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這個案子在審查當下我個人是有提出這樣的一個意見什麼意見 說清楚我有提醒委員要注意到不當連結的問題你有提醒他要注意不當連結的問題他還是執意為之因為每個委員都有獨立行使之權是啊 但你們委員會共同做出決定在公平會裡面的決定書當中"},{"start":117.563,"end":143.539,"text":"出現了這樣子的東西等於是什麼裡面有委員因為個人的喜好個人的偏好開口要求業者加碼再捐一億他才要投贊成票你說你有提醒這有不當廉潔禁止原則違反的問題他還是執意為之那你們委員會在進行審議的時候"},{"start":145.629,"end":158.756,"text":"不應該把這件事情納入考慮嗎我想當初在討論的時候所有的各個面向都會在委員會裡面是 針對這件事情的面向請副主委 我提醒副主委我現在是在給你機會可以這樣幹嗎你個人覺得適合嗎清楚表明你的看法我的看法就是在那次委員會裡面我表達對那個委員表達的看法"},{"start":174.289,"end":202.756,"text":"表達什麼看法再說一次清楚的跟大家講我提醒在付負擔跟我們結合案的審查必須要符合不當連結的原則你認為這有沒有違反不當連結禁止原則我個人認為是這樣的一個連結是並不是很妥當好我就是要這種態度啊要不然我們在這邊審查什麼每一個人的看法心中的那把尺很重要"},{"start":204.568,"end":231.969,"text":"公民交易委員會牽涉到多少衝擊消費者利益保護的事情啊要求全聯捐錢才要通過結合權力這麼大胡搞瞎搞到這種程度啊再往後看2022年7月到目前為止全聯有沒有履行每年捐3億的承諾就我了解是有了"},{"start":232.81,"end":253.588,"text":"每年都有有確實去查核嗎有有有 這個在委員會事後的旅行情況我們都有在查核今年四月全年違反承諾 其他的承諾嘛遭罰兩千萬你當初也是蓋同意票的嘛對於這樣的結果你有什麼感想 會不會後悔我想"},{"start":254.87,"end":279.089,"text":"結果通過付負擔當然事後競爭主管機關還是得要持續去監督有沒有履行是那監督的結果呢那很遺憾的就是看到企業沒有按照當初答應的來履行所以我們當然就處罰以併購啊他所得的經濟上利益跟你罰他兩千萬你會不會覺得不痛不癢一般的人民啊可能搞個兩千萬就要傾家蕩產啊"},{"start":281.69,"end":305.943,"text":"對於這個併購的企業因為併購所得到的經濟上利益你覺得罰他兩千萬他有感覺嗎有感覺嗎有任何一點感覺嗎適合嗎因為罰者部分有法定的上限所以有時候我們也知道是企業他有一些僥倖的心態但是因為受監禮法定刑好主席站起來了謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:23:37.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:23:45.314000+08:00","text":"有請被提名人。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳志民被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T10:23:45.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:23:45.514000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:23:46.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:23:47.275000+08:00","text":"被提名人，你好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:23:48.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:24:03.546000+08:00","text":"我這一次請教你問題的原則，跟上一位被提名人、主委李鎂的態度一模一樣，只有4分鐘的時間，我想要確定一下你的立場，也給你機會說明。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:24:09.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:24:28.804000+08:00","text":"2022年7月公平會通過全聯併購大潤發案，以4比3非常近的比例，全聯併了大潤發以後，在市場上所具有獨占的地位對消費者所造成的衝擊跟影響，我想副主委很清楚吧？清楚。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:24:29.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:24:30.524000+08:00","text":"你很清楚嘛？清楚。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:24:31.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:24:42.745000+08:00","text":"在那一次併購的時候，有委員提出要全聯一年捐3億出來，那位委員是你嗎？不是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:24:43.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:24:45.408000+08:00","text":"是哪一位委員？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳志民被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T10:24:45.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:24:47.291000+08:00","text":"委員是不是容許我不方便在這邊……","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:24:47.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:24:49.313000+08:00","text":"好，沒有關係。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:24:49.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:24:50.594000+08:00","text":"你贊不贊成可以這樣搞？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:24:52.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:24:52.617000+08:00","text":"可以這樣搞嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:24:54.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:24:56.201000+08:00","text":"這跟市場的公平競爭秩序有什麼關係啊？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳志民被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T10:24:58.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:25:04.975000+08:00","text":"坦白跟委員講，在這個案子審查當下，我個人是有提出這樣的一個意見……","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:25:04.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:25:05.895000+08:00","text":"什麼意見？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:25:05.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:25:06.075000+08:00","text":"說清楚！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳志民被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T10:25:06.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:25:09.256000+08:00","text":"我有提醒委員要注意到不當聯結的問題。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:25:09.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:25:12.137000+08:00","text":"你有提醒他要注意不當聯結的問題？是。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:25:12.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:25:13.157000+08:00","text":"他還是執意為之？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳志民被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T10:25:14.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:25:16.678000+08:00","text":"因為每個委員都是獨立行使職權。是啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:25:17.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:25:32.666000+08:00","text":"但是你們委員會共同做出決定，在公平會的決定書當中出現了這樣子的東西，等於是什麼？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:25:32.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:25:59.371000+08:00","text":"裡面有委員因為個人的喜好、個人的偏好，開口要求業者加碼再捐1億，他才要投贊成票，你說你有提醒這有不當聯結禁止原則違反的問題，他還是執意為之，那你們委員會在進行審議的時候不應該把這件事情納入考慮嗎？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"陳志民被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T10:25:59.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:26:02.713000+08:00","text":"我想當初在討論的時候，對所有的各個面向都會在委員會裡面討論。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:26:02.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:26:06.675000+08:00","text":"是，針對這件事情的面向，我提醒副主委，我現在是在給你機會，可以這樣幹嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:26:06.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:26:06.915000+08:00","text":"你個人覺得適合嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:26:06.