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09:59:09","會議時間":"2025-01-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員牛煦庭等17人擬具「國家公園法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國家公園法部分條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「國家公園法第十三條及第二十四條條文修正草案」案。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":2.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.22471875,"end":2.3597187500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.91159375,"end":54.689093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.41909375,"end":79.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.04659375000001,"end":62.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.49534375,"end":89.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.23221875,"end":114.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.83096875000001,"end":91.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.73784375000001,"end":93.97409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.03409375000001,"end":117.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.36721875,"end":131.84159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.71534375000002,"end":162.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.27596875,"end":134.72721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.01409375,"end":165.03471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.03471875000002,"end":180.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.03659375,"end":182.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.61846875,"end":198.43034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.76784375000003,"end":206.90159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.05784375000002,"end":206.34471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.68221875,"end":211.54221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.54221875000002,"end":217.73534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.72784375,"end":213.61784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.79034375,"end":217.29659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.76909375000002,"end":223.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.63784375,"end":252.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.10534375,"end":256.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.84284375000004,"end":268.29284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.84971875,"end":275.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.81471875,"end":290.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.02784375000005,"end":290.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.06159375000004,"end":290.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.82096875,"end":291.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.02346875,"end":300.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.22471875,"end":300.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.96284375000005,"end":300.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.97971875,"end":301.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.04721875,"end":301.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.58721875000003,"end":301.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.67159375,"end":313.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.68846875,"end":303.69659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.08346875,"end":355.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.51284375,"end":318.81659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.70534375,"end":369.