑譬如說給這些有最實質的一個益助是跟委員報告您提到就是說如果娛樂稅不課徵的話那是不是這個票價的這個娛樂稅是不是會反映到消費者的身上這個是很重要因為娛樂現在是他是在代徵也就是我賣電影票對不對沒錯所以"},{"start":14507.373,"end":14509.878,"text":"我順便就課真的娛樂稅我賣的時候賣了還是一樣你娛樂稅沒有課他依然是以這個片這個是很重要的事對啊"},{"start":14516.48,"end":14537.208,"text":"所以你要去...部長很重要所以本席現在質詢你有沒有去思考如果說假設真的有我們認為是說娛樂稅要取消的話那後面反映到票價上因為沒有代徵這一個部分了那我們怎麼樣有強制或是我們怎麼樣有一個政策工具或方法可以讓消費者也感受到"},{"start":14538.308,"end":14565.276,"text":"所以這個就後面的一個要做的事情可能會第一個地方政府少了稅收第二個消費者又沒有得到福利部長應該是今天大家都已經來了應該是財政部要超前部署要針對這個議題先去做研擬是我們會的我們還會再會邀地方政府一起來做討論的是什麼時候會邀我們時間再來定吧部長一個月內我"},{"start":14567.045,"end":14594.994,"text":"因為這個尊重召委的牌案但是我想羅明才委員他過去長期在財政委員會那麼資深的召委他也會協助那再加上是說我剛剛已經講了娛樂稅的部分我們各黨團有簽不復議同意書所以有可能很快也會來做這個逐條那本席認為應該財政部這邊要做超前部署如果說真的有調整在逐條審查的時候你們要提出你們的一個建議而不是說如同今天一樣就是"},{"start":14595.914,"end":14622.067,"text":"可以檢討跟調降但是沒有任何具體的東西我覺得這樣子沒有無助於無助於討論那還有更重要的是如果說真的有調降的話怎麼樣反映在票價上能夠讓消費者感受到現在既然政府沒有徵收這個娛樂稅一部分可以讓我們的表演團體他們能夠有減輕這個財政一部分也可以讓消費者減輕票價能夠更鼓勵大家"},{"start":14623.606,"end":14646.942,"text":"進場看表演,進場支持我們國片或說進場支持我們的運動產業,這樣可以嗎?是,會的。一個月內召開會議,在主條的時候要提出來,可以嗎?我們先召開會議好不好?好,一個月內,好不好?給本席,會議結論給本席以及我們財政委員會的委員。好,謝謝。謝謝部長。好,謝謝洪孟楷委員,謝謝。接著我們請黃國昌委員,黃國昌,在。"},{"start":14667.728,"end":14675.708,"text":"謝謝主席,然後有請監管會主委。黃主委。你好。"},{"start":14676.95,"end":14699.549,"text":"主委好主委辛苦了即將要卸任了我相信在您監管會議院內服務這麼久您的表現不管是金融界還是社會有一定的評價雖然您即將要卸任了有些事情我還是想要比較具體的問得清楚因為政府會輪替"},{"start":14702.84,"end":14711.884,"text":"閣員會換人金管會主委會換人但我們對於我們一般的民眾的保護應該是要持續的不會因為有換人的情況而產生變動"},{"start":14718.484,"end":14737.179,"text":"從上一次的國會到這一屆的國會以IMB的例子、IMB的這個弊案引發的風暴我們開始全面的去思考跟反省之前我在諮詢的時候也請教過您就是說2016年的時候我們本來P2P是要納管"},{"start":14738.54,"end":14757.686,"text":"在某一個時間當中突然政策做了非常大的轉彎後來央行針對主要的國家在訂定P2P規範的時候他們也很清楚的把各國規範的態度把它整理出來了從美國、英國"},{"start":14759.431,"end":14782.47,"text":"澳洲各個國家、央行、我們的中央銀行很負責的都把它整理出來了不管是就P2P平台的監理規範或者是P2P平台它應該要有的主管機關或者是說P2P平台它的業者它設立了合準或登記我相信這份報告主委你應該也很熟嗎?沒有拜讀謝謝是嗎?好"},{"start":14784.171,"end":14795.35,"text":"當然我知道啦,金管會到目前為止的立場是可能會考慮到說金管會自己目前本身的量能還是確定的沒有打算要把P2P納入監理的範圍嘛 對不對"},{"start":14799.079,"end":14820.819,"text":"現在因為去年行政院開過會有幾個方向,那也曾給委員看過那幾個步驟了,包括我們有定的主導原則、工會的自律,但工會現在因為每個人的model不一樣,所以在內政部那邊、經濟部那邊還造成還要再協調。您就先針對問題回答就好了,到目前為止的政策立場是沒有人要拿管嗎?"