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也是學生嗎 也是雙重身份他是住院醫師 他有學生的身份嗎應該是沒有 完全沒有學生的身份那其實今天這個事情之所以社會嘩然了因為這所謂的權威醫生這個權威醫生導致的這個性騷案其實讓全社會都非常的驚訝和訝異"},{"start":145.626,"end":159.07,"text":"那這個過程中就透露出來我們整個制度和文化上很大的缺陷和很大的問題喔所以今天我剛剛特別問這個問題其實我也有聽今天早上所有的這個質詢"},{"start":161.031,"end":188.202,"text":"當然我們要依法依規勿枉勿縱可是發現這個問題是兩個部長以及教育部的代表C教授的案子是跨身份跨法規競合的案例如果法律沒有規範義務通報的話那的確是法律的漏洞但是在法律還沒修正之前其實這種跨身份或是跨法規競合的案例其實最常也會出現在實習生的身上"},{"start":189.147,"end":214.926,"text":"對不對 所以您也點頭那請問一下各位萬一如果未來又發生這樣的性騷案件請問各單位要如何處理才不會拖延啊是 這個我們會來跟醫院這邊我們因為有這次的經驗所以我們會建立一個相關的管道那以前是因為我們區分得很清楚就是說因為像這次涉及的是住院醫師事實上他已經沒有學生的身分可是像您講的說如果這一位當事人"},{"start":215.606,"end":237.455,"text":"有老師的身份他如果他有老師的身份的話我們是不是就請醫院這邊如果知道任何的訊息就可以至少讓學校這邊有一個先知道的這個這個管道所以其實我其實是很敬重我們吳院長和我們的高副院長我們高教授這都是一件很令人驚訝的那這一次當然我聽了你們所有的"},{"start":238.636,"end":256.412,"text":"這個回應其實有很多社會上的質疑有一些部分有一些部分有回答為什麼當初這樣可能沒有意識到他是教授的身份所以我今天特別請各位上來就是說包含部長包含教育部或是包含我們院方和校方其實這個東西應該是會存在在非常多的這種制度裡面這是不是應該痛定思痛的來檢討所以的確當初發生這個事情但是我還有一個疑點"},{"start":262.498,"end":287.328,"text":"就是我想要請問一下我們的這個調查組委就是其實我想要請問這位C教授這個權威教授他在台大醫院任職了多久在這個地方任職了多久他任職應該是20多年對那我想要請問一下針對這件事情你們有沒有更進一步的作為因為事實上20多年我相信不會是到今年才發生這件事情吧"},{"start":288.763,"end":295.222,"text":"那這個部分我們應該怎麼去處理呢因為這個是一個令人令社會非常震驚的事情"},{"start":296.328,"end":323.013,"text":"我想對於性騷擾這些全民的這個價值了解等等也是最近漸漸的促進前行而且有很多很多的法規那所以那另外一方面其實他有要求要有申訴人那我們這一次我必須要再回去剛才回答前面的問題我們只要針對教職其實他只要有申訴人出來我們是立即通知學校所以從過去的"},{"start":323.973,"end":347.648,"text":"鄭王李等等的事件都是這樣子都是立即通知學校那但是我們也鑒於就是說譬如說鄭的那個事件後來我們因為他是可能懷疑有性侵所以我們性騷沒有辦法處理所以我們用一個另外一個調查小組醫院也是很積極在做那這個因為他確實是他沒有申訴人而我們用雇主主動"},{"start":348.689,"end":373.411,"text":"所以才會調查其實我剛剛就是說我有聽你們這些東西所以我現在還是在強調就是說那這個東西你們應該是不是因為二十多年來那這個陳鵝就是應該怎麼去跟除他呢這問題到底要怎麼處理其實這跟勞動部霸凌事件其實有類似的相似之處這就為什麼這次開這個會其實我覺得也很有意義啊就請你們來講清楚之外避免大家持續的"},{"start":374.692,"end":395.377,"text":"這個對於你們的有一些誤解可是事實上這個東西才是你們應該看到的而不是就是說我都是依法依規處理因為顯然這個在這個環境裡面已經有造成這樣的狀況而且二十多年我是不相信就只有到今年才會有人才會有人講這件事情還有另外一個問題就是為什麼沒有申訴人這是不是也值得深究的問題"},{"start":396.337,"end":412.797,"text":"就是說為什麼他告訴你了但是他不敢申訴為什麼不敢正式成為申訴人我想這個不只在台大院任何一個受害者他加上權勢等等都有可能他有他的考量他的隱私他的家人等等的考量所以這個我們一定要尊重"},{"start":413.337,"end":436.62,"text":"所以也就是鑒於說有可能會影響到他個人所以我們才用由僱主來直接辦案因為我們聽到大概就是有兩三位那也就是這兩三位他也願意接受訪談我們才有可能把這個案子查得比較清楚那至於說過去等等因為現在所受害的就是在現況"},{"start":437.681,"end":455.381,"text":"她有讓她闡述這段時間的情形那過去有沒有這個我們真的不知道因為沒有調查到那麼那跟針對過去這個部分怎麼辦有很多人現在還在可能還創傷甚至是當初開記者會的時候就是有女性醫師寫出她整個經歷歷歷在目"},{"start":457.643,"end":474.458,"text":"所以我想其實我也是用理性的方式在跟你們對話我覺得這應該是一個跨部會要痛定思痛包含說這個多身分別有沒有需要把這個法律的漏洞補齊然後以及校方內校方跟醫院這種我相信也不是只有台大是"},{"start":475.379,"end":500.26,"text":"對不對 那這個部分是不是應該也要由這個台大來做一個典範不然當初這個所有的事情就讓真的是讓大家很震驚啊這些婦產科醫生看了多少的女性然後二十幾年來然後只有最近這些案子被人家曝光那二十幾年來有多少人是受害者不知道所以這個部分我希望這個是不是可以請不管是部長或是我們台大校方跟醫院我知道"},{"start":501.561,"end":524.874,"text":"這個主委你是照依法你覺得是依你的法依法行政去處理可是我相信您身為這個女性的醫生你一定很感同身受對我們其實對受害者的學生我們有給他很清楚的比如說所有他們只要能夠願意來跟我們談我們都提供很多的隨時待命所以這個部分"},{"start":526.194,"end":549.739,"text":"這部分還要麻煩我們會再繼續努力另外吳院長我也要跟您說一下你剛剛有一直說就是大家給機會來把這件事情闡述清楚其實我覺得這一次真的是讓社會好好的審視到底發生了什麼事情所以今天的質詢很有意義但是吳院長你剛剛說這個絕對沒有受這個壓力其實我要告訴你當初的報導不是指你們有受到壓力其實是台大校方說校長有受到壓力"},{"start":551.099,"end":568.457,"text":"這是台大校方可是校長沒有來但是當然其實我上次質詢也說校長挺住了壓力所以才讓這件事情爆出來也沒有因此不讓他就是讓他就是去退休這我我是認同的但是因為就是有背後到底什麼壓力存在這個校長沒來根本不清楚所以我要告訴院長是這樣"},{"start":569.478,"end":598.253,"text":"所以這個到底是有沒有人有沒有什麼問題沒關係你不用回答因為這個問題不是在你身上不過我是回答剛才廖委員提到的我們之後我想會不會預防生理治療其實在這件事情調查的當中我們就已經在很多的醫務行政會議甚至我們在主治醫師座談會我們都有宣傳這個性騷髮甚至我們請了王立榮這個專家來跟所有的人講"},{"start":599.153,"end":616.422,"text":"所以這一方面我們是希望可以預防剩餘治療還有管道的安全性因為你們管道要讓這個受害人要有信任可以去申訴因為醫界可能很多人覺得圈圈小有一些權威性真的是在醫界權威度非常高根本不敢講"},{"start":617.342,"end":646.562,"text":"對不對那你要怎麼樣去做到這個透明又保障讓他們所謂的透明不是就是對他來講他是不會被其他這些加害者的周遭的人去通風報信的這個狀況我要請這個院長和我們的高副院長是不是在這部分繼續努力還有文化上面這個職場的整個制度的問題是不是要再拜託你們成為再一次成為台灣在這部分的標杆因為我想真的不會是只有存在在所謂台大的體系裡面"},{"start":647.382,"end":672.004,"text":"我們有決心一定會把它做好而且我們一定會做好保障我們也在院方的層次裡面事實上這些人包括以這次涉案科部的主任他是一直到4月才被調查小組約談他才知道他們科部有這