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:26:07.336000+08:00","text":"請清楚表明你的看法。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳志民被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T10:26:07.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:26:08.736000+08:00","text":"我的看法就是在那次委員會裡面我對那個委員所表達的看法。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:26:24.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:26:24.969000+08:00","text":"你表達什麼看法？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:26:25.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:26:27.150000+08:00","text":"再說一次，清楚的跟大家講。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳志民被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T10:26:27.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:26:33.691000+08:00","text":"我提醒他附負擔跟我們結合案的審查必須要符合不當聯結禁止的原則。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:26:33.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:26:37.952000+08:00","text":"你認為這有沒有違反不當聯結禁止的原則？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳志民被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T10:26:37.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:26:41.553000+08:00","text":"我個人認為這樣的一個聯結並不是很妥當。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:26:41.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:26:44.734000+08:00","text":"好，我就是要這種態度啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:26:45.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:26:48.575000+08:00","text":"要不然我們在這邊審查什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:26:48.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:27:09.219000+08:00","text":"每一個人的看法、心中的那把尺很重要，公平交易委員會牽涉到多少衝擊消費者利益保護的事情，要求全聯捐錢才要通過結合，權力這麼大啊？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:27:10.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:27:11.901000+08:00","text":"胡搞瞎搞到這種程度啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:27:12.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:27:20.948000+08:00","text":"再往後看，從2022年7月到目前為止，全聯有沒有履行每年捐3億的承諾？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"陳志民被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T10:27:20.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:27:21.728000+08:00","text":"就我的了解是有。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:27:22.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:27:23.350000+08:00","text":"每一年都有？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:27:24.151000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:27:25.472000+08:00","text":"有確實去查核嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳志民被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T10:27:25.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:27:28.675000+08:00","text":"有，我們委員會對事後的履行情況都有在查核。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:27:29.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:27:38.163000+08:00","text":"今年4月全聯違反其他的承諾遭罰2,000萬，你當初也是蓋同意票的嘛！","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:27:39.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:27:41.626000+08:00","text":"對於這樣的結果，你有什麼感想？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:27:42.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:27:42.447000+08:00","text":"你會不會後悔？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳志民被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T10:27:43.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:27:49.494000+08:00","text":"我想結合通過附負擔，當然事後競爭主管機關還是得要持續去監督有沒有履行。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:27:49.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:27:51.796000+08:00","text":"是，那監督的結果呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳志民被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T10:27:52.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:27:56.319000+08:00","text":"很遺憾的就是看到企業沒有按照當初答應的來履行，所以我們當然就處罰。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:27:56.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:28:05.786000+08:00","text":"以併購之後他所得的經濟上利益跟你罰他2,000萬相比，你會不會覺得他根本就不痛不癢？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:28:05.786000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:28:17.973000+08:00","text":"一般的人民可能搞個2,000萬就要傾家蕩產了，對於這個併購的企業因為併購所得到的經濟上利益，你覺得只罰他2,000萬，他會有感覺嗎？","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:28:17.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:28:19.814000+08:00","text":"有感覺嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:28:19.814000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:28:23.516000+08:00","text":"有任何一點感覺嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:28:23.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:28:24.857000+08:00","text":"這樣適合嗎？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳志民被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T10:28:24.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:28:33.762000+08:00","text":"因為罰則部分有法定的上限，所以有時候我們也知道企業有一些僥倖的心態，但是因為受限於法定刑。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2024-12-30T10:28:34.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T10:28:35.943000+08:00","text":"好，主席站起來了，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-30T10:28:36.443000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-30T10:28:38.443000+08:00","text":"被提名人請回座。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-30T10:28:38.743000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-30T10:28:41.314429+08:00","text":"下一位請林岱樺委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}