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好"},{"start":223.035,"end":247.883,"text":"謝謝委員的指正我想本行為了永續發展目標那強化企業的社會責任我們會獎勵引導企業務重視並具體執行ESG那我們會根據ESG的風險評估來做加減碼的考量你唸的這些都是台詞你唸的很好我認為台銀過去幾十年來台銀的傳統台銀百分之百管股欸"},{"start":248.883,"end":259.085,"text":"百分之百應該配合政府的政策百分之百要做全國公民營銀行的表率所以在ESG的執行外你"},{"start":260.796,"end":285.762,"text":"不能輸給第一銀行好不好第一銀行我覺得做得很標準我剛剛提的這幾大項目就可以看出到底你們有沒有落實在執行我就舉例啦既然你要回答我舉例啊大直基太就是你們放款給他的啊整個工地攤限欸林房也跟著攤限"},{"start":287.932,"end":316.306,"text":"我去現場看他那個林房被壓在下面那一層樓父子三個人三更半夜連滾帶爬爬出來才躲過一劫重傷輕傷人數十幾個之多造成的公安的以及合約的紛擾一堆結果你還繼續放還給"},{"start":318.308,"end":331.315,"text":"基態我時間有限你理解了那待會去好好檢討好不好我們114年開始會根據委員的建議我們會揭露涉及業績風險的收集案件指數114年開始會揭露好OK好謝謝時間暫停請問我請問財政部長莊部長請莊部長委員好莊部長"},{"start":349.595,"end":372.52,"text":"這個時機來啦財政草案法通過啦這個最為全民所詬病的娛樂稅、印花稅現在替代裁員沒問題了我認為要廢除娛樂稅跟印花稅此其時也啦那娛樂稅我跟你提過好幾次從110年110年到112年它我們實際"},{"start":377.858,"end":378.718,"text":"〈菸酒稅法部分條文修正草案〉"},{"start":394.892,"end":396.233,"text":"〈菸酒稅法部分條文宣告〉"},{"start":412.722,"end":417.946,"text":"本院委員吳琪銘等16人提案如經院會復議．則不予審查本院委員吳琪銘等16人提案如經院會復議．則不予審查本院委員吳琪銘等16人提案如經院會復議．則不予審查本院委員吳琪銘等16人提案如經院會復議．則不予審查"},{"start":443.089,"end":471.325,"text":"既然是這樣替代裁員有啦財政收支花生法我們現在撥了3880億給地方剛好財政部可以明令把娛樂稅包括印花稅就這樣廢止因為替代裁員就有了嘛不是嗎?娛樂稅真的講那麼多次你看一般小市民現在生活已經很難過了看場電影看個表演"},{"start":472.677,"end":480.692,"text":"也要科稅這個是太殘酷了那印花稅更是印花稅過去部長你應該曉得過去"},{"start":483.227,"end":506.319,"text":"財政部跟行政院都主張廢除印花稅因為重複課稅財政部我翻箱倒櫃找得出來你們過去要廢除印花稅你們還列了五大理由除了我說重複課稅以外還課增項目的增益難控管益、逃漏國外簽約、避稅、地方政府徵稅你們列了五大理由"},{"start":507.76,"end":525.127,"text":"然而行政院更是接觸說廢除運花稅方向正確不會改變你們在108年還重申廢除運花稅勢在必行還說地方稅損中央來補"},{"start":526.528,"end":549.616,"text":"你看他做了一個圖卡圖卡的右方就是你一直講的替代財源你說改革才會有替代財源稅制要進步財政健全也要顧這是當初你們做的圖卡所以我希望已經時候到了"},{"start":550.717,"end":554.041,"text":"有財政收支劃分法的通過3880億補給地方剛好財政部就順這個事宣布印花稅、娛樂稅廢除可不可以"},{"start":565.367,"end":580.053,"text":"跟委員報告硬花稅跟娛樂稅是不是要廢除這個事情已經討論很久那當時為什麼沒有能夠廢除最主要是尊重地方的財政自主我想另外就是說稅收金額比如說硬花稅也大概180億那有關娛樂稅大概十幾億但是對鄉鎮來說很重要那現在委員所提的就是說財務號法修正了然後地方財源增加那是不是可以考量"},{"start":593.439,"end":607.491,"text":"那我想這個後續我們會看財化法後續的一個進展情形另外再來做考量是對,現在欸對啦,融化稅金額確實高多了10倍之多,超過170億但不管170億的融化稅19億的娛樂稅加起來相比跟整個3880億比那是非常小的數額不是這樣嗎"},{"start":622.364,"end":642.363,"text":"佔大概百分之不到百分之五嘛﹖而且、而且應花稅、重複課稅這個在民間各大中小企業已經怨聲載道數十年之久好不好我覺得此期實