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謝謝官員還有委員們首先我想請台大醫院院長還有台大大學的主秘"},{"start":14.9,"end":35.074,"text":"剛剛從許多委員的質詢中都已經聽出來了這次的所有這些性騷擾相關案件是黃腔折粄我剛剛其實是非常難過因為我看到院長面對前兩位委員其實中間還有笑這樣子的樣子我這邊有非常多女醫師陳情的管道"},{"start":35.934,"end":48.965,"text":"很多人現在已經在看身心科中度憂鬱症了看到你在鏡頭前面笑情何以堪啊難道女醫師在你心中不是醫師嗎不是你台大醫院的員工嗎你可以為女醫師主持公道嗎我請問你院長我請問你"},{"start":61.51,"end":76.828,"text":"我覺得這是兩碼子事兩碼子事請不要用這樣子來做一個人身攻擊我自己笑是不是說我是對因為委員"},{"start":77.509,"end":105.472,"text":"我絕對沒有人身攻擊我的意思是說這件事一事體大我很希望院長您可以嚴肅的面對我請問您院長這幾年來我現在在網路上看到您知道台大醫院有一個綽號叫寶山醫院吧您知道嗎最近又多了一個綽號叫杏桑醫院您知道貴院有一位王姓的骨科主任因為杏桑研究助理而告上法院這件事您知道吧"},{"start":106.141,"end":121.059,"text":"而且這件事情我且知道而且我們也因為王姓主任因為這樣他的主任就去職了所以他還在上班他主任就被... 郎一郎一還在歸原上班所以網路上說台大醫院就是性騷醫院沒有錯啊"},{"start":121.539,"end":132.956,"text":"沒有 我剛才已經講過我們可以做我們醫院在法律上給我們的一個權責我要開除他 院長也沒有這個權責開除他我們要開除一個醫師"},{"start":137.142,"end":161.748,"text":"是有一定的一個剛剛教育部剛剛教育部已經來了教育部其實有頒布一個規定您剛講得非常的清楚有許多的地方的學校教育部是說這個教師假使有涉及性騷等等是終身不得聘用沒錯吧教育部是這樣建議大家的沒錯吧王信主任有沒有教職有沒有他有教職"},{"start":164.813,"end":180.088,"text":"所以我們今天為什麼要把衛福部教育部勞動部全部都找出來等一下我們一一來問好除了王姓主任是不是還有一位正姓的婦科主任也被涉嫌下藥性侵是不是有"},{"start":181.55,"end":198.152,"text":"有嗎有嗎您知道嗎這件事情我們很早就處理在法律還沒有因為他現在還在走法律的程序法律還沒有解決的時候院方已經解決所以這位醫師早就已經離職了"},{"start":199.974,"end":223.11,"text":"所以這位醫師最近是不是又申請要復聘嗎他是不是申請要復聘跟那個剛才那個C性因為是同一科所以這兩件事情可能大家把它搞在一起沒有搞在一起我是從前面開始問他沒有這位醫師已經不在台大醫院也沒有在我相信校方也知道那校方最近他有沒有申請復聘他有沒有"},{"start":225.414,"end":238.409,"text":"應該是沒有這回事好 那我想知道說校方跟院方剛剛從副院長的口中聽起來你們是2月收到簡訊知道這件事的 正確嗎2月"},{"start":240.839,"end":262.35,"text":"校方沒有收到是院方院方所以我剛才講的我在這裡再重申一次我們整個的流程非常清楚而且我也有給啊貴院因為只要有來醫院公文來我都有把整個調查的過程就是有關於吸性是在2月我們知道而且是我們的高主任委員他"},{"start":262.97,"end":288.986,"text":"主動跟我報告我們馬上就成立工作小組那成立工作小組我們還是我們要依法行政我們還是要有一個行政的流程而且我們當初希望這個可以正式的申訴但是受害者都不願意所以我們說我們用雇主之息也被查您2月覺得這件事蠻嚴重的所以雇主之息您開始啟動調查但是您沒有覺得嚴重到要通知校防沒有"},{"start":289.426,"end":306.535,"text":"你還沒有調查完以後我們是調查整個已經成立而且我們在6月就開考記委會就記大過一次那時候我們就把整個也通知校方那另外我們也通知那個台北市因為根據那個新商房黃志華假如沒有生"},{"start":307.595,"end":311.378,"text":"是直轄市的主管機關所以我們都有按照法律來做所以院長的意思是說有深喉嚨去跟媒體爆料其實12月就投訴給院方這件事應該是錯的沒有12月沒有投訴我們那個高主任這件事是錯的我只是幫你澄清謝謝有幫你澄清因為12月才知道"},{"start":327.81,"end":331.594,"text":"好你2月才知道ok2月搞到現在已經2025年1月了請問台大校方你們的新評會教評會到底還要拖多久"},{"start":339.226,"end":357.815,"text":"是跟委員報告一下就是說的確是六月台大收到台大醫院過來的報告之後我們事實上就已經開過在七月我們就開過教評會那把這個後面的程序就確認因為還有台大的校方也有性評會那怎麼樣"},{"start":359.136,"end":365.301,"text":"在這個報告啊做一些確認跟釐清所以這個報告的確認跟釐清你覺得問題在哪裡所以你現在是在說院方給您的這個報告需要再確認跟釐清報告委員這個就是程序的問題因為那個報告是台大的性評做的那到了學校學校因為要牽扯到後續成屬的"},{"start":380.955,"end":388.678,"text":"懲處的問題那在懲處的時候在我們的校教評會就需要有一個性評會這邊所以我們只是請這個台大這邊的性評會做一個報告的確認如果有一些要釐清的地方就進行釐清"},{"start":397.182,"end":400.483,"text":"那你這個釐清還要多久你只要告訴大家釐清還要多久整個程序大概都已經都走完了那我們會在下一次的教評會下一次教評會是什麼時候應該就是在這個月應該是這個月應該就會所以你們就會宣布給全國的因為這樣講我們會做完"},{"start":419.15,"end":426.514,"text":"因為懲處就跟我們之前陳校長說的這個是校教評會的職權他懲處完就是做成報告之後會議紀錄也確認之後我們還會報教育部做確認以後我們可以請教育部先回座沒關係我們請那個勞動部剛剛那位司長剛剛勞動部的司長講得非常好我們應該要積極的保護受害人來那個台大醫院院長台大醫院院長"},{"start":446.785,"end":473.717,"text":"這邊也是深喉嚨講的12月17號在早上的10點到下午的3點之間還目擊C教授出現在台大醫院兒醫大樓婦產科樓層完全無視台大醫院為保護受害人的公文要求婦產科對C教授的行動範圍進行管制我想知道吳院長是否有發這個公文希望對他的行動範圍進行管制 您有發嗎"},{"start":475.458,"end":504.756,"text":"好謝謝陳委員那一天是來看牙齒然後看完以後他就確實有去然後我們知道以後我們就請院方有請警衛去而且我們也下了一個公文就是今後只要看到他進入婦產部我們警衛就會把他那天他去婦產部幹嘛他不是已經離職了所以我們接到這個訊息以後我們就馬上院方就請那你之後會如何保護這些受害人"},{"start":505.296,"end":524.289,"text":"我們我相信他應該不能進入婦產部因為我們已經把他的那個卡都收回來因為我們婦產部跟兒科部他要進入那個都是要有刷卡所以他已經沒有卡那一天他怎麼進去的我們還在調查說到底是誰幫他開"},{"start":525.31,"end":536.413,"text":"所以你大概兩週內可以給我們這個報告嗎他是怎麼接觸到這些受害人的還有他怎麼進去的以及他有沒有遇到前列的這些受害人"},{"start":537.938,"end":561.875,"text":"這個好像是沒有因為那一天包括我們高副院長還有另外一位所以你們當天其實是有收到有人檢舉他又出現了那還有其他天嗎其他天就沒有了這一天以外因為那一天以後我們就加強那個管控本來兒醫大樓的那個特別是病房區都有刷卡才能進去除非你按"},{"start":562.996,"end":572.852,"text":"裡面的人開門你才能進去 假如沒有卡那我知道的 呃 呃 呃 西姓組 呃 組織醫師他的卡很早我們就收回 因為他已經離職了"},{"start":573.953,"end":595.453,"text":"好那我們就兩個禮拜靜候您的報告還有您未來要如何加強保護您身為醫師其實你知道女醫師要就是師徒制手把手的有時候交看診交開刀寫論文一起出國開會你看有多少全市的機會有辦法進行這些惡行這些您都可以理解吧"},{"start":596.153,"end":619.235,"text":"其實我可以理解而且我們也很重視那我這順便謝謝陳委員給我這個機會去做澄清那我也在做剛才你說我在笑其實是沒有這是我們已知的我們先不要說我們今天就好好的來討論這件事情我先跟你講剛剛你說你是因為雇主失息知道依照性別平等法第13條的規定"},{"start":621.357,"end":634.25,"text":"但是沒有申訴人的話其實這個整個調查或是報告會在一個秘密的過程而且其實是不需要懲處的我想知道當你沒有申訴人的時候為什麼你要去懲戒呢"},{"start":635.177,"end":653.019,"text":"為什麼因為這個案子非常重大其實在我們110年開始我們院方都有處理過很多性騷的案子在我的資料裡面110年我們接受到七件七件都成立而且都有做懲處其實每年都有"},{"start":653.419,"end":669.593,"text":"那這件事情比較特別因為我覺得這一個醫師他的權勢這麼高而且備份這麼高發生這麼事情雖然沒有申訴人但是我們一定要主動所以那時候我就跟高副院長講說這個一定要勿枉勿重因為這個影響會很大"},{"start":671.374,"end":685.61,"text":"所以其實你的意思是說雇主之息但其實是因為透過簡訊之息但這個人不想申訴啦不想申訴其實是不想申訴並不是沒有申訴人嘛對不對所以你就知道這個影響有多大他還在那邊工作"},{"start":686.271,"end":714.92,"text":"不敢申訴所以這不是勞動部教育部應該要積極的協助這些弱勢的比較還沒有通過執照的女醫師我們今天就是希望好好來討論這件事嘛但院長好這樣看起來不管是你申訴或是耳聞我希望你把它變成一個正式的台大醫院或者是我們可以讓每一個醫院來看我們如何去保護這些學生階級的醫師好嗎不要再被人家寫性騷醫院了"},{"start":715.66,"end":719.363,"text":"真的很丟臉再來我們要請那個台大校方為什麼我們要這麼擔心黑箱審查因為你們是不是去年7月才被監察院糾正你們的教評會跟性評會才被監察院糾正"},{"start":733.383,"end":752.925,"text":"的確是監察院是有來函是對啊我們不能從性騷醫院又變成性騷大學監察院裡面講得非常的明確他說你們台大跟其他學校比起來其他學校淡江中正輔仁抓到有教師有性騷擾就是終身解聘結果你們的"},{"start":753.726,"end":768.878,"text":"姓平慧叫平慧面對一位公衛學院副教授性騷案的時候指出這位教師所受到的處罰跟其他學校類似案件是完全無法比擬在會議記錄上更刻意隱瞞該名建議輕罰的委員也就是說"},{"start":771.86,"end":794.553,"text":"你們已經比別人判得少了 