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書訂也有今天所有在的處長都有編啊我看你 我看預算書訂明年每年有47萬的特別費啊你們每個處長都有啊"},{"start":63.086,"end":66.997,"text":"我們是盡量不要砍可是你如果真的已經動到像你們說的要砍到民生的"},{"start":68.75,"end":97.345,"text":"報告委員您誤解我們的意思我們現在所講的財政收支劃分法是中央跟地方的財政怎麼收怎麼支怎麼劃分所以現在從中央減少的部分未來一定是會到地方政府所以我們還沒有跟地方政府了解跟完成所有的這個預算分配之前中央政府可能要設算下下一年度我們可能會損失的財源不是為了情樂全國人民"},{"start":97.725,"end":118.282,"text":"因為我們現在所要的公共建設都是要以全國人民的最大利益來考量而不是說錢不見了然後這個人民的收益就減少我想我們不是這個意思請委員不要誤解是哪些可以節省下來嘛不是節省你怎麼節省到民生影響到民生的政策呢不是節省變做地方政府要負擔的是多少"},{"start":122.225,"end":125.269,"text":"你應該先從你自己可以省的,對不對,可以省的地方嘛現在是兩個問題,不然你現在有兩個問題預算規模不一樣,我們不能等同而已你現在有兩個大問題要解決,第一個,你沒有跟上進度嘛"},{"start":139.016,"end":162.857,"text":"現在行政院的秘書長 交財政部長 租界長來 立法院都輕輕鬆鬆講沒有在明年馬上要實施嘛所以你太急了 你就潑了那個東西 這是第一個點 你趕快跟上進度因為我在5月30號的進度 跟上個禮拜行政院秘書長講的部分大概有一個禮拜之差所以我剛剛有跟很多委員講說 我們內政部裡面的官網裡面的文字的落差我們回去會去做檢討"},{"start":164.279,"end":176.771,"text":"所以第一首先檢討啦,跟上進度這是一個,第二我剛才提醒就是說你在任何減少預算的時候,你要檢討是什麼?有沒有腐爛的嘛?浪費的預算很多啊,各個部位都有啊"},{"start":177.725,"end":206.811,"text":"你像水電費就是太多了嘛今年中央政府總預算今年 欸 五年 五年才八十億水電費八十億 明年要增加到一零一啊這當然就是用得太多啊 人民也不同意啊這個去減 人民就鼓掌嘛那有些不當 鼓動議事要減包括內政部 大家出國的預算那麼多部長 我跟你講這個在整個那個草野協商的時候這個一定是統三一定會刪掉的啦所以你不要擔心錢不過要環熱劣質沒搞什麼 兩百七十幾億沒搞 我跟你講"},{"start":207.631,"end":225.296,"text":"你這會在獲益館啊報告委員您剛所提的這個不當的、糊爛的甚至有弊案的砍一砍要砍出一個三千億太容易了你不用四川那個民生了真的你要去砍民生回來砍自己從自己的特別會開始我們當然會檢討但是我也要跟委員報告水電費在公家機關來講那叫私底下給啦你有多少水府的電單多少電府的電單叫給叫給"},{"start":232.778,"end":246.731,"text":"省水省電嗎我只是跟委員報告一下說在有公務員他們一定是依法行政依照規定繳交水電費 不會多交也不能少交我還要寫啦 要寫來 柏定我來問你國土計畫法的事來來來 柏定國土計畫法現在要三讀修正了齁那怎麼樣 你不會提復議案啦不會送到道法官去解釋吧 對不對目前我也沒有嘿"},{"start":259.79,"end":275.67,"text":"不會 就是接受立法院的這個三讀修正的條文是 因為在立法院他完成三讀的程序當中我懷疑之前你態度很強硬啊沒有 報告委員我們擔任公務人員就是依法行政法律授權給我們多少我們就做多少"},{"start":275.93,"end":300.787,"text":"那現在國土計畫法已經在大院審查通過三讀通過的話我們按照三讀通過的原則跟裡面的部分來處理但是有一點就是說有關執法的部分我們雖然已經公告了16項但是因為已經有修正所以這16項要重新公告也就是說23項的執法的部分要給我們一點時間要重新公告博定你發現這邊國土計畫法修正裡面你有一部室沒有"},{"start":302.21,"end":323.733,"text":"第一個你也沒有事先好好準備好,第二個你也沒有好好溝通,你怕縣市政府跟民眾也不好好溝通然後到後來也沒有充分消除大家餘力更嚴重的,你也沒有因地制宜啊所以有四個沒有啊,啊不人家也在問一個問題啊你本來信誓旦旦馬上如期要做對不對,現在沒有如期上路你有沒有要負政治責任"},{"start":326.095,"end":347.627,"text":"我跟委員報告一下現在新的進度啦22個縣市裡面就是桃園市政府跟南投縣政府還沒有送上國土計畫的功能分區圖但是我跟張善政市長還有跟他們在地的委員溝通過之後他們告訴我在春節前會把這個桃園市的這個國土功能分區圖送上來"},{"start":348.467,"end":377.254,"text":"那南投縣長這個許縣長的部分呢我們也持續在溝通當中他所牽涉到的部分比較跟國土計劃法現行的這個處理條文比較不相干那我們幫忙他解決那也就是說在兩三個月之後我們希望22個縣市政府的國土功能分區圖都送上來那當我們根據新的國土計劃法的執法通過之後那我們再來一併公告執行也就是說我們按照"},{"start":378.054,"end":404.004,"text":"這個大院新通過的國土計劃法的相關規範包括幾個條文修正的部分呢我們都會做一個檢討來處理不是只有縣市長跟你有不同的這個意見很多民間團體或者農民有意見連民進黨的立法院跟你意見都是不一樣的如果是你現在過來你以前當過立委對不對你以前的立委劉士芳如果碰到一個這樣內政部長連跟自己的執政黨立委都溝通不良你會不會要讓他負起政治責任"},{"start":408.972,"end":412.915,"text":"因為我現在是當一個行政官員所以我並不願意回答如果的問題但是我跟委員報告我們在這過程的討論當中國土計畫法牽涉最多是農業還有農會"},{"start":429.184,"end":442.957,"text":"那這個部分呢農業部幫忙我們非常多所以這一次呢有若干委員所提出跟所謂的農業權或是農地發展權相關的部分在最後一刻的時候呢就沒有把它放到我們國土計畫法裡面"},{"start":444.378,"end":455.926,"text":"因為我們認為國土計劃法應該是市農工商各種包括都市計劃都可以放進去那我們也很謝謝包括很多委員都支持我們提出一個鄉村整體規劃法這個部分對於偏鄉地區的都市計劃來講是一個正向的發展"},{"start":461.69,"end":485.155,"text":"所以一來一往當中呢其實也是可以局限出來說在2015年通過的國土計畫法經過10年之後它確實有需要檢討跟改善的空間那所以站在我們立場我們就根據新的國土計畫法三讀通過之後做執法的修正然後再繼續跟地方政府來溝通其實全民在看你的就是你有沒有去傾聽民意啦"},{"start":486.275,"end":506.418,"text":"要不要做好溝通啦 搞不好就是沒有 我跟你說的不是自己管理政府的意見 農民有意見連你的民進黨立委都有意見現在是兩個問題 第一個你要不要負政治責任 這是一個第二個 現在爭取到展年六年對不對你這六年你就好好去傾聽把事情規劃好 你剛才所謂的一步是沒有"},{"start":507.299,"end":522.788,"text":"你這四個沒有 你在未來這個六年謝謝委員的指正 我們會來檢討因為剩下一點點時間 我直接就不用回答太魯閣的那個有一個峽谷的馬拉松今年就停辦了嘛我請那個"},{"start":524.77,"end":547.639,"text":"不可能辦嘛那他們希望明年辦這個太魯閣這邊要怎麼去幫忙一定要注意到安全當然這是一個國際的盛事啦很多人都希望可以參加可是一定要注意安全好不好另外第一件 陽明山有那個象天蝦那個有沒有那個湖啊每次下雨就很多人去那邊我的好朋友啊包括謝金河之前都說他進去那個湖過嘛"},{"start":548.649,"end":575.728,"text":"那個怎麼避免再進去,我看你們說要開罰嘛醫療那個地方的安全,避免大家去破壞這個生態,這個一定要做到另外一個,大家很注意,大家記得晴天剛都有看到那個野生的水牛對不對你們之前有提說要那個野生水牛每次下雨就衝下來把那個農田都採壞了對不對甚至有民眾發生危險啊你們之前有提說要去做什麼庇護的措施,到現在沒做耶這什麼"},{"start":578.695,"end":592.626,"text":"好啦剛剛我也已經說你們書面在回答他啦好不好不好意思因為我們我已經給你很多時間了因為現在很多民眾大家喜歡去看那些野生的水牛可是一碰到下雨那個真的老實講真的是危險的你是要給那個屁股手嘛好不好好給我給我個書面來"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:49:20.