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MANGA"},{"start":1778.769,"end":1779.45,"text":"主席"},{"start":1793.516,"end":1812.117,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議．事落時間113年4月24日星期三9時至12時50分地點紅紅101會議室出席委員林大化委員等14人列席委員洪孟凱委員等17人列席人員經濟部長"},{"start":1813.619,"end":1835.176,"text":"王美花及相關人員、主計總處、內政部、勞動部、環境部、法務部等單位代表、主席、邱昭及委員議員報告事項一、宣讀上次會議事務決定、確定二、處理113年度中央政府總預算有關經濟部及所屬主管預算凍結案等17案經濟部含為113年度中央政府總預算決議檢証"},{"start":1837.898,"end":1842.842,"text":"一、經濟部投資師引覽外國專業人才預算凍結300萬元書面報告案二、經濟部資訊處數位應用與資安認証資訊服務費預算凍結5%書面報告案三、經濟部投資師促進投資預算凍結300萬元書面報告案"},{"start":1858.465,"end":1860.846,"text":"4.經濟部投資師促進投資預算凍結100萬元書面報告案5."},{"start":1860.846,"end":1863.346,"text":"產發署工業技術升級輔導預算凍結1000萬元書面報告案6."},{"start":1863.346,"end":1864.867,"text":"產發署工業技術升級輔導預算凍結2000萬元書面報告案7."},{"start":1864.867,"end":1865.887,"text":"國貿署資訊服務費預算凍結160萬元書面報告案8."},{"start":1865.887,"end":1867.548,"text":"國貿署國際貿易預算凍結500萬元書面報告案9."},{"start":1867.548,"end":1867.828,"text":"標準局及所屬標準"},{"start":1885.553,"end":1898.491,"text":"檢驗及度證管理預算凍結300萬元書面報告案、10水利署及所屬水利建設及保育管理預算凍結500萬元書面報告案、11水利署及所屬水利建設及保育管理預算凍結1%書面報告案"},{"start":1901.575,"end":1917.827,"text":"12水利署及所屬水利建設及保育管理通訊費預算凍結600萬元書面報告案13商業署促進商業科技發展預算凍結100萬元書面報告案14商發署健全商業環境向下資訊服務費預算凍結100萬元"},{"start":1920.489,"end":1923.33,"text":"15.三幫署推動商業服務業轉型成長預算凍結100萬元書面報告案16."},{"start":1923.33,"end":1923.93,"text":"產業園區管理局及所屬產業園區業務預算凍結100萬元書面報告案17."},{"start":1923.93,"end":1927.591,"text":"地調及礦業管理中心總稅出預算凍結200萬元書面報告案決定第一案至第17案書面報告均送達預算均得以動之女巨審查報告提報院會"},{"start":1949.296,"end":1959.683,"text":"討論事項依審查113年度中央政府總預算有關經濟部及所屬主管預算凍結案等4案經濟部含為113年度中央政府總預算決議檢証依經濟部產業技術師科技專案預算凍結1億5000萬元書面報告案"},{"start":1969.851,"end":1992.174,"text":"討論事項和並詢答委員黃建斌、楊瓊英、張祺凱及林思明說明提案要指經濟部長王美花報告號委員林黛樺等19人提出質詢經由經濟部王部長及內政部消防署副組長杜汪濤及相關人員及其答覆登記發表員處不在場者外區域均與發表完畢詢答結束委員陳超明、鍾嘉斌、陳冠廷"},{"start":1993.055,"end":2005.869,"text":"所提書面職學內容記錄刊登公報,書面職學和未及答覆部分請相當於週內以書面答覆並附資本會二檢送經濟部一般行政預算凍結一百萬元書面報告案,三水利署"},{"start":2007.188,"end":2024.565,"text":"水利建設及保育管理預算凍結1%書面報告案、市農委員署一般行政預算凍結100萬元書面報告案、決議第一案之第四案均同意動之理據報告提報院會二審查行政院行政院行情審議、工廠管理輔導法第28條之14、第31條及第39條條文修正草案"},{"start":2029.71,"end":2048.027,"text":"2、本院委員黃潔等人擬具工廠管理輔導法部分條文修正草案案3、委員黃建斌等人擬具工廠管理輔導法第28條之14、第31條及第39條條文修正草案案4、委員林思明等人擬具工廠管理輔導法第22條及第29條條文修正草案案"},{"start":2048.867,"end":2062.518,"text":"5、委員王美惠等人擬具工廠管理輔導法第31條條文修正草案案6、委員邱盈等人擬具工廠管理輔導法第31條條文修正草案案7、委員蔡玉儀等人擬具工廠管理輔導法第28條至14第31條及第39條條文修正草案案"},{"start":2067.001,"end":2073.786,"text":"8.委員馬文君等人拟據《工廠管理輔導法》第28條之14及第31條條文修正草案案9."},{"start":2073.786,"end":2078.589,"text":"委員鍾嘉斌等人拟據《工廠管理輔導法》部分條文修正草案案10."},{"start":2078.589,"end":2082.712,"text":"委員楊秋英等人拟據《工廠管理輔導法》第28條之14及第31條及第39條條文修正草案案11."},{"start":2082.712,"end":2085.614,"text":"台灣民眾黨團拟據《工廠管理輔導法》第28條之14及第31條及第39條條文修正草案案"},{"start":2096.901,"end":2115.729,"text":"委員中嘉賓等人分別所提第22條條文均不予通過維持現行法條文。第二十八條之十四條文照行政院提案與行政院提案內容相同之各委員提案通過。三、文明、私民等人所提第29條條文不予通過維持現行法條文。"},{"start":2116.429,"end":2142.108,"text":"第31條條文,照行政院提案及與行政院提案內容相同之各委員提案通過。 五,委員黃婕等人所提第31條條文,不予通過。 六,第39條條文,照行政院提案及與行政院提案內容相同之各委員提案通過。 七,並按審查文據拟據審查報告提報院會討論,不須交由黨團協商並推請。 求召及委員予以院會討論時作補充說明。 散會宣錄完畢。"},{"start":2145.506,"end":2166.681,"text":"好,請問各位同仁上次的會議議事錄有錯誤?沒有,我們議事錄確認那現在進行討論事項請宣讀繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管台灣自來水股份有限公司今日處理已宣讀完畢"},{"start":2172.055,"end":2179.001,"text":"討論事項所列議程台水公司預算委員會在3月21日已經詢答完畢並於4月3日就審查項目與委員提案宣讀完畢我們現在進行逐項審查依據預算法第50條及相關規定照業務計劃部分營業收入及生產成本轉投資計劃"},{"start":2199.318,"end":2226.911,"text":"重大之建設事業資金運用以及補辦預算部分逐項審查現在進行協商好來我們各位同仁我們首先是營業收入的部分來請教各位營業收入的部分有增略第一案有單位委員增略20億請行政部門來說明"},{"start":2240.272,"end":2257.266,"text":"各位委員,大家早安。有關第一案,委員有希望公司這邊在營業收入增列20億元。那這邊,水公司這邊做說明,因為水價未調整,積水收入實在是難移。"},{"start":2258.047,"end":2279.04,"text":"大幅成長。委員所提示的就是新莊收入的部分。