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民事長早 民事長本席在這裡想跟你探討一個霸凌的問題 我覺得我們要有積極因為本席跟你說的 你未來做秘書長 應該我現在跟你說的 應該你知道我先在打氣"},{"start":27.452,"end":29.534,"text":"在家裡發生的時候是二孔二一年到已經上去法院懲罰會的時候是一定是二孔二四年所以中間三年多到有覺得說這個好處跟這個錯處有不對的"},{"start":51.218,"end":55,"text":"所以本市要跟你說發生一件事可以去改進做到不對的人是要有股票是沒有不對但是要趕快去做因為本市覺得說我們有一點冠冠勝負因為畢竟主管單位都認為我在這裡我做很久的"},{"start":79.943,"end":85.646,"text":"跟你們這麼簡單的考到工科機關有時候因為我們最基本的資產的官工都臨了都想說我這麼簡單的還要去考這個工科機關所以他臨也臨臨到"},{"start":104.912,"end":107.814,"text":"有什麼定情,他也不知道要定情去對,所以必須要,在我本身剛才講到現在現在以這個教育的處境,如果想要請這個代理老師的家屬,在那裡,藍瓊或藍莓"},{"start":128.7,"end":139.684,"text":"要不然他現在現有在一個官司做教育處長這樣是不是應該來 秘書長你回答一下謝委員的提醒所以為什麼就是說基層員工我們擔心就是在機關內部他有他的申訴管道原來本來就有我們很擔心就是說就像您剛才講基層員工他可能"},{"start":155.816,"end":179.685,"text":"不方便或不太敢向上反映所以我們在行政院為什麼要架一個通報平台你不用在你內部你從外面就是我們申報平台那這個案件我們就會立案來要求他一定要做處置而且要求他一個月之內就要有調查結果讓我們知道所以不會拖那麼久當然後續"},{"start":182.341,"end":204.412,"text":"所有的所有的公務員還有一些申訴管道那是另外的我們講說行政部門的部分我們處理至少一個月最多最多可以再加一個月你去行政調查或是處理一定要有結果那我們就不會拖那麼久馬上那如果真的很需要的時候我們當場就會把他們的職務做一個調動讓他們不會有一個重組關係"},{"start":207.677,"end":211.259,"text":"因為畢竟本身在這裡跟你說 因為沒說沒事情講下去霸凌 這個台語也霸凌 這個台語也霸凌 這個台語也霸凌到底是之前的起伏主觀的霸凌還是主觀起伏之前的霸凌 大家都分不清楚"},{"start":232.601,"end":244.557,"text":"也願意的霸凌 像剛才所說的你說主管單位 加工藥照的規律說實在的 必須要做非常嚴重的因為我們的重點就是說"},{"start":249.09,"end":250.971,"text":"港幼依卻不補嘛 大家都會想說 跟大家再拖好你如果找到的時候 我就選一個 當時來到三港做工會都願望可以留下嘛 要不然本身要找的人 一定會覺得 主觀來的刁難嘛"},{"start":271.564,"end":277.165,"text":"包括本縣的服務處 也接觸到很多人說跟我說新簽要做 跟我說已經在教育在高雄 來台北 來台中 來新北做很久的工作了也希望可以當教育服務 也可以照顧教育的使徒因為我要接受的時候 我的主管沒有要幫人"},{"start":302.275,"end":310.034,"text":"秘書長有這個問題你知道嗎報告委員的確是有但是據我我在公務機關已經8年多了"},{"start":312.294,"end":325.903,"text":"到後來都會讓他掉啦到後來啦我實在這個是苦求的,也是歡喜求的因為當然是未來,到後來他也會掉到回去但是在這個過程當中,對他要掉到回去的人說實在,如何煎熬啊真的,我覺得我實在有這個"},{"start":341.175,"end":347.64,"text":"問題,我們要好好去關心,好好用主觀去跟要調的人了解一下,不然有時候誤差很大,很大的,會發生,我也要問這個,如果你們有新的霸凌單位,要申訴的,要不然我看看,你們到底有多少單位,在一個單位可以讓"},{"start":370.996,"end":372.379,"text":"在公家機關可以以霸凌隱秘性的來 必須請你回答一下"},{"start":380.933,"end":398.923,"text":"我們要求就是通報平台轉譯的一定是要是保密系統保密系統就是接觸的人他就有保密義務所以基本上他會受到一些保障因為我怎麼說呢因為有很多我們的電競當中我今天去電競明天的後天我都沒有任何人說我自己去電競而已今天明天的後天主管又找我"},{"start":411.288,"end":412.31,"text":"這也很奇怪,我沒有來任何人說,我才聽證你們的單位,主管又來找我這所以你們要注意"},{"start":423.959,"end":432.026,"text":"主席 還有10分鐘時間在這裡必須聽剛才說的你們要詳細去研究更好更快的不要再讓這個事情來發生要怎麼去做第二點就是剛才蘇朝偉委員有說說到我們的生活的汙水吸收到最好因為我們國土屬的"},{"start":449.462,"end":452.323,"text":"現在就是像我在嘉義市,嘉義市的北京路,很多與眾公寓的區,它的工廠在做,英文一條大排,排出來,都炒公公,你們現在叫我們要改進,要改進,改英國沒有辦法改進,"},{"start":473.012,"end":474.194,"text":"我說是不是,我們有一個管道,因為它也年久過前三四十年,四五十年我們的政府單位是不是想要做"},{"start":487.043,"end":493.387,"text":"生活汙水下水道一樣因為國發會都是關你任何的問題所以你轉換做秘書長的時候我相信你對這個地方的建設非常了解所以我在這裡要拜託秘書長對教育"},{"start":513.579,"end":516.722,"text":"的污水下水道,跟宿泊的座位出來擺出來,他們也可以同仇來改善不要幫人家說,宿泊他們坐的人來改善,這樣英文都不會改善啦這也會對整個的家義區,應用很大的啦,好不好,必須聽"},{"start":540.499,"end":549.263,"text":"因為過去的確是這樣就是說我們有補助我們有編列預算讓地方政府來做這樣的事情那顯然這樣方式還不夠不夠啦所以下一階段我們可能跟地方政府看看要溝通怎麼樣協調一個更好的經濟的機制因為我覺得環境是永續的要做不是我們的生活會有水而已"},{"start":569.313,"end":570.033,"text":"接下來請張宏祿"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:04:27+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:04:29.107500+08:00","text":"主席，請秘書長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T10:04:29.107500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:04:31.215000+08:00","text":"請秘書長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔秘書長明鑫","start":"2025-01-02T10:04:31.