種事情所以我們怕一開始就讓科部的主任知道的話就會影響這個"},{"start":672.765,"end":696.602,"text":"好那我們也順便講一下王祖密啊這個有人施壓或什麼的請你們不要害怕該做的就要做不知道有沒有因為校長也沒來嘛本來想問的大家也沒來那沒關係你不用回答因為你也沒辦法帶他回答誰知道對不對也沒有辦法調查嘛也沒有什麼也沒有辦法徵竊聽或什麼都沒有辦法所以我只是要提醒的就是說針對這種事情就應該要勇敢的去承擔勇敢的去處理"},{"start":698.283,"end":711.419,"text":"那這次當然你們也並沒有受到什麼所謂的壓力就改變了你們的決策但是這部分要請你們也盡速處理那謝謝我們台大校方院方還有衛福部長也可以先回座我問一下勞動部長好像時間不太夠一分鐘我先問一下好我直接跳好了"},{"start":720.765,"end":738.178,"text":"我想要問一下部長有關身心障礙者的權益保障法因為上一屆在審議時因為內容不周全就遭到障礙團體的抗議然而在去年5月障礙團體也已經達成共識也召開記者會希望盡速的審查"},{"start":738.999,"end":759.706,"text":"然後截至到第十屆結束的時候到現在還沒有排審那第十一屆剛開始的時候其實前行政院長陳建仁也承諾說520前要這個送交草案但現在已經到年底了請問卡關的原因是什麼為什麼沒有送版本到立法院來跟文說明申選法的主責是衛福部講錯了衛福部對OK"},{"start":767.82,"end":785.808,"text":"非常感謝廖委員對於本案的關心我們現在其實部內已經我們已經做完相關的修訂那我們現在目前已經送到院那邊我們現在目前我想我們的法規會我想廖委員您非常關心的就是說其實最重要可能是有關自立生活這個部分"},{"start":786.608,"end":802.255,"text":"自立生活這邊我們現在目前也已經有相關的一個的一個延命那這個部分我想其實院長他也非常非常關心我們的整個自立生活這邊我們的相關的一些的一些規範這部分我是不是也請主席所以大概什麼時候"},{"start":803.65,"end":829.858,"text":"報告委員我們大概現在開完部內的法規會之後我們1月底因為還遇到過年所以可能會是2月的時候上旬的時候會送到行政院這邊那行政院也承諾說會盡快來召開法規的一個審查那我們希望說可以盡快來完成相關的程序所以剛剛你有提到我們次長有提到說就是個人制度協助制度沒有入法上次的那這一次呢這一次會嗎"},{"start":831.272,"end":846.759,"text":"我們有研擬了大概一個條文希望把這個部分來強調不要跟委員報告上一次之所以沒有辦法完全照某些團體的意思把它入法的原因是團體之間有兩派的做法因為其他的團體非常多的團體認為"},{"start":848.76,"end":871.384,"text":"心理重建生活重建等等跟自力生活是相同重要的他們不答應說單獨的列一條所以我們做了很多工作在兩邊很多團體之間的協調那最後最近可能這個協調比較完成了好那所以希望你們儘速將這版本送到立法院來好不好因為已經拖了蠻久而且也超過很超過之前陳建仁院長說的時間好謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T11:59:27.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:59:32.008000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請衛福部長、勞動部長，還有吳院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2025-01-02T11:59:32.008000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T11:59:39.261000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T11:59:39.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:59:40.521000+08:00","text":"還有臺大校方的王主秘。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T11:59:40.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:59:41.462000+08:00","text":"想要先請問一下王主秘，學生受性騷的部分，校方是何時知悉的？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T11:59:41.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:59:41.882000+08:00","text":"是112年底還是113年2月？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T11:59:41.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T11:59:43.242000+08:00","text":"還是113年6月25日的時候，臺大醫院發函給校方，校方才知道，請問是哪個時間點？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T12:00:07.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:00:31.087000+08:00","text":"報告委員，事情是發生在臺大醫院，當事人並不是學生，所以學校事實上在第一線是不知道的，因為受到騷擾的應該算是醫院的員工，所以學校是在醫院處理完以後才知道的。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:00:32.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:00:43.630000+08:00","text":"所以我想要請問一下，如果有這些受害的人，發生這個事情，醫院應該何時通報校方？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:00:44.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:00:46.013000+08:00","text":"還有主秘，請問醫院有義務通報嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T12:00:48.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:00:59.086000+08:00","text":"因為就是剛剛提到的，依照性工法，發生在工作場域，就由工作場域的負責人，現在就是臺大醫院來處理。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T12:00:59.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:01:05.732000+08:00","text":"如果中間有涉及學生，當然他們就有義務要跟學校講，學校也會馬上處理。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T12:01:06.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:01:12.938000+08:00","text":"可是因為這個事情，就是剛剛跟委員報告的，沒有學生涉及在裡面，所以就不是……","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:01:14.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:01:15.299000+08:00","text":"不是被性騷擾的就是學生之一？