今年度我們的預算已經比去年112年的預算增累了有9100萬。其他的收入包括離島虧損補助收入,這個是以公部門的水利署來對邊預算。"},{"start":2281.101,"end":2291.164,"text":"那公司這邊也會爭取中央政府這邊用公務預算來預助減緩擠債的壓力那營業收入增加確實是有困難懇請委員大力來支持謝謝那最後委員來來一位那個賴立文委員"},{"start":2303.103,"end":2318.89,"text":"好,我就尊重這個經濟部份太子的公司不過還是希望你們持續的努力持續努力來讓整個財務狀況更加的一些改善還有好的一些獲利機會還是要持續來努力好,那這案我就該主席了"},{"start":2319.17,"end":2344.038,"text":"好 那個那位委員該主決議 那個邱議員要不要發言這不發言齁 那政監裁委員那在營業收入的部分呢 主席在這邊補充因為我們上次在公司週年慶的時候本席也特別提出我們可以有很多的應用我們自己的資產我們的本業當然就是要安全提供這個水給民眾"},{"start":2344.938,"end":2366.99,"text":"但是呢我們有很多相對的資產比如說我們的管理處我們的淨水廠有很多是都非常耐死的地方而且是我們的寶貝那這個呢是怎麼樣去一夜結合能夠讓我們的本業以外的支出的收入會增加我覺得這個公司上次我們也討論過應該可以做一個專案去討論"},{"start":2370.512,"end":2382.176,"text":"全世界人不只台灣瞭解到我們台灣自來水的歷程以及之美我覺得這個非常重要你們也專案去討論好不好因為從上一次到現在也已經快一個多月了那因為今天在回答的時候你們還是很保守的說你們怎麼樣去在本業方面但是沒有聽到這一塊所以我特別再補充好不好研討請方案提出謝謝"},{"start":2400.401,"end":2430.401,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":2430.401,"end":2430.942,"text":"第5案到第11案請做說明"},{"start":2440.062,"end":2463.392,"text":"第5案是服務費用,張家俊委員要減列3000萬。第6案一樣是張家俊委員提出來要凍結我們的服務費用,用戶新設及水裝置成本凍結11分。第7案是謝易鳳委員等人要減列我們的服務費用的水電費2億元。"},{"start":2465.374,"end":2480.251,"text":"第8案是張家俊等委員要檢列我們的水電費2000萬元第9案是邱益穎委員等要檢列我們服務費用的修理保養保固費檢列100萬元"},{"start":2482.854,"end":2508.804,"text":"第10案是賴瑞榮等委員要檢列我們的服務費用暫處包裝代理及加工費要檢列1000萬元總結5%那第11案是賴瑞榮等委員那個董事長這個上面已經都有寫了我們只要你說明好不好說明你們的立場怎麼樣好不好"},{"start":2510.043,"end":2514.375,"text":"好,那就第5案的部分"},{"start":2517.399,"end":2539.967,"text":"第4到11案的部分那最主要服務費用是動力費、管線修復費還有用戶水量機的拆放經費等那113年4月份因為電價又漲幅達15%一估將增加本公司的動力費有5億6千244萬元"},{"start":2542.813,"end":2563.764,"text":"那除了扣除水電費之外主要是有電費還有修理保養保固外包費那113年度的預算我們已叫112年度的預算減編那本案經會竊屬業務的需要懇請委員大力來支持好經過行政部門的說明請教各位同仁有沒有意見"},{"start":2565.843,"end":2593.66,"text":"來,那任委員我知道當然台水的經費相當節俱不過還是希望持續來遵節好不好那我想我就支持台水的預算好,持續遵節齁那就不剪不動那其他委員在沒有意見主席台要做決議之前我聽取大家意見主席有一項想要請教你們的水電電在這一次4月1號漲價有沒有納在你們目前的數字裡頭"},{"start":2596.443,"end":2621.856,"text":"目前我們這個預算編的是兩年前編的對啊所以你應該這個董事長在這邊我也希望啦因為台水大家都很支持但是部長不容易坐在這邊你們要講真實的啊我們今天通過的預算根本也不是你真的預算啊所以當然這個是突然4月1號那你應該我舉一個例你應該告訴我們4月1號"},{"start":2624.837,"end":2647.892,"text":"我們現在已經提案9月不能夠開所以如果在9月沒有漲的時候4月1號漲到年底你們會增加多少我們要聽的是你們行政部門所提出你們的立場是怎麼樣而不是不提那到時候我們決算的時候還是並決算那我們立法委員這個都是錄音錄影會讓民眾來挑戰我們應該大家共同"},{"start":2651.974,"end":2667.242,"text":"一起團結努力把真實的問題拿出來才對嘛所以我要求你再說明一下4月1號照你們現在所編4月1號你們公共電到年底你要增加多少這個才是我們要聽的嘛好不好"},{"start":2669.144,"end":2683.223,"text":"4月1日因為這個電價的一個漲幅我們出估因為有高壓跟低壓平均的漲幅大概15%所以公司大概會增加我們出估4月1日到年底會增加5億6千萬左右"},{"start":2684.977,"end":2687.118,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位"},{"start":2705.882,"end":2727.088,"text":"也就是你這個4月1日因為漲價不管你什麼種電平均值自來水公司漲幅是15%所以你等於4月份的電價到12月底的電價必須要增加5億6千萬是不是這樣子還不包括突然狀況的嘛現在正規是5億6千萬那這怎麼處理呢"},{"start":2728.677,"end":2734.362,"text":"我們大概會爭取由行政院這邊看看有一些的公預算的補助"},{"start":2744.878,"end":2765.435,"text":"你講這個就對了啦,台電也很出行正義啦,我們自來水股份是最辛苦的沒有理由經濟部行政院不支持我們啊因為你這個5億6千萬,如果你要並決算的時候那你等於營業收入成本、營業支出全部整本預算要全部亂掉"},{"start":2766.856,"end":2781.923,"text":"所以這個突發狀況你是不是部長你是不是可以趕快說一下這個部分是不是你們要怎麼樣去處理要不然我們今天審查這個預算整本預算的數字都歪掉了都不正確了來請做說明謝謝委員那預算邊是沒有問題但是因為確實現在大家對台水的那個降漏期待很深那現在就是降漏如果到10%其實付出的成本"},{"start":2794.969,"end":2807.498,"text":"都會遠高於受益也就是說部長現在要在你你你focus在我們講電因為這個是很直球對決的問題你那個5億6他們現在計算出來要怎麼處理本價請問這個所以我們就針對這樣的台水的這樣的一個重要的基礎建設我們有爭取經濟那個行政院齁在明年來編相關的預算來挹注台水公司"},{"start":2821.607,"end":2821.767,"text":"來,賴任委員"},{"start":2850.425,"end":2870.439,"text":"那我建議部長啦,其實這個5億多的這個經費還是要全力來爭取行政院來支持,然後因為台水中央確實是相當,而且又這些因素不是台水所主要造成的,我覺得這個要爭取,那另外是它的那個醬肉那一塊也要持續來爭取好不好,這兩個恐怕都要請部長大力再繼續個人選擇我的意思是說現在爭取因為確實"},{"start":2872.76,"end":2872.86,"text":"是,是,是。"},{"start":2895.375,"end":2911.65,"text":"張吉卡維我來幫應該是幫經濟部特別幫台水、幫人民、幫民眾打抱不平啦剛剛講那個虧損五億多那個我看了一筆更嚴重的我們到外面那個買水啊外國的對不對跟農水署跟水利署買水一年38億4178萬"},{"start":2915.838,"end":2932.364,"text":"對行政院來講可能左手拿到右手去可是對台水就很不公平啊對不對你說虧損的也累所以現在上水價嘛對不對可是你裡面的錢你為什麼要花這38億4千多萬這個應該直接以後就不要買啦這筆錢省下來啦"},{"start":2934.425,"end":2952.946,"text":"請問部長在笑,應該往這方向走啊?