},{"start":14822.594,"end":14844.414,"text":"沒有用立法的方式去管沒有用立法的方式嘛那我也拜讀了監管會所推出的指導原則真的你們P2P借貸平台所推的指導原則我從頭到尾我詳細拜讀完了但作為一個法律人我最根本的問題是這個指導原則到底是什麼"},{"start":14845.928,"end":14864.796,"text":"這個指導原則是法規命令嗎?是行政規則嗎?他沒有法律的基礎嗎?我覺得這件事情把它講清楚很重要因為當指導原則沒有法律的基礎那我們接下來就要處理好幾個重要的問題第一個事情是那違反指導原則的法律效果是什麼?"},{"start":14866.277,"end":14885.076,"text":"因為我們105年開始基本是透過他們跟銀行之間的互動,透過銀行的間接的對他的這個封控這方面去做一個管理,是用這種方式去做的。對,所以我的問題成立除了你還沒有回答,違反指導原則的法律效果是什麼?"},{"start":14885.768,"end":14912.549,"text":"基本上沒有特定的法律效果沒有法律的依據這個事情我覺得讓所有的人知道是很重要的要不然大家接到訊息說儘管會有推指導原則大家會陷入一個錯誤的想像那個錯誤的想像就是你這個平台業者你要遵照這個指導原則你如果不遵照這個指導原則的話會如何如何"},{"start":14913.65,"end":14923.471,"text":"所以很清楚的讓所有的人都知道這些平台業者啊他不遵守這個指導原則也不會怎麼樣嘛我的理解有沒有錯誤"},{"start":14924.623,"end":14944.983,"text":"委員這P2P是這樣可是允不允許我可以多講一兩句話可以請說我們在那個虛擬資產平台也是去年9月26號有訂那個指導原則目前也還沒有訂法但是VASP的工會業者是對我們的指導原則是遵循的而且我們檢查的時候也會依照那個原則去檢查我這樣說好了啦"},{"start":14946.38,"end":14974.127,"text":"我們之所以有訂定規範的必要我們當然相信大部分的人會遵守規範之所以會制定規範是要處理那些不遵守規範的人以目前台灣P2P借貸平台也好債權轉讓也好的亂象我必須要跟主委講我個人的看法去期待這些業者會自己遵守這種自律規範我覺得是緣木求魚"},{"start":14975.387,"end":15000.607,"text":"我們比較實際的看法是當你不遵守當你不遵守我們應該有的規範的時候我們的法律效果是什麼給大家的保護是什麼這個才實際嘛 對不對主席你這個大小眼站起來你不喜歡看到我站起來伸展身體就對了最後一題你不要大小眼就好"},{"start":15002.674,"end":15023.967,"text":"這件事情很重要你要跟社會大眾知道這個自律規範業者不遵守也不會怎麼樣我為什麼很重視這件事情就是另外一個你們一直說要成立商業同業工會要成立商業同業工會讓他們自律嘛那商業同業工會講到今天成立了嗎"},{"start":15025.017,"end":15052.123,"text":"目前還沒有就是說業者之間彼此意見分歧有的就排他他覺得你的模式跟我不符我不要跟你加入這個工會是有這個問題主委目前的狀態不就剛好印證了我剛講的話嗎這些業者啊連要不要成立商業工會啊誰主導啊誰可以參加誰不可以參加都可以鬧得不可開交啊還期待他們會遵守這個自律規範啊"},{"start":15053.447,"end":15064.365,"text":"主委你覺得我講的有沒有道理?委員指教的值得我們參考謝謝他們這樣繼續鬧下去主委依照您的判斷在您卸任以前這個商業同業公會成立的起來嗎?"},{"start":15065.902,"end":15085.208,"text":"目前的進展是還沒有到成立的時候就原地踏步嘛持續的在踏步嘛過了一年以後我可能在這個地方問下屆的主委說這個PVP業者商業同位公會成立了嗎他還可能跟你的答案一模一樣這些業者大家有不一樣的看法"},{"start":15086.718,"end":15110.574,"text":"到現在都還沒有成立這個是為什麼我苦口婆心的講金管會真的針對這一件事情的規範立場是什麼或許要重新思考因為我真的很擔心我真的很擔心下一次不曉得又哪一個借貸平台出了狀況又有多少人會受害主委您可以了解我為什麼說這樣的話嗎"},{"start":15111.775,"end":15126.172,"text":"我很感謝委員對這件事情用這樣一個方式對我們的指導我們會記住最後可能也是公開的跟下一任可能的主委喊話要接金管會主委沒那麼容易"},{"start":15127.333,"end":15147.577,"text":"我希望新的內閣針對P2P這件事情立場到底是什麼是不是還是採取我們不納管用自律規範的方式可能要先想清楚因為一上任以後馬上就要跟整個社會做報告好 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝黃委員喔 謝謝接著我們請吳立華委員沒有啊 