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麻煩請部長我請您部長部長早我也好"},{"start":16.701,"end":36.783,"text":"我想要請教一下本席在上週其實有詢問過因為今天我們外交部主要的內容大概是推動二軌外交跟元首外交的這個部分可是我們從過去幾年我們的外交成果就是我們所有的邦交國掉了幾乎一半"},{"start":37.424,"end":65.106,"text":"那在很多的外交推動上面我們也花了非常多的資源甚至我們在國內很多重要的產業其實我們大概都拿出來當成外交的手段跟工具那如果可以獲得有效的或者正面的那當然可能很多的方式並不是不可以可是包括我們要接收像有一些產業比如說國外"},{"start":67.488,"end":71.371,"text":"快要破產的公司財務有問題的公司我們可能也要去採購這個對我們付出相當龐大可是二軌外交可能顯然在我們的正常外交上面我想要請教部長你對於我們現在目前的邦交國或者我們其他現在友好的關係的國家我們的目前的成果如何"},{"start":91.755,"end":107.461,"text":"在惡鬼外交方面我們要感謝美國就是國會支持那透過AIT在執行那個GCTF全球合作訓練架構那也包括這個日本澳大利亞之後現在加了加拿大"},{"start":108.461,"end":123.416,"text":"進來做會員所以我們擴展出去其實很多的合作訓練這個其實是多邊的一種惡鬼外交也可以是這樣講另外我們台灣其實跟比如說我們理念相近國家特別我們第一島鏈還有歐洲幾乎是"},{"start":127.529,"end":150.421,"text":"就是說有智庫也有我們官員他們比較能夠有辦法抗中那至於有一些地方像東南亞他們真的是比較不管是親中或恐中他們就顧忌很多那我們有些是邀請來台灣那有些用什麼樣的方式去進行惡鬼外交也都很頻繁的在進行最重要是台灣的重要性增加了台灣這個的角色"},{"start":152.242,"end":177.828,"text":"就是要了解我們現在整個中國崛起的威權擴張的挑戰跟這個問題是不能夠不跟台灣有一些交流跟台灣交流是最快的方法部長我大概給你很多的時間做這樣的說明可是我現在要說的是我們正常的外交因為歐洲為什麼他比較不會恐中是因為他距離很遠就跟美國川普總統他講的"},{"start":179.508,"end":203.276,"text":"其實我們的距離高達9000公里以外那我們跟大陸其實我們近在咫尺所以到時候這些會不會來正式協助我們我們不曉得 可是看到俄烏戰爭的時候我們可以很明確的知道其實他們並沒有真正的不管出兵也好或者做實質上面的這些防禦或者攻擊"},{"start":205.357,"end":223.986,"text":"他們大概提供的都是一些武器裝備或者其他的制裁行動那顯然我們面對的可能是更強大的威脅那這一部分我們不曉得美國歐洲或者其他我們剛剛講的五眼聯盟的這些相關的國家可以對我們提供什麼樣的實質幫助可是我們現在比較想要知道的是比較務實的部分因為我們編了非常多的外交預算可是我們"},{"start":231.109,"end":249.573,"text":"如果連上週我們一直不斷的詢問包括在預算審查的時候也有特別詢問到的可是到現在沒有一個具體的解決方案我認為我們的外交預算真的是太多了因為他根本做不到什麼事情尤其是連他不是總預算的問題而是外交部需不需要這麼多的預算首先我想要請教的是在上週我們已經問到"},{"start":258.635,"end":277.429,"text":"就是沙烏地阿拉伯阿曼約旦這些在台住處他們跟阿拉伯在台商務協會這個民間協會發生這個問題到目前為止我們看不到他的解決方案因為我看到我們提供的資料這個是從112年2月的時候這三個駐台機構已經分別給外交部"},{"start":285.734,"end":294.421,"text":"區提到說這個商會其實他是有問題的希望我們外交部給予釐清或者甚至在國內應該做什麼樣的處置可是這個是112年2月現在是114年的元月等於快要兩年的時間這中間我們做了什麼到目前為止我只是詢問說"},{"start":309.012,"end":322.066,"text":"我們有沒有發函給這三個住處因為他們畢竟是官方而且是正式的也被我們認可的一些一個代表那我們到底做了什麼樣的協處的動作兩年"},{"start":325.974,"end":352.547,"text":"來我請我們亞非市長來說明想跟委員報告這個議題基本上分為三個部分第一個部分就是簡單講就好了因為你們已經講太多了ACCT它本身就是冒用官方性質這個部分已經處理過了這個沒問題嘛對不對對已經處理過了那第二個部分呢可以怎麼處理它是冒用官方那個我們已經發函了而且調查局還有那個警政署還有我們內政部都已經處理好了這個事情已經是告一段落怎麼處理好了"},{"start":353.227,"end":376.554,"text":"發函然後也強制他不可以再使用了不可以再使用什麼不可以再使用官方性質具體的把它講完就是說他不能再冒用代表阿拉伯國家的一個助台那事實上我們部裡面也發過通函也告知所有的一些部內的單位還有相關機關他不具官方的性質因為所有具官方性質的助台是必須在我們禮賓處要有登記的他貨款敘利亞的贈災款你們知道怎麼用了嗎"},{"start":383.128,"end":400.092,"text":"這個部分他是依據他自己民團的那個在做處理我們在國內所有的相關社團如果要募款的時候都必須要經過我們所有內政部他必須要認可不是你什麼民團他就可以這樣募款他必須依據衛福部的相關規則所以像這個部分你們怎麼做這部分我們有通知那個相關的機關就他不具任何官方的身份內政部還有警政署你外交部明知道他已經有問題你可以做的是什麼"},{"start":412.043,"end":433.036,"text":"我們也一直跟他保持密切的溝通跟誰?跟誰保持密切的溝通?這三個住台我們平常都有密切的溝通我們上一次有問說我們有沒有發函給這三個住處他們有外交豁免權嗎?民事形式有嗎?這個就是我要跟委員報告的第二個部分有或沒有就好 有或沒有"},{"start":434.557,"end":442.706,"text":"有或沒有?沙烏地有,那另外兩個代表處是沒有沒有的原因是什麼?沒有是因為雙邊沒有互惠那過程中我們一直美國給我們有沒有互惠?如果我們的國人,我們一個軍人在美國打人的時候美國會不會給我們這些相關的這些外交豁免?"},{"start":454.199,"end":462.784,"text":"會不會如果有我們的武官派在美國如果他喝醉酒他去打了美國的公民他們會不會給我們外交豁免"},{"start":465.96,"end":470.263,"text":"報告委員我們現在就是說非邦交國的部分簡單講就好了有沒有給我們外交豁免美國有沒有給我們有給我們把資料提供給我們不要再講機密了今天這個已經發生在我們的自己的土地上面我們的國人被美國人毆打的時候今天為什麼"},{"start":486.051,"end":498.725,"text":"那個AIT的人員他不去找外交部他直接找國防部他是怎麼處理的今天他是直接打給國防部然後直接把人帶出來甚至叫他們不要提告人就走了"},{"start":499.793,"end":518.325,"text":"今天我們認可的官方的代表在這裡被剛剛你們說的違規違法的民間團體組織被他們提告被他們騷擾被他們霸凌被他們在網路上面惡意的攻擊可是我們一點作為都沒有那你們要這些預算做什麼"},{"start":520.663,"end":533.369,"text":"你到現在還沒有處理的結果部長我相信您說你接任部長這個位置沒有很久的時間可是這個案子我們不斷在預算為什麼我們會特別提出來這是國格的問題今天"},{"start":537.884,"end":543.368,"text":"有人可以打我們的國人你說他有他的身份是什麼他是AIT正式的人員嗎是嗎你們把如果要這樣我們必須要追究他到底是什麼樣的身份背景因為我們今天不是人家的殖民地今天如果你要對等那請把相關的資料提供給國人很清楚的知道我們是怎麼樣對等我們有很多我們都認為我們"},{"start":564.142,"end":568.029