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:01:15.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:01:16.740000+08:00","text":"也是學生吧！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:01:17.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:01:17.440000+08:00","text":"等於是雙重身分。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T12:01:18.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:01:19.641000+08:00","text":"他是住院醫師。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:01:19.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:01:21.881000+08:00","text":"他有學生的身分嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T12:01:21.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:01:22.101000+08:00","text":"應該是沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:01:22.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:01:24.002000+08:00","text":"完全沒有學生的身分？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T12:01:24.002000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T12:01:25.002000+08:00","text":"沒有學生身分。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:01:24.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:01:46.209000+08:00","text":"其實今天這個事情之所以社會譁然，因為是所謂的權威醫生導致的性騷擾案，讓全社會都非常的驚訝和訝異，這過程中就透露出來，我們整個制度和文化上很大的缺陷和很大的問題。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:01:47.189000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:01:55.872000+08:00","text":"所以我剛剛特別問這個問題，其實我也有聽今天早上所有的質詢，當然我們要依法依規、勿枉勿縱。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:01:55.872000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:02:11.538000+08:00","text":"可是發現這個問題是，兩個部長以及教育部的代表，C教授的案子是跨身分、跨法規競合的案例，如果法律沒有規範有義務通報的話，那的確是法律的漏洞。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:02:12.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:02:21.267000+08:00","text":"但是在法律還沒修正之前，這種跨身分或是跨法規競合的案例，其實也最常會出現在實習生身上，對不對？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:02:21.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:02:22.488000+08:00","text":"您也點頭。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:02:22.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:02:29.193000+08:00","text":"請問一下各位，如果未來又發生這樣的性騷擾案件，各單位要如何處理才不會拖延？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T12:02:30.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:02:37.078000+08:00","text":"是，我們會來跟醫院這邊，因為有這次的經驗，所以我們會建立一個相關的管道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王主任秘書大銘","start":"2025-01-02T12:02:37.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:03:00.771000+08:00","text":"以前是因為我們區分得很清楚，像這次涉及的是住院醫師，事實上他已經沒有學生的身分，可是像您講的，如果這位當事人有老師的身分，我們是不是就請醫院這邊，如果知道任何的訊息，至少可以讓學校這邊有一個先知悉的管道。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:03:01.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:03:07.494000+08:00","text":"我其實很敬重吳院長和高副院長，高教授，這都是醫界很令人景仰的。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:03:08.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:03:17.362000+08:00","text":"當然這一次我聽了你們所有的回應，其實有很多社會上的質疑，有一些部分有回答，為什麼當初這樣，可能沒有意識到他是教授的身分。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:03:17.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:03:22.827000+08:00","text":"我今天特別請各位上來，包含部長、包含教育部，或是包含院方和校方。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:03:23.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:03:27.852000+08:00","text":"其實這個東西應該會存在於非常多的制度裡面，是不是應該痛定思痛來檢討？","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:03:27.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:03:42.481000+08:00","text":"的確當初發生這個事情，我還有一個疑點，我想要請問一下調查主委，請問這位C教授，這個權威教授，他在臺大醫院任職了多久？","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"高副院長淑芬","start":"2025-01-02T12:03:45.