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11:54:32","會議時間":"2025-01-02T11:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分，關於財政部主管臺灣土地銀行股份有限公司、財政部印刷廠、臺灣菸酒股份有限公司。（詢答及處理）\r\n【預算提案截止時間：113年12月30日(一)下午5時】\r\n【113年12月30日及114年1月2日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.4697187500000001,"end":6.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.14409375,"end":5.177843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.19471875,"end":5.262218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11.489093750000002,"end":25.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":25.242218750000003,"end":35.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":35.65409375,"end":42.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":42.353468750000005,"end":55.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":55.92096875,"end":65.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":65.72534375000001,"end":66.94034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":67.22721875,"end":76.44096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":76.76159375,"end":77.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":77.33534375,"end":80.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":81.25034375,"end":84.91221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.87409375,"end":114.59534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":86.17784375000001,"end":86.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.17221875,"end":95.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":112.90784375000001,"end":116.29971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.72596875,"end":128.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.90596875000001,"end":124.92284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":124.92284375000001,"end":127.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":128.95596875,"end":141.05534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":132.61784375000002,"end":135.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.89159375,"end":137.27534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.32971875,"end":147.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":145.56096875,"end":145.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":146.38784375,"end":148.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.96971875,"end":149.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":149.03721875000002,"end":150.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.74596875,"end":164.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":162.08159375,"end":172.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.88659375,"end":169.72596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.53596875000002,"end":171.39659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.24034375000002,"end":198.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":196.25346875000002,"end":206.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.56096875,"end":199.76346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":206.96909375,"end":216.89159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":215.01846875,"end":215.33909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":216.30096875,"end":271.