,"text":"可能比較高額的資源或者我們什麼樣的一些"},{"start":569.584,"end":593.04,"text":"條件我們可以在雙邊可以獲得比較好的發展的情況之下我們都同意可是你今天他們美國在台協會的人員我不知道他是不是正式的在台協會的人員如果你今天要在這裡講那你又把它講清楚而且書面資料一定要提供上一次你明明說要提供書面資料後來又變機敏為什麼有機敏今天我們的人員在國外或者外國的"},{"start":600.144,"end":617.832,"text":"駐外使節或者相關的人員他們必須受到我們重視的時候這個有什麼機敏可言所以在這裡我想我們希望的平等互惠還有國格我們在處理這個事情的時候我不知道為什麼你們怕什麼你們只是發個文給他說你到底有或沒有"},{"start":618.712,"end":642.811,"text":"在1971年退出聯合國的時候我們曾經經歷雪崩式的斷交約旦在這個時候贈送他們外館的土地我們目前使用的就是約旦送的我們現在雙邊都還有一些國安還有軍人還有一些教育上面的交流持續在進行中他們很快的已經要停止這樣子的交流"},{"start":643.712,"end":651.858,"text":"就是因為我們的處置兩年了人家一個晚上打人的他都可以把他帶走而且還叫他不需要提告這個部分我們外交做不到外交部做不到那你們編錢到底要做什麼另外尼加拉瓜我們的住處是我們花錢買的我們花人民的納稅錢後來時間你們說時間來不及本來說要提告"},{"start":668.43,"end":675.954,"text":"後來也沒有提告我們用一元的價值捐給天主教會可是後來白白的就送給中國了這一種你們連一句話都講不出來人家送給我們外館現在你還在用可是你對待人家的方式是這樣部長你的看法怎麼樣跟委員報告 委員所說的外交已經基於對等跟互惠那我們如果有外交豁免"},{"start":695.445,"end":720.783,"text":"一定是就是對等的啦但是如果在執行上因為具體的個案有沒有涉及哪個主管機關比如委員我在第一時間知道之後我想他們既然在台灣涉處啦我站在外交部來講的都是我們要去關心的不能夠什麼一下子什麼徵訊啦 約談然後另外如果說有一些影響到他們這些在台灣公權力的執行我們當然也馬上跟內政部"},{"start":721.363,"end":725.944,"text":"我因為我們留給時間我們留給時間我現在只是一個比較你不管面對比較強的國家或比較弱的國家或者跟我們關係並不是你們認為不那麼密切的國家你都應該是對等所謂的對等是我們的人被欺負了你也不能幫他拍拍屁股我們自己自認倒楣然後你對很多的國家那你應該處理啊如果他查出來的身份如果不是那你就應該處理"},{"start":748.049,"end":753.59,"text":"因為這有涉及到內政警政署相關的單位我要再說警政署或其他那外交部就不需要這麼多經費我已經強調三次了我現在在說的是我們算審過可是當我們覺得你們不值得要這麼多的經費的時候你們外交部的預算跟過去真的增加很多可是我們看到我們邦交國不斷的流失甚至連這樣的處置都沒有辦法"},{"start":773.834,"end":777.236,"text":"聖路西亞到現在他的網站上面還掛著我們幫他寫的那篇文章我們派出去的一個詐騙販毒的外交替代役到幫他們的警察上課的這個文章到目前為止我剛剛再詢問了一下他還在聖路西亞的官網上所以你們一直在說你們做了多少事然後可以做什麼有什麼樣的作為我們不認為你們值得"},{"start":800.846,"end":804.549,"text":"要這麼多的預算這是我再次強調我們到現在還沒有看到這三個住處他們我們的石油其實跟這三個國家就是跟我來跟他們見個面啦"},{"start":815.819,"end":825.607,"text":"因為每次委員執行我就交班 他們跟我的報告也都有接觸也確實依照我們外交的關係在處理那我是覺得 如果委員這麼感謝我來關懷一下部長 為什麼會特別舉美國的例子我們不跟美國說什麼話 人家害怕我們去找工作 還不可以跟我們的人說"},{"start":836.756,"end":839.979,"text":"今天有另外一件事情你卻處理了兩年都處理不好這是什麼樣的外交對等有處理中我們有發函以外我本身也在備詢的時候有提到那些有涉及違法我們就要"},{"start":852.067,"end":870.325,"text":"聽我講完所謂的查辦到剛剛你有聽到查辦了什麼嗎今天人家如果連發生直接的民事糾紛甚至有毆打他都可以把人帶走我們現在不是說有發函有所有的單位就是對他這些沒有用沒有效益的章"},{"start":871.045,"end":894.15,"text":"部長我這裡有你們發函的那種為什麼我會再問就是因為你們沒有做就是因為你們沒有做就是因為你們沒有做約旦已經要終止要把人員送到我們台灣的這樣的計畫這個維持了四五十四十幾年這樣子的計畫他們要終止了部長你要正視今天如果他真的終止你們的預算應該全部砍掉謝謝"},{"start":897.368,"end":903.753,"text":"投資當然我們希望盡量招商啦不過投資跟我們的政務啊還是對我們來努力"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:36:55.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:36:58.272000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，麻煩請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T10:36:58.552000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:37:06.618000+08:00","text":"有請林部長。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:37:06.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:37:06.898000+08:00","text":"部長早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:37:07.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:37:07.459000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:37:12.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:37:31.763000+08:00","text":"請教一下，本席在上週有詢問過今天我們討論的外交部推動二軌外交與元首外交這個部分，可是從過去幾年我們的外交成果來看，我們的邦交國掉了幾乎一半！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:37:32.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:37:45.234000+08:00","text":"在外交推動上，我們也花了非常多的資源，甚至國內很多重要產業大概都拿出來當成外交的手段跟工具。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:37:46.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:37:54.242000+08:00","text":"如果可以獲得有效或正面的成果，當然用如此諸多的方式並不是不可以。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:37:54.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:38:04.029000+08:00","text":"但是像接收一些產業，比如國外快要破產的公司、財務有問題的公司，我們可能也要去採購，並付出相當龐大的代價。