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:04:31.595000+08:00","text":"王委員早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:04:32.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:04:32.855000+08:00","text":"秘書長早。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:04:34.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:04:54.492000+08:00","text":"秘書長，本席在這裡先跟你探討一個霸凌的問題，我覺得我們要積極，本席跟你說的是在你還沒來當秘書長前，不過我現在跟你說的，你應該知道發生在嘉義。","quality":0.766},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:04:54.552000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:04:56.514000+08:00","text":"此事是2021年發生在嘉義，等到送懲戒法院的時候已經是2024年，將近三年多才讓人覺得校長跟處長是有錯的。","quality":0.357},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:05:18.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:05:20.099000+08:00","text":"所以秘書長，本席要跟你說，一件事發生後，固然要有具體的事證，才能讓做得不對的人去改進，沒有錯，但是你們事後去調查處理的速度也要快。","quality":0.362},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:05:20.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:06:12.653000+08:00","text":"本席覺得我們有一點官官相護，畢竟主管單位都認為我在這裡做很久了，你們好不容易考上公家機關，有時候因為我們最基層的員工都忍著，都想說我好不容易才能考上公家機關，所以他忍了又忍，忍到有時候就算想陳情，他也不知道要去哪裡陳情。","quality":0.598},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:06:12.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:06:37.581000+08:00","text":"所以，秘書長，我本身從剛剛說到現在，這位教育處的處長又對受害者──這個代理老師的家屬，對他們恐嚇、辱罵，不過他現在還在某一縣市當教育處長，這樣應該嗎？","quality":0.552},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:06:37.581000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:06:37.941000+08:00","text":"來，秘書長，你回答一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔秘書長明鑫","start":"2025-01-02T10:06:38.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:06:39.221000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的提醒。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"龔秘書長明鑫","start":"2025-01-02T10:06:41.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:07:08.698000+08:00","text":"機關內部原來本就有它的申訴管道，我們很擔心就像您剛才講的，基層員工可能不方便或不太敢向上反映，所以我們在行政院為什麼要架一個通報平臺？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"龔秘書長明鑫","start":"2025-01-02T10:07:09.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:07:25.665000+08:00","text":"就是要讓基層員工不用透過內部，可以從外面向我們的平臺申報，然後我們就會立案要求機關一定要做處置，而且要求它一個月之內就要讓我們知道調查結果，所以不會拖那麼久。","quality":0.662},{"speaker":"龔秘書長明鑫","start":"2025-01-02T10:07:26.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:07:51.412000+08:00","text":"當然後續所有的公務人員還是有一些申訴管道，那是另外的，但是行政部門的部分，我們處理的時間至少一個月內，最多最多可以再加一個月，行政調查或是處理一定要有結果，我們就不會拖那麼久，然後馬上……如果真的很需要的時候，我們當場就會把職務做一個調動，讓他們不會有從屬關係。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:07:54.