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謝謝珊珊委員 謝謝接下來請李昆城委員發言"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":900,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（10時35分）謝謝主席。請金管會副主委，還有兆豐金董事長。"],["主席：請金管會陳副主委和兆豐金董董事長。"],["陳副主任委員彥良：主席、委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：兩位好。"],["董董事長瑞斌：委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：最近我們最關心的，就是不肖的融資租賃公司現在已經升級到勾結詐騙集團，這件事情已經不是秘密，最近發生的事情兩位是否知道？就是有臺版的地面師。地面師用詐騙集團先騙錢，再叫被害人去向融資借貸公司貸款、設定抵押權，最高的是被騙了1,600萬元，兩年之內合作詐騙二十多個民眾，總金額高達3億元。董事長，銀行公會答應12月要出爐的專法研議案，出來了沒？"],["董董事長瑞斌：就進度來說應該還沒有，因為我們是委外，委託外界一家……"],["黃委員珊珊：11月的時候，你說12月中，現在是12月中了。"],["董董事長瑞斌：應該快要提出期中報告了。"],["黃委員珊珊：期中報告出來了？"],["董董事長瑞斌：應該快要提出了，我還要再追一下進度。"],["黃委員珊珊：我要問的是時間表，我已經等你們1年了，11月的時候說12月中，現在是12月底，請問什麼時候會出來？月底可不可以出來？1月可不可以出來？2月可不可以出來？給我一個時間表就好。"],["董董事長瑞斌：我希望他們12月底之前至少要交一個版本，謝謝委員。"],["黃委員珊珊：副主委，你們一直說銀行公會在研究，等銀行公會提出以後，你們打算什麼時候針對融資公司的管理做相關處理？因為在立專法之前，我知道你們有一些做法，但是對於這個專法案，我也一樣需要它的時程表。這份報告出來之後，你們多久可以做政策性的處理？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：因為我們還沒有看到專法研究的成果，就像委員剛剛說的，我們是先用金融消費者保護法……"],["黃委員珊珊：融資公司法，立法院曾經提過版本，我們有提版本，其他委員也提了版本。"],["陳副主任委員彥良：是，民國85年一直到現在，將近……"],["黃委員珊珊：大家都提了版本，我相信你們有版本可以參考，不用重新來過，好嗎？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：我只需要知道你們的時間表，金管會沒有時間表嗎？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：就是年底的時候，我們還是要先等這個委託報告提出來。"],["黃委員珊珊：我只是要你說明需要多少時間。好，他們12月底提出來，你們1月份給我一份報告，說明你們大概需要多少時間，好嗎？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：是，謝謝。"],["黃委員珊珊：第二個，融資租賃業務要納入金融消費者保護法是之前金管會說的，現在進度怎麼樣？還是你們又被摸頭了？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：沒有。我們不可能被摸頭，在這個地方……"],["黃委員珊珊：為什麼停下來？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：我們沒有停下來，現在一切仍然在持續溝通、進行當中，因為還要開公聽會。"],["黃委員珊珊：溝通中？所以三大家公司給了很多壓力？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：不會，其實都在溝通中。"],["黃委員珊珊：一樣給我時間表。什麼時候至少把上市櫃的融資租賃公司納入金融消費者保護法，有這麼難回答嗎？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：我們預計是在明年中，但是還要……"],["黃委員珊珊：明年中？又要半年？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：因為我們的子法提出之後還要預告，再加上立院這邊的公聽會，其實……"],["黃委員珊珊：從520主委上任，我就告訴他了，我們已經等了半年，現在你們還要再開公聽會，所以還要再半年。本席再問一次，把資本額達到一定規模以上的上市櫃融資租賃公司納入金融消費者保護法，有這麼難嗎？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：這是30年來的問題，我們520上任的時候，其實根本沒有解決方案，後來我們提出解決方案，預計明年中，如果一切順利的話。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以你們的專法可能要半年以後，是嗎？所以這半年就讓這些融資租賃公司繼續橫行，繼續讓詐騙集團和這些人攪和在一起，讓國人受更大的損害嗎？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：現在租賃公會也有一個自律公約，其實統計數字是往下降的。"],["黃委員珊珊：如果自律公約有用，就不會有這種事了嘛！地面師跑到臺灣來，兩年內騙了二十多人3億元，而且還設定抵押權耶！這個問題更嚴重，不是把他的錢騙走而已，還讓他負債。副主委，我知道主委很想做，也知道你很想做，我希望儘快做。"],["陳副主任委員彥良：我們會盡全力。"],["黃委員珊珊：我只需要時間表。你可以不用現在回答本席，1個月內給本席時間表，3個月、5個月或1年都可以，就算是10年也可以，請你們講出來，好嗎？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：接下來我想問一下，在此之前，現在公股銀行也有轉投資融資租賃業，對不對？時間暫停，請財政部上臺。"],["主席：時間暫停。"],["黃委員珊珊：公股銀行有沒有轉投資融資租賃業？"],["阮次長清華：沒有。"],["黃委員珊珊：沒有嗎？那我怎麼在相關的租賃公會看到臺企銀、中小企銀、一銀、華南金都有轉投資。"],["阮次長清華：他們是有授信給他們，但是不是投資啦！"],["黃委員珊珊：所以也是有的。好，那就是授信給他們，所以他們也算是融資租賃的會員之一。這些公股銀行很受政府控制，我們也希望他們成為剛剛講的前面應該納管的這些人的示範，這些示範總可以先做吧？"],["阮次長清華：好。