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11:03:26","會議時間":"2025-01-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長報告「推動『二軌外交』與『元首外交』（含『繁榮南島智慧永續』出訪專案與友邦合作計畫）及近期外交出訪之成效」，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":0.38534375,"end":2.15721875,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":3.00096875,"end":3.8278437500000004,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":13.075343750000002,"end":14.070968750000002,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":14.762843750000002,"end":23.554718750000003,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":24.28034375,"end":24.516593750000002,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":24.70221875,"end":27.199718750000002,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":28.735343750000002,"end":29.27534375,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":29.680343750000002,"end":30.304718750000003,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":30.726593750000003,"end":31.300343750000003,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":31.70534375,"end":33.814718750000004,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":34.236593750000004,"end":34.48971875,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":34.877843750000004,"end":100.03221875000001,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":100.31909375000001,"end":101.87159375,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":101.87159375,"end":109.65096875,"speaker_score":0.906},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":109.85346875,"end":159.02721875,"speaker_score":0.906},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":159.11159375,"end":164.51159375,"speaker_score":0.906},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":164.54534375,"end":194.98784375000002,"speaker_score":0.906},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":186.24659375000002,"end":186.93846875,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":194.98784375000002,"end":195.00471875000002,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":195.08909375000002,"end":220.78971875000002,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":203.35784375,"end":203.76284375,"speaker_score":0.906},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":220.82346875000002,"end":233.66534375,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":235.70721875,"end":246.99659375000002,"speaker_score":0.906},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":246.99659375000002,"end":249.86534375000002,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":249.73034375,"end":253.93221875,"speaker_score":0.906},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":254.11784375000002,"end":258.89346875,"speaker_score":0.906},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":259.56846875,"end":261.30659375,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":261.67784375,"end":267.60096875,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":267.12846875,"end":273.77721875000003,"speaker_score":0.906},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":271.34721875,"end":275.98784375,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":275.98784375,"end":292.08659375,"speaker_score":0.906},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":276.47721875,"end":276.88221875,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":292.96409375,"end":295.02284375,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":295.02284375,"end":304.33784375000005,"speaker_score":0.906},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":304.72596875,"end":305.33346875,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":305.33346875,"end":323.45721875000004,"speaker_score":0.906},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":309.26534375,"end":312.99471875,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":323.45721875000004,"end":404.23784375,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":405.67221875,"end":440.24909375000004,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":440.60346875000005,"end":454.96409375,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":455.52096875,"end":474.74159375000005,"speaker_score":0.891},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":474.92721875,"end":476.56409375000004,"speaker_score":0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委員好那個今天我剛剛看部長接受訪問那有提到說訪美的這個訪團那基本上所有的成員都已經訂了嗎對 