這是跟營料會啦,我們跟水利署他有水資源諸位基金有跟3個水資源分署來購水的費用他跟農水署一樣有一用部分的農業用水也要跟他這個購水的費用要給農水署"},{"start":2953.246,"end":2965.556,"text":"部長跟那個 董事長我跟他分析一下為什麼要跟農水署買水為什麼你們要跟他買水那以前是農業社會嘛這應該是民國40幾年定的策略現在已經變成工業社會了"},{"start":2967.377,"end":2989.253,"text":"這樣一個方式非常不好是什麼地方?你自來水你這邊已經是虧錢對不對?你又去買這38億,你現在錢要多少?你如果直接以後就跟行政院講清楚,你不要再買了,這38億不要買了對不對?這左手跟右手的問題嘛,利息錢就省下來對不對?第二個利息錢省,然後這個38億又省,你的虧損就減少啦,就不要漲水價了好不好?"},{"start":2990.094,"end":2999.993,"text":"我先凍結一小部分的預算阿你們提一個報告給行政院爭取一下我們也幫你講話我們幫你們打抱不平老實講也是幫人民打抱不平阿最重要這樣水價就不用漲了"},{"start":3003.9,"end":3028.841,"text":"是不是對我們其實不僅幫不僅從水利所我們還跟那個臺北市水利還要買水那個還比較貴一點點所以現在就是說因為各自有不同的水權那所以我們就變成是我們就需要買這些對臺水來說都是他的原料他買了這個水之後還要淨化等等然後才能夠賣給消費者所以目前的國內的機制是這個樣子"},{"start":3031.946,"end":3057.188,"text":"老天給的嘛 對不對那為什麼當初訂了因為農業社會嘛所以農水署他就管走了嘛 對不對正常他應該把是對以後沒有我這樣子好不好我很具體的建議好不好你處理你處理等一下來不是書面報告我做兩個要求齁我等一下可以把這個凍結預算變成主決議可是要做兩件事情第一個你要極力跟行政院爭取"},{"start":3058.103,"end":3082.53,"text":"每一年這個過水的預算你是沒有38億錢免的話至少要一半或怎麼樣嘛你的虧損就減少了嘛你的利息也會減少嘛我們人民可能就因為這樣不用漲水價這是一個好不好跟行政院爭取我跟你講齁在總諮詢跟到時候在經濟部諮詢的時候我還會問這一題的因為這對人民造成負擔不是只有對台水喔對人民也造成負擔利息的錢"},{"start":3083.37,"end":3085.912,"text":"主席臺這邊宣告一下齁 終結剛剛所有的委員你看我們張祺凱委員多支持自來水他沒有提案都是說要改組決議"},{"start":3104.947,"end":3133.219,"text":"對不對那各位同仁是不是這樣子齁因為大家也知道自來水的辛苦但是我們還是要以實際張教委員講的非常的有道理是不是我們請我們來做兩項主決議第一個部長還有董事長在這邊第一個針對於4月1號漲價致使台水公司必須到年底要增加5億6的經費由行政院支應之這第一個主計"},{"start":3134.459,"end":3152.23,"text":"主決議,第二個也就是買水的因為有這個水源的問題第二個主決議就是針對買水的水量以及這個金額請台水公司跟相關的這個單位去協調"},{"start":3155.392,"end":3175.359,"text":"運用各種方式就是你們去協調看看去總檢討有什麼迴旋的空間好不好我們給你們因為我們今天做成主決議的目的也就是讓你跟台北市自來水跟我們的這個這個農水署你你靠辣手去跟他們講這樣子才能夠真正去解決問題好不好做這兩項決議"},{"start":3178.66,"end":3183.982,"text":"今天大家協助你們的漏水問題你說漏水問題你要解決你還要很長遠的時間我們已經在解決藍莓之急"},{"start":3206.77,"end":3209.811,"text":"從第5案到第11案有委員提案的有在現場的就是照原列數是嗎?"},{"start":3235.811,"end":3236.291,"text":"第9案,你們能不能略減100?"},{"start":3250.787,"end":3263.24,"text":"來 保固費 可以嗎 第9案 保用的啦 跟保固的 他因為我們今年度的水量計的汰換 達到121萬隻 那因為這個"},{"start":3268.735,"end":3269.216,"text":"第9案測案第11案改為主決議"},{"start":3293.901,"end":3320.88,"text":"第10案跟第11案來記錄清楚都改為主決議那麼我們的服務費用呢就照列那剛剛有兩項的決議齊凱委員所提到一個各位委員共同所討論的那兩項決議送上主席來我們待會一併處理好繼續我們第12案跟第13案第12案跟第13案齊凱委員的是在第13案來請行政部門"},{"start":3322.242,"end":3322.403,"text":"12月13日"},{"start":3326.363,"end":3355.44,"text":"我們最近就是水利署做水資源的調度那就我們剛才有提過了水利署因為這個極端氣候的影響我們要跟北水處多移用一些水量那另外我們為了保育地下水我們營商地區我們現在是都慢慢用人鳥嘴談人工湖的湖水所以我們原有的地下的水井就撿湊了所以我們的目前變成是我們"},{"start":3357.096,"end":3357.216,"text":"第11屆第11屆第11屆"},{"start":3374.974,"end":3395.998,"text":"來"},{"start":3399.453,"end":3423.624,"text":"李董事長,你們的自有水源希望能夠逐年增加你們開源當然也要節省那你如果自有水源越多、比例越高那你這個外購的這個水源的成本就會降低嘛對你整年,每年都差不多元清水費用差不多將近要40億嘛是我希望能夠逐年調降"},{"start":3424.845,"end":3450.877,"text":"你沒有開源提高自由水源的短中長期計劃比如說美尼你要提升到多少比例自由水源的供水量有多少3年內你要提升到多少比例自由水源多少量5年之內、10年之內我希望你提出短中長期的自由水源的供水量"},{"start":3452.352,"end":3457.985,"text":"跟這個比例以後才檢驗說你們到底有沒有努力去開拓自由水源"},{"start":3459.25,"end":3486.048,"text":"這個你回答一下好不好好,跟委員報告齁,其實水公司跟水利署一般的水源開發比較大型的都是由水利署他們來主導那水公司是開發一些比較小型的地下水井跟湖流水那像澎湖地區現在在開發那個海淡水那海淡水的部分這個部分我們也要跟操作廠商這邊來購水齁,原先我們抽的地下水井確實也有一些研發的問題"},{"start":3487.089,"end":3506.296,"text":"所以在澎湖地區那塊開發地下水也是不太可行那本島的部分我們現在講的就是說一些浮流水的開發我們有積極在研擬不過這個還是要跟水利署這邊來搭配相關後續的計畫那比較大型的還是要由水利署這邊來主導"},{"start":3507.332,"end":3507.572,"text":"海淡廠"},{"start":3523.772,"end":3550.468,"text":"在北高雄要設立一個擁有性的海淡廠地點也確定了、時程也確定了120年要供應水10萬噸每天這預算是120億當然這個主政者是水利署那這個10萬噸的供水他除了可以北高雄跟南台南之外除了工業用水另外他可以民生用水"},{"start":3555.787,"end":3556.247,"text":"您知道嗎?"},{"start":3556.247,"end":3557.688,"text":"可以喝水嗎?"},{"start":3557.688,"end":3558.969,"text":"有喝過嗎?"},{"start":3558.969,"end":3575.739,"text":"那個水質也還不錯所以未來是不是也可以考慮跟未來的海淡廠去合作取得比較便宜的海淡廠所供應的自來水讓你們自有率能夠提高"},{"start":3577.168,"end":3594.109,"text":"你一定要有短中長期1、3、5、10年的計畫。