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次長什麼時候可以邀請你來跟我去這個一座只要提出時間我們全力配合好 這個其實我等一下會邀請部長"},{"start":106.138,"end":129.948,"text":"那針對部長剛剛講的有一個內容就是近五年來其實我也做了整理近五年來在國家公園有一些風災的時候其實如果在風災的期間那還是有這些登山客進入國家自然公園等等的那我們要跟包含農業部林務局等等來做這些搜救等等"},{"start":130.448,"end":158.703,"text":"其實對於國家資源的耗費也都是非常耗費那我整理了從109年到113年也是從2020到2024年每一個風災其實多少都有耗費掉一些這些災害的這些搜救的人次所以我們等一下在立法裡面也希望院板剛剛部長有明示說可以在今年提出來那希望院板也可以把這個部分也放進來"},{"start":160.543,"end":179.7,"text":"跟委員報告那麼有關於這個在颱風期間很多民眾擅自入園或者是說造成我們救援上的困難我們希望的確把它也明確入法好做一個明確的罰則因為這個涉及到國家資源的浪費我們希望能夠大家能夠遵守法令好謝謝那我們請竹江上場了請劉部長"},{"start":189.715,"end":203.432,"text":"剛剛幾位國民黨委員針對財化法之後內政部在臉書上面有說可能會影響到多少的內政部轄管的預算裡面我這樣形容"},{"start":206.083,"end":234.762,"text":"這個文字修正 如果是我要吵架來修正 是這樣修正我認為修正說 因國民黨委員要求在財化法裡面分掉3753億的預算影響到內政部 可能影響到內政部的這些相關的預算我們可能要做出下列調整但因國民黨委員要求因為事情還沒發生 所以我們必須要做以下修正但是我現在不是要吵架 所以我也不會建議這樣修正"},{"start":235.322,"end":255.537,"text":"我這樣子具體的來跟部長討論一下才化法我來講這個延續型的計畫好了就國土署的延續型計畫裡面最關民生議題的兩個議題一個是租金補貼一個是社宅興建"},{"start":257.694,"end":281.037,"text":"對高雄來講租金補貼高雄這次財化法號稱拿到245億但是是六都比例最小高雄市在去年度的租金補貼一共補貼了9萬戶也就是36億那就是245億裡面的36億要不要交給高雄市政府來處理這可以跟市政府談"},{"start":282.281,"end":303.731,"text":"但如果說這個社宅興建要跟市政府談陳其邁市長一定不要因為你變相是處罰高雄市政府積極推動社宅你要叫高雄市政府用全額來支付這個社宅我覺得這個就是確實要來討論的我舉一個對比的例子台中市拿到262億"},{"start":305.672,"end":323.611,"text":"但是他的租金補貼發了61億那這一部分要不要來大家平等六都的租金補貼全部交由六都來支付新北市拿了374億租金補貼拿了50必須要付56億這合不合理要不要拿來這裡來討論我覺得"},{"start":325.893,"end":348.689,"text":"這個才是在中央被地方被財化法修法影響下分到地方三千多億之後那市權應不應該做一個整體的調整也就是租金補貼以及這個社宅的部分要不要跟地方來做一個協調這是不是請部長"},{"start":349.414,"end":368.327,"text":"好 謝謝委員的指教我想租金補貼的部分不管中央政府跟地方政府都非常努力最主要是要減少我們的租入弱勢族群的人也就是所謂的居住正義那在110年以前它的執行模式是中央負擔75%地方負擔25%但是到112年113年到目前的114年我們都是由中央全額負擔也是負擔100%"},{"start":379.474,"end":391.086,"text":"那如果未來的財政收支劃分法要在115年做改變讓地方可以下售更多的其他財源的時候我們就會建議所謂的租金補貼回歸到110年以前的75比25"},{"start":396.411,"end":422.813,"text":"也就是現在六都裡面不管包括台北、新北、桃園、台中、高雄他們的現在的這個財力的這個規範大概是二級以上可以回歸到75比25的比例這樣子降低比較好謝謝部長這麼理性其實財劃法其實就是先把錢拿走也不管事所以這是一個非常畸形的修法雖然目前到今年度現在已經1月6號"},{"start":424.175,"end":452.358,"text":"1月6號那去年通過的財化法目前財委會沒有送到行政院過去那所以說這部法令到底什麼時候要實施我們也不知道那實施之後如果在發布之前那我們內政部是不是可以趕快來找地方來做這一些相關的研議跟討論讓社會可以接受說地方拿走這三千多億那地方要做什麼事情這樣合理那中央還可以做什麼事情合理"},{"start":452.398,"end":480.906,"text":"可能很多部會都要了這個在補貼給地方政府大概除了內政部的一些相關的生活圈道路或人行道或者是租金補貼等等以外交通部恐怕也不少所以我們很希望說能夠節償補短而不是多的越多少的越少反而造成這個貧富差距我昨天碰到馬祖縣政府的縣長他說他設算了一下他覺得說新的財政收支劃分法對他們不一定是有利"},{"start":481.406,"end":501.859,"text":"他不是多了幾十億嗎對啊但是他有說過因為裡面有包括特別統籌分配款或者是我們中央跟地方政府的比例原則再加上現在很多退休人員啊他在哪個地方退休就會領那個縣市政府的退休金那這個如果大家都把價碼拉高的話他們那個馬祖縣政府其實財力的負擔會更嚴重"},{"start":503.92,"end":510.448,"text":"是 謝謝部長 一個立法院不合理的修法讓行政部門要來補破網我覺得我們還是更積極的去處理 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:09:23.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:09:26.684000+08:00","text":"部長先休息一下，我先請董次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:09:26.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:10:20.438000+08:00","text":"今天修法的內容主要針對國家公園，我跟次長在這個會期在張召委的協助下，我們已經去柴山國家自然公園進行會勘，這個公園現在也已經好了，但是我後面還有一些相關的爭取，就是陳其邁市長也拜託我，是不是可以跟部長這邊來爭取一下，大概是這樣子，那一天我們也去走了，只不過董次長沒去，在我們會勘之後隔一個禮拜，署長有去，因為高雄市政府做了翠華路的拓寬，我們從翠華路國家自然公園的路口走上去，從最南邊走到最北邊，最北邊可以看什麼？","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:10:20.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:10:29.404000+08:00","text":"可以看到台積電（TSMC），它目前有兩個廠，第一個廠那天正在做機臺的移入。