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:03:46.443000+08:00","text":"他任職應該是二十多年。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:03:48.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:03:53.646000+08:00","text":"我想要請問一下，針對這件事情，你們有沒有更進一步的作為？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:03:53.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:03:59.308000+08:00","text":"事實上二十多年，我相信不會是到今年才發生這件事情吧！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:04:01.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:04:03.090000+08:00","text":"這部分我們應該怎麼去處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:04:03.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:04:07.202000+08:00","text":"因為這是一個令社會非常震驚的事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高副院長淑芬","start":"2025-01-02T12:04:08.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:04:23.271000+08:00","text":"我想對性騷擾，這些全民的價值、瞭解等等，也是最近漸漸的逐漸成型，而且有很多的法規，另外一方面，其實它有要求要有申訴人。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"高副院長淑芬","start":"2025-01-02T12:04:23.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:04:40.496000+08:00","text":"我們這一次，我必須要再回答前面的問題，我們只要針對教職，其實只要有申訴人出來，我們是立即通知學校，所以從過去的鄭、王、李等等的事件，都是這樣子，都是立即通知學校。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高副院長淑芬","start":"2025-01-02T12:04:41.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:04:54.265000+08:00","text":"但是我們也鑑於譬如鄭的事件，因為後來我們懷疑他可能有性侵，所以我們性騷擾沒有辦法處理，我們用另外一個調查小組，醫院也是很積極在做。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"高副院長淑芬","start":"2025-01-02T12:04:55.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:05:01.009000+08:00","text":"這個因為他確實沒有申訴人，而我們用雇主主動，所以才會調查結果……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:05:02.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:05:13.160000+08:00","text":"謝謝高副院長，我剛剛就說我有聽你們講這些東西，我現在還是強調，二十多年來，這個沉痾究竟應該怎麼根除？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:05:14.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:05:15.382000+08:00","text":"這個問題到底要怎麼處理？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:05:15.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:05:20.607000+08:00","text":"其實這跟勞動部的霸凌事件有相似之處，這就是為什麼要開這次的會。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:05:20.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:05:27.752000+08:00","text":"其實我覺得也很有意義，除了請你們來講清楚之外，避免大家持續對你們有一些誤解。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:05:28.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:05:42.216000+08:00","text":"可是事實上，這個東西才是你們應該看到的，而不是說我都是依法依規處理，因為顯然在這個環境裡面，已經有造成這樣的狀況，而且二十多年，我不相信只有到今年才會有人講這件事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:05:42.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:05:45.256000+08:00","text":"還有另外一個問題就是為什麼沒有申訴人？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:05:45.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:05:47.377000+08:00","text":"這是不是也值得深究的問題？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:05:48.778000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:05:51.461000+08:00","text":"為什麼他告訴你了，但是他不敢申訴？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:05:51.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:05:52.622000+08:00","text":"為什麼不敢正式成為申訴人？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高副院長淑芬","start":"2025-01-02T12:05:52.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:06:04.776000+08:00","text":"我想這個不只在臺大醫院，任何一個受害者，再加上權勢等等，都可能有他的考量，他的隱私、他的家人等等的考量，這個我們一定要尊重。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"高副院長淑芬","start":"2025-01-02T12:06:06.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:06:22.274000+08:00","text":"鑑於可能會影響到他個人，我們才由雇主來直接辦案，因為我們聽到大概有兩、三位，也就是這兩、三位也願意接受訪談，我們才有可能把這個案子查得比較清楚。