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:49:20.822000+08:00","text":"請部長跟署長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-06T10:49:20.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:49:20.902000+08:00","text":"請部長跟署長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:49:20.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:49:20.922000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:49:20.922000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:49:21.922000+08:00","text":"部長早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:49:21.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:49:23.463000+08:00","text":"剛才很多委員都在問財政收支劃分法通過以後，你們在臉書上的po文，他們說那是恐嚇還是情勒，其實我覺得最重要的是什麼，就是有沒有苦民所苦啦！","quality":0.698},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:49:48.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:49:59.754000+08:00","text":"部長，你們說要減少民生政策的錢兩百八十幾億，其實你如果真的要砍人民的錢，影響到民生，回過頭應該要先檢討自己啊！","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:50:00.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:50:02.455000+08:00","text":"要不要先從部長的特別費開始？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:50:02.455000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:50:03.455000+08:00","text":"報告委員……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:50:02.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:50:07.776000+08:00","text":"特別費部長有嘛，署長也有，今天所有在的處長都有編啊！","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:50:08.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:50:14.037000+08:00","text":"我看預算書上面，你明年有47萬的特別費，你們每個處長都有啊！","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:50:15.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:50:18.977000+08:00","text":"我們是儘量不要砍，可是若真的已經動到，像你們說的要砍到民生的，那當然要從自己的先處理。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:50:20.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:50:49.325000+08:00","text":"報告委員，您誤解我們的意思，我們現在所講的財政收支劃分法，是中央跟地方的財政怎麼收、怎麼支、怎麼劃分，所以現在從中央減少的部分，未來一定是會到地方政府，在我們還沒有跟地方政府了解跟完成所有的預算分配之前，中央政府可能要設算下下一年度我們可能會損失的財源，不是為了情勒全國人民。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:50:49.325000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:50:50.325000+08:00","text":"所以，部長……","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:50:49.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:51:04.457000+08:00","text":"因為我們現在所要的公共建設都是要以全國人民的最大利益來考量，而不是說，錢不見了，然後人民的收益就減少，我想我們不是這個意思，請委員不要誤解。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:51:04.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:51:06.359000+08:00","text":"部長，所謂的試算應該是說哪些可以節省下來嘛！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:51:06.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:51:06.739000+08:00","text":"不是節省……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:51:07.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:51:08.861000+08:00","text":"不是說節省到民生、影響到民生的政策啦！","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:51:09.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:51:10.262000+08:00","text":"不是節省，變成地方政府要負擔的是多少……對啦！","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:51:10.262000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:51:11.583000+08:00","text":"我知道啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:51:11.583000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:51:12.904000+08:00","text":"我知道你在試算。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:51:12.904000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:51:14.225000+08:00","text":"就是說中央減少，變成是地方政府增加……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:51:14.