你要有個承諾,你要有個計畫表。 我不知道給你支持跟檢驗。海淡水我們還是要跟操作商去購水的。"},{"start":3596.055,"end":3599.016,"text":"1、3、5、10年短中長期,你們預計自由水源要提高多少比例?發水量是多少量?用哪些方式?"},{"start":3620.174,"end":3643.148,"text":"主席,我剛剛這樣的詢問他有答應短中長期的計畫這個計畫一個月之內,董事長一個月可能你寫不出來了三個月之內,完整的報告包括你們這個水源的來源方式都要寫得很清楚好不好"},{"start":3645.442,"end":3651.524,"text":"主席我想要請教這個自來水公司就是說我們在講這個漏水率那基本上我們知道大概在沿海地區因為那裡基本上"},{"start":3672.721,"end":3673.982,"text":"中央政府總預算案．"},{"start":3683.641,"end":3704.136,"text":"提高提升他的強度比方都把他變成這個ht和p的他他的強度是高強度的他就可以大幅解決漏水率這個偏高的一個狀況所以我想要知道說我們自來水公司有沒有類似這樣的計劃把沿海地區這一種這個"},{"start":3706.397,"end":3706.417,"text":"議員：總裁"},{"start":3722.201,"end":3747.256,"text":"謝謝蔡委員感謝蔡委員關心這個議題其實確實在沿海地區的地理條件就是說它可能有些研化所以它腐蝕性比較高那自來水埋在地底下如果是金屬管的話就容易鏽蝕造成漏水所以我們公司這邊對降低漏水率的計畫我們也請我們各首屬的區管理處在執行的時候在管財的顯用設計上一定要"},{"start":3747.896,"end":3748.637,"text":"我們都有充分的一個考量"},{"start":3766.998,"end":3782.483,"text":"蔡委員的意思就是在沿海地區的要優先趕快做啦 這樣一定是兩個嘛 越老舊的越先處理嘛 對不對 沿海地區有研發問題啊 我們都自己的 所以沿海趕快做 看能不能優先沿海的地方先汰換"},{"start":3783.516,"end":3803.115,"text":"那你本來你過去都金屬管之上都已經秀死而且以數據來說我看過你們的數據你們在沿海地區的漏水率就是比其他地方還要來得高所以這裡應該是要優先解決的地方 是我們會來盤點漏水率高的地方我們會優先來辦理管線的更新"},{"start":3804.075,"end":3805.577,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":3830.379,"end":3859.435,"text":"水公司協助所以你那個供水費用使用材料費我想本期建議這個全數照列來其他委員還有沒有來那面請教董事長這邊你們的材料費用用品這個部分供水費用是資材的部分來水源的部分是另外就是剛剛那個38億多那個38億多是水源的部分所以這個全部都是資材的部分"},{"start":3860.407,"end":3880.499,"text":"這就是原料要跟水利署跟農水署購水的費用。這個11億包括在30...管線不是,不是管線。 沒有沒有,你這個是包括你買水的部分嗎?你現在針對於章祺凱委員所說的11億的這個部分項目是什麼?材料及用品費對不對?"},{"start":3880.499,"end":3884.681,"text":"是用材料購水費用的部分是跟北水處購水的部分11億"},{"start":3886.936,"end":3908.615,"text":"是錢嗎?是那個買水的費用嗎?是買水的費用嗎?所以跟剛剛我們有幾位委員講的是不一樣的,它不是資財的部分啊?你要講清楚啊?對啊,講了半天,要講清楚這不是資財,這是買水跟台北市這個買水的費用是如此,那我請教,那去年度呢也一樣這個經費嗎?"},{"start":3911.077,"end":3932.579,"text":"五年也一樣這個數量跟這個錢嗎?對,對,大概都是這樣子這幾年都是一樣這樣子?對對,而且有在增加有在增加因為水利署開發中部的鳥水潭人工湖以後已經我們已經跟他購水了,已經在出水那這一塊就會增加我們的購水的費用"},{"start":3935.004,"end":3960.359,"text":"那這個邏輯他這個部分是給自來水事業處買水的費用不是資產的部分這個要講清楚這第一點第二個你說逐年再增加那經濟部長在這邊你今天自來水主要買水的部分有兩個大項第一個台北市自來水第二個就是農水署"},{"start":3961.562,"end":3968.653,"text":"還有個水利署對還有水利署那這個都是利署在我們政府部門為什麼不幫助我們自來水呢?"},{"start":3970.089,"end":3970.629,"text":"為什麼呢?"},{"start":3970.629,"end":3971.73,"text":"都是公部門啊!"},{"start":3971.73,"end":3973.051,"text":"為什麼不幫助呢?"},{"start":3973.051,"end":3976.033,"text":"這邏輯很奇怪啊!你叫人家不是你家裡的要減少,你自己家裡的不減少了怎麼可能?"},{"start":3976.033,"end":3978.174,"text":"那我們自己水利署跟農水署呢?"},{"start":3996.655,"end":4017.19,"text":"我們也有跟農水署在協調那個沿水的費用。 部長,我們自己公部門我們趕靠找欸,我們不協助自來水,任由他們每一年虧損,讓員工背這麼大的黑鍋。 那有人這樣欸,你自己不解決家裡的事情,你直接要跑去問人家,人家會問啊,你們減少多少,我再跟啊,那怎麼辦?"},{"start":4019.571,"end":4033.812,"text":"你要真正去解決今天我們省自來水預算喔我們絕對全力支持自來水但是你要協助他們啊你行政部門你主管不支持你永遠怎麼樣漏水率"},{"start":4034.933,"end":4035.994,"text":"你自己內部趕快找進來講吧 怎麼辦 部長回答一下吧"},{"start":4054.055,"end":4056.057,"text":"水利署開發一個新的水源開發那個水給"},{"start":4083.835,"end":4103.258,"text":"臺水之後他會賣給消費者所以他開發了水源之後那後續會有水的作業基金那會做在後續再做其他的開發或者水環境的維護那臺北市政府就是回吹水庫那回吹水庫就是因為水權是回吹水庫那還在維運等等所以他的水來"},{"start":4104.059,"end":4104.66,"text":"臺北市自來水公司來做商量。"},{"start":4120.981,"end":4126.122,"text":"將能不能再做降一點加但是因為現在長期以來機制就是這個水權是歸誰的那台水如果不是自己的水權那當然就要付相關的這個材料費的成本目前的巨資這樣那因為像那個農水署他們收了這個錢以後他們也會有他們的這個相關來扶植農民的這個需求"},{"start":4146.807,"end":4174.088,"text":"所以大概已經這個已經讓了非常多年都是這個機制。 如果這樣部長你所做的就不機會啊。 不讓機會啦。 來請哪一位。 我來說明齁。 剛才部長講的我就以水利署為例那個是法例明定的啦那個是法例明定最後是給人民的基本上大部分是給"},{"start":4175.202,"end":4180.566,"text":"臺水因為買了這麼多在外面去買水嘛對不對一年38億多嘛然後我們的員工就被黑鍋嘛"},{"start":4205.562,"end":4223.016,"text":"然後第一個因為虧損太大所以有一個利息錢嘛 對不對第二個因為虧損太大更嚴重的就是水費可能要調漲嘛 對不對這三個都很不合理啊員工背黑鍋又要付利息錢一般老百姓又受苦所以可能要上架那可以檢討啊我去查就是部長剛剛講沒錯啊民國40幾年的時候為什麼這個你要跟農水署買買水"},{"start":4229.301,"end":4244.534,"text":"因為以前是農業社會啊,農業用的水最重要嘛,對不對?所以水在跟他管,可是那個水是老天給的水啊。