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.69596875,"end":362.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.28159375,"end":376.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.19596875,"end":385.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.86659375000005,"end":378.40221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.92909375000005,"end":399.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.58159375,"end":392.35784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.67846875000004,"end":405.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.41909375,"end":405.52034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.52034375000005,"end":405.55409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.72659375,"end":410.73471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.411,"end":0.591,"text":"我們請劉部長謝謝請部長"},{"start":8.155,"end":33.284,"text":"徐委員早部長早部長內政部今天對於委員所提的國家公園的修法看起來好像沒有表示什麼意見但是對於立法院三讀通過的裁劃法內政部就有很多的意見因為本席發現我們內政部的臉書指出立法院三讀通過裁劃法會大幅減少中央的裁員支出經過試算明年要"},{"start":34.184,"end":41.746,"text":"至少必須刪減約283.5億的支出就是佔總額的28%才能勉強打平請問劉部長114年度內政部的預算我們內政委員會已經完成初審了那請問內政部有被刪除283.5億元的經費嗎報告委員我剛有特別提到114年的預算在內政委員會已經完成審查送到這個財政委員會去"},{"start":62.313,"end":88.361,"text":"那所以我們要按照立法院未來在處理行政院的整體預算的進度來執行那我剛剛有跟委員有提告 提報過就是我們現在的設算就是如果按照新的財化法的話呢在內政部最大的影響量是減少28%但是這28%不是針對114年的部分但是我們用114年比較完整的部分請我們的會計單位去算出來的所以它叫一個試算"},{"start":89.301,"end":111.973,"text":"是 您在臉書的部分有特別提到就是114年的為例 用這個為例是 但是我在想啦 因為明明就已經通過了這個114年的預算喔那我覺得內政部現在用這樣子一個臉書事實上就在釋放假訊息啊所以是不是要讓我們這個在第二輪協商的時候是不是要請我們要提案3減28%才能夠這個提的"},{"start":115.175,"end":129.583,"text":"符合您這邊提出的一些說法我想這個大概是一個非常大的誤解我要再跟委員報告就是減少28%的部分不是說整個的預算量而是說未來在中央政府跟地方政府的話這個28%的話所以今年是沒有要從編的"},{"start":133.586,"end":134.646,"text":"我們按照大約的指示"},{"start":162.825,"end":173.037,"text":"了解我回去我回去來檢討一下好嗎是我覺得這個既然是不是今年度的狀況我覺得要不然就撤掉要不然就是你們再一個重新的散佈一個真實的狀況以114年度來說不會有這樣子的一個預算被刪減的一個狀況好嗎好謝謝我來檢討謝謝委員指教謝謝"},{"start":182.668,"end":196.258,"text":"那尤其在裡面還有一點就是說你這邊的連述有提到說三減涉災興建與住宅補貼等計劃如果說真的預算不足的話三減預算是不是應該以不會影響民生問題的預算為主對不對"},{"start":198.86,"end":212.725,"text":"部長請問一下如果真的預算不足我們刪減預算是不是應該以不會影響民生問題的預算為主我們不管是不是民生或是其他的預算我覺得都不應該刪減那如果真的預算不足的話是不是應該先以民生問題的這個預算要先嗎"},{"start":217.827,"end":224.33,"text":"我們按照預算科目應該編列因為我現在發覺內政部這一次在臉書上列出來刪減的都是民生必要的項目但是像是媒體宣傳這個部分就完全都不刪減請問這是要宣傳嗎因為比如說像上面有提到內政部編列的言論自由紀念活動媒體製作脫波及刊登費用二二八國家公園紀念館的展覽與營地"},{"start":244.02,"end":256.21,"text":"引因相關媒體宣導作用跟威權統治時期國家不法行為受害者權利回復相關媒體宣傳費用難道這些的宣傳都比租金補貼還要重要嗎"},{"start":259.028,"end":275.584,"text":"內政部說這個警政署反詐騙的相關技術更新跟基層執行力強化計畫因預算不足而延後推進可是卻一直持續的投入這個資金在自然憑證的推廣活動的媒體宣傳費用這不是本末導致嗎"},{"start":276.837,"end":294.446,"text":"抱歉抱歉那個跟委員報告一下我們預算都是按照科目來編列而不是說整體全部把它當成一項來編列那您剛講到就是說我們關心有關民生建設的部分那我看在你們的臉書上面所要刪減的部分全部都是跟民生有關的"},{"start":295.326,"end":313.284,"text":"反而宣傳的部分通通都沒有提到還是照樣好像就是要繼續來執行報告委員我想我們的本意一定不是這個樣子那現在剛剛說明出未來的涉算的話是地方政府要籌設的裁員可能會因為中央政府刪除掉以後地方政府要增加這些裁員他剛剛部長已經預諾就是有關你們臉書釋放的不實的言論你們會再重新來檢討他們未來怎麼來處理"},{"start":319.67,"end":335.781,"text":"我覺得還是要讓社會大眾讓民眾了解真正今年度我們的預算沒有從編也不會三減28%的預算讓大家很清楚今年的狀況才化法的增加只會讓我們的財源當地方的自主是現在只是讓我們本來屬於地方的財源還給地方"},{"start":339.904,"end":354.283,"text":"本來中央跟地方本來就是60跟40的比例現在已經變成中央75 地方25地方少了15%的財源他們這個地方的財源自主的狀況沒有辦法達到所以我們現在只是把原來屬於地方的15%"},{"start":356.845,"end":375.073,"text":"這個還給他們10%所以這樣並不會影響到中央的任何裁員那未來中央跟地方要怎麼去協調每個項目的怎麼樣來使用中央地方平均來分配我想比較理性的做法就是說我們讓中央政府跟地方政府共同來算一下財政收入劃分法裡面"},{"start":378.174,"end":396.779,"text":"來去面對這個已經三讀通過的財劃法應該是大家來去面對但是地方政府有一些是保護黨籍的地方政府有告訴我們說就算按照新的財劃法通過之後他們未來所要擔負的財源反而沒有轉轉像現在這麼好因為還有特別預算在預算這個財劃法已經三讀通過了就應該要讓財劃法正式的實施未來這些問題我們再來討論謝謝"},{"start":408.766,"end":409.735,"text":"好 谢谢徐总委员"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}