{"error":false,"id":["158623"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":158623,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158623","日期":"2025-01-02","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-35-24","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":24,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-01-02T11:03:48+08:00","結束時間":"2025-01-02T11:14:59+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:11","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/186d177ad48e30e5283bc2f9461524fd5efe2b3915ec9263671cb7f8abfc27ff604f80897a2691b05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐巧芯","委員發言時間":"11:03:48 - 11:14:59","會議時間":"2025-01-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長報告「推動『二軌外交』與『元首外交』（含『繁榮南島智慧永續』出訪專案與友邦合作計畫）及近期外交出訪之成效」，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.06471875,"end":0.9422187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.40596875,"end":4.097843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.19409375,"end":108.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":9.68346875,"end":11.52284375,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":19.26846875,"end":19.85909375,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":108.82409375,"end":140.26221875000002,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.35346875,"end":124.11284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.61784375000002,"end":135.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.69721875000002,"end":139.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.36346875,"end":178.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":140.88659375,"end":144.19409375,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":178.45034375,"end":194.90346875,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.67284375,"end":185.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.00471875000002,"end":251.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":252.58221875,"end":260.20971875000004,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.61971875,"end":257.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.70784375,"end":287.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.08721875000003,"end":293.89221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.65159375,"end":301.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":294.82034375,"end":295.09034375000005,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":300.00096875,"end":303.39284375,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.53659375,"end":301.94159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.51534375,"end":399.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":400.84596875000005,"end":401.13284375,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.16159375,"end":409.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":409.33409375,"end":411.34221875000003,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.17346875000004,"end":413.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":411.35909375,"end":411.39284375000005,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.04221875,"end":448.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":415.78034375000004,"end":416.69159375000004,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":450.37409375000004,"end":452.26409375000003,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.85909375000006,"end":454.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":452.78721875,"end":454.17096875000004,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":454.79534375000003,"end":455.33534375000005,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.82909375,"end":455.40284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":455.60534375000003,"end":456.73596875000004,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.15784375000004,"end":489.40596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":457.19159375000004,"end":457.91721875,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":490.62096875000003,"end":513.38534375,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.52159375,"end":506.