就剛剛主席講的啊,你要你來管,台水來管,或者農水水來管都可以啊。而且從農業社會已經進到工業社會啊。"},{"start":4245.856,"end":4274.196,"text":"所以這個錢是可以省下來我覺得可以透過行政院你們提一個案子包括部長支持然後台水提一個案子跟行政院講清楚這個時代背景已經不一樣了不要讓你們付這個利息錢不要花這個錢跟農水署去買水好不好這個錢就省下來那第二個剛剛講的如果是台北市政府毀碎水庫可以去談價格稍微低一點點啊欸當初為什麼要買水就是跟他建那個水庫有關係嘛對不對那水庫貪欸 農 毀碎水庫多少年了那個成本應該也要降了吧"},{"start":4275.057,"end":4295.513,"text":"有行政院出面去談好不好,所以至少第一個提一個案子給行政院收農水屬的錢能不能以後就手手到右手而已嘛,不要讓你們再背黑鍋了,然後那個肥碎水庫的、背水的我們去談把價格降下來好不好,這個就是我們剛剛主席講的這個主決議,我們把它講清楚好不好好謝謝,那現在那任委員再來謝一芬委員再來秋樹委員齁,我們再來做決議的齁,謝謝"},{"start":4296.914,"end":4324.759,"text":"我是建議就叫剛剛大家這樣建議跟部長建議是不是就請部長、經濟部這邊回去再溝通跟剛剛不管是兩個單位間的那怎麼樣把這個能夠再做一些調整的部分那也提一個順便報告給我們好不好我們討論這個的結果提一個順便報告我們把這個整個的關係然後現在的情形包括你們溝通完的結果溝通完的結果也提一份給我們好不好然後後續我們想要怎麼做等等那我是建議這個預算是不是就照例啦好不好好謝謝來接下來是一份委員"},{"start":4329.833,"end":4348.609,"text":"就如同剛才幾位委員所說的就是台水跟其他的相關的政府部門的單位不管是中央政府或是地方政府那調度水源的部分我們當然希望協調出對民眾最有利的那但是我們也想到了就是節水節能的這個部分"},{"start":4349.229,"end":4368.442,"text":"那的確未來還是有持續發展的這個可能性那當然了我也想要等一下請部長也順便回答其實我們看到剛才我們就希望政府部門可以負擔台水因應電價上漲的部分那其實我們也會擔心說就是未來"},{"start":4369.022,"end":4393.213,"text":"如果一直在用再生能源或者是用光電等等的時候 那個價格高漲那目前以就是那種彈性民眾的消費彈性來講可能會造成我們的物價上漲的這些疑慮等等那未來你的繼任者郭部長他也說了就是說不排除核電延逸的這樣子的可能性"},{"start":4394.793,"end":4419.603,"text":"我想要請問一下王部長你的看法是什麼因為畢竟你在這個經濟部已經這麼久的時間那到底就是核電演繹的政策以及讓核電就是說是不是這也是比較屬於民眾的共識因為大家也會擔心現在又有地震頻傳等等跳電的問題那是不是用"},{"start":4420.183,"end":4435.136,"text":"何電來養我們的綠能,是不是比較是可行的方式?好,那邱志偉委員,我們一併再回答,謝謝最後邱志偉,有沒有要再講?剛剛張吉蓋委員說的,其實我已經講了10幾年了"},{"start":4440.393,"end":4455.4,"text":"這個你要跟其他經濟部其他單位或是臺北市政府主管相關的水公司去談價格能不能優惠我覺得這個先知道水利署有他的稅率稅數也有相關的法律規定如果"},{"start":4456.704,"end":4473.555,"text":"當然最好可以免費,水利署直接可以供應給你們,對不對?但事實上它有整個會計制度,每一個二級機關、三級機關或者國營事業都有它的這個制度,所以其實有的,如果可以突破的話,等於10年前就突破了。"},{"start":4474.695,"end":4493.553,"text":"為什麼不能突破?我想了解其中的原因在哪裡?我們協助是法律規定呢?還是這個各地方本位主義?還是什麼其他的因素?我想這個部分是要幫你們解決問題舉個例子來說,現在台電、中油都要設立案封店,都要開了封廠"},{"start":4495.543,"end":4519.915,"text":"基本上國營事業要互相支持、互相開放、互相協助,對不對?所以它的業變、它的離岸風機應該要跟中鋼買,對不對?這個經濟部可以控制嗎?經濟部也沒有辦法控制嘛,因為它站在成本考量,它就必須不跟中鋼這個新達海基買,要跟其他的這個廠商去買。"},{"start":4521.648,"end":4544.962,"text":"這個就是你們難言之隱。 你們在讓成本考量。 你們在壞記者制度的設計問題。 所以我今天齁,剛剛張棋杰委員提出這個問題很好啦齁。 雖然已經提了十幾年了齁。 但是能夠在今年大家一起面對來解決看看能不能把你們成本降低。 比較好的條件讓你們成本降低也節省國庫的支出啦。"},{"start":4547.939,"end":4569.594,"text":"謝謝智慧十幾年前台水很有錢啊你最近虧損成這樣子要趕快徵訊這個問題不是只有在台水台電也是嘛對不對台電那個離島離島的那個電費本來應該政府出的啊現在都叫台電去出啊台電就虧損累累啊狀況跟你台水不是一樣所以我記得整個國營是國營稅就是人民的錢嘛對不對人民的嘛我記得國營稅現在要站出來"},{"start":4570.314,"end":4572.895,"text":"最後我們這一個部分最後就請陳寗威委員發言結束我們請行政部門回答我們就要做決議謝謝"},{"start":4587.741,"end":4591.025,"text":"為什麼你的材料會去減幅?減幅的部分到底是為什麼?"},{"start":4601.618,"end":4604.12,"text":"以上委員所提出請行政部門一併做回答來跟"},{"start":4631.449,"end":4641.079,"text":"陳委員這邊報告我們這個材料是我們購水的費用不是我們管線開放的這個材料的費用"},{"start":4643.149,"end":4664.995,"text":"是我們買像跟藍水買鹽水的費用就水庫的水或是河川的水鹽水的費用所以你們自己你們這個所謂科目的科目表你們寫的是有點問題的"},{"start":4671.679,"end":4685.543,"text":"行政部門我再次主席台再說明我們這個議案討論的快半個鐘頭了來我們終結大家的意見這個預算是有包含了資材也有包含過水"},{"start":4687.204,"end":4704.18,"text":"這個購水呢是台北市自來水事業處也有跟農水署也有跟這個水利署包括原水買都是在這個38億多的當中那這11億多是針對於台北市自來水的這個部分它裡面的指向"},{"start":4705.101,"end":4724.13,"text":"我們剛剛也有做成兩項的決議第一個也就是這個電費因為剛剛有的委員還沒到電費的部分從4月1號開始增加5億6就由行政院來支應之第二個部分就針對他們購水的部分包括以上剛剛所說的三個單位請"},{"start":4726.331,"end":4742.202,"text":"經濟部協助行政院協助我們的這個台水公司去跟他們做談判去跟他們做談判那這個部分呢既然我們的疑點還是很多我就這樣建議請教各位這一個部分12案跟13案我們就凍結100萬啊你們趕快去做好嗎請教各位同仁好那就照以上剛剛的決議那兩項這個主決議有沒有在哪裡"},{"start":4755.733,"end":4758.455,"text":"主席,你那個凍結100萬是提書面報告就解凍還是?對對對對對,我們給你們一個靠山,主決議兩個都提好了嗎?"},{"start":4770.1,"end":4797.788,"text":"主決議好了嗎?簽在哪裡?我們相管的文字寫好再給委員。還沒?文字還沒好了?好趕快寫好來那我們繼續寫好再來。好主決議待會處理。來接下來我們針對第14案營業費用已經這個天才委員改主決議。好謝謝。那第15案跟第16案我個人呃真天才委員我們都改成主決議關於費用。我們齁"},{"start":4802.595,"end":4816.247,"text":"該組決議嗎?你已經改組決議了?那請相關部門加油好來第17案跟第18案,18案的陳昌明委員已經撤案那現在還有這個17案其他營業費用的這個部門脈絡委員是要凍結250萬,要不要再說明?