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"高副院長淑芬","start":"2025-01-02T12:06:22.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:06:37.830000+08:00","text":"至於過去等等，因為現在受害的就是現況，有讓他闡述這段時間的情形，過去有沒有，這個我們真的不知道，因為沒有調查到那麼……","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:06:38.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:06:39.812000+08:00","text":"針對過去這個部分怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:06:39.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:06:47.361000+08:00","text":"有很多人現在可能還有創傷，甚至當初開記者會的時候，有女性醫師寫出她整個經歷，歷歷在目。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:06:50.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:07:07.679000+08:00","text":"其實我也是用理性的方式在跟你們對話，我覺得這應該是一個跨部會要痛定思痛的問題，包含多身分別，有沒有需要把這個法律的漏洞補齊，以及校方內，校方跟醫院這種，我相信也不是只有臺大，對不對？是。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:07:08.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:07:12.203000+08:00","text":"這個部分是不是應該也要由臺大來做一個典範？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:07:12.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:07:18.389000+08:00","text":"不然當初所有的事情，真的是讓大家很震驚，婦產科醫生看了多少女性？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:07:19.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:07:24.334000+08:00","text":"二十幾年來，只有最近這些案子被人家曝光，二十幾年來有多少人是受害者？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:07:24.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:07:24.754000+08:00","text":"不知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:07:25.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:07:42.646000+08:00","text":"所以這個部分，我希望不管是部長或是臺大校方跟醫院……我知道主委覺得你是依法行政去處理，可是我相信，你身為女性的醫生，你一定很感同身受。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"高副院長淑芬","start":"2025-01-02T12:07:44.187000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:07:56.854000+08:00","text":"對，我們其實對受害者的學生，我們有給他很清楚的，比如說他們只要願意來跟我們談，我們都隨時待命，所以這個部分……","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:07:58.194000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:08:00.234000+08:00","text":"對，這部分還要麻煩高院長。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"高副院長淑芬","start":"2025-01-02T12:08:00.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:08:00.935000+08:00","text":"我們會再繼續努力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:08:02.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:08:07.076000+08:00","text":"另外吳院長，我也要跟您說一下，你剛剛一直說是大家給你機會把這件事情闡述清楚。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:08:07.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:08:12.457000+08:00","text":"其實我覺得，這一次真的是讓社會好好的審視到底發生了什麼事情，所以今天的質詢很有意義。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:08:12.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:08:24.761000+08:00","text":"但是吳院長你剛剛說，絕對沒有受到壓力，我要告訴你，當初的報導不是指你們有受到壓力，其實是臺大校方說校長有受到壓力，可是校長沒有來。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:08:25.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:08:34.531000+08:00","text":"當然我上次質詢也說，校長挺住了壓力，所以才讓這件事情爆出來，也沒有因此讓他退休……這點我是認同的。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:08:34.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:08:42.859000+08:00","text":"但是背後到底有什麼壓力存在，這位校長沒來根本不清楚，所以我要告訴院長，到底有沒有人？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:08:43.119000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:08:46.401000+08:00","text":"有沒有什麼……沒關係，你不用回答，因為這個問題不是在你身上。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T12:08:46.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:09:10.253000+08:00","text":"不過我回答剛才廖委員提到的，我想我們之後會預防勝於治療，其實在這件事情的調查當中，我們就已經在很多的醫務行政會議，連主治醫師座談會都有宣傳性騷擾，甚至請了王麗蓉專家來跟所有的人講。