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14:16:36","會議時間":"2024-12-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟、司法及法制兩委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查行政院函送公平交易委員會委員提名名單，李鎂續任委員並為主任委員、陳志民續任委員並為副主任委員、洪財隆續任委員，林慶堂為委員，請同意案。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.62034375,"end":13.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.344093750000003,"end":22.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.27221875,"end":22.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.59284375,"end":24.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.05659375,"end":50.909093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.909093750000004,"end":51.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.55034375,"end":52.680968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.83284375,"end":57.017843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.55784375,"end":62.384093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.375968750000006,"end":61.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.62034375,"end":63.73409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.98721875000001,"end":65.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.47221875000001,"end":66.11346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.11346875000001,"end":67.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.49721875,"end":68.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.29034375,"end":81.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.90846875000001,"end":87.00471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.54909375000001,"end":87.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.46034375,"end":89.95784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.82721875,"end":90.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.21096875,"end":94.19346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.88534375,"end":95.25659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.03721875000001,"end":117.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.90284375,"end":118.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.12221875,"end":119.69159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.41721875,"end":125.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.56409375000001,"end":130.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.71096875,"end":136.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.20784375,"end":147.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.14721875,"end":147.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.19784375,"end":147.45096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.45096875000002,"end":151.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.38284375,"end":152.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.66534375,"end":154.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.85909375,"end":172.66221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.01659375,"end":177.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.42096875000001,"end":182.78721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.78721875000002,"end":184.54221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.01471875000001,"end":187.95096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.11971875,"end":190.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.41471875000002,"end":192.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.79409375,"end":200.52284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.94471875000002,"end":203.42534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.42534375000002,"end":203.96534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.96534375000002,"end":204.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.52221875,"end":206.51346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.05346875,"end":211.52534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.89659375000002,"end":213.17909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.17909375000002,"end":220.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.85721875000002,"end":221.11034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.24534375000002,"end":262.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.06596875,"end":262.63971875000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.249,"end":11.536,"text":"請王鴻薇謝謝主席 請被提名人 洪財隆委員"},{"start":22.715,"end":40.746,"text":"今天上午,黃國昌委員針對在2022年7月公平會通過全聯併購大論發的時候有委員要求全聯每年要捐款贊助有關於體育跟棋藝他問了李美跟陳志民兩位被提名人"},{"start":41.306,"end":41.626,"text":"請問你是不是西洋旗協會的會員?"},{"start":57.891,"end":61.493,"text":"我沒有參加現體協會,但是我有參加活動你有參加活動,你是不是會員?我不是會員過去是不是會員?不是會員那請問一下公平會在審核一個兩大併購案的時候卻要求業者去贊助特定的活動或者協會,你認為適當嗎?"},{"start":82.157,"end":92.731,"text":"跟外匯委員報告,這個案子大家知道嗎?你認為適當嗎?因為我時間非常有限。說實在,我心理上是同意這個合併案的。"},{"start":95.075,"end":117.611,"text":"但是你不管你同不同意但是要求在這個病後案的過程裡面要求來做這個捐款等於是一個募款這是極不適當的行為另外因為你是續任的委員那麼在2017年跟2018年公平會有一個世紀大案就是高通當時在前一年"},{"start":120.473,"end":138.076,"text":"公平會罰高通234億元但是到第二年在高通的一個要求下公平會跟他和解成功最後放水只罰了27億元那這個案子"},{"start":138.777,"end":143.621,"text":"當時引起業界嘩然而且是全世界首見我請問你當時主張和解嗎是你主張和解因為你是唯一當時時任的另外當時監察院調查這件案子而且還糾正了公平會可是公平會悍然拒絕提供當時的和解錄音檔也使得當時的業者沒有辦法向高通來求償"},{"start":168.779,"end":184.39,"text":"請問一下,你同意公平會當時的黑箱作業嗎?報告委員,後來這個事情最後還是有提供錄音檔當時後來沒有提供的時候,你是主張的嗎?你是主張不提供的嗎?最後我是主張提供"},{"start":185.103,"end":185.243,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":207.091,"end":217.176,"text":"目前多少?已經超過在2022年年底已經超過14億美元到2022年才開始投資嗎?不是已經我們有5年的專案所以從2018開始到2023結束好我這個"},{"start":222.159,"end":224.78,"text":"講了這麼多就是有關高通的案子因為當時呢你親濟過關因為當時在立法院的整個結構之下好像沒有什麼人在關心這個案子一個全世界獨家然後傷害我們台灣產業的一個案子"},{"start":240.828,"end":259.867,"text":"從234億變成27億和解而且竟然還拒絕提供監察院相關的錄音帶我覺得這都是極不適任的因為這次你是應該唯一續任因為原來的郭淑珍委員她這次也沒有再續任我覺得這件事情必須在這一次續任案裡面然後讓大家全面的來檢視以及檢討以上 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:12:23.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:12:23.275000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:12:24.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:12:25.536000+08:00","text":"請被提名人洪財隆委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-30T14:12:25.536000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-30T14:12:31.125500+08:00","text":"請洪財隆被提名人。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:12:31.125500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-30T14:12:36.715000+08:00","text":"委員好。你好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:12:36.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:12:54.726000+08:00","text":"今天上午黃國昌委員針對2022年7月公平會通過全聯併購大潤發的時候，有委員要求全聯每年要捐款贊助體育及棋藝活動，他問李鎂跟陳志民兩位被提名人，他們兩位都說他們從來沒有講過。","quality":0.753},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:12:54.726000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-30T14:12:55.726000+08:00","text":"我想請問在這個併購案裡面，是不是你要求來贊助投資？","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪財隆被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T14:12:55.726000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-30T14:12:56.726000+08:00","text":"對，是我。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:12:55.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:12:55.626000+08:00","text":"好，我想請問你是不是西洋棋協會的會員？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"洪財隆被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T14:13:11.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:13:12.431000+08:00","text":"我沒有參加西洋棋協會，但是我……","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:13:12.431000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-30T14:13:13.431000+08:00","text":"你之前有參加？","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"洪財隆被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T14:13:12.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:13:12.632000+08:00","text":"我參加活動。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:13:12.