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:51:15.326000+08:00","text":"就是說你應該先從你自己可以省、可以減的地方嘛，對不對？","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:51:15.347000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:51:15.707000+08:00","text":"現在是兩個問題，部長，現在你有兩個問題……","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:51:15.707000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:51:16.067000+08:00","text":"預算科目不一樣，我們不能等同而語……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:51:16.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:51:17.249000+08:00","text":"部長，現在有兩個大問題要解決，第一個，你沒有跟上進度嘛！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:51:31.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:51:38.263000+08:00","text":"行政院秘書長和財政部長、主計長來立法院都清清楚楚地說，沒有在明年馬上要實施嘛！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:51:39.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:51:42.146000+08:00","text":"所以你太急了，你去po了那個東西，這是第一點，你要趕快跟上進度。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:51:42.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:51:54.857000+08:00","text":"因為我們在12月30號的進度跟上個禮拜行政院秘書長講的部分，大概有一個禮拜之差，所以我剛剛有跟很多委員說，我們內政部官網裡面文字的落差，我們回去會檢討。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:51:56.279000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:51:57.500000+08:00","text":"所以，第一個，趕快檢討啦！","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:51:57.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:51:59.022000+08:00","text":"跟上進度，這是一個。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:51:59.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:52:04.627000+08:00","text":"第二，我剛才在提醒的就是，你在任何減少預算的時候，應該要檢討的是什麼？","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:52:04.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:52:05.468000+08:00","text":"有沒有浮濫的？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:52:06.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:52:07.871000+08:00","text":"浪費的預算很多啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:52:08.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:52:08.751000+08:00","text":"各個部會都有啊！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:52:09.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:52:11.125000+08:00","text":"像水電費就是太多了嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:52:11.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:52:20.367000+08:00","text":"今年的中央政府總預算，去年花了80億的水電費，明年要增加到101億，這當然是用得太多啊！","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:52:20.547000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:52:21.127000+08:00","text":"人民也不同意啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:52:21.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:52:22.848000+08:00","text":"這個去減，人民就鼓掌嘛……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:52:22.848000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:52:25.668000+08:00","text":"報告委員，水電費通常……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:52:25.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:52:40.391000+08:00","text":"包括內政部，大家出國的預算那麼多，部長，我跟你講，這個在朝野協商的時候一定是統刪，一定會刪掉的，所以你不要擔心錢不夠，你不用擔心你的錢不夠，什麼兩百七十幾億不夠，我跟你講，你做過立法委員啊，對不對？","quality":0.724},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:52:41.392000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:52:43.052000+08:00","text":"報告委員，您剛所提的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:52:43.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:52:47.673000+08:00","text":"不當的、浮濫的，甚至有弊案的砍一砍，要砍出一個3,000億太容易了！","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:52:47.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:52:52.535000+08:00","text":"你不用試算那個民生的，如果真的要去砍民生，就回來砍自己，從自己的特別費開始。","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:52:52.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:52:56.236000+08:00","text":"我們當然會檢討，但是我也要跟委員報告，水電費在公家機關來講那叫「死豬仔價」啦！","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:52:56.