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.2378437500001,"end":514.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":513.5203437499999,"end":529.6359687500001,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.4734687499999,"end":516.9797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.2522187500001,"end":528.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.7922187500001,"end":535.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":529.73721875,"end":531.99846875,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":532.7240937500001,"end":547.70909375,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.57409375,"end":641.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":549.4978437500001,"end":554.89784375,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":563.47034375,"end":565.14096875,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":641.7197187500001,"end":648.72284375,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":648.7903437500001,"end":670.47471875,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":657.2278437500001,"end":657.3797187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":668.97284375,"end":669.3272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.90909375,"end":672.2297187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.009,"end":1.57,"text":"阿龍 林部長 要請部長部長好 新年快樂那我想呢 我們前一陣子啊 我們在外交國防委員會都在忙著審查預算那也很開心 就說大部分的預算呢 我們都已經審訊完畢了那也是有一個 不管是在野黨或是執政黨跟政府單位很好的一個溝通過程"},{"start":25.129,"end":34.816,"text":"但是尤其在審查國防部的預算的時候大多數的委員們不分黨派都有談到一件事就是我們的軍購美國還沒有發貨的狀況"},{"start":40.72,"end":63.207,"text":"那當時美國選舉大選出爐的時候您在11月7號的委員會備詢那我當時問了這個川普要求我們要均壽達GDP5到10%未來要如何因應你也提你也回復說呢我國採購的200億美軍軍購案的貨都還沒有給這方面美國也是理虧的那我國的需求是增加當中那未來要怎麼樣溝通"},{"start":64.247,"end":76.421,"text":"可是我們看到蔡英文前總統在歐洲國外的論壇裡面談到說烏克蘭比台灣更需要美國的武器烏克蘭戰勝就可以嚇阻中國先不論後半句話的對錯但是當烏克蘭比台灣"},{"start":79.304,"end":107.889,"text":"更需要美國的武器由國家的前元首向國外世界闡述這樣的方向的時候我們都知道台灣現在接貨武器的速度比較慢某種程度來說是因為美國在產線上面跟烏克蘭還有其他的一些國家出現了排擠那當我們的前元首公開的說烏克蘭比台灣還要需要的時候會不會影響到我們國家的一些武器那採購以後交付的速度以及外交部在這方面要如何跟美方溝通來因應"},{"start":108.888,"end":125.836,"text":"老公委員報告我們當然從台灣角度講台灣就是最重要而且很急迫那其實像在川普總統他現在任命的國安顧問這個麥克沃茲他就是先前那個Tiger就是那個老虎小組就是在加速"},{"start":126.676,"end":138.839,"text":"美台這些軍購之後的交付那我相信這個速度未來會加快因為我們也在努力做有案外包或是禁案外包因為有些項目如果台灣可以生產當然我們都鼓勵由台灣來生產我們都鼓勵來"},{"start":144.361,"end":159.67,"text":"台灣生產可是很多重要的武器確實沒有美方這裡的許可或是不是有美方因為我們已經前因投下去了嘛那現在討論的是武器延宕交付的問題那武器延宕的交付我再講一次很多時候是因為美方他們也公開承認了"},{"start":160.731,"end":177.281,"text":"就是說因為烏克蘭的產線問題他美國他也沒有那麼大的能量可以那麼快速的製作這麼多的武器然後來交付所以當蔡英文前總統講說烏克蘭比台灣還要需要的時候是不是就會造成未來更多的嚴當的問題那外交部這裡要如何跟美國來進行溝通"},{"start":178.502,"end":183.907,"text":"我們跟美國溝通就是我們非常需要而且就是希望能夠盡快的來交付這些已經採購的武器至於說未來的這個採購的項目我們也已經積極有在這個推動中"},{"start":195.246,"end":223.742,"text":"所以要特別提醒我覺得烏克蘭誰比誰更需要這件事情我們應該要站在台灣的角度來講對我來說沒有任何一個國家我能夠在國會殿堂上面講說別人比我們更需要既然我們採購了我們一定是最需要而且我們一定是希望對方能夠按時交付這是守在一個為人民去爭取守護納稅前的立法委員的想法我相信外交部長您也是從中華民國的角度看"},{"start":224.142,"end":250.289,"text":"要認為一定要認為台灣是最優先其他的國家當然我們都祝福他們一切安好但是既然我們購買了武器我們不希望延宕我們一定希望對方把台灣排在最優先的角度不想認同嗎同意那再來另外一個問題有關於台灣的獎助學金這個台灣Fellowship您知道這個獎助學金有多少年了是由誰來評估怎麼樣來評估的嗎"},{"start":252.625,"end":278.152,"text":"台灣這個fellowship你是台美那一歸台灣的獎助學金我們已經三十年都有了三十年了嘛對不對然後我們是由這個大使館跟代表處來受理申請確認資料評估申請人的學術影響力那有內部人士跟外部人士可是我要想要特別問一下部長您認不認識有一位叫做Carrie Garenchick的"},{"start":279.172,"end":293.098,"text":"學者他也有能拿到我們國家的這個台灣獎助學金的計畫而且呢已經連續拿了三次他的重要著作是什麼為什麼他能夠得到台灣的這個連三年的這個獎助"},{"start":294.973,"end":322.732,"text":"有人知道嗎?可以代替部長回答都沒有關係因為這個細節的問題我相信事務官有時候會更清楚叫做Kerry Jeffrieschick我給大家看一下他在2020年出版了一本書我們先翻譯這樣子我直接講他的英文叫做Political Warfare Strategies for Combating China's Plans to Win Without Fighting這個是由美國的海軍陸戰隊大學出版的"},{"start":323.112,"end":341.242,"text":"但是在第126頁裡面他傳遞了錯誤的內容我們姑且先不論大家的政黨傾向跟政治傾向但是呢他裡面提到說呢馬英九前總統因為洩漏機密資料違反中華民國通訊保護法被判有罪進一步玷污了他的遺產"},{"start":342.162,"end":361.005,"text":"这本书在2020年出版但是呢我国在2019年高院一审就宣判了马总统这个无罪定验并且不得再上诉的事实所以代表他的这本书里面有非常严重的瑕疵这跟政党立场无关这跟我国的司法体制有关"},{"start":361.545,"end":380.974,"text":"所以2019年就已經確定無罪不得再上訴定驗的內容卻出現在這個學者2020年的書裡面造謠那等於說呢美國海軍陸戰隊的大學生都看到了這個假訊息很多人會以為我們中華民國的前元首是被判決有罪的"},{"start":381.294,"end":398.019,"text":"好 等於說我們的前元首因為他的著作而被污蔑那結果呢 