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:38:04.189000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:38:06.351000+08:00","text":"因此，我想就二軌外交與我們正常的外交關係請教部長，對於我們現在的邦交國或其他與我們有友好關係的國家中，目前的成果如何？","quality":0.745},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:38:26.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:38:45.263000+08:00","text":"在二軌外交方面，我們要感謝美國國會支持，透過AIT來執行GCTF全球合作訓練架構，包括日本、澳大利亞之後，現在加了加拿大進來做會員。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:38:45.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:38:52.850000+08:00","text":"我們也擴展出很多的合作訓練，這其實是多邊的二軌外交，也可以這樣講。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:38:52.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:39:07.792000+08:00","text":"另外，我們臺灣跟理念相近國家，特別我們第一島鏈與歐洲幾乎是一軌半，也就是說有智庫，也有我們的官員，他們比較有辦法抗中。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:39:08.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:39:15.176000+08:00","text":"至於一些地方像東南亞，他們真的比較親中或恐中，所以顧忌很多。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:39:15.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:39:21.939000+08:00","text":"我們有些是邀請來臺灣，有些則用其他方式去進行二軌外交，這些都很頻繁在進行。","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:39:22.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:39:40.765000+08:00","text":"最重要的是臺灣的重要性增加了，臺灣的角色……也就是想了解中國崛起的威權擴張、挑戰與問題，就不能不跟臺灣有一些交流，跟臺灣交流是最快的方法。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:39:41.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:39:48.047000+08:00","text":"謝謝部長，我給你很多時間做說明，但我現在要說的是正常外交。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:39:49.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:39:50.527000+08:00","text":"為什麼歐洲比較不恐中？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:39:50.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:40:02.911000+08:00","text":"因為距離很遠，這就跟美國川普總統所講的一樣，彼此距離高達9,000公里，但我們跟大陸卻近在咫尺！","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:40:04.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:40:07.152000+08:00","text":"到時候這些會不會正式來協助我們？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:40:07.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:40:08.193000+08:00","text":"我們不曉得！","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:40:08.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:40:30.242000+08:00","text":"可是看到俄烏戰爭，我們卻可以很明確知道他們並沒有真正的……不管是出兵或實質上的防禦或攻擊，他們大概就是提供一些武器裝備或採取其他的制裁行動，所以顯然我們面對的是更強大的威脅！","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:40:30.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:40:37.465000+08:00","text":"這一部分不曉得美國、歐洲或剛剛講的五眼聯盟的相關國家，可以對我們提供什麼樣的實質幫助？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:40:37.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:40:38.706000+08:00","text":"其實我們現在比較想知道的是務實部分，畢竟我們編了非常多的外交預算。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:40:38.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:41:02.092000+08:00","text":"但我們從上週就一直不斷詢問，包括在預算審查時也特別詢問，可是到現在沒有一個具體的解決方案，我認為我們的外交預算真的是太多了，因為它根本做不到什麼事情，尤其是連……","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:41:02.092000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:41:03.092000+08:00","text":"不會啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:41:03.092000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:41:04.092000+08:00","text":"我們占總預算1%而已。","quality":0},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:41:02.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:41:02.733000+08:00","text":"不是總預算的問題，而是外交部需不需要這麼多的預算。