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:07:58.219000+08:00","text":"秘書長，本席在這裡跟你說，因為不講好像沒有事，可是講到霸凌，許多單位都紛紛傳出霸凌事件，到底是基層的欺負主管的霸凌，還是主管欺負基層的霸凌，大家都分不清了。","quality":0.514},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:08:20.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:08:37.951000+08:00","text":"若是言語的霸凌，像剛剛所說的，你說單位主管跟工友一起跪下去，說實在的，秘書長，這非常的嚴重，因為我們中央就是工友遇缺不補，大家都會想現在就好好的，如果有人走的話，我們就欠一個同事來幫忙做工作，所以都希望大家可以留下來嘛，不過本身要走的人，他覺得就是主管在刁難嘛！","quality":0.449},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:08:58.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:09:30.678000+08:00","text":"包括本席的服務處也接到很多陳情說，我申請要走，我已經從故鄉嘉義來臺北、臺中、新北工作很久了，也希望可以回去嘉義服務，同時能夠照顧嘉義的長輩，不過我申請調職的時候主管不肯放人，秘書長，有這個問題你知道嗎？","quality":0.626},{"speaker":"龔秘書長明鑫","start":"2025-01-02T10:09:30.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:09:43.197000+08:00","text":"報告委員，的確是有，但是據我了解，我在公務機關已經服務八年多，到後來都會讓他調啦，到後來啦！","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"龔秘書長明鑫","start":"2025-01-02T10:09:43.197000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:09:44.838000+08:00","text":"只有很少數很少數……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:09:44.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:09:45.718000+08:00","text":"對啦，秘書長，說實在的，我是在苦笑咧，不是歡喜笑咧！","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"龔秘書長明鑫","start":"2025-01-02T10:09:45.718000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:09:46.718000+08:00","text":"是啦，是啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:09:45.999000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:09:51.982000+08:00","text":"因為當然到最後他也會調回去，不過在過程當中，對於要調回去的人，說實在的是如何地煎熬啊？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:09:52.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:10:12.098000+08:00","text":"秘書長，我覺得這個問題我們要好好地去關心，好好地讓主管去跟要調職的人了解一下，不然有時候誤差很大，會產生出很大的誤會。","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:10:12.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:10:38.798000+08:00","text":"我也希望你們如果要成立受理申訴霸凌的單位，不過我看一看你們有那麼多單位，到底哪一個單位可以讓百姓隱密性申訴公家機關的霸凌事件呢？","quality":0.393},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:10:38.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:10:39.359000+08:00","text":"來，秘書長，你回答一下。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"龔秘書長明鑫","start":"2025-01-02T10:10:47.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:11:00.720000+08:00","text":"我們要求的就是通報平臺轉譯的一定是要保密系統，所謂保密系統就是接觸的人就有保密義務，所以基本上他會受到一些保障。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:11:00.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:11:00.961000+08:00","text":"我為什麼會這樣跟你說？","quality":0.3},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:11:01.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:11:19.290000+08:00","text":"因為有很多的陳情案，我今天去陳情沒有跟任何人說，我自己去陳情而已，不過明天、後天主管就來找我了，這個也很奇怪，我沒有跟任何人講，我只是去向單位陳情，主管就來找我了，所以這種情況你們要注意。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:11:30.