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:13:13.412000+08:00","text":"你有參加活動，你是不是會員？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪財隆被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T14:13:13.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:13:13.752000+08:00","text":"我不是會員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:13:13.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:13:14.353000+08:00","text":"過去是不是會員？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪財隆被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T14:13:14.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:13:14.433000+08:00","text":"不是會員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:13:14.453000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:13:15.493000+08:00","text":"請問一下，公平會在審核兩大併購案的時候，要求業者去贊助特定的活動或者協會，你認為適當嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪財隆被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T14:13:36.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:13:41.184000+08:00","text":"跟王委員報告，這個案子大家知道嘛……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:13:41.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:13:42.345000+08:00","text":"你認為適當嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪財隆被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T14:13:42.345000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-30T14:13:43.345000+08:00","text":"市場的結構……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:13:42.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:13:43.947000+08:00","text":"因為我的時間非常有限。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"洪財隆被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T14:13:45.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:13:46.691000+08:00","text":"說實在的，我心理上是同意這個合併案。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:13:49.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:14:01.184000+08:00","text":"不管你同不同意，在這個併購案的過程裡面要求捐款，等於是一個募款，這是極不適當的行為。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:14:01.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:14:11.371000+08:00","text":"另外，因為你是續任的委員，公平會在2017年跟2018年有一個世紀大案，就是高通案。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:14:11.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:14:30.414000+08:00","text":"當時在前一年，公平會罰高通234億元，但是到了第二年在高通的要求下，公平會跟它和解成功，最後放水只罰了27億元。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:14:31.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:14:33.478000+08:00","text":"這個案子當時在業界是一片譁然，而且是全世界首見。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:14:33.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:14:33.638000+08:00","text":"請問你當時主張和解嗎？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:14:33.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:14:34.298000+08:00","text":"你是唯一當時時任的委員，你主張和解。","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:14:34.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:14:37.621000+08:00","text":"另外監察院當時也調查了這件案子，而且還糾正公平會，可是公平會悍然拒絕提供當時的和解錄音檔，也使得當時的業者沒辦法向高通求償。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:15:02.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:15:06.162000+08:00","text":"請問你同意公平會當時的黑箱作業嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪財隆被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T14:15:06.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:15:11.725000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這個事情最後還是有提供錄音檔。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:15:12.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:15:17.089000+08:00","text":"沒有提供的時候，你是主張不提供的嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪財隆被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T14:15:17.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:15:18.370000+08:00","text":"最後我是主張提供。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:15:18.370000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-30T14:15:22.914200+08:00","text":"最後主張提供，之前有沒有主張不提供？","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪財隆被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T14:15:22.914200+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-30T14:15:27.458400+08:00","text":"之前有一些過程，我有點忘記了，不過最後……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:15:27.458400+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-30T14:15:32.002600+08:00","text":"你忘記了？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:15:32.002600+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-30T14:15:36.546800+08:00","text":"另外，高通當時用一個全世界獨家的方式來和解，說這7億美元要投資臺灣，請問這7億美元有投資嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪財隆被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T14:15:36.546800+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-30T14:15:41.091000+08:00","text":"目前已經超過14億美元，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:15:41.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:15:41.631000+08:00","text":"目前多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪財隆被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T14:15:42.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:15:45.313000+08:00","text":"在2022年年底已經超過14億美元。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:15:45.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:15:48.535000+08:00","text":"到2022年才開始投資嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪財隆被提名人","start":"2024-12-30T14:15:48.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:15:51.076000+08:00","text":"不是，因為我們有五年的專案，是從2018開始到2023結束。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:15:51.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:15:57.940000+08:00","text":"有關於高通的案子，我講了這麼多，對於當時能輕騎過關，是因為當時在立法院的整個結構下，好像沒有什麼人關心這個案子。","quality":0.725},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:15:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:16:22.075000+08:00","text":"一個全世界獨家，然後傷害我們臺灣產業的案子，和解金從234億變成27億，竟然還拒絕提供監察院相關的錄音帶，我覺得這都是極不適任的。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-12-30T14:16:23.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-12-30T14:16:33.867000+08:00","text":"這次你是唯一要續任的，原來的郭淑貞委員這次不再續任，我覺得這件事情必須在這一次的續任案裡面，讓大家全面的來檢視以及檢討。以上。謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-30T14:16:34.367000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-30T14:16:38.938429+08:00","text":"下一位陳亭妃、陳亭妃、陳亭妃委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-30T14:16:39.238429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-30T14:16:42.952714+08:00","text":"張嘉郡、張嘉郡、張嘉郡委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-30T14:16:43.252714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-30T14:16:46.967000+08:00","text":"洪孟楷、洪孟楷、洪孟楷委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-30T14:16:47.267000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-30T14:16:50.981286+08:00","text":"黃國昌、黃國昌、黃國昌委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-30T14:16:51.281286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-30T14:16:58.424143+08:00","text":"登記發言的委員除不在場之外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-30T14:16:58.724143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-30T14:17:02.438429+08:00","text":"現在請洪財隆被提名人先離席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-30T14:17:02.738429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-30T14:17:04.452714+08:00","text":"我們休息3分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-30T14:17:04.752714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-30T14:17:05.895571+08:00","text":"休息（14時17分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-12-30T14:17:06.195571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-12-30T14:17:07.909857+08:00","text":"繼續開會（14時20分）","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}