{"error":false,"id":["158459"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":158459,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158459","日期":"2024-12-27","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-2-15","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期第15次會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":15,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"第11屆第2會期第15次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-12-27T15:45:46+08:00","結束時間":"2024-12-27T15:49:03+08:00","影片長度":"00:03:17","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/53dd6557a2223b7291ae076de66ba6cfd11d8b6ef47c2575a1c181126de4af8d7e067b1efe2647ce5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"15:45:46 - 15:49:03","會議時間":"2024-12-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第15次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院司法及法制委員會報告併案審查委員廖偉翔等18人、委員楊瓊瓔等21人分別擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」、委員林月琴等17人擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」、委員洪孟楷等22人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」、委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」及委員吳宗憲等19人擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」案等27案。 二、12月27日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 三、12月31日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.227843750000002,"end":11.016593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.35409375,"end":12.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.244093750000001,"end":19.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.99409375,"end":26.406593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.71034375,"end":31.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.31284375,"end":34.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.400968750000004,"end":37.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.88159375,"end":40.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.969718750000006,"end":46.352843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.94346875,"end":51.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.88784375,"end":59.61659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.34221875,"end":65.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.34971875000001,"end":73.08284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.72409375000001,"end":77.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.53784375000001,"end":81.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.43159375,"end":83.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.22471875000001,"end":89.09721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.29971875000001,"end":92.03346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.20221875,"end":93.51846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.25659375000001,"end":98.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.86784375,"end":100.26846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.75784375,"end":104.52096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.97659375,"end":107.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.76096875,"end":111.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.67596875000001,"end":114.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.35471875,"end":121.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.88534375,"end":123.52221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.01159375,"end":125.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.13784375,"end":127.31909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.77471875,"end":132.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.08596875,"end":135.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.41909375,"end":137.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.44409375,"end":142.70909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.72596875000002,"end":164.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.23721875,"end":177.84284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.45034375,"end":182.31471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.68596875,"end":193.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.35909375,"end":197.02971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.244,"end":31.389,"text":"主席,這堂委員先進,從第一條到七條,我想大家都目前都不傻傻,幫各位科普一下今天不管是國民黨、民眾黨的第一條是什麼?揭弊者閉案是公部門,還是公部門加國營事業,還是要包含私營部門民眾黨堅持要連私部門,國民黨說國營事業控股公司就可以了"},{"start":32.366,"end":59.417,"text":"第二條是主管機關,法務部這個沒意見第三條,閉案是哪些?掳掠了很多法律條文違反就算閉案但是民眾黨我上午說了,他偷藏了一個,他把私部門收縮木可公司資本而未達益,沒有接避的範圍重慶基金會,他呢,雖然他不是公部門雖然他有點是黨營事業,不在這個範圍,不能查他的閉案"},{"start":60.57,"end":76.825,"text":"國民黨這邊是怎麼樣呢?國民黨第4條是受理弊案機關很奇怪兩黨都很共識政風機關、司法檢調機關還有什麼?監察院兩黨不是說監察院多餘的嗎?