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因為我們有協助他申辦這個案子事實上5月份 該林姓替代一男在紐約被逮捕後 外交部曾經發稿證實林姓男子他是2023年是國和會派駐聖路西亞的外交替代一男 沒錯吧原來是預計在2024年7月退役"},{"start":52.466,"end":60.401,"text":"那我要跟部長說我覺得這件事對我們的國際形象還有替代藝尤其是外派的這個部分"},{"start":61.209,"end":87.16,"text":"的制度也造成很多的一些衝擊那這件事情的事後處理我覺得還是有很多的疑點所以在這邊我希望外交部能夠積極的回應跟澄清社會的疑慮那我首先想要問一下說林姓替代義男在我友邦聖路西亞服役他是協助擔任警察部門的網路犯罪防制相關工作對不對"},{"start":88.503,"end":98.095,"text":"對 網路方面的治安那目前我們跟深入西亞政府通報那相關黎姓男子開課的課程資料下架了嗎還沒有對不對"},{"start":100.888,"end":123.356,"text":"已經下架了嗎我們的下架了 已經有智慧深入西亞那我們再來溝通啦因為我們單方面下架但是他那邊如果還掛著我們來協調一下加快我覺得事後的補救工作外交部還是要就是再上心一點因為坦白講蠻難看的啦 沒錯吧 部長"},{"start":124.536,"end":142.784,"text":"掛在那邊當然不好看所以要先確認是不是能夠把後續的事情處理完那我就要想請教一下市長從公開資訊來看早在2020年10月在暗網上創建他就創建了名為匿名市場的在線商務平台"},{"start":143.504,"end":171.804,"text":"那調查人員發現在匿名市場上他出售的包括海洛因、可卡因、搖頭丸還有冰毒還有許許多多一些包括普通的致幻劑以及已經在美國形成公害的芬太尼那麼我要問就是說美國的司法機構在機場將他逮捕也就是說他已經掌握他的行蹤那外交部在這件事情上是有沒有提前知道相關的訊息還是等到人被抓了才接獲通報"},{"start":173.21,"end":196.96,"text":"應該說到了紐約之後就是有會我們意見我們駐外的我們的警政秘書就第一時間就掌握而且協助他辦理因為剛好5月19號這剛好在520這個新政府就職前後所以我上任之後我就就是有要求這個事情就是配合辦理以外我們也要針對這個事情能夠來查明"},{"start":200.361,"end":227.33,"text":"我要問部長的重點就在於說這案子在這個所謂的我們講這案子美國司法部就是逮捕人以及在所爭案的過程當中我們的政府包括外交部以及包括我們警政部門他是事前就已經掌握他的犯罪然後跟美國做相當程度的執法應該是沒有說在聖路西亞掌握沒有沒有嗎是他到了紐約之後美方在查是所以有匯我們意見我們那時候才知道"},{"start":227.91,"end":241.381,"text":"所以我覺得恐怕內控部分也要再注意一下這是變成是美國掌握到發現那事實上人是在抱歉在國和會在我們聖路西亞對不對反正其實外交部就有一點督導上的責任的問題不是嗎"},{"start":243.738,"end":262.725,"text":"他的工作性質不是直接跟這個有關 但是因為人嘛 我想他的犯罪行為我們當然一方面是當事人他接受司法調查啦他是替代義男嘛 再透過國和會派聖路西洋嘛 對不對那所以換言之外交部這件事我覺得還是有督導責任啦 不是嗎"},{"start":263.911,"end":286.238,"text":"所以外管就是整體責任就是一定都有的因為人在外管雖然是國盤會是另外有沒有釐清一下就是說透過他的逮捕跟犯罪事實他在服役期間有沒有涉及相關的機敏諮詢或者用他的職位來進行不當的交易就是外交的資源跟活動對他這個所謂犯罪行為"},{"start":286.898,"end":313.341,"text":"的影響是什麼有沒有他利用外交的這個所謂的資源來去稅刑他的一個犯罪的一個行動呢有沒有查過 依照人員的這個就是還有報告機密等級應該是沒有啦但是他會被稅有期制度這當然也都事後應該要來釐清那因為我們跟邦交國我們的國會其實一些替代藝人雖然只是一個年輕的人可對他們政府的幫助也是很大"},{"start":314.422,"end":337.08,"text":"我不否認替代役制度的幫助但是這是我下一個要問的問題事實上我覺得今天會有這樣的一個所謂的不法之徒那以替代役的制度變成是到邦交國這邊就反而是妨礙跟所謂傷害我們的外交的所謂的信譽跟尊嚴的時候我想要請教我們的這個替代役男在外邦"},{"start":337.78,"end":348.838,"text":"外交友邦服役的管理機制目前外交部檢討是什麼我們怎麼樣去避免未來發生的事情以及對於所謂的替代藝男的篩選的過程我們的查核機制是什麼"},{"start":349.338,"end":369.077,"text":"其實因為TID是屬於內政部警政署那他們身過一個審查的過程他符合資格然後我們外交部用外管所以就在這個前半段是內政部但是我們當然也會希望他們能夠嚴格因為畢竟派外代表國家不管是外交部或國和會"},{"start":370.993,"end":397.96,"text":"這個審查機制這個就是選擇了這個替代役的這個部分我們跟內政部我想就發生這個個案那以後在這個這個替代役男的這個派外上面希望能夠就是注意這個他的本身的有沒有犯罪行為或是上網路上因為有時候有些人看起來沒什麼前科但是這個他也許在某一些"},{"start":399.301,"end":425.402,"text":"網路或跨境的犯罪上是有這種嫌疑或者是這種狀況那當然是應該要更審慎那在麻煩部裡面針對我剛剛提的幾個問題就是說這件事事後的善後的處理狀況如何以及他對他的身份在外交部裡面他有沒有涉及要釐清一下他有沒有單用他的外交在外交部的身份來做他犯罪的一個行動的掩護"},{"start":426.062,"end":440.922,"text":"那第三個就是替代藝男跟內政部協商一下外交說真的人派到國外去發生這種事情真的是我們國家蠻丟臉的啦所以這種事情應該把這個個案變成是一個檢討的案例不要讓以後再發生這種類似的問題"},{"start":442.324,"end":457.905,"text":"對 我們藉由這個個案來徹底的檢討這些替代異難選擇跟外派還有他在當地服務有沒有涉及機密或者是這些跟我們外交工作有衝突的地方好 謝謝部長 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:22:26.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:22:28.250000+08:00","text":"有請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T11:22:28.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:22:33.053000+08:00","text":"請林部長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:22:33.053000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T11:22:34.053000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:22:33.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:22:33.894000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:22:35.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:22:48.643000+08:00","text":"兩週前、12月16日，前替代役男林姓男子在美國紐約因經營毒品交易平臺被逮捕而且向美國法院認罪的案件，這件事情部長知道嗎？知道。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:22:50.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:22:52.045000+08:00","text":"請問外交部在多久之後掌握到這個事情？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:22:53.548000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:22:57.431000+08:00","text":"應該是第一時間，因為我們有協助他偵辦這個案子。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:22:57.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:23:06.958000+08:00","text":"事實上5月份該林姓替代役男在紐約被逮捕後，外交部曾經發稿證實，對不對？