他在2018 2020和2025年分別拿了我們三次的獎助學金那如果他不是一個被認為很重要的學者怎麼會這樣子呢我想要問一下亞太司司長 北美司司長你們認識這個人嗎來八年內獲獎三次你們認識他嗎"},{"start":409.768,"end":411.156,"text":"我這邊沒有接觸過來 下一位"},{"start":414.301,"end":440.684,"text":"因為要不是亞太司就北美司我們這邊也沒有接觸也沒有接觸所以沒有人認識這個人但他八年內拿獎三次你們知道他機票加獎金他大概會領到台幣公帑市兩百多萬元然後他連我們最基本國內的法律他寫的都是錯的在國外去造謠我國中華民國的前元首我再說一次這跟政治傾向沒有關係如果他們污蔑了我們的前總統蔡英文我也會感到非常的不悅"},{"start":441.425,"end":466.887,"text":"再來呢這個獎助學金我請問一下他支領到的每一個月的補助金有多少錢詳細每個案子不一定一樣這一個這一個Carrie的這一個知道再告訴我啦每個月我講答案好了好不好一個月是六萬元六萬元一年就多少錢了三年就多少錢了再加上機票的來回補貼就多少錢了"},{"start":467.688,"end":470.571,"text":"所以我想要問一下就是說外交部這邊有沒有整理過從我們開始成立獎助金以來我們有沒有一個對單人個人補助的上限或者是次數的上限或是什麼樣一個審查標準或者是讓我們發現或有人檢舉說他的著作或他的學術產生問題的時候我們有沒有一個停下來的機制"},{"start":491.197,"end":513.087,"text":"那個委員一定有審查機制但是具體的個案尤其涉及出版如果有錯誤啦那當然我們事後知道了應該因為我們有講注嘛應該也要就是應該請其更新啦因為這個雖然我知道在學術界誰給我 grant 跟我自己出版不是兩件事情那我們還是遵守出版我們給他講決心有一個審查機制所以不是外交部誰說的"},{"start":519.069,"end":531.778,"text":"審查過給他補助他去做了研究後來出版出版這個是獨立的事情可是出版裡面如果有錯誤我們有補助而且因為他碰到的是我們外交的一個很大的問題就是說是中華民國的元首"},{"start":536.081,"end":562.613,"text":"出版但是2019有新的判決他沒有去更新嘛因為他建立在2018的資料上所以這個在時間上他有個時間差沒有但他就沒有去double check他寫的東西是否是正確的他沒有去更新最新的資料那再來就是說這是一個疏失啦這是一個很大的錯誤因為它涉及到中華民國元首的我們整個國家的顏面的問題而且它是一個假訊息一個假的資訊"},{"start":563.533,"end":591.546,"text":"那根據我們獎助金官網的指引說明就說呢鼓勵學者在台灣的大專中心設計這個研究中心但是有學者向我反映說實務操作上面外交部的獎助金申請制度的設計申請人受到錄取通知之後才要開始找台灣的接待單位所以有時候會因為找不到而求助於承辦的國土漢學中心那這個時候國土漢學中心會怎麼樣做建議就是學問了"},{"start":592.006,"end":605.799,"text":"所以我的意思是說我們在整個台灣獎助學金包含是我們的申請的限制次數然後呢金額然後不是說比如說這個人他可能每年都是他那是不是我們其他很優秀的學者他就申請不到了"},{"start":607.461,"end":629.977,"text":"有沒有相關的限制以及當它的學術架構或者是內容出現問題的時候我們能夠怎麼樣去跟對方來溝通還有我們要來做研究中心的時候有沒有多方面的管道能夠推薦而不是收到錄取之後才發現說我找不到地方可以在台灣去做研究這方面是不是可以請外交部事後再補題書面報告詳細的資料給我那你們也做一個整體的研究我們希望讓台灣的獎助金能夠越來越好"},{"start":636.181,"end":638.424,"text":"運用在有效的地方也不要造成國際社會對中華民國的錯誤認知"},{"start":641.772,"end":669.657,"text":"我會來請同仁檢視一下先前獎學金的這個審查那得到的人他的一個他的組成包括有人多次那另外就是有關於他得到之後要來做研究那他要有一個機構這個關係我們看怎麼樣能夠同時啊或者怎麼樣能夠來協助能夠找到他能夠能夠這是所謂affiliate跟他能夠合作的單位好 謝謝部長 謝謝"},{"start":671.963,"end":672.133,"text":"谢谢。"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:03:48+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T11:03:49+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我們有請林佳龍部長。","quality":0.231},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T11:03:48.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:03:48.109000+08:00","text":"有請部長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:03:48.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:03:48.269000+08:00","text":"部長好，新年快樂。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:03:48.269000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T11:03:49.269000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:03:48.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:04:41.324000+08:00","text":"前一陣子我們在外交及國防委員會都在忙著審查預算，也很開心大部分的預算我們都已經審查完畢了，不管是在野黨或是執政黨跟政府單位也是有一個很好的溝通過程，但是在審查國防部預算的時候，大多數的委員們不分黨派都有談到一件事，就是我們的軍購有美國還沒有發貨的這個狀況，當美國大選出爐的時候，您在11月7號的委員會備詢，我當時問了川普要求我們的軍售要達GDP的5%到10%，未來要如何因應。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:04:41.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:04:51.187000+08:00","text":"你也回復說，我國採購的200億美金軍購案的貨都還沒有給，這方面美國也是理虧的，我國的需求是增加當中，未來會這樣溝通。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:04:52.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:05:35.889000+08:00","text":"可是我們看到蔡英文前總統在歐洲國外的論壇裡面談到，烏克蘭比臺灣更需要美國的武器，烏克蘭戰勝就可以嚇阻中國，先不論後半句話的對錯，但是當烏克蘭比臺灣更需要美國的武器，由國家的前元首向國外、世界闡述這樣的方向的時候，我們都知道，臺灣現在接獲武器的速度比較慢，某種程度是因為美國在產線上面跟烏克蘭還有其他一些國家出現了排擠，當我們的前元首公開地說，烏克蘭比臺灣還需要的時候，會不會影響到我們國家一些武器採購以後交付的速度，以及外交部在這方面要如何跟美方溝通來因應？","quality":0.991},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:05:37.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:06:00.458000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們大概從臺灣的角度來看，臺灣就是最重要，而且很急迫，像在川普總統現在任命的國安顧問Mike Waltz，他先前領導的那個老虎小組就是在加速美臺這些軍購之後的交付，我相信這個速度未來會加快……","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:06:00.458000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T11:06:01.458000+08:00","text":"但是因為跟烏克蘭的產線……","quality":0.182},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:06:01.