監察院可以受理啊"},{"start":77.586,"end":106.912,"text":"第5條很特別第5條就是所謂我們避案我們要怎麼去處理國民黨認為呢他把他限縮什麼叫國營事業什麼叫做呢這個揭弊者呢必須在哪些地方存在民眾很特別啊他的揭弊者不都是內部的啊任何人只要有事實、合理、相信存在就會成為揭弊者只要你有科學理性務實就會揭弊者嗎"},{"start":107.847,"end":131.994,"text":"木可公司可以成為任何別人的揭弊者然後第6條是第二層的受理揭弊機關第二層是什麼意思只要是什麼只要是媒體、公司登記的媒體還有公益團體都可以成為受理機關現在第7條最嚴重了第7條是什麼這個受理揭弊的機關可以對揭弊的對象進行調查"},{"start":134.121,"end":162.782,"text":"好厲害啊第二層的媒體跟公益團體可以對揭弊有弊案的公司進行調查按照民眾黨的邏輯台積電可不可以有弊案有資本額1億元以上揭弊者是誰木可公司可以做揭弊者他向誰去揭弊他向重信基金會公益團體揭弊然後重信基金會就可以要求台積電接受他的調查不得拒絕"},{"start":163.863,"end":177.548,"text":"天啊 揭弊者保護法是要保護那些因為在公部門內部勇於檢舉他必須要被保護的人要保護的是揭弊者不是給你受理揭弊機關去調查弊案啦"},{"start":178.496,"end":192.724,"text":"我們民眾黨黃國昌這麼喜歡調查弊案當立委要調查權都被憲法法庭打回票了現在用木可公司做檢舉向重信基金會檢舉就可以調查台積電的弊案"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:45:55.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:45:57.745000+08:00","text":"主席、在場的委員先進。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:45:57.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:46:06.066000+08:00","text":"從第一條到第七條，我想大家到目前都「霧嗄嗄」，幫各位科普一下，今天不管是國民黨、民眾黨的第一條是什麼？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:46:06.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:46:12.808000+08:00","text":"揭弊者弊案是公部門，還是公部門加國營事業，或者包含私營部門？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:46:12.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:46:17.369000+08:00","text":"民眾黨堅持要連私部門，國民黨說國營事業控股公司就可以了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:46:18.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:46:21.467000+08:00","text":"第二條是主管機關，法務部，這個沒意見。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:46:21.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:46:23.208000+08:00","text":"第三條，弊案是哪些？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:46:24.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:46:26.389000+08:00","text":"臚列了很多法律條文，違反的算弊案。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:46:27.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:46:45.397000+08:00","text":"但是我上午說了，民眾黨偷藏了一個，它把私部門收縮，木可公司資本額未達1億，沒有在揭弊的範圍；眾望基金會雖然不是公部門、它有點是黨營事業，不在這個範圍，不能查它的弊案。","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:46:46.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:46:47.911000+08:00","text":"國民黨這邊是怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:46:48.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:46:52.436000+08:00","text":"國民黨的第四條是受理弊案機關。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:46:52.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:46:58.441000+08:00","text":"很奇怪，兩黨都很有共識，政風機關、司法檢調機關，還有什麼？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:46:58.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:46:58.762000+08:00","text":"監察院。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:47:00.123000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:47:01.965000+08:00","text":"兩黨不是說監察院是多餘的嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:47:01.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:47:02.805000+08:00","text":"監察院可以受理啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:47:03.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:47:19.269000+08:00","text":"第五條很特別，就是所謂弊案我們要怎麼去處理，國民黨認為，把它限縮於什麼叫國營事業，什麼叫做揭弊者必須……在哪些地方存在？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:47:21.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:47:32.912000+08:00","text":"民眾黨很特別，它的揭弊者不光是內部的，任何人只要有合理事實、相信存在，就可以成為揭弊者，只要你是科學、理性，務實，就可以是揭弊者嗎？","quality":0.807},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:47:33.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:47:36.608000+08:00","text":"木可公司可以成為任何弊案的揭弊者啊！","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:47:37.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:47:42.249000+08:00","text":"然後第六條是第二層的受理揭弊機關，第二層是什麼意思？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:47:42.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:47:50.192000+08:00","text":"只要是公司登記的媒體還有公益團體，都可以成為受理機關。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:47:50.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:47:54.153000+08:00","text":"現在第七條最嚴重了，第七條是什麼？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:47:54.153000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:47:57.974000+08:00","text":"這個受理揭弊的機關可以對揭弊的對象進行調查啊！","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:48:00.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:48:00.521000+08:00","text":"好厲害！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:48:01.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:48:08.147000+08:00","text":"第二層的媒體及公益團體可以對有弊案的公司進行調查。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:48:08.928000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:48:11.690000+08:00","text":"按照民眾黨的邏輯，台積電可不可以有弊案？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:48:11.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:48:13.771000+08:00","text":"有，資本額1億元以上。