因為金管會最近有一個函文，就是逐步納管相關的融資租賃公司，這部分……"],["黃委員珊珊：所以財政部，麻煩公股銀行要當領頭羊，公股銀行也要做示範。"],["阮次長清華：是，謝謝委員指教。"],["黃委員珊珊：剛剛金管會沒有出來的規範，如果銀行公會出來了，我們應該讓公股銀行先行，可以嗎？"],["阮次長清華：是，我們一定會照金管會的函文，轉達各公股銀行遵行，謝謝。"],["黃委員珊珊：董事長，我想再問一下，兆豐銀行現在很不錯，我上次在3月份質詢所謂的簡訊短碼，公股銀行希望能夠納入111短碼平臺，有自己的短碼，才不會讓民眾收到假的簡訊，所以兆豐銀行……"],["董董事長瑞斌：我們已經加入了。"],["黃委員珊珊：兆豐銀行加入了？"],["董董事長瑞斌：對。"],["黃委員珊珊：銀行公會有多少會員加入？"],["董董事長瑞斌：據我了解，目前大概只有兆豐加入而已。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以金管會，兆豐銀行加入了。"],["陳副主任委員彥良：對，兆豐銀行已經推出來了。"],["黃委員珊珊：你們是不是應該鼓勵所有銀行業者加入？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：是，我們在公會及其他地方都有鼓勵大家加入，現在也在商量價格。"],["黃委員珊珊：反正都一樣。請問財政部，公股銀行可以先做嗎？短碼平臺的部分，兆豐銀行已經加入，所有公股銀行都要加入，可以嗎？"],["阮次長清華：已經在做了。"],["黃委員珊珊：什麼時候會做完？不知道？短碼平臺的部分。"],["阮次長清華：一直都在做。是不是請董事長說明？因為公股銀行的部分……"],["黃委員珊珊：全部的銀行只有兆豐銀行在做，財政部的公股銀行並沒有全做啦！董事長請說。"],["董董事長瑞斌：因為這牽涉到費用的問題啦！"],["黃委員珊珊：我知道，所以大家一起去談嘛！這樣很好談的。"],["董董事長瑞斌：對，所以我希望由銀行公會出面，和三大電信公司談一個更好的deal，目前是比較貴的。"],["黃委員珊珊：很好，所以董事長，我也需要你們的時間表，一個月之內給本席報告，包括你們要怎麼做、什麼時候會做到，好嗎？要有計畫、時程。"],["董董事長瑞斌：好，謝謝委員。"],["黃委員珊珊：時間暫停，我想請101的賈董事長。"],["主席：請賈董事長。"],["黃委員珊珊：還有證交所。"],["主席：請證交所林董事長。"],["賈董事長永媫：委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：謝謝。董事長，剛剛都在說很多的詐騙，101是臺灣重要的金融中心，而且也是非常重要的金融指標，但是從2009年開始，曾經發生過相關的詐騙集團設址在101大樓，讓投資人覺得這個公司好大、好氣派喔！所以投資了一大堆錢，結果被騙。"],["賈董事長永媫：是，這個部分我知道。"],["黃委員珊珊：我想問一下，目前為止證交所和兆豐金都是投資人，是主要的董事股東，對於所謂的租客，101大樓有沒有審查機制？或者租客要具備什麼條件？"],["賈董事長永媫：關於這個部分，其實我也差點變成受害者，在2009年的時候，確實有這樣的公司approach我們。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以現在有什麼機制？"],["賈董事長永媫：我們現在的機制就是會很認真地審查這家公司的財務狀況。"],["黃委員珊珊：有個審查會還是什麼？有什麼機制？"],["賈董事長永媫：包含背後的法務、金融機制等等。目前進駐101大樓的單位，全部都是國際大公司。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，你們有機制。第二個，我們現在查信義路五段7號這個地址，有447筆公司登記，將近500筆，其中包括分公司。我們非常歡迎國際企業進駐，但我們還是希望有一個機制，不要再發生2009年的問題，當時富通、凱盛財務公司發生問題之後，那時候就說有機制，2018年又發生富南斯傳銷的問題，2020年發生展彤投資的詐騙案，所以雖然有機制，但問題還是不斷發生。"],["賈董事長永媫：好，謝謝委員提示。"],["黃委員珊珊：我今天要說的是，現在是2024年，董事長接任了，我們希望101以後不要再發生類似的問題。"],["賈董事長永媫：確實，謝謝。"],["黃委員珊珊：因為公司設在101就會騙到人。投資人看到公司登記在101，就認為它是國際大企業，這才是問題，好嗎？"],["賈董事長永媫：我了解。關於這個部分，我上任的時候已經請稽核清查所有登記在101的公司是否為確實的公司，這個我有去做。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，那就麻煩董事長提供財委會你剛才所說的查核機制和相關的查核狀況，不能再發生類似的問題。本席認為你們和其他的商辦大樓不一樣，房東不能說不知道，因為你們叫101。"],["賈董事長永媫：是，我了解。"],["黃委員珊珊：它必須承擔所謂的國家門面、還有金融重鎮的責任，尤其是我們的公股還有這麼多持股。"],["賈董事長永媫：確實。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以一樣，麻煩在1個月內，給我你們相關的查核機制和查核結果，好嗎？謝謝。"],["賈董事長永媫：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝珊珊委員。","接著請李坤城委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":82,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-12","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","李坤城","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","羅明才","王世堅","王鴻薇","陳玉珍"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-23"],"gazette_id":"1141101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1141101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「兆豐金控及臺灣證券交易所投\n資之台北金融大樓股份有限公司2024年營運成效、2025年度經營計畫與展望、暨跨年晚會煙火表\n演規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1141101_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}