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:52:57.096000+08:00","text":"有多少水費、多少電費，都是照算的。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:52:57.096000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:53:04.778000+08:00","text":"你不是一直在說要省電、要節水嗎？","quality":0.071},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:53:04.778000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:53:06.480000+08:00","text":"要省水、省電嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:53:06.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:53:07.801000+08:00","text":"不是，這是全體的問題，我只是跟委員報告一下……","quality":0.526},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:53:07.801000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:53:08.801000+08:00","text":"怎麼是「死豬仔價」？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:53:08.801000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:53:09.801000+08:00","text":"你好好省電的話，就可以減少啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:53:09.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:53:15.008000+08:00","text":"公務員的話，他們一定是依法行政，依照規定繳交水電費，不會多交、也不能少交。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:53:15.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:53:15.608000+08:00","text":"還是要省啦！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:53:16.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:53:17.790000+08:00","text":"部長，我來問你國土計畫法的事情，國土計畫法現在要三讀修正了，怎麼樣？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:53:17.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:53:18.471000+08:00","text":"你不會提覆議案、不會送到大法官去解釋，對不對？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:53:18.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:53:32.231000+08:00","text":"目前沒有。不會？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:53:32.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:53:34.934000+08:00","text":"就是接受立法院的三讀條文？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:53:35.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:53:37.938000+08:00","text":"是，因為在立法院完成三讀程序當中……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:53:37.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:53:39.259000+08:00","text":"我看你之前態度很強硬啊！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:53:39.259000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:53:40.259000+08:00","text":"不會喔？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:53:40.259000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:53:41.259000+08:00","text":"不會提覆議案？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:53:40.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:53:55.735000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們擔任公務人員就是依法行政，法律授權給我們多少，我們就做多少，現在國土計畫法已經在大院審查通過、三讀通過的話，我們按照三讀通過的原則跟裡面的部分來處理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:53:56.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:54:08.584000+08:00","text":"但是有一點就是，有關子法的部分，我們雖然已經公告了16項，但是因為已經有修正，所以這16項要重新公告，也就是說23項子法的部分，要給我們一點時間，要重新公告。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:54:10.445000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:54:12.767000+08:00","text":"部長，你發現這次國土計畫法的修正裡面，你有「一不四沒有」。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:54:14.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:54:27.404000+08:00","text":"第一個，你沒有事先準備好；第二個，你沒有好好溝通，你跟縣市政府、跟民眾也不好好溝通，到後來也沒有充分去消除大家疑慮；更嚴重的，你也沒有因地制宜啊！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:54:27.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:54:28.725000+08:00","text":"所以有四個沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:54:29.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:54:33.490000+08:00","text":"至於「一不」，人家也在問一個問題，你本來信誓旦旦馬上如期要做，對不對？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:54:33.