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:41:02.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:41:49.181000+08:00","text":"首先，我想要請教的是，在上週我們已經問到沙烏地阿拉伯、阿曼、約旦這些在臺駐處，他們跟阿拉伯在臺商務協會這個民間協會發生問題，到目前為止，我們看不到它的解決方案，因為我看到我們提供的資料，這個是從112年2月的時候，這三個駐臺機構已經分別跟外交部提到這個商會其實是有問題的，希望我們外交部給予釐清，或者甚至在國內應該做什麼樣的處置，可是這是112年2月，現在是114年的元月，等於快要兩年的時間，這中間我們做了什麼？","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:41:49.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:42:16.765000+08:00","text":"到目前為止，我只是詢問我們有沒有發函給這三個駐處，因為他們畢竟是官方，而且是正式的，也被我們認可的代表，這兩年我們到底做了什麼樣協處的動作？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:42:20.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:42:23.695000+08:00","text":"我請我們亞非司長來說明。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"賀司長忠義","start":"2025-01-02T10:42:24.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:42:28.037000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這個議題基本上分為三個部分，第一個部分……","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:42:28.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:42:30.159000+08:00","text":"簡單講就好了，因為你們已經講太多了。是。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"賀司長忠義","start":"2025-01-02T10:42:30.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:42:34.200000+08:00","text":"ACCT它本身就是冒用官方性質，這個部分已經處理過了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:42:34.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:42:34.781000+08:00","text":"這個沒問題嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:42:34.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:42:35.101000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賀司長忠義","start":"2025-01-02T10:42:35.101000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:42:36.722000+08:00","text":"已經處理過了，第二個部分……","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:42:37.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:42:38.282000+08:00","text":"可以怎麼處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:42:38.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:42:39.343000+08:00","text":"它是冒用官方，這是有違規、違法的，怎麼處理？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"賀司長忠義","start":"2025-01-02T10:42:39.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:42:46.987000+08:00","text":"我們已經發函，而且調查局、警政署，還有我們內政部都已經處理好了，這個事情已經是告一段落……","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:42:47.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:42:47.527000+08:00","text":"怎麼處理好了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:42:47.527000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:42:48.527000+08:00","text":"處理結果是什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"賀司長忠義","start":"2025-01-02T10:42:48.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:42:50.748000+08:00","text":"發函，然後也強制它不可以再使用了……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:42:51.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:42:53.069000+08:00","text":"不可以再使用什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賀司長忠義","start":"2025-01-02T10:42:53.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:42:54.929000+08:00","text":"是，不可以再使用官方性質……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:42:54.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:42:55.569000+08:00","text":"具體的把它講完，不可以使用什麼？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"賀司長忠義","start":"2025-01-02T10:42:56.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:43:11.034000+08:00","text":"就是它不能再冒用代表阿拉伯國家的一個駐台，事實上，我們部裡面也發過通函，也告知所有部內的單位，還有相關機關，它不具官方的性質，因為所有具官方性質的駐台是必須在我們禮賓處有登記的，這個部分已經處理過了。