成員都訂了那這次是由團長是誰"},{"start":36.581,"end":49.147,"text":"韓國瑜院長這次率團我們整個國會的成員那是朝野都有 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這個是由韓院長率團那另外一個部分我們還是強調我看總統最近有提出來說希望能夠跟訪團的成員來去交友會晤那我在這邊真的是很樂見其成我們也希望說這一次的出訪或許是一個國會重新啟動那化解朝野僵局的新篇章那是我誠摯希望的所以這次的訪團不僅是對外我想對內團結都是一個很好的開始"},{"start":221.215,"end":233.425,"text":"說到訪團我看最近有聽到媒體在說國安會之前也有訪團去訪美是不是有兩位國安會副秘書長去訪美那不知道成果如何不知道有沒有跟外交部有一些交流"},{"start":236.328,"end":258.74,"text":"當然到美國我們的代表處也都會有協助他們也都會聯繫所以我們有一定的了解有一定的了解有沒有什麼成果可以跟我們民眾分享我想多出席交流互動我想對這個尤其在政府交接期間都是有幫助的"},{"start":259.86,"end":272.946,"text":"有什麼具體的成果嗎見到了誰談了什麼大概不必給我具體的名字但是有什麼樣的進展他們就盡可能去不管是就是去參加活動或者是貿易安全還是講安全還是講什麼樣的領域"},{"start":276.047,"end":288.664,"text":"因為這是比較不是一個正式的組團的活動他是以個別的方式去的那我們也都有了解 協助所以我就不帶為來說明不帶為說明 那國安會有誰監督"},{"start":293.181,"end":315.9,"text":"因為沒有辦法監督嘛 因為他不用來國會嘛報載嘛 媒體是有一些報導嘛那就是如同媒體報導有一些人有出席一些活動OK 好不過這不是正式的活動啦不是正式官方的活動那個都是一些拜會啦或出席有一些宴會啦我們用平常心啦"},{"start":316.58,"end":333.737,"text":"多交流 因為在這個關鍵時刻多一個互動就多一層關係非常好 我希望不是形式上的而是實質上面有一些有意義的對話那這些對話我們也希望說有橫向溝通不是只是留在國安會的辦公室裡面"},{"start":334.378,"end":360.26,"text":"那這樣子的經驗傳承或者是說資訊傳遞各個部會之間才會有意義必須要強調因為我們之前在對國安局也好或者是各個不同的部會質詢的時候我一直在強調這一個整體性不要說每一個部會有各自的這一些資訊然後都覺得很機敏然後不分享那覺得說我好像知道某些事情我了解的比較多那還有是個上下之分不要因為"},{"start":361.641,"end":382.7,"text":"外交是總體的嘛 因為部長也常講總體外交我也希望國安會把這些資訊都能夠第一時間讓我們外交部的這些部會的人員知道那以後投入的資源方向就會更加來去明確謝謝部長 部長我剛剛看到這一次給我們的專題報告裡面有講一些出訪的紀錄跟出訪的成果"},{"start":383.2,"end":400.366,"text":"那我不禁有點懷疑 奇怪 我們這個訪問的對象除了邦交國之外似乎偏重於歐洲 甚至是偏重於中東歐那我想說我們新南向政策我們的南向國家似乎比較沒有受到外交部的出訪喜愛 有這樣的情況嗎"},{"start":405.663,"end":427.151,"text":"我在這邊看到出訪成果裡面要嘛就是歐洲議會的這個或者是立陶宛波蘭捷克斯洛伐克等等或者是這個烏克蘭的經營烏克蘭雙邊關係我都認同就如同說我之前都認同價值外交但是現在部長講的是總體外交總體外交裡面部長又最重視的是經貿外交"},{"start":427.771,"end":454.614,"text":"我想請教一下捷克、斯洛伐克、立陶宛、波蘭對於我國的總體的外交、外貿裡面佔的百分比是多少那為什麼我們把所有的資源全部都放在中東歐那我很意外因為此時此刻東南亞國家對中國的好感度是不斷的增加對美國的好感度現在是在下降的狀況之下甚至說有相關的這個民調我們在左下角有這一個"},{"start":455.595,"end":476.29,"text":"這個Source資料來源他說你的國家如何應對台海衝突竟然是會支持中國的雖然是非常小部分但是還有微調微深大部分的都不願意來去做實質上面的來去協調台海之間的衝突也就是說在這樣的狀況之下我不懂外交部現在的重心是放在哪裡歐洲價值外交"},{"start":477.339,"end":497.408,"text":"還是已經就全面轉向總體外交了我跟委員報告除了我們的邦交國之外當然像美國它當然就是很開放嘛那歐洲的國家就看誰去比如蔡前總統有去那因為這些比較民主的國家大概我們的交流比較容易由部次長去啦你說在東南亞"},{"start":498.889,"end":517.796,"text":"我們當然有一些經貿性質的會議我們就不論嘛因為我們在談的是元首外交跟惡鬼外交那你說日本當然交流很頻繁以外包括菲律賓、澳洲、紐西蘭可是東協委員也知道你看像今年這個世界台商會在越南這個召開的時候我們的立委"},{"start":519.297,"end":545.254,"text":"連江啟臣副院長也被限制不能夠入境然後現在這一次是在馬來西亞開亞洲台商會同樣的也有一些限制所以說如果沒有限制我們是一定我們以外交部來講是一定主動積極來去交流另外至於智庫的外交有一些是公開有些不公開我想包括印度在內確實是也都很頻繁"},{"start":545.874,"end":562.346,"text":"因為說實在大家都很希望透過台灣也去了解這個兩岸之間的關係謝謝部長這樣我們就比較了解可能是沒有辦法因為畢竟他們還是對中國的關係他們的牽制比較深所以可能我們的這些高層出訪比較困難但是我還是要強調包含在國內"},{"start":566.249,"end":585.512,"text":"我們會晤這個各國駐台的代表或者是大使不管是有沒有邦交國關係我們辦公室都有在做統計就是在新聞上面出現的頻率我們下次把圖表拿給你看那我們從中可以大概看到包含總統府在內 國安會在內似乎都比較偏重於歐洲"},{"start":586.943,"end":613.533,"text":"我當然同意啦價值外交很重要但是就如同我對部長的期許現在已經是總和外交了包含經貿都很重要那我們台灣我們在東南亞國家之間的交流我們我國的台橋主要分布的區域還是以美跟東南亞為主美國為主那接下來就是東南亞各國所以我們不要把這個重心跟資源那全部都往一個區域來去放"},{"start":613.993,"end":632.648,"text":"我必須強調歐洲它的重要性是有的但是對於我國的經貿安全還有對台橋的影響力來講的話東南亞加上印度它是非常具有重要性的特別是印度我老實說在過去的一年多來我基本上主要的大國"},{"start":633.689,"end":655.049,"text":"有核子強權那這個可以牽制中國的主要力量我沒有發覺到有很大的這個助力在那邊甚至包含南韓也是我們韓國跟我國之間的關係過去還是有很長時間的邦交國那文化上面科技上面的交友都有我是真的希望說把視角放回亞洲謝謝大家好 謝謝我們會加強"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:52:29.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:52:30.450000+08:00","text":"麻煩主席，我們請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T10:52:30.