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:54:35.713000+08:00","text":"現在沒有如期上路，你有沒有要負政治責任？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:54:38.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:54:59.627000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告一下現在新的進度，22個縣市裡面，就是桃園市政府跟南投縣政府還沒有送上國土計畫的功能分區圖，但是我跟張善政市長，還有在地委員溝通過之後，他們告訴我，在春節前會把桃園市的國土功能分區圖送上來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:55:00.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:55:13.610000+08:00","text":"南投縣許縣長的部分，我們也持續在溝通當中，他所牽涉到的部分跟國土計畫法現行的處理條文比較不相干，我們幫忙他解決。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:55:13.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:55:36.217000+08:00","text":"也就是說，在兩、三個月之後，我們希望22個縣市政府的國土功能分區圖都送上來，當新的國土計畫法子法通過之後，我們再來一併公告執行；也就是說，我們按照大院新通過的國土計畫法相關規範，包括幾個條文修正的部分，我們都會做一個檢討來處理。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:55:36.217000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:55:37.217000+08:00","text":"你有發現一個重要的問題嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:55:36.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:55:47.021000+08:00","text":"不是只有一些縣市長跟你有不同的意見，很多民間團體或者農民也有意見，連民進黨的立法委員跟你的意見都是不一樣的。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:55:49.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:55:51.062000+08:00","text":"你以前當過立委，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:55:51.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:55:55.984000+08:00","text":"以前的立委劉世芳如果碰到一個這樣的內政部長，連跟自己的執政黨立委都溝通不良，你會不會要他負起政治責任？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:55:55.984000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:56:00.972000+08:00","text":"你沒有發現你連跟民進黨立委對這個國土計畫法的溝通都不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:56:00.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:56:47.906000+08:00","text":"因為我現在是當一個行政官員，所以我並不願意回答如果的問題，但是我跟委員報告，我們在這個過程的討論當中，國土計畫法牽涉最多的是農業和農會，這個部分農業部幫忙我們非常多，所以這一次有若干委員所提出跟農業權或是農地發展權相關的部分，在最後一刻的時候就沒有把它放到國土計畫法裡面，因為我們認為國土計畫法應該是士、農、工、商各種，包括都市計畫都可以放進去，我們也很謝謝，包括很多委員都支持我們提出一個鄉村整體規劃法，這個部分對於偏鄉地區的都市計畫來講，是一個正向的發展。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:56:53.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:57:14.054000+08:00","text":"所以一來一往當中，其實也是可以侷限出來，在2015年通過的國土計畫法，經過10年之後，它確實有需要檢討跟改善的空間，所以站在我們的立場，我們就根據新的國土計畫法三讀通過之後做子法的修正，然後再繼續跟地方政府來溝通。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:57:14.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:57:20.097000+08:00","text":"部長，其實全民在看你的就是你有沒有去傾聽民意、有沒有做好溝通，到目前就是沒有！","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:57:20.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:57:26.364000+08:00","text":"我跟你說的不是只有縣市政府有意見，農民也有意見，連你的民進黨立委都有意見。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:57:26.364000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:57:27.364000+08:00","text":"我們有多做溝通。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:57:26.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:57:29.007000+08:00","text":"現在是兩個問題，第一個你要不要負政治責任？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:57:29.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:57:29.748000+08:00","text":"這是一個。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:57:29.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:57:31.070000+08:00","text":"第二個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:57:31.070000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:57:32.070000+08:00","text":"請問一下……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:57:31.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:57:33.473000+08:00","text":"你現在爭取到展延6年，對不對？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:57:33.773000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:57:40.800000+08:00","text":"這6年你就要好好去傾聽，把事情規劃好，剛才所謂的一不四沒有，你這四個沒有在未來6年，你要好好去……","quality":0.805},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-01-06T10:57:41.