業啊"},{"start":643.871,"end":670.172,"text":"你財政收支法通過那麼替代財源就有了嘛過去你一直堅持的啊要先有替代財源現在替代財源沒問題了我最後一個問題齁主席不好意思我再一個一分鐘就是說還有一個問題就是說關於啊低價免稅額的申報也就是說本來我們政府對於海外網購有個很小金額的免稅規定"},{"start":671.826,"end":696.694,"text":"本來3000元的免稅額給每一位我們民眾現在107年降到2000塊啦那各位也知道本來3000塊欸你可以網路上買買雙球鞋現在降到2000塊我看可能要買拖鞋了那很多民眾用這樣子的這一個寬檢那麼他可以購買國外"},{"start":700.484,"end":702.005,"text":"《菸酒稅法部分條文修正草案》"},{"start":714.653,"end":717.574,"text":"韓國甚至高達150美元到200美元之多我們只有63塊美元即便日本"},{"start":739.065,"end":758.374,"text":"那麼愛用國貨的國家他們也還有88美元之多那當然第一名這種美國、澳洲800、750新加坡298這麼高額的免稅額的這個就不比啦我們光比比韓國、日本文差他們這麼多嘛"},{"start":759.674,"end":768.673,"text":"所以我認為這個應該適度的要不但維持而且應該恢復到過去的3000元你認為呢"},{"start":770.694,"end":780.78,"text":"根委員報告第一個根委員說明的財政部並沒有在研議要取消這2000元低價免稅的一個規定目前沒有第二個我們也在請我們的外館去了解其他各國對於低價免稅的一個門檻的一個金額第三個我們也了解到其實部分有些國家已經對於這樣的一個金額有其實往下降的趨勢為什麼有某些國家他用地價大量製造的"},{"start":798.95,"end":823.451,"text":"衣服、鞋類非常廉價然後到其他國家去對國內的製造業也好都會產生衝擊這是必須要做考量的因為要考量我們國內的製造業要考量電商平台我們都要層面上要多做考量你說要調查國外的我剛剛那張表格已經有那個也是我調查很久你去看就有了啦那個金額遠高於我們"},{"start":824.392,"end":847.757,"text":"第二點他們各該國是不是要去調價我們未有所聞但是即便調價他那麼高的金額他去調價還算合理我們也才63塊美金而且最主要這個是另外一個課題我下次要質詢的就是其實大家要針對的是中國電商中國的這些廉價"},{"start":850.114,"end":876.125,"text":"廉價物品的傾銷的問題這是另外一個重大課題但是我們給一般民眾這個才2000元我認為應該提高回復到3000元這只是我們給民眾的小確幸我認為這一筆不但不應該取消而且應該適度提升中國電商那是中國電商我們另外一個法令要來談要嚴格禁止"},{"start":877.706,"end":878.047,"text":"法定人數不足"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":661,"blocks":[["王委員世堅：（11時24分）謝謝主席，我請臺灣銀行總經理。"],["主席：臺灣銀行總經理林總經理，不是，那個是……"],["王委員世堅：是吳總經理，他有來吧？"],["主席：有，對不起，吳總經理。"],["吳總經理佳曉：委員好。"],["王委員世堅：吳總經理，臺灣銀行是銀行界的龍頭，不只是九大公營行庫的龍頭模範，臺灣銀行更是全國34家銀行帶頭的榜樣，這麼多年來政府一直強調ESG，所以對企業的放款要注重環境面、社會面以及自己公司治理，因此銀行也制定了ESG的風險評估。我本來以為臺銀會是最具榜樣、最好的ESG執行，結果我一看，天啊，昏啦！從你們的ESG表格製作就可以看出來，我認為你們是在應付、敷衍，為什麼呢？在你們所接觸到的申請案件中，有涉及ESG的案件總數是多少，這個欄位你是空白的，你只有列出有條件通過、附條件，就是加利息或加註其他條件；要不然就是不核准、沒有通過。這些案件的數字都不大、都幾十件，所以有涉及ESG的案件你們到底有沒有好好去審？沒有！","其次，很奇怪！這些涉及ESG的案件，不管你附條件或者你不給他通過的，到底金額是多少、貸款金額是多少？你也沒有、付之闕如！搞不好你列的都是一些小金額、小案件，隨便找幾個案件充數。我認為你們應該看看第一銀行，第一銀行在這一方面的內容，你看！包括涉及ESG風險的總案件數是多少、總金額是多少、有條件通過的是多少、沒有核准的金額是多少，這樣才周延，讓政府、讓全民都可以了解，讓企業界也能夠了解，到底ESG是不是應該嚴格控管，大家才有所憑據，不是這樣嗎？所以吳總經理，這個部分臺銀讓我很失望，我希望你回去好好檢討，好不好？"],["吳總經理佳曉：謝謝委員的指正，我想本行為了永續發展目標、強化企業的社會責任，我們會獎勵、引導企業戶重視並具體執行ESG，我們會根據ESG的風險評估來做加減碼的考量，至於……"],["王委員世堅：你唸的這些都是臺詞，你唸得很好，我認為過去幾十年來臺銀的傳統，臺銀百分之百官股、百分之百應該配合政府的政策、百分之百要做全國公民營銀行的表率！