來,行政部委員"},{"start":4822.873,"end":4850.869,"text":"那研究發展費用的部分本公司是為了要提升我們用戶的水質還有精進一些產水的效率的需要那另外這些的研究計畫有部分都是跨年度在延續的計畫已經在進行中那未來會遵照委員的提議針對有關一些財務改善的研發項目那本案經費確實是也是有需要懇請委員能夠大力支持"},{"start":4851.152,"end":4852.353,"text":"第17案改為主決議,第18案測案接下來我們第19、22議一併討論歷期的部分請做說明"},{"start":4868.475,"end":4888.33,"text":"這個我們水公司這邊在112年底我們借款約是有1044億元那我們一股今年113年會增加到1148億元這些的借款最主要都是用在降漏我們背影幹管還有一些鳥水潭下游的一些投資的計畫"},{"start":4889.811,"end":4904.726,"text":"那我們去年的平均借款是利率是1.51%利息費用大概是13.37億元那今年的利息編列我們平均借款是用1.41%來計算那利息編列有13.46億元不過"},{"start":4911.872,"end":4932.293,"text":"上個月的3月21日央行又升息了半碼所以沿邊類的預算預算又不符來支用那未來我們水公司也會來強化資金的應用降低相關的一些利息費用那本案的經費而且確實是又需要吭醒委員能夠大力支持好來我們先一份委員謝謝"},{"start":4934.79,"end":4957.199,"text":"我的二十案那當然我還是希望台水公司等一下我的案子該主決議我還是希望說台水公司未來應該就他的財務健全的部分應該提出具體的計畫那當然我也考量到就是全球的央行對於利率的部分好像走向都未明而且並沒有往下的趨勢"},{"start":4957.759,"end":4958.279,"text":"耐震委員"},{"start":4981.47,"end":4988.374,"text":"台灣自來水股份有限公司：台灣自來水股份有限公司：台灣自來水股份有限公司：台灣自來水股份有限公司：台灣自來水股份有限公司："},{"start":5004.241,"end":5004.981,"text":"兩位委員已經都有說了就兩位發言這個"},{"start":5034.981,"end":5044.925,"text":"當然我們預算：謝謝各位同仁大家討論就是預算照列但是董事長團隊在這裡你一千塊四十四億你分幾包去借你應該要去跟請經濟部長跟我們的軍人團來談判不是任由你們這樣子"},{"start":5063.257,"end":5085.546,"text":"每一年固定這樣編因為你剛才已經有講了你們越借會越多那你越借越會多你商討不很好你越借越多這裡都不改變你還在替那個說升息稅會增加升息有很多人撿的啦當時高鐵的時候只有0.95比這次的20多萬談判"},{"start":5091.618,"end":5120.988,"text":"一個政府怎麼可能一個行政部門都沒在插人的對不對有只有管你們不能漲價只有管這個所以部長他的財務已經到這麼這麼的嚴重1044億而且還未再增加最後就這樣喔隱性的還不知道多少險性的就這樣那你今天立席要怎麼樣去談判少一塊一塊好啊"},{"start":5123.047,"end":5133.526,"text":"大總會沒有人這樣做的啦真的你們要找經濟部部長經濟部你們要協助他們找有能力的會計師來跟文人團說"},{"start":5137.279,"end":5160.385,"text":"對不對這個是非常基本啦這是基本講不應當問題我委員在這跟你講啦我們實在聽不下去因為你們的回答你1044億你總共分包分多少包哪一家多少請你們提列那個書面資料出來哪一家多少哪一家借多少哪一家的利息多少長袋、中袋"},{"start":5162.517,"end":5177.993,"text":"這個短帶的,你把它列出來,本市要要求這個數字。 是。那這種一千萬一個的工作,任由這樣利用的,你害死民眾嘛,就害死員工嘛。 跟詹委員報告,我們有短期借口。 等一下回答,我們先請陳警衛委員最後發言,來。"},{"start":5179.855,"end":5201.926,"text":"主席我是建議齁你剛剛所講的我們是要把它做成一個組決議我覺得要用我們的委員會去要求讓他們這個有武器啦就是說是我們委員會逼他一定要去談而且我想公股銀行公股銀行應該是可以很大台的空間而且我們等於是行業在那"},{"start":5203.188,"end":5219.282,"text":"這也是一個勝利我們跟他借完之後然後利息是固定的固定然後升息我們跟著升息所以我覺得應該要去比我覺得我們的委員會應該做個主決議然後讓你們有武器去談要求你們去談"},{"start":5222.001,"end":5241.538,"text":"好 謝謝來那這個部分我們預算照列那其中有第19案跟第20案來改為主決議那這個另外呢增加一個主決議就照剛剛陳林威委員提出也就是針對於台水1044億的貸款請這個"},{"start":5248.487,"end":5274.212,"text":"詳細的書面資料哪一筆像哪一家銀行借利息多少請你們列表出來也請經濟部協助這個自來水公司跟銀行團來洽談以利自來水公司的運作好那主決議趕快寫上來那各位同仁那接下來剛剛那兩案出來了沒有剛剛那兩個主決議出來了沒有"},{"start":5277.555,"end":5303.168,"text":"好再見好再見那我們繼續重大事業建設事業的部分我們第22案是通案我們待會再一併來處理那第23案到26案23案參議委員改為主決議那張綺凱委員也改為主決議其中還有陳昌平委員跟林委員來請行政部門請說明"},{"start":5306.38,"end":5327.261,"text":"那有關委員就23到26案的部分最主要是公司從102年就開始實施10年的降落計畫那我們每一年平均的降落大概有0.64%是優於日本的東京都漏水率他們的平均每年降落大概只有0.28%"},{"start":5329.143,"end":5353.543,"text":"我們也跟北水處這邊他們在做比較北水處它的漏水率是11.2%主要它是城市型的一個供水用戶比較集中維護效率也比較高我們公司在鄉臨北水處的部分就是以新北12區我們的漏水率就只有7.49%這個並"},{"start":5357.506,"end":5380.263,"text":"由於北水處的漲漏水利公司目前也規劃推動8年的一個漲漏計畫加強小區官網封閉及挖打的階階預計121年底漲漏水利可以降到9.77%以下接近日本的一個水準有建水源開發日漸困難"},{"start":5382.064,"end":5399.113,"text":"本案經會確實業務需要也懇請委員大力來支持那其中23案跟25案委員提案跟他們說明以後已經獲委員簽名同意改為主決議23案跟25案都做改為主決議那請兩位因為委員不在現場所以我們"},{"start":5412.27,"end":5413.651,"text":"23到26案做這樣的決議,你要針對這個部分嗎?"},{"start":5436.291,"end":5437.791,"text":"接下來我們針對於第27案27案有邱志偉委員來行政部門出名"},{"start":5464.895,"end":5481.252,"text":"我想27案我在案以為跟說明寫得很清楚我想這個董事長跟總監也了解說明一下這個你目前這個案子執行狀況如果我給你編這些預算你會不會沒辦法執行"},{"start":5482.657,"end":5483.277,"text":"最主要我們聊嘴談"},{"start":5499.266,"end":5524.895,"text":"進水場的用地,因為之前是有這些地主有一些抗爭不能夠如期來取得所以計畫是要往後推演那目前該土地我們已經在去年的6月取得可以加速來這個趕辦不過今年預算編了217千萬是多了一點委員謝謝委員也這個同意來解"},{"start":5525.535,"end":5551.862,"text":"我是好意啦,如果我這個照列,你20億給你,你到底能不能執行?執行不了啦。你執行不了,那我給你錢,你到時候...那你就講同意就好了啊。好,我們先同意啦。我幫你檢列你這個部分,到時候你如果進度超閒,或者突然莫名其妙這個要使用經費,確定不會喔?不會不會。"},{"start":5553.502,"end":5555.843,"text":"27案我們就照邱志偉委員所提案檢列7.8億元。