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:48:14.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:48:15.713000+08:00","text":"揭弊者是誰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:48:15.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:48:17.314000+08:00","text":"木可公司可以做揭弊者。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:48:18.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:48:18.935000+08:00","text":"它向誰揭弊？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:48:19.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:48:22.197000+08:00","text":"它向眾望基金會公益團體揭弊。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:48:22.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:48:29.863000+08:00","text":"然後眾望基金會就可以要求台積電接受它的調查，不得拒絕。天哪！","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:48:31.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:48:38.426000+08:00","text":"揭弊者保護法是要保護那些因為在公部門內部勇於檢舉而必須要被保護的人。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:48:38.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:48:43.368000+08:00","text":"要保護的是揭弊者，不是給受理揭弊機關去調查弊案！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2024-12-27T15:48:45.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-27T15:48:58.703000+08:00","text":"民眾黨黃國昌這麼喜歡調查弊案，當立委要調查權都被憲法法庭打回票了，現在用木可公司做檢舉、向眾望基金會檢舉，就可以調查台積電的弊案，笑死人了！","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-27T15:48:59.203000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-27T15:49:00.631571+08:00","text":"謝謝鍾委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-27T15:49:00.931571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-27T15:49:04.074429+08:00","text":"下一位請黃國昌委員發言。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-27T15:49:04.374429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-27T15:49:09.231571+08:00","text":"黃國昌委員、黃國昌委員、黃國昌委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-27T15:49:09.531571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-27T15:49:12.960143+08:00","text":"登記發言委員均已發言完畢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-27T15:49:13.260143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-27T15:49:24.688714+08:00","text":"報告院會，因為台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團分別所提再修正動議第八條條文相同，所以一併處理。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-27T15:49:24.988714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-27T15:49:32.417286+08:00","text":"現在表決台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團再修正動議第八條條文。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-27T15:49:32.717286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-27T15:49:40.717286+08:00","text":"現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決，現在開始，時間1分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-27T15:49:41.017286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-27T15:49:42.160143+08:00","text":"（進行表決）","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":428,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（15時45分）主席、在場的委員先進。從第一條到第七條，我想大家到目前都「霧嗄嗄」，幫各位科普一下，今天不管是國民黨、民眾黨的第一條是什麼？揭弊者弊案是公部門，還是公部門加國營事業，或者包含私營部門？民眾黨堅持要連私部門，國民黨說國營事業控股公司就可以了。","第二條是主管機關，法務部，這個沒意見。","第三條，弊案是哪些？臚列了很多法律條文，違反的算弊案。但是我上午說了，民眾黨偷藏了一個，它把私部門收縮，木可公司資本額未達1億，沒有在揭弊的範圍；眾望基金會雖然不是公部門、它有點是黨營事業，不在這個範圍，不能查它的弊案。","國民黨這邊是怎麼樣？國民黨的第四條是受理弊案機關。很奇怪，兩黨都很有共識，政風機關、司法檢調機關，還有什麼？監察院。兩黨不是說監察院是多餘的嗎？監察院可以受理啊！","第五條很特別，就是所謂弊案我們要怎麼去處理，國民黨認為，把它限縮於什麼叫國營事業，什麼叫做揭弊者必須……在哪些地方存在？民眾黨很特別，它的揭弊者不光是內部的，任何人只要有合理事實、相信存在，就可以成為揭弊者，只要你是科學、理性，務實，就可以是揭弊者嗎？木可公司可以成為任何弊案的揭弊者啊！","然後第六條是第二層的受理揭弊機關，第二層是什麼意思？只要是公司登記的媒體還有公益團體，都可以成為受理機關。","現在第七條最嚴重了，第七條是什麼？這個受理揭弊的機關可以對揭弊的對象進行調查啊！好厲害！第二層的媒體及公益團體可以對有弊案的公司進行調查。按照民眾黨的邏輯，台積電可不可以有弊案？有，資本額1億元以上。揭弊者是誰？木可公司可以做揭弊者。它向誰揭弊？它向眾望基金會公益團體揭弊。然後眾望基金會就可以要求台積電接受它的調查，不得拒絕。天哪！揭弊者保護法是要保護那些因為在公部門內部勇於檢舉而必須要被保護的人。要保護的是揭弊者，不是給受理揭弊機關去調查弊案！民眾黨黃國昌這麼喜歡調查弊案，當立委要調查權都被憲法法庭打回票了，現在用木可公司做檢舉、向眾望基金會檢舉，就可以調查台積電的弊案，笑死人了！"],["主席：謝謝鍾委員。","下一位請黃國昌委員發言。黃國昌委員、黃國昌委員、黃國昌委員不在。","登記發言委員均已發言完畢。","報告院會，因為台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團分別所提再修正動議第八條條文相同，所以一併處理。","現在表決台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團再修正動議第八條條文。現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決，現在開始，時間1分鐘。","（進行表決）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":200,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-15","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","黃國昌","莊瑞雄","洪孟楷","吳秉叡","吳思瑤","陳玉珍","廖偉翔","林國成","沈發惠","張啓楷","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","徐巧芯","沈伯洋","王義川","蔡易餘","李坤城","林楚茵"],"page_start":14,"meetingDate":["2024-12-27"],"gazette_id":"1140701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140701_00002","1140701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第15次會議紀錄","content":"討論事項\n公益揭弊者保護法－完成三讀－","agenda_id":"1140701_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}