讓你講到完了就好吳現場而已就好謝謝"},{"start":15165.239,"end":15169.225,"text":"主席好有請財政部金管會"},{"start":15176.212,"end":15204.255,"text":"委員好部長好主委好前幾天4月19號的新聞我們有看到飯公股的華南銀行香港分行它違反了洗錢的規定遭到當地政府開罰了3680萬那照理說財政部台銀有共同持股可是我們看財政部的新聞稿專區"},{"start":15205.876,"end":15234.473,"text":"好像沒看到,隻字不提那儘管會作為我國金融監理機構我們的銀行遭到他國銀行的監理機構綜合裁法在新聞專區也是沒有看到所以在這邊就是想要了解一下華南銀行遭到香港政府的一個綜合裁法他是政治問題呢還是他們的一個疏失"},{"start":15237.195,"end":15256.991,"text":"2016 2016年趙鋒銀行紐約分行當時違反洗錢防治法遭到紐約州的金融署處以臺灣史上最高的罰款是1.8億的美金當時提出他們有6大問題像內控不佳"},{"start":15257.972,"end":15272.029,"text":"一式洗錢的匯款沒有申報或者是對客戶的實地查核不確實封控政策不明或者集合的寄報沒有依規定送總行"},{"start":15273.551,"end":15288.092,"text":"獲者他漠視金融檢查報告不回應等等所以想要就是瞭解一下先問一下主委那今晚會有沒有去了解這個是不是有違反相關的一些法制"},{"start":15289.582,"end":15309.359,"text":"他當然是有違反的缺失可是他不是真正的洗錢是他處理警示賬戶累積過多沒有及時依照香港金管局的規定去處理所以給予的處分所以是一個小缺失這不是真正的有一個交易是真正違反防止洗錢跟洗錢無關"},{"start":15310.64,"end":15311.82,"text":"委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":15329.947,"end":15345.129,"text":"主管機關財法的情勢立即要以書面報告向財政部說明事件的經過、處置的情形以及可能的影響。不知道財政部這個地方有沒有掌握到什麼?"},{"start":15346.381,"end":15370.244,"text":"有的。華南銀行確實有通報這個重大的事件也通報給財政部然後這個事情大概就是剛剛如主委所說的事實上是在107年以前的事情就是有關那個系統的有效驗證做不好以至於有關警示案件大量產生而且是華南銀行的香港分行主動去跟香港的金管局去自己去匯報的那所以呢那個"},{"start":15371.445,"end":15383.27,"text":"那邊的金管局也要求他們要去改善那事實上也改善了也經過相關的委外的顧問經過改善是有效的這個部分都經過這樣的一個處理了好 謝謝部長那因為八大公股行庫在香港都設有分行所以這樣的一個個案呢我們還是需要是不是讓通報各個銀行看看他們有沒有違反香港的一些金管規定對吧"},{"start":15398.257,"end":15424.083,"text":"是,我們一定會讓各個分行都要注意好,謝謝那再來請教一下我們金管會的主委請問您支不支持受險業降低海外投資佔比回台來抑制我國的產業發展我們的報告我們希望維持現狀但是維持現狀也可以同樣讓資金抑制我國的產業發展那跟主委報告"},{"start":15425.555,"end":15428.156,"text":"委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書"},{"start":15445.281,"end":15465.65,"text":"會很擔心說會不會造成一些金融上的一個波動那舉個例子來講如果說國外投資總額從現在的45%下降到25%那我們去把它設算加計這個國際版債券的上限之後也就是說會從65.25%下降到36.25%"},{"start":15470.632,"end":15491.771,"text":"那跟目前實際的佔比57.5%差距會到達21.25%如果去乘上受險資金總額如果以32兆來看那大概就是說會有6.8兆因為他超過上限所以他會立即的湧入到臺灣"},{"start":15493.132,"end":15518.743,"text":"那這個金額到底是怎麼樣的一個狀況那我們也看到有去試算如果以台灣史上最高單月的淨匯入金額在2023年的11月是3521億那這個6.8兆就會是史上最高的19.3倍請教一下主委就是它會造成什麼影響會讓台幣飆升嗎還是讓出口惡化"},{"start":15521.738,"end":15546.568,"text":"我覺得這還不是直接的直接的就是這些保護的權益怎麼維護這些投資出去是因為他的保單的年期跟收益力需要他要到國外投資那你回來如果沒