你們說要停職三年然後你們在這個姓評會還有校評會裡面居然有匿名的委員跟大家和諧 跟大家說好啦我們一起把他把三年改成一年最後你們被監察院糾正你們這批人七月被監察院糾正然後現在又要去開這個C教授的校評會跟姓評會 你覺得合理嗎"},{"start":798.845,"end":812.289,"text":"報告委員我們的教評會委員事實上是每一年都會不一樣的那他們是獨立的運作那的確是整個程序當中就是性評會教評會他們都有開會那這個結果"},{"start":817.41,"end":843.84,"text":"對你就簡單的回答我你們被糾正以後有想要檢討性評會跟教評會嗎還是你們覺得不會我們做得很棒棒很好這個跟我們報告一下台大我也利用這個機會跟大家重申這個不管是台大或剛剛院長也講了台大醫院我們都會很重視性評而且我們是因為就是對性別是零容忍所以發生任何的事情我們都一定會依法"},{"start":844.76,"end":868.964,"text":"積極的處理那法律上該做的我們都會那我稍微問一下像我們像立法院的范雲委員他其實也在台大教授婦女性別相關的課程你們台大零零種種這些性別相關學程啦三四十個少說三四十個是不是你們的性評會成員都沒有一個是來自這個性別或是婦女相關的沒有"},{"start":869.604,"end":890.087,"text":"是 報告委員這個部分我們有討論過因為本來我們的性評委員就各個院來推薦那校長這邊是有一個有幾個名額是可以邀請相關的專家那我們今年開始會把我們性別這邊的教授至少會有一個人會在我們的性評委員最少會有一個人喔至少至少"},{"start":891.148,"end":907.442,"text":"這個性評會裡面至少一個人所以表示你們以前沒有上一屆的性評是沒有這個做性別平等研究的老師那但是各個學院可能派來的人他本身就是性評的專家這是有的譬如說"},{"start":908.103,"end":914.351,"text":"沒有 我查了他們都沒有在學程裡面授課性別相關所以你是如何認證他具有參加性評會的資格那個就我剛剛講各個學院他們會推薦他們覺得就是說比較合適當性評的委員那這個部分"},{"start":923.103,"end":937.926,"text":"如果他是專業的不管是他有教這個課或他相關的研究我跟你們說你才剛被糾正所以這件事情全國的人都在看尤其是女醫師女學生研究醫師 住院醫師全國人都在看我分享一個哲學家"},{"start":938.587,"end":963.684,"text":"和納厄蘭說的平庸的邪惡他在講說當一群人不制止惡行反而當作是正常的原本就是這樣做長期都是這樣做來縱容甚至參與其中就是在助長邪惡所以我希望你最後的姓評會校評會的報告可以還給這些受害人一個公道好嗎是我們一定會好好的調查跟做清楚謝謝三位跟冷魂精對不起那個邱部長"},{"start":973.052,"end":992.303,"text":"邱部長這個是您前幾天12月30號回應許多民團啊因為您知道我們在瑞黃委員會也有講不管是針對這些幼教的狼師啊或是保姆等等我們都會設置一個平台讓大家安心你說針對狼醫你要可以研擬可以研擬是你要做還是你不要做還是你會研擬會不會研擬因為你只有說可以研擬"},{"start":995.663,"end":1021.865,"text":"好 我想我們要整整 剛剛今天整個過 討論整個早上討論相關的一個一個機制 不管是從學校 職場醫院 已經討論很多那基本上衛福部當然是一直關注的做我們應該要做的事情那有關於要建立 朗醫會有這樣的一個建議我們認為有建立一個平台來公布這樣的資訊其實是"},{"start":1025.248,"end":1052.699,"text":"看起來是值得研議的所以要研議好那我會再追您的研議的進度好的好再來這個我不知道您有沒有聽聞您最近要開始推30歲免費健檢這個是個德政我覺得非常的好利益良善可是您知道衛福部有發了一份文件叫做醫事服務機構辦理預防保健服務注意事項您知道這件事嗎"},{"start":1054.694,"end":1079.481,"text":"這個我大概知道你知道炸鍋了嘛對不對好我們就簡單的跟大家講一下現在雖然你宣傳成人健檢下降到30歲但是你發了另外一份文件跟第一線的醫護人員說如果這些人原本就有三高有定期檢查有定期治療或者是有被糖尿病P4P計畫收案提供的衛福部將不會核付這筆費用那你應該看得出問題在哪裡吧"},{"start":1083.422,"end":1109.33,"text":"好 謝謝陳委員給我這個機會再度跟全國的醫療院所說明經過國民健康署的一個澄清明年度絕對不會去做這個部分的勾結 為什麼因為我們要站在人民的立場而不是站在會計或者是我們公務的立場那因為在公務上面我想委員可能也我過去幾十年也接過很多"},{"start":1110.246,"end":1131.659,"text":"衛福部的各個局 署的計畫管制的非常嚴格而且不能有重複所以我們這個可能是可能是事務單位很擔心你健保這麼嚴重現在這麼嚴重是不是重複但是我覺得站在醫師的立場還有病人的立場我先講醫師 醫師不會這麼說醫師一定知道說他有說我腦袋被抽兩遍"},{"start":1140.204,"end":1156.429,"text":"對不對 不可能嘛哪一個醫師會做這種事嗎一定是這裡可以做UOT這裡可以做我一定是顯或者是兩個宗家起來站在病人最佳的一個利益來做一個專業的處理一般都是這樣子所以這個部分跟我們行政部門的一個互動"},{"start":1157.229,"end":1173.507,"text":"在這個部分是有個需要GAP部長我跟你講這件事有三個面向要分析第一個你跟全國的人說可以做健檢這個很棒但是第二個你沒有跟全國的人說但是你有三高不能喔這個你沒說喔所以你的正義宣導就有問題"},{"start":1174.568,"end":1201.256,"text":"那當然這些人也會覺得說我已經繳健保費了我本來就應該要做這個你提供的30歲健檢而且部長您太久沒有在第一線了光是把兩張醫師卡跟健保卡插好並且連到VPN再去找他有沒有糖尿病我告訴你我帶著你操作一遍你就知道要花多久不可能整個早上都在做這件事情所以這件事我們一定要從IT端去克服你才可以執行這樣子好嗎"},{"start":1202.486,"end":1226.181,"text":"報告委員我是去年的520上任以後才沒有接觸第一線過去40年每一個禮拜都看見當立委的時候因為我有義務我是借調的我有義務回去做指導門診我們最後一次 要再久啦這件事情我非常感謝你了解這基層的聲音真的要處理而且是國際"},{"start":1227.342,"end":1244.239,"text":"國健署已經馬上在處理請全國醫療院所安心我們一定會把他處理到美人需要什麼檢查我們盡量都做完整的一個健康檢查來落實健康台灣真正的目標好那我們也會再繼續追您在這個IP端的進度謝謝 謝謝部長好 謝謝陳委員 謝謝部長"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:02:52.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:02:54.592000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席、謝謝官員，還有委員們。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:02:54.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:02:58.463000+08:00","text":"首先我想請臺大醫院院長，還有臺灣大學主秘。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:03:03.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:03:36.564000+08:00","text":"剛剛從許多委員的質詢中都已經聽出來了，這次所有的這些性騷擾相關案件，真的是荒腔走板，我剛剛其實非常難過，因為我看到院長面對前兩位委員的質詢，中間還有笑的樣子，我這邊有非常多女醫師的陳情，很多人現在都已經在看身心科，有了中度憂鬱症，看到你在鏡頭前笑，情何以堪，難道女醫師在你心中不是醫師嗎？","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:03:36.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:03:37.424000+08:00","text":"不是你臺大醫院的員工嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:03:37.