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:10:30.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:10:56.325000+08:00","text":"第二廠、第三廠，甚至現在第四廠、第五廠，今年都已經要動工了，這一條步道未來會有很多人來朝聖，所以我們希望整理這個步道，讓這個步道可以更加的……除了保存它自然的風貌以外，也可以有一個看點──在半屏山上看護國神山這一個景點。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:10:56.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:10:58.887000+08:00","text":"次長，什麼時候可以邀請你跟我去？","quality":1},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2025-01-06T10:11:01.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:11:04.212000+08:00","text":"議座只要提出時間，我們全力配合。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:11:04.392000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:11:06.313000+08:00","text":"好，其實我等一下會邀請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:11:08.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:12:00.703000+08:00","text":"針對部長剛剛講的內容其實我也做了整理，就是近五年來在風災期間還是有登山客進入國家自然公園等等，你們要跟農業部、林務局等單位來搜救等等的作業，其實對於國家資源也都是非常耗費的，我整理了從109年到113年，也是從2020到2024年的資料，每一個風災其實多少都有耗費掉一些災害搜救人力，剛剛部長有明示說院版可以在今年提出來，所以我們等一下在立法裡面，希望院版也可以把這個部分放進來。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2025-01-06T10:12:02.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:12:15.494000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，有關在颱風期間很多民眾擅自入園，或者是造成我們救援上的困難，我們的確也希望把它入法，做一個明確的罰則。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:12:15.494000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:12:16.494000+08:00","text":"好，希望內政部也提出院版。","quality":0},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2025-01-06T10:12:15.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:12:19.398000+08:00","text":"因為這個涉及到國家資源的浪費，我們希望大家能夠遵守法令。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:12:19.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:12:21.680000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝，那我們請主將上場了，請劉部長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:12:21.680000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:12:22.680000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:12:21.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:13:07.536000+08:00","text":"部長，剛剛幾位國民黨委員針對財劃法修法通過之後，內政部在臉書上面說，可能會影響到多少內政部轄管的預算，我這樣形容，這個文字修正如果是我要用吵架來修正，會這樣修正，我會修正說因國民黨委員要求，在財劃法裡面分掉3,753億的預算，可能影響到內政部的相關預算，我們可能要做出下列調整。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:13:08.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:13:21.045000+08:00","text":"因國民黨委員要求這件事情還沒發生，我們還是必須要做以下修正，但是我現在不是要吵架，所以我不會建議這樣修正，我具體的來跟部長討論一下。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:13:22.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:13:37.517000+08:00","text":"財劃法，我來講延續型的計畫好了，就是在國土署的延續型計畫裡面與民生最有關的兩個議題，一個是租金補貼，一個是社宅興建。","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:13:39.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:13:48.203000+08:00","text":"對高雄來講，高雄這次財劃法號稱拿到245億，但是是六都中比例最小的。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:13:49.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:14:22.790000+08:00","text":"高雄市在去年度的租金補貼一共補貼了9萬戶，也就是36億，就是245億裡面的36億，要不要交給高雄市政府來處理，這可以跟市政府談，但如果社宅興建要跟市政府談，陳其邁市長一定不要，因為你是變相處罰高雄市政府要積極推動社宅，你要叫高雄市政府用全額來支付社宅，我覺得這個就是確實要來討論的，我舉一個對比的例子。