有適當的標的如何保障保護的權益那請教就主委了對您也講到了為了要匹配我們的保單嘛那所以我們也會很想知道就是受險資金在台灣的可投資項目多不多"},{"start":15550.175,"end":15551.677,"text":"委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":15567.449,"end":15578.432,"text":"本院委員王世堅等23人、委員羅明才等19人、委員王世堅等23人、委員王世堅等23人、委員王世堅等23人、委員王世堅等23人、委員王世堅等23人、委員王世堅等23人、委員王世堅等23人、委員王世堅等23人、委員王世堅等23人、委員王世堅等23人、委員王世堅等23人、委員王世堅等23人、委員王世堅等23人、委員王世堅等23人、委員王世堅等23人、委員王世堅等23人、委員王世堅等23人、委員王世堅等23人、委員王世堅等23人、委員王世堅等23人、委員王"},{"start":15595.916,"end":15597.297,"text":"主委您覺得呢?所以我們的目標方向就是跨年逐步下降嗎?"},{"start":15616.691,"end":15631.245,"text":"我都有把我們整個的歷年來怎麼樣去協助都列出來在這個報告第8月、第9月成為委員參考。那我們會繼續努力。好,謝謝主委。那我們先回座。那請教一下那個部長,因為我們今天也有來談娛樂稅。是。"},{"start":15633.547,"end":15648.877,"text":"那大家也都講了很多啦那我也就不再贅述不過我們的想法都是說從2007年修正到現在2024年真的啦整個狀況都不同光是我們看在疫情期間"},{"start":15649.898,"end":15667.615,"text":"我們非常鼓勵去振興我們的藝文產業那現在電影院也都沒人去了其實我們是反過來去想要怎麼振興可是我們在2007年修正的時候像有一些保齡球館啊"},{"start":15668.275,"end":15670.177,"text":"議員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復"},{"start":15686.094,"end":15705.74,"text":"上一次的修正委員提案大概做了一些修正但是相對應的稅率那個部分並沒有做調整所以未來在修的時候可以一併的去把它做一個調整如同委員所說的這樣子才對所以會一併的來三處修正那另外一塊就是我們談到要針對一些稅務來去做一個處理的時候"},{"start":15711.361,"end":15734.5,"text":"財政部的回答我聽到的大概都是說要聽地方政府的意見所以想要請教一下部長因為我們不太了解也許你很了解這個地方政府不同意到底他是因為在意他的稅收減少還是說他不希望這些稅務刪除想要繼續消滅這些迷你之音"},{"start":15736.634,"end":15751.674,"text":"主要還是在於稅收的減少跟委員報告尤其在縣裡面他的鄉鎮市所收取的娛樂稅都是歸鄉鎮市這對鄉鎮市來說是非常重要的一個財源所以這個部分主要還是因為這個收入的問題"},{"start":15753.917,"end":15767.962,"text":"我看到娛樂稅一年稅收大概19億,您覺得很多嗎?19億當然在地方來說某些部分還是對他們來說還是蠻重要的一個裁員的因為各個地方比如以鄉鎮來說這個錢"},{"start":15769.483,"end":15797.673,"text":"所以呢歷年大家都過去都提出很多的解方嘛像是調高營業稅稅率或者做財化法的修正提高營業稅的統籌分貝又或者呢直接由中央編列預算補助併入奢侈稅開徵碳稅那地方政府開徵特別稅額我是在想這是大家提出的各種解方啦大概也不外乎這六種"},{"start":15798.513,"end":15818.43,"text":"那聽起來最有可能的是中央編列預算補助一年19億那去分配一下那如果說要找到一些替代財源也不難啊像國產署也經常做清理的案件或者是稅收增加的財源等等所以在這個地方可不可以請部長您6選1"},{"start":15822.011,"end":15840.698,"text":"委員報告這6項當然我們都要可以去演繹它各有它的一個問題在裡面我們歷年看到你們的回應都我們大概也都了解總是要6選1的話你選哪一個我想這個不是說我這邊在這邊選我覺得我們應該必須好好的討論跟來做一個演繹是"},{"start":15841.298,"end":15858.299,"text":"是跟地方政府討論?