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:06:06.359000+08:00","text":"另外，我們也在努力做友岸外包或是近岸外包，如果有些項目臺灣可以生產……","quality":0.742},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:06:06.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:06:06.679000+08:00","text":"當然我們都鼓勵由臺灣來生產。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:06:06.679000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T11:06:07.679000+08:00","text":"這樣才能夠加速……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:06:06.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:06:17.824000+08:00","text":"我們都鼓勵來臺灣生產，可是很多重要的武器，確實沒有美方的許可，或是不是由美方……","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:06:18.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:06:35.415000+08:00","text":"因為我們錢已經投下去了，現在討論的是武器延宕交付的問題，我再講一次，武器延宕的交付很多時候是因為烏克蘭的產線問題，美方他們也公開承認了，因為美國也沒有那麼大的能量，可以那麼快速地製作這麼多的武器，然後來交付。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:06:35.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:06:43.060000+08:00","text":"所以當蔡英文前總統講說，烏克蘭比臺灣還需要的時候，是不是就會造成未來更多延宕的問題？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:06:43.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:06:45.261000+08:00","text":"那外交部要如何跟美國來進行溝通？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:06:46.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:06:51.887000+08:00","text":"我們跟美國溝通就是我們非常需要，而且希望能夠儘快交付這些已經採購的武器，至於未來採購的項目，我們也已經積極有在推動中。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:07:03.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:07:28.040000+08:00","text":"所以要特別提醒，我覺得和烏克蘭誰比誰更需要這件事情，我們應該要站在臺灣的角度來講，對我來說，沒有任何一個國家，我能夠在國會殿堂上面講說，別人比我們更需要，既然我們採購了，我們一定是最需要，而且我們一定是希望對方能夠按時交付，這是身為一個為人民守護納稅錢的立法委員的想法。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:07:28.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:07:47.026000+08:00","text":"我相信外交部長您也是從中華民國的角度看，一定要認為臺灣是最優先，其他的國家當然我們都祝福他們一切安好，但是既然我們購買了武器，我們不希望延宕，我們一定希望對方把臺灣排在最優先的角度，部長認同嗎？同意。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:07:48.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:07:58.289000+08:00","text":"再來另外一個問題，有關於臺灣的獎助學金──Taiwan Fellowship，您知道這個獎助學金有多少年了、是由誰來評估、怎麼樣來評估的嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:08:02.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:08:03.486000+08:00","text":"是臺美那一個嗎？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:08:03.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:08:04.886000+08:00","text":"臺灣的獎助學金。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:08:05.026000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:08:06.867000+08:00","text":"我們已經……30年都有了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:08:07.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:08:07.647000+08:00","text":"30年了嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:08:08.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:08:18.970000+08:00","text":"我們是由大使館跟代表處來受理申請，確認資料並評估申請人的學術影響力，由內部人士跟外部人士組成評估委員會。","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:08:19.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:08:27.432000+08:00","text":"可是我想要特別問一下，部長，您認不認識有一位叫做Kerry Gershaneck的學者？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:08:27.872000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:08:37.876000+08:00","text":"他也有拿到我們國家這個臺灣獎助學金的計畫，而且已經連續拿了3次，他的重要著作是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:08:37.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:08:41.078000+08:00","text":"為什麼他能夠連三年得到臺灣的這個獎助？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:08:42.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:08:44.114000+08:00","text":"有人知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:08:44.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:08:50.158000+08:00","text":"可以代替部長回答都沒有關係，因為這個細節的問題，我相信事務官有時候更清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:08:50.158000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T11:08:51.158000+08:00","text":"我們查一下，如果待會查到……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:08:50.