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:43:11.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:43:11.554000+08:00","text":"它募款敘利亞的賑災款，你們知道怎麼用了嗎？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"賀司長忠義","start":"2025-01-02T10:43:18.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:43:22.509000+08:00","text":"這個部分，它是依據它自己民團的那個在做處理……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:43:22.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:43:29.011000+08:00","text":"我們在國內所有的相關社團，如果要募款的時候都必須要經過內政部認可……","quality":1},{"speaker":"賀司長忠義","start":"2025-01-02T10:43:29.011000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:43:30.011000+08:00","text":"還有衛福部……","quality":0},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:43:29.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:43:31.831000+08:00","text":"不是什麼民團就可以這樣募款……","quality":1},{"speaker":"賀司長忠義","start":"2025-01-02T10:43:32.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:43:32.452000+08:00","text":"它必須依據衛福部的相關規定。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:43:32.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:43:32.912000+08:00","text":"對，所以像這個部分，你們怎麼做？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"賀司長忠義","start":"2025-01-02T10:43:33.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:43:33.992000+08:00","text":"這部分我們有通知相關的機關，就是它不具任何官方的身分……","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:43:33.992000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:43:34.992000+08:00","text":"相關的機關是什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"賀司長忠義","start":"2025-01-02T10:43:34.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:43:34.232000+08:00","text":"內政部還有警政署。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:43:34.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:43:35.092000+08:00","text":"你外交部明知道它已經有問題，你可以做的是什麼？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"賀司長忠義","start":"2025-01-02T10:43:47.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:43:51.086000+08:00","text":"我們也一直跟它保持密切的溝通。跟誰？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"賀司長忠義","start":"2025-01-02T10:43:51.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:43:52.086000+08:00","text":"事實上禮賓處也……","quality":0},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:43:51.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:43:52.747000+08:00","text":"跟誰保持密切的溝通？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賀司長忠義","start":"2025-01-02T10:43:53.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:43:55.268000+08:00","text":"這三個駐台，我們平常都有密切的溝通。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:43:55.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:44:00.111000+08:00","text":"我上一次有問，我們有沒有發函給這三個駐處？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:44:00.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:44:01.532000+08:00","text":"他們有外交豁免權嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:44:01.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:44:04.374000+08:00","text":"民事、刑事有嗎？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"賀司長忠義","start":"2025-01-02T10:44:04.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:44:06.195000+08:00","text":"這個就是我要跟委員報告的第二個部分……","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:44:06.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:44:08.016000+08:00","text":"簡單回答有或沒有就好，有或沒有？