那當然地方政府,然後再加上我們中央裡面也要跟立委討論啦,立委當然是非常重要的事我是這樣覺得喔部長,因為我們的新政府要上任啦那賴清德總統他也提到文化建國的理念"},{"start":15859.58,"end":15879.731,"text":"所以我們真的是希望說把一些屬於藝文產業類的真的是可以拿掉了啦那如果真的覺得有一些是屬於高消費行為奢侈的那留著沒有關係但是總是要做一些改變好不好促進這些產業的發展好不好好那謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝吳麗華委員接著我們請鄭天才委員"},{"start":15901.457,"end":15929.327,"text":"主席、各位委員、有請部長。部長辛苦了。因為你要繼續當部長,所以應該希望很快的來處理這個《娛樂稅法》的問題。這個《娛樂稅法》第一條沒有立法的目的,直接就是說要依本法規定來徵收。"},{"start":15931.653,"end":15945.183,"text":"如果我們從這個過去的歷史的解釋來看民國69年以前徵收宴席娛樂稅後來就做了一個修正然後主要還是地方政府的收入"},{"start":15946.203,"end":15973.2,"text":"然後主要目的即在意境一增然後藉選擇奢侈性較高之娛樂消費行為科稅改善社會奢靡的風氣當然這個都已經改變已經不是了我們看這些娛樂稅法第二條你說它奢侈嗎也不是所以這個已經是一個很普遍的是一個日常所應該要有的所以"},{"start":15974.435,"end":15992.032,"text":"顯然按照你的報告就是說這個18點多億將近19億將近19億考量到是地方政府地方政府的稅收所以怎麼去解決地方政府的稅收"},{"start":15994.131,"end":15997.012,"text":"議員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復"},{"start":16019.565,"end":16044.781,"text":"很具體的做一個分析,對不對?像台北市、新北市,他們不同意嗎?所以,何況他的7都已經,都不是鄉鎮啦。所以這個部分要很具體的做分析,才能夠做論斷,才能夠去解決問題啦。所以這個部分給我們產業部一個方向。"},{"start":16047.885,"end":16069.011,"text":"這個監察院的糾正文提到相關這些這個是在比較早90幾年然後才監察院糾正案的一個結案97年的一個針對93年的也做了一個你們做了一個說明不管怎麼樣我們回到這裡這麼多的委員都質詢了你聽了這麼多"},{"start":16076.758,"end":16103.612,"text":"具體的要能夠不影響鄉鎮市很簡單就是補助所有他本來我們看要以哪一個年度假設我們現在修法我們就以112年度這些鄉鎮本來會收的這些娛樂稅中央就補助補貼就補助以後就照這個額度"},{"start":16106.155,"end":16122.27,"text":"這是一個最快的方式 對不對所以這個部分對一個中央政府對行政人來講19億不算多部長你如何"},{"start":16124.375,"end":16149.068,"text":"委員我知道您認為說這個19億的金額不是很高但是這個對地方的財政自主來說其實並不是很好他們還是希望能夠有自主權而且我們也召開地方政府的相關會議他們並不認同要廢止並不認同要廢止但是項目跟稅率是可以做一些再做一些調整我覺得就是與時俱進的做一些調整"},{"start":16151.25,"end":16164.325,"text":"部長,那個會議絕對沒有提說中央會補助,絕對沒有提嘛,對不對?他們當然就會反對啊,當然希望能夠維持啊。如果你開這個會議說"},{"start":16166.787,"end":16168.748,"text":"委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議須經各黨團簽署不復議須經各黨團簽署"},{"start":16188.68,"end":16199.256,"text":"也不用開會啦 對不對你政策決定然後我們下次修這個條文的時候審查這個條文的時候就同意"},{"start":16200.745,"end":16228.644,"text":"可以嗎?雖然財政部沒有說這個補助但是呢根據財化法以及財政紀律法裏面都有規定這個民意機關或各級政府如果去修正或者是廢止相關法律而至於收入減少的話都要密託財源補助替代的財源是這個事實上在法條裏面都已經有明定了那個條我很清楚是就是說如果會減少的時候對你就"},{"start":16229.725,"end":16235.612,"text":"民定說不會減少就沒有那個問題了。好不好?是,謝謝委員,是,謝謝委員。好,以上,謝謝。"