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:52:30.790000+08:00","text":"請林部長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:52:30.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:52:30.810000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:52:30.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:52:30.970000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:52:31.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:52:32.772000+08:00","text":"今天我剛剛看部長接受訪問，有提到說訪美的訪團，基本上所有的成員都已經定了嘛？對。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:52:32.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:52:33.312000+08:00","text":"成員都定了，那這次是由……團長是誰？委員……","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:52:33.312000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:52:44.068333+08:00","text":"團長耶？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:52:44.068333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:52:54.824667+08:00","text":"團長是韓院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:52:54.824667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:53:05.581000+08:00","text":"韓院長，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:53:05.581000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:54:03.438000+08:00","text":"團長是韓國瑜院長，這次率團我們整個國會的成員是朝野都有、三黨都有，所以我這邊先一個期許，其實最近幾次訪美的一些行程，朝野立委訪美的時候都有一些風波出來，不論是說跟訪團成員之間的不愉快，或者是說跟駐美代表處之間一些溝通上面的問題，我在出訪之前，先跟外交部先談一下，希望這樣子的狀況不要出現，我也希望有這個機會，讓我們朝野的立委一致對外，所以這個部分包含行程上面，對智庫的訪問、對美國政要的訪問，我希望我們三黨都能夠有共識，原則上訪團內部有共識之後才會有一些新聞上面的釋出等等，只要有這樣子的基礎互信在的話，我相信這一次或許是一個朝野能夠在對內競爭、對外一致的一個新的篇章。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:54:03.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:54:05.378000+08:00","text":"所以目前安排的如何？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:54:05.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:54:08.619000+08:00","text":"有些智庫政要都已經開始在做好一些處理了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:54:09.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:54:10.547000+08:00","text":"對於本次訪團訪美的。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:54:11.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:54:44.624000+08:00","text":"都在積極進行中，主要當然就是出席美國總統就職典禮，這個部分因為經過立院黨團的協商，也有給我們外交部名單，除了總統請韓院長來率團，那這個團的成員大家也協商出來，民進黨、國民黨跟民眾黨是3、3、1位，就是總共是這樣子，加團長就是8位。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:54:45.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:55:34.843000+08:00","text":"我相信這個跨黨派的國會議員組成的代表團是很有代表性，待會兒要在這邊說明，這個是由行政部門再去協調來辦理，我們外交部會把這些行政作業做好，我們希望不要再有變更，因為本來是2、2、1位，後來立法院請我們去努力看看，能不能再加兩位，也真的是很辛苦，因為在美國總統就職典禮其實能夠出席的外賓很少，他們主要是以國內為主，在這種情況之下我們希望不要再有變動，因為這個來來往往的行政作業還有內外的溝通……所以這點也請大院能夠理解。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:55:34.843000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:55:35.843000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:55:35.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:55:40.506000+08:00","text":"就是由韓院長來率團，但並不是由立法院來組團。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:55:41.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:55:44.147000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長，這個是由韓院長率團。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:55:44.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:56:08.735000+08:00","text":"另外一個部分我們還是強調，我看總統最近提出希望能夠跟訪團的成員交流會晤，我在這邊真的是很樂見其成，我們也希望這一次的出訪或許是國會的重新啟動，化解朝野僵局的新篇章，那是我誠摯希望的，所以這次的訪團不僅是對外，我想對內團結都是一個很好的開始。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:56:10.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:56:16+08:00","text":"說到訪團，我最近有聽到媒體在說國安會之前也有訪團去訪美是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:56:16.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:56:22.405000+08:00","text":"有兩位國安會副秘書長去訪美，那不知道成果如何，不知道有沒有跟外交部有一些交流？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:56:25.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:56:35.593000+08:00","text":"當然到美國我們的代表處也都會有協助，他們也都會聯繫，所以我們有一定的了解。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:56:36.