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:14:24.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:14:33.178000+08:00","text":"部長，臺中市拿到262億，但是它的租金補貼發了61億，這一部分要不要大家平等？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:14:33.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:14:37.322000+08:00","text":"六都的租金補貼全部交由六都來支付？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:14:38.243000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:14:45.571000+08:00","text":"新北市拿了374億，租金補貼必須要付56億，這個合不合理，要不要拿來這裡討論？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:14:45.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:15:02.543000+08:00","text":"我覺得這個才是中央和地方因為財劃法修法受到的影響，下放到地方三千多億之後，事權應不應該做一個整體的調整？","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:15:03.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:15:10.689000+08:00","text":"也就是租金補貼以及社宅的部分要不要跟地方來協調，這是不是請部長說明？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:15:11.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:16:13.704000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員的指教，我想租金補貼的部分，不管中央政府或地方政府都非常努力，最主要是要減少租屋弱勢族群的負擔，也就是所謂的居住正義，在110年以前，它的執行模式是中央負擔75%，地方負擔25%，但是112年、113年，到目前的114年，我們都是由中央全額負擔，也就是負擔100%，如果未來的財政收支劃分法要在115年做改變，讓地方可以收到更多其他財源的時候，我們就會建議租金補貼要回歸到110年以前的75比25，也就是現在六都裡面，不管是臺北、新北、桃園、臺中、高雄，他們現在財力的規範大概是二級以上，可以回歸到75比25的比例，這樣子降低比較好。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:16:14.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:16:47.412000+08:00","text":"謝謝部長這麼理性，其實財劃法的修法就是先把錢拿走，也不管事，所以這是一個非常畸形的修法，雖然今年度到現在已經1月6號，去年通過的財劃法，目前財委會沒有送到行政院，所以這部法令到底什麼時候要實施我們也不知道，實施之後，在發布之前，內政部是不是可以趕快來地方做這一些相關的研議跟討論？","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:16:47.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:16:54.338000+08:00","text":"讓社會可以接受地方拿走這三千多億，地方要做什麼事情才合理，中央還可以做什麼事情才合理。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:16:54.398000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:17:22.886000+08:00","text":"可能很多部會都要，補貼給地方政府，除了內政部一些相關的生活圈道路或人行道，或者租金補貼等等以外，交通部恐怕也不少，所以我們很希望能夠截長補短，而不是多的越多、少的越少，反而造成貧富差距更大，我昨天碰到連江縣政府的縣長，他說他設算了一下，他覺得新的財政收支劃分法對他們不一定是有利的。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:17:23.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:17:25.047000+08:00","text":"他不是多了幾十億嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:17:25.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:17:43.839000+08:00","text":"對，但是他有說過，因為裡面有包括特別統籌分配稅款，或者是中央跟地方政府的比例原則，再加上現在很多退休人員，他在哪個地方退休，就會領那個縣市政府的退休金，如果大家都把價碼拉高的話，其實他們連江縣政府的財力負擔會更重。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:17:45.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:17:47.402000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2025-01-06T10:17:47.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:17:52.448000+08:00","text":"一個立法院不合理的修法，讓行政部門要來補破網，我覺得我們還是要更積極地去處理，謝謝。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"主席（張委員宏陸）","start":"2025-01-06T10:17:52.948000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:17:54.662286+08:00","text":"好，請黃捷委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}