},{"start":16257.196,"end":16258.922,"text":"謝謝主席本席請財政部莊部長"},{"start":16265.973,"end":16295.493,"text":"委員好部長好首先恭喜您繼續留任本席也要說大家辛苦了不只是您今天我們來了那麼多單位財政部、金管會、主計處、教育部各部會還有包含各縣市相關跟娛樂稅有關的縣市政府的稅務局的主管我想大家真的辛苦了"},{"start":16296.093,"end":16317.021,"text":"現在已經是下午一點多但是大家都還坐在這邊開會部長你知道最大的原因就是我們財政部剛剛我想很多委員都提出來了如果財政部這個過去也不是今天第一次要審這個法案第一次大家討論這個議題財政部在跟地方開會的時候"},{"start":16318.442,"end":16344.4,"text":"如果財政部可以拿著我們中央有一個解決的辦法那地方政府怎麼會拒絕呢?或是怎麼會反彈呢?本席想請教您對於娛樂相關產業包括體育、藝文表演等鼓勵讓他們租稅的合理待遇和機制給予他們支持您認同嗎?"},{"start":16346.34,"end":16346.94,"text":"那就振興運動產業的角度您認為應該繼續對高爾夫球場徵營業稅嗎"},{"start":16370.015,"end":16383.678,"text":"您是說營業稅還是娛樂稅?娛樂稅那這個高爾夫球場的部分您知道上一次在娛樂稅法修正的時候曾經有提出來的保齡球館還有撞球場以及高爾夫球場要把它"},{"start":16385.559,"end":16409.935,"text":"除掉要剋娛樂稅那最後事實上在討論的時候高爾夫球場這個部分並沒有委員的之間達成一個共同的意見也就是說對於高爾夫球場因為面積比較大嘛他耗費的一個土地資源還有水土保持等等的一些影響所以在那一次修法的時候就沒有把這個部分拿掉我想這個部分對高爾夫球場這個部分還要有社會上的一個共識"},{"start":16410.996,"end":16433.644,"text":"什麼共識?難道高爾夫球場它也是一種很健康的運動嗎?應該要不需要課娛樂稅才對?高爾夫球當然它也是一個運動嘛至於它要不要課娛樂稅在上一次討論的時候那您覺得高爾夫球是有錢人打的所以你要課他稅嗎?是因為這樣嗎?"},{"start":16436.145,"end":16458.434,"text":"並不是說因為是有錢人打的所以要做課所以因為現在高爾夫球場的收費當然也有不同啦那我想這個地方還是就於這個有關水土資源的保育及外部的一些成本的因素考量所以在上一次修的時候在立法院也沒有共識說要把它拿掉那這一次立法院有共識是不是就可以拿掉這一次的修正的話其實我們覺得修正的話其實也要考慮"},{"start":16462.623,"end":16483.629,"text":"當然委員有不同的意見也要考慮地方政府尤其在鄉鎮的部分尤其在鄉鎮的部分對他們來說是很重要的一個財源太好了你就是一直拿鄉鎮的鄉鎮事工所他們來當黨箭牌部長你知道為什麼你當財政部長然後不是當財政科長你知道為什麼嗎不是黨箭牌我覺得地方政府的意見我們必須還是要尊重各位剛剛每個委員都說了部長"},{"start":16491.089,"end":16505.757,"text":"每個委員都說了如果您這個財政部在跟他們溝通的時候你有拿出彌補的財源或者是你說我可以從財政收支劃分法甚至我統籌分配稅款我可以去彌補你這一塊他們怎麼會反對"},{"start":16508.513,"end":16530.51,"text":"每個委員都這樣質詢了但是今天大家會做這麼久也是因為財政部就是沒有拿出這個具體的方案特別在報告書裡面就直接表示沒有適合彌補財源的方式部長你知道什麼路最好走嗎就是放棄的路兩手一攤沒有辦法"},{"start":16531.641,"end":16560.207,"text":"我們中央政府不可以這樣所以本席也要在這邊表達我今天簽署羅明才委員的提案是非常痛苦的決定因為我們覺得娛樂稅要與時俱進但是本席的轄區、關西鎮、新竹縣應該說整個新竹縣我們有在高爾夫球場裡面全國的高爾夫球場排名第三多所以我們還是要為"},{"start":16561.307,"end":16563.028,"text":"議員的意見我們都虛心的聆聽是好謝謝"},{"start":16592.175,"end":16597.739,"text":"謝謝徐委員接著我們請羅明才委主席個人出列式官員大家好主席可不可以請財政部部長莊部長莊部長"},{"start":16614.622,"end":16640.283,"text":"委員好看到大家現在一點都還開會實在於心不忍其實我們如果說你現在答應的話我們就早點休息或者是說今天如果說沒有辦法進入實質的審查那你可不可以告訴大家說你下一次或是一個月的時候會讓他過"},{"start":16643.308,"end":16670.96,"text":"這個我剛剛已經說過就是說我們還是會請地方政府來來研商以後修行最大的一個共識對好啦我想520之前先也不要給你壓力了齁所以至少520以後一個新的人士應該有新的作為啊因為你也知道所有朝野立委對於廢除這個娛樂稅的這個事情大家都正向看待沒有人反對啊"},{"start":16672.441,"end":16692.498,"text":"所以也建請部長你要從善如流該怎麼做好的事情早做晚做都要做其實我就是覺得很可惜那麼重要的財經部會首長坐在這邊可以說是冷飯熱炒重複在講這個議題"},{"start":16697.412,"end":16717.715,"text":"其實與其這樣,倒不如覺得你如果同意我們就趕快休息,或者下次讓他通過,我們趕快就休息。