接下來我們28、29、30都以30案呈上免費撤案。"},{"start":5575.013,"end":5587.159,"text":"另外兩位28、29改為主決議我們就照如此的決議接下來31案到34案其中有32案作為改為主決議請行政部門說明"},{"start":5591.098,"end":5602.967,"text":"最主要是無資來水地區改善計畫的第4期,這個期程是111年到113年,今年是最後一年。計畫的議定進度是68.33%,實際我們進度是77.5%,有超前9.2%。"},{"start":5608.732,"end":5621.686,"text":"那第二部分就部分民眾會改變用水習慣來使用其他水源那我們水公司會透過多元方式來鼓勵民眾多使用自來水那另外委員有提到"},{"start":5623.368,"end":5649.055,"text":"水利署這邊已調整作業流程提前來辦理前置作業加強進度控管目前全國無自來水用戶還很多實際需求遠大於我們這個計畫的經費本案經費確實業務需要懇請委員大力支持其中32案跟34案也向提案委員說明或委員簽名同意改為主決議"},{"start":5652.177,"end":5671.634,"text":"來 經濟委員 謝謝主席我想這個部分無自來水我曾經在我們的經濟委員會有正式提出質詢過那當時候美化部長是說我們有在跟行政院在申請專案要去做什麼樣相關的處理那請問"},{"start":5673.335,"end":5689.921,"text":"這樣的一個預算一定是不夠的啦我們無自來水當時候是因為還有前瞻預算加進來我們才勉勉強強多做了一點如果說今年到了這個是最後一起對不對最後一年嘛"},{"start":5691.075,"end":5714.602,"text":"最後一年完了之後呢所以其實我們現在看到前瞻也是到了最尾端了這個也到了最尾端可是你知道光溜多都不要講那個苑霞市其他這個縣市的部分光池霞市就一堆還有無自來水那怎麼辦跟委員報告那水利署已經提了第5期的計畫從114年到117年目前已經報驗了"},{"start":5718.962,"end":5743.599,"text":"所以114年到117年報院是另外下一期的計劃夠嗎?你們現在是一次報當時候美化部長是說我們就把它盤整我有說你們要盤整出來到底需要多少現在還有無自來水這個真的是很誇張啊然後都要去做評比也就是說今天入賊戶"},{"start":5745.2,"end":5750.065,"text":"可以在平均分的所謂的一個計算的單數"},{"start":5753.092,"end":5776.874,"text":"所以這個部分其實我覺得對很多人不公平阿跟委員報告大概這個評選的其實水利署他訂的這規定是他們訂的那水公司只是在執行我知道我是說這個部分因為你剛好有這個自來水的一個狀況無自來水也是你們他編你們在執行阿你們最清楚哪裡沒有自來水阿"},{"start":5777.535,"end":5786.027,"text":"那你們沒有自來水你們是不是應該把這些資料盤整出來給水利署他在編預算是不是能夠恰到我們的一個關鍵點"},{"start":5788.359,"end":5806.244,"text":"我們看到真的是連直轄市都那麼多沒有自來水那更何況其他的縣市我覺得你這個東西要盤整出來所以我會我不是要檢列我其實希望能夠把它做一個比較詳實的報告所以我改為主決議"},{"start":5808.784,"end":5814.146,"text":"第31案改為主決議第4期年編列預算17億多目標是要1.9萬戶的收益戶實際上不到5成實際上接水戶大概9000戶左右當然這個你們績效能夠再提升"},{"start":5833.649,"end":5846.81,"text":"那現在這個接水率比較低在屬於中南部比較多,特別是南部,冰凍的接管接水率很低,這個我也要幫冰凍工委,高雄市區比較好"},{"start":5849.429,"end":5869.585,"text":"非市區、非都會區、萬管庫的部分比較舊比如說秋園的水庫、我家的海水這些管理都有在提升所以我是期待這個基本上這個預算是不足的換寡又換不均你要把這資源用在需求強度最強的地方"},{"start":5870.305,"end":5870.625,"text":"中央政府總裁"},{"start":5887.418,"end":5889.159,"text":"政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案"},{"start":5919.514,"end":5937.56,"text":"我們會把意見報給水利署請他們來納入不是我明天就找水利署來再找你一起來討論就趕快訂案不要再報你還報等他報回來報到民國幾年都不知道所以我期待我明天就速速召開"},{"start":5939.051,"end":5963.142,"text":"新業我就召開這個協調會趕快把你們這個對於哪些要接管的優先順序強度再評比能夠把偏鄉或者非都會區或者針對高雄屏東接管力不足的縣市能夠有加權能夠把它提升最短時間之內讓接管力能夠提升到都會區的水平這樣子"},{"start":5963.629,"end":5982.984,"text":"三十一、三十二、三十一、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、三十二、"},{"start":5983.854,"end":6010.028,"text":"你要把這個跟水利組好好來參詳怎麼樣把我不知道臺南經濟管理怎麼樣這樣我凍結一百萬提出完整的這個跟水利組提出完整的這個針對偏鄉或者非多位區域這個接水率沒有的地方不足的地方能夠有加成或者是有加權的這個機制好不好"},{"start":6014.806,"end":6039.46,"text":"來接下來我們請最後一位蔡議員委員針對這個部分好 那我們要當事長建議第一個就是說你們要跟經濟部甚至是行政院這邊反映你們是需要專案的一些計畫然後來挹注你們的預算要不然他們現在編的這17頁是在做不太多工作所以你們是需要有專案因為我剛剛從我們從這個無自來水地區"},{"start":6041.932,"end":6044.447,"text":"甚至我剛講的沿海地區需要換款"},{"start":6046.106,"end":6073.654,"text":"所以你除了要提升接水率之外還要防止漏水這兩大項目起來基本上你這樣看起來你根本沒多少錢好開那我要再具體再講幾個狀況就是說你們現在在做無自來水地區的一些要接管的時候事實上你們對於所謂的水源地我們知道水源地大概都是在山區嘛在山上的水源地你們的接管率是特低"},{"start":6074.995,"end":6086.147,"text":"這個是一個很不公平的他們是水源的這個提供地所以他們的土地利用是受到限制的但是你們對於相對我們對於水源地的接管這件事並沒有評比上的一個加分這是第一"},{"start":6089.991,"end":6106.342,"text":"第2個就是說你們目前在做所謂自來水接管用戶數在做評比的時候我不知道是不是水利署的一個意見你們把所謂的農舍排除在戶數之外就是說我這裡要接管 我要看這裡有幾戶中央有農舍 你們就把它剔除掉這個事情事實上對於農業地區是不公平的因為我們我們那裡的所在有很多是屬於農舍農舍既然它是農舍它一樣有自來水的需求"},{"start":6119.051,"end":6124.141,"text":"怎麼可以把它剔除掉呢?這是這兩個一個狀況希望董事長可以反映一下"},{"start":6125.318,"end":6152.613,"text":"好 謝謝那以上同仁喔大家都很了解自來水公司呢的專案計畫有很多突發像現在有地震啊什麼的突發的所以呢剛剛邱志偉委員也非常的用心喔他的目的也是希望你們真正要做在需求的這個上面所以針對邱志偉委員所提議的以及蔡議員所提議的請自來水公司還有等一下還有這個"},{"start":6155.174,"end":6170.661,"text":"曾經在委員所提議的請自來水公司必須要去說明清楚而且針對所需的趕快處理好嗎那這個部分就改為這個村市委員的改為主決議33案改為主決議那現在我們31案改為主決議33案改為主決議那這個我們"},{"start":6182.053,"end":6204.98,"text":"31到34案預算照列謝謝來接下來我們有這個回歸過來我們有通案的部分第2案第4案第22案那麼在剛剛的部分因為我們細項都已經處理所以不另外處理但是其中第22案是剛剛陳俊輝委員所以請陳俊輝委員請發言"},{"start":6208.261,"end":6224.449,"text":"謝謝因為其實我會說我22題凍結的原因也是這個漏水的問題其實你們有沒有去盤整過在你們各個線路的部分其實我們現在管線能夠去做監測有沒有這樣的機制"},{"start":6226.119,"end":6231.762,"text":"委員報告我們所有的官網都有監控。 