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T12:09:11.153000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:09:15.255000+08:00","text":"所以這一方面，我們是希望可以預防勝於治療……","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:09:15.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:09:29.882000+08:00","text":"還有管道的安全性，你們的管道要讓受害人信任，可以去申訴，因為醫界可能很多人覺得圈圈小，有一些真的是在醫界權威度非常高，根本不敢講，對不對？","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:09:30.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:09:41.270000+08:00","text":"你要怎麼樣去做到透明又有保障，讓他們……對他來講，不會被其他加害者周遭的人去通風報信。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:09:42.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:09:54.599000+08:00","text":"我要請院長和高副院長，是不是在這部分繼續努力，還有文化上面，整個職場的制度問題，是不是再拜託你們，再次成為臺灣這部分的標竿？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:09:55.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:09:58.542000+08:00","text":"因為我想這個真的不會只存在在臺大體系裡面。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T12:09:58.542000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T12:09:59.542000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"高副院長淑芬","start":"2025-01-02T12:09:59.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:10:01.464000+08:00","text":"我們有決心一定會把它做好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:10:01.464000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T12:10:02.464000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2025-01-02T12:10:01.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:10:24.004000+08:00","text":"而且我們一定會做好保障，我們也在院方的層次裡面，事實上這些人，包括這次涉案科部的主任，他是一直到4月才被調查小組約談，他才知道他們科部有這種事情，我們也是怕一開始就讓科部的主任知道會有影響。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:10:24.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:10:30.789000+08:00","text":"好，那我們也順便講一下，王主秘，有人施壓或什麼的，請你們不要害怕，該做的就要做。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:10:32.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:10:35.393000+08:00","text":"不知道有沒有，因為校長也沒來，本來想問的他也沒來。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:10:35.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:10:38.975000+08:00","text":"沒關係，你不用回答，因為你也沒辦法代他回答，誰知道對不對？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:10:38.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:10:43.278000+08:00","text":"也沒有辦法調查，也沒有辦法竊聽或做什麼，都沒有辦法。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:10:43.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:10:48.582000+08:00","text":"所以我只是要提醒，針對這種事情就應該要勇敢去承擔，勇敢的去處理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:10:50.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:10:55.529000+08:00","text":"這次當然你們也沒有受到什麼壓力，就改變了你們的決策。是。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:10:56.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:11:01.196000+08:00","text":"但是這部分也要請你們儘速處理，謝謝臺大校方、院方，還有衛福部長也可以先回座。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:11:01.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:11:24.394000+08:00","text":"我問一下勞動部長，好像時間不太夠，1分鐘，有關身心障礙者的權益保障法，上一屆在審議時，因為內容不周全，遭到障礙團體抗議。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:11:24.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:11:35.961000+08:00","text":"然而在去年5月，障礙團體已經達成共識，也召開記者會，希望儘速審查，截至第10屆結束的時候，到現在還沒有排審。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:11:36.101000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:11:48.745000+08:00","text":"第11屆剛開始的時候，其實前行政院長陳建仁也承諾520前要送交草案，但現在已經到年底，請問卡關的原因是什麼，為什麼沒有送版本到立法院來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-01-02T12:11:48.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:11:51.286000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，身權法的主責是衛福部。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:11:51.