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:09:29.242000+08:00","text":"叫做Kerry Gershaneck，我給大家看一下，他在2020年出版了一本書，英文名稱叫做「Political Warfare：Strategies for Combating China's Plan to \"Win without Fighting\"」，這個是由美國的海軍陸戰隊大學出版的，但是在第126頁裡面他傳遞了錯誤的內容，我們姑且先不論大家的政黨傾向跟政治傾向，但是他在裡面提到，馬英九前總統因為洩漏機密資料，違反中華民國通訊保障及監察法被判有罪，進一步玷污了他的遺產。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:09:30.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:10:11.875000+08:00","text":"這本書在2020年出版，但是我國在2019年高院更一審就宣判了馬總統無罪定讞並且不得再上訴的事實，所以代表他的這本書裡面有非常嚴重的瑕疵，這跟政黨立場無關，這跟我國的司法體制有關，所以2019年就已經確定無罪，不得再上訴定讞的內容，卻出現在這個學者2020年的書裡面造謠，等於說美國海軍陸戰隊的大學生都看到了這個假訊息，很多人會以為我們中華民國的前元首是被判決有罪的，等於說我們的前元首因為他的著作而被汙衊。","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:10:13.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:10:23.118000+08:00","text":"結果他在2018年、2020年和2025年分別拿了我們3次的獎助學金，如果他不是一個被認為很重要的學者，怎麼會這樣呢？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:10:23.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:10:25.699000+08:00","text":"我想問一下亞太司司長、北美司司長，你們認識這個人嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:10:25.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:10:26.019000+08:00","text":"8年內獲獎3次，你們認識他嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王司長良玉","start":"2025-01-02T11:10:37.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:10:38.693000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我這邊沒有接觸過。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:10:38.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:10:43.822000+08:00","text":"沒有接觸過，下一位，因為不是亞太司，就是北美司。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"藍司長夏禮","start":"2025-01-02T11:10:44.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:10:45.003000+08:00","text":"我們這邊也沒有接觸。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:10:45.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:11:01.658000+08:00","text":"也沒有接觸，所以沒有人認識這個人，但他8年內拿獎3次，他的機票加獎金大概會領到臺幣公帑兩百多萬元，但是他連我們最基本的國內法律所寫的都是錯的，還在國外去造謠我國中華民國的前元首。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:11:02.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:11:08.684000+08:00","text":"我再說一次，這跟政治傾向沒有關係，如果他們汙衊了我們的前總統蔡英文，我也會感到非常的不悅。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:11:09.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:11:18.953000+08:00","text":"再來，有關這個獎助學金，我請問一下，他每個月支領到的補助金有多少錢？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:11:18.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:11:19.914000+08:00","text":"每個案子不一定……","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:11:20.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:11:23.858000+08:00","text":"就這一個，Kerry的這一個。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:11:25.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:11:30.944000+08:00","text":"我講答案好了，一個月是6萬元，這樣一年就多少錢了？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:11:31.504000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:11:32.405000+08:00","text":"3年就多少錢了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:11:32.766000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:11:34.867000+08:00","text":"再加上機票的來回補貼，就多少錢了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:11:35.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:11:37.230000+08:00","text":"所以我想要請問外交部有沒有整理過，從我們開始成立獎助金以來，我們有沒有一個對單人、個人補助的上限，或者是次數的上限，或是什麼樣一個審查標準？","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:11:37.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:11:38.551000+08:00","text":"或者是當我們發現或有人檢舉他的著作或他的學術產生問題的時候，我們有沒有一個停下來的機制？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:11:59.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:12:20.426000+08:00","text":"委員，一定有審查機制，但是具體的個案，尤其是涉及出版，如果有錯誤，當然我們事後知道了，因為我們有獎助，應該也要請其更新，雖然我知道在學術界，誰給我grant跟我自己出版是兩件事情，但我們還是尊重出版……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:12:20.426000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T11:12:21.426000+08:00","text":"那我們在做審查的時候，因為他已經……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:12:20.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:12:35.635000+08:00","text":"我們給他獎學金有一個審查機制，所以不是外交部的誰說了算，但審查過給他grant或是補助，他去做了研究後來出版，出版這個是獨立的事情，可是出版裡面如果有錯誤，既然我們有補助，我們應該要告訴他這個資訊。