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"賀司長忠義","start":"2025-01-02T10:44:10.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:44:13.161000+08:00","text":"沙烏地有，另外兩個代表處是沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:44:13.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:44:14.563000+08:00","text":"沒有的原因是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賀司長忠義","start":"2025-01-02T10:44:14.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:44:15.364000+08:00","text":"沒有是因為雙邊沒有互惠，過程中我們一直……","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:44:15.504000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:44:16.085000+08:00","text":"美國跟我們有沒有互惠？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:44:16.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:44:17.686000+08:00","text":"如果我們的國人，我們一個軍人在美國打人的時候，美國會不會給我們這些相關的外交豁免？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:44:29.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:44:30.460000+08:00","text":"會不會？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:44:30.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:44:37.764000+08:00","text":"如果有我們的武官派在美國，如果他喝醉酒，他去打了美國的公民，他們會不會給我們外交豁免？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳處長欣新","start":"2025-01-02T10:44:40.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:44:42.861000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們現在就是非邦交國的部分……","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:44:42.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:44:43.622000+08:00","text":"簡單講就好了，有沒有給我們外交豁免，美國有沒有給我們？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳處長欣新","start":"2025-01-02T10:44:43.622000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:44:44.622000+08:00","text":"有一定的豁免，我們官方是有……","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:44:43.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:44:43.862000+08:00","text":"把資料提供給我們。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳處長欣新","start":"2025-01-02T10:44:43.862000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:44:44.862000+08:00","text":"我們跟美國……","quality":0},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:44:43.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:44:44.122000+08:00","text":"不要再講機密了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:44:44.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:45:06.638000+08:00","text":"今天已經發生在我們自己的土地上面，我們國人被美國人毆打的時候，今天為什麼那個AIT的人員不去找外交部，他直接找國防部，他是怎麼處理的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:45:07.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:45:13.705000+08:00","text":"他是直接打給國防部，然後直接把人帶出來，甚至叫他們不要提告，人就走了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:45:15.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:45:33.325000+08:00","text":"我們認可的官方代表在這裡被你們剛剛說的違規、違法的民間團體組織，被他們提告、被他們騷擾、被他們霸凌、被他們在網路上面惡意的攻擊，可是我們一點作為都沒有，那麼你們要這些預算做什麼？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:45:35.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:45:38.124000+08:00","text":"你們到現在還沒有處理的結果耶！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:45:38.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:45:55.246000+08:00","text":"部長，我相信您說接任部長這個位置沒有很久的時間，可是這個案子我們不斷在預算……為什麼我們會特別提出來，這是國格的問題，今天有人可以打我們的國人，你說他有，他的身分是什麼？","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:45:55.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:45:55.546000+08:00","text":"他是AIT正式的人員嗎？是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:45:55.