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:57:43.161000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的指正，我們會來檢討。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:57:43.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:57:46.944000+08:00","text":"因為剩下一點點時間，就不用回答。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:57:48.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:57:54.768000+08:00","text":"太魯閣峽谷馬拉松今年就停辦了，我請……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理署長貞蓉","start":"2025-01-06T10:57:54.768000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:57:56.770000+08:00","text":"不可能辦。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:57:56.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:57:57.190000+08:00","text":"不可能辦嘛！對。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:57:57.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:58:00.231000+08:00","text":"他們希望明年辦，對太魯閣這邊，要怎麼去幫忙？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:58:00.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:58:01.432000+08:00","text":"一定要注意到安全！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:58:02.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:58:07.334000+08:00","text":"當然這是一個國際盛事，很多人都希望可以參加，可是一定要注意安全，好不好？對。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:58:07.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:58:28.715000+08:00","text":"另外，第二個，陽明山向天蝦那個湖，每次下雨就有很多人會去那邊，包括我的好朋友，謝金河之前都說他進去過那個湖，那個要怎麼避免再讓人進去，我看你們說要開罰，以後那個地方的安全，還有避免大家去破壞生態，這個一定要做到。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:58:28.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:58:35.099000+08:00","text":"另外，大家要很注意，大家去擎天崗都有看到野生的水牛，對不對？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:58:35.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:58:41.503000+08:00","text":"你們之前有提到，野生水牛每次下雨就衝下來把農田都踩壞了，對不對？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:58:41.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:58:42.764000+08:00","text":"甚至有民眾發生危險！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:58:43.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:58:46.567000+08:00","text":"你們之前有提到要做好庇護措施，到現在也沒做。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"陳代理署長貞蓉","start":"2025-01-06T10:58:50.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:58:50.775000+08:00","text":"已經做了。好啦！","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-06T10:58:51.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:58:54.198000+08:00","text":"剛剛委員已經說你們用書面再回答他，好不好？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-06T10:58:54.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:58:56.880000+08:00","text":"不好意思，我已經給你很多時間了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:58:57.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:59:03.485000+08:00","text":"好，給我書面，因為現在很多民眾喜歡去看那些野生的水牛，可是一碰到下雨，老實講，那個真的危險，你們要給牠們一個庇護所嘛！","quality":0.712},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:59:03.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:59:04.305000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-01-06T10:59:04.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-01-06T10:59:04.606000+08:00","text":"給我一個書面，好，謝謝。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-06T10:59:05.106000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:59:08.820286+08:00","text":"鍾佳濱、鍾佳濱、鍾佳濱委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-06T10:59:09.120286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:59:12.834571+08:00","text":"黃建賓、黃建賓、黃建賓委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-01-06T10:59:13.134571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-01-06T10:59:14.848857+08:00","text":"請黃國昌委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}