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謝謝主席那我想請 先請劉部長上台好 請劉部長委員好部長好我們今天雖然是審查國家公園法但是我在詢問國家公園相關問題前我還是想針對你在1月2號部務會議的時候那記者會的這個部會後面的記者會的發言來進行詢問"},{"start":34.355,"end":63.615,"text":"你其實在1月2號的時候提到才化法通過後內政部可能需要配合刪減28%的預算28%是多少其實高達了283.5億而且按照相關的法令還不能扣除法定義務支出和一般型的補助所以我想請部長你能不能再明白說明一下就是內政部有沒有試算過之後到底會減少多少然後發生什麼樣的狀況"},{"start":64.515,"end":80.244,"text":"就是283億嗎是的謝謝委員我們是根據這個那個行政院主計總署所提出來的就是說如果有28%的三減的額度的話那我們是哪一些額度呢可能會需要請地方政府自籌裁員"},{"start":81.424,"end":108.379,"text":"也就是說我們的立場不管財政收支劃分法未來到底有沒有三讀通過然後會影響到114年的預算在我們內政委員會其實已經有就是說在內政委已經有審查通過大部分的內政部的預算我們是希望按照這樣子的業務來進行但是在預算的分配就會配合在立法院的財劃法是否有送到總統府公告之後有沒有影響到114年"},{"start":109.079,"end":115.504,"text":"所以我們內政部是要配合行政院的整體的作業所以我們在試算的過程當中所以我覺得您應該是要趕快開始進行這相關的未來預期的狀況所以我們確實很想知道那到底哪一些"},{"start":130.595,"end":157.39,"text":"影響的金額是這麼高三成兩百多億將近三百億這樣的狀況那到底哪一些預算會受到影響是新興計劃嗎還是計劃型補助還是什麼部長你在這裡到底試算的結果到什麼程度了能不能跟我們分享一下也讓我們有個心理準備啊是報告委員我想大家都知道新興計劃如果沒有經過大院在未來的一百一十四年總預算通過的時候不能夠"},{"start":158.911,"end":178.329,"text":"但是我們現在試算的就是已經實行很多年的計畫大一部分都會放在我們國土的業務這其實跟人民一般生活很多耶對 譬如說生活圈 道路上 或者是說人行道的安全改善中央政府跟地方政府都有一定的籌款的比例"},{"start":181.212,"end":188.379,"text":"那另外一個就是說我們在籌辦非常多時也深受大院很多委員同意譬如說我們的社會住宅興建還有我們包租代管業務還有我們土地租金的補貼等等這些大一部分283億的預算會落在這個區塊那這個區塊未來的增點會是說那是由地方政府來出還是中央政府出"},{"start":203.433,"end":229.738,"text":"因為我們認為說業務還是要照常推動不要影響到一般人民對 我們就舉一個這個人行道的改善好了過去為我的選區為新北爭取了非常多這個人行道改善計畫的補助部長你可不可以說明一下現在以新北舉例的話我們補助的乘數是多少那你有沒有預算過那未來補助的乘數是到零嗎還是是已經有一個預設的狀況我們要看一下在新北市現在多少 以現在來講的話"},{"start":234.065,"end":254.768,"text":"現在在那個新北市它的財力分級是第二級也就是自籌款的比例是百分之三十是啊所以現在七成都是由中央補助的喔過去我們這樣爭取的時候七成是由中央補助報告委員我跟您補充一下有關於這個租金補貼的部分在過去的兩年是全部由中央來支付"},{"start":255.328,"end":276.235,"text":"是這是基金補貼我剛剛說我們如果以人行道改善為例的話過去是七成是由中央補助因為我們爭取太多了所以我們印象深刻每一條如果不是中央補助的話其實這個部分幾乎沒有辦法改善這樣的狀況就是一般的狀況我們通常在過去幾年當中的前瞻基礎建設計畫裡面其實中央的這個層數就會更高"},{"start":281.017,"end":305.432,"text":"所以過去我們其實在前瞻計畫裡面新北市在全國的爭取數額是排名第二那在其他的中央補助方面其實我們的占比是相當的高的那現在如果新的財化法這樣通過之後我們當然樂見地方有更多的財源沒錯但是到底權責怎麼分我們也是希望中央這邊能夠盡快跟地方政府討論完之後"},{"start":306.633,"end":307.354,"text":"我們要有心理準備"},{"start":336.593,"end":350.985,"text":"全責在中央還是在地方是 其實我們在處理這些預算有可能會影響到我剛有提到我們不希望影響到一般的市民的生活當然沒有人希望影響那就是中央政府跟地方政府全責劃分清楚全責劃分的話是要每樣每樣來"},{"start":353.547,"end":355.729,"text":"其實我們會一個縣市一個縣市跟他們仔細講其實再跟你就教一下啦其實剛剛說到是一般人民生活有感但其實以全國大的專案來講的話比如說打仗"},{"start":374.045,"end":384.592,"text":"打架的專案現在是有跨部會73億嘛 傾州警政署是有這個網路科技運用經濟計畫就高達44億那這個計畫會不會受影響我們的打架成效會不會受影響這個到時候也應該要說明一下對 網路經濟計畫的話全部都是由警政署來處理是啊 所以這個網路科技運用經濟計畫會不會受到影響"},{"start":394.918,"end":416.042,"text":"那如果像今天跟國家公園相關的這個太魯閣國家公園0403的地震災後復建計畫30億嘛30億那這個會不會受到影響因為這個是以行政院的特別預算或是二倍金來處理的是所以過去行政院其實已經補助相當的多那現在的這些到底哪一些是會受到影響的我們希望在下個會議一開始的時候不早也可以讓我們大家能夠了解全責"},{"start":420.003,"end":427.309,"text":"全責的劃分我想這是全國人民都想知道的部分我們會以大院未來的這個設定的方向為主來做設算好謝謝部長好那我們請張志龍委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:17:04.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:17:06.202000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我想請先請劉部長上台。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-06T09:17:06.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:17:06.662000+08:00","text":"請劉部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T09:17:06.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:17:06.742000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:17:06.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:17:06.902000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:17:06.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:17:40.841000+08:00","text":"我們今天雖然是審查國家公園法，但是我在詢問國家公園相關問題前，我還是想針對你在1月2號部務會議後面記者會的發言來進行詢問，你在1月2號的時候提到，財劃法通過後，內政部可能需要配合刪減28%的預算。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:17:42.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:17:42.262000+08:00","text":"28%是多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:17:42.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:17:52.488000+08:00","text":"高達了283.5億，而且按照相關的法令，還不能扣除法定義務支出和一般型的補助。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:17:53.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:18:00.734000+08:00","text":"所以部長能不能再明白說明一下，內政部有沒有試算過之後到底會減少多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:18:01.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:18:01.615000+08:00","text":"發生什麼樣的狀況？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:18:02.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:18:04.196000+08:00","text":"就是刪減283億嗎？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T09:18:04.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:18:15.442000+08:00","text":"是的，謝謝委員，我們是根據行政院主計總處所提出來的，如果有28%刪減額度的話，那我們是哪一些額度呢？