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.04346875000002,"end":217.36409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.05159375,"end":300.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.76784375,"end":280.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":297.68909375000004,"end":319.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.11471875,"end":301.51971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":318.36096875000004,"end":336.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":337.73346875000004,"end":340.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":337.90221875000003,"end":375.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.66409375,"end":389.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":378.75659375000004,"end":380.27534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":380.64659375,"end":381.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":389.60721875,"end":395.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":389.79284375000003,"end":389.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":392.39159375,"end":392.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":395.85096875000005,"end":400.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":401.72346875000005,"end":410.61659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":407.78159375,"end":408.60846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":409.30034375,"end":411.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":411.83159375,"end":411.84846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":411.84846875000005,"end":412.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":411.88221875000005,"end":419.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":416.86034375,"end":417.24846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":419.03721875,"end":419.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.49284375,"end":420.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":419.50971875000005,"end":419.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":420.01596875,"end":420.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":420.72471875,"end":421.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":420.74159375000005,"end":422.91846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":422.47971875,"end":425.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":425.46659375,"end":428.13284375},{"speak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那個有請財政部那個財政部部長莊部長"},{"start":13.418,"end":34.516,"text":"今天跟您討論有關有償PVP的一個進度那在就是上個月行政院已經宣布就是兆元投資國家的一個發展的方向其實他在這裡頭這個三大策略的主軸裡頭他特別有提到了就是這排序在第一就是創新出山"},{"start":35.717,"end":55.12,"text":"那個推進的一個機制那就是我今天要跟你提到的這個有償PVP這個當然是希望就是說加強把民間的這個資金引進來到那個公建裡頭那事實上這個政策跟財政部有相當大的一個關係那我也知道就是說"},{"start":56.121,"end":84.66,"text":"部長你在這個2022年12月修正的一個部分條文齁這個促參法裡頭叫做那個促參2.0促參2.0所以就是重點之一就是說新增的第九條之一政府有常提到公共的一個服務我們就叫它有常PVP那今天要跟部長討論的就是說財政部有沒有新的法制在進行中"},{"start":86.476,"end":115.245,"text":"謝謝委員對於初參2.0在這個修法通過以後所有的相關的法制作業基本上財政部都已經完備了就是執法規都完備了那至於有償取得公共服務就是有償PPP的部分那因為法條裡面規定必須有急迫性、必要性以及等等正確性等等而且民間經營根據效益這種情況下我們也開始做了相關政策性的評估那目前包含只有評估而已嗎你有沒有有亮點的專案"},{"start":116.065,"end":132.95,"text":"第一個就是政策評估完成表示這幾類的公共建設可以去走有償PPP這個要先建置建置完以後目的事業主管機關就可以用這樣的一個種類可以那現在已經有在推動了推動那就是不是只有條文上的一個設施"},{"start":134.71,"end":161.71,"text":"有案子在推動對有案子在推動那最有亮點的案子你認為最滿意的案子是哪個我跟委員報告最有亮點的就是譬如說污水下水道的處理污水下水道處理就是可是這個污水下水道的一個處理已經推了好幾年了已經推了好幾年應該要更擴大我們認為可以更擴大譬如說污水下水道處理以後它可以進入水廠不是只有做污水下水道的進化接下來水還可以進一步做成為再生水"},{"start":162.33,"end":184.486,"text":"所以你說再生水廠 