對。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:23:06.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:23:13.683000+08:00","text":"林姓男子是2023年國合會派駐聖露西亞的外交替代役男，沒錯吧？是。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:23:14.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:23:15.544000+08:00","text":"原來是預計在2024年7月退役。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:23:18.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:23:40.254000+08:00","text":"我要跟部長說，我覺得這件事對我們的國際形象還有替代役，尤其是外派的制度也造成一些衝擊，這件事情的事後處理，我覺得還是有很多的疑點，所以我希望外交部能夠積極的回應跟澄清社會的疑慮。好。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:23:40.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:23:53.160000+08:00","text":"我首先想要問一下，林姓替代役男在我國友邦聖露西亞服役，他是協助擔任警察部門的網路犯罪防治相關工作，對不對？","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:23:54.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:23:56.105000+08:00","text":"對，網路方面的資安。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:23:57.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:24:08.309000+08:00","text":"目前我們跟聖露西亞政府通報，林姓男子相關開課的課程資料下架了嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:24:08.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:24:19.612000+08:00","text":"我們的下架了，已經有知會聖露西亞，我們再來溝通，因為我們單方面下架，但是他那邊如果還是掛著，我們來協調一下讓它加快。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:24:20.493000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:24:28.756000+08:00","text":"我覺得這事後的補救工作，外交部還是要再上心一點，因為坦白講是滿難看的啦！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:24:28.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:24:29.076000+08:00","text":"部長，沒錯吧？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:24:30.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:24:31.457000+08:00","text":"對，掛在那邊當然不好看。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:24:31.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:24:36.339000+08:00","text":"所以要先確認是不是能夠把後續的事情處理完。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:24:37.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:25:03.254000+08:00","text":"我就想請教，事實上從公開資訊來看，早在2020年10月，他就暗網上創建了名為「匿名市場」的在線商務平臺，調查人員發現，在匿名市場上，他出售的包括海洛因、可卡因、搖頭丸、冰毒，還有許許多多一些，包括普通的致幻劑以及已經在美國形成公害的芬太尼。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:25:04.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:25:17.804000+08:00","text":"我要問的就是，美國的司法機構在機場將他逮捕，也就是說，他們已經掌握到他的行蹤，外交部在這件事情上有沒有提前知道相關的訊息，還是等到人被抓了才接獲通報？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:25:19.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:25:42.940000+08:00","text":"應該說到了紐約之後有會我們的意見，我們駐外的警政秘書第一時間就掌握而且協助他辦理，因為5月19日剛好在520新政府就職前後，所以我上任之後，我除了要求這個事情要配合辦理以外，也要針對這個事情來查明。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:25:46.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:26:05.067000+08:00","text":"我要問部長的重點就在於，這個案子美國司法部逮捕人以及在偵案的過程當中，我們的政府，包括外交部以及警政部門，是事前就已經掌握他的犯罪，然後跟美國做相當程度的……","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:26:05.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:26:13.310000+08:00","text":"應該沒有在聖露西亞掌握，沒有，是他到了紐約之後，美方在查的時候有會我們的意見，我們是那時候才知道。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:26:13.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:26:24.619000+08:00","text":"所以我覺得恐怕內控部分也要再注意一下，因為這個變成是美國掌握到發現的，但事實上人是在國合會、在聖露西亞，對不對？","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:26:25.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:26:27.381000+08:00","text":"這樣外交部就有一點督導上的責任問題，不是嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:26:29.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:26:38.821000+08:00","text":"他的工作性質不是直接跟這個有關，但是因為人，他的犯罪行為……當然一方面是當事人接受司法調查……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:26:39.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:26:44.463000+08:00","text":"他是替代役男，然後透過國合會派駐聖露西亞嘛，對不對？","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:26:44.943000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:26:48.725000+08:00","text":"換言之，我覺得外交部對這件事還是有督導責任，不是嗎？