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:11:32.500000+08:00","text":"主席，請再給我1分鐘時間。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:11:32.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:11:34.963000+08:00","text":"剛剛秘書長說的，你們要詳細地再去研究得好一點、快一點，看要怎麼做才不會再讓這種事情發生。","quality":0.525},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:11:35.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:11:59.323000+08:00","text":"第二點就是剛剛蘇巧慧委員有講到，我們的生活污水要收集在一起，因為我們有國土署在管理、在花錢監督，像我在嘉義市，嘉義市北港路很多乙種工業區，區內的工廠運作時永遠那條大排排出來的廢水都很臭，你們現在叫他要改進、要改進，他們就沒辦法改進。","quality":0.613},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:12:20.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:12:20.252000+08:00","text":"是不是我們要有一個管道？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:12:20.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:12:37.145000+08:00","text":"因為那個工業區也「年久月深」，已經三、四十年甚至四、五十年了，我們的政府單位是不是能夠像在做生活污水下水道一樣……我為什麼跟你說到這個？","quality":0.542},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:12:37.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:12:39.386000+08:00","text":"因為國發會負責管理任何的問題，所以當你轉換職務當秘書長之後，我相信你對地方的建設非常的了解。","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:12:39.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:13:03.301000+08:00","text":"所以我在這裡要拜託秘書長，對嘉義市的污水下水道跟事業排放的污水，希望可以統籌來改進，不要就放著讓事業單位自己去改進，這樣永遠都不會改進啦！","quality":0.547},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:13:03.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:13:03.682000+08:00","text":"這也會對整個嘉義市影響很大，好不好？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:13:03.682000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:13:27.499000+08:00","text":"秘書長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔秘書長明鑫","start":"2025-01-02T10:13:27.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:13:33.002000+08:00","text":"因為過去的確是這樣，我們有編列預算補助地方政府來做這些事情，但顯然這樣的方式還不夠、不夠……","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:13:33.002000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:13:34.002000+08:00","text":"不夠啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:13:34.002000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:13:35.002000+08:00","text":"力度不夠啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔秘書長明鑫","start":"2025-01-02T10:13:33.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:13:35.203000+08:00","text":"對，不夠啦，所以下一階段我們可能要跟地方政府溝通看看，要怎麼樣協調一個更好的、更積極的機制……","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-01-02T10:13:35.203000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:13:56.313000+08:00","text":"對啦，我覺得環境是永續的，要做好，不是只有我們的生活污水而已，事業排出來的污水還更嚴重，拜託這件事要注意一下，你們要多協助當地的政府，看要怎麼來協助他們，然後多少我們中央也要出錢，好不好？以上。","quality":0.244},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T10:13:56.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:13:57.013000+08:00","text":"接下來請張宏陸召委。","quality":0.667}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}