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:46:45.198000+08:00","text":"你們如果要這樣，我們必須要追究他到底是什麼樣的身分背景，因為我們不是人家的殖民地，如果你要對等，那請把相關的資料提供給國人很清楚的知道，我們是怎麼樣對等，有很多我們都認為可能比較高額的資源或者什麼樣的一些條件，我們可以在雙邊獲得比較好的發展的情況之下，我們都同意，可是他們美國在臺協會的人員，我們不知道他是不是正式的在臺協會人員，如果你今天要在這裡講，你要把他講清楚，而且書面資料一定要提供。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:46:45.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:46:47.600000+08:00","text":"上一次，你明明說要提供書面資料，後來又變機敏，為什麼有機敏？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:46:47.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:47:01.047000+08:00","text":"我們的人員在國外，或者外國的駐外使節，還是相關的人員，他們必須受到我們重視的時候，這個有什麼機敏可言？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:47:01.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:47:12.812000+08:00","text":"所以在這裡，我想我們希望的平等互惠，還有國格，我們在處理這個事情的時候，我不知道你們怕什麼，你們只是發個文給他問他到底有或沒有。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:47:13.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:47:41.074000+08:00","text":"在1971年退出聯合國的時候，我們曾經經歷雪崩式的斷交，約旦在這個時候贈送他們外館的土地，我們目前使用的就是約旦送的，現在雙邊都還有一些國安人員及軍人，還有一些教育上面的交流持續在進行中，但是他們已經要停止這樣的交流，就是因為我們的處置，兩年了！","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:47:41.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:47:46.238000+08:00","text":"一個晚上，他們都可以把打人的帶走，而且還叫他不需要提告，這個部分，你們外交部做不到，那你們編錢到底要做什麼？","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:47:46.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:48:06.432000+08:00","text":"另外尼加拉瓜，我們的駐處是我們花錢買的，我們花人民的納稅錢，後來你們說時間來不及，本來說要提告，後來也沒有提告，我們用1元的價值捐給天主教會，可是後來白白的就送給中國了。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:48:06.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:48:09.353000+08:00","text":"這種你們連一句話都講不出來，人家送給我們外館，現在你還在用，可是你對待人家的方式是這樣！","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:48:09.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:48:09.914000+08:00","text":"部長，你的看法怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:48:09.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:48:48.117000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，委員所說的，外交一定基於對等跟互惠，我們如果有外交豁免，一定就是對等的，但是如果在執行上，因為具體的個案有沒有涉及哪個主管機關，我在第一時間知道之後，我想他們既然在臺灣設處，我站在外交部的角度來講，都是我們要去關心的，不能夠一下子什麼偵訊、約談。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:48:49.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:48:55.763000+08:00","text":"另外如果有一些影響到他們在臺灣公權力的執行，我們當然也馬上跟內政部……","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:48:56.383000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:48:59.984000+08:00","text":"部長，因為我們有給時間，我現在只是一個比較，你不管面對比較強的國家或比較弱的國家，或者跟我們關係並不是你們認為不那麼密切的國家，你都應該是對等，所謂的對等是我們的人被欺負了，你也不能幫他，我們拍拍屁股，我們自己自認倒楣，然後你對很多的國家……","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:48:59.984000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:49:00.984000+08:00","text":"我們是法治國家，應該要依法行政。","quality":0},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:49:00.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:49:00.184000+08:00","text":"那你應該處理啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:49:00.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:49:00.924000+08:00","text":"他查出來的身分如果不是，你就應該處理。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:49:23.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:49:23.889000+08:00","text":"對，因為這有涉及到內政部、警政署相關的單位，我們……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:49:23.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:50:19.249000+08:00","text":"部長，不要再說警政署或其他，那麼外交部就不需要這麼多經費，我已經強調三次了，我現在在說的是，我們雖然審過，可是當我們覺得你們不值得要這麼多經費的時候，你們外交部的預算跟過去相比真的增加很多，可是我們看到我們邦交國不斷地流失，甚至連這樣的處置都沒有辦法，聖露西亞到現在的網站上面還掛著我們幫他寫的那篇文章，我們派出去的一個詐騙、販毒的外交替代役幫他們警察上課的文章，到目前為止，我剛剛再詢問了一下，它還在聖露西亞的官網上，所以你們一直在說你們做了多少事，然後可以做什麼，有什麼樣的作為，我們不認為你們值得要這麼多的預算，這是我再一次強調，我們到現在還沒有看到這三個駐處……我們的石油其實跟這三個國家，就是跟亞洲的國家最多，對不對？