因為你還有很多事情可以去做的,很重要的事情可以做的,太多了。比如說現在股市也跌跌不休,破兩萬點。部長你覺得兩萬點站得住站不住?"},{"start":16722.276,"end":16749.509,"text":"2萬點有上去好像今天大概是跌100多點因為我一直在這邊也沒有去看這個股市的情況上週慘跌700多點對上週五是跌了400多點股市的波動當然一定會有上上下下那也有各有各自的因素部長你與其在這邊講了一個早上的18億的稅損的問題你待會趕快去救股市啊"},{"start":16750.988,"end":16770.592,"text":"國安基金會不會出手?國安基金當然會密切的關注股市的一個情形但是國安基金進場必須要符合國安基金的裡面的相關的規定而且要經過國安基金委員會的一個授權所以像中東外面如果戰爭持續擴大會不會影響?這個算不算是國安基金"},{"start":16771.593,"end":16772.614,"text":"那最近大概什麼時候會開個會?"},{"start":16792.671,"end":16801.763,"text":"國安基金的例會是每三個月開大概前一兩個禮拜才剛開過例會。其實就長期的看喔,國安基金都是賺錢啊。"},{"start":16803.519,"end":16820.872,"text":"而且你知道國安基金賺了多少,你有沒有算過?上一次進場大概有賺差不多100億,但是國安基金的目的並不是在賺錢,它國安基金的目的是在穩定市場,穩定基金市場。所以你國安基金一出手隨便就賺100多億,我們今天早上講的是18億,你這10年也才180億,所以拜託部長你趕快去賺錢吧。"},{"start":16827.21,"end":16829.011,"text":"委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":16852.486,"end":16880.941,"text":"大陸兩岸一起來思考怎麼樣來推動兩岸的百年和平協定簽了以後我覺得台灣未來絕對不會輸於新加坡的更可以解決最重要本習慣性的年輕人長期低薪的問題當然像今天的黃主委也講了很多當然有一些議題不是你可以決定的但是解決"},{"start":16882.335,"end":16910.74,"text":"若干的問題提供保險公司在台灣更多的投資的機會也不是我的責任啊今天你如果讓我來當行政院長我趕快來做啊把環境做好把基礎擴大台積電也可以鼓勵他在台灣多發公債啊公司債啊對不對還有很多很多啊但台灣也發了不多公債的部分全部的市場規模台灣現在是多少國債"},{"start":16914.076,"end":16939.842,"text":"目前大概是四五千億對啊那這也不是我的問題啊是你們沒有把環境做好讓這些受選公司沒有辦法回來投資啊對所以就是倒果為因整個就亂的套啊其實你就把台灣想成未來新加坡成功的模式我們怎麼做我不期盼你們說很厲害你們照抄就好啦"},{"start":16941.751,"end":16960.166,"text":"提出來的法案都是有所本的啊。不然你就照抄啊。徒立了誰?好到台灣的年輕人啊。好到誰?好到台灣未來的發展啊。所以希望說部長你可以多思考一下。那最後再問你就今天會不會過?啊?今天?"},{"start":16964.457,"end":16965.498,"text":"接下來請金管委員黃竺偉"},{"start":16990.933,"end":16998.178,"text":"王主委您好教委好我記得股市上兩萬點的時候我們在這邊討論請教您說兩萬點會不會變成是一個生活之日常"},{"start":17004.298,"end":17028.484,"text":"就是兩萬點就不會是那麼害怕的事情因為以前一萬點經過一萬點的時候我在財委會的時候股市上萬點還給人民好生活所以那時候我請大家吃雞排、吃珍奶那現在我在考量如果兩萬點能站得穩的話我跟以前一樣就是"},{"start":17029.701,"end":17031.262,"text":"我們今天討論到保險法第146條的部分"},{"start":17055.802,"end":17079.779,"text":"主委你覺得要不要讓他過?