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:03:37.625000+08:00","text":"你可以為女醫師主持公道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:03:37.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:03:37.945000+08:00","text":"我請問你，院長，我請問你。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:03:50.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:04:05.828000+08:00","text":"我覺得這是兩碼子事，請不要用這樣子來做人身攻擊，我自己笑，不是說我是對……因為委員……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:04:06.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:04:14.696000+08:00","text":"我絕對沒有人身攻擊，我的意思是這件事茲事體大，我很希望院長可以嚴肅面對。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:04:15.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:04:21.121000+08:00","text":"請問院長，這幾年來，您知道現在網路上臺大醫院有一個綽號叫「寶山醫院」嗎？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:04:21.621000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:04:23.082000+08:00","text":"您知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:04:23.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:04:34.452000+08:00","text":"最近又多了一個綽號，叫「性騷醫院」，您知道貴院有一位王姓骨科主任，因為性騷研究助理而被告上法院，這件事您知道吧？","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:04:35.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:04:40.908000+08:00","text":"這件事情我知道，而且我們也因為王姓主任這樣的行為，將他的主任去職了。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:04:41.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:04:42.009000+08:00","text":"所以他還在上班？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:04:42.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:04:43.251000+08:00","text":"他主任就被……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:04:45.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:04:50.039000+08:00","text":"狼醫還在貴院上班，所以網路上說臺大醫院是性騷醫院沒有錯啊！","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:04:50.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:05:06.802000+08:00","text":"沒有，我剛才已經講過，我們只能就法律上給我們醫院的權責，如果要開除他，院長也沒有這個權責可以開除他，我們要開除一個醫師是有一定的程序……","quality":0.82},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:05:09.383000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:05:24.666000+08:00","text":"剛剛教育部已經來了，其實教育部有頒布一個規定，您剛剛講得非常清楚，有許多地方的學校，教育部說教師假使有涉及性騷等等，是終身不得聘用沒錯吧！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:05:25.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:05:27.467000+08:00","text":"教育部是這樣建議大家的沒錯吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:05:28.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:05:29.827000+08:00","text":"王姓主任有沒有教職？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:05:30.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:05:30.748000+08:00","text":"他有教職。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:05:33.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:05:41.801000+08:00","text":"所以我們今天為什麼要把衛福部、教育部、勞動部全部都找出來，等一下我們一一來問。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:05:42.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:05:52.072000+08:00","text":"除了王姓主任，是不是還有一位鄭姓婦科主任也涉嫌下藥性侵？有嗎？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:05:52.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:05:53.734000+08:00","text":"您知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:05:53.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:06:07.132000+08:00","text":"這件事情我們很早就處理了，在法律還沒有……因為現在還在走法律的程序，在法律還沒有解決的時候，院方已經解決了，所以這位醫師早就已經離職了。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:06:09.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:06:11.896000+08:00","text":"這位醫師是不是最近又申請要復聘？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:06:12.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:06:13.877000+08:00","text":"他是不是申請要復聘？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:06:14.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:06:20.182000+08:00","text":"沒有，可能因為跟剛才那個C教授是同一科，所以這兩件事情大家把它搞在一起。","quality":0.758},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:06:20.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:06:23.604000+08:00","text":"沒有搞在一起，我是從前面開始問的。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:06:25.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:06:29.408000+08:00","text":"這位醫師已經不在臺大醫院，也沒有在……我相信校方也知道……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:06:30.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:06:31.289000+08:00","text":"最近他有沒有向校方申請復聘？