所以在ESG的執行上，你不能輸給第一銀行，好不好？"],["吳總經理佳曉：是的。"],["王委員世堅：第一銀行我覺得做得很標準，我剛剛提的這幾大項目就可以看出你們到底有沒有落實在執行。我就舉例，既然你要回答，我舉例，大直基泰就是你們放款給他的，整個工地坍陷、鄰房也跟著坍陷！我去現場看，那個鄰房被壓在下面那一層樓，父子三個人三更半夜連滾帶爬爬出來才躲過一劫，重傷、輕傷人數十幾個之多，造成公安以及合約的紛擾一堆，結果你還繼續放款給基泰！我時間有限，你理解了那帶回去好好檢討，好不好？"],["吳總經理佳曉：跟委員報告，我們114年開始會根據委員的建議，我們會揭露涉及ESG風險的收件案件總數。"],["王委員世堅：好，114年開始會揭露。"],["吳總經理佳曉：是。"],["王委員世堅：好，謝謝。"],["吳總經理佳曉：謝謝。"],["王委員世堅：時間暫停，請回。"],["主席：時間暫停。"],["王委員世堅：我要請財政部長莊部長。"],["主席：請莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["王委員世堅：莊部長，這個時機來了，財政收支劃分法通過了，作為全民所詬病的娛樂稅、印花稅，現在替代財源沒問題了，我認為要廢除娛樂稅跟印花稅，此其時也！","娛樂稅我跟你提過好幾次，從110年到112年，我們實際課稅的金額是所有稅金項目裡面最低的，從11億5,600到18億9,000，這麼小的金額但是課稅成本卻是超高的，課徵的成本跟課徵的金額比來講，占了20%，課徵費用占20%，一般其他的稅收課徵費用大概2%而已，所以這個實在是稽徵成本也過高。而且你看我們國家文策院在國發會鼓勵之下推動電影、表演藝術活動這些實體的表演，像這些都要課娛樂稅，同樣是電影放映，實體的電影放映要課娛樂稅，那在串流平臺上面像Netflix這種卻免課稅，基本上，這個有違租稅的公平，違反了租稅的公平。所以我認為既然替代財源有了，財政收支劃分法修正通過，現在要撥3,880億給地方，剛好財政部可以明令把娛樂稅、包括印花稅就這樣廢止，因為替代財源就有了嘛！不是嗎？娛樂稅真的講了那麼多次，你看一般小市民現在的生活已經很難過了，連看場電影、看個表演也要課稅，這個真的是太殘酷了。那印花稅更是這樣，部長，你應該曉得過去財政部跟行政院都主張廢除印花稅，因為重複課稅，我翻箱倒櫃找了出來，你們財政部過去要廢除印花稅還列了五大理由，除了我說的重複課稅以外，還有課徵項目的爭議、難控管易逃漏、國外簽約避稅、地方政府爭稅，你們列了五大理由，行政院更是揭櫫廢除印花稅的方向正確、不會改變，你們在108年重申廢除印花稅勢在必行，還說地方稅損由中央來補。你看！我還列出這個圖卡，在圖卡的右方就是你一直講的替代財源，你說改革才會有替代財源，還說「稅制要進步，財政健全也要顧」，這是當初你們做的圖卡，所以我認為已經時候到了，財政收支劃分法修正通過，有3,880億補給地方，剛好財政部就順這個勢宣布印花稅、娛樂稅廢除，可不可以？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，印花稅跟娛樂稅是不是要廢除這個事情已經討論了很久，那當時為什麼沒有能夠廢除？最主要是因為尊重地方的財政自主，另外就是印花稅的稅收金額大概180億、娛樂稅大概十幾億，但是對鄉鎮來說很重要。現在委員所提的就是，財劃法修正了，然後地方財源增加，那是不是可以考量，我想我們會看財劃法後續的進展情形，然後再來做考量。"],["王委員世堅：對，印花稅金額確實高多了，有10倍之多，金額是170億，那170億的印花稅和19億的娛樂稅加起來，跟3,880億相比，那是非常小的數額，不是這樣嗎？大概占不到5%，而且印花稅重複課稅，這個在民間各大中小企業已經怨聲載道數十年之久，好不好？我覺得此其時也，財政收支劃分法修正通過了，那麼替代財源就有了，過去你一直堅持要先有替代財源，現在替代財源沒問題了！","我要問最後一個問題，主席，不好意思，我再講1分鐘。還有一個問題，就是關於低價免稅額的申報，也就是說，本來我們政府對於海外網購有一個很小金額的免稅規定，本來是3,000元的免稅額給我們的每一位民眾，107年要降到2,000塊，各位也知道，本來花3,000塊可以在網路上買一雙球鞋，現在降到2,000塊，我看可能要買拖鞋了。有很多民眾用這樣子的寬減可以購買國外比較好的保健食品，所以這個方向是對的，可是這個只有2,000元而已，這是民眾的小確幸，聽說你們還在評估要整個取消，天啊！