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:11:51.506000+08:00","text":"講錯了，是衛福部。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2025-01-02T12:11:59.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:12:13.746000+08:00","text":"非常感謝廖委員對本案的關心，其實我們部內現在已經做完相關的修訂，目前已經送到院那邊……我們的法規會啦！","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2025-01-02T12:12:13.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:12:17.788000+08:00","text":"我想廖委員非常關心的，其實最重要的可能是有關自立生活這個部分。對。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2025-01-02T12:12:18.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:12:33.334000+08:00","text":"自立生活這邊，我們目前也已經有相關的研擬，這部分我想其實院長也非常關心，我們整個自立生活相關的一些規範，這部分我是不是也請組長……","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:12:33.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:12:34.235000+08:00","text":"所以大概什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"尤組長詒君","start":"2025-01-02T12:12:35.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:12:47.153000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們現在開完部內的法規會之後，大概1月底，因為還遇到過年，所以可能會是2月上旬的時候會送到行政院。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"尤組長詒君","start":"2025-01-02T12:12:47.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:12:54.836000+08:00","text":"行政院也承諾會儘快召開法規的審查，我們希望可以儘快完成相關程序。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:12:55.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:13:01.538000+08:00","text":"剛剛次長有提到，上次的個人協助制度沒有入法，這次呢？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:13:01.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:13:01.858000+08:00","text":"這次會嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"尤組長詒君","start":"2025-01-02T12:13:03.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:13:07.074000+08:00","text":"我們有大概研擬了一個條文，希望來強調這個部分。","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"尤組長詒君","start":"2025-01-02T12:13:07.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:13:16.918000+08:00","text":"不過要跟委員報告，上一次之所以沒有辦法完全照某些團體的意思入法的原因，是因為團體之間有兩派的說法。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"尤組長詒君","start":"2025-01-02T12:13:17.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:13:27.901000+08:00","text":"因為其他非常多的團體認為心理重建、生活重建等等，跟自立生活是相同重要的，他們不答應單獨的列一條。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"尤組長詒君","start":"2025-01-02T12:13:27.901000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:13:35.523000+08:00","text":"所以我們做了很多工作，在兩邊、很多團體之間的協調，最近可能協調比較完成了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:13:35.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:13:38.703000+08:00","text":"好，希望你們儘速將這個版本送到立法院，好不好？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"尤組長詒君","start":"2025-01-02T12:13:38.703000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T12:13:39.703000+08:00","text":"是，一定會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2025-01-02T12:13:38.883000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:13:43.384000+08:00","text":"因為已經拖了滿久，而且也超過之前陳建仁院長說的時間，謝謝。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"尤組長詒君","start":"2025-01-02T12:13:43.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-02T12:13:43.384000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2025-01-02T12:13:43.884000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T12:13:45.884000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。謝謝。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-02T12:13:46.184000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-02T12:13:52.184000+08:00","text":"謝謝廖委員、謝謝部長，接續我們請黃秀芳召委質詢。","quality":0.19}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}