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:06:31.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:06:32.090000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T10:06:34.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:06:35.535000+08:00","text":"應該是沒有這回事，跟委員報告。","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:06:37.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:06:47.389000+08:00","text":"我想知道校方跟院方……剛剛從副院長的口中聽起來，你們是2月收到簡訊知道這件事的，正確嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:06:49.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:06:51.200000+08:00","text":"校方沒有收到，是院方……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:06:51.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:06:51.580000+08:00","text":"對，院方。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:06:53.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:07:29.120000+08:00","text":"我在這裡再重申一次，整個流程非常清楚，而且我也有給貴院，因為只要醫院有公文來，我都有把整個調查的過程……就是有關於C教授的事情我們是在2月知道，而且是高主任委員主動跟我報告，我們馬上就成立工作小組，關於成立工作小組，我們還是要依法行政、還是要有一個行政的流程，而且我們當初希望可以正式申訴，但是受害者都不願意，所以我們說用雇主知悉也可以查。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:07:29.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:07:37.025000+08:00","text":"2月的時候您覺得這件事蠻嚴重的，所以您以雇主知悉的方式開始啟動調查，但是您沒有覺得嚴重到要通知校方？","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:07:38.766000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:07:57.876000+08:00","text":"還沒有調查完……我們是整個調查工作小組已經成立，而且我們在6月開考績委員會就記大過一次，那時候我們就把整個事情通知校方，另外我們也通知臺北市，因為根據性騷擾防治法必須通知直轄市主管機關，所以我們都有按照法律來做。","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:07:57.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:07:59.237000+08:00","text":"所以院長的意思是說，有深喉嚨去跟媒體爆料其實12月就投訴給院方，這件事應該是錯的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:07:59.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:07:59.718000+08:00","text":"沒有，12月沒有投訴，我們的高主任委員……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:07:59.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:08:00.058000+08:00","text":"這件事是錯的，我只是幫你澄清。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:08:00.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:08:00.238000+08:00","text":"謝謝，因為這裡面有太多的……","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:08:16.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:08:17.831000+08:00","text":"好，你2月才知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:08:18.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:08:20.574000+08:00","text":"從2月搞到現在已經2025年1月了，請問臺大校方，你們的性平會、教評會到底還要拖多久？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T10:08:28.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:08:49.918000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，6月臺大收到臺大醫院過來的報告之後，事實上我們在7月就已經開過教評會，然後把後面的程序確認，因為臺大校方也有性平會，怎麼樣針對報告做一些確認跟釐清……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:08:50.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:08:50.998000+08:00","text":"針對報告的確認跟釐清你覺得問題在哪裡？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:08:50.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:08:52.480000+08:00","text":"所以你現在是在說院方給您的報告需要再確認跟釐清？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T10:08:52.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:09:17.658000+08:00","text":"不是的，報告委員，這是程序的問題，因為那個報告是臺大的性平做的，到了學校之後，因為學校這邊會牽扯到後續懲處的問題，在懲處的時候，在我們的校教評會就需要有一個性平會議，所以我們只是請臺大的性平會進行報告的確認，如果有一些要釐清的地方就進行釐清……","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:09:26.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:09:26.442000+08:00","text":"那你這個釐清還要多久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:09:26.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:09:26.902000+08:00","text":"你只要告訴大家釐清還要多久。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T10:09:26.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:09:27.823000+08:00","text":"現在整個程序大概都已經走完了，我們會在下一次的教評會……","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:09:27.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:09:28.003000+08:00","text":"下一次教評會是什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T10:09:28.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:09:28.763000+08:00","text":"應該就是在這個月，這個月應該就會……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:09:28.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:09:29.123000+08:00","text":"所以你們就會宣布給全國的觀眾知道？