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:56:38.735000+08:00","text":"有一定的了解，有沒有什麼成果可以跟我們民眾分享？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:56:38.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:56:47.720000+08:00","text":"我想多出席交流互動，尤其在政府交接期間都是有幫助的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:56:48.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:56:50.901000+08:00","text":"有什麼具體的成果嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:56:50.901000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:56:51.541000+08:00","text":"見到了誰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:56:51.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:56:52.102000+08:00","text":"談了什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:56:53.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:56:55.723000+08:00","text":"不必給我具體的名字，但是有什麼樣的進展？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:56:56.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:57:00.785000+08:00","text":"他們就盡可能去，不管是去參加活動或者是……貿易？安全？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:57:00.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:57:01.926000+08:00","text":"是講貿易還是講安全，還是講什麼樣的領域？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:57:05.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:57:17.324000+08:00","text":"因為這比較不是一個正式的組團活動，是以個別的方式去的，我們也都有了解、協助，所以我就不代為說明。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:57:17.344000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:57:17.644000+08:00","text":"不代為說明，那國安會由誰監督？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:57:22.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:57:24.103000+08:00","text":"因為沒有辦法監督，因為他不用來國會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:57:25.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:57:33.170000+08:00","text":"報載，媒體是有一些報導，如同媒體報導，有一些人有出席一些活動。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:57:33.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:57:34.251000+08:00","text":"OK，好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:57:35.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:57:39.335000+08:00","text":"這不是正式的活動，不是正式官方的活動。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:57:39.335000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T10:57:40.335000+08:00","text":"沒關係，部長……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T10:57:39.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:57:52.447000+08:00","text":"那都是一些拜會或出席一些宴會，我們用平常心、多交流，因為在這個關鍵時刻，多一個互動就多一層關係。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:57:52.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:57:56.771000+08:00","text":"非常好，我希望不是形式上的，而是實質上面有一些有意義的對話。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:57:56.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:58:10.484000+08:00","text":"那這些對話，我們也希望說有橫向溝通，不是只是留在國安會的辦公室裡面，這樣的經驗傳承或是資訊傳遞在各個部會之間才會有意義。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:58:10.484000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:58:28.840000+08:00","text":"必須要強調，因為我們之前對國安局也好，或者是對各個不同的部會質詢的時候，我一直在強調整體性，不要每一個部會都有各自的資訊，都覺得很機敏，然後不分享，覺得自已好像知道某些事情、了解的比較多，還有上下之分，不要這樣。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:58:29.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:58:45.554000+08:00","text":"因為外交是總體的，部長也常講總體外交，我也希望國安會把這些資訊都能夠在第一時間讓外交部的部會人員知道，以後投入的資源方向就會更加明確，謝謝部長。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:58:45.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:58:54.341000+08:00","text":"部長，我剛剛看到您這一次給我們的專題報告裡面有講到一些出訪的紀錄跟出訪的成果，我不禁有點懷疑，奇怪！","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:58:54.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:59:09.206000+08:00","text":"我們訪問的對象除了邦交國之外，似乎偏重於歐洲，甚至是偏重於中東歐，那我想我們的新南向政策，南向國家似乎比較沒有受到外交部出訪的喜愛，是不是？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:59:09.