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T09:18:15.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:18:35.753000+08:00","text":"可能會需要請地方政府自籌財源，也就是說，站在我們的立場，不管財政收支劃分法未來到底有沒有三讀通過，會影響到114年的預算，在我們內政委會其實已經有審查通過大部分內政部的預算。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T09:18:36.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:18:46.339000+08:00","text":"我們是希望按照這樣的業務來進行，但是在預算的分配，就會配合在立法院的財劃法是否有送到總統府公告之後，有沒有影響到……","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:18:46.339000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T09:18:47.339000+08:00","text":"沒錯，它已經三讀了，只是還沒有送出去。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:18:47.339000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T09:18:48.339000+08:00","text":"這是一個很奇妙的、史無前例的狀況。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T09:18:47.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:18:50.381000+08:00","text":"內政部是要配合行政院的整體的作業，我們在試算的過程當中……","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:18:50.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:19:16.840000+08:00","text":"所以我覺得你應該是要趕快開始進行相關未來預期的狀況，既然影響的金額這麼高，三成、二百多億，將近300億，我們確實很想知道到底哪一些預算會受到影響？","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:19:16.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:19:18.220000+08:00","text":"是新興計畫嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:19:18.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:19:19.861000+08:00","text":"還是計畫型補助，還是什麼？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:19:19.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:19:26.345000+08:00","text":"部長，試算的結果到什麼程度了，能不能跟我們分享一下，讓我們有心理準備？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T09:19:27.105000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:19:35.390000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我想大家都知道新興計畫如果沒有經過大院在未來114年總預算通過，是不能夠執行。對。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T09:19:36.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:19:45.579000+08:00","text":"但是我們現在試算的就是已經實行很多年的計畫，大部分都會放在我們國土的業務，國土的業務包括……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:19:45.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:19:46.760000+08:00","text":"這其實包含了很多人民一般生活的部分。","quality":0.529},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T09:19:48.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:19:52.226000+08:00","text":"對，比如說生活圈、道路上或者是人行道的安全改善。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:19:52.226000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T09:19:53.987000+08:00","text":"對，這個部分我們過去爭取很多補助。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T09:19:53.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:20:02.195000+08:00","text":"中央政府跟地方政府都有一定的籌款比例，另外一個就是說我們在籌辦非常多時……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T09:20:02.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:20:06.359000+08:00","text":"另外一個就是我們籌辦多時，也深受大院很多委員同意的，譬如說我們的社會住宅興建、包租代管業務，還有土地租金補貼等等，大約283億元的預算會落在這個區塊，這個區塊未來的爭點會是到底要由地方政府來出，還是中央政府來出？沒錯。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T09:20:21.753000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:20:25.894000+08:00","text":"可是我們認為業務還是要照常推動，不要影響到一般人民。對！","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:20:25.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:20:38.237000+08:00","text":"我們就以人行道的改善為例好了，過去我為我的選區、為新北爭取了非常多人行道改善計畫的補助，部長，你可不可以說明一下，以新北為例，現在補助的成數是多少？","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:20:38.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:20:42.877000+08:00","text":"有沒有預計過未來補助的成數是到零嗎？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:20:42.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:20:44.918000+08:00","text":"還是已經有一個預設的狀況？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T09:20:44.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:20:46.438000+08:00","text":"我們要看一下新北市……","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:20:46.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:20:47.158000+08:00","text":"現在是多少？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:20:47.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:20:47.738000+08:00","text":"以現在來講的話，補助是多少？","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T09:20:52.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:20:58.372000+08:00","text":"現在新北市的財力分級是第二級，也就是自籌款的比例是30%……是啊！","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:20:58.