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T10:09:29.243000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:09:51.872000+08:00","text":"應該是這樣講，我們會做完懲處，就像之前陳校長所說的，懲處是校教評會的職權，做成報告之後、會議紀錄也確認之後，我們還會報教育部確認。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:09:52.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:09:54.354000+08:00","text":"請教育部先回座沒關係，剛剛勞動部那位司長講得非常好，我們應該要積極的保護受害人。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:09:54.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:10:36.915000+08:00","text":"請問臺大醫院吳院長，這也是深喉嚨講的，在12月17號早上10點到下午3點之間，還目擊C教授出現在臺大醫院兒醫大樓婦產科樓層，完全無視臺大醫院為保護受害人的公文，要求婦產科對C教授的行動範圍進行管制。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:10:37.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:10:42.717000+08:00","text":"我想知道吳院長是否有發公文，希望對他的行動範圍進行管制，您有發嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:10:45.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:11:02.829000+08:00","text":"謝謝陳委員，那天他是來看牙齒，看完以後他確實有去，我們知道以後，院方有請警衛去處理，而且我們也下了一個公文，就是今後只要看到他進入婦產部，警衛就會把他……","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:11:02.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:11:04.210000+08:00","text":"那天他去婦產部幹嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:11:04.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:11:05.111000+08:00","text":"他不是已經離職了嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:11:05.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:11:10.053000+08:00","text":"所以我們接到這個訊息以後，院方馬上就請……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:11:10.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:11:13.736000+08:00","text":"那你之後會如何保護這些受害人？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:11:15.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:11:33.289000+08:00","text":"我相信他應該不能進入婦產部，因為我們已經把他的卡都收回來了，要進入婦產部跟兒科部都必須要刷卡，而他現在已經沒有卡，至於那一天他是怎麼進去的，我們還在調查到底是誰幫他開門。","quality":0.823},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:11:34.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:11:37.537000+08:00","text":"所以你大概兩週內可以給我們這個報告嗎？會的。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:11:37.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:11:45.393000+08:00","text":"他是怎麼接觸到這些受害人的，還有他怎麼進去的，以及他有沒有遇到前列的這些受害人？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:11:46.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:11:52.482000+08:00","text":"好像是沒有，因為那一天包括高副院長以及另外一位主管……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:11:52.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:11:55.704000+08:00","text":"所以你們當天其實是有收到訊息，有人檢舉他又出現了？對。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:11:57.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:11:58.706000+08:00","text":"還有其他天嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:11:58.706000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:12:13.399000+08:00","text":"其他天就沒有了，除了那一天以外，因為那一天以後，我們就加強管控，本來兒醫大樓，特別是病房區都是刷卡才能進去，假如沒有卡，除非裡面的人開門你才能進去。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:12:14.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:12:21.832000+08:00","text":"就我所知，C教授的卡我們很早就收回了，因為他已經離職了。","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:12:22.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:12:28.638000+08:00","text":"好，那就兩個禮拜靜候您的報告，還有您未來要如何加強保護？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:12:28.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:12:44.433000+08:00","text":"您身為醫師，其實您也知道女醫師……就是師徒制手把手的，有時候教看診、教開刀、寫論文、一起出國開會，你看有多少機會有辦法利用權勢進行這些惡行，這些您都可以理解吧！","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:12:45.153000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:12:49.037000+08:00","text":"其實我可以理解，而且我們也很重視。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:12:49.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:12:57.405000+08:00","text":"在此也順便謝謝陳委員給我這個機會澄清，剛才你說我在笑，其實是沒有，這是醫師的禮貌……","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:12:57.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:13:18.485000+08:00","text":"好，我們先不要講這個，今天就好好來討論這件事情，我先跟你講，剛剛你說你是因為雇主知悉，知道依照性別平等法第十三條的規定，但是沒有申訴人的話，其實整個調查或是報告都是在秘密的過程，而且是不需要懲處的。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:13:18.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:13:23.230000+08:00","text":"我想知道當你沒有申訴人的時候，為什麼你要去懲戒呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:13:24.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:13:41.999000+08:00","text":"因為這個案子非常重大，其實從110年開始，院方就已經處理過很多性騷的案子，在我的資料裡面，110年我們接收到7件，7件都成立，而且都有懲處，其實每年都有。