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:50:19.249000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:50:20.249000+08:00","text":"委員，我提議啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:50:19.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:50:38.966000+08:00","text":"我來跟他們見個面，因為每次委員質詢，我就交辦，他們跟我的報告也都有接觸，也確實依照我們外交的關係在處理，我是覺得如果委員這麼關心，我來關懷一下。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:50:38.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:50:40.587000+08:00","text":"部長，我為什麼會特別舉美國的例子，我們不敢跟美國說什麼話，人家打我們，我們去把他帶走，又不能讓我們的人告他。","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:50:51.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:50:53.798000+08:00","text":"今天有另外一件事情，你卻處理了兩年都處理不好，這是什麼樣的外交對等？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:50:53.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:50:54.378000+08:00","text":"有處理中，我們有發函以外……","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:50:54.378000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:50:55.378000+08:00","text":"部長、部長……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:50:54.398000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:50:54.678000+08:00","text":"我本身也在備詢的時候有提到……","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:50:54.678000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:50:55.678000+08:00","text":"你如果要相信他們，你如果……聽我講完……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:50:54.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:50:54.959000+08:00","text":"那些有涉及違法我們就要查辦……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:51:07.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:51:11.612000+08:00","text":"聽我講完、聽我講完……所謂的查辦，到剛剛你有聽到查辦了什麼嗎？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:51:11.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:51:19.479000+08:00","text":"今天人家如果連發生直接的民事糾紛，甚至有毆打，他都可以把人帶走，我們現在不是說一定要……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:51:19.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:51:25.304000+08:00","text":"有啊，有發函啊，有、有、有所有的單位就是對這些沒有用……，沒有效力的章……","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:51:26.045000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:51:30.926000+08:00","text":"部長，我這裡有你們發函的內容，為什麼我會再問？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:51:30.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:51:45.389000+08:00","text":"就是因為你們沒有做、就是因為你們沒有做、就是因為你們沒有做，約旦已經要終止把人員送到我們臺灣的計畫，這個維持了四十幾年這樣子的計畫，他們要終止了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-01-02T10:51:45.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:51:49.150000+08:00","text":"部長你要正視，今天如果它真的終止，你們的預算應該全部砍掉，謝謝。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:51:52.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:51:58.733000+08:00","text":"投資……當然我們希望盡量招商，不過投資跟我們的政務還是……對，我們來努力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T10:51:59.233000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:52:02.375857+08:00","text":"謝謝馬文君委員，部長請回。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T10:52:02.675857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:52:07.247286+08:00","text":"待會徐巧芯委員質詢完畢後休息5分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T10:52:07.547286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:52:10.975857+08:00","text":"現在請陳冠廷委員上台質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}