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:21:01.816000+08:00","text":"所以七成都是由中央補助的喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:21:01.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:21:04.819000+08:00","text":"過去我們爭取的時候，七成是由中央補助！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T09:21:05.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:21:12.748000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我跟您補充一下，有關租金補貼的部分，過去兩年是全部由中央支付……","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:21:13.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:21:28.893000+08:00","text":"這是租金補貼，我剛剛是說，如果以人行道改善為例的話，過去七成是由中央補助，因為我們爭取太多了嘛，所以印象深刻，每一條如果不是中央補助的話，其實這個部分幾乎沒有辦法改善。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T09:21:29.153000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:21:34.215000+08:00","text":"這是一般的狀況，在過去幾年的前瞻基礎建設計畫裡面，其實中央補助的成數會更高，尤其是大眾運輸工具……是啊！","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:21:39.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:22:05.354000+08:00","text":"所以過去在前瞻計畫裡面，新北市在全國的爭取數額是排名第二，在其他的中央補助方面，我們的占比也是相當高的，新的財劃法這樣通過之後，我們當然樂見地方有更多的財源沒有錯，但是到底權責怎麼分，我們也是希望中央能夠儘快跟地方政府討論完之後，我們要有心理準備，此外，到底要從什麼時候開始啟動這樣的算法和權責分布？","quality":0.799},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:22:05.354000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T09:22:35.053000+08:00","text":"部長，因為我們的會期大概就是到這個禮拜左右，最多也就到1月，所以是不是在下個會期之前能告訴我們，同時也讓地方政府能夠瞭解、讓全國民眾瞭解，到底哪些日常生活的狀況、跟我們直接相關的建設，尤其是越小型、越貼近一般生活的部分會受到影響？","quality":0.01},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:22:35.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:22:36.775000+08:00","text":"這個要讓我們清楚的知道，未來的權責是在中央，還是在地方。","quality":0.36},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T09:22:37.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:22:44.661000+08:00","text":"其實我們在處理這些預算，有可能會影響到……我剛剛有提到，我們不希望影響到一般市民的生活……","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:22:44.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:22:45.962000+08:00","text":"當然，沒有人希望影響……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T09:22:45.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:22:48.985000+08:00","text":"那就是中央政府和地方政府之間的權責劃分是要每一樣、每一樣來談。","quality":0.724},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T09:22:48.985000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T09:22:52.188000+08:00","text":"內政部所屬的部分大概就是在於剛剛所說的，包括生活圈道路或是人行道安全等等這些，我們會一個縣市、一個縣市，跟他們仔細研究。","quality":0.291},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:22:52.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:23:19.590000+08:00","text":"部長，我再跟你就教一下，剛剛說到一般人民生活有感，但是以全國大的專案來講的話，比如說打詐專案，現在是有跨部會73億元，其中警政署的網路科技運用精進計畫就高達44億元，這個計畫會不會受影響？","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:23:19.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:23:19.910000+08:00","text":"我們的打詐成效會不會受影響？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:23:19.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:23:20.410000+08:00","text":"這個到時候也應該說明一下啊！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T09:23:20.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:23:22.592000+08:00","text":"網路精進計畫全部都是由警政署來處理，所以地方政府沒有受到影響。","quality":0.724},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:23:32.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:23:41.700000+08:00","text":"好，那如果是跟國家公園相關的太魯閣國家公園0403地震災後復建計畫30億元，這個會不會受到影響？","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T09:23:41.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:23:45.961000+08:00","text":"也沒有受到影響，因為這個是以行政院的特別預算或是二備金來處理的。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:23:46.581000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:24:00.705000+08:00","text":"所以過去行政院其實已經補助相當多了，那現在到底哪些是會受到影響的，希望在下個會期一開始的時候，部長可以讓我們大家能夠瞭解權責的劃分，我想這是全國人民都想知道的部分。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T09:24:00.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:24:04.288000+08:00","text":"好，我們會以大院未來設定的方向為主來做設算。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-01-06T09:24:04.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:24:04.888000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-06T09:24:04.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T09:24:05.309000+08:00","text":"我們請張智倫委員。","quality":0.75}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}