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:13:42.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:13:58.573000+08:00","text":"這件事情比較特別，因為我覺得這個醫師的權勢這麼大，而且輩分這麼高，發生這種事情……雖然沒有申訴人，但是我們一定要主動，所以那時候我就跟高副院長說一定要毋枉毋縱，因為這個影響會很大。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:14:00.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:14:06.381000+08:00","text":"你的意思是說雇主知悉，其實是透過簡訊知悉，但受害人不想申訴……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:14:06.381000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:14:07.582000+08:00","text":"對，他不想出來，因為他還在裡面工作。","quality":0.133},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:14:07.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:14:11.487000+08:00","text":"其實是不想申訴，並不是沒有申訴人，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T10:14:11.487000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:14:12.487000+08:00","text":"對，沒有申訴。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:14:11.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:14:16.311000+08:00","text":"所以你就知道這個影響有多大，他還在那邊工作，所以他不敢申訴。對。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:14:16.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:14:27.255000+08:00","text":"所以勞動部、教育部應該要積極協助這些比較弱勢的、還沒有通過執照的女醫師，我們今天就是希望好好來討論這件事。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:14:28.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:14:42.579000+08:00","text":"院長，就這樣看起來，不管是有人申訴或是你耳聞，我希望你把它變成一個臺大醫院正式的……或者是可以讓每一個醫院來看我們如何去保護這些學生階級的醫師好嗎？好。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:14:42.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:14:45.120000+08:00","text":"不要再被人家寫性騷醫院了，真的很丟臉。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:14:45.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:14:47.162000+08:00","text":"再來我要請教臺大校方，為什麼我們這麼擔心黑箱審查？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:14:47.282000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:14:47.803000+08:00","text":"你們是不是去年7月才被監察院糾正？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:14:47.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:14:48.343000+08:00","text":"你們的教評會跟性平會是不是才剛被監察院糾正？","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T10:15:02.383000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:15:04.826000+08:00","text":"是，的確監察院有來函。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:15:05.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:15:54.588000+08:00","text":"對啊，我們不能從性騷醫院又變成性騷大學，監察院裡面講得非常的明確，它說你們臺大跟其他學校比起來，其他學校──淡江、中正、輔仁抓到教師有性騷擾，就是終身解聘，結果你們的性平會、教評會面對一位公衛學院副教授性騷案的時候，這位教師所受到的處罰跟其他學校類似案件是完全無法比擬，在會議紀錄上更刻意隱瞞該名建議輕罰的委員，也就是說，你們已經比別人判得少了，你們說要停職3年，然後你們在性平會還有教評會裡面居然有匿名的委員跟大家「河蟹」，跟大家說：好啦，我們一起把3年改成1年。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:15:55.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:16:03.553000+08:00","text":"最後你們被監察院糾正，你們這批人7月被監察院糾正，然後現在又要去開這個C教授的教評會跟性平會，你覺得合理嗎？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T10:16:07.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:16:21.269000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們教評會的委員事實上是每一年都會不一樣，他們是獨立運作，的確整個程序當中，性平會、教評會他們都有開會，這個結果就是剛剛講的。","quality":0.869},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:16:26.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:16:32.612000+08:00","text":"你就簡單的回答我，你們被糾正以後有想要檢討性平會跟教評會嗎？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:16:32.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:16:35.373000+08:00","text":"還是你們覺得不用，你們做得很棒、很好？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T10:16:36.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:16:57.084000+08:00","text":"沒有，跟委員報告一下，我也利用這個機會跟大家重申，不管是臺大或臺大醫院，剛剛院長也講了，我們都很重視性平，而且我們對性平是零容忍，所以發生任何事情，我們都一定會依法積極地處理，法律上該做的我們都會做，然後在教育上，我們也會好好教育。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:16:57.204000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:17:17.944000+08:00","text":"好，我稍微問一下，像我們立法院的范雲委員其實也在臺大教授婦女、性別相關的課程，你們臺大這些性別相關的學程林林總總少說三、四十個，但你們的性平會成員是不是沒有一個是來自性別或是婦女相關的？沒有！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T10:17:19.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:17:37.525000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這個部分我們有討論過，因為本來我們的性平委員是由各個院來推薦，校長這邊是有幾個名額可以邀請相關的專家，我們今年開始性別這邊的教授，至少會有一個人在我們的性平委員裡面。