你如果看看鄰近的這些先進國家，還有包括我們鄰近的自由民主國家，像我們的好朋友們，包括日本、韓國，你看他們都遠比我們高，韓國甚至高達150美元到200美元之多，我們只有63塊美元，即便日本那麼愛用國貨的國家，他們也還有88美元之多，那當然第一名像美國800、澳洲750、新加坡298，這麼高的免稅額，就不跟他們比了，我們光是和韓國、日本比，我們差了他們這麼多，所以我認為這個應該適度的……不但要維持，而且應該恢復到過去的3,000元，你認為呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，第一個要跟委員說明的是，財政部並沒有在研議要取消這一個2,000元低價免稅的規定，目前沒有。第二個，我們也在請我們的外館去了解其他各國對於低價免稅所訂定門檻的金額。第三個，我們也了解到，其實有些國家對於這樣的一個金額其實已經有往下降的趨勢，為什麼？因為有某些國家用低價大量製造的衣服、鞋類都非常廉價，然後賣到其他國家去，對於該國的製造業會產生衝擊，這是必須要做考量的，因為也要考量我們國內的製造業，也要考量到電商平臺，都要多做考量。"],["王委員世堅：部長，你說的這些考量都對，但是你說要調查國外的，我剛剛那一張表格裡面已經有了，那個我也是調查了很久，你去看就有了，那個金額遠高於我們。第二點，他們國家是不是要去調降，我們未有所聞，但是即便調降了，他們原來是那麼高的金額，他去調降還算合理，我們也才63塊美金，而且最主要是另外一個課題，這是我下次要質詢的問題，其實大家要針對的是中國電商，中國的這些廉價物品傾銷的問題，這是另外一個重大的課題。但是我們給一般民眾才2,000元，我認為應該提高，回復到3,000元，因為這只是我們給民眾的小確幸，我認為這個不但不應該取消，而且應該適度提升。關於中國電商，那是中國電商的問題，我們要來談另外一個法令，要嚴格禁止，謝謝。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝世堅委員。","接著我們請黃健豪委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":106,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-13","speakers":["賴惠員","賴士葆","陳菁徽","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","顏寬恒","李坤城","李彥秀","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王世堅","黃健豪","黃珊珊","羅明才","張啓楷","陳玉珍","王鴻薇"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-25"],"gazette_id":"1141203","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1141203_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「菸酒稅法」 10 案：( 一) 行政院函請審議、本院委員李柏毅等 16 人、委員賴惠員等16\n人、委員郭國文等 18 人、委員吳琪銘等 16 人分別擬具「菸酒稅法部分條文修正草案」等 5 案、\n(二)本院委員徐巧芯等29人擬具「菸酒稅法第十九條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員賴士葆等\n27人、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等20人、委員張智倫等18人分別擬具「菸酒稅法第十九\n條及第二十一條條文修正草案」等3案、(四)本院委員陳玉珍等19人擬具「菸酒稅法第十九條及\n第二十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查「使用牌照稅法」8案：(一) 行政院函請審議、本院委\n員賴士葆等24人、委員陳菁徽等17人、委員張智倫等18人、委員陳素月等19人、委員賴惠員等17\n人、委員郭國文等16人分別擬具「使用牌照稅法第二十九條、第三十條及第三十一條條文修正草\n案」等7案、(二) 本院委員陳玉珍等19人擬具「使用牌照稅法第三十條及第三十一條條文修正草\n案」案；三、審查行政院函請審議、本院委員賴士葆等21人、委員林楚茵等18人、委員徐巧芯等\n27人、委員賴惠員等17人、委員郭國文等17人分別擬具「土地稅法第五十四條條文修正草案」等\n6案；四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分，關於財政部主管中國\n輸出入銀行、臺灣金融控股股份有限公司（含臺灣銀行股份有限公司、臺銀人壽保險股份有限公\n司、臺銀綜合證券股份有限公司）（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1141203_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}