因為我今天聽了所有的委員的講法大家都是希望說資金回來建設台灣啊、遷留台灣啊但是瓜胡如果有好的機會那事實上主委你知道如果是身為行政院長未來的這個行政院長他要是聽到這個他會高興的不得了講來聽來太多事情都不用說"},{"start":17080.953,"end":17109.108,"text":"光是這6兆多的資金回來了以後你想想看台灣會變成怎麼樣在前提要有地緣政治各方面的和平啊馬上股市可能就上要是我來看起碼3萬點以上所以我們大概算的都是輕輕計較那個哇利率啊因為美國利率有5%我們的2%可能有多3%那個都小菜兩三碟啦"},{"start":17110.034,"end":17134.676,"text":"我在看的是整個台灣怎麼樣脫胎換骨坦白講我是在野黨我根本就不應該要來提這個帶動台灣大力發展讓執政黨可以穩穩的做下去的法案為什麼那我心裡在想就是無論如何我在國民黨開會的時候我們有那個花蓮那一場會議我說國民黨要重返執政也很簡單"},{"start":17136.377,"end":17157.354,"text":"第一個你不要唱衰台灣你要做多台灣讓台灣就一直好起來你不要說為了選票考量第二個多多照顧年輕人第三個培養更多的優秀年輕人的政治人物然後不斷的圖利人民其實我要講這個就是圖利嘛"},{"start":17158.223,"end":17171.802,"text":"保險公司也不要想說回來我被限制你怎麼會被限制呢大家都知道現在美國國力衰退我們現在在授錢公司在美國買的公債公司債券加一加有多少"},{"start":17174.635,"end":17192.105,"text":"應該有上兆以上,對不對?好幾兆,對。那你想想看,如果哪一天美國突然國力不斷地衰退下去,突然爆炸,就像俄羅斯當初受險控制投資、以色列的投資一樣,全部都血本無歸。那回來台灣不是更好嗎?"},{"start":17193.274,"end":17213.775,"text":"公共建設、高鐵、環台、韓國瑜、韓院長打通整個中央山脈,以後都是穩賺的。開放入客來台,這全部所有的觀光旅遊各方面都起來,好起來又要好到誰?好到年輕人。"},{"start":17215.185,"end":17241.628,"text":"就不會永遠是3萬5嘛因為3萬5不是現在第一天講年輕人第一季的這個情況已經講了10年講了20年本席只不過找一個地方希望有個突破點讓他可以脫胎換骨大家多多來思考一下所以本席所講的主委你憑良心想想看如果台灣有那麼好的投資機會未來台灣會不會更好"},{"start":17244.309,"end":17246.572,"text":"主委今天聽起來根本也沒有委員反對阿只是說循序漸進那主委今天要不要讓他通過"},{"start":17260,"end":17282.573,"text":"市委會跟委員報告我們報告有寫因為保險資金出去有它必要的原因那如果真的通過造成保險資金真的要逐漸要回流是會造成很多對保護權益的影響可不可以跟委員報告我們在公共建設方面本來就是不斷在努力是不是給我們一點時間我們再努力下去是好那今天就如你所願"},{"start":17284.595,"end":17301.106,"text":"我們就繼續等新的主委來但我希望說新主委來你交接的時候你要跟大家講說大家財委會所有委員的關心跟用心那希望督促他公共基礎建設長照的部分他要想辦法怎麼引導"},{"start":17301.846,"end":17317.551,"text":"因為當我們是民意代表我們就是建議而已好不好請你把這個精神傳承下去你如果講了好不好你下次也是當行政院副院長阿也不要說懷憂喪志我沒有懷憂喪志阿是好那就繼續努力謝謝"},{"start":17325.617,"end":17335.727,"text":"何欣淳委員何欣淳、何欣淳、何欣淳不在謝一鳳、謝一鳳、謝一鳳、謝一鳳不在游浩、游浩、游浩、游浩委員不在曾振淺、曾振淺、曾振淺委員不在蘇晶淺、蘇晶淺、蘇晶淺委員不在"},{"start":17343.422,"end":17343.502,"text":"好,那"},{"start":17358.789,"end":17378.572,"text":"今日登記發言委員均已詢答完畢本次會議作如下決議一、說明及詢答完畢二、委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請相關部會於週內以書面答覆為另要求期限者從其所定"},{"start":17379.562,"end":17404.333,"text":"三、娛樂稅法第二條及第五條條文修正草案四案、廢止娛樂稅法兩案保險法第146條之四條文修正草案一案及保險法第177條條文修正草案及兩案請願案三案"},{"start":17405.151,"end":17420.638,"text":"我們就宣布則其繼續審查本次會議議程已進行完畢如果不在場委員補題書面質詢一併列入紀錄刊登公報並請議事人員協助處理散會"},{"start":17455.226,"end":17459.45,"text":"本院委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}