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:17:37.766000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:17:38.587000+08:00","text":"至少會有一個人喔？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T10:17:38.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:17:39.067000+08:00","text":"對，至少。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:17:40.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:17:43.211000+08:00","text":"這個在性平會裡面至少會一個人，所以表示你們以前沒有耶！","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T10:17:44.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:17:56.442000+08:00","text":"因為上一屆的性平會沒有做性別平等研究的老師，但是各個學院可能派來的人本身就是性平的專家，這是有的，譬如說……","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:17:57.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:18:00.367000+08:00","text":"沒有，我查了，他們都沒有在學程裡面授課，性別相關……","quality":1},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T10:18:00.367000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:18:01.367000+08:00","text":"教這個課……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:18:00.367000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:18:01.629000+08:00","text":"所以你是如何認證他具有參加性平會的資格？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T10:18:01.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:18:15.709000+08:00","text":"就是我剛剛講的，各個學院會推薦他們覺得比較合適當性平的委員，這個部分如果他是專業的，不管是他有教這個課或是他有做相關的研究。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:18:15.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:18:40.856000+08:00","text":"我跟你們說，你們才剛被糾正，這件事情全國的人都在看，尤其是女醫師、女學生、研究醫師、住院醫師，全國的人都在看，我分享一個哲學家漢娜．鄂蘭說的「平庸的邪惡」，他在講說當一群人不制止惡行，反而當作是正常的，原本就是這樣做、長期都是這樣做來縱容，甚至參與其中，就是在助長邪惡。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:18:40.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:18:47.561000+08:00","text":"所以我希望你最後性平會、教評會的報告，可以還給這些受害人一個公道，好嗎？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T10:18:47.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:18:49.962000+08:00","text":"是，我們一定會好好的調查跟懲處。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:18:50.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:18:51.023000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝三位。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:18:52.484000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:18:52.604000+08:00","text":"再2分鐘，對不起。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:18:52.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:18:52.684000+08:00","text":"邱部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2025-01-02T10:18:52.684000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:19:02.052000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:19:02.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:19:20.563000+08:00","text":"邱部長，您前幾天、12月30號回應許多民團的，因為您知道我們在衛環委員會也有講，不管是針對這些幼教的狼師或是保母等等，我們都會設置一個平臺讓大家安心，你說針對狼醫可以研擬建置平臺，「可以研擬」是你要做，還是你不要做？","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:19:20.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:19:20.863000+08:00","text":"還是你會研擬或不會研擬？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:19:20.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:19:21.303000+08:00","text":"因為你只有說「可以研擬」。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2025-01-02T10:19:24.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:19:42.498000+08:00","text":"我想我們要澄清，今天整個早上討論相關的一個機制，不管是從學校、職場、醫院，已經討論很多，基本上衛福部當然是一直關注著做我們應該要做的事情。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2025-01-02T10:19:43.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:19:56.849000+08:00","text":"有關要建立狼醫查詢平臺的部分，因為有這樣的一個建議，我們認為建立一個平臺來公布這樣的資訊，其實看起來是值得研議的，所以要研議。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:19:56.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:20:01.231000+08:00","text":"好，那我會再追您研擬的進度。好的。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:20:01.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:20:21.699000+08:00","text":"再來，我不知道你有沒有聽聞，您最近要開始推30歲免費健檢，這是個德政，我覺得非常的好，立意良善，可是您知道衛福部有發了一份文件，叫做醫事服務機構辦理預防保健服務注意事項，您知道有這件事嗎？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2025-01-02T10:20:23.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:20:24.174000+08:00","text":"這個我大概知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:20:24.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:20:27.195000+08:00","text":"好，你知道炸鍋了嘛，對不對？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:20:27.