沒有,你新的有,舊的呢?"},{"start":6231.762,"end":6237.905,"text":"我們會布我們的監測點,包括流量包括壓力。 布的監測點到底現在密集度到多少了?"},{"start":6237.905,"end":6239.126,"text":"你們並沒有全部喔?"},{"start":6239.126,"end":6241.927,"text":"我們前陣子有1萬多點阿,因為還是要關鍵點才去布那個監控點。 沒錯,全國1萬多點,夠嗎?"},{"start":6248.973,"end":6267.049,"text":"你知道整個所謂有偏鄉有市區所有一萬多個點購嗎?你們現在後面所布置的有可是我講的是前面那些舊管線是沒有的喔我們都滾動性檢討一些以前造型"},{"start":6269.096,"end":6298.059,"text":"太慢了因為你漏水喔基本上我告訴你我們在基層我們都很清楚每一次只要是發生了有一些好像水表有一些狀況如果是他內水就沒有話講可是幾乎查下去就是老舊管線的漏水然後漏很久都不知道然後因為從內水查查到外水才知道說哇這邊漏的很嚴重"},{"start":6299.878,"end":6318.445,"text":"我是講實際的狀況那我講的是這個老舊管線新的後面部件的你們當然用科技的部分你們都會加裝上去可是老舊的呢那你們現在都在做所謂的管線更新那可是老舊管線你更新的速度還是很慢"},{"start":6319.827,"end":6336.522,"text":"我們一年投入七八十億對 所以我覺得這是同步你們要同步就是說你們的檢測系統在還沒有更新老舊管線之前這個系統你們要怎麼做你們的部分你們同仁都很辛苦"},{"start":6337.543,"end":6358.123,"text":"我們都知道同仁很辛苦但是因為之前沒有這些科技所以我們必須用人力人工那人力人工就會變成沒有辦法那麼面面俱到可是沒有面面俱到漏了水這些都是不必要的損害對不對水就在補救還補免金錢在漏水"},{"start":6361.778,"end":6389.84,"text":"所以這個再拜託 董事長這個我們在講都是基層的聲音是我們監控系統點位不夠的地方我們再來加強你自己把你們的布點弄出來我告訴你把你們一萬多個布點報資料給我我要看你們的密集度到底在哪報到我辦公室 我跟你講啦 你的布點密集度絕對不夠"},{"start":6391.636,"end":6398.5,"text":"也因為這樣子你漏水了之後會造成整個土方的坍塌你知道嗎?"},{"start":6398.5,"end":6416.011,"text":"那水這樣刮刮刮所以那個都是一點影響到全部所以再拜託董事長因為我們其實講很多次說改為主決議謝謝那第22案就作為主決議好謝謝那我們現在有三個主決議請宣讀"},{"start":6421.4,"end":6433.069,"text":"新增委員楊瓊英等人所提組決議三案第一案建於台電公台電於4月1日起調賬電價台水公司增加15%約5億6千餘元請向行政院爭取致應"},{"start":6437.793,"end":6454.675,"text":"第二案為充分供應名聲原台水公司需向各水權單位包括水利署、農水署、北水處及各縣市政府付費取得原料請台水公司向上述單位進行協調以調降原水費用"},{"start":6455.885,"end":6477.325,"text":"第三案請台水公司針對目前借款餘額1044億元提出具體書面資料表列往來銀行及借款利率並請經濟部協助台水公司向銀行爭取優渥減免利率以降低利息支出宣讀完畢謝謝議事組人員針對三個這個組決議請教各位"},{"start":6482.216,"end":6503.226,"text":"那我們就照剛剛所宣讀通過那接下來我們繼續主決議的部分從35案來到60案來35案 遵照辦理通過36案 遵照辦理37案 遵照辦理38案 遵照辦理39案 遵照辦理通過40案 遵照辦理通過41案"},{"start":6507.81,"end":6529.461,"text":"遵照辦理通過42案遵照辦理通過43案遵照辦理通過44案44案我們說明一下因為我們下一階段的那個降低漏水率我們是要行政程序及審查的時程那委員裡面有提到因為台電電價的補償作業還在盤點中"},{"start":6532.302,"end":6550.77,"text":"水公司要到6月底以前提行政院比照台電電價補償方式有執行上的困難所以我們建議最後一段的文字能夠修正為中上建請自來水公司儘速提出降低漏水利114年到121年的"},{"start":6554.091,"end":6580.577,"text":"計劃積極爭取政府預算協助台水公司推動下一階段降落作業架構完善 董事長因為賴榮華委員是我們資深的委員但他現在不在現場我還是會處理要不然是委員不在現場我們就不處理但是你說競訴你是不是可以給一個時間點一下落委隊那當然是做不出來那你能不能有一個時間點這樣是不是比較好還是年底前這樣會不會比較好"},{"start":6582.881,"end":6585.422,"text":"6月底改為年底前,你們再轉給他講一下,我還是幫他處理。事實上就照根據修正文字通過45萬。"},{"start":6605.607,"end":6607.648,"text":"通過46案、通過47案、通過48案、通過49案、通過50案、通過51案、通過52案、通過53案、"},{"start":6624.415,"end":6624.515,"text":"請宣讀協商結論"},{"start":6647.145,"end":6657.835,"text":"宣讀台水公司協商結論第一案預算照列本案改為主決議第二案第三案不再處理第4案到第11案"},{"start":6659.697,"end":6681.94,"text":"預算照列其中第9案、側案、10案、11案均改為主決議第12案、13案使用材料費預算凍結100萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資第14案、15案、16案、17案均改為主決議第18案、側案、第19案到21案預算照列其中19案、20案均改為主決議"},{"start":6682.941,"end":6697.415,"text":"第22案改為主決議,第23案到26案預算照列其中23案、25案均改為主決議,第27案照案通過,第28案至30案預算照列其中28案、29案改主決議,30案撤案"},{"start":6701.363,"end":6722.736,"text":"第31案至34案預算照列其中31案、32案、33案均改為主決議新增11之1案、11之2案、21之1案均照案通過主決議部分35案到43案照案通過44案修正通過45案到60案均照案通過宣讀完畢"},{"start":6725.61,"end":6753.351,"text":"請問各位同仁有委員提案的部分照剛剛宣讀的這個結論通過沒有提案的部分均照列或者是隨同調整請問有無異議畫起來無異議通過我們113年度台水公司營業預算審查完畢那通過的決議文字授權給主席以及議事人員整理你們請先回座不好意思"},{"start":6756.231,"end":6776.761,"text":"主席來這邊宣告本會負責審查的113年度國營事業預算均與審查完略凝聚審查報告送財政委員會診本會審查結果請問需不需要交黨團協商要 這一定要預算一定要"},{"start":6778.1,"end":6791.652,"text":"好,那院會討論的時候呢需交黨團協商院會討論時有本席來說明那主席來在這邊宣告本日所列的議程處理完畢星期三上午9點我們繼續開會現在休息"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}