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:12:36.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:12:39.758000+08:00","text":"而且因為他碰到的是我們外交的一個很大的問題，就是中華民國的元首。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:12:44.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:12:55.526000+08:00","text":"他那個是2020年出版的，但是2019年有新的判決，他沒有去更新，因為他建立在2018年的資料上，所以在時間上有一個時間差。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:12:55.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:12:58.567000+08:00","text":"沒有，他就沒有去double check他寫的東西是否正確。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:12:58.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:13:02.329000+08:00","text":"對，他沒有去更新最新的資料，這是一個疏失。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:13:02.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:13:10.613000+08:00","text":"這是一個很大的錯誤，因為他涉及到中華民國元首、我們整個國家顏面的問題，而且它是一個假訊息、一個假的資訊。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:13:10.613000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T11:13:11.713000+08:00","text":"他應該要更新啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:13:11.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:13:39.526000+08:00","text":"根據我們獎助金官網的指引說明，只有說鼓勵學者在臺灣的大專中心設置研究中心，但是有學者向我反映，在實務操作上面，礙於外交部的獎助金申請制度的設計，申請人收到錄取通知之後才能開始找臺灣的接待單位，所以有時候會因為找不到而求助於承辦的國圖漢學中心，這時候國圖漢學中心怎麼做建議就是學問了。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:13:40.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:13:53.779000+08:00","text":"所以我的意思是，整個臺灣獎助學金包含我們申請的限制、次數、金額，比如說可能每年都是這個人，是不是其他很優秀的學者就申請不到了？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:13:55.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:14:03.146000+08:00","text":"所以有沒有相關的限制，以及當他的學術架構或者是內容出現問題的時候，我們能夠怎麼樣去跟對方溝通？","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:14:03.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:14:09.331000+08:00","text":"還有我們要做研究中心的時候，有沒有多方面的管道能夠推薦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:14:09.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:14:14.194000+08:00","text":"而不是收到錄取之後才發現，我找不到地方可以在臺灣去做研究。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:14:14.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:14:16.956000+08:00","text":"這方面是不是可以請外交部事後再補提書面報告、詳細的資料給我？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:14:17.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:14:26.404000+08:00","text":"你們也做一個整體的研究，我們希望讓臺灣的獎助金能夠越來越好，運用在有效的地方，也不要造成國際社會對中華民國的錯誤認知。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:14:29.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:14:39.234000+08:00","text":"我會請同仁檢視一下先前獎學金的審查及得到的人的組成，包括有人多次。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:14:40.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:14:57.357000+08:00","text":"另外，有關於他得到之後要來做研究，他要有一個機構，這個關係，我們看怎麼樣能夠同時或者怎麼樣能夠來協助他找到所謂affiliate，就是能夠跟他合作的單位。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2025-01-02T11:14:57.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:14:57.657000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T11:14:58.157000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T11:15:01.299857+08:00","text":"謝謝徐巧芯委員，謝謝部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T11:15:01.599857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T11:15:03.599857+08:00","text":"暫時先休息5分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T11:15:03.899857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T11:15:05.042714+08:00","text":"休息（11時15分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T11:15:05.342714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T11:15:07.057000+08:00","text":"繼續開會（11時22分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T11:15:07.357000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T11:15:09.071286+08:00","text":"我們繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T11:15:09.371286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T11:15:12.228429+08:00","text":"請羅智強委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}