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:20:48.461000+08:00","text":"我們就簡單的跟大家講一下，現在雖然你宣傳成人健檢下降到30歲，但是你發了另外一份文件，跟第一線的醫護人員說，如果這些人原本就有三高，有定期檢查、有定期治療，或者是有被糖尿病P4P計畫收案，衛福部將不會核付這筆費用，你應該看得出問題在哪裡吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2025-01-02T10:20:52.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:21:06.586000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝陳委員給我這個機會再度跟全國的醫療院所說明，經過國民健康署的澄清，明年度絕對不會去做這一部分的勾稽，為什麼？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2025-01-02T10:21:06.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:21:36.897000+08:00","text":"因為我們要站在人民的立場，而不是站在會計或者是我們公務的立場，因為在公務上面，我想委員可能也……我過去幾十年也接過很多衛福部各個署的計畫，管制得非常嚴格，而且不能有重複，所以我們這個可能是事務單位很擔心，民眾在健保這邊有做，現在在健檢這邊也做，是不是會重複？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2025-01-02T10:21:36.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:21:37.778000+08:00","text":"但是我覺得站在醫師的立場，我保證……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:21:37.778000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:21:39.759000+08:00","text":"還有病人的立場。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2025-01-02T10:21:39.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:21:49.224000+08:00","text":"我現在先講一個，醫師沒那麼笨，醫師一定知道，他哪有可能GOT抽2次的，對不對？","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2025-01-02T10:21:49.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:21:51.765000+08:00","text":"不可能嘛，會有任何一個醫師做這種事嗎？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2025-01-02T10:21:51.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:22:02.188000+08:00","text":"一定是這裡可以做GOT，那裡也可以做GOT，那他一定是選一個或者是兩個合起來，站在病人最佳的利益，來做專業的處理，一般都是這樣子。","quality":0.797},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:22:02.188000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:22:03.188000+08:00","text":"好，我希望……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2025-01-02T10:22:02.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:22:07.491000+08:00","text":"所以這個部分跟我們行政部門的互動，在這個部分是有一個需要協調的gap……","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:22:09.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:22:15.559000+08:00","text":"部長，我跟你講這件事有三個面向要分析，第一個，你跟全國的人說可以做健檢，這個很棒！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:22:16.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:22:19.283000+08:00","text":"但是第二個，你沒有跟全國的人說，有三高的不能喔！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:22:20.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:22:50.256000+08:00","text":"這個你沒說，所以你的政令宣導就有問題，當然這些人也會覺得他已經繳健保費了，他本來就應該要做這個你提供的30歲健檢，而且部長您太久沒有在第一線了，光是把2張醫師卡跟健保卡插好，並且連到VPN，再去找他有沒有糖尿病，我告訴你，我帶著你操作一遍你就知道要花多久的時間，不可能整個早上都在做這件事情，所以這件事我們一定要從IT端去克服，你才可以執行，這樣子好嗎？","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2025-01-02T10:22:51.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:23:00.692000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我是去年的520上任以後才沒有接觸第一線，過去40年每一個禮拜都會看診。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2025-01-02T10:23:01.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:23:07.757000+08:00","text":"當立委的時候，因為我是借調的，我有義務回去做指導門診，都有接觸。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:23:07.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:23:09.958000+08:00","text":"那我們一起試一下，要很久啦！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2025-01-02T10:23:10.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:23:29.695000+08:00","text":"這件事情我很謝謝你了解基層的聲音，真的要處理，國健署已經在處理了，請全國醫療院所安心，我們一定會把它處理到病人需要什麼檢查，我們儘量都做完整的健康檢查，來落實健康臺灣真正的目標，感謝你！","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2025-01-02T10:23:29.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:23:33.039000+08:00","text":"好，我們也會再繼續追您在這個IT端的進度，謝謝部長。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2025-01-02T10:23:33.039000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:23:34.039000+08:00","text":"好，沒問題。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T10:23:33.119000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:23:33.239000+08:00","text":"謝謝陳委員，謝謝部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T10:23:33.739000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:23:43.167571+08:00","text":"看一個診，從開始來插雙卡、三卡，到看完結束，要跳二十幾個畫面，真的是滿麻煩的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T10:23:43.467571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:23:47.181857+08:00","text":"好，我們接續請邱鎮軍委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}