再生水廠也可以用就是促餐那個有償的PVP來把這個錢引進來然後做這麼大的一個水廠讓水資源不要被浪費掉那另外也跟委員報告就是您剛剛的一個創新的一個促餐機制將來財政部會在2014今年就會成立一個促餐專案辦公室我們接受這個"},{"start":185.487,"end":211.905,"text":"各個目的各個機關他要推動重大的公建計畫的話要先送到專案辦公室來評估如果適合做促餐就以促餐的模式來做所以這個速度會更快會速度會更快然後讓各個機關朝這個就是說民間的這一些遊資還是說有一些比較大的一個公設那就是公共的一個建設可以引進更多的一個資金對 引進更多的民間資金那另外同時也可以接受民間主動提案他認為說他認為這個公建民間有興趣來做"},{"start":215.507,"end":244.236,"text":"他也可以主動提案那再跟你探討就是租賃公司的換貸這個穿透式的一個管理其實我們知道就是說12月中旬就是中租他發布了一個重大的信息他的董事會已經跟兆豐銀行簽訂了65億的一個連貸案那當然就是說銀行可以就是確保就是貸款不會流向汽車貸款還是先買後戶跟不動產的一個融資那在這裡我想請問部長就是說"},{"start":245.416,"end":271.378,"text":"有沒有辦法就是如何讓經檢來確保銀行沒有違規才能正正的避免掉就是銀行繞了繞道把這些錢借給租賃公司借給房地產那有沒有辦法是用信託基金就是說我們這些錢放到信託基金每一筆錢就是說租賃公司他要用的時候我們都可以清清楚楚看得到他是不是守法合法嗎"},{"start":273.566,"end":298.651,"text":"謝謝委員我想這個有關租賃公司的這個貸放的部分要非常注意也就是大家都很關注那金管會在113年的12月的時候他已經提出了四道防線第一個對各銀行融資給融資租賃業的話第一個要追蹤資金的流向第二個融資的用途如果是不動產的話他也要遵守央行對於不動產貸款的一些規定而且要記錄這個總量管制這個本席知道"},{"start":301.432,"end":316.933,"text":"所以就是說你跟金管會其實你是有研擬出一套的一個方式你們兩兆有研擬出一套的方式就是絕對可以去管制這些錢這些錢可以真正的落實就是說不會讓資源公司挪去他用嗎"},{"start":317.974,"end":336.202,"text":"對我想這個金管會他做出了防線那各機關各個公股銀行都必須要遵守各銀行不管是公股或是民營都要遵守那財政部基於公股銀行的股權管理也會要求我們的公股銀行一定要遵守金管會的規定以及央行的規定要遵守這樣的一個規範"},{"start":338.099,"end":353.3,"text":"我們也會跟金管會合作如果這個央行第七波的一個信用管制再加上金管會祭出的金融檢查使得國家銀行的一個房貸開始是"},{"start":354.5,"end":374.928,"text":"然後灰清安跟灰公交人員優惠的一個黃帶的這個樓地板率我們已經降到2.5%起跳那所以我現在要請教你國土署署長他說不會再延長那事實上新清安在明年7月就截止的那財政部你的看法是會不會延長"},{"start":377.181,"end":400.359,"text":"當時在新清安推出的時候是三年喔所以說這個到明年七月就截止了喔對 明年的我們好像是七月底部長會不會再延長這個新清安的政策還是說如果不延長的話是不是有新的清安政策會再持續推呢"},{"start":402.175,"end":430.288,"text":"這個新清安我想做出來以後讓一些需要購買次住房屋用的青年朋友們他可以買到到底會不會延長新清安會不會延長我想這個部分要到那個明年的時候我們再來做一些檢討要到明年明年的七八月在整個結束以後再做檢討那顯然就是不會延長了可能會在結束之前就可以先做檢討是結束之前對結束之前就可以先做檢討是他的前三個月"},{"start":431.289,"end":436.614,"text":"可以,前三個月可以研討,我們可以看當時的一些狀況來做討論好,謝謝部長,接著我請我們土地銀行董事長"},{"start":448.985,"end":466.969,"text":"這個2024年上半年土銀的換款表現不佳就是你錢借出去的不多尤其我們用公股銀行對中小企業的換款那個顏額就是說在去年的9月跟10月來做一個比較你借出去的錢是最少的"},{"start":467.93,"end":482.205,"text":"在九月份你借出去276億這個非常少啊那是因為土銀就是在這個整個就是業績的一個換款上頭你就是緊縮還是說你面臨到什麼樣的一個困境"},{"start":484.11,"end":500.456,"text":"你不借錢給大家 為什麼各位原報告一下是因為我們土地銀行在113年上半年以後是因為我們配合的政務政策我們對土建農的部分我們開始的進行適度的管控"},{"start":501.796,"end":516.971,"text":"所以你在未來你的業績會越來越差但是我們下半年的話我們是由清安貸款來補足我們清安貸款目前到現在來做1300多億也就是說今年光是一年增加清安貸款就增加了1000億"},{"start":518.112,"end":545.533,"text":"可是你那個大額的都放掉啦你這個新青安是這個小眾啊因為新青安是一個政策性的放款土地銀行是要補助貸款人那土建融雖然是利潤比較好但是適度的調節這個結構對銀行來講也比較有利所以我們其實是我們土建融的貸款減少了大概200多億青安增加了大概1000億"},{"start":546.874,"end":563.073,"text":"好 我想就是我的時間有限啦私底下再跟那個圖雲就是討論一下就是近期的一個這個換款的一個比例那個主席最後讓我最後一分鐘煙酒公司那個湯董事長湯董事長"},{"start":563.934,"end":592.544,"text":"我想那個湯董事長是行銷的一個專才當然剛才郭國文委員有在講到通路是最重要的那這裡頭那個因為冬天吃薑母鴨、麻油雞還有就是說羊肉爐這個是一個最鼎盛的那個季節我特別請教一下那個董事長所有在今年這一季冬季的時候這幾種米酒裡頭哪一種銷路是最好的"},{"start":594.335,"end":615.321,"text":"公務員報告效率最好的還是我們600ml的紅標料理米酒這個27塊的這個是不是 對好那我們知道說你這一個米酒已經好幾年都不漲價了那誰不准你漲價財政部長他認為說你要體恤體恤這個整個民生上的一個需求那你自行吸收了多少錢"},{"start":616.816,"end":644.163,"text":"跟我們報告目前米酒的部分因為配合政府政策民生產品照顧國人所以今年跟明年都沒有漲價的計畫那我們現在每一瓶我們現在一年紅標料理米酒大概要損失大概5億左右當然我們也希望說是不是可以列為不利因素那我們目前的米酒是由我們各個酒品去分攤這個損失"},{"start":645.823,"end":663.739,"text":"所以董事長你評估還可以在幾年不漲你還可以支撐下去就是說你的紅標米酒你一樣就是不漲可以支撐個幾年其實是支撐不住啦我們就是想辦法還是繼續賺錢來補貼這個產品啦好 謝謝也謝謝主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}