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:26:50.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:26:56.833000+08:00","text":"外館就是整體責任一定都有的，因為人在外館嘛，雖然國合會是另外一個法人……","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:26:57.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:27:08.617000+08:00","text":"另外，有沒有釐清一下，就是透過他的逮捕跟犯罪事實，他在服役期間有沒有涉及相關的機敏資訊，或是用他的職位來進行不當的交易？","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:27:08.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:27:13.959000+08:00","text":"就是外交的資源跟活動對他這個犯罪行為的影響是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:27:13.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:27:20.004000+08:00","text":"有沒有他利用外交的資源去遂行他犯罪的行動呢？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:27:20.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:27:20.805000+08:00","text":"有沒有查過？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:27:20.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:27:39.321000+08:00","text":"依照人員的……還有包括機密等級，應該是沒有，但是他會不會有機會接觸到，這當然事後也都應該要來釐清，因為我們跟邦交國……我們的國合會一些替代役男雖然只是年輕人，可是對他們政府的幫助也是很大。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:27:40.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:28:07.446000+08:00","text":"我不否認替代役制度的幫助，但這是我下一個要問的問題，也就是說，事實上我覺得今天會有這樣的不法之徒，派替代役到邦交國這邊，結果反而是妨礙跟傷害我們外交的信譽跟尊嚴，我想要請教，我們的替代役男在外交友邦服役的管理機制，目前外交部的檢討是什麼？","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:28:07.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:28:14.838000+08:00","text":"你們怎麼樣去避免未來再度發生事情，以及對於所謂的替代役男篩選過程，你們的查核機制是什麼？","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:28:15.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:28:24.087000+08:00","text":"其實因為這個替代役男是屬於內政部警政署，他們經過審查認為符合資格，然後我們外交部因為外館嘛……","quality":0.698},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:28:24.087000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T11:28:25.088000+08:00","text":"我覺得外交部要跟內政部抗議啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:28:25.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:29:13.827000+08:00","text":"所以這個前半段是內政部，但是我們當然也會希望他們能夠嚴格啦，因為畢竟派外又代表國家，不管是外交部或國合會，這個審查機制，選擇替代役的這個部分，我們會跟內政部討論，我想發生了這個個案，以後在替代役男的派外上面，希望能夠注意他本身有沒有犯罪行為或是在網路上，因為有時候有些人看起來沒什麼前科，但是他也許在某一些網路或跨境的犯罪上是有這種嫌疑，或者是有這種狀況，那當然是應該要更審慎。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:29:14.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:29:19.792000+08:00","text":"再麻煩部裡面針對我剛剛提的幾個問題，就是這件事事後善後的處理狀況如何。好。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:29:20.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:29:31.402000+08:00","text":"以及對於他的身分在外交部裡面，他有沒有涉及……要釐清一下他有沒有濫用外交部的身分來做他犯罪行動的掩護。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:29:32.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:29:45.219000+08:00","text":"第三個就是替代役男的這個部分跟內政部協商一下，在外交上，說真的人派到國外去，發生這種事情，真的是讓我們國家滿丟臉的，所以應該把這個個案變成一個檢討的案例。好。","quality":0.847},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:29:45.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:29:46.922000+08:00","text":"不要讓外交工作以後再發生這種類似的問題，以上。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-01-02T11:29:48.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:30:03.084000+08:00","text":"對，我們會藉著這個個案來澈底地檢討這些替代役男的選擇跟外派，還有他在當地服務有沒有涉及機密或者是跟我們外交工作有衝突的地方。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-01-02T11:30:03.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:30:03.905000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T11:30:04.405000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T11:30:07.547857+08:00","text":"謝謝羅智強委員，部長請回。","quality":0.182},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T11:30:07.847857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T11:30:11.562143+08:00","text":"張啓楷，張啓楷，張啓楷委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T11:30:11.862143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T11:30:16.147857+08:00","text":"接下來我們請葉元之委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}