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:59:09.366000+08:00","text":"有這樣的情況嗎？呃……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:59:14.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:59:44.918000+08:00","text":"我在這邊看到出訪成果裡面，要嘛就是歐洲議會，或者是立陶宛、波蘭、捷克、斯洛伐克等等，或者是這個烏克蘭的……經營烏克蘭雙邊關係，我都認同，就如同我之前都認同的價值外交，但是現在部長講的是總體外交，總體外交裡面部長又最重視的是經貿外交，我想請教一下捷克、斯洛伐克、立陶宛、波蘭對於我國總體的外交、外貿占的百分比是多少？","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:59:45.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T10:59:48.962000+08:00","text":"為什麼我們把所有的資源全部都放在中東歐？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T10:59:50.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:00:08.298000+08:00","text":"我很意外，因為此時此刻東南亞國家對中國的好感度是不斷的增加，對美國的好感度現在是在下降的狀況之下，甚至有相關的民調（在簡報左下角有資料來源）顯示，你的國家如何應對臺海衝突？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T11:00:10.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:00:19.466000+08:00","text":"會支持中國的雖然是非常小部分，但是竟然還有微調、微升，大部分的都不願意實質上去協調臺海之間的衝突。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T11:00:19.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:00:24.210000+08:00","text":"也就是說，在這樣的狀況之下，我不懂外交部現在的重心是放在哪裡，歐洲？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T11:00:24.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:00:25.270000+08:00","text":"價值外交？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T11:00:26.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:00:28.480000+08:00","text":"還是已經全面轉向總體外交了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:00:28.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:01:25.628000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，除了我們的邦交國之外，像美國當然就是很開放，而歐洲的國家就看誰去，比如蔡前總統有去，因為這些比較民主的國家，我們的交流大概比較容易由部、次長去，在東南亞我們當然也有一些經貿性質的會議，我們就不論，因為我們在談的是元首外交跟二軌外交，像日本當然交流很頻繁以外，包括菲律賓、澳洲、紐西蘭，東協的部分委員也知道，像今年世界臺商會在越南召開的時候，我們的立委、連江啟臣副院長也被限制不能夠入境，這一次是在馬來西亞開亞洲臺商會，同樣的也有一些限制，所以說如果沒有限制，以外交部來講，我們是一定主動積極去交流。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:01:26.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:01:39.858000+08:00","text":"另外，至於智庫的外交，有一些是公開，有些不公開，我想，包括印度在內，確實也都很頻繁，因為說實在大家也都很希望透過臺灣去了解兩岸之間的關係。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T11:01:39.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:01:50.486000+08:00","text":"謝謝部長，這樣我們就比較了解，可能是沒有辦法，畢竟他們跟中國的關係，還是對他們的牽制比較深，所以我們這些高層出訪可能比較困難。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T11:01:50.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:02:14.492000+08:00","text":"但是我還是要強調，包含在國內我們會晤各國駐臺的代表或者是大使，不管是有沒有邦交國關係，我們辦公室都有統計在新聞上面出現的頻率，我們下次把圖表拿給你看，我們從中大概可以看到，包含總統府在內、國安會在內，似乎都比較偏重於歐洲。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T11:02:15.943000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:02:22.565000+08:00","text":"我當然同意價值外交很重要，但是就如同我對部長的期許，現在已經是總合外交了，包含經貿都很重要。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T11:02:23.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:02:42.513000+08:00","text":"我們臺灣在東南亞國家之間的交流，我國的臺僑主要分布的區域還是以美跟東南亞為主，美國為主，接下來就是東南亞各國，所以我們不要把重心跟資源全部都往一個區域放。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-01-02T11:02:42.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:03:23.888000+08:00","text":"我必須強調，歐洲，他的重要性是有的，但是對於我國的經貿安全，還有對臺僑的影響力來講的話，東南亞加上印度，他是非常具有重要性的，特別是印度，我老實說，在過去的一年多來，基本上主要的大國、有核子強權、可以牽制中國的主要力量，我沒有發覺到有很大的助力在那邊，甚至包含南韓也是，韓國跟我國之間的關係，過去有很長的時間是邦交國，文化上面、科技上面的交流都有，我是真的希望把視角放回亞洲，謝謝大家。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:03:23.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:03:24.049000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝，我們會加強。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T11:03:24.549000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T11:03:27.691857+08:00","text":"謝謝陳冠廷委員，部長請回。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T11:03:27.991857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T11:03:31.706143+08:00","text":"接下來請徐巧芯委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}